What makes the 'perfect' F1 driver?

20:52Jolyon Palmer:And it depends how you define intelligence. But an ability to absorb information and react to it. Of course. That's like the most important thing in the game, isn't it? And when you hear all the driver chatter and everything, is that necessarily, I guess it's like, is that intelligence? Or is that like having an ability to compute things? I guess I'm rambling now, but maybe that is a part of it. Whether it's like you're book smart, intelligent, with a high IQ, or whether you can process things in different ways. That's what I'm saying. There's loads of different ways to be intelligent.

21:27James Hinchcliffe:Yeah. I don't think you need a master's degree to be a great Formula One driver. But no, I think I know what you're trying to say there, TC. And I do agree. I've had experiences in my career, and for obvious reasons, I won't name names, where I raced against drivers that were just, they were massively talented, right? And they got to a certain part of the sport off the back of pure ability. They had no idea why they were fast. They had no idea how they were fast. They were just fast. You put them in a machine, they will drive the wheels off it probably faster than anybody else could. But if the machine's not perfect, they don't know how to make it better, right?

22:10James Hinchcliffe:They don't understand where their strengths are. So to me, that racing intelligence, that driving intelligence comes from that understanding of the car. A formula car is a very complex machine. Understanding how it works at different phases of a corner, at different phases of a stint, that does take some need of general intelligence, right? You need to have a bit of a grasp of engineering, you know, of mechanical engineering, of aerodynamic engineering. So I do think so. I think anytime you get a driver with boatloads of natural talent, I always think, I guess, to end that part of the story, they have so much ability.

22:47James Hinchcliffe:They don't know why they're fast and ultimately their career plateaus because you get to a level where you have these drivers that have massive amounts of talent, but also are wildly intelligent. And you put them together. And yes, the first person that comes to mind to me was also Fernando Alonso. We talk a lot about Max Verstappen's extra capacity in the car. I do think that's an intelligence indicator. Guys like George Russell, Carlos Sainz, we've talked about this in the past. I really do think that intelligence is a key part of it, especially in the more modern area of Formula One, just because these cars are getting so much more complex and understanding all the systems to be able to maximize everything to that last 10th, 100th is crucial.

23:29Jolyon Palmer:You've put that way more eloquently than me, Hinge. I guess it's important to have it. We're not talking about pub quizzes here. No, no, but what I would say is to give props to Sergei Sorokin, because he was super intelligent, and he sat in for me, Magnussen, back in the day in FP1s, and you could see his intelligence working. and he'd sit in the debrief and give like the most thorough debrief for a guy that's just sat in the car. And I think he had gone to uni and, you know, he was a book smart driver that was super thorough with his debriefs. You could see the intelligence and obviously he didn't have the longevity of career, but that's probably because he didn't have the talent of the other guy.

24:13Jolyon Palmer:So he was probably one of the smartest guys I came across in Formula One in terms of the debriefs and the intensity of work. But obviously he had one of the shortest careers. You know that Williams used to set an engineering test for all new drivers? Yeah. I just found that interesting that they felt you did it. I did. What kind of questions? I did. It was all sorts of... You're a hundred percent man, weren't you?

24:40Jolyon Palmer:So I remember doing it and there was a question that sort of didn't make any sense. I think I got one thing wrong. It was loads of data traces, loads of plots and everything. but it was a fascinating thing. But anyway, I won't go into the detail of that. I don't even know if they still do that. But JP, I find it interesting that a team felt the need to test their drivers in that way. Isn't that quite a Williams thing as well, though? I feel like it's a legacy from Frank Williams, Patrick Head, the minds that set it up of like an old school, we want intelligent drivers, we want drivers that can understand exactly what we want from a car.

25:19Jolyon Palmer:and all of this stuff it's certainly it's a benchmark for when you're going to sign as a driver then you know let's let's see who we're dealing with here and it was genuinely it was like 50 questions it was a really good test because there were questions that would that would come give us an example of a challenge anyone give us an example give us an example of a question in the williams test you'd get like a data trace and there'll be all sorts of plots and one would be like let me know when the car goes over a bump and there'll be a damper plot that that goes but but there'd be amongst loads of other lines and you'd have to work out where was the bump on the data.

