D4vd Preliminary Hearing: Day Three

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1:29all charges and his attorneys have previously told us that, quote, the actual evidence in this case will show that David Burke, that's his real name, did not murder Celeste Rivas Hernandez and he was not the cause of her death. We will vigorously defend David's innocence. Joining me now is our reporter Sam Mulick, who's been inside the courtroom in Los Angeles all day. Hi, Sam. Hi, Anushka. So we're going to get into the evidence that was presented today, including, which I think is a big takeaway, the fact that DNA was found in David's Tesla and garage that matched Celeste and her DNA was found at 11 different locations in his garage.

2:02But today, actually, I want to start with the final witness, which is someone from the Los Angeles County Medical Examiner's Office, and somebody we've been keen to hear from since this began. Sam, can you walk me through what they had to say? So the final witness of today, with just five minutes left in the day's proceedings, was someone from the Medical Examiner's Office who investigated Celeste's body, or more accurately, what was remaining of Celeste's body. And he only had time for a few details, but the details were quite significant. And one thing that he said is that when they were analyzing the body is that it only weighed 71 pounds.

2:42I believe he said that it measured five foot two inches. And he made sure to note that the body was markedly decomposed, those were his words, which interfered with their investigation. He didn't have time to go into details yet about the specifics, but he did mention that her extremities were dismembered. So this is what we are going to hear first thing tomorrow. And everybody's been keen to hear from somebody from the coroner's office, because there was such a delay in determining the cause of death. And we're hearing, because of the state of decomposition that Celeste's body was in, that it made it particularly difficult.

3:23There was no cross-examination of them. I'm assuming there was no time. No, there were only a few minutes left in the day's proceedings, but the cross-examination, I'm sure, will be happening tomorrow. Yeah, although it was only five minutes, it's pretty harrowing stuff to hear. Was Celeste's family still in the courtroom when this was said? They were not present at that moment. They were there earlier in the day when other evidence was presented. but they had left with LA County District Attorney Nathan Hockman who made a brief appearance and then Hockman left with the family before the medical examiner staff member could make his testimony.

4:03Yeah it will be interesting to see what happens with that witness as they go into cross-examination because if you listen to our resident trial attorney Sean Kent he feels like this is going to be a key sticking point for the defence to really interrogate how strong that cause of death is. I'm sure we'll see some of that tomorrow. But I want to talk about the next witness. This is a criminalist, Samantha Tosh. She's a science expert who collects and analyzes physical evidence from crime scenes, also known as a forensic scientist or forensic investigator. Sam, we heard a lot about the possibility of blood inside David's residence yesterday.

4:34Can you tell me what Samantha had to say today? Yeah, so this was one of the more compelling parts of the day. So Tosh had the opportunity of analyzing the Tesla and the evidence found in David's garage. And yesterday, as was presented in court, that the red stains in the lower trunk of the Tesla revealed the possibility of blood. Now we're going a step further, and Tosh presented evidence that DNA samples collected from those red stains in the Tesla matched as a single source profile consistent with Celeste. And she went into detail, broke down exactly what that means, but essentially it means that the DNA was at least one septillion times more likely to have come from Celeste than from another person, basically meaning there's no kind of such thing as perfect mathematical science.

5:33But this, for all intents and purposes, is a DNA match to Celeste found in David's Tesla. And talk to me about what was found in the garage. So Tosh also presented evidence of what was found in the garage and went through a variety of things and kept identifying that DNA samples collected from multiple items also presented either single source profile matches or a slightly less degree of match, but still in the quadrillions, which is zeros upon zeros, more likely to have come from Celeste than from another person. So among those, as we talked about yesterday, was the black rubber mat. Tosh had the chance to look at the red stain on the black rubber mat, determined that Celeste DNA matched the red stain.

6:25Also from the Tesla charger plug in the garage, from the rowing machine, and also from the hand wipes that were found in the trash bag in the garage. So as we're sitting there in court, after each item is presented, the charger plug, the rowing machine, the hand wipes, the prosecution then asks, what was the result of your analysis? And Tosh says it was a single source profile consistent with Celeste Rivas Hernandez. At that point, I was sitting a couple rows behind Celeste's family. And at this point, again, in the proceedings, I saw her mother look down, put her face down. I couldn't really see more than her just not being able to look when her daughter's name was presented again and again and again and confirmed again and again and again by the criminalist on the stand.

