What challenges await Mekies at Red Bull? Momentum with Lando or Oscar? – 2025 Half-Season Review with Jolyon Palmer + Lawrence Barretto

29:30Jolyon Palmer:title battle between the two so i was looking through this and actually max could so easily still be in this title fight as well but those recent races have really put him put him out if you think of the points that he's lost through kind of a bit of bad luck really you've got a whack in Austria as well as an unlucky qualifying that's cost him 15 points the safety car in Barcelona and then you know his subsequent red mist but without the safety car he's an easy third and then you've got the rain falling that wasn't forecast at Silverstone when he had done the hard work to put a low downforce red bull on pole if those hadn't have happened that's 44 more points for Max and he'd be within a race win still or on a race win of the McLarens so he's he's I feel like he's been quite unlucky in the recent races to be as far adrift as he is.

30:19Jolyon Palmer:But it does mean that McLarens are in a straight fight now, surely. And I think, for me, the China race, where Oscar managed to get on top of Lando, and we started to see Lando's braking issues and struggling to connect with the car, that was quite a big one because it got Oscar the momentum earlier on in the season to start to apply the pressure and undo the damage of Melbourne. and then you've also got Austria where Lando managed to recover from Canada and in a straight fight they didn't have contact in fact it was almost Oscar that was nearly causing the contact and had to be told to calm it down they're kind of to me two two big moments do you think it'll go down to the wire to the last race in Abu Dhabi I don't see why not yeah look we've got a hope haven't we we've got 11 more races for them to be this close but I the thing is that it's just ebbing and flowing that there's you there's no guarantee who's going to be ahead of them in the next race and that goes kind of for any race at the moment so hopefully it keeps nodging one way or the other and we get a showdown it'll be so nice to get a showdown oh bring it on what about Ferrari then after finishing 14 points behind McLaren at the end of last year they're now 238 points adrift of them.

31:34Lewis Hamilton won the sprint race in China and Charles Leclerc has had four podiums but they haven't won a Grand Prix this year and team principal Fred Vasseur has come under pressure in the Italian media. Let's start with Lewis. Your thoughts on his first 12 races in red?

31:52Lawrence Barretto:For me in the TV pen it's been a reasonably bleak experience interviewing Lewis because he's been so down, I think, this year. I think he'd come in with so much optimism, obviously had that great weekend in China, well, great sprint day in China. And then it just hasn't really worked for him. And there's been a couple of things that have been repetitive. You know, he's talking about the brakes and just how he can't get comfortable with the brakes and he's never experienced this before in his career. And there have been a couple of things where he just hasn't felt that comfortable. And then maybe I'd say in the last two races, austrian here since ferrari've bought this floor upgrade that's significant um tweak to the floor and to the diffuser there's been a little bit of a change in body language i think from lewis look he's still nowhere near where he wants to be in terms of ultimate competitiveness but it's felt like he's been able to have a a more consistent car one thing he's often said to me is that he comes to a race weekend he doesn't know what car he's going to get you know doesn't know how that weekend's going to unfold and we haven't really had that kind of um chat or that language used in the last couple of races look it's a sample of two but I think really the first 10 races were quite difficult and frustrating and irritating for Lewis and maybe maybe the last two races have been something of a corner turn for him yeah I you have to say it's been you know it's

33:12Jolyon Palmer:been disappointing let's be honest this is a Lewis Hamilton with Ferrari the match-up that we were all hoping was going to be a chance for a title bid and he's he's doesn't seem like he's anywhere near his best right now and and in harmony with the car i agree i thought silverstone was actually looked like it was going to be the best of lewis again until he didn't quite nail that final qualifying lap but it was the it was the best i've seen from him this year maybe since the you know the china sprint as a one-off earlier on um he looked like every lap he was quick that was the good thing for Hamilton in Silverstone.

33:48Jolyon Palmer:It was not just a stint here, a lap there. It was every lap in practice and in qualifying that he was a little bit ahead of Charles mostly, and Ferrari would bang on the pace. Obviously, the execution then was a bit disappointing. Hopefully, as you say, Lawrence, it's just showing that he is getting more comfortable with the car, and these upgrades are getting him a little bit more suited to it. Austria was better, but this is Lewis Hamilton guys he's not signed to be a decent number two to Charles Leclerc either this was a big money signing to get Ferrari back on the top step and they are miles away from it in in the big picture here obviously McLaren have got a great car but Lewis hasn't been on the podium in a Grand Prix conditions yet so hopefully the trajectory is good but you can't say that this has been anything but disappointing at the moment you say disappointing but do you think he's driven a better season to date than he did last year at Mercedes?

