In short
Face the Nation discusses (1) whether Democrats can unite to flip the House and Senate, after progressive primary upsets; (2) confirmation of Trump Attorney General nominee Todd Blanche and concerns about DOJ “weaponization”; (3) Social Security insolvency and proposed bipartisan process; (4) public health threats—foodborne outbreaks (cyclospora, salmonella), measles resurgence, vaccine misinformation, and autism research; (5) cyberattacks on U.S. water systems.
Guests and backgrounds
Sen. Bill Cassidy (R-LA), U.S. Senator and physician-turned-politician; Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-VT), self-described Democratic Socialist and former presidential candidate; Dr. Jay Bhattacharya, NIH director (also temporarily overseeing CDC).
Key claims + notable examples
Cassidy says Blanche’s confirmation was a “gradation of gray,” citing DOJ metrics focused on violent crime, trafficking, and Medicare/Medicaid fraud; he condemns anti-Muslim/anti-Semitic rhetoric. He pushes a bipartisan Social Security “process” with open hearings and considers ideas like eliminating the payroll tax cap. Sanders argues Michigan/Minnesota show voters rejecting “establishment” politics and super PAC dominance (Michigan: Abdul El-Sayed outspent 9-to-1, with AIPAC spending about $30M in the Democratic primary). Bhattacharya says cyclospora and salmonella outbreaks are being traced and recalls are underway; measles is rising (only 10 states above 95% coverage), and he urges MMR vaccination. He also emphasizes restoring public trust after COVID-era controversies and defends NIH’s autism research. Nicole Skanga reports cyber attackers locked out water operators and targeted industrial control systems in at least a dozen states, with no drinking-water impacts reported.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOInterview with Senator Bill Cassidy
1:55 to 4:00
Senator Bill Cassidy discusses his vote on Attorney General Todd Blanche and the implications.
“Good morning and welcome to Face the Nation.”
Emotional Response to Voting Decisions
4:00 to 5:30
Senator Cassidy shares his emotional connection to his role and the weight of his decisions.
“When we spoke back in June, you were specific in some of your concerns.”
Concerns About Attorney General's Policies
5:30 to 8:00
Discussion on the implications of Todd Blanche’s policies and the judicial environment.
“And that, frankly, almost weighed to vote no.”
Condemnation of Hate Speech
8:00 to 10:00
Senator Cassidy addresses recent hate-filled remarks by Republican colleagues and condemns them.
“The Muslims that I typically work with are doctors working in a remote area of Louisiana who otherwise would not have a physician unless Dr.”
Social Security Crisis Discussion
10:00 to 12:00
Senator Cassidy highlights the urgent need for Social Security reform amidst looming insolvency.
“I'm a lousy politician, but a good senator.”
Bipartisanship in Social Security Solutions
12:00 to 14:00
Exploration of bipartisan efforts to address Social Security issues and proposed solutions.
“So implicit in your kind of question is that you're going to cut benefits, that you're going to do something harmful.”
Senator Cassidy on Iran Diplomacy
14:01 to 16:15
Senator Cassidy discusses the need for public dialogue on the Iran situation and the ongoing hostilities.
“You had a really tough exchange with the president over the Iran war, and you said you were not getting enough information at that time.”
Senator Sanders on Midterms and Economic Inequality
16:21 to 19:18
Senator Sanders discusses the upcoming midterms, economic inequality, and the importance of progressive candidates.
“Tuesday in Minnesota, progressive candidate Peggy Flanagan, the current lieutenant governor who you have endorsed, is taking on a more moderate candidate, Angie Craig.”
Campaign Finance and Super PACs Discussion
19:18 to 27:54
Senator Sanders shares his views on campaign finance, PACs, and their influence in elections.
“Who is now running for the Senate in Maine?”
Campaign Finance and Super PACs Discussion
28:01 to 28:32
Senator Sanders shares his views on campaign finance, PACs, and their influence in elections.
“Life can feel overwhelming, but you don't have to go through it alone.”
Show all 17 chapters
Concerns About Food Supply and Outbreaks
28:48 to 31:18
Discussing the cyclospora and salmonella outbreaks affecting food safety.
“The cyclospora outbreak linked to iceberg lettuce from Mexico is now in 15 states.”
Vaccination and Public Trust
31:18 to 33:54
Dr. Bhattacharya discusses the importance of measles vaccination and public trust in health measures.
“states have measles vaccine coverage rates above the 95 percent threshold in the prior school year.”
Misinformation and Public Health
33:54 to 36:06
Exploring the impact of misinformation on public health and how to regain trust.
“But on this issue, you were down in Atlanta this past week.”
Executive Orders and Autism Research
36:06 to 38:48
Discussion on federal initiatives regarding autism research and vaccine trust.
“public health during the pandemic led to many people losing trust in public health.”
Vaccination Confidence and School Safety
38:48 to 42:01
Addressing parents' concerns about vaccinating children for school.
“There's so many families around the country that have had faced the issues of this.”
Addressing Public Trust in Vaccination
42:01 to 42:51
Discussion on the importance of vaccination and public trust in health measures.
“But it is it is a mistake and it contributes the lack of public trust.”
Details of Cybersecurity Breaches and Responses
43:00 to 46:30
Insight into how cyber attackers breached water systems and the implications.
