Minneapolis Federal Reserve President Neel Kashkari, Dr. Mehmet Oz, Rep. Byron Donalds, Rep. Seth Moulton

23 Aug 2026 · 45 min · 23 chapters

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In short

Face the Nation covers (1) U.S. economic uncertainty tied to high Treasury yields and record debt, (2) health-care cost pressures and drug pricing, (3) food safety/recalls and FDA leadership, and (4) political fights over vaccines and immigration, plus a Democratic primary challenge.

Guests (backgrounds)

  • Neel Kashkari: President and CEO, Federal Reserve Bank of Minneapolis.
  • Dr. Mehmet Oz: Administrator, Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services (CMS).
  • Dr. Scott Gottlieb: Former FDA Commissioner; board member of Pfizer and UnitedHealth.
  • Byron Donalds: Florida Republican Congressman; GOP gubernatorial nominee.
  • Seth Moulton: Democratic Congressman (Massachusetts), challenging Sen. Ed Markey.

Key claims + notable examples

  • Kashkari: Treasury yields reflect inflation outlook, borrowing, growth/productivity; no Treasury market dysfunction; Fed focuses on inflation, not fiscal debt management; longer Iran conflict and Canada tariff back-and-forth could prolong inflation.
  • Oz: Drug prices are falling fastest in 63 years; attributes to “most favored nation” pricing and TrumpRx.gov; cites GLP-1s at $50/month for eligible Medicare beneficiaries (down from $1,000+); claims Medicare fraud reduction ($42B) and expanding patient access to records (5% to 50%).
  • Gottlieb: mRNA cancer “vaccine” is immunotherapy to train T cells; recalls aren’t the best FDA performance metric; supports Dr. Heidi Overton as a policy-focused FDA nominee.
  • Donalds: Wants to keep vaccine mandates flexible (polio/MMR under review) and emphasizes health-care costs via price transparency; links measles outbreaks to illegal immigration; supports ending Haiti TPS as temporary.
  • Moulton: Mentioned as launching a primary challenge to oust a senator from his own party (details cut off in transcript).

Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.

Chapters

Tap a time to open that second in VO

Economic Overview

0:59 to 2:19

An overview of the current state of the U.S. economy amid rising debts and inflation.

“instead of just pointing at the menu and hoping for the best.”

Economic Overview

4:11 to 4:50

An overview of the current state of the U.S. economy amid rising debts and inflation.

“Good morning and welcome to Face the Nation.”

Interview with Neel Kashkari

4:50 to 6:46

Neel Kashkari discusses U.S. Treasury yields and inflation dynamics.

“President and CEO of the Federal Reserve Bank of Minneapolis.”

Market Concerns and Predictions

6:46 to 11:21

Discussion on market shifts, debt strategies, and the impacts of geopolitical events on inflation.

“And I appreciate you as a central banker, you want to get involved in fiscal policy or what the markets are doing day to day.”

Trade Tensions and Inflation

11:21 to 13:18

Kashkari explores trade tensions with Canada and their inflationary effects.

“For five years, we've been saying inflation is going to return to target in the next year or two.”

Trade Tensions and Inflation

13:30 to 14:18

Kashkari explores trade tensions with Canada and their inflationary effects.

“Matching outfits, extravagant birthdays, many nicknames, a few classic moves of a dog-obsessed parent.”

Healthcare Costs and Drug Pricing

15:05 to 17:09

Explore the projected rise in healthcare costs and drug price drops.

“It is unquestionable here that health care costs are projected to rise in 2027, and this is a top concern.”

Impact of Most Favored Nation Pricing

17:10 to 19:10

Understand the implementation of most favored nation pricing in drug costs.

“What we want is better prices for the American people, and we got it.”

Medicare and Drug Accessibility

19:11 to 21:11

Discuss the accessibility of drugs for Medicare beneficiaries.

“The risks of the IRA, which is the law that drove this, is that it'll coerce companies to do things they don't want to do, so they'll just stop innovating.”

Addressing Medicare's Financial Challenges

21:12 to 23:21

Learn about Medicare's financial issues and the plan to reduce fraud.

“The insolvency of the Medicare trust fund, which is going to happen in six to seven years, it'll last twice as long.”
Show all 23 chapters

Vaccination Debate and Parental Choice

23:22 to 25:43

Delve into the discussion on vaccination choices for children.

“But let me ask you about something else, and that's keeping people healthy.”

Vaccination Debate and Parental Choice

26:40 to 27:29

Delve into the discussion on vaccination choices for children.

“Imagine you finally have a free day out on the town.”

mRNA Therapeutic Breakthrough

28:45 to 29:56

Discussion about an experimental mRNA cancer vaccine and its implications.

“that allows people with high-risk melanoma to live longer.”

Technical Difficulties

29:56 to 30:21

Hosts address technical issues during the discussion with Dr. Gottlieb.

“Let me take a quick commercial break and let's see if we can get this fixed so all of us can hear each other.”

HHS and mRNA Vaccines

30:21 to 31:40

Exploration of HHS's comments on mRNA vaccine funding and its relevance to cancer treatment.

“We have been having some technical issues, But I believe we can now once again hear Dr.”

FDA's Role and Challenges

31:40 to 33:47

Discussion on FDA's effectiveness in managing foodborne outbreaks and challenges faced.

“This is training the immune system to identify cancer to prevent recurrence.”

Dr. Heidi Overton's Nomination

33:47 to 35:47

Insights on the nomination of Dr. Heidi Overton and the challenges she may face.

“And as he put it, her active role in the nonsensical vaccine executive order makes him question her commitment to standing up for science and children's health.”

Expectations for Confirmation Hearings

35:47 to 37:30

Discussion about the potential challenges Dr. Overton will face during her confirmation.

“to evidence some mixed messaging around vaccines.”

Byron Donalds on Vaccine Policies

38:07 to 40:08

Rep. Byron Donalds discusses his stance on vaccine mandates and health policy in Florida.

“We go now to Florida Republican Congressman Byron Donalds.”

Affordable Care Act Critique

40:08 to 42:00

Donalds critiques the Affordable Care Act and its impact on healthcare costs in Florida.

