In short
Lando Norris winning the 2025 Formula One World Championship “the Lando way,” focusing on his season turnaround, McLaren’s race strategy, and the championship’s rollercoaster among Norris, Max Verstappen, and Oscar Piastri.
Guest backgrounds
Jolyon Palmer is an F1 TV expert and former Renault driver. James Hinchcliffe is an F1 TV expert and a six-time IndyCar race winner. Will Joseph is Norris’s race engineer (since 2019).
Key claims
Norris clinched the title after 24 rounds, with McLaren’s strategy and pit stops praised as “perfect.” Norris says he won by staying himself—less “aggressive like Max,” more calm, honest, and focused on mental resilience and personal growth. Palmer argues Norris broke the “ice cold killer” champion template by being vulnerable publicly while still performing. Joseph credits Norris’s support network and composure, including after early-season setbacks like Zandvoort.
Notable examples
Norris being passed early by Oscar, then managing pressure from Charles Leclerc; the Vegas disqualification and Qatar strategy as major championship swing points; Norris’s Mexico win by 30 seconds; Oscar’s “low grip” struggles in Austin/Mexico/Brazil and a penalty in Brazil; Verstappen’s Abu Dhabi P2 and comments about team atmosphere and missing the title.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOCelebration of Victory
1:23 to 2:01
Reactions to Lando Norris winning his first World Championship.
“This oil change, fall in love with your car all over again.”
Analyzing the Championship Drive
2:01 to 3:08
Discussion on Norris's performance and strategy during the championship ride.
“To call yourself the champion, you have to still be standing by the end of the fight.”
Lando's Perspective on Winning
3:08 to 8:06
Lando Norris shares his thoughts on winning the championship his way.
A Candid Champion
8:06 to 8:20
Reflections on Lando's honest approach to his championship journey.
“He's so proud that he's won this the Lando way.”
Breaking the Champion Mold
8:20 to 12:30
Discussion on how Norris's approach differs from traditional champions.
“He kept saying, looking at the media saying, I think you want me to be more aggressive.”
Closing Thoughts
13:59 to 14:11
Final reflections on the themes discussed in the episode.
The Rollercoaster of Lando's Championship Season
15:14 to 19:29
Exploration of the unpredictable nature of Lando Norris's championship campaign.
“that has fluctuated as much as Landos has this year?”
Will Joseph on Lando's Journey and Resilience
19:30 to 24:28
Interview with Lando's race engineer discussing emotional highs and lows.
“I think he's shown enough that he's a worthy champion if it had been him today anyway.”
Looking Ahead: Lando's Future After the Championship
24:29 to 28:00
Discussion on how winning the championship will impact Lando's career.
“I think it's been great to see how people have rallied around him and been strong and how he's used other people's confidence and other people's opinion and information to be strong and stay strong.”
Winter Preparations in F1
28:00 to 28:38
The importance of preparing for the next F1 season and reflecting on past performance.
“It is relentless but enjoy the party very well done from all of us Thank you very much, I appreciate it If there's one thing Formula One proves, it's that progress comes from people who are willing to push the limits.”
Show all 20 chapters
Oscar Piastri's Championship Journey
29:51 to 35:16
Discussion on Oscar Piastri's performance and challenges throughout the season.
“Let's talk a little more now about the other side of the garage then.”
Reflections on Race Strategies
35:16 to 37:59
Analyzing Max Verstappen's race strategy and potential risks taken.
“The reason he drove into the back of him is because he was so much faster in the race.”
Red Bull's Championship Tactics
37:59 to 42:01
Exploring the tactics employed by Red Bull during the championship race.
“into strengths once again and to discover maybe completely new driving styles that no one's ever needed before.”
Red Bull's Strategy and Performance Analysis
42:01 to 46:00
Explore the strategic decisions made by Red Bull during the race and their implications.
“Even Oscar in the cool-down room said, you didn't fancy backing the pack up then?”
Max Verstappen's Reflections Post-Race
46:01 to 48:19
Listen to Max Verstappen's thoughts on his season and the team's dynamics.
“So that's our race winner, our man who's finished P2 in the World Championship.”
Debating the Best Driver of the Season
48:20 to 53:54
A discussion on the top drivers of the season and their performances.
“I mean, isn't the key to this one that he hasn't always had the best car and the turnaround and the way he's led that team with the management change after Silverstone.”
Rookie of the Year Controversy
53:55 to 56:00
Analyzing the rookie performances of Hadjar and Behrman.
“As the whole season, his numbers have been brilliant But it's got to be Max, hasn't it?”
Discussion on Driver Performance and Competitiveness
56:00 to 56:56
The hosts discuss the performance and competitiveness of drivers in Formula 2 and F1.
“You know, he'd been thrown in at the deep end with Ferrari.”
Year-End Reflections and Future Prospects
56:56 to 57:32
A reflection on the year’s highlights and looking forward to the next season.
“You can become a steward in Formula One.”
Year-End Reflections and Future Prospects
59:37 to 1:00:42
A reflection on the year’s highlights and looking forward to the next season.
“find that same variety in Valspar Ultra paints.”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:01If there's one thing Formula One proves, it's that progress comes from people who are willing to push the limits. And history is full of them. The inventors, engineers, leaders and outsiders who change the game through bold ideas, nerve and moments of brilliance. That's what the podcast Short History Of is all about. Each vividly immersive episode delves into one remarkable subject from world history, from revolutionary people and world-changing inventions, to defining events that still shape our lives today. So if you love innovation, ambition and stories about what happens when people go all in, give Short History Of a listen.
0:47Search for Short History Of wherever you get your podcasts.
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2:00Lando Norris is the Formula One World Champion. Norris wins the title in 2025. To call yourself the champion, you have to still be standing by the end of the fight. After 24 rounds, It's Lando Norris who takes his first world championship. It's the promised land for Lando. Oh, my God. You made a kid's dream come true. Thanks so much. I love you guys. Thanks for everything. You deserve it. I love you, ma 'am. I love you, dad. Thanks for everything. I'm not crying. What a magical moment for Lando Norris, etching his name into the Formula One history books forever. I'm Tom Clarkson, this is F1 Nation.