“Nicole, I've heard you talking about it this week, and it was really fascinating to me.”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00Margaret Brennan:I'm Margaret Brennan in Washington and this week on Face the Nation, can a fractured Democratic Party unite to flip the House and Senate in the fall, plus the challenges facing public health? As we hit the final stretch of the summer of 26, the Senate has wrapped up and headed home. One of its last items of business, confirming President Trump's nominee for Attorney General, Todd Blanche, who squeaked through by one vote, despite concerns about the administration's weaponization of the Justice Department. We'll talk with the Republican who put him over the top, Louisiana Senator Bill Cassidy. Plus, following another progressive over-establishment upset in the Michigan Senate primary, will the Democratic Party unite?
0:48Margaret Brennan:And how will those further left candidates fair against Republicans in the fall. Sometimes, you know, intra-family squabbles are the biggest ones. But we all know that when we walk out the House, we stand united. We'll talk with self-described Democratic Socialist Bernie Sanders about how his party can push back against this Republican attack line. The radical left, the maniacs, they're trying to destroy it with the disaster known as not socialism, communism. It's communism. Then amid a growing number of infections from cyclospora, salmonella, measles, and yes, COVID-19, we'll talk with Dr. Jay Bhattacharya, the head of the National Institutes of Health.
1:36Margaret Brennan:It's all just ahead on Face the Nation.
1:55Margaret Brennan:Good morning and welcome to Face the Nation. Both the House and the Senate are now gone for the summer. But we begin with one lawmaker who hasn't taken off quite yet for his home state, Louisiana Republican Senator Bill Cassidy. Good morning and thank you for delaying your departure to be here in person. It's good to talk to you. Good to be with you. Good morning. So you were skeptical. You made that clear back when we spoke in June of Todd Blanche and confirming him to be attorney general. You did late Friday confirm him, but you said you're not entirely satisfied. You no doubt will have concern in the future.
2:30Margaret Brennan:And I want to play for our viewers what you said. Take a listen. I'll be criticized for this vote. What's new?
2:40But.
2:46The people of Louisiana can be assured that I worked hard to understand the issue and to make the right decision.
2:58Margaret Brennan:You were emotional there. Your voice cracked. Why and why do you think you're going to be criticized? Oh, you're going to be criticized. My voice cracked because my wife thinks it's endearing. I think it's embarrassing. But sometimes you're aware of the incredible privilege of representing your state and your nation. Incredible privilege. And as a little boy, I would read history books. And I'd read about these great decisions on the Senate floor. And the fact that I have the ability to participate. And after an intense 48 hours of coming up with a decision that wasn't black or white, you can argue one way or the other.
3:33And you can come up with just this side or just that side of approval. Now, the fact that I, Bill Cassidy, was able to do that, I am so privileged. and whenever I just for a second am hit by the gravity of that and the honor of that, I get emotional. And that's just, again, my wife finds it endearing. I find it embarrassing. Well, it does have a great gravity to a decision like this.
3:59Margaret Brennan:And you weighed it very carefully. When we spoke back in June, you were specific in some of your concerns. And I know acting, Attorney General Blanche now, who's set for that confirmation, had posted documents, including he rescinded the order to create the anti-weaponization fund. And he had an unsigned statement in which he narrowed the terms of the Trump IRS protections that you had objected to. Now they'll apply just to Trump, Don Jr., Eric, and the Trump organization. Senator Durbin, who's the top Democrat on judiciary said these new clarifications, they're unenforceable. So a couple of things.
4:37Again, one more time. If you're looking for a black or white decision here, you're not going to find it. This is a gradation of gray. But what I'm told as regards the anti-weaponization fund, if you put it in the context of the political environment, the judicial environment, the process you would have to go back through in order to reinstate, that effectively is dead. Now, John Cornyn, a former state attorney general in Texas, was comfortable with it. I'm not an attorney.
5:03Margaret Brennan:It took him a while to get there, though. It took him a while to get there. He basically said we can't take his word for it. It took him a while to get there. But the fact that John did was important to me. To a certain extent, I'm relying on others that are bringing me information, and I have to trust them on that. Not everything, but some of that. And I trust John on that. And on giving his family protection from IRS probes? That's totally wrong. Totally wrong. And so I will go back. This is not a black or white decision. That is wrong. And no American should be targeted by the law, but no American should be above the law.
5:32And that, frankly, almost weighed to vote no.
5:38Margaret Brennan:And you're just hoping it. You had to accept it. So let's look at the positive. There's three aspects to the attorney general. The attorney general is supposed to give advice to the president, supposed to run the Department of Justice and is supposed to make sure that the U.S. attorneys nationwide are doing their job. It really weighs strongly in his favor. When I speak to my U.S. attorneys in Louisiana, and I spoke specifically to David Corsell and Kurt Wall, and they said, listen, we have calls once weekly between our office and DOJ. And they give metrics for our prosecutors and each individual prosecutor is weighed on that metric.
6:15And we've had our focus restricted down to fighting violent crime, human and drug trafficking, and going after fraud in programs like Medicare and Medicaid. And if I need that extra resources to bring a case home, we do it. And if there's a drug kingpin, we get the resources to go after them. And our morale is up, not despite the accountability because of the accountability. Now, if you want a DOJ, which is actually doing its job, you need stable leadership and you need leadership which is effective. And in that which is making the greatest difference in my life and your life and the American people's life, there's a lot of positive things to say about Todd Blanche.
6:53Margaret Brennan:And you are confident that he will uphold the Constitution with the upcoming elections? There are Democrats saying he may not. Well, of course, there's always this existential anxiety. Yes. But I am as confident as you can be about the future you are. Yeah. I cannot predict the future. And this is not a black or white decision, but I'm confident on that. I want to ask you about something that's come up in the news recently. On this program, we have talked extensively about the really concerning rise in anti-Semitism in this country. There have been remarks in the past few days from some of your Republican colleagues that do seem hateful about other religions, specifically about Dr.
