Secretary Marco Rubio, Speaker Mike Johnson, Minority Leader Chuck Schumer

0:00I'm Margaret Brennan in Washington and this week on face the nation is is is Israel's war with Hamas finally coming to an end. Meanwhile, the government shutdown continues with no end in sight. Two years after the October 7th massacre that killed more than 1200 Israelis, is a serious plan for a full hostage release and ceasefire in Gaza finally materializing? Secretary of State Marco Rubio will tell us where that deal stands and what's ahead for Gaza, where more than 67 ,000 have been killed in the war's destruction. Plus, the Trump administration continues to ramp up its federal presence in blue cities.

0:41We're going to straighten them out one by one. It's the enemy from within, and we have to handle it before it gets out of control. And we'll take a closer look at the Trump Department of War's new rules for the military. Illinois Democratic Senator Tammy Duckworth will join us, as well as retired Army Lieutenant General Ben Hodges. Finally, as Congress continues their standoff on government funding, we'll talk with House Speaker Mike Johnson and Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer about why Americans say the shutdown is hurting both political parties. It's all just ahead on Face the Nation.

1:34Good morning and welcome to Face the Nation. When word came late Friday that Hamas was open to the 20-point plan devised by President Trump and Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu to return the hostages and stop the war in Gaza, Mr. Trump took to social media. This is a big day. We'll see how it all turns out. We have to get the final word down in concrete. Negotiators for all sides will begin meetings in Cairo tomorrow with that exact goal in mind. Special envoy to the Mideast, Steve Wyckoff, and the president's son-in-law, Jared Kushner, will represent the U.S. We'll talk with the president's top diplomat and national security advisor, Marco Rubio, in a moment.

2:15But first, our Deborah Pata reports from Israel. Suspended between hope and dread. Families and friends of hostages who have waited nearly two years for their loved ones to come home are not celebrating yet. We have lived through Hamas lives before. We cannot let another deal collapse. Many Israelis worry the danger lies within. Right-wing members of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's ruling coalition, Ben Gafir and Bezal El Smotrich, have threatened to collapse his government if Hamas still exists after the hostages are released and we know that the closer we get the more bentville smotrich and netanyahu will do everything to sabotage our chance to embrace our loved ones the terms of the proposed deal take the right-wing dream of annexing gaza off the table and demand a staged israeli withdrawal from the territory hamas has agreed to release all the hostages in exchange for prisoners and surrender governing power in Gaza.

3:27But it is the things left unsaid that could upend a deal. Hamas has made no mention of disarmament, a key Israeli demand. Palestinians are just as desperate for a ceasefire. President Trump had ordered Israel to stop bombing Gaza after Hamas' response. But not all the guns went silent. Azmi Hamdan's 12-year-old granddaughter was killed in an Israeli strike yesterday. What was her crime? He sobbed. Shrapnel pierced her chest and she died. This is two years of a relentless attack on everything they hold dear. We spoke to UNICEF's James Elder in Gaza. How important is it right now for the children of Gaza?

4:13Oh, it's everything. It's everything. They're holding on. They really are. It's day by day. And there'll be a lot of pressure on both Israel and Hamas when negotiations around logistics for a hostage prisoner swap begin in Cairo tomorrow. We turn now to Secretary of State and National Security Advisor Marco Rubio. Good morning to you, Mr. Secretary. Good morning. It would be extraordinary to end what has been one of Israel's longest and bloodiest wars. The prime minister said he's only allowing these talks that will be underway in Egypt to go for a few days. What exactly is the deadline for Hamas and the terror groups who are holding hostages?

4:56When do they need to release them? Well, yeah, so a couple of points. Hamas has obviously, look, we're dealing with Hamas. OK, so let's take that with it for what it is. But they have said that they agree with the president's framework for the release of the hostages. So what those talks should be about and some of that conversation is already happening now. It's not waiting until Monday in Cairo is the logistics behind the release of these hostages. How do you stop the fighting? Who's going to go in and get them? You know, when are they going to be released? Where are they picked up? What are the processes for this?