“Deductibles out of control for the last 15 years.”

Healthcare Costs and Immigration Policies

42:00 to 47:02

A discussion on the impact of healthcare costs and legal immigration on Florida's economy.

“That's how you end up having some of these outbreaks.”

Congressman Seth Moulton's Challenge

47:02 to 48:50

Congressman Moulton discusses his primary challenge against Senator Markey and the need for generational change.

“Congressman Donalds, who is standing for gubernatorial race in November.”

Addressing Afghan Refugees and Immigration Reform

48:50 to 52:10

Moulton addresses the ongoing issues of Afghan refugees and the need for immigration reform.

“Congress to say Biden should not run again.”
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Transcript

Automatic transcript. May contain errors.

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2:28Margaret Brennan:I'm Margaret Brennan in Washington, and this week on Face the Nation, new warning signs for the U.S. economy and mounting costs for American families. As Washington prepares for race cars to speed down its streets today, many Americans are focused on a different pace, the struggle to keep up with the rising cost of living and a growing sense of economic uncertainty. And a new trade war this weekend with neighboring Canada, with the U.S. moving to raise tariffs on everything from building materials to hockey sticks and Canadian alcohol. That America is trying to break us so they can own us. Will prices be pushed even higher?

3:10Margaret Brennan:We'll discuss the outlook for the economy with Minneapolis Federal Reserve President Neal Kashkari. Then, another growing concern for Americans, the skyrocketing cost of health care. We'll hear from the Administrator of Medicare and Medicaid, Dr. Mehmet Oz. Former FDA Commissioner Dr. Scott Gottlieb will also join us to discuss the growing list of food recalls and outbreaks as President Trump makes a new pick to lead the Food and Drug Administration. Finally, Florida Congressman Byron Donalds, fresh off his win in the GOP gubernatorial primary, will join us. And we'll ask Democratic Congressman Seth Moulton of Massachusetts about his push to oust a senator from his own party.

3:54Margaret Brennan:It's all just ahead on Face the Nation.

4:11Margaret Brennan:Good morning and welcome to Face the Nation. Americans are waking up to an economy in uncharted territory. The country's debt hit a record$40 trillion last week, and fears of persistent inflation and uncertainty about the Iran war sent financial markets reeling, driving borrowing costs, including those for the U.S. government, to their highest levels in two decades. The Treasury Department intervened midweek to help, but by Friday, the relief had evaporated. For everyday Americans, higher yields benefit savers, but they make mortgages and other loans more expensive. For more on what's next for the American economy, we're joined by Neil Kashkari, President and CEO of the Federal Reserve Bank of Minneapolis.

4:56Margaret Brennan:Welcome back to Face the Nation. Thanks for having me, Margaret. Great to be with you. So when we spoke back in May, I asked you about the debt level America has. You said you didn't see an immediate crisis brewing, but at some point this is going to become a problem. We just hit$40 trillion. Are we at the point where this is a problem? Well, Margaret, if you look at the Treasury yields, yields are high, 4.7 percent, for example, on the 10-year Treasury. They're high relative to recent history. They're not high relative to longer American history. In the early 2000s, the 10-year treasury and the 30-year treasury were around these levels.

5:37In the 90s, they were meaningfully higher than they are now. And there's no sign of treasury market dysfunction or breaking down in financial markets. There are a lot of different factors that go into those treasury yields. Inflation and the outlook for inflation is one of those factors. That's the Fed's job. But there are many other factors, like it's the AI investment, government borrowing, economic growth. both, all of those end up going together to set these long-run Treasury yields.

6:03Margaret Brennan:But we saw this bond sell-off. We saw extraordinary action by the Treasury Secretary, Scott Besson, to intervene. He said what was happening was due to traders having bad information. Is that what's happening? Well, I'm going to leave it to the Treasury Secretary to manage the Treasury debt market. That's the job of the Treasury Department. The Fed's job is really to take care of the inflation piece of it. We are all absolutely committed to getting inflation back down to 2%. But long run, it's going to be fundamentals of debt issuance, of investment, of economic growth and productivity. Long run, that's what sets the Treasury yields, not just in the U.S., but government bond yields all around the world.

6:47Margaret Brennan:And I appreciate you as a central banker, you want to get involved in fiscal policy or what the markets are doing day to day. But there is this debate right now about whether something more fundamental is shifting. Investor Mohamed Al-Aryan wrote in the New York Times, there's a breathtaking leap in the cost of borrowing. If it persists, it could mark the beginning of a structural economic shift, more enduring and more globally consequential than most previous episodes of market volatility. Is that overstating things? Are we in the midst of a huge shift? Well, there are a lot of different factors going on at the same time.

7:26So the stock market, as you know, has been really bullish for the last several years, really excited about AI and the prospects that that will lead to productivity growth. You know, a more optimistic take on these market moves is that the bond market is catching up to the stock market and the bond market is seeing a higher growth trajectory. If the global economy is in for higher productivity growth and higher growth, you would also expect to see higher yields all around the world. Now, I'm not endorsing that view. I'm not saying that's right. But there are many different ways that you could see bond yields go up globally.

7:59It is, Mr. L. Arian is right. These moves are happening all around the world at the same time. I think that there are negative views of what could be driving that. There are also more optimistic views. It's hard to know right now which is the bigger driver.

8:14Margaret Brennan:Well, the vice president, J.D. Vance, in a TV interview, said Secretary Besant has a, quote, very discreet plan to shrink the nation's debt. Mr. Besant is holding a press conference tomorrow, or supposed to, and he said he's going to do things about fiscal consolidation. What are the things that people at home should be listening for that say America's debt load is really being dealt with now, that this isn't a problem? Well, I just think you can look to the Congressional Budget Office, which makes forecasts of debt, U.S. debt and deficits for decades out into the future. And many Fed leaders have said for a long time that the debt trajectory is on an unsustainable path.

