Brooklyn Beckham, Brand Beckham, and family fallout

0:00Nicola Peltz:This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK.

0:07Nicola Peltz:It's 2009 and we're in the German mountains. A man straps himself into a car on the world's most dangerous racetrack. He whispers to himself, it's time to put my balls on the dashboard. As he starts the engine. In 15 minutes, he's in an ambulance unconscious. In 15 years, he's a billionaire. This is Toto Wolff, Formula One's most powerful team boss and the breakout star of Drive to Survive. This week on Good Bad Billionaire, how Toto Wolff made his billions. Listen wherever you get your BBC podcasts.

0:44Brooklyn Peltz Beckham:Hello, welcome back to another episode of Fame Under Fire with me, Amber Hack. I am jumping back on the podcast while Anushka and Sean are taking a little break. Quick introduction to me. I am a documentary maker. I'm a podcaster. I've actually presented a few crime series here on BBC Sounds that you might have heard of. Bad People. I also presented Gangster Presents, Sex, Drugs and Cell Block Parties. I also recently travelled to Los Angeles to report on how the Friends actor Matthew Perry died. That documentary is up on BBC iPlayer now. It's called Matthew Perry and the Ketamine Queen, if you want to check it out.

1:24Brooklyn Peltz Beckham:So you could say that I am very used to digging deeper into some of those grey areas, really, where celebrity meets controversy. So today on Fame Under Fire, the Beckhams, they are facing a very public and very personal fallout. And all of this is coming from inside the family itself. If you haven't seen it, Brooklyn Peltz Beckham, he is the eldest child of Sir David Beckham, the world famous footballer and Victoria Beckham, the former Spice Girl, now fashion designer. He has dropped a series of statements to his 16 million followers on Instagram saying that he doesn't want to reconcile with his family, that he has had no choice but to speak out now, accusing his parents and their team of countless lies.

2:17Brooklyn Peltz Beckham:So much for us to get into. So joining me now is Crisis PR manager Molly Macpherson and our BBC correspondent Nick Johnson. Nick, firstly, let's get into what exactly Brooklyn has said and why today is such a turning point because this story has been rumbling on for years, hasn't it?

2:36Nicola Peltz:Yeah, well, I think you say it there, Amber. I mean, today is a turning point because it's the first time really that the family has sort of aired its dirty washing really in this way. There's been rumours in the tabloids over many months of some sort of rift between Brooklyn and the rest of the family. But really in this social media post we got from Brooklyn last night, this is the first time it's been aired in such a public way and directly from him. Let's just have a look about what he's said. He's talked about Brand Beckham. He says, my family values public promotion and endorsements above all else.

3:12Nicola Peltz:He says, Brand Beckham comes first. Family love, and he's put love in inverted commas, is decided by how much you post on social media He then goes on to talk at length about his parents' attitude to his wife, Nicola Peltz. He says that his parents have tried to ruin their relationship, derail their wedding, he says, saying a promised Beckham wedding dress was cancelled at the last minute. And he goes on to say that his mother, Victoria Beckham, hijacked their wedding dance. So this is a sort of a scathing statement that is aired out there for his many millions of followers.

3:50Brooklyn Peltz Beckham:Molly, do you mind if I just bring you in here? Because Nick's just laid out some examples there. These accusations that Brooklyn has now put out publicly, they're so specific about the wedding dress being hijacked last minute, about his mother supposedly jumping in on his first dance and acting inappropriately. the fact that it is so specific from a PR perspective, does that make it harder to defend against that? It isn't something vague and general. Well, it's certainly difficult when it is a family drama as opposed to two different parties. You know, it's certainly within the family. But proper damage control right now does not look like an Instagram statement.

4:36Brooklyn Peltz Beckham:It's about containment. It is likely legal. It is NDAs. It's looking at contracts line by line. It is not going to be about dismantling the narrative that Brooklyn is putting out there. Victoria and David Beckham right now need to contain the brand, keep their collaboration safe and let everybody know that everything is fine and be a little quiet at the moment. There should be a statement, but it shouldn't match their sons. And of course, there is background to this stuff, right, Nick? Because even though Brooklyn is saying that he has remained silent so far in this statement, there's been a few rumours that have come out over the past year or so that he wasn't happy, for example, about his mum, Victoria, liking some of his Instagram posts and then subsequently that he'd apparently asked his parents to only communicate with him via lawyers.

