In short
The episode of Face the Nation focuses on a potential U.S.-Iran truce and ceasefire extension, plus related national security and economic fallout. Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth argues the U.S. is “on track” for a Sunday signing of a memorandum of understanding that would extend the ceasefire, reopen the Strait of Hormuz, and start 60 days of negotiations. He claims the deal is “performance-based” with no money released until Iran complies, nuclear material destruction/removal, and verification/oversight; he says the U.S. will maintain military leverage and can “snap” the blockade back. He also cites “Project Freedom” and 125 million barrels transiting the strait, with “zero” Iranian ships transiting the blockade. He supports a Venezuela airstrike killing Tren de Aragua leader “Nino Guerrero,” and promotes the America’s Counter Cartel Coalition. Senator Mark Warner criticizes the plan, warning Iran still has missiles/drones and that enriched-uranium access likely requires ground troops. Senator Mark Kelly echoes concerns about munitions and surveillance lapses (Section 702) and questions nominees. Guest Gary Cohn (former Trump economic advisor; IBM vice chairman) predicts gas prices could ease as the strait reopens, but not instantly, and defends Fed independence under chair Kevin Warsh.
Notable examples
strikes in Beirut/Hezbollah, drones/missiles targeting shipping, and the Venezuela operation against Tren de Aragua.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VONature's Call to Adventure
0:01 to 0:31
Explore how nature enriches our lives and the importance of outdoor experiences.
“Whether it's the recorded sounds of the ocean we doze off to, or the succulents that adorn our homes, nature makes all of our lives richer, calmer, and frankly, better.”
U.S.-Iran Truce Discussions
2:45 to 6:41
Analysis of the potential U.S.-Iran truce and its implications for the region.
“We face a key decision point today that has implications for the global economy and potentially could stop nearly four months of conflict with Iran.”
Military Posture and Negotiations
6:41 to 8:27
Discussion on the U.S. military posture and negotiations related to Iran's nuclear program.
“That's what we're waiting on being signed today.”
Performance-Based Deal Overview
8:27 to 13:44
Details of the performance-based deal with Iran regarding nuclear weapons.
“If the blockade comes off, then you pull back and you allow shipping to flow, just like Iran needs to allow shipping to go through the straits.”
U.S. Military Involvement in Cleanup
13:44 to 14:03
Exploring the potential role of the U.S. military in securing Iran's nuclear materials.
“When I understood what you just said there, you said that IAEA could be involved.”
U.S. Military Options in Iran Negotiations
14:03 to 15:36
Exploration of U.S. military strategies and options in dealing with Iran's nuclear program.
“military has to go in and clean up the nuclear dust?”
U.S. Military Operations in Venezuela
15:42 to 18:08
Discussion on recent military actions in Venezuela and the U.S.'s approach to foreign terrorist organizations.
“Let me ask you about Venezuela, because there was also big news within the past few days.”
Stockpiles and Munitions Production
18:12 to 19:50
Insights into U.S. munitions stockpiles and production capabilities, especially in context of Ukraine.
“We're taking back control of our hemisphere and ensuring the poisoning and attacks on the American people.”
Stockpiles and Munitions Production
20:46 to 21:55
Insights into U.S. munitions stockpiles and production capabilities, especially in context of Ukraine.
“Hey parents, we all know summer break is for fun, but it's also a time when kids can start losing some of the progress they made during the school year.”
Senator Warner on Diplomacy and Iran
22:06 to 25:08
Senator Warner discusses the complexities of diplomatic efforts regarding Iran's nuclear ambitions.
“As you heard from the secretary, a lot of these very important details have to still be negotiated.”
Show all 19 chapters
Concerns Over National Intelligence Appointment
25:12 to 28:03
Senator Warner articulates concerns regarding the appointment of Jay Clayton as Director of National Intelligence.
“Well, we'll watch for whatever happens next.”
Discussion on FISA and National Security
28:03 to 31:41
Learn about the implications of FISA reauthorization and national security risks.
“I've had foreign governments express huge concern.”
Discussion on FISA and National Security
32:15 to 33:52
Learn about the implications of FISA reauthorization and national security risks.
“Experience the ultimate account of World War II.”
Senator Mark Kelly on U.S.-Iran Relations and AI
34:00 to 42:04
Discuss the U.S. response to recent events in the Middle East and the growing concerns surrounding artificial intelligence.
“We turn now to Arizona Democratic Senator Mark Kelly, who joins us from Phoenix.”
Evaluating AI Risks to Society
42:04 to 42:50
Discussion on the potential risks associated with AI technologies and the need for careful evaluation before deployment.
“And some of the capabilities that these models have to access systems, not only federal government systems, but financial systems is very concerning to us.”
Evaluating AI Risks to Society
43:25 to 44:34
Discussion on the potential risks associated with AI technologies and the need for careful evaluation before deployment.
“but it's also a time when kids can start losing some of the progress they made during the school year.”
Economic Insights with Gary Cohn
44:41 to 47:24
Gary Cohn discusses the impact of oil prices on the economy and the role of the Federal Reserve in managing these changes.
“We're joined now by Gary Cohn, who is the top economic advisor to President Trump in his first term.”
The Evolution of American Entrepreneurship
47:27 to 51:59
Exploring the growth of companies like SpaceX and their impact on the economy and workforce.
“Given all the forces you are seeing in the economy right now, do you think the Federal Reserve can really do the kind of rate cut that President Trump very publicly says he wants to see?”
Political Updates and Reflections
52:01 to 52:44
Margaret Brennan provides updates on political events including the removal of Trump's name from the Kennedy Center.
