Sen. Rand Paul, Sen. Amy Klobuchar, Rep. Mike Turner, Sen. Tim Kaine

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13:59Margaret Brennan:Where you learn matters. At Monmouth University, students study on a vibrant coastal campus with direct access to research, culture, and industry. From classrooms to competition, from creativity to career prep, Monmouth offers a vantage point shaped by location and purpose. Plending a personalized learning experience with Division I pride and a rising national profile. Bigger thinking, more inspired. You amplified. Amplify your future at Monmouth University. Learn more at monmouth.edu forward slash amplified. And we're back with Minnesota Senator Amy Klobuchar. She is a member of Democratic leadership, and she joins us this morning from Minneapolis.

14:39Margaret Brennan:Good morning to you, Senator.

14:40Tim Kaine:Thanks, Margaret. Great to be on again.

14:43Margaret Brennan:Well, we just heard from my colleague Robert Costa that the president indicated to him the likelihood of a shutdown and with that potentially mass firings. Do you think this is posturing or do you worry your fellow Democrats are walking into a trap?

15:02Tim Kaine:AMNA NAWAZIER, I am glad the president has finally agreed to meet with the leadership in Congress. He canceled the meeting last week, which I think was a big mistake, because this is an opportunity for the country because of one big problem, and that is that the Republicans have created a health care crisis. My constituents, Americans, are standing on a cliff right now with these insurance premium increases that are upon them. So, Democrats are united in pushing on this and saying, look, let us do something about this crisis before it is too late, 75 percent increase in premiums starting November 1, on people who are small business owners, people who are farmers out there, twice as much in the rural area.

15:49Tim Kaine:So, that's what this is about to us. And the president prides himself in the art of a deal. this is the moment for him to meet with Democrats and come to an agreement.

15:58Margaret Brennan:So those premiums go up November 1st. You're talking about the extension of the health care subsidies, but insurance companies plan that year out. So these premiums are already priced in here. Why not agree to the government?

16:12Tim Kaine:What we know is that these tax, if I could just, okay, go ahead. The tax credits are what really could make a difference here for people, because of the fact that we know these premiums hit November 1. Getting this done now is a now thing. It's not a December thing. It's not a January thing. It's not an off-ramp. It is something we have to get done now. As one of my farmers that I met with out in rural Minnesota said, when looking at the president's tariffs and looking at what's happened in farm country, five-year high in small farm bankruptcy. He said it's a perfect storm of ugly. That's where we are with the economy right now.

16:50Tim Kaine:And that's why we are pushing on what is one of the biggest cost drivers for Americans, in addition to groceries and electricity prices going up. It's health care.

16:59Margaret Brennan:But to be clear, you couldn't take the seven week funding and then negotiate that. You're saying it has to be agreed to right now.

17:08Tim Kaine:We believe this is a now problem. And while we are eager to talk with Senator Thune, I know Senator Schumer is, to get this moving. In the end, we know that they are a rubber stamp for what the president wants. Not everyone's like Rand Paul going off in his own direction and talking about the debt out of the big, beautiful bill. I don't agree with a lot of what he says, but he's right about that debt. He's right about what happened with that bill. Most of them are just going to rubber stamp what President Trump says. That's why it was so important to get this meeting. And I hope he sees it not in the president, not as political theater, but as real people who are facing a crisis right now, whether it's in the cities, the suburbs, or the rural areas of America.

17:49Margaret Brennan:You sit on the Judiciary Committee, so I want to ask you about what's happening right now. Earlier this month, the U.S. Attorney in the Eastern District of Virginia, Eric Siebert, resigned after failing to bring a case against New York Attorney General Letitia James. We just spoke about her with Robert Costa. Monday, Lindsey Halligan was sworn in as the interim U.S. attorney for the Eastern District of Virginia. She has never prosecuted a case before. Three days into this new job, she moved forward with the indictment of former FBI Director James Comey on two counts. Have you spoken to your fellow Republicans on the Judiciary Committee?