25:52Jolyon Palmer:So that was like quite a, probably on the more challenging end of it. And there were various, just all sorts of like technical questions. I want to take this test so bad.

26:01James Hinchcliffe:Do you think if I asked James Vallis, he'd send me like the PDF. That would be great. You, me and Jake, see, and Brundle all do the test. That's the new pub quiz, yeah. Yeah, exactly. Well, brilliant. Guys, are there any other categories we haven't spoken about in what makes the perfect Formula One driver?

26:21Jolyon Palmer:It's the big one, isn't it? It's like talent. So it's a feel for grip. And that's for me more than any of these sort of like your brain function, your physique. It's having this sixth sense for grip. And it's a feel through your body of how hard you can push into any corner, to feel the micro slides on the front axle the rear axle know then how much opposite lock or or you know steering input brake input pedal input to to catch the slides that's the that's the magic all of these things i think we're talking about the last 10 the 90 is in i would say like a natural feel or let's say 60 of that is a natural feel 30 of that is experience and seat time as well that's for me the the magic beyond all of this so when i come up with a sergey sorokin example how do you quantify that is that just the stopwatch tells you whether a driver's got that or is it feedback no i think it's well there's a little bit back into into feedback but it's fundamentally it's the stopwatch isn't it and it's your ability to be quick without crashing your ability to then be quick when it rains and you're on slicks and you need to just suddenly switch on the hang on And we're now going 15 seconds a lap slower, but I can't afford to be 16 seconds a lap slower.

27:40Jolyon Palmer:So I need to be on the limit of this grip now. But who the heck knows where the grip is? And that is when you see the ultimate skill set of the driver, which is literally a natural feel for grip through your body, knowing what the tires, what the car is saying to you and driving to the limit of that. And that's what let me down because I didn't have it as much as the rest of them. So who is it then? when you look at all of the greats they've got most of these attributes that we're talking about or all of them and then you're talking like this feel for grip and with different eras it's just so difficult to challenge I mean obviously someone like Senna had this in abundance when you look at his old drives in the Lotus in the Tolman they're the magical days where you realise this guy is unbelievably skilled and then of course gets in a McLaren and figures it all out Fernando for me ticks so many boxes when it rains when it's whatever he's able to get i think there was a quote a while ago where he could get nine out of ten in all of these scores and it makes him a formidable uh challenger then you've got lewis absolutely uh max completely you know all of the greats but to try and i don't know go on hinch are you gonna pluck a name no i mean i i again i mean center was the

28:55James Hinchcliffe:first thought and then and then max was the second just because center for all the obvious reasons Right. We've all all the races you just mentioned. We've watched the onboards. We know what it's what it's like. For me, the thing that always stood out about Max, you know, was these last few seasons, the first run of FP1. He's just he was he'd be a second clear of the field that would eventually get to within a tenth or two of them. but that ability to feel the grip when the grip was on the lower side you know he would immediately and then you look at the drives in the rain the last few seasons that we've seen from him unreal um but it's funny you mentioned fernando because i was going through all this while we're sitting here and i was like it's weird that we haven't brought his name up more because i feel like he is a lot of these things as well and if there's one category i'll add to it to to finish it off it would be just pure racecraft right the wheel to wheel ability to battle come out on top he's for me as good as as good as i've seen you know i think back to peak alonso in 05 06 and then even late alpine early aston alonso still had some incredible races wasn't racing for the win anymore but some of the drives some of the way he could control a battle from in front or behind so so impressive one of the best at it yeah it's almost his ability to keep cars behind that was more impressive than overtaking cars in front it's like he could see the future sometimes

30:19Jolyon Palmer:he reads race race craft so well that he he will calculate before you get to a corner say i'm going to break here if you break later than me fair play but you won't turn the corner from there so this is where i'm going to position it and this will see me come out of the corner ahead and the same when you look at his race starts he will position his car so often just in the perfect spot where he'll cover off the inside he'll know that anyone that breaks later than that will go in deep he'll be probably avoiding the collision that will inevitably happen there and he just has this foresight into into racing and certainly there was a such a difference in caliber when i was racing uh i was racing him in the mclaren honda days and um he was a cut above honestly he was i i've sort of prided myself on my race craft coming through gp2 and i thought i was i thought i was not bad but you'd race him and i was taught a lesson or two a few times he was he with something else.

