D4vd Preliminary Hearing: Day Five

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1:34Anoushka Mutanda-Dougherty:Hello and welcome back to Fame Under Fire from BBC Sounds with me, Anushka Matanda-Doughty. It is day five of the preliminary hearing of singer David, who was accused of the murder, unlawful dismemberment and continuous sexual abuse of 14-year-old Celeste Revers Hernandez, whose body was found decomposing in the front trunk of a Tesla linked to him. Warning, the details of this case are graphic and some listeners may find them upsetting. Now, David has entered a not guilty plea on all charges and his attorneys have previously told us that the actual evidence in this case will show that David Burke, that's his real name, did not murder Celeste Revers Hernandez and he was not the cause of her death.

2:09Anoushka Mutanda-Dougherty:We will vigorously defend David's innocence. Joining me now is our reporter, Sam Mulek, who's been inside the courtroom in Los Angeles all day. Hi, Sam. Hi, Anushka. Sam, we have our answer. David has been ordered to stand trial. Just tell me what the judge said in their decision. Yeah, so the judge said that the prosecution did meet the standard to prove that there was probable cause that David Burke had committed the crime with all three special circumstances. is she specifically made a point to again mention that it was a much lower standard than a normal trial. So after both sides presented their closing arguments, she read out of law text and she was very specific to cite her sources and to cite different cases to explain that the prosecution had done their job and they had explained that there was probable cause in each of the special circumstances.

3:05And so David remains in custody with the LA County sheriffs. She set no bail. And so as she read out the decision, it was just one of those moments in the courtroom where after five days of full day hearings, this is one of the most quiet moments of the entire proceedings. All you could really hear was typing of laptops. And then when she read it out, you didn't really hear anything except her voice. There wasn't much reaction from David. He was attentive for the entire proceeding, and he nodded along to show that he understood the results. And at the very end, when she explained that his arraignment will happen at the end of August, and from there, there will be a 90-day period for the trial to begin, we heard him respond, yes, Your Honor, which was the only words we heard him say the entire day.

4:00Anoushka Mutanda-Dougherty:And so when we're talking about meeting the bar for probable cause, like you say, it's a much lower evidentiary standard than beyond a reasonable doubt, which is what happens at trial. But the judges found that there was probable cause for the murder, the dismemberment and the continuous sexual abuse. When we talk about those three special circumstances, those are pertaining to the murder charge, the murder allegation, lying in wait, murder of a witness and murder for financial gain. And those special circumstances elevate it such that if it's proven, he could be eligible for the death penalty.

4:28Anoushka Mutanda-Dougherty:And you've told us before that District Attorney Nathan Hockman hasn't made a decision on whether they're going to pursue the death penalty or not. So we know that the defendant has the right to a speedy trial, whether they opt for that or ask for a continuance and extend the time, given the sheer amount of evidence that the prosecution alleged that they have terabytes and terabytes of evidence. I mean, I don't think that would be surprising, but we could have it sooner rather than later. I mean, this is what happened with Diddy. They went for a speedy trial and it happened relatively quickly.

4:55Anoushka Mutanda-Dougherty:Was Celeste's family in the room when this decision was read out? Celeste's family was in the room. So her parents did not attend the first part of the hearing at the beginning of the day when they continued reading out the different text exchanges between Celeste and David. But then they were present at the end when the decision was read out. Yeah. And it was off the back of another pretty heavy day. Can you just walk me through some of the text messages that were shown? Yes. So at the beginning of the day, we started diving into texts sent from Celeste to David that were showing threats. And this is something that the defense highlighted.

5:36And one of the texts that really stood out in the first portion of the day was specifically one where Celeste had become seemingly jealous of a relationship that David had with another woman. In the text, she says, OMFG, I swear to God, she was in my swear word. See, I will strangle you to swear death. I will tell my dad so many swear lies about you. Dad, swear I will end your career and life. I will damage anything. And so we saw a few different texts like these following the fallout of their romantic relationship. We see Celeste aware of how she can go to the authorities and report what's been going on.