18:26Margaret Brennan:Do they have concerns about what's happening in Virginia?

18:31Tim Kaine:Well, I plan on doing that this week. And what I see this as a former prosecutor myself, this is weaponizing the Justice Department, basically taking a career prosecutor who was recommended by the Republican governor of the state of Virginia, clearly has Republican roots, who made a decision based on the evidence over a period of months, made a decision. Then he's pushed out, forced out, so that the president can install his own aid into the job. When I questioned Attorney General Bondi during her confirmation hearing, she assured me that politics would not play a role, that they would make independent decisions.

19:14Tim Kaine:That is not what this is. This is a vengeance prosecution. It is not about the law.

19:23Margaret Brennan:You also worked on investigating January 6, 2021, and the attack in the United States Capitol. FBI Director Kash Patel yesterday said publicly 274 FBI agents were, quote, thrown into crowd control on that day against FBI standards. President Trump also said publicly that FBI agents acted as agitators who were secretly placed against all rules, regulations, protocols, and standards into the crowd prior to and during the attack. This contradicts What the inspector general said in a published report that said there was no evidence of undercover employees in the crowd and that there were hundreds of special agents and employees who came in after the Capitol Hill police asked for them.

20:08Margaret Brennan:This is now newly in focus because the president put the focus there. What was the role of the FBI that day? REP.

20:16Tim Kaine:NANCY PELOSI, I chaired the investigation of the security problems along a bipartisan investigation with Senator Peters and then Senator Blunt and Senator Portman. This went on. We had a number of open hearings, and we made major, major recommendations for changes at the Capitol. And nowhere was it found that the FBI was acting as agitators. In fact, they were called in when there was such a delay in bringing in the military to insist, to assist in what was essentially an insurrection, where over 100 police officers were injured or maimed because of this criminal activity at the Capitol. So I just find it appalling that the president would say that the FBI was somehow part of this.

21:03Tim Kaine:Kash Patel did clarify that, in fact, they were brought in after the fact, but they were brought in because we needed help. Senators, Republicans and Democrats were calling the military leaders. They were calling the attorney general. They were asking for help because that help was not coming to the Capitol. And everyone has seen those facts.

21:26Margaret Brennan:Senator, thank you for your insight there. We'll be watching what happens here as the president tweeted both of those things and in reference to former director Chris Wray. And we're joined now by Ohio Republican Congressman Mike Turner. Good morning. Good to have you here in person.

21:41Mike Turner:Thanks. Thanks for having me.

21:42Margaret Brennan:I want to talk to you about Ukraine, which you just returned from. But before I do that, let's button up where we left the conversation with Senator Klobuchar. FBI Director Chris Wray was twice spoken about in public statements by the president yesterday. and he said he has some explaining to do. He seemed to be connecting it to the FBI on January 6th. Are you at all concerned by the former director's actions?

22:07Mike Turner:Well, I do think that there, you know, with this new information, there's going to have to be some explaining as to what is this new information and how does this relate to January 6th.

22:16Margaret Brennan:Specifically the number of the agents, that 274?

22:19Mike Turner:Yes, this does seem to be significantly different than what anyone has heard before. And how does this relate to the circumstances of what occurred there? You know, certainly, you know, Kash Patel is bringing this forward. This is going to be information that I think does relate. It really does go to everyone's confidence of what we currently know about that day. There's been a number of investigations and a number of people who've looked at this. You know, this certainly is concerning. And I think, you know, it is better.

22:42Margaret Brennan:But what part is concerning? Because that inspector general report said months ago that there were several hundred FBI agents who responded after the Capitol Police asked them to be there.

22:51Mike Turner:But it's the issue of, you know, what was their role? What did they do? You know, that aspect, I think, certainly, as we look at this information, as the FBI looks at the information, is it the same? Is it the same information that has been looked at before? Is it different? And that certainly bears a review. And that, I think, will occur.