5:30Brooklyn Peltz Beckham:There is some background to this moment right now, isn't there?

5:33Nicola Peltz:Yeah, it felt like things were bubbling away to lead up to this very public moment. But I think as well, this is all quite relatable, isn't it? It's a family drama and it's a family drama that's aired over social media. When we use social media with our family members, we're also perhaps one family member might nudge to another and say, well, did you see who liked so-and-so, who unfollowed so-and-so? And this happening on a much wider scale. And perhaps, you know, we'd be forgiven for forgetting that just one click, one unfollow, one like is not seen by so many people. But then you look at the Beckhams and those brief clicks have such huge ramifications.

6:13Brooklyn Peltz Beckham:So this statement from Brooklyn Beckham on Instagram has got everyone talking from my friends to my family. It feels like everybody has an opinion on things, but there has been a latest update, hasn't there, Nick? from Davos today?

6:27Nicola Peltz:Yeah, well, the World Economic Forum in Davos, that's a gathering of some of the most powerful people in the world. World leaders are there, world financiers are there. And David Beckham himself is there today at the moment at this resort in the Swiss Alps. And he's been talking to the American broadcaster CNBC. He's been talking to them about young people and their use of social media and how they can best use social media. and he's talked about how there are many dangers of social media which are well reported but also the positives of social media he's talked about how he uses his platform and his following to what he says try and make positive differences on social media but this is the interesting thing he says i've tried to do the same with my children to educate them they make mistakes children are allowed to make mistakes he says that's how they learn that's what i try to teach my kids but you have to sometimes let them make those mistakes.

7:22Nicola Peltz:So it's important that we're not misleading people and taking this out of context. He's not directly addressing Brooklyn's social media post here, but it's interesting that only hours after his son posted this, he is addressing young people and their use of social media and acknowledging the fact that young people across the world make mistakes in their use of social media.

7:43Brooklyn Peltz Beckham:Yeah, it is an interesting response and social media has played such a big part in this whole supposed feud, hasn't it? The fact that Brooklyn has spoken out about his mum liking his post. There's been a lot of public scrutiny, for example, of which family member has blocked who at a certain time and what that means. I mean, it's very indicative of the modern world that we live in, isn't it? Where this gets so scrutinised publicly. How does that play into something for a celebrity in this position, Molly, when everyone is talking about on TikTok analyzing likes, follows, blocks and the rest of it?

8:21Brooklyn Peltz Beckham:Well, Nick brought up a very important part of it, that this is a family drama. But in my work as a crisis manager, the same family dramas bleed into corporate dramas and brand dramas just like this. This is no different than normal families. But how interesting that David Beckham is coming out with a statement. It is not official. It is not directly discussing his son, but rather indirectly. That is a PR move. That is a PR statement. The framing is not going to be about dismantling this idea that Victoria is the mother-in-law from hell. They are going to frame the son as young, making mistakes.

9:02Brooklyn Peltz Beckham:And, you know, all kids make mistakes. All kids, you know, can veer off from their family values. That is very much an indirect, direct statement. And so much of Brooklyn's statement and some of the things that he's accusing his family of is prioritising public promotion and endorsements above all else. Nick, just paint a picture for us of how huge and global this brand Beckham actually is, because they are a commercial machine that are in so many different sectors.

9:35Nicola Peltz:They are huge. And it's been argued by many in the media and beyond in this country that they are perhaps second only in terms of a family brand in the UK to the royal family. They are huge and they've been around for many years. And I think it's important to remember that even before Brooklyn, their eldest, was born, obviously, Victoria Beckham, she was a Spice Girl, David Beckham, a young footballer. when the two of them got together, they'd managed to forge this huge media personality as a couple very early on. And when Brooklyn was born, that sort of continued and their subsequent children continued even more so.

10:16Nicola Peltz:And I think in the age of social media now, the fact that we're able to see that family brand play out and in sort of volatile ways it has done in recent months, that that's sort of, we've got a front row seat to that now. And that's something that we wouldn't have done perhaps 30 years ago, 25, 30 years ago, when David and Victoria got together, even though they were huge celebrities, even back then. But I think what Molly said about their very polished brand, and she's right saying that I think that even though David wasn't directly addressing the feud in that interview in CNBC, they've been around as a brand for 30 years.