“Before we go today, a quick update on a story we've been tracking.”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:01We all belong outside. We're drawn to nature. It calls to us. Whether it's the recorded sounds of the ocean we doze off to, or the succulents that adorn our homes, nature makes all of our lives richer, calmer, and frankly, better. Despite all this, we often go about our busy lives removed from it. But the outdoors is closer than we realize. With AllTrails, you can discover trails nearby or trails worth traveling to and explore confidently with offline maps and on-trail navigation. Whether you're looking for a laid-back walk with family or something more adventurous to get your heart pumping, AllTrails gives you the tools you need to get out there and find your outside.
0:53Download the free app today and make the most of your summer with AllTrails. Why have I asked my electrician I found on Angie.com to bury my pet hamster Nibbles in our yard for me? Because I was so moved by how carefully he buried my electrical wires, I knew I could trust him to bury my sweet Nibbles after his untimely end. Huh, Nibbles. Gone too soon. May he scurry in peace. Hey, sorry about your pet, but I just wire stuff. Nibbles would have loved you like a brother. Connecting homeowners with skilled pros for over 30 years. Angie, the one you trust to find the ones you trust. Find pros for all your home projects at Angie.com.
1:32Margaret Brennan:I'm Margaret Brennan in Washington, and this week on Face the Nation, the U.S. and Iran on the brink of a truce. We'll get the latest in an exclusive interview with Secretary of Defense Pete Hegson. As the nation's capital prepares for a UFC fight night on President Trump's birthday, a deal that could potentially end a war in the Middle East is expected to be signed. We'll also hear from two key Democrats on committees with oversight on national security, Senators Mark Warner and Mark Kelly. Despite a sharp jump in the inflation rate, now at its highest level in three years, President Trump is optimistic an end to fighting will stop the surge in energy prices.
2:15No, I love it. The numbers were trying. You know what I really love? I love the inflation.
2:20Margaret Brennan:We'll get a reality check from one of President Trump's top economic advisors from his first term, Gary Cohn. It's all just ahead on Face the Nation.
2:44Margaret Brennan:Good morning and welcome to Face the Nation. We face a key decision point today that has implications for the global economy and potentially could stop nearly four months of conflict with Iran. As we come on the air, a preliminary memorandum of understanding between Washington and Tehran has yet to be signed. But if and when the agreement takes effect, it would extend the ceasefire, reopen the Strait of Hormuz, and kick off 60 days of negotiations to resolve the other big issues. Yet even as both sides signal a deal is within reach, hostilities in the region continue. This morning, the Israeli Defense Force conducted strikes in Lebanon on Beirut's southern suburbs to target the Iranian-backed Hezbollah leadership.
3:29Margaret Brennan:The IDF called it retaliation for strikes on Israel. CBS has learned the potential U.S.-Iran truce includes a vague reference to ending the fighting in Lebanon, which may not be enough for Iran's leaders. And Iran's failure to cut off support for its proxy force Hezbollah may not be enough for America's partner Israel. For the latest, we begin this morning with Secretary of Defense Pik Hegseth, who joins us from Tennessee. Mr. Secretary, welcome to Face the Nation. Good morning, Margaret. Thank you. So did the Hezbollah-Israel strikes disrupt any of the plans to have this memorandum signed today.
4:10Margaret Brennan:Are we on track for a Sunday signing? From all I know, we are on track. It's not a matter of if, it's a matter of when. There's logistics involved into how these things happen. Ultimately, obviously, we're attuned to what's happening with Hezbollah firing rockets into northern Israel, which they need to stop doing, and Iran needs to encourage them to stop doing that in very adamant ways. And Israel was very measured in its response, understanding that a deal is on is we're on the verge of a deal. So I don't expect that to disrupt. I also accept expect more robust talks there. The negotiations business is not really mine, but I think those talks will continue.
4:49And if Iran wants this to hold, they need to they need to pull back Hezbollah, no doubt.
4:54Margaret Brennan:So this memorandum would be an extension of the ceasefire, as you said, with a promise to keep talking. Given how clear President Trump has been that he wants to end combat. Will the U.S. troops come back home? Will those two aircraft carriers be pulled back? Well, what, Margot, what I would say the president's been most clear about is that Iran will never have a nuclear weapon, never, full stop. And this deal, as we talk about aspects of the deal, some of which have come up publicly are totally wrong, it's performance-based. No money released to Iran until they perform. There's no trust and verify.
5:33There's no trust here, and we're going to verify everything. Nuclear material will be destroyed and removed. The nuclear program will be dismantled. The straits will be open, no tolling. The JCPOA was a path to a bomb. What this deal will be will be a wall to a bomb. And that was the objective from the beginning, very clear from the beginning. So as far as our military posture, we'll maintain what we need to. The blockade has been a devastating success for us and impact on the Iranians. So think of this chain of events militarily, just for a second. You had 45 days of overwhelming combat, which Iran could not manage.
6:10And their Navy's gone, Air Force gone, air defenses. Then it led to a blockade, which was impenetrable now for a couple of months. And then you had the Underground Project Freedom, which allowed now 125 million barrels of oil to transit the Straits, showing that we control the Straits. And then we did two more days of bombing because they weren't really coming to the table. So it's been military pressure and strength from President Trump that's compelled Iran to this deal, which will be performance-based when it's signed shortly.
6:39Margaret Brennan:Right, but we're not at that deal yet. We're not even at the memorandum. That's what we're waiting on being signed today. The U.S. and Israeli militaries, no doubt, did devastate the conventional military, as you are arguing there. But the IRGC terrorist-controlled regime. They control this country. They would be pocketing the financial benefits of being able to sell the oil if the blockade ends, as you just indicated. They didn't capitulate. They're negotiating. So how do you reassure allies who are in the region and say they still feel they are at risk? Are you keeping the force posture in place through the 60 days of negotiations and beyond?
