Diddy on Trial - Diddy bail hearing gets heated

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1:24Shaun Kent:Hello and welcome back to Diddy on Trial from BBC Sounds with me and Nushka Matanadao team. Now, for the past eight weeks, I've been here at the Southern District of New York Court, here in New York, watching this trial and giving you the updates. You've been with us since last November when we were covering civil cases. Remember, those are concerned with Diddy's money, compensation for alleged acts or cognizable damages. We followed every twist and turn of this case and every released and unreleased yay song where he's sampling Diddy's kids or Diddy himself. Now, inside that courtroom, we've had seven weeks of evidence from the prosecution.

1:54Shaun Kent:They called to the stand Cassie Ventura, who was in an 11-year relationship with Diddy Jane, who's using a pseudonym to protect her identity. Both of those women testified to alleged years of abuse. They say they were forced to participate in sexual performances we've come to know as freak-offs or Wild King nights or hotel nights. We also heard about bombshell balcony dangling allegations. We heard about alleged bribery. We heard about distribution of drugs. We heard about alleged arson with Kid Cudi's car. Now, what the prosecution were trying to do is meet the burden of proof to convince those 12 everyday Americans who made up the jury that Diddy had committed these crimes.

2:28Shaun Kent:The defence? Well, they only presented a defence for 30 minutes. They showed some texts that were loving between Cassie and Diddy and Diddy and Jane, texts where Cassie and Jane were expressing that they were sexually aroused by freak-offs or hotel nights. In their closing arguments, they spoke about Diddy as a philanthropic figure, as a black mogul, as someone who beat the odds and made a name for himself. Now, what they were trying to do is pick holes in the prosecution's argument, and today, the verdict is out. It is not guilty on count one. racketeering with conspiracy. That's the big one.

2:57Shaun Kent:That's where he was facing life in prison. It is not guilty on count two. That is sex trafficking in relation to Cassie Ventura, his former romantic partner. It is guilty on count three, transportation for prostitution in relation to Cassie. It is not guilty on count four, sex trafficking in relation to Jane, who's using a pseudonym to protect her identity. It is guilty on count five, transportation for prostitution involving Jane. Now, when it was read out in the courtroom, Diddy kept his head down. There wasn't much emotion from him, but afterwards, He got on his knees, he put his head in the chair in front of him, and he began to pray.

3:28Shaun Kent:While his defence lawyers patted him on the back, they were high-fiving and hugging each other. Make no mistake, although he is guilty on two counts, the transportation for prostitution counts, this is a victory for Diddy's defence team. Them getting him acquitted of the biggest counts, racketeering, that is a huge accusation. Him being acquitted of that and sex trafficking is a massive victory for them. And that was reflected in their celebration. The children were clapping. I saw them afterwards. They were dancing down the hallway. His son was skipping, they were high-fiving. His mum gave a thumbs up to the press.

3:58Shaun Kent:And outside the courtroom here, when the verdict was announced, they were cheering in the overflow room and they were cheering in the main courtroom as well. It's safe to say that a lot of people are very happy with how this has turned out. Across social media, I can see a lot of people are quite shocked. Some people are celebrating, some people are waiting to see if he's going to walk out of that courtroom today. And that is a possibility. So we're going to head back inside now and see what the judge has to say.

4:26Shaun Kent:It's 6.25. We're done for the day in court. Judge Arun Subramaniam has made his decision about bail. I'm here with the BBC's New York Digital reporter, Sakshi Venkatraman. Hi, Sakshi. Hi, Anushka. Thanks for having me back after this insane day in court. I'll say. We all need to put our feet up and go to the bar. But we're not done yet because we need to tell everybody about what was the second big decision of the day. Well, did he remain incarcerated until his sentencing? So sentencing doesn't happen immediately. What did the judge decide? The judge has denied Diddy bail even after pleas from the defence to consider that he's been a model prisoner, that he should be released to his family.

5:04The prosecutors and the defence got into it today and we'll talk more about that obviously. But the headline from today is that Diddy was denied bail, he will not be coming home.

5:13Shaun Kent:yeah and then Marco Canifilo did his lead counsel making a very impassioned sort of running speech which went on for quite some time which he did recognize about the many reasons why Diddy should receive bail and why there is a precedent for that citing multiple case laws and saying even the thing he's been convicted of under the Mann Act I mean he wasn't transporting people for the purposes of prostitution to make a profit which is usually what we see this was for participation He cited one prominent case from 2008 where a U.S. sitting governor was using prostitutes and did not even receive charges.

5:46Shaun Kent:So he was saying this is a unique case and the judge should make a unique decision that recognizes that. But once again, the judge fleshed out his decisions and his decision making process. And it has to do with some of the stuff that defense argued during the trial. So the biggest reason that Judge Arun Subrabanian cited for not giving Diddy bail and letting him go today was that Diddy clearly has a history of violence. The defense has said this outright from the beginning. They said this in opening statements that if this was a trial about domestic violence, we would not be here. They repeated this throughout the trial, two closing statements saying that, you know, what happened to Cassie Ventura was domestic violence.