23:09Margaret Brennan:So when the president says Chris Wray has some explaining to do, how do you interpret that? Because the inspector general report is public. Kash Patel said those individuals were there. It's not standard to send them, but it was disclosed they were there after capital.

23:26Mike Turner:Well, as the information comes forward, I mean, obviously, the current FBI director and the FBI is going to have to come forward with the information. That information will be reviewed. And then ultimately, you know, the FBI is going to have to, and I think that the prior director will have to explain how this information relates to what we've looked at before. And it's either going to be the same and prove that it is as everyone believed the circumstances were before, or it's going to be different. And at that point, we're going to have to look at, you know, how does it relate to what we believe we knew and how does it relate to what we now see?

23:58Mike Turner:But we don't know because I have no information. I think no one else has any additional information besides what the news reports are. And we'll have to review what that information is.

24:07Margaret Brennan:But just to be very clear, because it is such a dangerous information environment in so many ways, You are not in any way suggesting that the FBI was secretly agitating, which is what the president said, the attack on January 6th.

24:22Mike Turner:I'm not suggesting anything, and I don't think you are either. I think what we're both suggesting is that this currently is in news reports, and those news reports certainly bear a review of the information that's going to come forward. And that information is either going to tell us that it's the same information that has been seen before, or it's going to be new information. And if it's new information, that's going to need to be reviewed.

24:47Margaret Brennan:We'll be right back with Congressman Mike Turner, Democratic Senator Tim Kaine and former White House special counsel to Trump, Ty Cobb. Stay with us.

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26:51Margaret Brennan:Welcome back to Face the Nation. We return now to our conversation with Ohio Republican Congressman Mike Turner. Congressman, we were showing video there earlier of the overnight attack Russia carried out against Ukraine. You were just there in Kiev. I'm sure you welcomed what the president said this week when he said he now has changed his mind and he does believe Ukraine could win this war and get its territory back from Russia. But he also added he wishes everyone well when he made that statement. So is he telling us that the United States is walking away from Ukraine and leaving it up to them?

27:28Margaret Brennan:Or is he signaling that the United States is going to help Ukraine win that territory back?

27:34Mike Turner:Well, we definitely need help. And this is part of the dirty secret that really where the United States really needs to step it up. And it's part of the meeting that he had with the president of the EU commission. The United States is providing aid to Ukraine. But at the same time, the West, the EU, and the United States is subsidizing Russia and its production machine because we're buying from China and India that is buying energy from Russia, and the EU is buying energy from Russia. So we need to place sanctions on Russia so that we're not funding their economy, which is funding their ability to attack and kill Ukraine.

28:11Mike Turner:So we're funding both sides of this. Unfortunately, there are those in Congress that want to stop supporting Ukraine's ability to defend themselves. Well, that'll just result in more attacks from Russia, as we saw last night against Ukraine. That's not going to get us to peace. The only way to get us to peace and Trump's vision of peace is to impact their ability for production to stop subsidizing Russia's economy and their ability for production and killing Ukrainians. And that's to adopt Lindsey Graham and Brian Fitzpatrick's bill that would impose sanctions, give the president the ability to impact Russia's ability to wage this war and get us to peace.

28:52Margaret Brennan:But Speaker Johnson has said before that he would put that bill to a vote. He just hasn't. And he said, oh, I need the president to green light it. That's not true. He has a veto-proof majority. We've had Senator Graham on this program a million times telling us this is set to go. Just give us the green light. Did Speaker Johnson respond to your request to move?

29:10Mike Turner:No, and the momentum is here. We need to do this now. The president doesn't need to give us a green light. He's not a red light. The last time that and we and we're coming back and we need to do so. We need to do so now. The last time we put on the floor the bill that would have stopped funding Ukraine, over three thousand three hundred members voted for it. If we put the bill on the floor to stop to put sanctions on Russia, stop funding their economy, it would be similar. Over three hundred members would vote for it. The only way to peace is to put sanctions on Russia, continue our support for Ukraine, which is what we're doing, what the president's going to be doing, and bring this war to an end.