7:23Oh, we'll make sure the military option is there. And that's the big difference between this and JCPOA and the way Obama did it. Obama, they begged Iran for a deal and we bombed Iran and then put in a blockade and then ran ships through and then have restarted when necessary to ensure that they come to the table for a great deal. So our military posture will be whatever it needs to be to ensure they're compelled over this 60 days through the memorandum of understanding that they live up to what they said they would do. The document says Iran will never have a nuclear weapon, won't seek one, won't buy one, won't have one.
8:01In 60 days, there'll be negotiations to make that final. But they didn't have the threat of military force the way that we do, that Iran respects in a very way that their regime is more devastated, more devastating, more devastated than it's ever been in its 47 years. And that's why they're at the table. So the huge difference is we did this from a position of strength. President Trump led with military might. That military might will stay as long as necessary. If the blockade comes off, then you pull back and you allow shipping to flow, just like Iran needs to allow shipping to go through the straits.
8:35But we can snap that blockade back at any point, and they can't do anything about it. And Iran knows that. And that's why we have the leverage in these talks, and we hope they'll go well. We really do.
8:45Margaret Brennan:Well, as I understand it, the first part of this deal would involve the clearing and reopening of the Strait of Hormuz. How quickly will the U.S. blockade on Iran end? How quickly will they be able to sell their oil? Immediately is what the president has said, and that'll be our expectation of the Iranians. So tomorrow you'll end the blockade if they sign it today. problem here. So when it, again, it's performance based, Margaret. So we're not going, unlike Obama, President Trump is smart about these things. He's not going to just give it away. So ultimately the blockade will stay as the straight opens and then the blockade will open and then the straights open.
9:26And if that takes, you know, 30 days to fully mature or two weeks to fully mature, but it will start immediately as the president has said. And by the way, I think your viewers need to remember, Project Freedom never stopped, and we've run 125 million barrels of oil through the Straits, and Iran couldn't do anything about it. How many ships from Iran have transit our blockade? Zero. Zero. We have controlled the Straits this entire time. You're going to negotiate with them to reopen it.
9:54Margaret Brennan:So, okay, you're saying immediately, but Secretary Rubio had said the U.S. would help to clear mines from the Strait of Hormuz. You just used 30 days as like a period of time. Can you clear the mines and remove the security threats in the strait within 30 days? We can do any of those things within 30 days in a permissive environment. So the ball is in Iran's court at some level. So we would get back to pre-war shipping? We're already doing things I can't talk about on this program to ensure that safe passage happens as quickly as possible. So we're all over this. We know exactly what the dynamics are.
10:32Iran probably doesn't because they can't see and sense their capabilities around the strait, especially these last couple of nights were very devastating for them as far as their ability to understand what's going through the strait. So if they have capabilities and can do it, great. If not, if international partners who've said they want to step up, want to step up and contribute, great. But once this deal is signed, our expectation is that Iran will stop shooting, you know, drones at commercial shipping. It's been them shooting and shipping the entire time.
11:01Margaret Brennan:Yeah, they did that just on Friday. And in fact, a drone collided with an Apache helicopter last week. They fired drones into Bahrain. They fired missiles at a U.S. base in Jordan just a few days ago. They still have the capacity to hurt our friends and partners. And that's why you have to deal with these folks with strength and not just ask them at the table. And it's the military strength that compelled them to this point where they're making a deal which will be great for the security of the United States of America. And that's why this is such a big moment. and only President Trump's strength and clarity of mission to say no nuclear weapon will ensure that now and underneath the MOU, the terms are set that are performance based for Iran to ensure that they never get a nuclear weapon.
11:41That's what's critical.
11:42Margaret Brennan:So once the 60 days of negotiations and I know that could be extended start, that's when the nuclear program gets dealt with. President Trump posted on social media Saturday that, quote, at the appropriate time when all is calm, we will go in and get the nuclear dust. That's how he refers to the highly enriched uranium under the bombed sites. He said, we'll downblend and destroy it, whether in Iran or the U.S. Is the goal, is the plan to have the U.N. do all of that? I don't think the U.N. has been really effective in anything here. We'll handle it as we need to. Ultimately, that could be part of it.
12:22The reality is President Trump has already set back Iran's nuclear program in devastating ways from Midnight Hammer to this campaign to ways that we know how far back we've set them. We're watching that material as we have this entire time. And any arrangement, as I said from the outset of the program, will be performance and metrics based. You'll have inspections, you'll have oversight, whether they're U.S., whether they're international, but it'll be a throttle set by the United States through our negotiators with the military and strength as the guarantor of this. If Iran does not want to comply, then they can deal with the War Department again, which we'd rather not have to do and President Trump would rather not have to do.
13:02But we know they know the type of devastating effects that have occurred on their military and on their air defenses and on their capabilities. They don't want that again. And so when we restruct twice, don't discount how important it was that we were willing to show we will restart this and we will set you back even further. And that was part of the reason why Iran came to the table and we're going to finish this initial MOU to set the clock. So that's the umbrella here. OK. We'll work with you to remove that material or you'll downblend that material. But you're not going to have any of that material.
13:34And anything you do get will be based on oversight and performance. And Iran understands that. And that's why I think ultimately this is something that can and will succeed.
13:43Margaret Brennan:Well, those are really important details that still have to be negotiated. When I understood what you just said there, you said that IAEA could be involved. We have reported here at CBS that American military planners had discussed contingencies with U.S. forces and the Department of Energy working together to secure their nuclear materials. Are you saying that at the negotiating table, the United States is going to say the U.S. military has to go in and clean up the nuclear dust? Well, I'm not going to say on a Sunday morning television program what we will or will not do in any context. We'll have all options on the table.