8:59I think ultimately it's up to our fiscal actors. That's the Treasury and the executive branch working with Congress to design a fiscal package that can change that and put it on a sustainable path. But obviously, you said it a moment ago, that's not the Fed's role. The Fed's role is to take whatever they decide to do, put that into our forecast of the economy, and then our job is to take that and get inflation back down to our 2 % target and achieve our dual mandate goals. And my colleagues and I are all committed to doing so.

9:26Margaret Brennan:Right. And you have a meeting at the end of this week, I understand, out in Jackson Hole. But I'm wondering how all these dots connect, Because do you think that this kind of activity and level of concern in the markets is going to make your job harder when it comes to making some decisions or cause the Fed to intervene? I don't think so. As I mentioned a few moments ago, there's every indication that the U.S. Treasury market is functioning as it should, that trades are taking place, that there's liquidity in the market. And so that enables us to focus on the federal funds rate as our primary policy tool to get inflation back down.

10:07And so I think we have the freedom to do what we need to do to achieve our goals that Congress has assigned us.

10:12Margaret Brennan:OK. At that last Fed meeting that was held, you descended from the broader decision to hold interest rates steady. You said there have now been five years of persistently high inflation and sort of like, let's get on with it, was my understanding. You were saying let's start to possibly raise rates. You mentioned a quarter of a percentage point. Are you still thinking that that's necessary next month? Well, I want to get more data is yet to come between now and our next FOMC meeting. So I don't want to prejudge things. But what's happening in the Middle East, the conflict with Iran, is now a big driver of what's happening on inflation.

10:54Because, as you know, energy goes into every facet of the U.S. economy. And the longer that conflict, the more turmoil there is, the longer it goes on, the bigger effect it ends up having on the U.S. economy and on inflation. And even if it's driven by geopolitical factors like that, ultimately it does affect inflation. Ultimately, it does have a bearing on the Federal Reserve's mandate. And so the longer that goes on, the less confident I am that inflation is going to return to target. For five years, we've been saying inflation is going to return to target in the next year or two. It just keeps getting pushed out.

11:28Eventually, we're going to have to do more. And I'm not sure if we're there yet. We need to see more data. But I don't want to prejudge the next meeting. But I'm not feeling confident right now that inflation is heading back down to target in a short period of time.

11:41Margaret Brennan:And we should say that at that press conference, Secretary Besson is expected to have tomorrow. He's supposed to talk about switching to financial warfare or, I guess, returning to where we were and maybe ratcheting it up with financial warfare against Iran. It seems that that's the foot forward rather than military conflict. Does that change anything for you? It's too soon to know. I don't know what the secretary will announce, and I don't know what the implication will be for energy prices and commodity prices. Yeah. Let me ask you as well about what we heard in the last few days about the trade tension with Canada.

12:19Margaret Brennan:You are in Minnesota, key border state there. Prime Minister Carney said there will be new retaliatory tariffs rolling out next week on steel, dairy, appliances, ag equipment, pulp and paper, electronics. You've got a lot of cross-border trade here. Do you have any indication how significant the impact will be? Well, Canada is an important trading partner for America. We talked about the five years of elevated inflation that has largely been driven by what we call supply shocks. One of those supply shocks is the trade and tariff conflicts. And so to the extent that we can get to a new normal, a level of whatever the trade dynamic is going to be, Once we can get to that steady state, then businesses can adjust and the inflationary impact can fade into the background.

13:07The longer there's back and forth on the trade front, just like the longer there's back and forth in the conflict of Iran, the imprint and inflation end up being extended and delayed. And so that's another factor to pay close attention to.

13:21Margaret Brennan:Right. Well, we will follow that. And we appreciate your insight, as always. Neil Kashkari, thanks for joining us this morning. Face the Nation will be right back. Matching outfits, extravagant birthdays, many nicknames, a few classic moves of a dog-obsessed parent. At Ollie, they're obsessed with how obsessed you are with your pup, which is why they obsess over giving your dog the best. Ollie's fresh, human-grade recipes are developed by real chefs and backed by vet nutritionists. The meals are perfectly portioned and come with a pup-tainer and scoop for easy storing and mess-free serving, delivering the best experience for you and your pup.

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14:56Margaret Brennan:And we're joined now by the administrator of the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services, Dr. Mehmet Oz. Welcome back to Face the Nation.

15:04Dr. Mehmet Oz:Thanks for having me.

15:05Margaret Brennan:It is unquestionable here that health care costs are projected to rise in 2027, and this is a top concern. We see it in our polling in terms of economic worry for the average American. There's some good news, and I know you're watching this portion of it. There was this 3.1 % drop year over year in drug prices, according to the Consumer Price Index for the month of July. Now, that's not all drugs and generics played a role here. I know the administration wants to take credit for it. But can you give us some projection here? Are we going to see a further drop in drug prices? And if so, where? How much?

15:42Margaret Brennan:Who's going to benefit?

15:43Dr. Mehmet Oz:Well, I think drug prices are going to continue to drop. This is just what the doctor ordered. To be clear, this is the number one issue that Americans fear about health care costs because it comes out of their pocket. So let's put this in context. If you're sitting at home right now and you go to a drugstore because a doctor prescribed a medication, especially a branded product that might change your life for the better, hopefully, one in three times roughly you will leave empty handed because you can't afford the medication. Now, when you see drug prices drop as fast as they have over the past year, the fastest drop we've had in 63 years and it's accelerating, which is why I'm confident that it's going to continue.

16:15Dr. Mehmet Oz:You change that dynamic. Now, the question is, why? How did that happen? And one of the realities is that we leave empty-handed from the drugstore because our drugs cost much more than they cost in other countries. And the president recognizes, and it really bothered him, and it has for years. The real question is, why didn't we deal with it earlier? So the president gave us a very clear mandate at the very beginning of the administration, because these processes take time. He said, I don't want you to hurt productivity, creativity, innovation in the pharmaceutical sector, But they are not allowed to charge three times more for the exact same products made often in U.S.

16:47Dr. Mehmet Oz:facilities than they pay in Europe or Asia. So we went after this issue. Most favored nation drug pricing is the result. We're not telling companies what they can charge. We're saying whatever you charge overseas, you got to charge here. No more of this global freeloading. And thankfully, the 17 companies representing 85 percent of the drug sector all came on board. And here's the good news. Their market capitalization on Wall Street actually went up. because the market wants stability. What we want is better prices for the American people, and we got it. And just to put it in context, this increasing savings that we're seeing, the additional amount of savings we're getting, primarily driven not just by having the medications at most favored nation pricing, but available to the American people.

