Inside Rebel Wilson’s bombshell legal battle

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1:28Shaun Kent:Hello and welcome back to Fame Under Fire from BBC Sounds with me, Anushka Matanda-Doughty. And joining me right now is our resident trial attorney, Sean Kent, who's actually in the middle of a federal trial right now. So thank you, Sean. You're more than welcome. How are you doing? I'm doing good. How's it going? It's going. We'll know better by the end of today. I can't stress this enough for those of you who don't watch this on YouTube, but listen on BBC Sounds. Sean is wearing a suit where the pinstripes are made up of tiny versions of his own name. I just feel like it's my duty as a public service journalist to let you know that.

2:01I'm a subtle guy. I'm subtle. I'm understated. It shows my humility. It's what I like.

2:07Shaun Kent:How much did that set you back? The gross national product of Peru, give or take. It was 100 % a stupid purchase, but that's why I wear it whenever I can. And this coming from the man who tried to buy an elephant. We purchased said elephant. They just refused to deliver. That's a different story. Also, can I say shout out to the girl that I saw on Halloween in the Prince of Peckham pub when I was three sheets to the wind, who told me she's been rocking with us since the beginning of Diddy. It's so crazy to me that, like, I don't know. I know people listen to the podcast, but, like, it's just lovely to see it out and about.

2:39Shaun Kent:And she was asking me loads of legal questions. I don't know who she is, but I love you, lady. Yeah. Big fans. Big fans. Big fans. We've got a big one today. a wildly expansive legal battle going on that spans two different countries. It's an explosive legal saga involving Hollywood A-lister Rebel Wilson and the producers and a lead actress of the movie The Deb. It involves multiple lawsuits across Australia and the US and includes claims of defamation, when aren't there claims of defamation on this program, sabotage and false imprisonment, as well as allegations of sexual misconduct and embezzlement.

3:11Shaun Kent:The lawsuits are really complicated. And come on, this is coming from us when we used to wade our way through those 400-page Diddy lawsuits. They are really complicated. We're going to focus on the key areas of the dispute. It starts with the producers of The Deb filing a defamation claim against Rebel in Los Angeles. Now, Sean, I'm going to walk you through this. You haven't seen this before. Usually you look at stuff before. I want to get your, you know, in real life reaction to this. So Rebel Wilson, she's an actress. You might know her from Pitch Perfect. She's been in tons of stuff. She is a proper, proper A-lister.

3:42Shaun Kent:she had a theatre making scholarship in Australia where she wanted to support Australian talent and it offered a one-year mentorship with her and the Australian Theatre for Young People in 2019 Hannah Reilly was selected as the winner of this scholarship for her submission of The Deb now Rebel says that over the next three years she helped transform Hannah Reilly's brief synopsis that's quote brief synopsis into first draft of the film at which point she starts looking to go and get it financed like typically you go to like a production house and you try and get them to buy into the movie finance it enter amanda ghost and her husband gregor cameron who own a production company called unigram now rebel alleges that amanda ghost was happy to finance the film but would not do it with this unknown writer hannah riley at the head of it it says quote in a bid to procure wilson's heavy involvement in the film ghost offered her a guaranteed shared writing credit with Riley.

4:39Shaun Kent:Now Rebel says that she went on to quote essentially assume all writing responsibilities but when the official credits are being added she says that Amanda goes voided on her promise and she wasn't credited. So we've got this dispute about what Rebel is being credited with on this movie. Now the producers say although Rebel was contracted to provide additional writing for the film she was never promised a writing credit for the film. They also claim she's a bully who will disregard the interests of others to promote her own film and that she granted a young artist a scholarship to develop a screenplay for the deb and then tried to claim writing credit for herself this whole dispute was taken to adjudication before the australian writers guild who ruled the credit belongs to hannah riley a decision rebels team later called flawed and unjust so what does hannah riley say because she's embroiled in this she's a she's a young writer She's told Variety magazine previously, what should have been a joyous experience, a dream come true has now been overshadowed by unnecessary drama.

5:37Shaun Kent:It's heartbreaking and a baffling turn of events. And so this is kind of the backdrop of what's going on in this film, right? My question to you, Sean, is Rebel says she had these promises made to her by Amanda Ghost, who is the producer. She says, you're going to get this joint writing credit. We want you at the helm of this. We want your fingerprints all over it. But these promises were made in what rebel terms, an oral agreement, a verbal contract. I mean, I don't understand even the saying verbal contract, because isn't that just a he said, she said? If nobody recorded it, nobody taped it, then what the hell is a verbal contract?

6:16Well, first of all, verbal contracts are legal at law. Like you can make an oral contract and they're absolutely legal. They are as enforceable as any other contract. The problem with verbal contracts is exactly what you're pointing to. How do you prove said verbal contract? And so when we have individuals come to us and say, I had a contract with X. So what we try to do is say, well, what outside proof do you have to prove said contract? Did anybody else hear it? Was anybody else on the phone call? Do you have any extraneous information that you have acted upon the information that you were actually given?

6:50And so that's what ends up becoming hard. Like if you think for argument's sake, Anushka, you and I get into an agreement and I say to you, hey, I'll cut your grass for$1 ,000. And you say, okay. And we just say that, we shake hands, we go, and I cut your grass. And then all of a sudden you say, well, I never promised you that. Well, that becomes the battle. And I would go to the court and say, well, why would I cut this woman's grass for free? And so those are the things that go back and forth. But yes, oral contracts are legal at law. The problem is in figuring out the terms.