14:22And that's what we've said to President Trump and the American people and the world and the Iranians from the beginning. The entirety of the might of the U.S. War Department is prepared to ensure Iran never has a nuclear weapon. We can do it the Midnight Hammer way. We can do it the Epic Fury way if we need to. Ultimately, Iran will need to destroy it and remove it, downblend it, and we will be involved, whether physically or otherwise, to ensure that that happens. Could be the U.S. military. Could be another option. I think our negotiators, our world-class negotiators, are going to have a lot of options.
14:53The U.S. military is good at these types of things, so is the Energy Department, and so working with the Iranians to ensure it's destroyed and removed and their program is dismantled will be center.
15:01Margaret Brennan:Well, it's a it's an important point for for those who are members of the U.S. military to understand whether you are saying ground troops would be involved in cleaning up nuclear dust.
15:14You're saying that you're trying to put words to create a headline. What I'm saying is we have we have plans. No, we have plans for everything. And should the president need a, you know, a compel option, we have compel options and many different types of compel options. But right now we've set the conditions for 60 days to ensure that that material is downblended, destroyed or removed. Whatever the president decides is in the best interest of the United States of America. And the War Department is there to support that effort.
15:42Margaret Brennan:Let me ask you about Venezuela, because there was also big news within the past few days. President Trump said the U.S. military killed Nino Guerrero, the leader of the Venezuelan gang Trendy Aragua, or TDA, in an airstrike earlier this week. He had been indicted in the Southern District of New York for many crimes. I'm wondering why go with a strike option? Why not snatch and grab him and make him face justice in a U.S. court like you did with Nicolas Maduro? I was going to say, we did that. We've shown we can do that when we did it with Nicolas Maduro. And because of that, it created the conditions where in partnership with the Venezuelan government, this is a huge deal.
16:21I mean, they invited our military in because they have a foreign terrorist organization on their soil in Trende, Aragua, the founder and leader. And we were able to identify where he was and kill him, just like we would kill al Qaeda or ISIS. And we did in the Middle East. We treat these foreign terrorist organizations the same way, just like we do with drug boats when we identify they're run by those FTOs. So that was a great development. I mean, think about that. President Trump had the foresight to seize Maduro, change the relationship. We have a totally different energy dynamic around the world.
16:51By the way, the way energy flows today, the straits will be nowhere near as relevant one to two years from now. Because of the foresight of President Trump, he's made us energy independent at home. We're a net exporter. Now Venezuela through our partnerships. Now we're killing foreign terrorist leaders who have terrorized the American people. The amount of drugs and gangs that came from China in Iraq and the United States of America. Energy prices are pretty high right now. It's a huge deal.
17:14Margaret Brennan:So I don't know that the independence is helping people at the pump. They're coming down and you've seen it. They are. We'll talk about that later in the program, but I want to come back to the Venezuela point. Given that the U.S. military just carried out this operation, should Americans understand that the U.S. will remain militarily involved in Venezuela? Should they expect similar operations in places like Ecuador and Guatemala, where the U.S. is working with their governments? Yes, they should. It's called the America's Counter Cartel Coalition, ACCC, And we're forming it with partner governments all around Central and South America to go after, defeat and destroy foreign terrorist organizations, drug cartels.
17:54And all those countries you named are stepping up to work on partnerships with the United States, where we work with their governments and their militaries with their special capabilities and our special capabilities to hunt terrorist networks in our own hemisphere. Just like we showed we were very good at with ISIS and Al Qaeda in the Middle East for 20 years. It's an incredible reinforcement of the Monroe Doctrine, now the Dunro Doctrine. We're taking back control of our hemisphere and ensuring the poisoning and attacks on the American people. And so it's a beautiful it's a beautiful military thing to behold.
18:25Other countries coming to us to work with us and we're going to take full advantage of it.
18:29Margaret Brennan:Let me ask you before you go about what is going on with U.S. munitions and stockpiles here. Ukraine's President Zelensky was on this program a few weeks ago. He made a plea not just for more interceptors, but for the ability to produce them for friendly governments to be able to produce patriots. Some Republican lawmakers support this idea. Do you? Nobody makes better and more munitions than the United States of America. And we are open to co-production wherever we can. And because of this administration, we're supercharging our arsenal of freedom, building more, building faster, opening up the Pentagon, ripping through the Pentagon bureaucracy to force industry to move faster.
19:10So there are our stockpiles. There is a crisis with those stockpiles right now.
19:13Margaret Brennan:In the future, there is a crisis with those stockpiles right now. And that is a that is a manufacturing story that the media wants to peddle. And ultimately, we are our stockpiles are are great and they're only get stronger because of the way this president has. You testified under oath that it would take years to rebuild those stockpiles. It was the Biden administration that gave away munitions to the... You don't have to read back to me what I testified. I speculated some munitions take more time than others. We've got lots of them. We're building more than ever before. The Biden administration gave away hundreds of billions to Ukraine.
Read the full transcript
19:45And so President Trump had to refill, and he has, and we have in real time.
19:50Margaret Brennan:So the answer to Zelensky's request is a no or a yes? ultimately we've worked with them and ukraine is buying munitions that europe pays for and it's great to see europe finally step up and pay for those okay well he was asking for the ability to produce but um i'll leave it there for today secretary hicks said thank you for joining us face the nation will be back in a minute stay with us hi i'm angie hicks co-founder of angie When you use Angie for your home projects, you know all your jobs will be done well. Roof repair? Done well. Kitchen sink install? Done well. Deck upgrades? Done well. Electrical upgrade?
20:31Margaret Brennan:Done well. Angie's been connecting homeowners with skilled pros for nearly 30 years, so we know the difference between done and done well. Angie, the one you trust to find the ones you trust. Find a pro for your project at Angie.com. Hey parents, we all know summer break is for fun, but it's also a time when kids can start losing some of the progress they made during the school year. We want them to stay engaged and keep those young minds active. Between camps, vacations, and family time, it can be tough to keep a learning routine going. That's why I want to tell you about IXL. IXL is an award-winning online learning platform that helps kids truly understand what they're learning.