6:24And so furthermore, there's a text where she tells David, I will mutilate your penis. The defense made sure to list out all of these threats that she had made to him. I will strangle you. I will kill you. I will lie to my dad. And she also made a point to say, I will leak all of your information. I will tell the world of this relationship that we have.

6:47Anoushka Mutanda-Dougherty:Did she ever specifically say, I'll go to the police? No. So she did not say that, I will go to the police. And this was key in understanding one of the special circumstances of eliminating a witness. And the defense is arguing that Celeste was more so focused on socially destroying David and telling David's parents and telling his friends. But because she specifically did not say, I'm going to go to the police, they're saying that that means David could not have been motivated to allegedly take out a witness because of that circumstance. So they're trying to argue that the elements that don't meet the bar for that special circumstance added on, which is a particularly serious one, because murdering a witness is seen as an affront to the justice system itself.

7:34Anoushka Mutanda-Dougherty:And for anybody who hasn't been following along, the allegation is Celeste was a witness to a crime being committed against her in that she was in an inappropriate relationship with David, him being an adult and her being a minor. And so therefore, she witnessed a crime being committed against her that she could have outed him for. and that brings in the special circumstance of murder for financial gain because David in eliminating or murdering Celeste such as the allegation he mitigated against a loss in his income but what you're telling us there these texts that we're hearing it's more about the final chapter of the story that the prosecution had laid out for us before in those pre-court briefings where they say this argument took place and the prosecution's argument is that immediately after there's this breakdown in the relationship and she threatens to do all these things that he concocted a plan to take her life.

8:23Anoushka Mutanda-Dougherty:Tell me about those messages on the day that they alleged that she was murdered. As we saw, key to April 23rd is the day before is that text we saw from Celeste saying, I will strangle you, I will kill you, I will hurt anything. And then the following day, we see them communicating about Celeste expressing that she wanted to see David that night. But David's saying, let's not see each other now. I'm going on a trip to Singapore. Let's wait until after that. And they have this back and forth, but Celeste keeps saying, no, I'm going to see you tonight. She's very persistent. And so eventually David does order the Uber.

9:04And this is kind of the timeline that the prosecution painted for the judge, which is that around 9pm, David orders the Uber and they're communicating while he orders it and communicating while the Uber is dropping Celeste off. I believe around 10.02 PM, there's a text from Celeste to David saying, I'm almost there, open the gate and open the door. And also earlier in the day, we see David and her communicate about, would you like food when you get here? And them agreeing to order in and out, which is just a very popular burger chain here in Los Angeles. So what the prosecution paints is that once Celeste arrives at David's house in the Hollywood Hills, there are no text messages from 10, 10 p.m.

9:53to about 10.30, 10.31 p.m. And this is when the prosecution is saying that David committed the murder. And then following that time, David then sends a message to Celeste's phone saying, where are you? And they're saying this is part of his plan to cover up the murder. And throughout the night, he keeps sending these texts saying, where are you? You know, why did you block me? Along the lines, you know, how could you do this to me? I think some of the text is just bro, bro, you know. So this is the timeline that they're painting until a bit later that night, they revealed evidence from David's Tesla.

10:33And that's when he made the trip to Santa Barbara to dispose of Celeste's ID card, which was later recovered.

10:39Anoushka Mutanda-Dougherty:So we know this theory of what took place. We've heard this from the prosecution before, we've read it before. Of course, it's the defense's job to pick holes in the narrative that they are presenting. And I believe that started with the lack of footage of Celeste getting out of that Uber. Yes, exactly. That's what the defense was emphasizing, was that there was no surveillance footage recovered of Celeste getting out of the Uber, nothing of her walking through the door into the Doheny residence in the Hollywood Hills. And then there was another point mentioned where they made contact, the investigators made contact with the Uber driver who said he remembered the location of David's house, but did not remember who specifically he gave the ride to.