7:21Well, this really is new information to us because we know what the prosecution's theory is. They've been very upfront about that in their pre-court briefings and the press conferences that they have given. But this is the first time we've heard about DNA evidence linking the site of the garage to the Tesla. Before, it was just them saying he ordered this blue inflatable rubber pole, the chainsaws, etc. And then this is what happened. But now that link appears to be stronger. Was there a cross-examination done by the defense? Yes, there was a cross-examination. Before I talk about the cross-examination, I think one other interesting thing to mention is that the garbage bags in the garage were also tested for DNA, which came back as consistent for two possible males, including David Anthony Burke.

8:05And in total, Tosh said that she found 11 locations where the DNA sample was consistent with Celeste. But yes, today we really did get a better look as to what the defense's approach in the cross-examination and in attempting to poke holes in the prosecution's argument. And, you know, essentially after each witness and with Tosh, the defense attorney, Blair Burke, made an attempt to demonstrate the inconsistency and lack of reliability with DNA testing. At one point, Ms. Burke used the example that if she were to shake someone's hand, put her hand on the table, and then the potential of two people's DNA could then appear on the table.

8:56And so this was kind of her strategy in trying to discredit DNA. She also made a point to mention that DNA testing does not reveal when or how or how long the DNA sample had been on an object. She really is trying to emphasize that it is not a certain science. It is not conclusive from her perspective. And what was David's reaction to all of this? Again, we saw David in the court today pay full attention to the proceedings and be attentive, be silent and watch. Again, there was really no reaction. There was one point earlier in the proceedings right after the lunch break when we resumed court that David came back out, sat in his chair, and we saw him have a lengthier conversation with Ms.

9:49Burke because most of their interactions are fairly short, fairly pointed. But this one, we could see them kind of having a back and forth. I did notice David smiling. I noticed him nodding, having kind of a just a positive demeanor at this point while he was conferring with his attorney. Well, that's the thing with a preliminary hearing that's getting so much attention. The way that the defendant behaves is going to be scrutinized whichever way they choose to carry and hold themselves. And we're seeing this all over social media already. David's reactions to things are being analyzed by, I mean, content creators, news influencers, whatever you want to call it.

10:25Have you witnessed David at all looking at the family? Not once. and then again we have this focus on the blue inflatable pool we have an LAPD criminalist Lisa Alejandro who examined the pool and fragments of the blue material that was collected from Celeste's body what can you tell me about that yeah so this was another interesting part of the day when Alejandro went through her analysis of the evidence including the pool and she broke down how she was able to identify the cuts made in the pool and she was describing them as straight or or scalloped is the word that she used, meaning inconsistent, jagged edges.

11:04And she went into detail as to how she used a stereo microscope to establish a physical fit of different fragments of the pool, basically meaning that smaller tears of the pool that were recovered were placed next to the bigger pool as puzzle pieces, showing that, trying to demonstrate evidence that the pool was cut apart, fragments fell off and that, you know, these blue fragments that fell out of the pool are legitimately from the pool. And so trying to, you know, establish that this physical fit is an exact match, like a puzzle piece. The puzzle piece to what was found on Celeste's body. So that is exactly what the prosecution is trying to demonstrate.

11:49So at another part of the day, The clothing that was removed from the corpse, which included a Forever 21 tube top, Skechers socks, a Victoria's Secret thong, and leggings. There were also blue fragments found on the pants. So this is part of the prosecution trying to paint a picture for how Celeste's body was dismembered and painting the picture that, you know, this is why David ordered the pool to inflate and to dismember the body. And that's why we are seeing these fragments of the pool, these cuts, these tears. And we're seeing these fragments show up wherever the corpse is. We're seeing these fragments show up.

12:44So blue plastic fragments found on her leggings that they say links to the blue plastic pool found in David's garage. I don't know why, but kind of hearing about what Celeste was wearing seems to hit particularly emotionally hard. Was there much of a reaction to that from the family? Not that I could see at this moment. Again, the family, you know, Mr. and Mrs. Rivas are really, they're sitting there. They're surrounded by the family attorney and interpreters. They are not drawing really any attention. They are sitting there supporting each other. It is just the mom and the dad sitting in the front row, listening to everything, trying to keep it all together, it seems.

13:29Well, we know the framework of what the prosecution are alleging happened because we've known this for a while. They've actually repeatedly told us in the lead up to this preliminary hearing. Now they're presenting evidence that creates a closer link between what they say happened in the garage to Celeste being left in the Tesla. But one of the things that we've referred to as a digital diary of potential evidence that they go through is David ordered chainsaws to his house. He ordered cadaver bags. He ordered this blue inflatable pool. and the implication being that the chainsaws were used to conduct the unlawful dismemberment of Celeste's body.