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22:02Margaret Brennan:We're joined now by the top Democrat on the Intelligence Committee, Virginia Senator Mark Warner. It's good to have you here. As you heard from the secretary, a lot of these very important details have to still be negotiated. What do you think, though, of the emerging ceasefire and agreement? Because you favored diplomacy. Listen, if the president can declare victory, so be it. But you heard Pete Heggs' pitch. Let's look at the real facts. 107 days into Donald Trump's war of choice. Can anyone make the case that we or our allies are in a better spot than before this war? The regime's leadership is more radical than ever.
22:41The ability for us to get the enriched uranium out, I believe, will require troops on the ground, which I don't think America wants to do. The idea that we have a 60-day additional negotiation, where does that lead? We'll be here 60 days, still won't have access to it. Clearly, after Hegshef had said, we've destroyed all their capabilities. They still have plenty of missiles and thousands of drones. And the idea that the strait is suddenly going to be magically reopened. Look at the gas prices. They went from$2.80 to$4.20. And I believe they'll go up more because the overall world reserves have all come down.
23:16How is that better for America or better for our allies?
23:20Margaret Brennan:Well, there are a lot of details in here that, like I said, still have to be negotiated. And when we look at Congress's role in terms of peeling back some of these sanctions, this was hugely controversial during the Obama administration. Do you think ultimately that whatever is hammered out by Steve Wyckoff and Jared Kushner and J.D. Vance, the vice president, will come up for approval? Do you get any say? Well, first of all, the idea that these three gentlemen that have very little background in terms of negotiations or the technical nature of nuclear negotiations going against a hardened Iranian team that's been doing this for decades.
24:02You know, I wish we had some of our experts at the table as well, but I'm not sure any of this will become before Congress. And it should. I mean, if the president wanted to start this war, a war of choice, there was no imminent threat from Iran. Come to the Congress, come to the people and lay out the case. He has not. And we have not done the kind of oversight that is required. We are slowly moving along and getting additional Republicans to say stop on the War Powers Act. But Congress has failed miserably.
24:31Margaret Brennan:Before I move on to other things, I just want to put a fine point on the U.S. intelligence assessment was not that Iran was creating a nuclear weapon, but that they wanted the possibility to make one in the future. Given what they have, the nuclear dust, the dirty bomb in the desert scenario, does that still worry you? How concerned should Americans be? Yes, I'm still worried. And, you know, for all this critique of JCPOA, we had international observers. We actually had an alliance there that included the Europeans and Russia and China were all signatories. Now it is America going alone or going with Israel only.
25:05And that does not make us safer. And again, I will be happy to come back on the show and eat my words if the Iranians over the next 60 days give up that enriched uranium.
25:16Margaret Brennan:Yeah. Well, we'll watch for whatever happens next. I want to ask you about surveillance here and the lapse of a key authority. On Thursday, the president did appoint Jay Clayton, he said, who will be the next director of national intelligence instead of Bill Pulte, who I know you oppose. Not only I oppose, but virtually all of the Republican senators who will know anything about national security opposed as well. Yes, there are some pretty colorful statements. But Clayton is the current U.S. attorney for the Southern District of New York, a former SEC chair. How quickly can he move into the role?
25:49Margaret Brennan:I mean, he doesn't necessarily have the kind of extensive national security background that you would expect. He was head of the SEC. And as Southern District of New York, that's where we pursue a lot of our terrorists. I know Jay. I think he's got the right temperament. I've got a lot of questions like, you know, who won the election in 2020? So he at least acknowledges that truthfulness. But remember, Margaret, this was totally caused by Donald Trump. Well, he could have nominated Jay Clayton a week ago. We wouldn't have gone dark. This is an extraordinary series of events that we have to take more time to talk about on the other side of the break.
26:26Margaret Brennan:Let me take it and we'll finish it. We'll be right back.
26:34Margaret Brennan:Welcome back to Face the Nation. We return to our conversation now with Senator Mark Warner. Before the break, Senator, we were talking about the next director of national intelligence. The hearing for Jay Clayton is next week, this Wednesday, right? How quickly can he get confirmed? And what does that do in terms of blocking Bill Pulte from ever taking the job? Well, I've got questions for Jay, like want to make sure that he's going to maintain the integrity of our elections, not try to pull the things that Miss Gabbard did where she was interfering in domestic election activities with the seizure of the ballots in Fulton County.
27:15My hope is if we can get unanimous consent, we could even get him confirmed this week. I would hope that the president would then say to Tulsi Gabbard, who was going to stay till the end of the month, you know, stay at least until Clayton is confirmed or allow the number two to stay.
27:35Margaret Brennan:That's a shocking statement from you because you are a huge critic of Tulsi Gabbard. I am a huge critic. How much damage could Bill Pulte actually do in a matter of days? Well, my fear is not so much the damage he could do on Section 702, which has a full audit trail. If he misuses that, we'll figure it out. But having him exposed where he doesn't even have a security clearance to all our nation's classified programs, out of ignorance, he might give away information. I've had heads of our intelligence communities say to us they're terrified of showing him information. I've had foreign governments express huge concern.
28:12The one thing we know about Bill Pulte is he will do whatever Donald Trump says. He was able to weaponize private mortgage insurance information. Giving them the keys to the 18 intelligence agencies would be a disaster and a national security threat.
28:26Margaret Brennan:So I'm understanding you will withhold your vote to reauthorize FISA based on this. Listen, we have to get FISA reauthorized. We were on a glide path to getting this done. This is a warrantless surveillance tool for foreigners of concern abroad. Foreigners, listening in on foreigners, talking to foreigners abroad. None of this needed to happen if Donald Trump had, he didn't even come out in support of this tool until about six weeks ago. If he put forward Clayton or somebody else six weeks ago. If he would have done even Jay Clayton a few days earlier. I actually think Donald Trump wants this tool to expire because he would then try to blame Democrats.
