Will rules of engagement change for Oscar + Lando? - 2025 United States GP Preview with Jolyon Palmer + Rob Smedley

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1:33Jolyon Palmer:I still don't think in any of these engagement issues he's ever come out favourably. I think as a driver you start to wonder if there's a level of favouritism towards the other driver. It's just natural. You get paranoid. You're in a title fight. And I wonder if that's where we're at with him a little bit. Would you expect the rules of engagement to change now that the Constructors' Championship is in the bag? The drivers will make that decision anyway. And the guy who comes out on top was probably the one who's gone to the edge of those rules or even a little bit beyond at times. How good is George Russell?

2:09Jolyon Palmer:Surely he's indispensable to Mercedes. It's starting to look like he is very much a champion in waiting, I think. Rob, I'd love your take on Ferrari's season. It's not a great place to be in Maranello when things aren't going well, but they've got to remain united. I've been in that situation, it's horrible. Hello everyone and welcome to F1 Nation's preview of the United States Grand Prix with me, Tom Clarkson. I'm joined by F1 TV commentator and former Renault driver, Jolien Palmer, and former Ferrari race engineer, Rob Smedley. let's start with McLaren six races three f1 sprints to go and the first of those sprints is taking place in Austin this weekend Oscar Piastri is 22 points clear of Lando Norris at the top of the table with 174 left to play for now after what happened in Singapore it feels like the intensity in the drivers championship is climbing Rob let's start with you what did you make of Lando and Oscar's incident on lap one in Singapore?

3:17I think that when you start getting towards the point, the end of a world championship, no matter how hard you work, it always gets difficult. It's always going to get touchy, right? There's so much on the line for the team and the two drivers within the team that it's always very, very difficult to manage. You know, I've been in that situation myself before and you can't help. The drivers are such competitive animals that it spills over every now and again. And there was this incident, like we saw at the start of the Grand Prix. What did I think of that? I thought that it was probably Lando getting his elbows out, trying to go for a move that was just about there.

4:06It's the start of the race. People will take slightly more risk at the start of the race. did he do anything particularly wrong not really uh was oscar right to feel aggrieved yes probably so you've got like this dichotomy you're constantly trying to manage this pressure cooker inside the team um and there's never a perfect way to manage it somebody always comes off worse and we've seen that right throughout the season with mclaren you know when they've been dominating and they've been up you know they've been away up the road on their own it's been a one-two for their cars it's difficult to manage.

4:37It seems like a dream situation. If you look from the midfield and think, God, I would love to have a car that dominant. But actually, it's just a different situation with different problems that you have to manage. And I think McLaren are now facing that. And sometimes they get it right. Sometimes they don't get it right. It's as simple as that.

4:57Jolyon Palmer:I think the interesting thing is, I completely agree with all of that. It was a move that was on. I liked Lando's aggression. I thought it was the first time he's looked like he's really wanted to hustle in and take risks to make some points. You have to do the move at the start in Singapore, otherwise you're not going to make it. He obviously felt like he needs to beat Oscar every time now because the 25-point gap now, a 22-point gap, you've got to see it start shrinking. The problem is, and why we talk about it and why it was controversial, was because of the way that McLaren have tried to manage things this year, I think.

5:30Jolyon Palmer:So they're almost their own stewards, aren't they? they're looking at the race and they're thinking is this fair between the drivers so monza was an example of them deciding that that wasn't fair we gave lando a bad pit stop we need to swap the places round and i think that's the sort of thing that's then in oscar's head in singapore he's saying well hang on that's not fair he's just overtaken me by by wheel banging and i've gone off so surely now you need to swap the places back in the same way as you did to me two races ago So problem is, as we said after Monza, you cannot keep the micromanagement to this degree and keep it fair across the board.