29:48Mike Turner:Support Trump's vision of peace, put sanctions on Russia, stop funding their war economy. Now, what I saw in Ukraine, which is what's really incredible, is that they are winning modern warfare. What they're doing with their anti-drone technology, I mean, they are really the tech bros of the future. They are implementing on the front line anti-drone air defense technology that is winning this war. With our help and assistance, which they're going to continue to need for the long-range systems that Russia is bringing in and that are attacking Kiev with. But with their anti-drone technology that no one else has, that they are implementing, they are winning this war.

30:28Mike Turner:We need to be on the side of that war of the future that they're winning and support Ukraine.

30:32Margaret Brennan:And I've heard military officials explain this to me, that this is like a really interesting test case to learn the lessons that Ukraine is illustrating for the world. However, in the immediate term, will the president lift restrictions on Ukraine's ability to use long range weapons to actually attack Russia?

30:53Mike Turner:Well, and he really needs to do so because what's happening with that pressure that's on the front line.

30:56Margaret Brennan:Because he has the old Biden policy.

30:57Mike Turner:Right. Well, he does. And that's what he needs to release. Because with the pressure on the front line and the fact that Ukraine has developed anti-drone technology where they're taking down Russian drones, they're using their own drones to attack Russia. But Russia has long-range weapons that they're attacking that front line. Ukraine needs to have the ability to use long-range weapons to push Russia back. And when they're able to do that, they will get their territory back. If they are able to do that, they will win this war. And if we put sanctions on Russia impacting their ability to produce their war machine and production, they will be able to win this modern warfare and will be on the right side of what this is not old time war.

31:39Mike Turner:This is modern war. And we're on the right side of Ukraine.

31:43Margaret Brennan:You've just got to persuade President Trump to do that, that change in policy. When we were in France last week speaking to President Macron, I asked him about those incursions into European airspace. Some would say buy Russian drones or Russian jets. Others have said they still need to investigate. We've seen drones or jets into Poland, Estonia, Romania, Norway, possibly Denmark. What should the United States be doing to push back on those provocations?

32:10Mike Turner:You know, what's interesting about this is that what we've always said is that, you know, Russia, once they got through Ukraine, would be testing and can continue into Europe. But what they're seeing now, because they're having this success of Ukraine, they're going over Ukraine. They're now going into Poland and Romania, and they're seeing that Poland and Romania don't have the advanced technology that Ukraine does. And instead of going through Ukraine, they're going over Ukraine. Since this is modern warfare and Ukraine's winning it, they're seeing that the old war is actually old Europe.

32:45Margaret Brennan:Mike Turner, thank you for sharing some of your insights, what you learned on the ground in Ukraine. Thank you. We turn now to Virginia Democratic Senator Tim Kaine, who joins us this morning from Richmond. Good morning to you, Senator.

33:00Rand Paul:Morning, Margaret.

33:01Margaret Brennan:You have, what, 140 ,000 federal civilian workers in your state, one of the highest numbers in the nation. How concerned are you that you will see mass layoffs if we go into this shutdown that the White House says they are preparing for?

33:19Rand Paul:Well, and I think your reporter, Robert Acosta, said they're even welcoming it. We are really worried about it, Margaret. When Ted Cruz forced a shutdown of the government in October 2013, it hurt Virginia pretty bad. And when Donald Trump forced a shutdown of the government in late 2018, early 2019, it hurt Virginia pretty bad. And this one would be the same. The only thing about the president's threat to fire more people is he's already doing it. And instead of threatening, he should just be meeting to negotiate. We came near shutdown deadlines during the Biden administration, but we never shut government down because the president would sit down with congressional leaders of both parties and would find a path forward.

34:01Rand Paul:And that's what we've been asking for since the Democrats put an alternate plan on the table on September 18th. Just sit down and talk with us. And finally, he has agreed to do that tomorrow. But if your reporting is to be believed, he's sort of going into it, setting, reducing expectations improperly. He should be doing what presidents do and saying we're going to find a deal to keep the government of the greatest nation on Earth open.