34:45Jolyon Palmer:It's difficult to tell isn't it because I think I personally think he's it's probably been a little bit harder for him this year than last year he'd already had the the British Grand Prix win didn't he and he was about to get the Belgian Grand Prix win as well and at least the race pace last year looked like it was better even if he was being out qualified by George but then he was much more happy and confident with Mercedes still he was still working with Bono and all of these teething issues that he has at Ferrari he was not about to be having you know in his in his 11th year with Mercedes so it's a difficult comparison but the other thing is the teammates different as well and I George is having a brilliant season once again this year showing how good he is but I also think Charles is really really exceptional driver at Ferrari so you know when when we knew he was going to be teammates with Leclerc you never thought it was going to be a walk in the park for even a Hamilton end of 2023 having a really great season you still thought that's going to be a close matchup and it's just for the first half it's been it's been tough going for him.

35:49Is there a light at the end of the tunnel there's talk of the suspension upgrade coming at Spa?

35:53Lawrence Barretto:I think there is I think there is a light it finally feels like Ferrari potentially on the right pathway I think there is some regret internally that they took so much of a different pathway with the car they changed so much of it over the winter I think you know it's always a risk and that risk can go one of two ways that can really pay off and you can make that big step or you could make it take a step back and that's obviously what's happened this year they were on the precipice when they have well they were fighting for the constructors championship on the precipice of actually winning the constructors championship so i think there is some real frustration that the car that they've gone to when they've taken the risk and they've tried something different hasn't worked out this year so i think for them to bring that upgrade um a couple of races ago and for it to have worked and for both drivers to feel a little bit more comfortable with the car is a good thing obviously all of the teams have either turned off or are about to turn off the taps on development for this year because 2026 they can't afford a slow start there so how much better this year it can be is an unknown and it's unlikely that they're going to make a big step but I think for Lewis probably what he's found is that it's taken more of an adjustment to fit into his new team I think he probably felt like he had the experience to do so and he's he's met a Ferrari team where everything is just so different in the way that when you talk to Carlos Sainz it's so different moving from Ferrari to Williams there is just so much to learn and so much to kind of train your brain again to do that actually maybe he just needs the second half of the season to focus on getting all of that right I know this isn't the Lewis Hamilton and that we want to see and this isn't what Lewis was expecting.

37:28Lawrence Barretto:But I think the reality is he probably just needs to bed in for the rest of this year so that he can hit the ground running providing Ferrari deliver a good car next year. Do you think they can win a race? Yeah.

37:40Jolyon Palmer:They'll win a race before the end of the year, I think. Where? I think it was Singapore. They should have a good chance when you look at the performance that they had in Monaco. Even Monza, you know, they're always competitive at Monza. That would be the fairy tale story for either driver, but obviously Hamilton, who's not won there in Ferrari colours before. They've had chances this year. Monaco, Leclerc, he was on provisional pole, and then the McLarens did that second run, which got him. But on a light-for-light, one set of tyres, one lap, he was ahead. And Canada, again, Leclerc crashed on Friday, did no laps, and still was halfway through his final lap, looking like he was going to be challenging for pole, at least the front row.

38:23Jolyon Palmer:and then Silverstone, both of them could have put it on the front row at the very least. I think they could have had pole. Certainly Hamilton lost a chunk of time in the final couple of corners. I was down in Park Fermi ready to interview. I was watching the times come in. I thought this is going to be the Hamilton pole at Silverstone because he was absolutely nailing it through 15 of the 18 corners. But then you could just see him get a little bit wide coming into the breaking zone for club and lost it. But the potential is definitely there. I would be amazed if they don't get a win this year.

38:55You've just listed a whole bunch of tracks, different speeds, different types of corners. So you singled out Singapore, but maybe we don't have to wait that long. I mean, what about Hungary, where Hamilton has always been brilliant around there?