5:25That's what should be. That's what this conversation should be about at this point, because they've agreed to the framework of it. Then there's second beyond that is what happens after that. And that is, how do we ensure that we can create and help build a Gaza free of terrorism, free of Hamas, free of anything like Hamas? And that's going to take work and some time, not just to agree on, but to implement. But that's important because that's what's going to bring a permanent end to these hostilities in the long term. And so those are the two phases here. But right now, the most emergent and immediate phase is the one that Hamas claims to have agreed to already.

5:58And that is, they are prepared to release the hostages. Let's discuss through the mediators the logistics and the mechanics behind how that happens. And that has to happen very quickly. That cannot drag on. So my sources have indicated to me that because the upper echelon of Hamas fighters has been so decimated, communication is difficult. The other terror groups who also hold hostages in Gaza aren't necessarily easily controlled by them. How do you manage around this reality? And is a full release by October 7th the demand? Well, I don't know about the date. I'd be great if it was before October.

6:34So we wish it would happen yesterday. But there are realities here. And then there are things people do to impede progress. Reality is this is a war zone. I mean, this is a place that suffered a tremendous amount of destruction. That fighting needs to stop. You can't release hostages while there's still bombardments going on. But at the same time, that can't, you know, so that has to end. But that has to stop. But you also have to work through the other logistics. Who's going to go pick them up? We saw how this happened in the past. You know, the Red Cross would go in. that would be handed over through this process, etc.

7:02And so all of that's what has to be worked on and is being worked on as we speak. So I'm not telling you there aren't some logistical hurdles here, but I am saying that the expectation is that this happens quickly. And I would also say that while we want all the hostages to be released, if there are five that are ready to go right now, they should be released right now. If another 10 are ready to go in 12 hours after that, the next group should come out. But ultimately, they should all come out. And I think what you're hearing from people is, yes, There has to be some logistics that have to be worked through.

7:29But what you can't have and what we can't see and what we hope we will not see is that we get into these talks and these talks are then delayed and it looks like they're unnecessarily delaying it. That would be a very bad sign. Let's hope that's not what happens. And it's going to be very important for our partners in the region who signed on to this deal, the UAE, Qatar, Turkey, Jordan, Egypt, etc., for them to be putting a lot of pressure on Hamas to make sure this happens as quickly as possible. But you pointed out that releases can't happen when bombardments are underway. Our CBS team in Gaza tells us that there are Israeli bombardments underway.

8:02There were strikes Saturday. Tens killed, more injures, bombings continuing. One incident included 10 people killed when they tried to check in on their homes in areas where there are also military sites. Is that acceptable? Well, I think ultimately what you're going to see here is that when an agreement is reached on, these are logistics behind when the release is going to happen, then I think you'll see those bombardments stop. And I think some of that activity has already decreased somewhat. So there's a framework here. And the framework is simple. Once you agree on the logistics of how this is going to happen, I think the Israelis and everyone acknowledge you can't release hostages in the middle of strikes.

8:35So the strikes will have to stop. And as you saw, the president state that very clearly on Friday, where he asked the Israelis to begin to pull back to create the conditions for these releases. So this is not a violation of that. There's going to be a lot of complexities. Well, we're trying to get the hostages out. That's the bottom line. We want to get the hostages out as soon as possible for that to happen. There can't be a war going on in the middle of it. And Hamas has to agree to turn them over. We have to have the right people go in and get them. That's what we're going to focus on right now.

9:03And that's what we're going to that's what we've been focused on. And that's what the talks are going to be about today on Monday on Tuesday to get this done as soon as possible. I hear you. There are two phases here with the Hamas releasing the hostages is the one you're most focused on. But big picture, does the United States assess that Israel has so reduced the threat posed by Hamas that it can end combat and transition to the kind of lower tempo counterterrorism campaign that, say, the United States carries out against terrorist threats to this country? Well, look, I mean, the ideal outcome here is you don't have to carry out any counterterrorism missions because there are no terrorists in Gaza.