7:30Margaret Brennan:Abdul Al-Sayed in Michigan, who just won that Democratic primary. Senator Tommy Tuberville said Democrats just voted to send a terrorist to the Senate. He's a radical Islamist. Nancy Mace said every single Muslim holding public office in America is a Trojan horse and a threat to both national security and our republic. We refuse to be silent. These are just two of these statements. Are you comfortable here? Does your party need to condemn language like this? I condemn language like that. It's not to say that, let me just stop. The Muslims that I typically work with are doctors working in a remote area of Louisiana who otherwise would not have a physician unless Dr.
8:13Muhammad actually agreed to move there and be their doctor. Or he is the, or she is the professor teaching students something positive. Now, so you have to take every community in its totality. Every community has a bad apple and every community has those people. My gosh, weren't they wonderful people? Now, my exposure has been to the wonderful people. I condemn those statements and everybody should be treated as an individual. If somebody is awful, they should be treated as awful. But we shouldn't treat everybody as awful because somebody with whom they are identified may be awful. If you follow that.
8:45Margaret Brennan:I do. Thank you for your clarity on that. I want to ask you about Social Security, something I know you've been trying to work on here. and reform. It's an emergency. If you look at the Social Security Board of Trustees, they say it's going to be insolvent in six years. 70 million beneficiaries will see a 22 % cut to their checks every month, which means about$500 less in their pockets each single month. You've got a few months. What can you get done? So we're trying to get something done. We were trying to set up a process by which the Senate would invite the House to join and present bills that could be a solution.
9:19We don't dictate what the bill would be. It could be Ron Wyden's bill. It could be Bernie Sanders bill. It could be Bill Cassidy's bill. We would just present things to the Congress in order for us to consider, to set up that process.
9:31Margaret Brennan:A pathway. I tried to get that set up. Ron Wyden came to the floor and objected. And I'm thinking, why are you objecting to a process? It could be your bill that we choose. Why doesn't Congress do its job? Congress wants to be political. We're always angling to try and get the advantage, particularly in front of an election. As you read, the actuaries predict this fund is insolvent in six years. This is not the time to be political. It is a time to be a good senator. I was told by a couple of my colleagues, I'm a lousy politician, but a good senator. I would challenge everybody at this moment to be a good senator.
10:07And by the way, when you object just because of politics, as best I can tell, that just so incredibly wrong.
10:14Margaret Brennan:Well, there is a Democrat looking to do something on this. Elizabeth Warren had this op ed with Bernie Moreno, the Republican from Ohio this past week, arguing that in order to help Social Security, they should eliminate the payroll tax cap, which currently applies to the first one hundred and eighty four thousand five hundred bucks someone takes home, the rest of it being exempt if they make more than that. Do you support this proposal? First, let me say this is not Republican Democrat. Dick Durbin is the one who's leading the charge with me to try and get this done. And so absolutely, as a bipartisan, yes, let's set up that process.
10:49As regards as regards to solution.
10:52Margaret Brennan:Yes. That would be one of the things we consider. If Elizabeth and Bernie Moreno want to get their proposal considered, we first have to set up this process. And that's all Dick Durbin and I are trying to do is to set up a process. You're trying to force the conversation to be had. And if we come up with a solution to force the fact that it would be considered in committee and then force the fact that it would be considered on the floor. And once you force those two things, we could actually come up with a solution this year. Well, AARP opposes your Promise Act because they say you've got to do the hard work now.
11:24Margaret Brennan:But you're saying no one's doing the hard work now. No one's doing the hard work now. And by the way, when I said to AARP, would you accept that we would do this if it wasn't a commission? They don't like commissions. If we come up with just senators and representatives that would come together over the next two months with open hearings, and then we would in these next two months have the open hearings and then we present the solutions, they said they would accept that. And so that's what we came up with. But how do you get Bernie Moreno's here? OK, you're here. But how do you get other Republicans when President Trump has said campaigned on a promise not to touch Social Security?
11:59Margaret Brennan:And you have these. So implicit in your kind of question is that you're going to cut benefits, that you're going to do something harmful. Well, he said he won't touch it. That's not on the table. What if you touch it and you rescue it? I think the president would touch that. What if you touch it and you actually increase benefits for some? I think the president would touch that. But by the way, Congress should be acting independently of the president. The president is not Congress. And so we should do our job and we should step forward, no matter your party, put politics aside. As you've said, though, Congress sometimes acts like an appendage of the president.
12:32Which is wrong.
12:32Margaret Brennan:Do you have any agreement from leadership of your party that they will take this up? And by the way, that's what we were voting on. Let's set up a process by which the leadership would be forced to consider the solutions put forward. And any senator could replace a particular solution with their own proposal. It would be the way Congress is supposed to work. So you would be open to things like raising the retirement age again? I'm not predicting. One, that is not part of my plan. Let me first say that. You don't want to be prescriptive in the solution. You just want the process. Yes, but I have a plan and we don't raise the retirement age in my plan.
13:07But that said, somebody else may have a plan that does that. What's that?