29:08if, God forbid, if anything happens. And the remarkable thing on this is, normally we come on here and it's Democrats versus Republicans. This one is not. My Republican colleagues have worked hand in glove. If there is something that happens, God forbid, the responsibility lies with one man, Donald Trump.
29:26Margaret Brennan:That is a tremendous statement that you think the president actually wants this tool to not be accessible. I mean, it's a congressional authorization expired on Friday. Your Republican counterpart, Senator Tom Cotton, described the consequences as severe, potentially fatal, considering all the mass gatherings in America right now. How vulnerable is the U.S. right now? Have Google and Verizon and the rest said, if you come and ask me for information, I won't hand it over? What has happened is those investigations that have already started continue. OK. Our ability to continue to listen to bad guys, talking to bad guys abroad continues.
30:07The question is whether you can start new actions. And we are now, and I've not gotten a report yet, whether the telcos and the Googles are going to continue to adhere or whether because they don't have the indemnification, they'll stop participating. We don't have I don't know. As of Sunday morning, I don't have an answer on that. I hope the Justice Department would use all the tools they can to try to encourage them to continue this program for what will be, whether we like it now or not, a short-term lapse.
30:39Margaret Brennan:But Democrats are using their leverage here with FISA to force the president to change his nominees. He did that. So why do we have a Democrat standing up and, for example, blocking unanimous consent in regard to reauthorizing even a short-term surveillance tube? But this seems to be national security risk of huge proportion. National security risk caused because Donald Trump did not put forward Clayton or anyone else that was legitimate until the clock had run out. There is no question. If you got any of my Republican colleagues here, they would agree this was a White House created problem. And finally, somebody got to Trump and say, you've got to put a rational person in, not this guy who's not even got a national security clearance.
31:27We will get Clayton, I hope, confirmed as quickly as possible. We will then move very quickly to get FISA reauthorized. In the interim, I hope the telcos will continue to cooperate with the government.
31:38Margaret Brennan:Senator Mark Warner, thank you for your time today. Thank you, Mark. We'll be right back. Hi, I'm Angie Hicks, co-founder of Angie. When you use Angie for your home projects, you know all your jobs will be done well. Roof repair? Done well. Kitchen sink install? Done well. Deck upgrades? Done well. Electrical upgrade? Done well. Angie's been connecting homeowners with skilled pros for nearly 30 years, so we know the difference between done and done well. Angie, the one you trust to find the ones you trust. Find a pro for your project at Angie.com. The Second World War is the largest event in human history.
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34:00Margaret Brennan:We turn now to Arizona Democratic Senator Mark Kelly, who joins us from Phoenix. Welcome back to face the nation. Senator, I just want to read something that the president posted on his social media account moments ago in regard to the events today in Beirut. He said the attack, the Israeli attack on Beirut should not have happened, particularly on a special day when we are so close to a peace deal with Iran. Israel has a right to defend itself, but the attack it was responding to is very small and meaningless and all sides should stand down. That's a different response than what the Secretary of Defense shared with us.
34:44Margaret Brennan:It seems like the president is worried this could disrupt the negotiation and the possibility of a deal being signed. Do you support the memorandum of understanding? Well, I haven't seen the details yet, Margaret, and I don't know if this is a special day and if we're very close to a deal. I do agree with what the president said about standing down. It's obvious that we're negotiating with the Iranians at this point. I think it's always important for folks to remember how did we get here. We're here because in 2018, Donald Trump tore up the JCPOA and got us into an unauthorized war with the Iranians.
35:26And all this is done for the American people is driven up costs, the costs of energy, so specifically gasoline, the cost of food. And this is at a time when, you know, the American people are having a historic time just affording their lives.
35:44Margaret Brennan:Well, you questioned Secretary Higstead last month about what this war did to American military preparedness, specifically restocking munitions that are depleted by the Iran war. As I questioned him about that, he said it was a media narrative that I was making it up, but also said his testimony before your committee was speculation. What's the reality check there? Do we have a munitions problem? Well, as Secretary Hegseth said in front of the Armed Services Committee, of which I'm a member, this will take years to rebuild these stockpiles of munitions. So of course we have a munitions issue. I mean, it just came from him.
36:32And I think it's widely understood that when you attack over 10 ,000 targets from the air with cruise missiles and ballistic missiles and bombs from airplanes, you are using a lot of munitions and we do not have an endless supply of these things. So now we're in a posture where we've got to be incredibly careful. And this is also at a time when Ukraine continues to need some help. The president now sells munitions to the Europeans because I think, as everybody understands, this is always about the bottom line for him. But Ukraine is an ally. They've been illegally attacked by the Russians, and they still need our assistance.
37:19Margaret Brennan:Well, President Zelensky was on this program and told us he's waiting on President Trump to say yes to a U.S.-Ukraine drone deal. Do you know what the holdup is? I do not at this point, and I don't think there should be a holdup. I also agree that we should consider some co-manufacturing. The Secretary of Defense, Pete Hegseth, clearly indicated that he didn't seem very interested in this. But if Ukraine is going to win, and I got to say right now, it seems like the momentum is on their side. They need additional help from us. So co-production of some interceptors could be a possibility, but also help with their drone manufacturing.
38:06And this could also help us in the future. The Ukrainians are really good at this and we have a lot we could learn from them.
38:13Margaret Brennan:I want to come back to something we were discussing with Senator Warner, and that is the security risk that is resulting from having this warrantless surveillance program, Section 702, suspended right now. You earlier this month voted against a bipartisan bill extending surveillance authority. You said any short or long term extension you would not be in favor of until you solve the Bill Pulte problem. Hasn't that problem been solved now that Jay Clayton is the nominee? Not completely, because when Tulsi Gabbard leaves, we're not so sure if the president is going to put Bill Pulte in as the acting DNI.