9:41But can they take the win? Can Netanyahu say he won this war? Well, first of all, creating a Gaza or setting up a Gaza that is governed by Palestinian technocrats that are not terrorists and are not sponsoring terrorism, that's not going to happen in 72 hours. That's going to take some time to build up and it's going to require a lot of work and a lot of international support. And that's the end goal here of this entire endeavor after you get the hostages out. By the way, if you can't get the hostages out, you have no hope of getting that done. So that's why I say, you know, that these two steps need to happen.

10:13But it's going to take a lot of hard work and time. You know, you're trying to build something that doesn't exist right now, which is a sort of civilian Palestinian leadership that's not tied to terrorism. That doesn't exist right now. It's going to take a lot of help from international partners. That's why having the countries in the region and the Europeans and all others involved in this in both money and resources. That's why building that coalition is so critical and then implementing it is not going to be easy. It's going to take some time here. But I think certainly for the first time in a long time, you see the framework and the outlines of something that could work.

10:44But combat operations can end. Well, that's the goal here. You wouldn't need combat operations if there weren't terrorists there. But by the same token, I would remind everybody, if in fact at the end of all this, terrorism and a terrorist group remains active inside of Gaza, you're not going to have peace. That's the fundamental truth here that everyone needs to accept. You're never going to have peace in Gaza as long as there are terrorists operating from that territory, threatening the security of Israel. But in terms of occupation and combat operations, that's different than a counterterrorism campaign.

11:15But let me ask you specifically what President Trump said. He told Barack Ravid of Axios that Prime Minister Netanyahu, quote, took it very far and Israel lost a lot of support in the world. Now I'm going to get all that support back. At what point did President Trump decide that Netanyahu took this fight in Gaza or his operations throughout the Middle East? When did he take it too far? No, I think the president's observation basically is that because of the length of this war and how it's gone, we've all seen the international narrative. We've all seen it. Whether we agree with it or not, we have seen countries like the UK, Australia, Canada and others come out and sort of signal support or announce support for a Palestinian state.

11:56We have seen, even in our own domestic politics, some of the attacks on Israel. We don't forget what happened on October 7th. That's the other thing the president repeatedly points to is remember October 7th. But whether we agree with it or not, we have seen the impact that this has had on Israel's global standing. And I think that's the point the president is making here, is that whether you believe it was justified or not, right or not, that you cannot ignore the impact that this has had on Israel's global standing. That said, if we never want to see this happen again, meaning a war like this, you can never have another October 7th or anything like it ever happen again.

12:30And that's the thing the president has reiterated and repeatedly made clear to our partners in the region. And that is if you truly want peace and stability and a better future for the Palestinian people, then there has to be a Gaza that is not governed or controlled in any way, shape or form by Hamas or anything that looks like Hamas. Does the United States support a Palestinian state? Because point 19 in your White House plan talks about a credible pathway to Palestinian self-determination and statehood. Well, we've always said, I mean, this has been a consistent position throughout, that the only way you're ever going to have anything that looks like statehood is in a negotiated deal with the Israelis.

13:08We are so far from that right now. Prime Minister Netanyahu opposes a Palestinian state and thanked President Trump for speaking against recognition of one. That's why I'm asking you to clarify. Well, we haven't recognized a Palestinian state. The United States has not. And right now there's no point in doing that because it's not even possible. That's not even a realistic thing right now because who would govern that Palestinian state? Well, it's.19 in your plan. Who would govern it? I thought. Well, but that's talking about a pathway long term and in the future. Right. But before you can even get there, okay, that's, you know, before you can even get there, you have to have someone to turn that land.

13:40Israel's made clear they have no interest in governing Gaza. They have no interest in occupying Gaza long term and being the government of Gaza. I think Israel, I can't speak for Israel, but I think Israel would tell you they would love to turn over Gaza to a Palestinian organization that isn't terroristic. They would love to do that, but that doesn't exist right now. That has to be built, and that's going to take time. You're not going to build that in 72 hours. You're not going to build that in 72 weeks. I mean, it's going to take some time to get to that point. So that's the pathway this discusses.