13:10Margaret Brennan:This is the sovereign wealth fund plan you had with Senator Cain. This is the one where you do a investment fund and you put$1.5 trillion in it and you allow it to grow the economy. It's what the Canadians do, the Norwegians do, the Japanese do. It's what the U.S. government does with the Federal Railroad Retirement System. When you do that, the growth in the economy takes care of a lot of the problem with the debt. Is anyone at the White House listening to you? So Howard Lutnick actually spoke. I've spoken to he and Bessett and others. But Howard Lutnick in one of our Republican lunches spoke about how such an investment fund could be used as Google uses it and others use it to meet future obligations.
13:48And so certainly they've entertained it. And whenever you talk to somebody who does this sort of thing, they say, like, why aren't we doing this?
13:55Margaret Brennan:Right. Well, I want to talk about this as well with Senator Sanders, who we have later on in the program. I want to ask you about something you have raised was concerning to you back in June when we spoke. You had a really tough exchange with the president over the Iran war, and you said you were not getting enough information at that time. You got a private briefing. You were giving them some space to work on the diplomacy. That's all collapsed now. We are back in hostilities. Does the president need to deliver to the public some explanation of what is going on? Yes, I think he does. J.D. Vance came and spoke to the Republican lunch and did a good job of explaining the perspective as how to go forward.
14:34And someone said, not me, someone else, J.D., the president needs to give that same message to the people. And J.D. said, well, the president has. Well, he may have, but it's being kind of overwhelmed by everything else being said. And so I think the president needs to come out and speak forcefully on what the path forward is. and at some point it may be that that path forward works or not, but at least there needs to be that dialogue with the American people.
15:03Margaret Brennan:Can you explain to us what that path forward was that J.D. Vance explained to you? So I'll do my best to continue to put economic pressure, for example, by blockades upon the Iranians that will cause them enough discomfort that they will actually come back to the bargaining table. At the same time, continue to get oil through the Strait of Hormuz. J.D. points out that oil is$80 more than the$60 it was at the start, but a lot less than it was at$110 at the peak. And so we are having success getting oil out of the Strait. And that success blunts the effectiveness of what the Iranians are trying to do at the Strait of Hormuz.
15:39But that continued economic pressure while alleviating the pressure on the West, as well as continued selective operations is part of a long-term strategy. is not something that ends it tomorrow, but something which gradually brings it to a close.
15:55Margaret Brennan:So this is really sort of an extended, open-ended hostility situation. I won't speak for J.D., but I do think that, again, everybody assumes that something's going to start and end. Right. But we've been with the Iranians now for 47 years. And I think their point is, is that this is a continuation of that policy by other means. Senator Cassidy, thank you for joining us today. Thank you, Margaret. Face Nation will be back in a minute. Stay with us. And we turn now to Vermont Independent Senator Bernie Sanders, who joins us from Burlington. Good morning to you, Senator Sanders. Good morning. We are 86 days away from the midterms.
16:34Margaret Brennan:Tuesday in Minnesota, progressive candidate Peggy Flanagan, the current lieutenant governor who you have endorsed, is taking on a more moderate candidate, Angie Craig. Do you think this is going to be a similar dynamic to Michigan, where this was a tight race? I think it's going to be a tight race. I hope very much that Peggy wins. I think what we're seeing in Minnesota, Margaret, in Michigan, and all across this country, is that people understand that we're living with an economy that is rigged. You have working families, 60 % of our people living paycheck to paycheck. People can't afford groceries, housing, health care, basic necessities of life.
17:17And at the same time, they're seeing the richest people in this country become even richer. People are tired of the status quo politics and establishment policies. They want real change. And Peggy Flanagan is about bringing about real change, standing up to the big money interest. There is a reason why the super PACs and the billionaires are flooding Minnesota with all kinds of money. Same thing as Michigan. They don't want somebody to stand up for the working class in Minnesota.
17:46Margaret Brennan:But you still are confident Flanagan's going to pull this off? I'm sorry? You are confident Flanagan will win? No, I'm not confident. I think it's going to be a very, very close race. I think she's being outspent 7-1. And under those circumstances, it's tough for anybody to win. But she has a good ground game. I know she has a lot of grassroots support. And I'll do everything that I can to see that she does win. Okay. I know that you haven't gotten involved in many governor's races with the exception of Maine, but Democratic Socialist Francesca Hong in Wisconsin is expected to win her Democratic primary.
Read the full transcript
18:25Margaret Brennan:There's been some attention to some of her social media posts recently, but she has this platform of free child care, state run grocery stores, more health care subsidies. She wants to raise income taxes on millionaires. Some of this does seem to align with your platform. So I'm wondering, you know, why don't you support her? Is some of what she supports too extreme for you? No, but raising taxes on the rich, making sure that everybody in Wisconsin or America has health care as a right sounds quite reasonable to me. I just look, we have a limited number of races that we can be involved in. most of my focus on is getting people elected to the United States Senate, getting people elected to the House of Representatives.
19:12So with one exception, we have not been involved in a governance race. And that's somebody who I've known in Maine for many, many years.
19:20Margaret Brennan:Who is now running for the Senate in Maine? That's right. That's right. There was in Michigan this historic turnout, But the race was closer than many had expected. Dr. Abdul El-Sayed, former public health official, he did win by just one point. Since that time, President Trump has said he's happy that he won because he's going to be an easier candidate to defeat, basically, is what he's implying. And The Economist has polling showing the party's victory probability has fallen to 48 percent, putting Democrats' chances of controlling the Senate at 49 percent. Obviously, you want to resist that, that if that projection.