17:29Dr. Mehmet Oz:And Trump, rx.gov, is seismic in its nature.

17:32Margaret Brennan:Well, you know, more people want more information, and these deals aren't being published. There are some questions from lawmakers about it. I've seen reporting that 17 drug makers agreed to these most favored nation prices, but that Medicare and Medicaid recipients don't yet get full access to the programs. When will they? How much cheaper will it be? What kind of drugs?

17:54Dr. Mehmet Oz:Well, Medicare beneficiaries are rapidly getting access to these deals. By the way, we want to codify.

17:59Margaret Brennan:They don't have access to this program. No, they do.

18:02Dr. Mehmet Oz:They do. For example, the GLP-1 medications, the so-called fat shot, as the president calls them. They're now available to eligible Medicare beneficiaries for$50 a month. Margaret, these drugs were over$1 ,000 a month before we came in this administration. So that's driving a lot of the savings. That's the number one category, by the way, of all drugs. And guess where the number one zip code is for GLP-1s today in America? It's the Upper East Side of Manhattan. The rich people get access to these drugs because they want to look better when they go out to the Hamptons for the weekend. But the people who need them, the seniors who are overweight, can now, for the first time afford these drugs.

18:37Dr. Mehmet Oz:$50 a month means you can do something to help yourself lose weight, reduce blood pressure, reduce diabetes, and all the downstream costs that would have been incurred no longer happen.

Read the full transcript

18:47Margaret Brennan:So they have full access is what you're saying. It's not just the GLP ones.

18:50Dr. Mehmet Oz:Medicare beneficiaries have full access to some of the drugs, like the fertility drugs. They don't need those quite as much, even though fertility drugs are down 90%. So we have delivered these medications as they make sense. And going forward, this is the reason I'm optimistic, All new drugs released in America from these large companies will be at the most favored nation drug pricing. So we'll get better and better and better.

19:11Margaret Brennan:So you acknowledged earlier this week in an interview with my colleague, Major Garrett on CBS, that that Biden era 2022 law that allowed Medicare to haggle with drug makers was helpful to you in this, that that was kind of part of opening the door. I remember at that time, there was a lot of concern and criticism about that law that it would hurt innovation, that it would hurt the marketplace, how is it that you are now embracing it and making sure that it's not doing that?

19:43Dr. Mehmet Oz:The risks of the IRA, which is the law that drove this, is that it'll coerce companies to do things they don't want to do, so they'll just stop innovating. Now, the way you avoid that is by negotiating fairly with these companies. The first year of the program, it wasn't actually that effective in saving money. This past year, we got aggressive in the pricing, but again, doing it in a fair way so we're able to double the savings for the American people. I want to point out that drug prices and affordability are bipartisan beneficial issues. There are Republicans and Democrats who use medications.

20:13Dr. Mehmet Oz:We want to use every tool we have in our toolkit to get there. There's no question that the TrumpRx.gov most favorite nation drug pricing is the major driver. It dwarfs any other opportunity out there, but every tool I have, including these negotiations we will use?

20:31Margaret Brennan:We've been talking about the national debt,$40 trillion. Medicare trustees project projects that it'll be insolvent in seven years. And at that point, payments would be cut 11%. That's according to the Committee for a Responsible Budget. I know you're trying to reduce waste, fraud, and abuse. But even with that housekeeping, you got a significant problem here. There are Republican lawmakers who want the White House to do more. who are asking for it. What's the plan?

21:00Dr. Mehmet Oz:Well, the plan is the Great American Health Act, and that is going to include codifying the most favored edition drug pricing, which helps. The fraud, waste and abuse issue is important. I'll just put it in the context of what you just gave me. The insolvency of the Medicare trust fund, which is going to happen in six to seven years, it'll last twice as long. Think about that. Twice as many years of benefits if we just take the fraud out of Medicare. Forget about everything else. Just this past year, we cut$42 billion of fraud for Medicare by never leaving the money out of the door. And those are the kinds of benefits.

21:36Dr. Mehmet Oz:We're seeing dramatic changes in durable medical equipment fraud by a nationwide moratorium.

21:41Margaret Brennan:$42 billion, the federal government paid$1.2 trillion on Medicare. That's just the beginning.

21:46Dr. Mehmet Oz:That was last year. We hadn't even gotten the full speed. But let me just point one reality out. This is important. The fraud doesn't just steal money. It steals our trust. And we have states that are not working closely with us on these issues. And that's because in some cases, what's fraud to us objectively is actually a feature for the states.

22:06Margaret Brennan:But you're acknowledging that while important work is not sufficient to that massive financial problem, the even bigger benefit, more needs to be done. Is there a plan to do so past the midterms and after January?

22:17Dr. Mehmet Oz:I'll give you the plan we're already acting on without question. What's even bigger as an opportunity to save us money is the use of technology, including artificial intelligence. 50 % of doctors today use artificial intelligence to reduce bureaucratic load, take care of the paperwork. 50 % of doctors use it to get better advice that they give to their patients. We have a health tech ecosystem run by Amy Gleason within our agency that has been massively effective in recruiting every company you have ever heard of has joined us. 800 companies in a pledge to participate. I'll give you one hard number.

22:47Dr. Mehmet Oz:Last year, when I would sit here with you, 5 % of Americans had access to their medical records so they could use them wherever they wanted, including putting them in an AI frontier model. Today, it's over 50%. We're dramatically changing how information flows to the system. And this is a big deal because historically, people put gates down. They blocked data because they were making money. We're not allowing that. We're enforcing the rules. And the president drove these changes in executive orders that demand that people providing health care also provide the medical records to you. Because you know who owns the medical records?

23:19Dr. Mehmet Oz:You, the patient, because you're paying for them.