3:00And joining me in the Asmarina paddock to reflect on an incredible finale to this thrilling championship fight are F1 TV experts, former Renault driver Jolyon Palmer and six-time IndyCar race winner James Hinchcliffe. we're at McLaren the tables are sticky from a little bit of spilt champagne people are still hugging each other all around us team Lando is jubilant and so they might be because he did
3:27Jolyon Palmer:everything right today didn't he it was a really good drive at a time when the pressure I thought it was just unimaginable pressure when when he was lining up on the grid the tension of not lining up at the front you got max there uh i spoke to the drivers uh before the drivers parade and i could sense the caginess from them all as well they were tighter lip than they usually are knowing i think the occasion was just was just huge but to be fair to lando i thought he didn't really put a foot wrong i thought mclaren needs to take a lot of credit as well because the strategy was perfect uh the pit stops were executed amazingly and the driver did the job super impressive i mean when
4:06James Hinchcliffe:you think about the fact this title should have been wrapped up at least a race ago were it not for the disqualification in Vegas he came into this race with more pressure than he should have had and he and he handled it I mean it's it's it's one of those situations where he's he's maybe taken a bit of flack for his mental strength you know and in the past but this season he's grown so much as a driver and this was really the ultimate test wasn't it I mean finishing on the podium was what he needed to do to clinch the championship but that was by no means just a straightforward feat i mean we saw early in the race gets passed by oscar he's being hounded by charl everything that he needed to do he did and ultimately the the most deserving guy won well let's hear from our new world champion here's what lando norris had to say after winning his first world title one of the things that makes me most proud is um i feel like i've just managed to win it the way I wanted to win it which was not by being someone I'm not not trying to be as aggressive as Max or as forceful as all the champions might have been in the past whatever it may be um you know I'm happy I just want it my way I'm happy I could go out and be myself and win it Orlando's way as Andrea would tell me and uh that certainly makes me happy that uh could I have gone out and been more of that person you probably want me to be at times I could have done.
5:25I would have been less proud about it in some ways. So that's why I'm very happy with myself in terms of I kept my call. I kept to myself. I kept the focus on myself and I got the most out of how I am. And I did things my way this season. I want it in my style of just trying to be a good person and a good team member. And I'm proud about that. Lando, you were pretty convincing earlier in the weekend when you said you felt relaxed was that the reality just how tough has this weekend been for you emotionally I had a lot a lot of tough moments in the beginning of the season which I've had to go above and beyond in terms of expanding my group expanding the people that I work with on the track and and more so off the track the amount of people that I have in my corner, not from McLaren, but externally, my friends, my family, my coaches, people that help me think in better ways and perform in better ways.
6:26So many people that allowed me to go out and be more calm and almost try and not acknowledge this pressure or just perform under pressure and have the second half of the season that I had. You know, if I look back on it my first half of the season not the most impressive certainly times I made some mistakes I made some bad judgments I made my errors but how I managed to turn all of that and and have the second half of the season that I had is what makes me very proud that I've been able to prove myself wrong there was those doubts I had in the beginning of the year and I proved myself wrong and that's something that makes me very happy it was like all right my way is not working and I got to understand things differently.
7:09I got to speak to more people. I've got to understand what I'm thinking, why I'm thinking it. Why am I doing this? Why am I getting tense in qualifying? Why am I making the decisions that I'm making, whatever it may be? So the struggles turned into strengths, I would say. If I didn't have those struggles at the beginning and then had the, you know, the weakness at the end, would I caught on to those things as quickly? Probably not. So I'm almost thankful that I had some of the tough moments early on and managed to turn them around but yeah when I got in that kind of good rhythm and the last few three months almost when there's been more pressure than ever was almost when I felt most comfortable and most confident into every qualifying you know I could go from chatting to my engineers and having a fun time with my mechanics to going out and getting pole a few minutes later so you know I felt like yeah the struggles at the beginning really allowed me to unlock my potential later on I have never witnessed a more candid conversation from a newly crowned world champion.
8:13It was extraordinary. He was so honest. He's so proud that he's won this the Lando way. He kept saying, looking at the media saying, I think you want me to be more aggressive. You want me to, you know, be more like Max. No, I've won this my way. and he's so proud that he's made his family happy as well. He came across as just the most genuine guy you could possibly be. And he should be proud.
8:39James Hinchcliffe:He should be proud because he's broken the mold a little bit. And we talked about this, I think, back in Austin. You know, we sat there and when he's getting, you know, criticism from people saying that he's too honest in the pen, he points out his own mistakes, you know, he's too hard on himself. And the point I made at the time, you know, he speaks about his mental health and the struggles that he's had And I think we've created this stereotypical, you know, template for what a world champion should be. And it's this ice cold killer. You know, it's this even keeled show no emotion. Your competitor's the enemy because that has worked for a long time.
9:17James Hinchcliffe:There's a lot of drivers you can point to that have done that. Lando's taking a completely different approach, but he's taking the approach that works for Lando. He figured out what worked for him. He worked on himself. and I mean sitting in the press conference and calling out the media you guys want me to be more aggressive you and I don't care and resisting that pressure and that expectation of what a champion should be and doing it his way I think is great for young athletes to know that you can still be vulnerable in a public space but still get the job done at the highest level and and obviously great for him he's going to go to bed at night and sleep very well with with how he did it he
9:52Jolyon Palmer:said it to me directly after the brazil grand prix and i went i was in uh in the parfa meet interviews i said how have you managed this turnaround to put the run of form together at the crunch time and he and he literally said i've stopped listening to crap from the media can i say that and it is because i think a lot of a lot of the way that he works i think you're right you know we've seen so many champions behave a certain way the ruthlessness you have you sort of defense up sometimes in the media he's so honest he's for a long time now been up front about his mistakes when he's not been doing well and of course the media will jump on it it'll say i guess he opens himself up to a vulnerability that when we travel the world we have so many races the media will create narratives out of it so he's obviously managed to shut that out not listen to it at all get on with the driving and to be fair to him the last two races were maybe not his absolute finest of the year, but they were absolutely solid under pressure.
10:48Jolyon Palmer:The rest of it, that run-in, has been him driving at the highest level through even Austin, but Mexico and Brazil. So if you're delivering like that under pressure of the championship, that speaks volumes, doesn't it? I love his honesty with himself. He said he made changes to, he said, not McLaren, it was my own personal team. And he didn't elaborate as to what that was. But I love the fact that he could look at his performances. You know, I think he probably was referencing the mistake he made in Montreal that had come on the back of a few races where he'd been outperformed by Oscar Piastri.