6:24Agnifilo said very clearly in closing statements, we own that. And Judge Arun Subramanian quoted him and brought these things up, saying, even citing the Intercontinental Hotel video where, you know, you can see Diddy beating Cassie and dragging her down the hallway, saying that this is a man with a history of violence. The judge said domestic violence is violence and it would be a risk to allow him to go.

6:46Shaun Kent:Yeah, and he said there's no way to police that type of violence because it's interpersonal. It's behind closed doors. So speaking to the specific type of violence that Didi and his defense lawyers have owned up to using their words against him. And now what was the reaction from the rest of the family? So the family, it was kind of hard to read their expressions. But earlier in the day, the family obviously was jubilant given the news about him being acquitted on the more serious charges that he was facing. But the bail being denied was definitely a setback. And you could see that on their faces.

7:17Shaun Kent:And I have to say that the two of his daughters, who were the twins who people might know, they're 18 or 19 years old. They lost their mother, Kim Porter, and Diddy's been in jail. And Mark Igniflo pointed to them during this impassioned speech and said, look, they don't have a parent. Those are significant circumstances. But the judge said, you know, that is a personal argument and that just doesn't meet the bar. Igniflo said, I don't want to pull on heartstrings when I shouldn't. But then he did talk about Combs' children. He said that Combs is a changed man. He's not the person that he was when he was filmed beating up Cassie in the hallway of that hotel.

7:53Ignifolo said that he's been to a domestic violence program before the federal investigation even started. And to that, the judge cited that Combs' violence actually has been going on up until very recently. During the course of the trial, we heard from Jane, who said that in June of 2024, which was just before he was arrested for federal charges, he was being violent with her.

8:16Shaun Kent:And the prosecution then also expanded on that, saying even after he knew he was being investigated, he continued with the criminal conduct. And when he was arrested in the hotel he was in, he had supplies with him for freak-offs. And remember, freak-offs is where this transportation for prostitution was taking place, that he was convicted of under the Mann Act. And Maureen Comey got up from the prosecution and said the only thing that are significant about this defendant is his wealth, his success and his brazenness. and then spoke about that specific instance of violence in 2024 with Jane and saying that even under investigation he continued doing this and that is brazen.

8:49Shaun Kent:But Mark Igniflo came with a response to that pretty quick. He did. He said, Listening to Miss Comey makes me appreciate that we have juries. So actually me and you, this is both our first trial that we've covered, seven weeks inside that courtroom with the family, with his mum in the canteen, with the lawyers, with the influencers, with the journalists. What's a standout moment for you? I mean I think that something that a lot of people in that courtroom would be hard pressed to forget is the image of Cassie Ventura nine months pregnant on the stand sobbing and just breaking down. It was a moment that I don't think we'll ever leave anyone that was in that courtroom.

9:25Shaun Kent:Of course yeah and I mean something that the jury considered when they were making their decision and saw more evidence than we ever will. It's been crazy outside the court today. Here are a few people who turned out for verdict day speaking earlier to senior producer Crystal after that verdict came in. The reason why I'm here is number one, one of his bodyguards was a best friend of mine that passed away. He had nothing good to say about Diddy, he had nothing bad to say about Diddy. The fact that with all the charges that was against him, I felt as though it was overreached. I felt most of these charges should have been done in a state level as opposed to a federal level.

10:00I'm just glad that the verdict went the way it did. Of course, I would have loved to acquitted all five charges. But come on, let's be fair. I'm a fair man, OK? Give him a little time. He can redeem himself.

10:12Shaun Kent:That's the thing about America. If white folks can redeem themselves, why can't black folks redeem themselves? I'm a strong believer that we all must pay for our sins, even me. But I'm also a believer that white America needs to pay for their sins first. I'm happy that it turned out that way. So the two counts. I mean, he was guilty of it. For a woman, if a man is giving you$10 ,000 a month for your rent and also giving you just money because you're calling and you're asking him for money, I just can't see how he coerced her. I don't see that. Well, I have a deep connection to hip-hop. I interned in the music industry, and I saw firsthand how wild it can be.

10:57I feel that it's time now. The verdict is a wake-up call to address the whole industry. It's not just Puff. It's a bunch of music execs, interns, artists that are behind that blue wall of silence, and they need to come forward and speak so we can better the music and better the industry. The verdict is a wake-up call for the music industry.

11:16Shaun Kent:I feel that somehow Sean Combs could have become the fall guy for what is happening in the industry, and I feel that is unfair. I'm here because my platform speaks very highly against the campaign against domestic violence. For me, this wasn't about Sean Puffy Combs. This is about women that are currently in domestic violent relationships. I think it's an atrocity. The reaction of listening to people say, free Sean Diddy Combs, and the smiles and the laughter, it's disgusting. I don't know what kind of message that sends to the people that are currently in relations right now that can't get out of them.