14:08And I think that if you look forward into the future, where there is suddenly a Palestinian government-like organization that can govern territory, then there's a lot of possibilities. But that has to be negotiated and agreed to by Israel. In the end, it's very simple. There can be peace in Gaza. There can be Palestinian governance in Gaza, whether you call it statehood or something else, as long as it is not terrorists that are in charge of that territory. That's what Israel agreed to when they turned over Gaza in the first place. And then Hamas took over Gaza and turned it into a terrorist camp.

14:37And that's what's led us to the point that we are at today. So we can get off that road and onto a different road. There are a lot of possibilities long term and in the future. But right now, maybe we are far from that right now. We need to get these hostages out and we just need technocrats that are not terrorists to be able to begin the basic reconstruction of Gaza. That interview was taped earlier today. With the camera off, Secretary Rubio clarified that President Trump still opposes Israeli annexation of the West Bank, though there is no mention of the occupied territory in the 20-point White House peace plan.

15:10Face the Nation will be back in one minute. Stay with us. We always recommend Shopify. It took us from an idea to a real business. We got set up, I think, in less than a day with very little effort. We could just focus on the supply chains and the product development. Shopify gives us the ability to customize without the complexity. We can change something without introducing fragility or having to pay a developer. We're Thirsty Turtle, and we leveled up our business with Shopify. Start your free trial at shopify.com slash au. We turn now to the government shutdown, now in its fifth day. House Speaker Mike Johnson joins us from Capitol Hill.

15:51Good morning to you, Speaker. Anyone up there to negotiate with? Yeah, there's not, Margaret. Good morning. Good to hear your voice. It's kind of quiet around here. It has been for the last several days, and it's very unfortunate because as we're talking, real people are being adversely affected around the country in some and in very substantial ways. I pray that more Democrats in the Senate will come to their senses and do the right thing. And when they have the next opportunity on Monday to vote to open the government, I surely hope that they will. Well, you did send your lawmakers home to their districts, which suggests we've got probably another week ahead of us of this shutdown.

16:26You mentioned the real world impact. Federal workers, including our military, would miss their first paychecks October 15th or 16th. How long should workers plan to be without that income? Well, the only person who can answer that question is your next guest, and that's Chuck Schumer, because the House did its job. The reason that House Republicans are home working in their districts, and I suspect House Democrats should be as well, because we did that. We passed a bipartisan, very clean, continuing resolution a couple of weeks back now and sent it to the Senate. It's very important to note what was in that.

17:00It was only 24 pages in length, Margaret. It was a good faith effort to keep the government open for seven more weeks so that Republicans and Democrats in a bipartisan fashion could work together to fund the government with the appropriations process. Chuck Schumer always voted for those in the past. In fact, he did it 13 times during the four years of the Biden administration. But now suddenly he's commanding his Democrats in the Senate not to do it. And there's one simple reason why. They need political cover from the far left corner of the base. He's afraid Chuck Schumer individually asked him about it.

17:30He's afraid he's going to get a challenge from the Marxist left in his party because that's the new wave in New York. That's what this is about. Chuck Schumer is trying to show a fight against the president and Republicans. And real Americans are being harmed in the process of this political game. OK, well, Democrats, as you know, want to have another conversation in regard to extending some tax subsidies that lower the cost of some health care that's purchased through the Obamacare market. To that point, though, you're talking about the politics of this. Our CBS polling that we released today shows neither party's stance is viewed as worth shutting down this government.

18:05The Democrats want to talk about the tax credits. You know premium pricing is already being set now, even if this doesn't expire until end of the year. Your fellow Republican Jen Kagan said raising costs for families, little notice and potentially stripping them of access to care is simply unacceptable. Doesn't she have a point here? There's a lot of points to be made on that. And we're ready to talk about, negotiate and do all of that. But they're trying to create that as a red herring here right now. Margaret, this is a funding bootstrap measure, a very simple, very conventional thing that's been done here all the time.

18:40This is the way it works now. We need a little more time on the clock to finish the appropriations process. We have plenty of time to debate that very complicated issue. It's not a simple one. There has to be reforms to that subsidy because there's a lot of fraud, waste, and abuse involved in it. There's 535 members of Congress in the House and Senate. There's probably 400 different ideas on how to fix that. But we need a little time to do it. We're not saying that we won't negotiate it. We're saying turn the lights back on in Congress. Get troops paid, TSA agents and Border Patrol agents paid who are trying to protect us.