31:12JP, the great irony about Alonso, and he admits this himself, is that he says, I probably am not the fastest over one lap. My big day is Sunday. And to go back to your point about talent, surely that is manifested most on a Saturday, that feel for grip over one lap in qualifying. You know, we think of Senna's 1988 pole lap at Monaco, where he was one and a half seconds faster than Prost and yet we're eulogizing about Alonso whose speciality was 56 laps on a Sunday.

31:45Jolyon Palmer:Yeah but he's not bad on a Saturday is he? I think he's maybe not the absolute fastest there's ever been but he's not far away and then when you do think racecraft you think it's kind of judgment these are like split second judgment decisions when you're coming into a corner you're in the slipstream of the car ahead and you're thinking can I can't I if you dither in those moments you get it wrong you crash you have to be clinical and you just have to have that clarity of thought and maybe it's the back to your intelligence and and having that in the car which i think he's got abundances an abundance of also reactions something else just plain and simple his starts his ability to to catch moments you're you might feel the grip but you've got to then react um as quick as possible and and you know moving scenarios as well when you look at even Colopinto, that start in Melbourne when he almost rear-ended Liam Lawson.

32:39Jolyon Palmer:Having those reactions has got to be right up there as well. Okay, so guys, we've mentioned Schumacher, we've mentioned Senna, we've mentioned Prost, Alonso, Hamilton, Verstappen, Norris. One driver, please, from each of you. What is the closest we've got to the perfect driver? It can be past or present. i'll give you can i give you a i was thinking about this fernando alonso in those ferrari years is for me the closest we've had to perfection especially 2012 when he nearly won the title but that was when i thought he is ticking all of these boxes the consistency of it as well it's not necessarily i mean he's obviously not had the the more than the two-time world championships and Things have gone away from him and he's not necessarily been a galvanizing force all the time.

33:31Jolyon Palmer:But in that window, I thought at Ferrari, that is just such a brilliant all-round picture of a Formula One driver, I think.

33:39James Hinchcliffe:Yeah, that's a tough one to answer, TC. That's a pretty brutal question. That's a really good response, though. Alonso in the Ferrari years, I think, is right there. I think Vettel in the Red Bull years is pretty close as well because, you know, I know the car had its advantages. But you think back to, you know, how they finished off 09 and then, you know, the subsequent championships. You mentioned the point, JP, about his way to kind of the way he rallies the team and was a team leader. He was beating a very talented driver, you know, a multiple Grand Prix winner. He was up against a pretty strong teammate in his tenure there.

34:20James Hinchcliffe:but then you know lewis is also buried guys you know in in in those similar situations i don't i don't know lewis is tough to beat as well lewis is really impressive when was peak lewis when when was peak lewis do you think or is he still gonna follow up with as soon as i said that

34:37Jolyon Palmer:so i would say 2008 was lewis coming in with aplomb and some of the drives he put in that year obviously won the title right at the end but when you think back to Silverstone when he was clearly a class ahead of the rest and he nearly lapped the whole field didn't he um and a few other drives around that time the skill set that he had he had the team fully singing off his hymn sheet um can I counter this JP can I counter this I think Lewis 2007 was even more impressive than in Lewis 2008. In his first year, was it nine consecutive podiums? I know the McLaren that year was very good, but nine consecutive podiums to start his Formula One career.

35:21He went round the outside of Fernando Alonso at the first turn in Melbourne, the first race. He was perfect, actually, for those first nine races in his debut season.

35:35Jolyon Palmer:Yeah, yeah. Come on, come up with a better season. I mean, you think too late. Well, I think we're also completely disregarding the Mercedes years here because of young Lewis. He was so exciting when he came in. But when you think of Hamilton in those earlier Mercedes years, some of his drives then as well. You think of the Bahrain one with Rosberg coming out on top. And we think about this Fernando, the tactics and all the race craft. That was such a display as well as having pace. the races at the end of 16 i know he didn't win the title but when he went on that run and he had to win every race to try and beat nico uh the brazil grand prix where we think so much about max but lewis just romped it in a different league as well uh that was that was an unbelievable part of his career and he just wasn't massively challenged so it's difficult to to quantify it there but you could still see the the skill that he had right so jp you're still staying with Alonso in the Ferrari?