23:21Margaret Brennan:Yes, but I'm talking about government spending. But let me ask you about something else, and that's keeping people healthy. The CDC released new numbers last week showing 92 % of the nation's kindergartners were vaccinated from measles in the last school year, but that's below the 95 % herd immunity threshold. Now, the administration has started really encouraging people to get the MMR vaccine, but President Trump also said this. Take a listen. In three separate vaccinations, given at separate times, together there could be a possibility they're quite lethal, and separately it looks like they are not at all lethal, but just very effective.

24:02So the MMR, we want to have separate, separate visits, separate times.

24:07Margaret Brennan:The president twice said the shot may be lethal. Do you want to clarify that?

24:12Dr. Mehmet Oz:We want patients to get the treatments that their doctors are recommending to them. But we also want parents to have the autonomy to decide what their kids receive. My job at CMS, on the MMR vaccine, but all the vaccines. My job is to pay for the vaccines.

24:27Margaret Brennan:But he said it was the MMR vaccine. he used the term lethal. That's what I'm asking you to clarify.

24:32Dr. Mehmet Oz:The president wants Americans, and he said this many times, to get vaccinated, as their doctors recommend, as long as they have a choice in the matter. The challenge we're running into is that many states have not clarified that. And actually, it's harder for parents to ask these difficult questions. And Merck, here's the real issue.

24:46Margaret Brennan:The MMR vaccine is not offered in three separate shots. Merck, which produces it, said they couldn't offer that for another 10 years. Currently, it is only offered as a single shot. The president called that single shot lethal. Do you want to clarify that?

25:00Dr. Mehmet Oz:The MMR vaccine is not a lethal vaccine, and it is offered in other countries, the measles in particular, separately, like in Japan.

25:06Margaret Brennan:And they had problems with it in Japan once they started separating things out.

25:09Dr. Mehmet Oz:Well, that's the idea of all. And it's increased costs.

25:11Margaret Brennan:So for, like, the Vaccines for Kids program that you run for low-income kids, what are they going to do to them?

25:17Dr. Mehmet Oz:We're going to pay for the vaccines no matter what. The question, again, this comes back to a much more fundamental issue, Margaret. Do parents have the right to ask questions? We already experienced what happened during COVID when we took away that right from parents. They were forced to give their kids COVID vaccines.

25:29Margaret Brennan:They were not forced to give their kids COVID vaccines.

25:30Dr. Mehmet Oz:Well, they were pushed hard and oftentimes hindered from doing what they wanted to do, like going out socially, if their kids were not included in these programs. What we should, as a nation... It was their federal mandate. No, of course. It's not up to the state. It's not up to the federal government. It's up to the state. States do this. The request of the president is to make sure that states offer parents either eligibility because of religious beliefs or other reasons why they may not want to have their kids take all the vaccines in order. Let's pick a specific example, hepatitis B. Hepatitis B is a vaccine I happen to like.

25:56Dr. Mehmet Oz:I got the hepatitis B vaccine, but it helps adults avoiding issues if they're involved. For example, in my case as a doctor, if I just hit myself with a needle with a patient, but usually it's for drug abusers and for people who are involved in it.

26:08Margaret Brennan:For infants who could be exposed by a caregiver, by someone in their house, by parent unwittingly, which is why it is provided to children.

26:15Dr. Mehmet Oz:Extraordinarily, extraordinarily rare. And it's hard to design an entire program around just that possibility. The reality is if a parent wants to delay this vaccine from the hour the child is born for a few years because they don't think they're going to be in those high risk categories. Why not give the parent that choice? Again, we're going to pay for it no matter what.

26:34Margaret Brennan:OK, and we'll talk to a gubernatorial candidate about whether he's going to change that in his state since it's up to states. But we'll have to leave that here. We'll be right back. Stay with us. Imagine you finally have a free day out on the town. You're about to enjoy a nice lunch when you get the alert that a window's been broken at home and you're miles away. These are the wake-up calls that remind us, in one second, everything can change. ADT's security systems are built for those moments. They help keep your home safer with 24-7 monitoring. No one wants to feel unsafe at home or vulnerable when you're away.

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28:30Margaret Brennan:we turn now to former fda commissioner dr scott gottlieb he sits on the boards of pfizer and UnitedHealth. Welcome back to Face the Nation. There was some good news this week, and I want to have you weigh in on it. We heard about this experimental mRNA therapeutic cancer vaccine that allows people with high-risk melanoma to live longer. So it doesn't prevent cancer. People hear vaccine, they might think that, but rather it's a collaboration between Moderna and Merck that is an effective treatment so far. How do you understand this mRNA breakthrough? Yeah, this can be highly significant. This is something that we've been working on for 30 or 40 years right now.

29:13And what's changed is that we have the ability to find proteins on the surface of cancer cells that can be used to try to train the immune system to identify cancer and prevent cancer recurrence. And so this isn't a vaccine in a traditional sense. This is a form of cancer immunotherapy, we are delivering mRNA to try to train the body on proteins that are found on the surface of cancer cells so that you can teach the T cells in the body to spot the cancer should it recur. And what the trial demonstrated, and we don't have the full results, we have to wait for the top line results to come out, but what the trial demonstrated was that it prevents cancer recurrence so that basically when the body is trained on these specific antigens, the T cells can be able to spot the cancer if it should recur in other parts of the body.

30:00I lost sound. I apologize.

30:02Margaret Brennan:Oh, it's okay. Can you hear me now, Dr. Gottlieb?

30:09Margaret Brennan:Can you hear me now? I think we're trying to fix that. Let me take a quick commercial break and let's see if we can get this fixed so all of us can hear each other. We'll be right back. Welcome back to Face the Nation. We have been having some technical issues, But I believe we can now once again hear Dr. Gottlieb, the former FDA commissioner, and that he can hear us. Sorry about those problems there. You can hear us? Thanks. Great. I wanted to pick up when we left you, you had been explaining the promising mRNA research. In terms of what the White House has said about this breakthrough, They said it vindicated HHS's decision to reduce federal funding of mRNA vaccine research, arguing the private sector can do it.