10:53Nicola Peltz:I'm sure he knew exactly what he was doing when he was talking about young people and their mistakes on social media?

10:59Brooklyn Peltz Beckham:I mean, it's brought up a lot of feelings for me because I was a young girl growing up in Manchester. A huge Manchester United fan would go all the time with my dad to Old Trafford. And of course, I grew up watching David Beckham. And I remember when he went over to Real Madrid with Victoria and it was like his brand just took on this whole new weight and meaning around the world. This blonde hair, I remember he had it in this ponytail and he became a Galactico. And that name, Beckham, has just become a global brand. Talking about brand because it's so central and their name itself to everything that's going on in this story, Molly.

11:36Brooklyn Peltz Beckham:David and Victoria Beckham trademarked their children's names back in 2016. Brooklyn is now alleging that his parents tried to make him sign away the rights to his name before the wedding happened. What does an accusation like that tell us? Well, the accusation tells us a lot. And really, you went through it yourself, Amber. I mean, you saw the rise of the Beckham name. And certainly what David Beckham and Victoria Beckham have done since the 90s beyond is they understood the power of branding. But they also grew at a time before we really had social media. So these two, they're a couple who understand what it's like to not just brand in the 90s, but certainly into digital and social media and rely on the public.

12:25Brooklyn Peltz Beckham:Brooklyn learned from that. What he's doing right now is not leveraging the brand endorsement. He's leveraging the reputation endorsement. He knew when he put up stories on Instagram that those stories, that those statements would have a lot of power, not just in the UK, but in the U.S. as well. The U.S. right now, it feels people feel like everything is imploding. People are looking for another story to talk about. And this is the story. My messages, my DMs, everybody wants to know, like, what my thoughts are on this. That doesn't tell me anything about me. It tells me that people are very curious about this.

13:05Brooklyn Peltz Beckham:This is absolutely a brand collaboration, Instagram viral story. Which is quite incredible, really, because, of course, they are British celebrities. But the weight that they carry in America because of, for example, David Beckham's connection with Inter Miami, you know, it's huge. which played such a big part in making, you obviously call it soccer over there, but a huge global brand associated with the United States as well. And the language really jumps out to me in this, Molly, because Brooklyn has used some specific terms here. So we said, for example, that his mum chose to dance with him on the wedding and it was inappropriate.

13:46Brooklyn Peltz Beckham:I mean, that word is quite open to interpretation. He's also used the term facade that his parents and their team, they leak and shape the narrative. And the Beckham brand is all a facade in PR terms. Why can language like that be so damaging sometimes? You know, let's go to the beginning when when Nick mentioned, you know, this is a family. You know, family has drama, but they're not a very typical family. They're atypical, but they're acting like a lot of normal families out there. It's somewhat reasonable when kids grow up and parents disappoint them that they can weaponize or use social media against them.

14:25Brooklyn Peltz Beckham:We see that happen all the time. When it comes to the Beckham brand, however, it's as if Brooklyn knew exactly where to pierce the arrow. He knew how to get at his parents and how to hurt them. But it is still heartbreaking, you know, that you still have a family that's fractured right now. But I do see a place out for Victoria and David as parents, because a lot of people out there can understand their point of view, how difficult it can be to raise kids in the spotlight. There is a path forward. But what's interesting is they're also doing something that a lot of people at the center of a crisis or companies or corporations do when they're at the center of the crisis.

15:07Brooklyn Peltz Beckham:They blame the Internet. They blame the Internet. And whenever I see someone blame the Internet or blame social media or cancel culture, it usually tells me they want to cover something or they know that there is some blame there, some truth to the matter. All of this, you know, even looking at some of the comments underneath the Instagram posts, of course, you get people on both sides of the camp, so to speak, that some people are saying this is, you know, the eldest child who's grown up with all this trauma around him, finally feeling like he can speak out. But there is also on the other side, people saying that the Beckhams are real.

15:42Brooklyn Peltz Beckham:You know, they're going through something that all families can go through and actually it sort of humanises them. Molly's painted a picture there of how the story is being perceived in the States. But Nick, how huge of a story actually is this?