6:07I think that's why we're just starting to see, I would say, Oscar be disgruntled with the way things are going

6:14Jolyon Palmer:because there are quite a few things that are sort of going against him here. So do you think the gloves are off now? I think they are. I think they have to be, don't they? And I liked it from Lando. He took the gloves off. I would say he took the gloves off. and now oscar's got to realize that that's it they've got to come off and you you cannot afford to to go half baked into a championship fight i was also thinking no i would say at least double world champion has ever won the championship being nice they're always they're always nasty aren't they when you think about how you know max verstappen races and how he he's not really had a teammate to fight but he races hard he races you know win or bust you look at Sebastian Vettel the multi-21 with Mark Webber you know went against the team team orders got away with it the turkey one he was tough he was really tough and ruthless uh you look at other people Fernando Alonso you look at Lewis Hamilton you look at Michael Schumacher yeah they're all tough tough nuts and they don't take team orders they don't sit there and accept it they'll they'll fight for their cause and argue it afterwards and i think that's what we're starting to get to and i've been in in in this situation before when you when you're trying to manage like the fairness between the drivers right what happens in in in an f1 race is there's always a butterfly effect right so if you take the monza um situation it was a bad pit stop but then before that if you remember if you remember they they'd swap the drivers in terms of the natural order in which they were going to pit and before that something else happened something else happens and when you're the driver the driver is always in a situation where they pick that part of that whole chain of effects and say oh this is the bit that's affected me and this is the bit that's affected me badly you know quite often you'll find them you know a driver might make a bad choice in qualifying and they put themselves in the bad on the back foot in the race and then something will happen down the line where they choose to like kind of pick something that is unfair for them and i think that's why when it comes to what goes on on the track um whether it's you know the the pit stops themselves or the natural order of sometimes when you have to swap um you know which driver comes in first or you have to favor one driver over another because if something's happened in the race that's just the that's just the way that these things play out you know you can't pick an isolated incident and say this is fair or this is unfair.

8:44And I think McLaren did the right thing in Singapore. The two drivers battled hard into the first corner. Again, I agree totally with you that he told you, and it was great to see Lando showing a bit of aggression, showing that he wanted it. Because if he's going to have a chance at the World Championship, he's got to get in there. The team can't interfere on that. it was just the two guys racing hard together fair unfair i don't know it's fair for somebody it's unfair for for somebody else like get on with it and i think that's the bit where once the lights go off the teams you know you've got your um papaya rules or rules of engagement as they would be in any other team once the once once the lights are off it's kind of like whatever happens you just have to get on with and deal with and whatever the natural order is at the end that's the natural order you know trying to um get involved in it in the middle of it it just creates problems and it just creates angst and it just creates a precedent that then one driver another driver will come back and say this happened there three years ago so why are you now like why are you doing something different would you expect the rules of engagement to change now that the constructors championship is in the bag yes yeah yeah definitely you know it now comes down to don't cause us a PR disaster, right?

9:59Maybe you can race a little bit harder. Maybe there can be a little bit more aggression. But I think the drivers, again, Jolion made the point, the drivers will make that decision anyway. And the guy who comes out on top was probably the one who's gone to the edge of those rules or even a little bit beyond at times. I worked with Michael for so many years across lots of those world championships. He was utterly ruthless. And he went to the edge and beyond on occasions as we all know of of of what was acceptable but he did that to get seven stars you know he's a seven star general he didn't do that by like seeding and by thinking oh well you know what does the team want me to do here and will the team be upset with me he like that that wasn't at the forefront of his mind at all it was how do i win this race and what means do i have what are the tools i have you know the car underneath me but everything else that i've got as well and i'm going to put them all on the table and use every single one of them if that's aggression or you you know, going beyond, you know, sportsman-like behaviour at times, as we saw on occasion with him, and we see with all the top guys, then so be it, you know.

11:08You just have to kind of get on with it. So I think we would all like to see a little bit more, you know, aggression from the two drivers in battling each other, the two McLaren drivers, and see which one comes out on top. You know, that's what we watch Grand Prix racing for, right?