34:26Margaret Brennan:But is it enough of a deal to say, take the short-term seven-week funding deal and we'll continue to talk about these health care subsidies that Democrats say they are so concerned about? I mean, is it really worth the risk?

34:41Rand Paul:Here's my thought about this, Margaret, my personal view. We've got to solve this health care issue. And Republicans are saying the same thing. Mike Johnson has said it. Senator Cornyn has said it. Senator Hawley has said it. Senator Murkowski has said it. We're asking to fix a problem that even Republicans want to fix. I don't think we have to have every detail pinned down with all the I's dotted and T's crossed in order to do a short term extension. But I do want to see that Republicans are saying, you're right, we can fix this. And here's the path to finding a fix. And the second thing we need, which is so reasonable, we're just asking if we do a deal.

35:19Rand Paul:Please don't, Mr. President, sign the deal and then immediately the next day start starting to take away funds, rescinding agreements that you just made yesterday. A deal should be a deal. And we should all agree that Americans should not see their health care suffer, their premium spike and people lose insurance and providers close. We've already had providers in Virginia announce that they are closing their doors because of the bill that the Republicans passed in July. and this is happening all over the country. Let's just do what's right by our constituents and fix it.

35:53Margaret Brennan:I want to ask you another question specific to Virginia and that is what is going on inside the judicial system. Back in August, it was the U.S. Attorney for the Western District of Virginia, Todd Gilbert, who suddenly resigned. Then earlier this month, the U.S. Attorney in the Eastern District of Virginia, Eric Siebert, resigned after failing to bring a case against New York's Attorney General Letitia James. What is going on here in the Virginia court system?

36:24Rand Paul:Margaret, it's pretty darn plain. The president nominated two U.S. attorneys in Virginia, both with Republican bona fides. Todd Gilbert in the Western District had been the Republican Speaker of our House of Delegates. He resigned as a legislator to take the Trump appointment. President Trump's team interviewed these candidates, approved the candidates, nominated the candidates, and then even appointed them into the interim position. But both were forced out because they said their integrity as prosecutors would not allow them to genuflect to Donald Trump. And in Todd Gilbert's case, they wanted to force him to demote a longtime career member of the Western District of Virginia who had served under multiple administrations and presidents.

37:08Rand Paul:He refused to do so. And in Eric Siebert's case, he refused to bring a criminal charge against a perceived Trump political opponent when there was no evidence to support the charge. President Trump spending time going after enemies, trying to figure out a way to give$20 billion to a friend, the Argentine government, instead of dealing with the challenges we elected him to confront. Food prices are going up. Building supplies are going up. School supplies are going up. Energy costs are going up. Health care costs are going up. And Donald Trump seems to be focused on a retribution campaign. You got to focus, man.

37:43Rand Paul:This is an important job. It's time to focus.

37:46Margaret Brennan:Well, when it comes to those Virginia cases, have you talked to Siebert? Have you talked to Gilbert to understand why they felt they had to resign?

37:58Rand Paul:I have talked to each of them after the resignations were done. These were individuals I knew both. I knew Todd Gilbert because of his legislative role, and I knew Eric Siebert very well by reputation. And again, this was the prosecutor, Margaret, who, when the Biden administration transitioned to the Trump administration, the Trump administration, DOJ, put him in the role as an interim, even before we recommended him, along with our Republican governor, Glenn Youngkin, as you mentioned. So after they had been fired, yes, I did call and say, I'd like to understand why you were forced out. And they shared thoughts with me without getting into anything about particular cases or particular communication they'd had with Trump administration officials.

38:43Rand Paul:But I am convinced and Virginians are convinced. I traveled around the state this week. People are talking about this. Both of these individuals had a backbone. They wouldn't genuflect to Donald Trump and they wouldn't bring baseless cases. And we shouldn't see that in any district in this nation. And it's sad that President Trump is more focused on retribution than serving his constituents.