39:09Jolyon Palmer:Yeah, I still wouldn't have thought Hungary would necessarily be the best track. But like you say, you know, the form guard is, we're talking tiny amounts, separating the best of the four teams. So it could be anywhere. Still, I think the theory was, you know, the lower speed, shorter corners were better for Ferrari. But then that is the exact opposite of Silverstone, where I wasn't expecting them to be quick and they could have had a front row lockout. So it shows the form guide this year could throw anything up. This episode is sponsored by IM8. Looking after yourself doesn't necessarily have to mean adding more and more things to your day.

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41:12Since its first Formula One victory in the 1965 Mexico Grand Prix, Honda has always taken what's learned on the track and used it to build better cars for everyone. From pushing limits in F1 to engineering the next generation of hybrids like the Prelude Hybrid and Civic Sedan Hybrid, Honda proves that racing doesn't just inspire innovation, it drives it. And that idea of taking lessons from the racetrack and applying them to road cars has always been a part of Honda's DNA. Decades of engineering in the demanding world of Formula One have helped shape the performance and efficiency you see in Honda's road cars today.

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42:59Mercedes have had a mixed season as well. George Russell has been on the podium four times and converted Poland to victory at the Canadian Grand Prix. Kimi Antonelli has shown glimpses of why Toto Wolff put faith in him at such a young age, taking a sensational sprint pole in Miami and securing his first F1 podium in Montreal. But like Ferrari, Mirka way off the pace of McLaren. So guys, what's your assessment of their season so far?

43:29Lawrence Barretto:It appears they've dropped off a bit. I think they'll frankly just be irritated that this is another season where how hot it is will determine and how good a weekend that they're going to have you know ever since these new regulations uh were introduced mercedes just haven't been on top of the aero side and on the top of the chassis side and i think that is probably a greater worry for them given there's another change to the regulations next year and i think even george has said in the media that there is no guarantee that even if they are making progress and they're understanding of it that they are going to get it right next year And then can you imagine the pain that they would be in if they don't and they don't understand why they can't get their car to work when the temperatures start to rise?

44:12Lawrence Barretto:I think that given all of that, they've had a pretty decent year. George had a really strong start to the year. I think he's outperformed that car. I think that Kimi has shown the talent in certain races. You mentioned Miami where it shows what he is capable of doing. but I think ultimately they thought they were going to make a step on this year and they haven't so when all said and done they'll just frankly see this as a massive disappointment and I think it will be a worry that they've fallen even further back it doesn't really matter that they're you know much of a muchness with Ferrari and Red Bull it is that gap and that significant gap to McLaren who they obviously supply power units to which will be incredibly irritating it's kind of

44:55Jolyon Palmer:fascinating isn't it because if you took McLaren out of this we'd probably have really different debriefs on everyone else because Ferrari would be then at the top they're second in the constructors and yet we're saying it's been incredibly disappointing Mercedes would have been right up there and won more than the one race but just McLaren have done such a good job with the car and the two drivers are generally clear of the field that it's making everyone else look pretty ordinary I know Max would then be having a pretty another sail away season but trying to match up to what McLaren have done with the car is obviously a very difficult task for everyone in the field you know the sentiment's the same I think Mercedes they haven't made any significant progress from from where they were one win on a circuit they were really good at last year in Canada is you know the same thing you know they're good on on a certain day in cooler temperatures on a track that suits them but they don't have the consistency at all I think George Russell's probably having the season of his career at the moment I think he's driving really well to do a good job in that car but he doesn't have the machinery to fight with the with the rest on the regular you feel he's really stepped up into that team leader role yeah I think it's just the consistency of his performance and dragging things out of it when it looks like the sort of hope is lost even if you take Silverstone again they this is one that sort of goes against the cooler temperatures because it was chilly at Silverstone throughout the whole weekend and I thought you know like last year they had a front row lockout if the temperature is simply a form guide for Mercedes they should have been right at the front again at Silverstone but they were having a difficult weekend but Russell did manage to execute a really great Q3 lap and put it almost on the on the top three from from nowhere and got himself ahead of the Ferraris they didn't have the pace to be ahead of the Ferraris but George did a did a good individual lap to put him there and We saw it last year.