19:12Restore the health care programs that are being stalled for veterans and Medicare recipients who are getting home health. It's all stalled now. Restore FEMA flood insurance programs in the middle of a hurricane program. And WIC programs for young women. We've got to get this fixed now. But just to clarify what you were just saying, do I hear you correctly? that you, as Speaker of the House, want to see the tax credit extended at a future date. Is that what you are saying? No, I haven't staked out any position on it yet because that's not how this process works. We're in a deliberative body. Right, I'm asking your position because you said you would be willing to talk about it.

19:48I'm telling you my position. I'm the Speaker of the House. What I have to do is draw consensus among 435 members of my body. I don't get out and project what the final conclusion is going to be. And I've told Chuck Schumer and Hakeem Jeffries most recently in the Oval Office with the president just five, six days ago, keep the government open so that we can do that job. We were always planning to do that. Again, the funding runs out December 31st. The month of October is a critical time for us to get to this. But we can't when Chuck Schumer keeps voting to shut the government down for political reasons.

20:21That's purely and simply what's happening here. You believe you have time here, but our partner at health policy think tank KFF reported 80 percent of all premium tax credits went to Obamacare enrollees in Trump one states, red states. Do you really do you worry at all that this stance could backfire that waiting to talk about the tax credit could hurt you? No, it could hurt your voters. No, no, no, because we have time to do it again. The funding does it right on into December 31st. We're talking about a September 30th deadline that's now passed to keep the government open so that Republicans and Democrats can have that very debate.

21:00Chuck Schumer has shut it off because he needs a political argument right now. 100 percent, Margaret, that's what this is about. Play the tape. Play the tape of Chuck Schumer saying consistently for the last 30 years that CRs are dangerous, destructive and selfish. He is now the captain of it. And it's on him. Republicans in the House, Senate and the White House want to keep the government open. We have voted to do so. But you are committing to have that conversation about health care is what I understand you saying. It was always going to continue. They're making this up. That is a red herring.

21:31They're trying to say that this fight right now is about that. That wasn't even a fight. It's a joke. Call them on it. Well, the director of the Economic Council, Kevin Hassett, was on another network this morning and said it is up to the president of the United States to decide when the mass layoffs will begin. He seems to be indicating the president is using those rifts, those reduction in force threats as leverage here. Do you know how quickly those layoffs will start? I don't know. I anticipate it will have to be soon because Chuck Schumer turned off the funding sources and whomever is the chair of the office.

22:03Do you want that as leverage? No, neither does the president. No, the president wants the government open. He's pleaded with Schumer and Hakeem in person in his office to do that. And they said no because they want to do this. You know what they counter propose? They want to spend one point five trillion dollars and they want to return hardworking taxpayer dollars to fund health care for illegal aliens. It is in their bill. Go to speaker.gov and see it for yourself. Page 57, section 2141. They're using this for political games and it is shameful and real people are getting hurt. Well, that I have looked at that text.

22:38It doesn't explicitly say what you are indicating. But unauthorized immigrants are eligible for ACA benefits. It does. It says very simply they want to repeal the changes that we made in the working families tax cut, the one big beautiful bill. And what those changes were is it removed health care going to illegal aliens. It removed all the fraud, waste and abuse. And the Congressional Budget Office, CBO, said it achieved the desired result. They project it will save almost$200 billion. Chuck Schumer's proposal on page 57 wants to return that$200 billion of taxpayer funds to pay for illegal aliens and other non-citizens.

23:13That is a fact. And you can check it out on my website, speaker.gov. Don't trust me. Look at Chuck Schumer's own paperwork. Speaker of the House, Mike Johnson, thank you for your time this morning. Coming up next, Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer. Stay with us to hear what Democrats have to say about the impasse when we come back. Hey, this is Richard Deitch, the host of the Sports Media Podcast. If you're interested in what's happening with all the places where you consume sports, the Sports Media Podcast has you covered. I've been turning down interviews all week. Hoda Copy reached out, Oprah, George Stephanopoulos.