15:55Nicola Peltz:Well, it's certainly something that we like to say here that's of interest to the public, but perhaps maybe not entirely in the public interest. I'm just looking on the BBC news websites at the moment and it is, yeah, it's up there among the most read stories yeah, it is the most read story at the moment and I expect that to remain I mean, it is a huge deal I've just spent the first half of the day in the newsroom downstairs and with everything else that's going on in the world at the moment a bit like how Molly said in the US people feel things are just imploding similarly so here I think a little bit the news agenda has been bleak perhaps in recent days and weeks And I think this is really it's something that a lot of people are talking about.

16:38Nicola Peltz:And I think one of the reasons that is, is we've talked about family dramas and what have you. But the way Molly said that Brooklyn has gone for this and the points that he's raised in that social media post. I mean, weddings, right? Weddings are high drama for everyone at the best of times. There's always an issue at a wedding who's invited, who isn't invited. Someone wants some gossip coming out of the wedding, whether it's related to the bride, groom and family or not. and the fact that he's gone for those claims about the inappropriate dancing and the lack of a wedding dress. He's really hit the family and hit the gossip where he knows he's going to get it.

17:13Brooklyn Peltz Beckham:Yeah, I think as a story, it ticks so many boxes of things that the public are intrigued by. It's things that can feel deeply relatable. We all have families. Everybody has tensions, you know, of their own sort of kind. But people feel that it can burst that bubble of celebrity as well, that they are more accessible and real and fractured than we might like to think from a distance. What do we think could happen next then, Molly? Well, I'll say the brand Beckham doesn't die here, but it certainly changes. They're a family who've weathered a lot of stories and rumors and they're still intact. So now the brand can be a very relatable, flawed family.

17:54Brooklyn Peltz Beckham:You know, the claims of her being this vitriolic mother-in-law, she's not going to respond to it line by line. You know, we're not going to see it in Instagram. But I see something more dignified out of Victoria. I see them doing more indirect type of messaging, a la David Beckham, and they'll just get through it like they always do.

18:16Nicola Peltz:Yeah, similarly, I think this is not going to harm the brand in the long term. But I think from a news perspective, all of us are waiting for who says what next. Is Brooklyn going to say something else? Are we going to get something on camera? Are we going to get something on social media from David of Victoria or indeed one of the other Beckham children? So I think we're all waiting for who says what and who's going to come next. This is, of course, just one side of the story. The Beckhams have yet to respond. And as ever with such affairs, recollections may vary.

18:48Brooklyn Peltz Beckham:Thank you both so much for unpacking that with me. definitely on both sides of the Atlantic. People just cannot get enough of the story and it seems everyone has an opinion. So thank you for spending some time getting into it with us.

19:00Nicola Peltz:Thank you.

19:00Brooklyn Peltz Beckham:Thanks, Amber. As always, if you've got any questions, send them to us on social media or you can WhatsApp us on 0330 678 1114. That's 0330 678 1114. Don't forget to subscribe. Turn your push notifications on so you make sure you never miss an episode.

19:27Nicola Peltz:Who's in the news for all the wrong reasons? Step inside the world of crisis management and so-called spin doctors with me, David Yelland. And me, Simon Lewis. In our podcast from BBC Radio 4, we tell you what's really going on behind the scenes as the week's biggest PR disasters unfold. Simon and I used to be on opposite sides of a story in the media. when I was editor of The Sun and Simon was communications secretary to the late Queen. Now we've teamed up to share everything we know about what's keeping those big stories in and out of the press. As the great philosopher king Mike Tyson himself once said, everyone has a plan until they're punched in the mouth.

20:04Nicola Peltz:And there's a lot of people punching people in the mouth in this town. Listen and subscribe to When It Hits The Fan on BBC Sounds.

20:14Nicola Peltz:It's 2009 and we're in the German mountains, a man straps himself into a car on the world's most dangerous racetrack. He whispers to himself, It's time to put my balls on the dashboard. as he starts the engine. In 15 minutes, he's in an ambulance, unconscious. In 15 years, he's a billionaire. This is Toto Wolff, Formula One's most powerful team boss and the breakout star of Drive to Survive. This week on Good, Bad, Billionaire, how Toto Wolff made his billions. Listen wherever you get your BBC podcasts.