39:03Margaret Brennan:Well, that Eastern District did come forward with this indictment of former FBI Director James Comey. Yes, it was just a two-page indictment, no evidence presented publicly here, but it was convincing enough to 14 of 23 people sitting on a grand jury. Can you really say there's no there there?

39:27Rand Paul:Well, a bare majority. As you know, Margaret, there's 23 people on a grand jury. They need at least 12 votes to get an indictment. And yes, they got their finger over the bar with 14, although the 23 wouldn't agree on one of the charges that the U.S. attorney was pushing. So we will see what this case is about. It is odd that the indictment has so few facts. And I found it very odd. I used to practice in this court. And when the attorney general put out a press statement after the indictment and said, we will follow the facts in this case. What prosecutors follow the facts before they indict? They don't indict and then say, well, let's see what the facts are.

40:04Rand Paul:I think she even revealed that this is a weak case, which everyone in her office was telling her it was a weak case.

40:12Margaret Brennan:You on your armed services role, I want to quickly ask you, you have said you are supportive of the creation of a Palestinian state. And we saw at the U.N. this past week a large number of members just simply walked out when Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu spoke. It was a statement. Tomorrow he's going to be at the White House. Ahead of that meeting, President Trump said this.

40:37Amy Klobuchar:I'm not allowing Israel to annex the West Bank.

40:41Margaret Brennan:There's been enough.

40:42Amy Klobuchar:It's time to stop now, OK?

40:45Margaret Brennan:That's a strong statement. Do you know how the United States should enforce that? How do you force Israel to step back from annexation?

40:55Rand Paul:Well, I was very heartened that the president said that. And you're right. I support what the United States voted for in the U.N. in 1947, a state of Israel and a state of Palestine. One of those promises has been met. One hasn't. And we need to be on a path for a Palestinian state that's demilitarized, where Hamas plays no role in its governance. And until we find that path forward, we're going to have continued cycles of violence that are bad for Israelis, bad for Palestinians, bad for the region. So I hope the president, who by all accounts has a strong relationship with Prime Minister Netanyahu, makes plain that we are we are against annexation.

41:31Rand Paul:And this 21 point proposal that the president has on the table, which is pretty similar to the New York dialogue being led by the French and the Saudis. They're different efforts, but they're trying to reach the same point, a future state for Israel and Palestine where both can live in peace and creating stability in the region instead of the cycles of violence. So I hope the president leans into that at the meeting tomorrow. I was heartened by his comment. It would be a big mistake for the Prime Minister Netanyahu to look at all of these nations that have been allies saying, you need to change course and for him to just pull his head in the shell and turn inward and continue to isolate Israel rather than move forward toward peace and more stability in the region.

42:14Margaret Brennan:Senator King, thank you for your insights today. We'll be back in a moment.

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43:19Margaret Brennan:And we're joined now by Ty Cobb. He served as White House special counsel for just under a year during the first Trump administration, helping to coordinate the response to Robert Mueller's probe of Russian influence on the 2016 election. Good morning to you.

43:36Rand Paul:Good morning, Margaret. Thanks for having me.

43:37Margaret Brennan:Well, we saw this action against former FBI Director James Comey this past week, and he was indicted on two charges specific to his September 2020 testimony to Congress about Russian election meddling in 2016, so-called crossfire hurricane. In your view, from what you've heard of this case, do you think it has enough substance to actually head to trial?

44:04Rand Paul:I don't, really. You know, as you and Senator Cain discussed briefly moments ago, that the grand jury rejected one of the counts, the top count, actually, in the indictment. Approved two, but by a very slim margin, 14 out of 23, in a process where there's no defense attorney in the room and the standard is merely probable cause. the next courtroom that this will be assessed in, if it gets to trial, requires unanimity from 12 people and there will be a vigorous defense. I don't see any way in the world that Comey will be convicted. And I think there's a good chance because of the wholly unconstitutional, authoritarian way that this was done, that the case may get tossed out well before trial.

44:58Margaret Brennan:Wholly unconstitutional and authoritarian. That's quite a description. You used to work for President Trump. What makes you now characterize these actions that way?