36:35Jolyon Palmer:I think as a patch, I'm going Alonso Ferrari. Hinch, are you going Hamilton then?

36:41James Hinchcliffe:Yeah, I might go Hamilton 07 because I was with you on that one. As a rookie, I would argue, JP, that he was probably better in 08 because you've got that year of experience. That's just a natural thing to happen. But the relative performance and the fact that he did it as a rookie in 2007. Alongside Alonso. alongside a guy that we were literally just talking, preaching all of his strong attributes, coming off his double, he was the back-to-back rating world champion, and he nearly got owned by a rookie.

37:14Jolyon Palmer:But guys, he can't have been, I know what you're saying, I was watching it as well, it was amazing, he can't have been the best version of himself when he turned up. That's the only thing. You have to say, it was amazing, but he must have got a little bit better. The competition just changed. didn't it?

37:31James Hinchcliffe:Yes, yes. I think everybody leveled up. He did as well. But that one stands out to me still as just one of the most impressive seasons of anyone ever. Okay, and I'm going to throw in Senna in 1993. If you can remember that. Can you remember that? Yeah. Just, you know, in that, in that, my parent, up again. Oh, you were two. But up against, you know, the all-conquering Williams that year Donington 93 when he went from fifth to first in the rain just that hunger we've sort of referenced hunger in a lot really in this chat and and just that desire that hunger the ability that feel for grip back to back to Donington as well just that was I felt that was peak center he was out to prove something uh he wanted that Williams drive for the following year And he made his case.

38:24He made Frank Williams had to employ him. He had, I'm afraid, although Alain Prost has a contract for 1994, we're actually going to replace him with Erton Senna because how can you not? Ultimately, it was the case. This episode is sponsored by Quince. This time of year is always a bit tricky when it comes to choosing what to wear. One minute, it feels like spring has properly arrived. The next, you're reaching for an extra layer again. My wardrobe definitely needs to reflect that. A few reliable pieces that work across different situations and still feel comfortable to wear. And I'm sure it's the same for a lot of you listening.

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40:21let's talk very briefly now just about the driver market for 2027 max has a contract with red bull that lasts until 2028 but he does have performance clauses in it which means he can he can move elsewhere if he's not in a certain position in the championship by a certain time firstly is Verstappen the first domino that needs to fall if we're going to have a driver market frenzy in the

40:47Jolyon Palmer:summer he's the biggest one definitely I think if if something happens there then is whether he moves to another team in which case we've definitely got a a frenzy on our hands uh and you know if he if he doesn't then everybody leaves then there's a space at Red Bull which could see an opportunistic driver elsewhere move there. So I think he's the most topical at the moment. And we said last week, it's probably fairly likely that he'll move at this point. So I think that's where everyone's going to be looking right now. Well, just so quickly, so if he stays, are we expecting quite a quiet market, at least at the sharp end?

41:26Do we think the top four teams, if Max stays at Red Bull, will remain with their current lineups?

41:32James Hinchcliffe:I would think so. You know, I would think so. I think everybody in those teams is performing at a decent level. I don't think Lewis is stopping, because that's kind of the obvious one, right? Was Lewis going to wait to see how the new Ferrari was? And if it wasn't great, he'd hang it up. And then Behrman sort of got his seat waiting for him at Ferrari. But it seems like we're seeing some old Lewis. Ferrari's done a good job with the car. So I would imagine the front half is probably pretty static. I could see a decent amount of movement in the back half regardless, though.

42:00Jolyon Palmer:I think Lewis is probably the biggest question mark. If Max stays at Red Bull, I think it's whether Lewis carries on. He's 41 as well. And it will be whether, obviously, whether he keeps up this level of performance throughout into the sort of contract part of the season in the summer and whether he believes that Ferrari can deliver him a title still and if he still has the hunger to go at it. At the moment, I agree with you, Hinch. I could see him staying on and all parties seem happy. But 41-year-old Lewis there maybe is the bigger question mark. The Mercedes and McLaren guys won't change unless Verstappen enters the fray.