11:21Jolyon Palmer:The other thing, though, is if you imagine it from Oscar's point of view, I still don't think in any of these moments engagement issues he's ever come out favorably if if I'm just thinking again top of my head stuff but uh you got the Silverstone one he got a penalty felt it was harsh asked for the team to swap back if they thought it was harsh they would have done had it been you know max they would have thought it was an outrageous penalty but because it was between the two McLarens they kept the order Lando wins you've then got the Budapest strategy where Oscar was the lead driver kind of got a bit done by his own team on strategy there with Lando winning the race um you've got Monza where he's actually had to give up a position and then you've got Singapore where Lando's wheel banged his way through and not had the swap around I know in all of this you've got Lando's lost points with a with a DNF in Zandvoort Lando's had sort of slower pit stops more on average even if Oscar got one in Singapore but it must be a little bit grating for Oscar to think, flipping hell, can I just have one rub of the green here in terms of the teammate dynamics?

12:27Jolyon Palmer:I think as a driver, you start to wonder if there's a level of favouritism towards the other driver. It's just natural. You get paranoid. You're in a title fight. And I wonder if that's where we're at with him a little bit. Back to school starts now. Get long lasting battery life on the Dell XPS laptop powered by Series 3 Intel Core so you can work from anywhere. Now starting at$699 with exclusive student pricing starting at$599. And it's lightweight, portable and packed with enough processing power to make multitasking a breeze. So say goodbye to distractions and hello to more free time because you've finished your work faster.

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15:11I had a really interesting chat with James Valls on F1 Beyond the Grid last week. He witnessed firsthand the intense championship fights between Lewis Hamilton and Nico Rosberg at Mercedes. And I asked him how he'd handle a future title battle between Alex Albon and Carlos Sainz. And this is what he said. Professional racing drivers are like any elite athlete in the world. They want to have something where they know they can push the limits to, but in a way that they understand what those limits are so that when they're transcending it, you have a correction mechanism in place. Think of it as creating a box around them.

15:45That's your box. That's where you push into it. You push a millimeter over that, on the other hand, you step into my world and this is how we correct it. So the construct isn't trying to restrict them. It's trying to give them the boundaries where they know as a sportsman, they can absolutely push themselves to limit, but at least they know where the limit is now. I spoke about 2016. My learning was you've got to be so clear on that. abundantly clear that people understand that when you transcend that, the consequences are dire. What's in your armory? How do you punish a world champion elect? The most harshest of punishments is you're not in the car next week.

16:21Correct. And you would have that in your back pocket? If you had two drivers that were pushing themselves that they are effectively crashing into each other more than they're finishing a race, yes. Rob was that a threat ever used at Ferrari? No absolutely not I think it's like I think you've got to have sanctions that are sensible you know not going in the car the next week you know being replaced you're only hurting yourself right because there's a reason why you've got two the two drivers that you have as your two official drivers if you're going to replace them with a a non-official driver you're going to hurt the team at that point so I think you've got to I agree with James you have to have limits and the one thing that I think you know that that is is so true in in what he said is there has to be clarity right you cannot have an ounce of ambiguity now what happens is where does the ambiguity come in the ambiguity comes in because there's an edge case that you haven't thought about so you say here's the rules of engagement this is what we do right usually on a on a on a saturday on a sunday morning sorry um team principal senior members of the the very senior members of the team and the two drivers would sit down and we would all sit around in in an office in in the hospitality and we would say right here's the rules of engagement this is what we're going to do right if this happens that term one this is what happens if this happens um during the first lap this is what happens here's how you engage here's how you don't engage where you get the blow-ups is the edge cases right because we wouldn't sit there and say if um one of you drives into the other one um in turn two and uh and drives towards the wall um that's an unexpected behavior so you've got to have complete clarity between your drivers you've got to set the boundaries is absolutely right um so of course for the team it's always that you want to you know you you want that constructors championship the drivers solely focus on themselves and that's right by the way right if you had like we go back to the point jolene made like very early on like if you've got drivers who are you know the best team players and that's all they ever think about is the team and they never think about themselves you've got the wrong guy in the car you need you need you need warriors in the car who are who are thinking solely about themselves you then have to set the boundaries and the conditions that in their their elite athletes so they're selfish that's part of their makeup but you have to set the boundaries within which they work that their their behavior has the best outcome for the team that's how you play it but you're never going to get a driver especially like you know multiple world championship drivers going back to the point we talked about earlier who are thinking how can i help all my teammates mates out in fact not not only that how do i help the guy across the garage out like let me do something really magnanimous for them like no no way that's never going to happen so i like the