11:22And he knew he had to change something to turn it around. And he did. And I think there are a lot of racing drivers out there who are arrogant and so high on their own supply, for one of a better way of phrasing it, that they aren't looking inward enough. And Lando has done that. And I think that's a huge credit to him.
11:41Jolyon Palmer:But a lot of the times they sort of are looking inward, but they're not telling you that because they're not opening themselves up to the honesty. So I agree on the one hand, but the drivers are also meticulous in what they want and the level of demands across the field. But they wouldn't necessarily be as honest in terms of things not going right because of the way that the media can perceive them and then talk about them.
12:04James Hinchcliffe:And there's sort of two sides to it. There's not being willing or able to look inward and define what's wrong or establish what's wrong. But then even if you can do that and you do do that, actually being able to go and fix it is something completely different. Even if you had the self-awareness to say, I'm struggling with X, Y, Z, to know how to fix it and to actually be able to, there's a lot of drivers that know, hey, I need to be better at this, but actually doing it is very, very difficult.
12:29Jolyon Palmer:Quote, unquote, I turn my struggles into strengths is what he said. It's the key. And to be open about your weaknesses. I think that's the thing. to be open when things are really bad, to say they're really bad and it's on me. And that's fine. Don't try and deflect it onto the team. Don't try and deflect it onto anyone else. A lot of people do as a defence mechanism, but Lando has borne the brunt of, especially in Jeddah time when he crashed in qualifying on a run of dodgy Q3s. And he just felt like, oh, mate, you've got the weight of the world on your shoulders. Just palm some of it off and save yourself.
13:02Jolyon Palmer:But he's always been honest. and again it's that level of candidness that's sent him through and he's stuck to his word hasn't he?
13:14If there's one thing Formula One proves it's that progress comes from people who are willing to push the limits and history is full of them. The inventors, engineers, leaders and outsiders who change the game through bold ideas, nerve and moments of brilliance. That's what the podcast Short History Of is all about. Each vividly immersive episode delves into one remarkable subject from world history, from revolutionary people and world-changing inventions, to defining events that still shape our lives today. So if you love innovation, ambition and stories about what happens when people go all in, give Short History Of a listen.
13:58Search for Short History Of wherever you get your podcasts.
14:11If there's one thing Formula One proves, it's that progress comes from people who are willing to push the limits. And history is full of them. The inventors, engineers, leaders and outsiders who change the game through bold ideas, nerve and moments of brilliance. That's what the podcast Short History Of is all about. Each vividly immersive episode delves into one remarkable subject from world history, from revolutionary people and world-changing inventions, to defining events that still shape our lives today. So if you love innovation, ambition and stories about what happens when people go all in, give Short History Of a listen.
14:56Search for Short History Of wherever you get your podcasts.
15:14Can you guys think of a championship campaign that has fluctuated as much as Landos has this year? Let's cast our minds back to Sandvort, 34 points behind his teammate, and yet here he is, world champion, by only two points.
15:28James Hinchcliffe:I mean, I'll let you think back into the history books because you're better at that than I am. But I just want to say that you could make that same case for all three of the championship contenders at the end. Max's season has fluctuated just as dramatically. Oscar's, I mean, at one point it looked like Oscar was going to have this sewn up by September. And his season has ebbed and flowed. So I don't know if I've ever seen a season where three different drivers all got to the final race with a shot at it, having been through such big fluctuations over the course of the year?
15:59Jolyon Palmer:Not for a long time, certainly. My head's going back to 2012 when Fernando Alonso started the year with a pig of a Ferrari, suddenly led the championship. Red Bull went nowhere. Fernando went on an amazing run mid-season and then got usurped right at the end with Sebastian Vettel. But that was a two-pronged championship, wasn't it? It was either Alonso or Vettel by then. But this way, the way you've intertwined three drivers driving at the highest level, all with various peaks and troughs that are well documented through the year. I mean, you've got Norris struggling quite a lot in that first third.
16:34Jolyon Palmer:You've got Verstappen being absolutely nowhere in the middle third, to the point that he said in Budapest he wouldn't win another race. He then comes on strong at the same time as the guy that's looked absolutely on fire the whole way drops away. That's Oscar. and it all comes to a head through the disqualification in Vegas, the strategy in Qatar. It somehow all comes that they all arrive here. And genuinely, even on the last lap, you can never count Verstappen out. Something going wrong for Norris. And it's been an amazing rollercoaster year, I agree, for all three. So much of the narrative at the front this year has been around the way McLaren's gone racing.
17:11Do you think Lando's championship success will change that? Do you think the pendulum inside that garage is now going to swing Lando's way and stay there?
17:22James Hinchcliffe:I don't think so. I think the culture that Zach and Andrea have created there and the execution of that kind of team philosophy. And, you know, I interviewed Zach in Vegas and he said, this isn't a me philosophy. McLaren's always gone racing this way. In fact, it has famously ended in tears in their past on multiple occasions. but that's how they want to go racing. They want to give both their drivers an equal opportunity, and if you think about it on paper, Lando came into this year, Lando should have come into this year with that advantage if that was the way McLaren was going to go racing. He was the established guy.
17:56James Hinchcliffe:He had a credible run in the second half of last year. Oscar was just coming into his third season, all these things. If you were going to do that, this was actually the perfect time to do it this year. Just because he won the championship, you look at what Oscar did this year, the growth that he had as a driver from year two to year three, and you'd be foolish to put your weight behind one or the other. Had they done this mid-season when everybody said they should have backed Oscar, they wouldn't have won. Had they not had the rules that they did and thought it was the right thing to give Lando the position back in Monza, they wouldn't have won.
18:29James Hinchcliffe:You can't criticize how they've done it because at the end of the day, it worked. Just. Just.
18:35Jolyon Palmer:Imagine if it hadn't, Hinge. so on the grid today genuinely the the feeling of nerves and pressure that i've already spoken about i thought for the team if mclaren don't win this how are they gonna deal with this loss because you did feel as a team it's been so commendable the way that they've let their drivers fight it's given us a show for most of the season and if they had have backed one on the other it obviously would have swung that way and it would have changed the dynamic within the team and then you'd have ended this race with a very different feeling. And I know Oscar will be disappointed, but I think he can at least say, I gave him a best shot, in the end it wasn't to be, and he can come back next year and keep pushing again.