30:58Margaret Brennan:What do you make of that spin? Yeah, look, I think that the statements from HHS pertain in particular to mRNA vaccines used for infectious diseases. This is different. Like I said, this is not a vaccine in traditional sense. It's a cancer immunotherapy. I think it's a misnomer to call it a vaccine. there's a lot of different strategies that we use to try to train the immune system to identify cancer and prevent cancer recurrence right now, including CAR T cells and other kinds of strategies that have been around for decades. And that's what this is. It happens to use mRNA to try to elicit those cancer antigens, those cancer proteins that are going to ultimately train T cells to identify cancer that might have spread distance parts of the body and weren't excised with surgery or with upfront chemotherapy.

31:40But it's not a vaccine. This is training the immune system to identify cancer to prevent recurrence. Okay.

31:46Margaret Brennan:You were the FDA commissioner at the beginning of the first Trump administration. And I know you've said to date, you think the FDA has been doing a pretty good job handling these foodborne outbreaks that the country has been experiencing. HHS is pushing back pretty hard on any criticism of what's going on, saying that when it comes to recalls, they're at the lowest levels in more than a decade. Does that mean they're doing their job really well, or does that mean they're not doing their job? Yeah, look, I wouldn't point to recalls as a measure of whether they're doing a good job or not doing a good job.

32:25Recalls really don't comport with whether or not the overall program is effective. And I don't think the program is not being effective. I think if you look at this year, there haven't been more outbreaks than what we traditionally see, with the exception of that that cyclospora outbreak, which was an extraordinary outbreak, and I think points to real problems with produce that we were sourcing from portions of Mexico, where you can't send in inspectors. Mexicans in the U.S. can't send inspectors into those regions because they're controlled by cartels. As far as the recalls themselves, these are largely voluntary.

32:53There's only been one mandatory recall in the history of FDA. That was back in 2018. We took it when I was there. So these are voluntary recalls by companies, and it could be the fact that recalls are down because companies aren't taking recalls. It could be that recalls are down because they're not identifying outbreaks. And in fact, recalls aren't down. When you look at the actual numbers, recalls are up slightly. It's just not the metric I would point to to assess the overall effectiveness of the program. I think FDA has done a reasonable job this year getting on top of these outbreaks when they've been identified by CDC.

33:23Margaret Brennan:The FDA oversees roughly 20 percent of the U.S. economy. This is an important agency with oversight of food and drugs. The president did make a new selection. He says Dr. Heidi Overton should be the next commissioner. She's going to face some skeptics in Congress, including Republican Senator Bill Cassidy, who cited her lack of managerial experience. And as he put it, her active role in the nonsensical vaccine executive order makes him question her commitment to standing up for science and children's health. Do you think she's a strong candidate? I think she could be a strong candidate. Look, she has a deep policy background, having worked in the White House on the Domestic Policy Council for two years and oversaw FDA from that position.

34:10If you talk to people inside the agency, both senior career staff as well as the politicals, they feel very confident in her leadership. She has protected the agency on certain issues. They felt that she helped them advance their public health prerogatives. She also worked on the COVID response, trying to get testing back up and running in the early days of COVID and was effective in that role if you talk to people who work with her. So I think she could be quite good in this role. I think this is first and foremost a policy role. It's really not an operational role. I think you need to have good operational people around you.

34:38You have to hire and retain good people and put them in key roles. You need strong leadership in the centers. And I think she has a sense that she needs to do that. She's been around FDA long enough to know that. But this is a policy role. It's a political job. She certainly has that experience. And I think having the relationship to the White House is going to be important.

34:54Margaret Brennan:But she's going to take questions about comments she has made about the abortion drug Mifepristone. She seemed to indicate she wants more federal restrictions on it. She stood next to the president in that Oval Office event where he and she personally praised European countries who do not mandate vaccines for school but still have high vaccination rates. How tough is this confirmation hearing going to be? Well, look, I don't think she's going to lose votes because she's not skeptical of vaccines enough. I think she's going to lose votes if people perceive her as being weak on that issue. There's three senators in particular that I think are going to be concerned about that.

35:33If you look at the criticism she's been getting on X, it's mostly from the anti-vaxxers. I think she's reasonably good on these issues. I think that press conference was unfortunate. I think, unfortunately, it's table stakes these days to getting a high-level appointment in a public health job in this administration to evidence some mixed messaging around vaccines. I'd like to see someone make a very full-throated statement in support of the childhood immunization schedule and basic protections for children. That's not what we're getting these days. I think hopefully when she has time to explain herself before Congress and get into this in a more substantive way and not just a press conference in the White House, you're going to hear something more thoughtful from her.

36:07That's my expectation. That would be my hope.

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38:07Margaret Brennan:We go now to Florida Republican Congressman Byron Donalds. He's also now his party's gubernatorial nominee in the Sunshine State. Welcome to Face the Nation. Good morning, Margaret. Good to be with you. So you're a sitting congressman, but this job that you are running for would make you the chief executive of the third largest state in the country. So you'll have a lot of decision-making power over a number of things, including health policy. And I want to ask you about that because Florida has been at the forefront of this push to roll back vaccine mandates. In your state, the Department of Health can change some.

38:49Margaret Brennan:Others, like polio and MMR vaccines, are mandated under Florida law. If you're elected, are you going to go to the Department of Health and the state legislature and ask for repeals? If so, which ones? Well, first of all, Margaret, it's going to be with you. Number one, I know that Governor DeSantis and our Surgeon General, Dr. Latipo, have already made moves on the rulemaking vaccines and put those under essentially giving parents the ability to make those decisions for their children. I agree with that decision. When it comes to polio, MMR, those are things that we want to make sure we study and really engage in before we make those determinations and work with the legislature before we make any of those decisions about requirements for those vaccines.

39:33I think it's important also to note that President Trump did allow for expansion and really, quite frankly, reversing the concentration around the vaccine schedule. I know that my oldest son, he's 22 years old. The vaccination schedule for him was very different for kids today. And so spreading out that vaccination schedule, I think, does make sense. It gives an infant human body the ability to actually absorb and deal with that rate of vaccination. But if we're going to talk health care, the bigger issue we have in the state of Florida is costs. And number one, the Affordable Care Act is not working for Floridians.