20:07Margaret Brennan:What's your strategy on a coalition here? Well, I look at that analysis a little bit differently. Margaret, in Michigan, in my view, Abdul's victory was one of the most extraordinary victories in modern political history. You tell me, have you ever heard of a candidate winning who was outspent nine to one? $60 million in billionaire-funded super PAC money came into that race, half from AIPAC, and yet he managed to win. Now, I think what we are seeing all over this country from coast to coast is that working people are sick and tired of being the only major country on earth that does not guarantee health care to all people as a human right.
20:56They're sick and tired of massive income and wealth inequality. Who believes? Now, I know we don't discuss this much in Congress or in the media, but nobody that I know thinks it makes sense that one man in America today, Mr. Musk, owns more wealth than the bottom half of American society. Who believes that we should sustain and maintain a corrupt campaign finance system where billionaires are undermining American democracy. The reason that we're going to win is people, whether you're conservative or Democrat, tired of the status quo and of the massive levels of inequality that exists right now.
21:29Margaret Brennan:You have written a letter that was shared with us to Democratic leaders in Congress and the DNC calling for public funding of elections and for the party to prohibit political action committees from participating in primary races. I understand your principled argument here. However, Democrats have a financial resource problem that is very real as compared to Republicans and their war chest. Why would the party disarm?
22:01We're not talking about disarmament. We're talking about within the Democratic primary, not in the general election. The campaign finance system today is corrupt. In Michigan, what you had is AIPAC spending$30 million in the Democratic primary trying to defeat Abdul. They lost. And now they're saying, we're going to support this guy Rogers, who was a Republican. So what you are seeing is it doesn't matter whether you're a Democrat or Republican, the special interest, and it's not just AIPAC, it's the AI people, it's crypto, they will take over the primaries and try to get their point of view through, get their special interests accomplished, regardless of which party is.
22:44So to me, it is insane that the Democrats would allow somebody to come in, an entity to come in that will then, if they lose, go into the other party.
22:53Margaret Brennan:We need to talk more about this, but I have to pay our bills here and take a break. So please stay with us, Senator Sanders. We'll be right back.
23:06Margaret Brennan:Welcome back to Face the Nation. We return now to our conversation with Senator Bernie Sanders. Senator, before the break, we were talking about your concern about super PACs and their involvement in primaries. You said you don't want Democrats to unilaterally disarm. Just to clarify, you highlighted$60 million poured into Michigan to defeat Dr. Al-Sayed. half of it came from APAC. They are now saying they're going to support the Republican in the general, which you also pointed out. Are you OK with Democrats accepting PAC money in the general, but not in the primary? Look, in the world that we live in, until we get rid of Citizens United and get rid of super PACs and move to public funding of elections, that is the reality.
23:58You to be outspent 50 to 1. But it is a corrupt campaign finance system. And Democrats can take charge of what takes place within their own primaries right now. General election can't. But within primaries, Democrats can get super PACs out. That's what they should do.
24:16Margaret Brennan:I want to focus in on AIPAC in particular, because Dr. Al-Sayed campaigned on this platform of cutting unconditional aid to countries, not just Israel. He said Egypt, the country his parents immigrated from. Cut it to Jordan, cut it to Pakistan, cut it to Saudi Arabia. He listed a number of countries and Israel. His mention of Israel and the war in Gaza has drawn a lot of criticism. President Trump said it's hate of Jewish people. When you speak, I know you are very specific in referring to the right-wing government of Benjamin Netanyahu, the prime minister. Would you advise Dr. al-Sayed and other progressive candidates to speak in a way that doesn't invite as much criticism?
25:02Look, I think Abdul has run a brilliant campaign and he's more than capable of making his own political judgments. But I think, Margaret, all over the country, people are deeply concerned that when we have so many problems at home, we have people sleeping out in the street, people can't afford health care. We are spending billions and billions of dollars on the right wing extremist Netanyahu government, which has done horrific things to the Palestinian people. People, many people, experts, including myself, consider what's going on there as a genocide. And I think whether you're a Democrat, Republican, conservative, progressive, we don't think that we should be continuing to fund an extremist government like that.
25:48Margaret Brennan:Some MAGA candidates also make that argument. But this is a real attack line being focused on Dr. al-Sayed in particular. Well, let's be clear. I mean, from Trump on down, you know, you have Trump.
26:05Who is in many ways an authoritarian type. and he is going to go after El-Sayed because for racist reasons I think their first announcement after Abdul-Wan is he is a Muslim and was all supposed to hate Muslims. These guys have nothing to say about the major crises facing our country. All they could do is appeal to racism, we're communists, all kinds of nonsense like that. But I think that at the end of the day the people of Michigan understand that the status quo is not working. We need a candidate like Abdul has the guts to stand up for working class families. This guy wrote a book. He's a doctor on Medicare for all.
26:49The current healthcare system is broken. We got to guarantee healthcare to all people. Abdul understands that and will help us move in that direction.
26:58Margaret Brennan:Senator Sanders, we'll leave it there. We're going to talk about healthcare next with Dr. Jay Bhattacharya. So we'll continue that part of the conversation. We'll be right back. Matching outfits, extravagant birthdays, many nicknames, a few classic moves of a dog-obsessed parent. At Ollie, they're obsessed with how obsessed you are with your pup, which is why they obsess over giving your dog the best. Ollie's fresh, human-grade recipes are developed by real chefs and backed by vet nutritionists. The meals are perfectly portioned and come with a pup-tainer and scoop for easy storing and mess-free serving, delivering the best experience for you and your pup.