19:18Jolyon Palmer:And I think the first third of next year will be so critical. I think if Lando comes back, shoulders back, world champion, and dominates in the first third of a new regs, you feel like the shift will go behind the champion. but if Oscar, he's only got three years, if he learns again for the fourth year, first time in a title fight, if he can find that next level and it's not a huge level, then he can put the pressure straight back on Lando and the team will galvanise behind him. I think he's shown enough that he's a worthy champion if it had been him today anyway. How much do you think Lando will change as a driver with this accolade, with being world champion and the confidence that gives you?
19:58Jolyon Palmer:I mean, I would say I think it would help him with pressure but he's actually shown this weekend he's capable of dealing with with pressure pretty well anyway you saw with max this this weekend and the whole running the relaxed nature of him has been it's been remarkable for someone in this arena of a sporting contest and that's the guy that's won four titles so if you have a world title you know how to do it you've done it before a lot of the questions and you spoke about how lando conducts himself and his openness he can now say stuff you I'm a champion. I'll do it my way and I've proven it now.
20:32Jolyon Palmer:So when you haven't got that championship, people can question the mentality and should you do this, should you do that. Now he's a champion. You say, I've proven I can. So leave me to do it my way. That's it, mate. You are world champion. World champion. What a man, I'm so proud. We've spoken quite a lot about Lando's entourage, how he's changed it mid-season, but there's one person who's been with him throughout. He's been his race engineer since 2019. And that is Will Joseph, who I caught up with earlier. Will, what a day. What a season for you and Lando. First of all, how emotional are you?
21:12I'm not as emotional as I thought I would be. And I think I said this last year when we won the constructors and it took me, like, I had to re-watch the race to really get emotional. Like, a lot of emotion has come from seeing how happy other people are and emotional other people are. like my wife's been in tears because of everything like we've we've given and sacrificed for it and uh seeing other people's happiness and emotion i think is what drives my emotion but i think when i watch it again on monday night or tuesday night that's when it all really hits and were there any nervous moments in that race i mean were you actually expecting red bull to make your lives a little bit harder i think so i think we had talked about what they possibly might might might do um we i think we covered off all eventualities we sort of thought about i think everything um but actually i think when oscar got past us in the very beginning actually it opened up a different race for us which we talked about and i think that in itself gave lando a bit of peace of mind actually i think it was quite relaxing for that to happen we knew that oscar could then go and attack max uh and with lando all we had to worry about is is charles and um and uh george behind were there any genuine nervous moments for you like were there any technical issues with the car that might have reared their head or was it all completely cool i honestly think it was all completely cool i think you know inevitably um you always start worrying about the what ifs the you know all the things but actually everyone was really cool and really composed and and worried about their own thing and and we just got on with it so to be honest no there's always that sort of end of race safety car what do you do like are you going to give up a position for a new tire type thing and that always is a little bit stressful but actually again we talk about those things you know a lot of people don't like the fact that we discuss those things so openly with Lando or with Oscar but I think it's the right thing to do when we prepared it well look what about Lando then is this his best season in Formula One first of all I mean I I think so.
23:17I think, you know, I remember a conversation after Australia with Andrea and we talked about, you know, the success of Australia and what that now meant. And then obviously we had a bit of a sort of difficult period. And then I think the best thing about this year with Lando has been how he's been able to stay strong and I guess adapt to being not the leader and being able to come from behind type thing. I think that showed real mental resilience, real maturity. And that's probably, I think, where we've seen the best of Lando. His driving's always been fast and amazing, but to have that mental resilience, I think, has been really important.
23:59He told the media a little earlier this evening that he made some changes to his own sort of entourage mid-season. Did you see an immediate change around Zandvoort time? So there's a group of people that are very close around Lando. and all of those people know who they are and they know how important they've been in this. It's been really important that he's had a strong group of people around him and they've all supported him and we've all been a part of that journey. I think it's been great to see how people have rallied around him and been strong and how he's used other people's confidence and other people's opinion and information to be strong and stay strong.
24:42So, yeah, I think so. I think it's been, yeah, since Zandvoort. You know, after Zandvoort, I think we all sort of went, wow, you know, how would we go from here? But we talked about it and we all stayed strong and we've recovered from that. Did Lando and you ever lose your belief after Zandvoort? 34 points behind, were you thinking, we might have to wait till next year now? I mean, I can't speak for Lando. There was certainly an element of me where I was having to think, you know how am I going to deal with not winning the championship at the end of the year how am I going to rally the engineers around Lando as we face that so yeah I mean there's certainly things but I think by reflecting on those things and thinking about those things you kind of address your fears and your worries and you actually sort of discuss them and you come back stronger because of it what do you think was Lando's best race this year I mean Mexico is the one where he won by 30 seconds that that looks like a headline but was there perhaps another race where he didn't win it by such a margin but you were seriously impressed by him to be honest i i couldn't give you a fair answer right now i think i'm um so sort of in the moment right now that i can't look back and think i think there's been many impressive races i think you're right it's not just when we've dominated it's when we've been resilient and that resilience i think has been important this year because you know we had a time where oscar was on a charge then we've had a period where max has been on a charge and through both of those periods we've been able to just chip away at it keep going and stay strong we knew what we had to achieve and we've just gone out and achieved that we haven't tried to overachieve and we haven't hopefully you know let things slip beneath us so so yeah and how do you think winning the title will help lando going forward it's such a confidence game this isn't it do you think we might see him kick on to another level i think so i think you know after miami when we won the first race i think we saw a bit bit of that you know the the pressure came off and that can i ever do it type approach um came across but i think that was fine uh and then um yeah i think the sort of potential hardships of this year have meant that land has been this stronger person now we can put that championship under the belt and we can come into next year knowing that we've got strong competitors both other teams and we really don't know what other teams are going to be like next year the rule change is so massive that we genuinely have no idea but also within our team you know Oscar's a fantastic driver and he's demonstrated this year how strong he can be but I think we can go into it relaxed knowing that we can achieve it knowing that we're in the mental space to achieve it and and we'll just kick on you know things start on tuesday well i was gonna ask you right so you're you're staying out for the test i'm not okay because well lando is meant to be driving lando is and he told us earlier he said oh i might not be i might not be in the best shape on tuesdays but i mean because he's gonna have a damn good party and so he should rightly so i think um tuesday is about learning about 2026 tyres and from that we can go back to the factory and we can talk about how they're different and what that means for our winter programme so it's important for us to get a head start on next year with a good start on Tuesday the life of Formula 1 means it doesn't stop and 2026 starts in what, 36 hours time?