45:11Rand Paul:Well, I used to work at the White House as a lawyer, interacting with the Justice Department in the Mueller investigation and other matters. And I was not Trump's personal lawyer. So So my role was really as a government employee and not personal to the president. He did have personal lawyers. But at the time, I was trying to perform the duties that were assigned to me. In this circumstance, I'm eight years removed from that. I don't have any allegiances or reasons to say anything other than balls and strikes. And former Attorney General Jackson, Justice Jackson, Nuremberg prosecutor himself, highlighted in 1940 that the most important thing at the Justice Department when he was Attorney General was that people not target individuals, that they merely pursue crimes.

46:19Rand Paul:Griffin Bell, years later, 1978, said essentially the same thing, emphasized how politics and favor have no business at the Justice Department. It's all about even-handedness. And I think we talked about the misrepresentations that Attorney General Bondi made about how she would proceed even-handedly. And she's wholly abandoned that and is now merely doing the president's bidding when he says, prosecute my enemies. now?

46:50Margaret Brennan:Yeah, well, the New York Times is reporting that half a dozen U.S. attorneys' offices have been ordered to draft plans to investigate a group funded by George Soros, who is a Democratic donor. You look at that, you look at the list of names of others who the president have said he specifically wants to be prosecuted or investigated. I'll read a few of them to you. Two former Trump officials, Chris Krebs and Miles Taylor. He also said he wants a federal investigation into former special counsel Jack Smith. The DOJ fired the 35 lawyers who were involved in the January 6th in classified documents cases.

47:28Margaret Brennan:Justice Department's now going after Fulton County DA Fannie Willis' travel records. We have quite an exhaustive list here. What is the pattern you see?

47:39Rand Paul:Well, I think if you go to 30 ,000 feet, what you see is a lot of moving parts, but The simple themes are rewriting history. Trump wants to rewrite history so that the next generation may not know that he incited a violent insurrection, refused to peacefully transfer the power of the presidency after losing an election, stole classified documents and showed them to friends and guests at Mar-a-Lago. and that he was a criminal. I mean, he's a convicted felon. All anybody involved in those events that offended him, they're in real danger. So you have the rewriting history stuff. The U.S. attorney that he appointed his personal lawyer, Lindsay Halligan, her role previously in the administration was trying to eliminate the theory that America had slaves at the Smithsonian.

48:40Rand Paul:She was there to whitewash the Smithsonian and paint America as something that it isn't. I mean, America needs to learn from the mistakes and lessons that we've had. And one of the biggest mistakes that America ever had was reelecting President Trump.

49:01Margaret Brennan:Well, a number of Republican lawmakers are declining to speak out and are leaving the door open that these cases are legitimate. do you think that the judicial system can resist what you are saying here as just simply politically motivated pressure?

49:17Rand Paul:I think that's an excellent question. I think, you know, the founders, when they drafted the Constitution, Article 1 is to Congress, and Congress has the greatest powers under the Constitution, spending power, war power, impeachment. Congress is really there to check the presidency. Congress has been neutered by the cowardice of the Republicans. Mike Johnson won't even seat recently elected Representative Gravolger because he doesn't want her to tip the balance on the Epstein vote. So Congress is totally in the tank and the judiciary is doing its best.

49:55Margaret Brennan:I'm going to have to cut you off. I'm sorry, because we're out of time there. Ty Cobb, thank you for your time. That's it for us today. Thank you for watching. For Face the Nation, I'm Margaret Brennan. Today's guests were Kentucky Republican Senator Rand Paul, Minnesota Democratic Senator Amy Klobuchar, Ohio Republican Congressman Mike Turner, Virginia Democratic Senator Tim Kaine, and former White House Special Counsel Ty Cobb. The senior executive producer of Face the Nation is Mary Hager, and the executive producer is Ann Hsu. This broadcast was directed by Shelley Schwartz. Face the Nation originates from CBS News in Washington.

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