42:34Jolyon Palmer:And I think if Lewis, if anything did happen to Lewis, I think it would be a fairly slam dunk Oli Behrman promotion, assuming Behrman carries on on his trajectory as well. If Max leaves Red Bull, where's his most likely destination? Is it Mercedes, given all the conversations he's had with them over the past 18 months, 24 months?

42:53James Hinchcliffe:Well, it's basically Toto Wolff being put in the same position that Frank Williams was put in, isn't it? You know, because Toto's got two very high performing drivers, two drivers that he has brought up through the sport and groomed into to be, you know, very well-rounded performing Formula One drivers. but there was just so many soundbites from last season of, you know, him dreaming of working with Max. How could you not have the conversation now? How much of that is politicking? How much of that was just trying to, you know, destabilize the Red Bull camp? Very likely, right? It's very possible.

43:33James Hinchcliffe:I think Max only leaves if he's going to Mercedes because Max just wants to win. And it doesn't seem like the, the advantage they have is going anywhere anytime soon. so if he's anywhere it's there but who makes room for him tough call so the only other one i'm

43:50Jolyon Palmer:thinking is you're gonna be surprised by this but ferrari alpino okay no no you don't mean that surprise like yeah um they've got the financial clout you mean well again if you've got on the one hand you've got lewis and as i said i think ollie bearman is obviously you know part of their set up and would go there on the other hand you've got charles and to me he's a driver that has all the talent to be a world champion and is waiting at ferrari for them to have the car to do it and if they can't progress this year at the start of a new set of regulations i i don't know the detail obviously the details of his contract but i imagine he'd be someone that would just be touting around elsewhere to just see if this is his moment now new regs it's still not happening if it's still not happening.

44:37Jolyon Palmer:And there could be an option to look elsewhere. And I think he would be an attractive signing for any of the other top teams. So then if you're Ferrari with a vacancy like a Leclerc, then I think you've got to go hard for Max. I don't see Max at McLaren. I see him definitely at Mercedes. Even with Lambiassi moving to McLaren? I think it would only work. yeah i think it would only work if if one of the mclaren drivers wanted out i think mclaren have done a great job to keep their drivers happy they're both performing to a good level they are harmonious after everything last year as well and i don't see uh management opting to sign max over keeping lando and oscar i think they've done a good job with a young lineup so even if gp comes in i think that's more for gp than it was to to bring max into the fold there and I think I think I could see Max going to a big manufacturer going to a Mercedes or then does he take the the latest big name driver to plunge to Ferrari and see if he can emulate Michael Schumacher and and deliver a title there and he's the sort of guy with all of these other qualities that possibly could galvanize them there the missing ingredient who knows who knows there's There's so many ifs and buts though, aren't there, with this?

45:59Well, guys, finally, I just wanted to reflect on the Bahrain and Saudi Arabian Grand Prixs because these last two episodes of F1 Nation should have been reviews of those two races, which are no longer taking place in April due to the ongoing situation in the Middle East. But while we can't wait to go back to racing at Sakhir and Jeddah again, I thought it would be a good chance to just very quickly discuss our favorite memories of those two races over the years. Who wants to start? Bahrain.

46:30James Hinchcliffe:I don't know how this is going to go over. Please, please take this as I mean it. Let me finish my thought before there's any judgment here. For me, when I think of Bahrain, rightly or wrongly, what comes to mind first and foremost is Grosjean's crash. and and the reason i bring it up in this uh in this sense is because while the accident was horrific and everything in how you know it's just so dramatic and how it played out it was it was such a human moment it was it was um for me it was a really it was a really beautiful moment the aftermath you know when he's out of the car you see the emotion of everybody in pit lane you you hear from him after the fact you see all the systems work right that was an accident that nobody should have survived if i'm being totally frank and the fact that you know he got himself out of the car the design of the car the the the people at the racetrack you know everything that had to go into making that a survivable incident for him i just i just really saw the humanity of formula one and in a, in a cutthroat world where everyone's out for each other at all times, there was this, this kind of beautiful reminder, a horrific thing that took it, uh, to, to come to the light, but a beautiful reminder of the, the humanity of the sport.