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28:01Margaret Brennan:Life can feel overwhelming, but you don't have to go through it alone. On my podcast, From the Heart with Rachel Braython, I share openly and vulnerably about everything life brings us and what we can learn by living with our hearts a little bit more open. Every Friday, a new episode brings you a new story with topics on self-care, motherhood, healing, and more. You are enough, just the way you are. This podcast is a reminder of that. Follow and listen to From the Heart with Rachel Braython wherever you get your podcasts. We're joined now by the director of the National Institutes of Health, Dr.
28:36Margaret Brennan:Jay Bhattacharya. Good morning to you, doctor. Good morning. And we should mention you are also helping to run the CDC until the new director is sworn in as well. Until next Wednesday, yes. Until next Wednesday. So let me ask you about a number of things that I think people at home are worried about, particularly around the food supply. The cyclospora outbreak linked to iceberg lettuce from Mexico is now in 15 states. There were two deaths this week due to it. Yesterday, USDA issued an alert for a range of products that may have salmonella, including meat and poultry. 27 states are affected by salmonella, possibly linked to jalapenos, but cilantro, red onion, avocado also listed in a CDC notice.
29:18Margaret Brennan:Albertsons, a grocery store, just recalled some items. There's risk of salmonella and eggs in Texas, according to the CDC. And then you have the screwworm outbreak affecting beef. This is overwhelming for someone going into a grocery store right now. Why do they seem out of control? Well, the cyclospora outbreak is larger than in normal years. I mean, normal years actually is a cyclospora. You can do other cases. The two deaths that you mentioned, they happened in late June, early July, before we identified this source. And so folks that are listening, you can rest assured the CDC and the FDA are working hard to trace back exactly where these outbreaks are occurring from, intervening with the suppliers to make sure that they don't and doing recalls to make sure that the condition doesn't spread.
30:11I mean, it's tough. You go to a grocery store, you buy lettuce and you say, OK, can I buy the lettuce? And what I say to folks listening, we're working hard to make sure that the contaminated sources don't get onto the shelves. And if you're worried, you can buy the lettuce, but make sure you wash it carefully. Don't eat outer leaves. And if you're really worried, just cook your vegetables.
30:30Margaret Brennan:But we're not hearing from the FDA. I mean, should there be a restriction on imports from central Mexico right now? It seems like a lot of things are tied back. Yeah, I mean, I think the key thing is that when we find a contaminated source, we intervene. I can't speak for the FDA, thank God. It's just the NIH and CDC. But I can say that the folks who I have worked with at the FDA, they're a great team of folks. They're tracking back and finding the source of these outbreaks. And for cyclosporps specifically, it's complicated because for technical reasons, it's more difficult than if it was just a bacteria to find the exact source.
31:07But they've done a great job finding it. And they've been cooperating with the CDC team that I've led the last few months to try to identify the source. And, you know, it's what we know now is because of that hard work that's gone on.
31:18Margaret Brennan:But there are also a number of other health issues, including measles cases now at their highest level in 35 years. The CDC says only 10 U.S. states have measles vaccine coverage rates above the 95 percent threshold in the prior school year. That is so key because that is, as you know, a marker for basically a way to stop transmission, herd immunity. Do you believe that the federal government needs to make a really full-throated push to tell parents, go get your kids vaccinated with the MMR vaccine? You know, one of the first things I did as CDC director, I think it was back in February of this year, was that there was a big outbreak in South Carolina.
32:02And I went on to went on TV is the right word, but I went on camera and I recommended that the best way to end the measles outbreak there was to have their parents vaccinate their kids for measles. And the outbreak is now ended in South Carolina in part because of that. There's been a lot of a lot of outbreaks, not just the United States, but around the world. Yes. And, you know, a lot of that has to do with sort of a collapse in sort of public trust in a lot of public health measures that occurred during the pandemic. for reasons we can discuss. For me, the most important thing is to try to regain that trust.
32:38Margaret Brennan:Right. But why not? You can have TV ads. You can have something that's more of a national push. It was notable last week that Secretary Kennedy went on television and did say parents should get kids vaccinated for measles because it's effective at preventing infection roughly 97 percent of the time. That was a change for him. He has not always been that clear, as you know. Why not blast that across the airwaves of America. I mean, I think that I've done my best to try to do that. Every time anyone's asked me about vaccinating their kids from measles, I say exactly that. The best way to protect your kids from measles is to get the vaccine for measles.
33:13Margaret Brennan:This country's going to lose its measles elimination status. As did Canada, as did Mexico. But that's not accessible, right? The gold standard science. But, you know, I think the thing is, if you look at the actual what's happened, like there are specific states where you've had these outbreaks. Big outbreak in Texas, which has now been addressed. Big outbreak in Arizona and Utah that's been addressed. South Carolina that's been addressed. Now what we saw was an outbreak in Virginia, again, coming down sharply and now Pennsylvania. It's specific communities of people that have the highest risk that we have to focus on, as well as the broader sort of message that it's important for children to be vaccinated for the measles if we want to address the measles outbreak.
33:51Margaret Brennan:Well, that's why I brought up herd immunity, because it puts everyone at risk, right? Not just people. But on this issue, you were down in Atlanta this past week. This is one year since that horrific shooting at CDC headquarters. Officer David Rose was honored this past week. He was killed last year protecting CDC employees from a gunman. And we should note he was a combat veteran, a United States Marine, who had just graduated five months prior from the police academy. Three kids left behind. The shooter was motivated by misinformation about the COVID vaccine. That is why he shot over 100 bullets into the windows of the CDC.