46:48Jolyon Palmer:The gap from Russell to Hamilton was pretty impressive. But now Hamilton's not there. We're seeing him just kind of relentlessly being ahead of Antonelli, showing him the way and trying to fight with the others. It was a wasted opportunity, Silverstone, wasn't it? In that, I don't know, what were you guys thinking as Russell pitted at the start of the race? I thought he was going to win the race. You thought it was the right call? Yeah, I did. I was watching it on commentary with DC, and we'd been down on the grid, and it started off drying. Then it rained as we were on the grid, and then it was drying, and it looked like it was drying quite quickly again.

47:28Jolyon Palmer:So we both got up to the commentary box, and we were chatting off air before the formation lap, and we were saying, is someone going to do it? And when you then saw the cars on the formation lap, it looked really, really dry all the way through until Stowe. and I mean there was a dry line the sun was was peeking out and you just thought this could be that Budapest race where everyone dives in Budapest 21 and Hamilton's the only one left on the grid so when Russell and Leclerc pitted at the time I thought that's it's a gamble but it's a gamble I would have taken uh and obviously I would have been wrong to take it as well but um I think there was a few things that went I think the the number of safety cars in that first stint didn't help them it was VSC so it didn't bunch the pack up and it just meant they couldn't get the slick tires working and others then had cheaper pit stops like your Antonelli and your strolls to come out ahead so it we didn't see it play out in a sort of fair battle but I still think it was it was obviously

48:29Lawrence Barretto:not the right call and I think the fact that he took that risk kind of shows the bind that the team are in at the minute that you know obviously if the performance were there George wouldn't have had to take that kind of risk at the minute but it was kind of a roll of the dice situation in the same way that Charles kind of chose to roll the dice as well. Could have turned out to be a hero. But in the end, he didn't. But also, it shows how confident he is in his position at the team, that he's prepared to roll the dice like that. I think you only do that if you're very confident.

48:57Jolyon Palmer:Yeah, but this is a guy that's overruled the team in Belgium last year to deliver one of the best strategic driver calls and take the flag first. Okay, he was desperately unlucky and got the DQ, but George is a smart driver he's always thinking about how he can get something more out of it from the strategy point of view and even in Brazil last year was leading and was really peeved that he listened to the team to take the pit stop before the red flag that would have won in the race so he's a smart driver and I just think with Mercedes and Ferrari if they had have got it right they would have been at the front and they've any of those teams on that day had the pace to win so it's just about trying to get yourself to the front and from starting fourth behind the two McLarens and and Max as well you're just thinking this is a tough one whereas if you get the call right and you're at the front then Russell's the winner or Leclerc's the winner if Russell doesn't pit and we're all saying it's genius and it was it must have been a marginal call for the amount of drivers that are feeling the grip on the on the formation lap to come in and take it and it would appear wouldn't it that that all the contractual situation for him you know not having a deal for 2026 um it doesn't seem to be affecting his performance in the car which i find extraordinary

50:16Lawrence Barretto:and a huge compliment to him i think it's actually galvanized him really i think he's really really taken something from it i think during his time with lewis i don't think he felt he got the plaudits for the kind of performance he put in there i think he's leveled up this year and i think you know lots of people rate Kimi Antonelli highly and he has done exactly what he needed to do he stepped up into the team leader role to Jolian's point he's really continued to lead from the cockpit as well when he's trying to to command a race as well making decisions then and I think if anything it's making him come out as a stronger driver and yeah okay it's annoying that they haven't put pen to paper yet for on his Mercedes deal potentially because Max is available but George will know that he's in a still a pretty good spot right because if Max goes to Mercedes there's going to be a spot at Red Bull I know there aren't a great deal of other options elsewhere but I think George has done enough and he backs himself critically and he believes in himself that I think he feels like whatever happens he's going to be okay as long as he keeps driving and doing the job on track now when it comes to the midfield Williams are winning the battle at the moment having been comfortable in P5 for most of the season.

51:24But a dip in form has coincided with Sauber scoring more points than Red Bull in the last four races, capped off with Nico Hülkenberg's amazing first F1 podium at Silverstone last time out. They're up to P6, just 18 points adrift of Williams now. I mean, Jolien, let's start with you and get your thoughts on your former teammate's first podium.