11:26So the defense is really focusing on this to say that no one saw David and Celeste after 10pm that night. They're saying we don't know if there were other people in David's residence at the time. We never saw Celeste exit the Uber. So this is really the point that they're emphasizing in poking holes in the prosecution's case.

11:50Anoushka Mutanda-Dougherty:So no actual witnesses to place her there, the evidence being circumstantial, although circumstantial evidence, as we know, is weighted the same as direct evidence. But that's a trial conversation. But the defense, yes, trying to pick holes in that narrative. We also learned some more about Celeste's circumstances and who knew what when. Can you walk me through just how much knowledge not just her family, but his family had about their relationship? It was revealed in court that Celeste's parents were aware of their relationship. It was revealed that David had gone to church with Celeste and her family.

12:29It was revealed that Celeste's older sister, her friends at school, were aware of the relationship. it was revealed that Celeste had stayed at her aunt's residence in the Los Angeles area for a summer, I believe, to be closer to David. So we really kind of began to see the extent to which both families were aware. And they also noted that David's mom was aware.

12:56Anoushka Mutanda-Dougherty:Because they went to Texas to meet the family, his family. So this was presented in court that Celeste's parents notarised a child travel consent form dated September 23rd, 2024, which was used for David and Celeste to travel to London together. We haven't heard from the parents directly at all. We have not heard from the parents. We've only heard from the attorney for the parents, Patrick Steinfeld. And after court today, he emphasised that we would not be hearing from the parents. Right. Was there any indication as to if either David's mom or Celeste's family knew that the relationship was allegedly sexual in nature?

13:38Well, going back from the text that we saw on Friday, clearly, according to that text, David alluded to that his mother knew they were having a sexual relationship because he said in the text that Celeste asked him, does your mom know that we're having sex? and David said that's all she thinks we're going to do once we see each other. I think what remains to be seen is whether or not David's mother was aware of Celeste's age.

14:09Anoushka Mutanda-Dougherty:And that was a key point for the defense as well. They alleged that she had misrepresented her age on a number of occasions. Yes, this is another point that the defense made that when they initially made contact, Celeste told David that she was older than she was. Celeste told David she was 16 or 18 at different points. And then although this is a preliminary hearing and not a trial, you do get closing arguments. So Sam, can you walk me through what the prosecution had to say? So in the prosecution's closing arguments, they reviewed kind of the whole week we spent in court and all of the evidence we had seen.

14:43They were keen to point out that part of the motivation for murder can be proven by circumstantial evidence because the defense wants to emphasize that, you know, no one was witness to this murder. We still don't have the murder weapon. So much of the evidence that was presented was circumstantial. And the prosecution keeps emphasizing that this is still compelling enough to prove that David had probable cause to commit the crime. So the prosecution started with that night in question on April 23rd. They really emphasized how David concocted a plan. And they're saying that he had experience in carrying out and executing a plan before, like when he had tried to have Celeste move in with him and what they were referring to as Operation Awesome and showing that, yes, he is capable of concocting a plan and he was lying in wait.

15:39And the prosecution kept emphasizing throughout the closing arguments that Celeste was 13 years old. And to quote her directly, Beth Silverman, she said, we are talking about a 13-year-old child. And she also said that the defense is trying to dirty up the victim to say that she was threatening David, that she was unsafe as well, when she really made sure to emphasize that she was being groomed and that this was a 13-year-old in a sexual relationship with a 19-year-old being led to believe that this was okay and that this was something she wanted. So she went through each of the three special circumstances to explain that the evidence did back up the claim, starting with financial gain.

16:28And she laid it out very clearly with presenting the evidence of how much David stood to gain from his recording contracts. Again, the potential for$19 million in addition to the$10 to$11.5 million he had already made. And in addition to this, she also kept emphasizing that David was well aware of Celeste's age dating back to that 2023 body cam wellness check that we saw on the first day in court where the police officers went to David and said, do you know this girl? well, she's 13 years old. And so in carrying on in the closing argument, Silverman said that despite knowing her age, David continued this sexual relationship.