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28:18It is relentless but enjoy the party very well done from all of us Thank you very much, I appreciate it
28:27If there's one thing Formula One proves, it's that progress comes from people who are willing to push the limits. And history is full of them. The inventors, engineers, leaders and outsiders who change the game through bold ideas, nerve and moments of brilliance. That's what the podcast Short History Of is all about. Each vividly immersive episode delves into one remarkable subject from world history. from revolutionary people and world-changing inventions to defining events that still shape our lives today. So if you love innovation, ambition and stories about what happens when people go all in, give Short History Of a listen.
29:12Search for Short History Of wherever you get your podcasts.
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30:00Let's talk a little more now about the other side of the garage then. Oscar Piastri finishes the race P2, finishes the championship in third. Those 13 points behind his world champion teammate. Let's get his reaction, first of all, after the race. I would have wished for a slightly different ending, But I think this year I've learned a hell of a lot about myself as a race car driver, myself as a person. If I had presented this season at the start of the year with the pole positions and the wins and the podiums, I definitely would have been pretty happy with that.
30:36Jolyon Palmer:And I think even in the tough moments, I've learned a lot about myself and how I can be stronger in the future with that. So I think ultimately there's a little bit of disappointment, obviously, but I think I can be very, very proud of the season I've had and plenty of lessons to take to the future. Oscar has led this championship longer than any other driver this year. Regrets. I mean, you say it's only his third season. I get that, JP, but there must be a regret in there, surely. It's the run through the Americas, isn't it? I mean, Baku was obviously a clangor of a weekend. Lots of kind of basic mistakes for a championship contender, like jumping the start.
31:18Jolyon Palmer:But if you pinpoint, I mean, it's a phase of three races, particularly. Austin, Mexico, Brazil. Brazil was a big points loss because you got the sprint as well where he dropped in the barriers. His confidence was going. He felt like the championship was slipping him by at that point. and I think he'll look back and think, how could I have just not seeped all those points there? Because he had things in his hands. We spoke in the summer break before Zambor and I got in trouble from Lando from it for saying Oscar was unlucky not to be well ahead in the championship. He was driving that well and he just couldn't maintain that for the whole season.
32:00Jolyon Palmer:And he'll look back and just have to study what exactly went wrong in those few races because he's shown in the last two this is back to his usual form. I mean, it's an interesting thing, right? We're at race 24. And for those of us who have done all 24 races, it's pretty draining. How much of a step up is it for Oscar? You know, I asked him, you know, when you were winning championships in F2 and F3, how different is this? And he made the point that he was only doing 10 races then. He's now doing 24. The sort of longevity of the season, is is that actually one of the reasons he had his wobble in the americas do you think because he just hadn't worked out in his head how to to be consistent over such a long period
32:46James Hinchcliffe:that could play into it but he's he's done two seasons you know you learn from that already um you know if you were to ask or or kind of go back and look at the catalog of interviews with andrea stella over that stretch in the americas that jolian mentioned i'll throw vegas in there as well he'll say that the mclaren needed to be driven a certain way to get the lap time in low grip conditions and you've got austin you've got vegas you've got mexico low grip tracks brazil he would have been much higher in brazil had it not been for the penalty which most drivers didn't agree with anyway so kind of take that one aside hey can i interrupt you here all this low grip surface stuff about oscar he's bloody good in the wet so can you explain to me yeah explain to me how he can be so good in the wet and yet everyone says he struggles on low grip surfaces all right so put it in layman's terms for me jillian i were having this discussion earlier and i think the the difference is the the mclaren needed to be driven a certain way to get the lap time in low grip dry conditions a wet racetrack is just it's so monumentally different the the the realm of grip that we're discussing the driving style you know regardless of the car it's just completely different.
34:01James Hinchcliffe:But in the dry, in the wet, your brain switches to wet mode. You know what you have to do in the wet. I think the challenge with these low grip dry conditions is you see that the track's dry, your brain goes to your default dry driving style. But for whatever reason, this particular car had to be driven a particular way that was somewhat unnatural to Oscar to get that lap time in those conditions. So at the end of the day, I think it looked worse because they were all clustered together in one part of the championship. If you pepper them throughout the year, it doesn't look like that America stretch was so devastating.
34:38James Hinchcliffe:But at the end of the day, those tracks are on the calendar. There are low grip tracks on the calendar. If he wants to be a world champion, he's going to have to figure out how to deal with, again, next year, this might be all moot because the new car has a completely different, you know, characteristic that doesn't require this driving style but for this year to be the guy he had to figure that out and he just didn't get on top of it to the level that lando was able to but credit where it's due he made a massive jump last winter season two into season three didn't he and i think that's the encouragement
35:09Jolyon Palmer:for him is that we are seeing big steps from him he's still he's still only enough three years in formula one and he's already fought for a title he can do it again i don't know if i if i think it's the full explanation is the low grip surface because you think back to like canada and he was comfortably ahead of lando he won in baku last year he had a miserable time this year i know the cars changed but it can't be like night and day from a guy that can win the race with an amazing drive last year in baku to now looking like he's struggling so badly i think it's this
35:43James Hinchcliffe:car something about this year's car to get the light because because i mean you say canada lando was absolutely hounding him at the end. The reason he drove into the back of him is because he was so much faster in the race. Lando was quicker in the Grand Prix. So something unique about this year's car, I think kind of made the difference. Throwing it forward to 26, there is going to be less downforce on the cars. There's not a direct correlation then that Oscar's going to struggle because there's less grip. No, for sure. It's specific to the MCL 39. When I read between the lines of what andrea stella says in these interviews after those races you kind of get the sense it is just something super specific that either lando figured out or just naturally did and oscar struggled but it's all perspective isn't at the end of the day if you were to have told oscar in australia you're going to win seven races and be third in the driver's championship off the back of your previous season where you had two wins in fifth or sixth whatever he was or you tell you're going to lead the championship for 15 races and you're not going to win it one of those scenarios sounds pretty good one of them sounds a lot worse and so for oscar i think what's important is to make sure that his perspective on 2025 is the positive one and then he can hopefully continue that growth trajectory was the word that you use in the post show which i think is perfect look how much of a reset does he need because i don't want to you guys but we've got 90 days until the australian grand prix it is a very short winter and in those 90 days we've got the new cars we've got three test sessions there's not a lot of downtime for these guys is is that a good thing or a bad thing for a piastri uh i don't know if it's a good thing
37:24Jolyon Palmer:for many people to be honest yeah i need my christmas please tc um i mean it's it's exciting isn't it to to get going again off the back of not winning the title to think right let's let's go again and dial it in personally i think everyone's going to need a little bit of time in december i know we get going again in january but you need some time just to just to rest and recoup gather your thoughts and then have the reset and go again for uh for next year and then honestly the new regs provide an opportunity for every single driver in the field to turn weaknesses into strengths once again and to discover maybe completely new driving styles that no one's ever needed before.