40:07We have seen premiums jump over the last 15 years since it passed. Deductibles out of control for the last 15 years. And so the current structure of health insurance in our country under the Affordable Care Act is not working for families, whether it's Florida or anywhere else in the United States. This is why my proposal is price transparency. We want doctors' offices and hospitals to post a real cash price for the top 20 services that they provide. So Floridians have an opportunity to see the real price, see the real cost, and make determinations about where they get their health care. I think that's much more of a constructive conversation about costs in health care and trying to stabilize prices than just simply vaccinations.

40:49Margaret Brennan:Right. But that also doesn't address coverage for them or how they pay for them. But I hear you. I'm sure a lot of people would like to know what they're paying. But in terms of keeping people healthy, nearly all of Florida is below the 95 % immunization rate for herd immunity for measles. So is your message to Florida parents, get your kids vaccinated against that one? No, actually, my message to Floridians and quite frankly, to Americans, is the reason why we have seen a measles outbreak in certain parts of the country is because of rampant illegal immigration into the United States from the previous administration.

41:25Margaret, before Joe Biden came to office, when our borders were basically secure, Margaret, we've seen the outbreaks in El Paso, Texas, in Southwest Florida, where I live, and many other parts, where you know that you have a situation where people have come into the country illegally, have not had that vaccination schedule, and not the ones today on young kids that parents do have concerns about. I'm talking about previous ones where people weren't even getting the measles vaccine or mumps and rubella. So the key thing is, number one, you got to control immigration into your country. You can't have an entire segment of people, more than 10 million, come into your country without that vaccination schedule.

42:00That's how you end up having some of these outbreaks. And so that's number one. But number two, and I will tell you, we could talk vaccinations, but the real issue in health care is the cost for Americans and the cost for Floridians. And we have already seen that the regulatory framework of the Affordable Care Act is driving up costs on every American. And that's what I want to stay focused on as the next governor of Florida.

42:23Margaret Brennan:Okay. So you want vaccinated immigrants. Let me ask you about some of those immigrants. There are actually, I want, I just want legal immigrants to be clear. I just want legal immigration with assimilation. We cannot have open borders and we cannot have illegal immigration in our country. I want to ask you about legal immigration. There were 158 ,000 Haitians legally living in Florida under temporary protected status or TPS until the Trump administration ended that program. You know, when it comes to Haiti, the State Department tells Americans don't go there for any reason at all. There's crime, there's terrorism, there's no health care access, there's kidnapping.

42:58Margaret Brennan:You said that this TPS program was just to be a temporary refuge. But aren't all those conditions I listed there the reason you would want temporary refuge? shouldn't there be some protection? Well, Margaret, number one, let's speak specific to Haiti. I've actually had meetings with the transitional government and the ambassador for the transitional government. They're working on security forces right now as we speak to begin to stabilize Haiti. They've gotten about a quarter to half of the country under control from the gangs that basically took over Haiti. And that's number one. Number two, you just said at the top, TPS is a temporary program.

43:41The Biden administration, through enforcement, took the T off the program. They turned that into a permanent program, not to mention catch and release, not to mention how they bastardized asylum and didn't allow for true asylum cases to come to the United States. They blew up the borders. More than 10 million people came into our country. And so, yes, there has to be a standard when it comes to immigration. The Trump administration, in my view, making sure that it's a temporary program is correct, but we are also working with the transitional government to make sure that the right security forces are in Haiti to stabilize that country.

44:16So that entire process is going to take time. What you can't do in immigration is just say that every program just runs into perpetuity with no end, because once you do that, you have the wrong incentives to make sure that people can return to their home country, stabilize that country, and make sure that it returns to normalcy.

44:33Margaret Brennan:I hear you, and hopefully you have your earpiece in there. Congressman Carlos Jimenez, your fellow Floridian, said deporting Haitians under TPS would be a huge mistake for Florida. Another Florida Republican, Maria Elvira Salazar, says those TPS holders are part of the backbone of our workforce in critical sectors like health care. So do you have a plan to replace the loss of 100 ,000 Haitians who work in health care in Florida if they are deported? Well, let's just be very clear. You were talking about the labor force in Florida. What we want to do is, number one, we want to make sure that our kids coming out of high school are having internships and apprenticeships and the necessary workforce training to be able to work, whether it's health care or any other job field.

45:22Right now, about a third to a half of our kids are going into the college university system. The other half, quite frankly, there is no strategy or plan for them to be successful. This is why I have a launchpad initiative in Florida where if you're a junior or senior in high school, you can actually have those apprenticeships and internships. But this is an immediate shortage of health care workers. Hold on, Margaret. Hold on, Margaret. Number two. Number two, there are jobs available in Florida. We want to change adult re-education, adult education, career source, have that really be supercharged so people can transition from one job or going into those fields.

46:02That's number two. Number three, and this is a broader American issue. You cannot let the borders of our country be blown wide open and then talk about, well, we need people in this field or that field and not actually have consistent immigration policy. And so a lot of what you're talking about really stems from terrible decisions when it comes to immigration from the Biden administration. And quite frankly, I was like Angie Nixon, like David Jolly. That's the problem that we are presented with. We have to have a stable standard in immigration and naturalization. And that comes with following the law, not letting Democrats ignore our law.

46:37Margaret Brennan:I was asking your plan in your state to make up for the shortage of health care workers that are about to be deported. I just gave you the plan, Margaret. Margaret, I just gave you the plan, but I'm also a member of Congress. And so you have to have a standard for immigration while making sure that our children in our schools today and young people working today have the ability to move into those fields and those careers while making enough money to build the American dream for themselves. We'll watch your campaign. Thank you very much. Congressman Donalds, who is standing for gubernatorial race in November.

47:11Margaret Brennan:We're going to turn now to another congressman, and that is Seth Moulton, who joins us from Salem, Massachusetts. And Congressman Moulton wants to beat Senator Moulton. He's launched a primary challenge to Ed Markey. Good to have you on the program, Congressman. Good to see you, Margaret. Last time we saw a young challenger go after Senator Markey's seat, Markey won. How do you get the partisan enthusiast to show up for you when he's got Senator Bernie Sanders and AOC behind him? Well, as the Boston Globe said in endorsing me, which was a switch for them, by the way, because they endorsed Senator Markey six years ago.