14:04But the chainsaws were tested for blood and came up negative, right? Yeah, so this is something the defense is really emphasizing since the chainsaws have been introduced to the court is that once the chainsaws that were in the garage were tested for blood and showed up negative, meaning that there was no possibility of blood, that the criminalists decided not to DNA swab the chainsaws. And this is something the defense keeps asking the witnesses about, you know, why did you conclude that there was no need to DNA test the chainsaws? And at one point, one of the witnesses said, if a chainsaw was used to dismember a body, there is no way to clean it, that there would be no trace of blood.

14:50But the big detail being as of now is that there is no evidence of David's DNA on the chainsaws that have been introduced to the court as of this point. I mean, that's a huge thing to hear, the fact that there'd be no way to clean a chainsaw so that there was no trace of blood or DNA, because that's really the only thing that they've put forward to explain how the unlawful dismemberment, which David denies, took place. So I'm interested to see whether they introduce another theory of the preliminary hearing or whether the defense are going to really zero in on that. But it's the first time we've heard that.

15:27Now, we've focused on the garage a lot. We've focused on the Tesla a lot. But his movements came up again, trips that he took. We heard about him taking a trip and the prosecution say disposing of Celeste's photo ID. What did we hear about David's movements in his Tesla today? Yeah, so we heard about multiple trips to Santa Barbara. And again, yesterday we heard testimony from a California law enforcement officer about Celeste's ID being found on the side of a highway in Santa Barbara. And so today we heard from a Los Angeles Police Department detective detailing David's location records according to his phone and according to his Tesla.

16:11the detective was able to demonstrate to the court that there was evidence of the Tesla and the phone traveling to Santa Barbara to that location that the California Highway Patrol officer identified yesterday as to where the ID was left on the side of the highway. But again, this wasn't the only trip to Santa Barbara. There was another one on the night of April 23rd that David had made to Santa Barbara. So the detective was using both the phone and the Tesla evidence. However, this was kind of another point of contention and a point that the defense continued trying to bring up as to trying to demonstrate that the phone records and the Tesla records were not precise.

16:57And there was a bit of a back and forth between the defense and the detective with the defense saying how precise is the phone records, the detective saying, yes, I mean, I cannot identify exact latitude and longitude. I'm not presenting exact latitude and longitudinal points. But what I am presenting is something that is more accurate than a general area and using software that has previously proven where someone is, like previously has been able to track where someone is. again, we're seeing the defense try to discredit the way that these conclusions are being reached as to David's whereabouts, David's actions, David's DNA.

17:43So this is day three of the preliminary hearing, and we've heard a lot of evidence about the garage. We've heard a lot of evidence about the Tesla, the unlawful dismemberment, and how Celeste's body was kept. That's what the prosecution allege. But we haven't heard much about the nature of the relationship between David and Celeste. And we know that the DA's office, though, they told us that there's multiple text messages to show that would convey the inappropriate nature of their relationship. So we can assume that's still to come in the preliminary hearing. Was there any indication on what's going to happen tomorrow?

18:11Well, we know tomorrow that the hearing is going to pick up with more testimony from the medical examiner's office. I think we will hear details about the corpse that was found in the Tesla that is alleged to be Celeste Rivas Hernandez. However, beyond that, we can only guess. We did also hear earlier in the week from the family attorney that evidence would be brought into light about the nature of Celeste and David's relationship. We had the earlier peek into the West Hollywood wellness check in 2023, where it was revealed David's knowledge of Celeste as a person. So based on what the prosecution has presented before this hearing began, there is a lot to come specifically about the details of the body, the details of the killing and the details of their specific relationship.

19:16And again, any sexual abuse details of the relationship, those are all to be established in the court as of right now. And of course, all of this is to prove probable cause to move towards a trial. And they're all just allegations from the prosecution that David has repeatedly denied. So we'll see what the defence say in cross-examination to all those points. But Sam, thank you so much for coming and filling us in today. Thank you for having me. That was our reporter, Sam Mulick, talking to me from Los Angeles. And that's it for this episode of Fame Under Fire from BBC Sounds with me, Anushka Matanda-Dawati.

19:48As always, if you've got any questions, you can send them to me on social media. It's Anushka underscore MD on Instagram and TikTok. and make sure you turn on your push notifications so you never miss a thing because after this preliminary hearing, we're heading out to Vegas to cover the long-awaited 2-pack trial. If you've got a scrolling problem, then this is the podcast for you. It's called Top Comment with me, Matt Shea. And me, Marianna Spring. We both investigate social media for a living. Whether it's disinformation, conspiracy theories, internet culture, memes. We're going to be getting behind the stuff that is popping up on your feed on this podcast.

20:21That's Top Comment on BBC Sounds.

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