38:05Jolyon Palmer:So it's such a reset. At least, again, we spoke about London's confidence into next year. Oscar's not champion, but from 2024 to 2025, he can stride in as a championship contender and someone that's finished at least third and won so many Grand Prix now.
38:26He came roaring back, but the comeback of all comebacks will fall short. Max Verstappen wins the Abu Dhabi Grand Prix. We showed that one final time he's passed. Don't be disappointed. I'm definitely not disappointed. I'm really proud of everyone to never give up. Now, who was the guy who was 104 points behind Oscar Piastri after the Dutch Grand Prix at Zandvoort? It was Max Verstappen. He won the Abu Dhabi Grand Prix, his eighth win of the season, his 71st. Can you believe it already? His 71st win in Formula One. He's a bit of a king around here, isn't he? This was his fifth win. How impressed were you guys by...
39:12I mean, you've touched on how cool and calm he was this weekend, but just the race itself. Were you impressed? Do you think he maybe could have done more? I think Red Bull should have done more.
39:22Jolyon Palmer:I wasn't impressed with the way that they tried to win the title. I was impressed with the way they tried to win the race, but the title's more than the race. So here's a question for you both. When you turned up for work today, did you think Max would just disappear off and we'd have such a routine race? So did you think this is going to be chaos? No, because you convinced me that he was going to back the whole field up into each other
39:45James Hinchcliffe:and it was going to be a barnstormer. Well, I'm on that page as well. I was like, where were you, Max? Why didn't you back up? But I guess that got complicated at turn nine on the opening lap when Oscar Piastri went around the outside of his teammate. Because then if you're backing Oscar up, he's just going to overtake you, right? It's a risk. It's a risk.
40:05Jolyon Palmer:So I agree that made life harder. but do you not take a risk of maybe not winning the Grand Prix to have a better chance of winning a title? And I was surprised that Red Bull didn't try anything in the race. I mean, I was thinking, I mean, I convinced Hinch, hook, line and sinker that this was going to be some level of humdinger of a race because I was thinking last night, Checo in 2021 did a lap five seconds off the pace and kept Lewis behind. He cost Lewis eight seconds in less than two laps. He was on shod tyres against Lewis who was way quicker. Max is a driver that I respect at the highest ability that I think would be able to back off a second per lap quite comfortably in the final sector and not be overtaken maybe be risked of being overtaken but I think he's got the skill set to do that and probably keep track position or someone has to make a big risky move to make it work and so I just thought if he does that from the off and he backs one McLaren into the other one into Charles Leclerc or George Russell what level of nightmare is that for a guy that wants to win the championship by staying on the podium you've now got a Ferrari nipping at his heels which was the case even though he wasn't backed up you've got George Russell there secondly I wondered do they put Yuki on a soft tyre to start pit him early and send him into like some crazy undercut range with Max then backing everyone in does Alonso then pit and cover off Yuki does Hajar go in there and all of these sort of midfielders threatened to do some massive undercut on all of the top guys.
41:39Jolyon Palmer:All of these would have put massive risk on Max winning the race, which obviously was 101 of what he had to do to fight for the title, really. But to win the championship, they needed to throw some risk on McLaren. And I think McLaren should almost go and thank Red Bull that they played it so fair today because I don't think anyone really expected Max not to try it. Even Oscar in the cool-down room said, you didn't fancy backing the pack up then? It seemed like it had to be the way.
42:07James Hinchcliffe:Just funny, because that comment from Piastri tells you how deep the conversations got at McLaren last night, thinking about all the possibilities.
42:14Jolyon Palmer:Well, so George Russell was sure that something was going to happen. Remember, he was also sure that Max would give him a toe in qualifying, but that didn't happen either. And I've heard the various stories of other midfield drivers thinking, this is going to be popcorn time, and we can actually have a chance to be that guy to fight for the podium. Right. I've got a question for you two. If Christian Horner was still running Red Bull, what do you reckon? I think it might have been different. And I've had that thought since the race because Red Bull also seemed to me to be the happiest losers of the championship that I can remember in a title fight.
42:51Jolyon Palmer:To be fair, they've had a phenomenal second half of the year. And they won the race and they won it comfortably and they did so much right. So there's a lot of reasons they can be happy. I think Lauren Mechies has come in and done an astonishingly good job. Max has led the team. I don't want to be too negative because the way that they've even made this championship a fight has been phenomenal. But it didn't look like... GP maybe looked like he was feeling the pain of not winning on the pit wall. Horner was Mr. Jeopardy, wasn't he? He was Mr. Push everything to the absolute limit and over the limit if you possibly can.
43:25Jolyon Palmer:but we will fight for every single thing we can we can scrap for today i thought red bull executed a nice race if you want to win the race but i didn't think they executed the best race if they
43:35James Hinchcliffe:want to win the championship what's interesting is that interview with verstappen last week he said we're only in this position not even so much from our successes but from other people's failures and it really seems like today they embodied that belief we're going to go win the race and do our thing they left it up to mclaren to beat themselves the exact thing zach brown said if max wins fine as long as he beats us and we don't beat ourselves after vegas and qatar that interview didn't age particularly well and it was looking a little precarious but it really does seem like red bull raced their race took that philosophy of we can't control the others let's do what we can do and let mclaren either bottle up the strategy lando buckle under the pressure and it didn't happen.
44:20Jolyon Palmer:But they didn't force any pressure, though. So as Oscar took his only pit stop, if Max had pitted as well at the same time, I mean, I've already spoken about the start of the race, some skullduggery that could have happened. But even at the end of the race, you've got, I don't know, what was it, lap 40 or something? So you've got 18 or so laps to go. So Max could pit on a fresh set of mediums, the same as Oscar, cover him off. You've then got four seconds back to Lando. You've then got four seconds back to Charles. It's still within the realm of possibility. The gaps aren't ridiculous at that stage.