19:24Jolyon Palmer:idea that you know james is is such a nice straightforward viewpoint that you can bench the driver if they do something bad enough that's the threat can you guys remember that ever happening in formula one and bearing in mind the list of names that have been pretty contentious at times you're gonna bench center from the next grand prix we didn't think that was fair in comes jonathan palmer for the next race no love it it's not it's not happening is it and so this is from a driver's viewpoint there i think there's a level of championship ruthlessness that these guys have and they will do whatever it takes and you know in the end you ask for forgiveness and it's a bit awkward you walk in and you're like oh really sorry i need to apologize and put some level of vague viewpoint over that it wasn't completely your fault there was a misunderstanding somewhere and i mean we're talking about someone getting benched for the next race but i can't remember any level of hindrance for the next race like sit out of an fp1 or have a worse strategy or swap the cars in the grand prix or in the end they're all words aren't they in the end the team have to sort of get on with it because you've still got warriors in the car and you want to win the race so you put the best guy in and you say don't do that again and if they do what are you going to do again it is part of McLaren's problem that Piastri and Norris are so similar in performance it seems to me that whole list of drivers that you mentioned right at the start Jolyan in the intra-team battle there was always one driver who was better than the other right and i think you go you have to go back to 2007 to the last time you had a blow up like we might get between the current mclaren drivers because they're so similar and that was alonso and hamilton because they were so similar it doesn't doesn't the dynamic work best when you can give them equal equipment but it just so happens that one of them is better than the other but it pretty it usually happens like that doesn't it it's very rare that you have drivers that are so evenly matched like we've got now, and they have the best car, that there's not a third challenger, a Kimi that's going to steal it right at the end.

21:36Jolyon Palmer:So normally there will be the momentum, even with Lewis and Nico Rosberg, even if it's close, you know that Lewis has the talent and probably will eventually get there. And he was pretty unlucky in the 2016 year. I also just think, I don't see this one blowing up entirely. I think the gloves will come off. I think they might get, you know, there'll be some more moments but I don't know if the drivers have necessarily got it in them to be the 10 out of 10, do it all. I don't know. They get on very well. They've still got such respect across the garage. They have respect for the team and I don't think they're going to risk blowing the whole thing up.

22:19Jolyon Palmer:I think they'll risk a dicey overtake here but I don't think they're going to be win or crash necessarily. Yeah, I'm totally with that as well. I think you kind of, you know, I don't know intimately Lando nor Oscar, but you can just from observing them, you know, at close quarters and having worked with, you know, guys like Michael, guys like Fernando, who will, you know, push to the limits to get what they want all day, every day. yeah i think we've got two different personalities here but i think i think we've got two different personalities who are also probably let's call it like molding into their personalities don't forget they're still pretty young the pair of them um you know they're not they're not rookies anymore uh far from it they've they've got they've got experience but this is the first time that they've operated you know that we're into new territory for them the dominant car um fighting together for for a world championship so there's new territory that they're stepping into um it's a whole new world at times they they're going to make some mistakes they're going to make some errors but i don't think i agree totally with what johnny on said is that like they're not these are not like assassins like some of the guys that we've mentioned before they will do stuff on the track they will go to different levels they the gloves will come off a bit more but I don't think it's going to be like some of the the really caustic stuff that we've seen in the past when it was Lewis and Fernando yeah it was explosive and it got nasty and it got really really uncomfortable but I don't think we're going to get that here all right do you think they're going to have the car advantage in Austin yes they weren't particularly pretty in the high drag sensitivity circuits like Monza and Azerbaijan, Singapore qualifying, they got it wrong.