47:58James Hinchcliffe:And that even though everybody is, is fiercely competitive, um, we are all, we are all here. We are all human. We are all on the same page in the, in the bigger picture of things. And so I know it's not a typical on track moment to sort of, you know, memorialize in that sense. But for me, that's one of the most poignant moments that I've witnessed in racing.

48:18Jolyon Palmer:I wish I'd gone first now. It's tough to follow on from that one. You're looking out with that great pass. Yeah, exactly. Well, we've gone big picture now. Let's bring it back to a good dice I enjoyed once.

48:33Jolyon Palmer:Sorry, sorry. um so should i go with the dice uh 2022 let's bring it back to the racing um so i would say obviously 2014 is probably the one that that you're expecting somewhere tc or that you've got up your sleeve with the jewel in the desert but i actually wasn't really watching it because i was racing in gp2 and i left i think i was flying home and then i saw the highlights i was like wow i wish i'd watched that so for me it was 2022 when you had the new uh the new regs last time and you had Leclerc and you had Verstappen trading blows lap after lap uh a pretty good race in Bahrain and it's linked to Saudi as well because then you had the same two the next week in Saudi having the same battle and it was like wow new set of regs so entertaining you had Ferrari coming out on top just but the the fight between those guys was was pretty special to watch what do you reckon TC uh well I I did have 2014 up my sleeve not only for that on-track battle But also that was the first year that the Bahrain Grand Prix went under lights.

49:36First time it was a night race. And that was really exciting. It wasn't the first night race in Formula One history because, of course, we'd had Singapore since 2008. But I thought the whole track looked fantastic under the lights. And then when we were gifted that amazing battle between those two Mercedes drivers, it was the perfect evening. Now, you referenced Saudi. A quick memory from Saudi, or I guess, are we all pointing in the same direction at 2021? Can I go first this time? That qualifying lap from Max that wasn't quite, what was he? He was a quarter of a second up on Lewis Hamilton until he got to the final corner, locked up going in and kissed the wall, well, kissed probably a little bit more than that on the way out.

50:21But that was almost the perfect qualifying lap. and it summed up the drama of that stage of the 21 season perfectly for me yeah i i've mentioned

50:32Jolyon Palmer:22 already but i nothing will top 21 in saudi and actually just being in the paddock at the end of that year was a different feeling to anything i've felt since i've been in media the the tension that was different to anything last year as well but we have three drivers going for the title but the Mercedes v Red Bull, Verstappen versus Hamilton. It was a war that had been waging all year. And then it came to a head in that race, didn't it? It was the race of many controversial moments. But you could just feel the jeopardy and the tension. And the whole paddock was just watching on at the box office stuff at the front.

51:08James Hinchcliffe:Love them both. I mean, 22 was kind of the first one that came to mind just because of, like you say, the new rules, that great battle between Charlemax. So I'll just I'll throw in an honorable mention then since we've already already said those two, which is Behrman's debut. Very impressive run and, you know, could be known as the first race in the start of an incredibly long and storied F1 career. Yeah, it was incredible. What did he? He qualified 11th, finished 7th. Yeah. Having been parachuted in on Saturday morning, replacing Carlos Sainz with his appendicitis. Well, guys, what a chat. Thank you both very much for your time.

51:48And this time next week, we will be previewing the Miami Grand Prix because we're almost going racing again. But guys, thank you for your time. And for you listening at home, don't forget to check out F1's other official podcast this week. My guest on this week's episode of F1 Beyond the Grid is Cadillac test driver and F2 racer Colton Hurter. That's out on Wednesday. And you can watch our chat on the F1 YouTube channel as well. and Colton's team principal at Cadillac, Graham Loudon, is answering your questions on the latest episode of F1 Explains. That's just below this show on the F1 Nation feed.

52:24Thank you very much for listening. As I say, we'll be back next Monday to preview the Miami Grand Prix. So we'll speak to you then. F1 Nation is produced by Formula One and Audioboom Studio.

52:43Amen.