44:50Jolyon Palmer:To Russell, they are a lot bigger. So maybe if George was closer, they would have tried harder and seeing that gap being so big. I'm going to come down in defence of Red Bull here. I think they looked at the pace of Ferrari and the pace of Mercedes and I think they thought they didn't quite have enough to cause Lando the problems that they needed. So you don't think Charles had enough? I think Ferrari had a remarkable turnaround from Quali to the race, but I don't think he did, no. But Charles alone's not enough.
45:19James Hinchcliffe:You need Russell as well because Oscar could have just swapped positions. And so even if Charles gets Lando, Oscar pulls over, both go by. Lando's still on the podium and wins a championship. You needed a second car. And I don't know if there were – I haven't heard anything from George. I don't know if he did have some sort of brake problems. We heard that radio transmission early in the race. And we just never saw anything close to the pace of the top four.
45:40Jolyon Palmer:And you don't think it's worth a try to get Charles nipping at Lando's heels? not worth a try to risk a race for anything happening charl locks up jp i think you make a really valid point but let's hear from the man himself now this is what max verstappen said after the race i have no regrets of my my season i think the performance has been strong i've hated this car at times but i've also loved it at times and i always try to extract the most of it even in the difficult weekends that we have had but luckily the last i would say eight nine rounds in general have been a lot more enjoyable and also in the team you know we yeah we have a great atmosphere at the moment we really on a roll positive energy belief confidence and that's exactly what you want also heading into into next year i'm sitting here now with probably a better feeling than what i had last year at this time because uh yeah the second half of last year was pretty pretty tricky at times as well um so you know we have been struggling for i would say a year you know the second half of last year in the first half of this year but i actually yeah feel a lot better now um of course shame to miss out on the title but at the same time um for a long period of time i was not even thinking about the title i never felt like i was in it until a few rounds ago you know so that's pretty crazy but i'm happy with myself and also into next year I'm not in a state of having to worry about my skills or whatever.
47:09So, yeah, I feel good. So that's our race winner, our man who's finished P2 in the World Championship. Just those two points behind Lando Norris. I am fascinated by that comment saying he feels better now, having finished P2, than he did last year when he won the World Championship. Is this Max's best ever season in Formula One? I think so.
47:33James Hinchcliffe:There's a strong case for it, a strong argument for it. And remember, this time last year, he was on the decline. McLaren was on the ascension. So, yeah, he was the champion. But you could almost see why after this race he was not as happy because this year was very much the opposite.
47:46Jolyon Palmer:And we were trying to pick the bones of the top three before the weekend of where things have gone wrong, luck, mistakes, errors, anything else, where they've left points on the table. It's really tricky for Max. Obviously, he got unlucky in Austria with Kimi Antonelli wiping him out. And then you're really picking the bones out of not very much apart from Barcelona, where obviously he lost his head and lost a load of points. So it does show the season he's had. But as I asked the question, is this his best ever year? It's tough because there's some pretty unbelievable years to pick from, isn't there?
48:22I mean, isn't the key to this one that he hasn't always had the best car and the turnaround and the way he's led that team with the management change after Silverstone. All of that I put into why I think this has been his best season, not just what he's done on the racetrack itself, which has been phenomenal.
48:40Jolyon Palmer:And I think that is the point, isn't it? The management change. And he's stepped up as the leader of the team, hasn't he? Even on the radio after the race, just it's impressive. And his level of performance hasn't dropped. Max also said after the race that the atmosphere inside the team is extremely positive. as if he feels there's a lot of positive momentum there as well. He actually couldn't be more positive about Red Bull racing if he tried. And yet, you know, cast your minds back six months and there was all that speculation about is he going to go to Mercedes. Of course, he's locked in for Red Bull for 26.
49:16We've got the rule changes coming. Where do you guys think he's at in terms of his commitment to Red Bull? Do you think he's still looking elsewhere? where what's he going to be thinking about when he's not in a GT3 car over the winter?
49:30James Hinchcliffe:I mean, I think if you look at the comeback that they've had, I mean, this was a huge team effort, right? This was a tremendous amount of effort from the entire team, every department, led in a lot of ways by Max. We've heard how there was sort of a philosophical change in the team to maybe trust simulations a little less and the driver a little more. And if that's true, the driver is the best sensor in the car, and he's clearly operating at a very high level, I think that will have kind of reinvigorated him and motivated him to stay put because he's shown the kind of comeback they can have. So even if 2026 starts off a little rough, the group knows that together they can still improve a program drastically.
50:11Jolyon Palmer:I don't know. I feel like he's got a lot of personal pride at the moment, but if the car's not good next year, they're changing to Ford power units, whole new regs. The Red Bull have developed their way a long way to the end of this year as well. Is that going to come at any cost next year? I still feel like if it's not competitive and let's say a Mercedes has built a great power unit, got the car back to pre this set of regs sort of domination, I still think he can be off. But it's less obvious than it was in the summer, let's say that at least. It's been a hell of a weekend. It's been a hell of a season, hasn't it, guys?
50:49I mean, you know how we always end these by saying who's your driver of the race. I mean, let's do that, but I also want a driver of the season from both of you. Let's start by giving our driver of the day, our driver of the race.
51:02James Hinchcliffe:I think you've got to give it to Max. You know, he did what he had to do. He's been the driver of the weekend, really. I mean, he didn't lead a session until Q3, but that's the only important one to lead, really, up to that point. Dominated the race pretty convincingly, so he's got to be the driver of the day for me.
51:18Jolyon Palmer:It's so hard to pick on this one, to be honest. I'm going to just give it to Lando because he's won the championship and he's been the one that's been hauling around the pressure this weekend. The others have had nothing to lose and I know he didn't even beat Oscar today but the way that he executed the bits that he had to do, he did enough. He carved through the traffic, two overtakes in one. So I give it to Lando, driver of the day, because of the pressure. I agree with both of you, incredibly strong performances but I'm actually going to give it to Charles Leclerc. I love what that guy does in that Ferrari he's just been phenomenal just look at the difference between him and Lewis Hamilton at the moment it's extraordinary you're going to tease us with some driver market for 2027 speaking of where Max is going to go if Max leaves I think Laurent Mechies will be on the telephone to Charles Leclerc very quickly of course they worked together didn't they at Ferrari back in the day but Charles has been excellent right he drags one lap out of that car and then quite what they did overnight between qualifying and the race.