38:57But this is very easy to solve. The president could today make it very clear to the American people that Bill Pulte is going to have no role in the office of the director of national intelligence. When I hear that, then we have a very straightforward path to getting Pfizer renewed.
39:18Margaret Brennan:That's the price of your vote, is that statement from the president himself. Well, I mean, you know, I'm constantly reevaluating the situation. I value Pfizer, especially 702B, that allows surveillance of foreign nationals in other countries. It is incredibly important to our national security. And when it lapses, there is some risk. But I also think there is as much, if not more risk of putting somebody, Bill Pulte specifically, who is who is unqualified for this job, Margaret. If you made a list of the one million most qualified Americans for this position, I am very confident that Bill Pulte would not be on that list.
40:00There's risk in putting him in this position. And it's pretty straightforward right now how how we solve this.
40:05Margaret Brennan:Well, the hearing for Jay Clayton, who would be the Senate confirmed head of national intelligence, if he gets all these votes, is this Wednesday. Are you pretty much a definite yes? I mean, given your opposition to Pulte, you need a solution. It sounds like this is not a question. hey i don't know clayton i mean i i i'm reviewing his background he's got a process to go through we need to vet him the statute for this job says somebody will have extensive national security or intelligence experience does he have that i think it's pretty clear he does not is he better than Bill Pulte? Yes, I think a lot better.
40:51Does he meet some kind of maybe a minimum, barely minimum standard? Perhaps. So I'm looking forward to Wednesday. He's got to answer some tough, tough questions from the committee. And I'll evaluate his background and whether or not I think he's prepared to do this job. Wow.
41:10Margaret Brennan:Meanwhile, there are so many issues of serious concern on the national security front, one of them, artificial intelligence. The White House on Friday came out and seemed to really ramp up the dispute with Anthropic. The White House told them to suspend access to any foreign nationals, which led the company to suspend all customers from accessing its most advanced AI systems. Do you know if there is an emergency? And is it, as reported by Semaphore, because there was suspicion that a China-linked group had accessed it? Well, I haven't officially heard that. But Mythos and some of their other models from AI companies are incredibly capable.
42:04And some of the capabilities that these models have to access systems, not only federal government systems, but financial systems is very concerning to us. So we've got to take some time with these tools and do extensive evaluations as to what is the risk to the American people when we release these. So I agree with the administration on this. We've got to be incredibly careful and the AI companies and, you know, I think Anthropic is a good example, seems to be willing to work with the federal government on this to make sure that we do not make a mistake and release something that we will later regret.
42:49Margaret Brennan:Senator Mark Kelly, thank you for your time today. We'll be back in a moment. Why have we asked our contractor we found on Angie.com to be our kid's legal guardian? because he took such good care when redoing our basement that we knew we could trust him to care for our kids, all eight of them, should something happen to us. Are you my dad now? Uh, no, sorry, I do basements. Connecting homeowners with skilled pros for over 30 years. Angie, the one you trust to find the ones you trust. Find pros for all your home projects at Angie.com. Hey, parents, we all know summer break is for fun, but it's also a time when kids can start losing some of the progress they made during the school year.
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44:37Margaret Brennan:learning program out there at the best price. We're joined now by Gary Cohn, who is the top economic advisor to President Trump in his first term. He is currently vice chairman at IBM. Good to have you back here. Thanks for having me. So Secretary Hegseth didn't give a lot of clarity on the exact time. He said both the Strait of Hormuz would be immediately open, but that it could take up to 30 days. The bottom line for the economy here, it's going to be impacted by what happens with oil and gas prices. Should American consumers expect that the prices they're paying for their food and their gas and everything else is going to fall like a rock?
45:17Well, it's not going to fall like a rock overnight. We're going to have to see exactly what happens in the straits. it was not clear how quickly they'll open. But as they do open, we will start getting a change in psychology. People will start thinking that prices are going down and they will continue to go down. When you're in an upward price environment, people tend to fill their tanks up early because they think the price is going to be higher next week and they tend to not let their tanks go down. When you're in an environment when you think the price is going to get cheaper, people tend to drive their cars till they're almost empty because they think the longer I wait, the cheaper gas will be.
45:54So we're going to be in a psychological change when the Straits open and as oil starts flowing out. We will start to see some impact. We've actually already seen some impact. You know, gas prices are, I won't say well, but they're 10 percent off their recent highs. And if we open the Straits, I think we'll continue to see these gas prices come down. But as you also point out, it's not just the price of gasoline. It's the price of groceries. The price of energy feeds through the entire economy. It feeds through manufacturing. It feeds through delivery. It feeds through everything we consume as daily consumers.
46:24Margaret Brennan:And what you're talking about in prices, you're talking about the price at market. But for the price for consumers, if companies have already jacked up the price of food, are they really going to bring it back down? Well, they will bring it back. The price of energy will come back down. So the energy component will come back down. whether actual food at the store will come back down, you know, it will take some time. There's always there's always some pressure and it takes a first mover to show some leadership. You know, we've seen prices go up. And then if someone wants to bring more and more retail traffic into their store, they tend to cut the price of a necessity good.
46:59And you as a consumer say, hey, that necessity good is cheaper at that store. I then go into that store and the other store needs to match their price. So the open market will drive prices down over time.
47:10Margaret Brennan:Because as Senator Warner was talking about, those fuel inventories, commercial fuel inventories, they're hitting some risky levels in July that could cause a secondary price spike. Goldman Sachs said, what,$10 higher per barrel than before the war because there's this new security premium built in here. Given all the forces you are seeing in the economy right now, do you think the Federal Reserve can really do the kind of rate cut that President Trump very publicly says he wants to see? We have exhausted a lot of the global supply of oil. All the major economies do carry an excess reserve. And those excess reserves are at relatively low levels.