34:35Margaret Brennan:Is enough being done to counter this kind of misinformation? I mean, I should start with I got to talk with Officer Rose's wife a few months back. One of the first things I did is to honor him and his sacrifice in protecting the people that work at the CDC, the amazing people who work at the CDC, was we, you know, renamed the street that leads into the CDC after him. And it was a really nice event. I'll tell you, the thing is, I want to focus on attention on Officer Rose because I think the shooter did was horrific. And I think that, you know, you could talk about why shooters do things, but really fundamentally...
35:12Margaret Brennan:Well, his father said he was brainwashed about the COVID vaccine and thought it was making him suicidal. That's what his motivation was when he was going to shoot at the CDC. puts the emphasis on somebody who's, I mean, I think we shouldn't be putting our emphasis on. No, I am on misinformation about vaccines. I think the key thing is there's a loss of public trust in public health that happened in part because of a lot of, frankly, even on this network and on other networks, there was a particular single point of view put across during the COVID pandemic about how, you know, that led to things that really did cause harm to people.
35:45The school closures are probably the number one thing. that this is not a productive line of claims.
35:51Margaret Brennan:We covered COVID in depth on this program like no other Sunday show did. I'm not blaming you specifically. What I'm saying is you want to talk about misinformation that the the kinds of decisions and sort of the public sort of face of public health during the pandemic led to many people losing trust in public health. The Trump administration officials. No, I mean, I mean, like Biden. So Biden, for instance, censored me under to the Trump administration. But during the, during the, just so we're clear, the Biden administration censored me, right? They censored, they sent out direct attacks on people who disagreed on the COVID, on sort of whether the COVID vaccine stopped it.
36:32RFK Jr.
36:33Margaret Brennan:called the COVID vaccine the deadliest vaccine ever made. That is misinformation. And we're not being clear about that. And I think that is dangerous. Wouldn't you agree? People lost their jobs, Margaret, because the Biden administration censored people and said, look, you can't even talk about COVID vaccine harms. Yeah. And I'm talking about why you have the kind of distrust that's led to the kind of sort of problems that you're talking, we're talking about earlier in public health. That distrust was not caused by President Trump. It wasn't caused by Bobby. It was caused by a lot of sort of really front of manly, yeah, but often spread by the government itself regarding natural immunity, closures of schools, closures of mask mandates.
37:16People lost their jobs because of these vaccine mandates that didn't make any public health sense. So if you want to talk about public trust, you have to embrace that fully, right? You can't just talk about it in a narrow political way.
37:28Margaret Brennan:I'm talking about a shooting at the CDC and an officer, you said you just went to honor. That's what I was talking about. You're talking about something else entirely. I also asked you about shoring up public health in the vaccine. What you're talking about is you're trying to blame the shooting on Bobby. No, I'm not. I'm reading you what his father said. No, what you're saying, what you're implying is that somehow the lack of public trust. I'm not talking about him. I'm talking about your visit there. And there's enough being done. I think it's really unfortunate. Since you want to restore public trust, tell me what you're doing now.
38:00Margaret Brennan:because the Washington Post and Bloomberg reported the White House is preparing an executive order on vaccines and autism. What is it going to prescribe? What is it going to do? Why are we seeing another announcement here when I know you are launching research into a plethora of issues that are contributing factors potentially to autism? Why would the White House be saying only look at this thing? Well, I don't I mean, I have to talk about specifics of the executive order. I'll tell you what you think that's restoring trust in vaccines. The purpose of the whatever the I mean, you can ask the president about the executive order, but I'll tell you what the focus.
38:35You don't know about the executive order. I don't I won't be able to tell you specifically what's on it because I don't think it's done yet. But you can ask the president about it. What I can tell you is that the president cares deeply, as does Bobby, about the rise in autism. I know you do as well. There's so many families around the country that have had faced the issues of this. And they want real information. And so I, as NIH director, have been focused on making sure that we have science that addresses that very complicated question about why we've seen a rise in autism. It's not going to be a simple answer.
39:10And last year, I authorized something called the Autism Data Science Initiative, that we're going to have a big sort of early sort of results from it in a couple of weeks from the dozen and more scientific teams that have been funded to look at this with a mandate of thinking very broadly, not just genes, not just environmental exposures, but potential interactions. We don't know. If you ask me as a scientist, do I know why we've seen this rise in autism? I'll tell you, I don't know the answer to that question. And the fact that it gets so tied up with, okay, is it vaccines, not vaccines? What it does is it sends a signal to the scientists that if you work on this topic, you're going to get destroyed if you get the wrong answer.
39:48I've tried my hardest. The way you build public trust is allow people to talk and think without that kind of sort of political overlay. I've tried my very hardest at NIH director to allow that to happen.
39:57Margaret Brennan:Which is so key for science, which is why I'm asking why the president putting out an order specifically focused on one, what seems to be preconceived notion, how that wouldn't be undermining. You're jumping ahead. I mean, I don't know exactly this executive order, neither do you. So it's not, yeah. Well, it's interesting that you don't. My colleague Matt Gutman here at CBS asked you last week whether you think vaccines cause autism. You said you don't know for certain. You said there isn't evidence that any vaccine causes autism, but you also don't have evidence that vaccines do not. Parents are preparing to send their kids back to school.
40:30Margaret Brennan:I just want to be very clear what I actually said. Please be clear. Should parents trust that they can go vaccinate their kids when their doctor tells them to do so for them to go back to school? I think that parents, for most kids, especially for the measles vaccines, the DTP, all the standard childhood vaccines, it's very important that parents vaccinate their kids. as far as can they feel confident sending back to schools, you know, I just just to push back some. It was a tremendous mistake to cause parents to fear that about sending their kids to school during the COVID pandemic. The kids were better off in school.