47:49The future is now. The world has changed. And Senator Markey is very much running the same campaign he did back in 20 when all those same people endorsed him. But in the last debate that we just had this week, he explained to Massachusetts voters that he can't understand the different apps on his phone. He doesn't know which ones use AI. And then he tried to clean it up by explaining that AI is like an automobile and we need to regulate it the way we regulate seatbelts. So the point is, the world has just moved on. It's not a personal thing with Ed Markey. In fact, he and I agree on most policies.

48:24It's about whether one Senate seat should belong to one person while the world is moving on without him. He's been there for he's been in Washington for 50 years, Margaret.

48:35Margaret Brennan:Yeah. And you have focused on that need for generational change for some time. You tried to oust Nancy Pelosi from leadership in 2016, 2018. You pushed then for generational change. You ran for president in 2019. In 2024, you were the third member of Congress to say Biden should not run again. So big picture, it looks like you've been saying the Democratic Party has been on the wrong path for a very long time. Yes, that's fair. I mean, this is very authentic to me. From the very first time I ran for Congress against a nine-term incumbent in my own party and had many of those same establishment endorsers of Ed Markey campaigning against me, I've been willing to challenge the establishment when I don't think it's getting the job done.

49:20And I'll be the first to admit that it's not always popular, right? It doesn't always resonate with people. But right now, it's desperately needed. More than seven out of 10 Democrats in Massachusetts say they want new Democratic Party leadership. On day one of this campaign, I said, I'm not going to vote for Senator Schumer for Senate leader. Well, not only is Markey supporting Schumer, he just took$62 ,000 from Schumer's fund to flip Senate seats, money that Democrats raised across the country to go to Maine and Ohio and Alaska to flip seats from red to blue. He took that away from that victory fund to bail out his own campaign.

49:59So this is just a time when we do desperately need to challenge party leadership. And it is, as you said, very authentic to my history.

50:07Margaret Brennan:I want to ask you about something you were also out on a limb on. And that was five years ago this week, 13 service people, 170 Afghans were killed in the attack on Abbey Gate during that chaotic withdrawal from Afghanistan. You were very critical of President Biden and how he carried that out. And you said Washington should be ashamed of the position we put our service members in. Right now, the current president has banned Afghans from entering this country. What are you going to do to help those people left behind? Well, first of all, we're literally working on this issue every single day, Margaret, behind the scenes.

50:46Margaret Brennan:Not much is happening, though. Look, my office got so much experience working with all these cases and trying to get individuals out of Afghanistan. We were able to, on our own, just rescue dozens and dozens ourselves. themselves and in the face of this horrific Trump administration, where their policies are basically just racist, essentially, and saying that they don't want anybody who doesn't, isn't a white person coming into America. They are basically ground the immigration program from Afghanistan to a halt. So the first thing we're doing is behind the scenes, we're still working with veterans from across the country to get Afghans to safety.

51:23The second thing we're doing is we're fighting on policy because we have to change this policy. We have to fundamentally reform immigration. And of course, we should support the allies who put their lives on the line, not just for their country, but for ours alongside our troops. But the third thing I'm doing, which is really the key point here with all of this, is I'm fighting to get majorities in the House and the Senate. While Senator Markey is taking money away from the Victory Fund, I'm raising millions of dollars through Serve America, as I have for years, to support Democrats who are going to flip seats across the country.

51:56We've already flipped 24 seats from red to blue. We need to continue that work so we win majorities.

52:02Margaret Brennan:All right. Well, we'll see because you got this inter-party fight first, September 1st. Seth Moulton will be watching What Happens. Thank you for your time today. We'll be right back. That's it for us today. Thank you all for watching. Until next week. Face the Nation, I'm Margaret Brennan. The senior executive producer of Face the Nation is Mary Hager Laird. The executive producer is Anne Hsu. This broadcast was directed by Shelley Schwartz. Face the Nation originates from CBS News in Washington. For more Face the Nation, we're online at facethenation.com and on YouTube. Face the Nation is also rebroadcast on our CBS News 24-7 streaming network at 1230 on Sundays.

52:45Margaret Brennan:It's available through our Paramount Plus app. I've realized lately that the products I use every single morning genuinely affect how I feel for the rest of the day. If something feels heavy, greasy, overly makeup-y or complicated, I just stop reaching for it. That's why I've been loving Primally Pure's new Sun Serum Tinted SPF. It gives mineral SPF 30 protection and enough coverage to make my skin look even and healthy. But it still looks like my skin. It has this really fresh, lived-in glow, and their lip and cheek tint has become one of those products I keep throwing on throughout the day because it makes me look instantly more awake and put together in like 10 seconds.

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From the publisher

This week on Face the Nation, new warning signs for the U.S. economy and mounting higher costs for American families. As Washington prepares for race cars to speed down its streets today, many Americans are focused on a different pace, the struggle to keep up with the rising cost of living and a growing sense of economic uncertainty.

The country's debt reached unprecedented levels last week and president Trump's Treasury Secretary intervened to lower borrowing costs. And a new trade war this weekend with neighboring Canada with the U.S. threatening to raise tariffs on everything from building materials to dairy and paper.

Will prices be pushed even higher? We'll discuss the outlook for the economy with Minneapolis Federal Reserve President Neel Kashkari.

Then, another growing concern for Americans: the skyrocketing cost of health care. We'll hear from the administrator of Medicare and Medicaid, Doctor Mehmet Oz. 

Former FDA Commissioner Doctor Scott Gottlieb will also join us to discuss the growing list of food recalls and outbreaks as President Trump makes a new pick to lead the Food and Drug Administration.

Finally, Florida Congressman Byron Donalds, fresh off his win in the GOP gubernatorial primary, will join us to discuss his vision for the Sunshine State. And we'll ask Democratic Congressman Seth Moulton of Massachusetts about his push to oust a senator from his own party.

It's all just ahead on Face the Nation.

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