47:48So I understand what everyone's concerned about. So getting oil back online now is important. When it comes to the Federal Reserve, look, we have a new Federal Reserve chairperson, Kevin Warsh. I think Kevin is completely acknowledging where we are in the economy. He understands that we've got inflation at three-year highs. He also understands that the job market is relatively, yes, relatively strong. And he also understands there's pressure on him to lower interest rates. I think Kevin will remove himself from the political pressure and he will do the right thing economically. Kevin is, you know, this is not his first time in the Federal Reserve.
48:22He was a Fed governor before. I think Kevin will approach this as a very traditional Fed governor. He will stay heavily involved in his lane in monetary policy. I think he will stay outside of the secondary issues that the Fed has gotten in more recently. And I think he will also be in a position where he will move based on what he is actually seeing in the economy, not what he hopes he sees in the economy.
48:46Margaret Brennan:He's also made clear he thinks sort of how we judge the economy may need to change and look at data differently. To that point, what we saw this past week with SpaceX was pretty incredible. Elon Musk is the first trillionaire with a T. SpaceX, they make rocket ships. They want to put AI data centers in space. They want to mine asteroids. I mean, it sounds like it's straight out of the movies, but this was a huge publicly traded debut this week, the largest ever. We're going to see more AI companies also go public. Where are we in the boom? So, Margaret, this is a time to celebrate. We should celebrate America's entrepreneurial spirit.
49:26We should celebrate America's engineering capabilities. We should celebrate the fact that we are solving some of the biggest problems in the world. And if we in America were not solving these problems and the Chinese were, we would A, be way behind them or B, paying them to solve our problems if they were willing to sell us a solution. So I look at this as a massive celebration in American entrepreneurial spirit. As you said, it isn't stopping with SpaceX. And SpaceX is now about a 25-year-old company, one where Elon Musk himself said there's a 10 % chance this company even survives. We now have a handful of companies almost of that size that are changing the way you and I live our lives and how we're going to change our lives going forward.
50:08And these are American-based companies, American entrepreneurs, American technology, and American engineers. We should be lucky that we have these companies here domestically and we're not having to entice them into the United States.
50:20Margaret Brennan:What they're facilitating with this transformation, there's this whole debate about whether it's good or bad for American workers. The Wall Street Journal editorial board, conservative leaning, as you know, was extolling the benefit of SpaceX creating jobs for working class communities and said they gave stock options to their workers. So they made blue collar workers arguably millionaires. Right. But by doing something like that. Is that I mean, this is a special case, clearly. But what is the impact on blue collar workers? So you're talking about AI generally. So there's a large debate going on in the economy today, in the business today.
50:58And the debate is, is this time different or is this time the same? I'm in the camp that this time is the same. And what I mean by that is if you look back at all of the major technological advancements that we have lived through. And before we were live, we read stories about how this was the end of employment. If you go back to the cotton gin or the internal combustion engine or the telephone or the cell phone or the Internet, All of these technological inventions were supposed to be the demise of human capital. I think what we have found in the history is they're not the demise of human capital.
51:31What happens is the gross domestic product, the GDP of the country grows. As it grows, we create more and more jobs. And I think that's what's going on here. There's another phenomenon that's equally as important here. The largest companies in America historically have been asset-like companies, and they've been intellectual property heavy. The largest companies in America today are becoming a combination of asset-based companies and intellectual companies. The assets need to be built by people.
51:59Margaret Brennan:Gary Cohn, good to have your insights as always. We'll be right back. Before we go today, a quick update on a story we've been tracking. President Trump's name was removed yesterday from the facade of the Kennedy Center here in Washington, D.C. after a court ruling last month ordered it to be taken down, declaring Congress gave the Kennedy Center its name and only Congress can change it. A crowd of people gathered Friday night waiting to watch its removal. In the end, the name of the 45th and 47th president adorned the building for almost six months. It was installed in December after the Center's board, controlled by the president's handpicked trustees, voted to rebrand with the addition of the Trump moniker.
52:40Margaret Brennan:I'm Margaret Brennan, and this has been Face the Nation. The senior executive producer of Face the Nation is Mary Hager Laird. The executive producer is Anne Hsu. This broadcast was directed by Shelley Schwartz. Face the Nation originates from CBS News in Washington. For more Face the Nation, we're online at facethenation.com and on YouTube. Face the Nation is also rebroadcast on our CBS News 24-7 streaming network at 12.30 on Sundays. It's available through our Paramount Plus app. This is the sound of captivity. This is the sound of rescue. And this is the sound of freedom. Give Armenia's captive bears a second chance by supporting International Animal Rescue.
53:34Margaret Brennan:Call 508-826-1083 or search The Great Bear Rescue to learn more. There's a lot going on right now. Mounting economic inequality, threats to democracy, environmental disaster, the sour stench of chaos in the air. I'm Brooke Gladstone host of WNYC's On the Media want to understand the reasons and the meanings of the narratives that led us here and maybe how to head them off at the pass that's On the Media's specialty take a listen wherever you get your podcasts
From the publisher
This week on Face the Nation, the U.S. and Iran might be on the brink of a preliminary peace deal. As the nation's capital gets ready for a UFC fight night on president Trump's birthday, officials say a deal to end a war in the Middle East is imminent.
We get the latest in an exclusive interview with Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth. Plus, we hear from two key Democrats on committees with oversight on national security, Senators Mark Warner and Mark Kelly.
Then, despite a sharp jump in the inflation rate, now at its highest level in three years, President Trump is optimistic the end of the war will also mean the end of surging energy prices.
We get a reality check from one of Trump's top economic advisers from his first term, IBM Vice Chairman Gary Cohn.