24:18They just weren't able to get on top of the car in qualifying and that set the scene. Max was, George Russell was. But if you look at the race, you should make no mistake that they had the fastest car in the race. They just weren't able to use it in Singapore because of how difficult it was to overtake. So I would expect that it would take something, a really strange set of circumstances and conditions for them not to be back to the normal order of 2025 by the time we get to Austin.

24:48Jolyon Palmer:I think Max will still be a threat. I think the way that Red Bull have improved in recent races and also remember Silverstone, which is similar-ish to Austin. There's a few more slower corners in Austin, a few more fumbles through the mid-sector. but Max was on pole at Silverstone with the trimmed out Red Bull. And they do seem to have found something with the way that they're approaching the weekends. We spoke, didn't we, TC, before Singapore, and you said, yeah, he's in the title fight. And I said, no, they're not going to be competitive. And they were, to be fair, in Singapore. So I think they're showing they can do it on a bigger range of circuits.

25:23Well, look, so Max is, what is he? He's 63 points behind Piastri. Has this season got 1986 vibes about it where you had the dominant Williams Hondas in 1986. They dominated the Constructors' Championship and then Alain Prost snuck in at the last race in Adelaide for McLaren and won the Drivers' Championship. How realistic is something like that happening this year with Max coming in and stealing the Drivers' Championship at the last?

25:55Jolyon Palmer:You still reckon it's on, don't you? I do. Yeah, I do. I absolutely do. I thought Red Bull were incredibly buoyant after the race. And I think they were probably thrilled at the prospect of the gloves coming off at McLaren. Those two guys potentially could take each other out of a race. They're definitely going to take points off each other. Whereas it's all about Max Verstappen in a fast Red Bull. And I agree with you. I think he could win this race from pole position this weekend. We have to now assume that Max and Red Bull are going to be there in the rest of the races. it's only because it's max isn't it you can't rule him out and the way that he's been he pieces weekends together he finds pole laps in q3 it's that's the that's the glimmer of a chance that is because of the you know the level of ruthlessness of the driver it's just tough to see how it's going to happen if anything happens to max in any of the six grand prix it's over like that and i I can't see him reining it in the whole way.

26:56But can I just say this as well? In 2025, with McLaren having up to now, more or less on most occasions, dominated the season, we're talking about Max Verstappen having a chance of being world champion with a car that has been second best for the majority of the season, 80-90 % of the season. And this guy, we're still talking that this guy could win the world championship and it is mathematically possible. and I just want to say that just shows how good this guy is you know this guy is just another planet to everybody else at the minute and I think this is his best season as well the other thing is

27:31Jolyon Palmer:at some point let's say it's you know Max let's say he's leading the way of fighting for wins at some point Lando's got to start racing him because Lando can't afford to finish behind Max all the time because he needs he needs this buffer back to Oscar if there's only three points in it between the two McLarens, that suits Oscar down to the ground. He'll win the championship. Lando needs to, in the last three races, he's been ahead of Oscar, but he needs to be ahead by more, which is by beating a Red Bull. So at some point, could be Austin, where there's good chances to overtake, especially into the first corner.

28:05Jolyon Palmer:At some point, he needs to get racy with Max as well. Which brings us back to last year, the outside of Turn 12, you know, where Max, where Max, I thought, played the numbers brilliantly, forcing him to go around the outside Lando gets the five second penalty what is Lando going to do if turn 12 is his best chance to get past Max and Max every single time is going to make him go around the outside what do you do Jolian? Right so I still think last year was it was pretty sketchy the defense from Max to run yourself off the road and I think if he does that again I think he'll get a penalty for it I think the way that the guidelines are it's pretty well written now that it's been closed up, that you can't now defend and go off the road.