11:51It's plaguing millions upon millions of women. And it leaves also a message to men out there that you can do this and get away with this. Sakshi, looking ahead, what happens now? So as of now, Judge Subramanian has set the sentencing date for Combs to be October 3rd. That date is pretty far away. In fact, for Combs attorneys, that date is too far away. They're attempting to expedite the process. as Combs in court today was even waving and trying to say something. Mark Ignifla almost had him stand up and say something, but ultimately they decided not to. But they are arguing and trying to push that date closer, and they're meeting again on July 8th to figure out if that is possible.

12:31Sakshi, thank you so much for filling us in today.

12:34Shaun Kent:Thank you for having me back, Anushka. That was the BBC's New York digital reporter, Sakshi Venkut.

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13:22This was someone I respected above anyone else. And the investigation led by students he's trying to silence. If this is leaked to the media, I'll be destroyed. This is World of Secrets, catching my teacher. Listen on BBC.com, the BBC app or wherever you get your BBC podcasts.

13:52Shaun Kent:As you guys know, criminal defence attorney Sean Kemp from South Carolina has been with us every step of the way since last November explaining this case. And now he's on a little holiday, a vacation in London. And I'm here in the States, so we switched. But he's here and he's going to give me his opinion on everything that's gone down. Hi, Sean. You've been watching this trial all along, even before. You've been with us since November last year. What's your immediate reaction to the verdict? If you would have told me on day one when the indictment came down, or would have asked me what would have happened, I would have bet everything in my life that would have been a guilty, because that's what happens when the feds.

14:29if you would have been taking me later through the discovery. And I kept saying, he's going to be in trouble when that superseding indictment comes. And then when the questions started coming out, I think you and I started talking. I think I even made the suggestion that this was a possibility yesterday because that's the way the tea leaves were riding. And I hold hard to this. You can never predict what a jury will do, ever. And nobody out there saw those freak-off tapes or all the videos other than the jury. So I would guess the long and short is saying, As of today, I'm not surprised.

15:01Shaun Kent:And a lot of people at the court and certainly some supporters on social media are reacting as if this is a completely not guilty verdict. And that's not true. He's been convicted of two charges of a serious federal crime. Just talk to me a little bit about the transportation for prostitution crime. How much time could he get for this? What's the severity? Well, there's a couple of things you need to look at. One, this is a felony. So he is going to be a federally convicted felon, which is not good. but that's not something anybody ever grows up and says they want to be a convicted felon. Two, I looked at the guideline range.

15:32It looks like he is starting. His base offense level is, I think, a level 14, which puts him in the 15 to 21-month range. And then there's some enhancements that could go on top of that. If they say he's a leader, things of that nature, he may be more so looking at the 51 to 61-month range. So I think he's looking at months to years, realistically.

15:57Shaun Kent:If you had to point out some mistakes that the prosecution made, what would you say? I am a big fan of the justice system. I believe in our system. Twelve strangers picked to make a decision. I believe usually, whether people like to hear it or not, they get it right. When you and I talked a couple of weeks ago, it might be like two weeks ago when you asked how the government had done. I said, what separates this from most federal charges is you never, and I mean never, see a federal case when every single witness has warts. They were not able to put on one witness who couldn't be properly cross-examined.

16:33And that's from Cassie Alldown. If you look at Cassie, there's a question about their relationship back and forth. If you look at Jane, there was questions back and forth. If you look at Kid Cudi, he didn't see the arson. So every single witness, there was something about them that you couldn't be 100 % with certainty.

16:50Shaun Kent:And when you say warts, things that raise questions enough such that you can say there's reasonable doubt there. Just talk to me about some of what Cassie had. I know people might be thinking, what do you mean? Cassie got up there and gave an extremely emotional testimony. And she was so young when she met him. What could her warts, if I adopt your phrase, possibly be? Well, don't forget to prove. And first, let's go with the sex trafficking. To prove sex trafficking, they must prove coercion. It's not that they must prove coercion specifically from Cassie's eyes, but they also must prove it from Diddy's eyes.

17:24And if you go and you look through all of the text messages, there was a give and take that I enjoyed these things. I love these things. These things were fun for me. And so there was a question back and forth, I think, possibly from the jury that they would say, how would this defendant have known she wasn't into it if she wasn't texting how much she liked it back and forth? I thought a lot of her text messages hurt them. Now, a lot of her testimony was emotional. A lot of her testimony was very strong. A lot of her testimony was credible. But there was also parts of her testimony that you could look at and say, she gave as much as she got.

18:01She herself signed off for a lot of the freak-offs. So a lot of times what could happen, And this jury, believe it or not, possibly just couldn't have liked her. Or they could have said there's a reasonable doubt. There's so many things that we don't know that could have gone into it. And we won't know until we interview the jury.

18:17Shaun Kent:When we've been talking about this, you thought it was nonsense that people were saying that Diddy was being targeted or he was receiving harsher treatment because of the color of his skin. This has been an undercurrent of the entire trial. Your reflections on that now, looking at as a black man in the USA, as a criminal defense attorney in the deep south, how do you think this plays? Surely this is showing that he was given a free and fair trial. Absolutely. And people don't like to hear this. And I'm glad you asked this question. As an African-American male in the south, it is fascinating for me.