51:48Jolyon Palmer:Outstanding, wasn't it? And it was just great to see because all of the stories, you don't want Nico Hülkenberg to end up retiring from Formula 1 without a podium. He's just too talented for that. So it was about time, 239 races. But I thought it was the best of Hulk, to be honest. It wasn't a mass overtaking, carving his way through, but it was a really methodical drive. he had used his experience to have the right pickles he didn't take my formation lap pit stop which was right but then he did take the the new set of inters at the first chance which was the genius and um and it propelled him up and from there you know he's he's just a consummate pro that's driving at a high level he's really fast he doesn't make mistakes and that's what we saw he passed stroll and held off hamilton in a ferrari which is which is a great effort so great job and I'm actually really pleased for the Sauber team as well.

52:48Jolyon Palmer:Their reaction for the podium was what you want to see underneath the podium wasn't it? Some chanting, team absolutely loving life and they deserve to because they've obviously produced a car now with upgrades that's capable of getting points with both drivers. And Lawrence how much more can Sauber achieve this year? Are they a genuine threat to Williams's P5?

53:08Lawrence Barretto:I mean if we were talking about this three races ago we would have said that williams had probably near enough nailed p5 in in the constructor championship just because of such not just their strong start but the ruthless consistency i think they had four races where they had both cars in the points you know in a way that other teams weren't able to other midfield teams weren't able to match but yeah absolutely i think sauber have got the momentum and that stat is extraordinary that you know they've scored more points than red bull in the last few races that is extraordinary um i think the way that jonathan wheatley and matthia benotto So everyone in the team has really galvanized them.

53:42Lawrence Barretto:I think there's some real momentum and belief there again. I think that team have gone through some real tough times in the last decade, really. And they've not put any less work in than everyone else on the grid. It's just the performance hasn't come. So I think when you get that kind of success, you do see results. You know, everyone works a little bit harder. Things tend to go in your way. You tend to build that momentum. and I think Sauber are a real genuine contender now because they always said that even though Audi are coming in next year they never wanted to write last year and this year off you know it was important for them to perform well on track and so I think this is this is proof of that it's proof of some of the changes that Mattia Bonotto has put in back at the factory Jonathan Wheatley was very nice and humble in saying that really none of this is to do with him because he only came in three months ago but I think that it is it's a lot of fruit of the work that's been put in behind the scenes and we're seeing Nico Hülkenberg living his best life and I think when you've got Nico on sung like this and it's been the case throughout his career he can generate incredible consistency and I think now that he's got a card that is giving him the opportunity to to score points for that consistency there's absolutely no reason why we couldn't continue

54:56Jolyon Palmer:like this so a stat that i quite like on this hulkenberg has scored points on five races from 12 so nearly nearly half the races now do you know what his average grid position is when he's getting those points low low low low low 16 and a half yeah he's not even making q2 guys and he's getting through to the points so i i feel like it shows what a great job he's doing on sundays the classic hulkenberg skill was qualifying but he's actually you know not not doing so well on saturdays at the moment i feel like if sauber are going to challenge williams that has to get better i think they have to qualify higher up because now that they're looking like a threat i don't think we're going to see these stealth hulkenberg rises to the points because you'll get an alban or a science starting to cover him off when he pits really early or they'll start looking at him now because he's the amount of times he's been 19th 18th 17th on the grid and you're like how has he done that and you look through afterwards and you just see wow he pitted so early and just had great race pace because no one's pitted to cover him off they're like Hulkenberg and a Sauber we'll let him go that that won't keep happening now he's getting close I don't think there is one team maybe one driver that we haven't mentioned yet um Fernando Alonso you know for 400 and however many races and as formidable as ever Lawrence what do you make of the job he's done so far this year well firstly I thought it was remarkable that he went eight

56:22Lawrence Barretto:races without scoring points and now he's on a run of four races inside the points I think the job that Fernando has done there at a team who are clearly struggling with a number of things from trying to gel this incredible infrastructure that they've built you know from the new wind tunnel to the simulator to the factory to to the all of the new people that they've brought in including Adrian Nui they're clearly struggling to kind of get on top of all of that and then for Fernando then to make the most of a new update that has come onto the car and then bring back that trademark consistency that tends to lead to the language that he uses that he's still performing the best that he's ever performed 20 years after he made his debut.

57:05Lawrence Barretto:I think what he's doing there is incredible. And it's also interesting within the prism of, we're talking a lot about what Max is going to do in the future, how Aston Martin are going to have to think about what they're going to do going forward. I don't think Fernando's got any intention of slowing up anytime soon. I think he's really been galvanized by Adrian Newey. They've spent a lot of time together since Adrian's joined. I think he's got real belief that if they can turn things around next year and beyond, he is still the guy performing at the maximum to try and make the most of that package.