17:16Anoushka Mutanda-Dougherty:So we've actually had rather a lot from the prosecution before the preliminary hearing, and obviously throughout the preliminary hearing. But this is really the first time we hear the defense's arguments rather than them just cross-examining someone. So what did they have to say in their closing arguments? So the defense said that the evidence did not support the claim that David committed the murder. And they went through the three special circumstances and said that it was not sufficient. They showed how David had repeatedly expressed love and care for Celeste after they broke up. They showed that prior to Celeste arriving to his house on April 23rd, David was playing video games with friends.

17:57He did not show that he was a danger to any other people on that day or prior to that day. He had no history of violence towards Celeste. They emphasized that the medical examiner proved that the death was likely from the two penetrating wounds that Celeste sustained, but could not elaborate exactly on how the wounds occurred. He could not go into detail about what instrument was used. And they were saying this along with other evidence found in David's home, like the chainsaws and that there was no DNA testing, that the chainsaws didn't test positive for blood. All of these showed that there was not sufficient evidence to show that David had a probable cause to commit the crime.

18:45And they also just kept emphasizing David and Celeste's relationship, saying that on that April 23rd day, David kept saying, don't come over. Let's see each other at a later time. And he kept giving excuse saying, my parents are in town. Let's see each other another day, alleging that Celeste was the one who really wanted to come that night, really forced her way to come that night. The defense said that the evidence failed to establish that he was waiting and watching for her and developing this elaborate scheme to murder her and to dispose of the evidence.

19:25Anoushka Mutanda-Dougherty:So we've got them there addressing the murder charge, the murder allegation, the unlawful dismemberment allegation. But did they address at all the continuous sexual abuse of a minor under 14 years old? No, they did not go into detail about that. Something they did emphasise was that David expressed his love for Celeste after their alleged breakup, but they did not go into detail about the alleged relationship with a minor. I suppose what we've heard from them on that is earlier in the day, suggesting that he genuinely wasn't aware of her age because she'd misrepresented it. I mean, the judge has found that there was probable cause for all three charges.

20:05Anoushka Mutanda-Dougherty:So we are going to see this in court. I mean, I'm asking you to make a prediction here, but I don't think they're going to have a trial within 60 days of August 31st just because of the sheer amount of evidence. I don't think they're going to have a trial within 90 days. Yes. So at the end of the day, we heard from the district attorney, Nathan Hockman, and he said that what was presented in the last five days is only a fraction of the evidence that the prosecution has against David Burke. so he made sure that we all knew that there was much much more to come I don't know if there is also more to come from the defense but now that we know that the stage is set with what we do know which is certainly significant and powerful and compelling and of course we're going to follow along with that trial when it happens but just a reminder David has entered a not guilty plea on all charges and although the preliminary hearing they've established probable cause it does not mean he is guilty.

21:03Anoushka Mutanda-Dougherty:Sam, thank you so much for bringing us all those updates every day and staying up late to talk to us in the UK. We really appreciate it. My pleasure. Thanks so much for having me. That was our Los Angeles reporter, Sam Mulek. And that's it for this episode of Fame Under Fire from BBC Sounds, me, Anushka Matanda-Dawati. As always, if you've got any questions, send them to me on social media. It's Anushka underscore MD on Instagram and TikTok. And make sure you subscribe and turn on your push notifications so you never miss a thing, because in a few weeks we're heading out to Vegas to cover the long-awaited 2-pack trial.

21:41Anoushka Mutanda-Dougherty:Christmas 1988. A plane takes off from Heathrow Airport. 38 minutes later, everyone on board is dead. A Libyan man, Abdul Bassett al-Megrahi, is convicted of murdering 270 people. But that's not the end of the story. Almost four decades on, fresh evidence and a new trial. I'm Miles Bonner. In this podcast, I'm delving into a world of extremist groups, mysterious intelligence agents and global politics. From Radio 4, this is Intrigue, Lockerbie. Listen first on BBC Sounds.