28:51Jolyon Palmer:But there's still this thing, isn't there, of everyone just gets a little bit shaky when you're racing, Max, because you're never going to get an easy pass. You know he's got ability on the brakes that somehow he'll smoke it in. You'll think, no way, that's done. And he'll just scrabble it around, keep it on the track. Or if he doesn't, he'll certainly argue that there was a reason why he didn't and make a decision pretty tough for the stewards. so yeah it's a that's the problem for i think for lando particularly who has to force the issue with max is how does he beat this guy who's always covering the inside do you go for the outside and you know you're never going to keep it around the outside but just claim to the stewards do you try and the switch back it's pretty difficult to achieve as well and we saw that last year it didn't work out especially at 12 because the next corner is a right-hander you're not going to overtake like that it's tricky and i think that's certainly going through the mind of lando when they're racing.

29:44Back to school starts now. Get long-lasting battery life on the Dell XPS laptop powered by Series 3 Intel Core so you can work from anywhere. Now starting at$699 with exclusive student pricing starting at$599. And it's lightweight, portable and packed with enough processing power to make multitasking a breeze. So say goodbye to distractions and hello to more free time because you've finished your work faster. Complete your setup with savings on select monitors and more must-have electronics and accessories. Limited time deals and free shipping on PCs and more await you at dell.com forward slash deals.

30:29That's dell.com slash deals.

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31:19Now, I have some very exciting news for you if you're in Austin this week. The F1 Hub is racing into town for a limited time only. From October the 13th to 20th, visit 1712 Congress Avenue in Austin and experience the ultimate pit stop shop for official F1 merch. These are exclusive drops that you cannot find anywhere else, from F1 and your favourite teams, as well as special edition collabs for the United States Grand Prix. The F1 Hub is only in town until the 20th of October, and then it's gone. So don't miss out and make sure you head down to the pop-up on 1712 Congress Avenue in Austin before it's too late.

32:01For more information, go to f1.com forward slash hub. George Russell wins the Singapore Grand Prix. Well, weekend.

32:13Jolyon Palmer:Well done. Oh, yeah. Come on. George, that was mega today. Driver-car combination, perfect. Now, George Russell dominated in Singapore for his second win of the season. New contracts for 2026 for both George and Kimi Antonelli at Mercedes are expected very soon. Can we talk about the contractual situation now, guys? even when they announce that they're in for 26 will it give russell and antonelli any security at all knowing that verstappen is still out there and available for 27 russell's played a blinder hasn't he soak up a little bit of contract pressure in the summer max doesn't take it knock out a couple of great races second in baku wins in singapore and then he says right where's my contract now surely he's indispensable to mercedes i mean my my understanding on that is that mercedes quite rightly like any team with half an ounce of of sense are going to try to get max verstappen in their car you just want the best athlete on your team whether or not that athlete is designing the car or driving the car or whatever it is you just want the best athlete right and i think it's then up to the senior like the executive team to to kind of manage that situation but get the best athlete first off and then we'll manage the fallout of having that best athlete whatever your sports team is and and remember that we had this situation very recently as well in mercedes where the seven-time world champion lewis hamilton was offered a one plus one deal um you know so there was security for a year and then at the end of that year you know all bets were off and and we would see whether we renewed for the other one or two years so i think if if if mercedes are prepared to do that with um lewis hamilton they're certainly going to be prepared to do it with george if the prize is max verstappen and imagine if imagine if for whatever reason george chooses to not sign for mercedes i mean you have to say the other options for next year and not great for him so it would be uh he would be taking a bit of a hit out of principle there but mercedes would be stuffed you're heading to a new set of regs with antonelli and another driver that you're picking up from somewhere you know all the established drivers that you'd want in the car are taken they'd be absolutely stuffed for a for a massive championship aspiring team they need him it begs the question how good is george russell i think he's i think he's top class so I think Singapore Grand Prix you've got Russell starting on pole and I think you could have the faith that Russell in a Mercedes was capable of being a match to Verstappen and Red Bull because I think George is ticking all the boxes I don't think there's really anything left that he's not able to do right now and I still think Mercedes as a team they know how to win races they've not forgotten from their DNA of winning all those titles how to execute strategies how to not be a rabbit in the headlights, you know, looking at plans B or C or whatever.