41:02We shouldn't be scaring public.
41:04Margaret Brennan:I'm talking about what people do now. It's August, about to be. Yeah, but you're talking about 2020. I'm talking about 2026. We're talking about the why people have the federal government and the top health officials. If you want clarity, let me give you some clarity. The reason why you have this problem of public trust is because what happened in 2020 has not yet been addressed. Can these parents trust you and the recommendation that they should go get their kids vaccinated? The parents should trust me. I mean, I'm giving my recommendation that I vaccinated my kids. I don't think that it is. I think if you want to protect your kids from these sort of parental diseases, yes, you should vaccinate your kids.
41:40But it is even more important that these kids go to school. that in no way, shape or form should this show or any other show like it perpetuate the idea that they're sending their kids to school is worse because they're going to be some health risk there when it's just not true. Right. If you want to protect your kids from those those preventable diseases, vaccinate your kids. I've been very, very clear about that. But it is it is a mistake and it contributes the lack of public trust. If you sort of fear monger around, oh, if you send your kids to school, well, you might be around unvaccinated kids.
42:12It's that's that's that's a tremendous mistake. Right. You vaccinate your kids. You can protect your kids from those those those risks, whatever they are. In any case, it's better to send the kids to school because that's how you keep kids healthy.
42:22Margaret Brennan:Yes. We want to send our kids to school. I know. So but now addressing what happened in 2020 is part of that. If you want to say why there's this loss of public trust, you have to really wrap your arms around that. But you trust the science and the health workers and the vaccines now is what I understood you were saying. And so that is the message. I mean, I've looked at the scientific evidence. I personally have made decisions for my family around those lines, too. That's good to know. Thank you. We're going to leave it there because I know we're running out of time. We'll be back in a moment.
42:52Margaret Brennan:Federal officials say water systems in at least a dozen states have been breached by cyber attacks and that the list could grow. Joining us now is CBS News Homeland Security and Justice correspondent Nicole Skanga to tell us more. Nicole, I've heard you talking about it this week, and it was really fascinating to me. we had up a map showing all the states affected here. How did they detect this? And are the water systems safe? Let's start with there have been no impacts to the drinking waters in affected communities nationwide, Margaret. I think that's important for viewers to understand. Only five of the dozen affected states have publicly acknowledged it.
43:31Margaret Brennan:You'll see it on the map. But operators realized that something was wrong here when they could not access their own computer systems. Essentially, they were locked out by these malicious cyber actors. And what we know right now is that cyber attackers have been going after the industrial control systems, essentially the small computers that operate the pumps, the valves, the water flow and the water pressure. And they've been doing that because so many of these systems are remote controlled and were under covid, which enables them to face the Internet directly. And there are just not the firewalls in place to protect these systems.
44:07Margaret Brennan:In fact, many of them use default or weak passwords, essentially enabling these attackers to go right in. In at least one case, and this is a particular concern to the FBI, not only did attackers enter these exposed industrial control systems, but they actually messed with something called the ladder logic, which essentially gave new instructions to the computer about how to operate this system. Now, again, we've caught this so far, but this is a real concern. So there were instances back in 2023 when these Iranian linked hackers were accused of accessing water systems. In July of this year, Homeland Security, which has that division CISO, which is supposed to be protecting these things, said that there was concern about Iranian-affiliated cyber targeting across critical infrastructure.
44:58Margaret Brennan:sure. Is that the government saying Iran did this? I think a lot of cyber experts are saying if it looks like a duck and it quacks like a duck, it's probably Iran. But there are some nuances here. This campaign, like you mentioned, resembles previous Iranian linked campaigns, right? You have targeting exposed industrial controllers, exploiting this weak sort of authentication, a willingness, by the way, to create actual disruption, Margaret. So oftentimes when we We see Chinese linked cyber attacks, full typhoon. What the Chinese want is just to gain a foothold in the system and to lay quiet. Here we're seeing actual disruptions, which is part of previously the MO for Iran.
45:38Margaret Brennan:That being said, these are very unsophisticated attacks. And so there are a plethora of cyber actors who could be responsible for this, including those who might be trying to mimic Iran. This is why it's very important to not just look at the behavioral similarities before the FBI and DHS to use intelligence and to attribute these publicly, which could take weeks or months in many cases because the forensic systems are just not good in these water municipalities. Last thing here, how we respond in and of itself is a signal, right? If a nation state can degrade water systems in roughly a dozen states and the response is just a shrug and an advisory, that is an invitation to foreign adversaries in the future to take a hit on U.S.
46:24Margaret Brennan:critical infrastructure and expect no consequences. Such a key point. Nicole Skanga, thank you for your reporting. We'll be right back. That's it for us today. Thank you all for watching. Until next week, for Face the Nation, I'm Margaret Brennan. The senior executive producer of Face the Nation is Mary Hager Laird. The executive producer is Anne Hsu. This broadcast was directed by Shelley Schwartz. Face the Nation originates from CBS News in Washington. For more Face the Nation, we're online at facethenation.com and on YouTube. Face the Nation is also rebroadcast on our CBS News 24-7 streaming network at 1230 on Sundays.
47:05Margaret Brennan:It's available through our Paramount Plus app. The critically acclaimed series, Colin from Accounts, returns for a brand new season. But what is it? We're friends. We are togetherly friends. We're friendly together. With a dog. Colin from Accounts, new season streaming September 10th, only on Paramount+.
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