52:21How that car came alive in that 58-lap Grand Prix, and Charles maximized it. So well done to him. Driver of the year.
52:31James Hinchcliffe:Again, it's such a tough one. There's such a good case for each of the top three. There's a great case for George Russell. I mean, you talk about looking back and looking at Max's season for points, loss, and mistakes made. it's almost a little easier with the two McLaren drivers. It's hard with Max. It's hard with George as well. The car didn't have the pace of the top two cars, but he pulled out some really great results. The two opportunities they had to win races, he executed on those and didn't miss a beat. It's a tough one, man. It's been one of the hardest-fought seasons of F1 I've ever seen.
53:06James Hinchcliffe:We never sit on the fence in this podcast.
53:08Jolyon Palmer:That's a lot of words, but not an answer.
53:10James Hinchcliffe:Well, then, look, then you've got to give it to Lando. He came in with the expectation, the weight on his shoulders. He had a massive dip in performance. He pulled himself out of that dip, which is arguably the hardest thing to do. Should have had it locked up before the last race, be it not for a disqualification in Vegas or you want to go back to the mechanical failure in Zandvoort. Bad luck aside of strategy calls, steward calls, driving mistakes. Every driver has those over a 24-race season. Lando had these two instances that were kind of anomalies that you don't normally see. DQs, mechanical DNFs Those lock it up for him It put him in a situation where he had to deal with a title decider Worth of pressure, and he pulled it off So for me, you've got to give it to the champ
53:51Jolyon Palmer:So instead of Russell I'd also add in that I think Leclerc has been amazing on top of that As the whole season, his numbers have been brilliant But it's got to be Max, hasn't it? To be two points away from the title With the year that he's had I think on an individual basis Verstappen's year has been the strongest What do you reckon, TC? I agree with you Barcelona aside, it's hard to fault him. Couple more. Rookie of the year. I would go Isaac Hadjar. Just consistency of performance, getting a podium as a rookie in a racing bulls is exceptional. Some of his sixth places have been great as well in Monaco.
54:29Jolyon Palmer:To rock up and be right up towards the middle of the top ten was pretty incredible. Hadjar?
54:35James Hinchcliffe:Again, for me, so close. Hadjar had an incredible season especially when you consider how it started or didn't in Australia but for me I'm just going to give it to Behrman because the difference being that Racing Bull seems like a pretty solid car and after race two Hadjar was only racing another rookie in Liam Lawson who also had some pretty good performances, a bunch of Q3s, a bunch of point scoring days he was never yardsticked against, for example, a race winner, which is what Ollie Bearman had. He won the qualifying head-to-head. He beat him in points. He had a fourth place in Mexico in a Haas, which I think is as impressive as a third place in a Racing Bulls.
55:20James Hinchcliffe:But again, the competition across the other side of the garage, I think for me is what just puts him slightly ahead of Hadjar, who again, had an absolutely ridiculous rookie season. Top 10 in the points as a rookie. Unreal. I'll go with Hadjar. All this chat of the racing bulls. Please, when we're at the test on Tuesday, can Max Verstappen just do a lap in the racing bulls? I would love it. Come on, please, Max. I want to know just what the ultimate potential of that car is. But you have to say Hadjar has done a phenomenal year. This time last year, he didn't even know he was in Formula One. Behrman at least had a bit of experience last year.
56:02You know, he'd been thrown in at the deep end with Ferrari. I don't want to take anything away from him. And that run of, what was it, five consecutive points finishes with Behrman and that fourth in Mexico that you mentioned was great. But just, I feel Hadjar's gone from not winning in Formula 2 to getting a race drive with Red Bull Racing in the space of 12 months. And he's a ferocious competitor. I do like that about him. He's so hard on himself. He's Mr. Grumpy Pants, really.
56:28Jolyon Palmer:I wonder how that's going to go down at Red Bull. If you consider how hard he is on himself when he's doing a really good job, ostensibly against Liam Lawson. Now he's got Max as his teammate. So that pressure and everything is going to go up. All right, look, final one is F1 TV pundit of the year. It's Hinch. It's Hinch. TC, I've had a good year. I've had a good year, but when I've been called up by Lando in the interviews in front of the whole world, I've let myself down. And you're now a future steward as well. It's amazing. Be a good TV pundit with F1 TV, mate. You can become a steward in Formula One.
57:00There you go. Sky's the limit.
57:01James Hinchcliffe:Sky's the last quite for me. It's JP. called out in a press conference by Carlos Sainz, backed up by other drivers. These guys know what they're talking about. They call these incidents correctly and nominated unofficially for a permanent steward's role. How can you beat that? We can't agree on anything, can we? Not one, not one. And it makes for a great podcast. Guys, I've loved having you on the show this year. Thank you both very, very much. It's great to get your opinions. And have a brilliant winter. And let's do it all again next year. Cheers, TC. Thanks for having us.
58:02I hope you've enjoyed listening from all of us. And we can't wait to do it all again in 2026 for a very exciting new era of Formula One. Melbourne is just 90 days away. F1 Nation is produced by Formula One and Audioboom Studio. Amanda, this is Zach from McLaren. Is this the world champion hotline? You did it! You did it! What's up? He got knocked down. He got back up. He climbs from the car as the new world champion.
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From the publisher
He was 34 points adrift after round 15, so how did Lando complete such an incredible comeback in this title fight? Has he broken the mould in terms of what we imagine a World Champion to be like? And how will being champion change Lando?
You’ll hear reaction from the man himself, as he talks about turning his ‘struggles into strengths’ and winning this title 'the Lando way’. His race engineer Will Joseph also joins the pod to discuss how they overcame a challenging first half of the season and where they go from here.
On the other side of the garage, Oscar Piastri came home in P2 but fell short of the title by 13 points. Why did Oscar lose out after leading the championship for most of the season? What does he need to work on to take the next step? And is there a chance that Oscar will become second favourite at McLaren now that Lando has a title to his name?
Max Verstappen won the Abu Dhabi Grand Prix for his eighth race win of the season, but misses out on what would have been a fifth title in a row by just two points. Could Max and Red Bull have done anything differently to put more pressure on McLaren in this race? Has this been Max’s best season in Formula 1? And will Red Bull’s transformation in the second half of the year give Max more reason to commit his long-term future to the team?
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