57:36Lawrence Barretto:And so I think for Formula One, it is great to see. I think it's great to see that consistency that he's delivered. And also, he's just a great character to have around. So yeah, I think he's done a great job so far this year. I've got an F1 TV feature for you, Loz. I'd love you guys to be in there with a camera when Newey and Alonso are debriefing after a session. Just two great brains, two great Formula One people. It would be a fascinating conversation to listen to, wouldn't it?

58:03Jolyon Palmer:How long have they waited to work together as well? The mutual respect there is through the roof. So I don't know if we'll necessarily get the same team radio messages coming back when there's an Adrian Newey-built car that's on the other end of it and the whole team galvanised to try and get back towards the front end. I think the respect there is going to be immense. We'll make it, TC. Guys, it's been a brilliant chat. Come on then. Who's going to win the World Championship? McLaren. Yeah, thanks, Mike.

58:36Lawrence Barretto:I think Oscar's probably going to edge Lando out of it because I think the consistency will probably be enough for him to do it. But I'm hoping that we get to Abu Dhabi and we don't know what the result is until then.

58:50Jolyon Palmer:I think Lando might find a run in the second half of the season and just put three or four races together, which will decide the shape of the title. I think Norris will find his feet to get it. Do you think McLaren will get involved in any way when it comes to team orders? No.

59:07Lawrence Barretto:No.

59:08Jolyon Palmer:They can't, can they? they've got no leg to stand on to jump in the way now because as Lawrence has rightfully predicted they will win the constructors already so it's just who wins the drivers yeah I think they just

59:20Lawrence Barretto:don't need to that's what the beauty of it isn't it that's why it's set up so perfectly is they could just let them crack on you know they can just do what they need to do and also if they do come together it doesn't matter because there's brand new cars next year so it just they'll have to make do with whatever they've got left so they could just just crack on so what are you saying TC what's your prediction I actually would go with Lawrence on this one I think it's going to go down to the wire and I think if you come to a world cup final in Abu Dhabi I think just Oscar's personality will will win through if it goes down to the wire there you go two Oscars one Lando here

1:00:01Jolyon Palmer:on F1 Nation so you know what if they get to the to the last race shootout and they are level on points i would switch back to an oscar at that moment but my but my my theory is that lando will do enough to get a lead before the final race and he'll he'll do it hopefully it'll be a showdown but he'll have some points in hand at that point but oscar otherwise on a final race is going to be tough to beat with that coolness all right guys it's been a wonderful chat thank you both very much for your time and i'll see you in spa thanks guys cheers tc see you then

1:00:40And to keep across all the latest Formula One news, go to FormulaOne.com or the official F1 app, and you can follow at F1 on social media. We will, of course, be back next Monday with our preview of the Belgian Grand Prix. But for now, thank you very much for listening. F1 Nation is produced by Formula One and Audioboom Studios.

1:01:09This episode is sponsored by Honda. Since its first Formula One victory in the 1965 Mexico Grand Prix, Honda has always taken what's learned on the track and used it to build better cars for everyone. From pushing limits in F1 to engineering the next generation of hybrids like the Prelude Hybrid and Civic Sedan Hybrid, Honda proves that racing doesn't just inspire innovation, It drives it. And that idea of taking lessons from the racetrack and applying them to road cars has always been a part of Honda's DNA. Decades of engineering in the demanding world of Formula One have helped shape the performance and efficiency you see in Honda's road cars today.

1:01:53And now that same thinking is shaping the next generation of hybrids as well. Cars like the 2026 Prelude Hybrid and Civic Hybrid show that electrification can be both efficient and genuinely fun to drive. The 2026 Prelude Hybrid and Civic Sedan Hybrid are engineered for fun. From the racetrack to your driveway. Learn more about the Prelude and Civic and the latest innovations at Honda.com.

1:03:00Jolyon Palmer:We'll be right back. a home in your 30s, working in tech without the traffic, and still being able to make it to your kid's soccer game? Sounds pretty good. In fact, Ohio is the second most affordable state to buy a home. Your move. Learn more at yourmoveohio.com.