7:19Shaun Kent:So we've got this bubbling tension in the background about this writer's credit that seems to be kind of underpinning what's going on with the movie then we have allegations of sexual misconduct so the producers claim that because rebel didn't get her way with the credit because the australian writers guild didn't find in her favor that she quote escalated her tantrums they claim that she created a false and malicious tale regarding an innocent interaction between miss ghost amanda ghost and the lead actress on set of this movie that lead actress is charlotte mckinnis and she was just 24 when she was doing this film as her first film so in their defamation claim they say according to rebel miss ghost forced the actress to stay at her penthouse apartment and engaged in inappropriate behavior that made the actress feel uncomfortable in truth the penthouse apartment was rented for the purposes of housing members of the cast and crew for the film and contained private quarters for each resident additionally the actress in question soundly denied any claims of inappropriate behavior by amanda ghost or ever being made to feel uncomfortable.

8:21Shaun Kent:In Rebel's response, she says she claims Amanda Ghost and Gregor Cameron engaged in a, quote, highly inappropriate relationship with the lead actress. She alleges that Amanda Ghost propositioned McInnes to stay in their apartment at Bondi Beach with her for the duration of the pre-recording and filming of this movie. Ghost insisted that McInnes stay with her in her room despite several people being vehemently opposed. And Wilson alleges that Charlotte McInnes, the lead actress, confided in her as the director of the film that ghost asked me to have a bath and shower with her and it made me feel uncomfortable now rebel goes on to say in her lawsuit at the time this was mckinnis's first film acting role and like many other women in her position she was forced to acquiesce to her supervisor's demands for fear of losing her job something we've spoken about time in memoriam on this program this was a clear abuse of power she says akin to the quote casting couch behavior that is unfortunately prevalent within the TV film industry.

9:18Shaun Kent:Upon information and belief, McInnes remains captive by Ghost and Cameron as she is shuttled from city to city with them. She claims that they've made Charlotte McInnes sign an NDA in exchange for the lead role in another project. Now, here's where I find this gets a little confusing. So we've had these allegations of sexual misconduct made by Rebel Wilson, the producers vehemently denying it. Charlotte McInnes, the 24-year-old lead actress in Rebel's film, is now suing Rebel Wilson in Australia for defamation, saying the claims are false, malicious and damaging to her reputation and career. She explains the bath incident, saying Ghost experienced a medical episode after entering cold water at Bondi Beach.

10:00Shaun Kent:McInnes helped Ghost back to her apartment where they and others were staying and helped stabilize her condition by running a hot shower and a bath for her. Both women remained in their bathing suits. The legal documents filed by Charlotte McInnes includes excerpts of text between Rebel and Amanda Ghost about the incident. In one, Rebel says, quote, Charlotte says she's all good. She just meant it was a bizarre situation, not that she personally felt uncomfortable. And in another, Ghost tells Rebel that Charlotte has said it was definitely just a misunderstanding. Sean, the producers are suing Rebel Wilson for defamation.

10:34Shaun Kent:They are actually suing her for defamation per se. And they're saying she said all of this stuff because she's pissed off about not having her writer's credit. So in that defense of that, rebels come out and said, well, this I'm not defaming you because this is true. This is what happened. And that is her answer. Because Charlotte has now filed a lawsuit in Australia saying that's not what happened. So can you bring in lawsuits that are happening in another country? Oh, yeah. You can do that. Absolutely. Because this is all information, information. This is necessary information that people might want to bring in because what's happening in that lawsuit, Anushka, is the same thing.

11:10You still have depositions. All a deposition is a sworn statement. That sworn statement, no matter where it is, is a statement that's been said. So it can be brought in. And so the lawyers in California will be getting in touch with the lawyers out in Australia. They'll sit down and talk and they'll bring all the information, all the discovery, all the statements.

11:27Shaun Kent:But Rebel's saying in her lawsuit, she's outlining a power imbalance there. So she's saying, well, of course, Charlotte McInnes is going to say this didn't happen. She's young. She's at the beginning of her career and two powerful producers are offering her other roles as an enticement to not act upon what Rebel alleges happened. So is there a mechanism within the law where you say this person is an adult? They say this didn't happen to them. But I, as the director of this film in this case, Rebel says she has a responsibility for her cast and crew. I know that they are in a vulnerable position.

12:03Shaun Kent:And therefore, I am saying this out of protection for them because they will not say it themselves because of the context. Is there a thing? There is. You're not. Yeah, absolutely. It was your first podcast. Think about it. That it literally is your first ditty pocket. That's the mechanism. The United States government or a prosecuting agency, if they believe that these situations are true, that's when they get involved. Rebel Wilson is not a prosecutor. She is an outside source. It doesn't matter what she personally believes. She doesn't have the right to do and come forth and say, I believe this is an awful situation, so I must get involved.

12:37I am the champion of this people. No one cares your personal beliefs or your personal opinions. That's up to the government, the prosecutors and so forth. That's the third party who can come in on behalf of vulnerable victims, not Rebel Wilson.

12:49Shaun Kent:But it does make sense that Rebel would be saying this in this case because that is the defense against defamation is, I know this is true and I said it. Truth. Truth is the absolute defense. And she say, if this is true and this happened, it is the absolute defense. The problem is once that young lady says this did not happen, then your situation is not true anymore because you are making the you're making the allegation that this is a forced, coerced relationship. And she's saying it is not. So the truth defense goes out of the window. So Charlotte denies this happens. The producers denied that this happened.

13:22Shaun Kent:And Rebel makes these allegations in her in her lawsuit and denies the claim that she's doing so out of spite because of this writing credit. Now, look, Wilson's lawsuit, Rebel Wilson's lawsuit also says this early on. And this is kind of in the preamble. I don't know if that's the right term for it. Before you get into the factual allegations where they like to tell their story and set their scene and lay out the context of this universe, which this lawsuit is taking place in. It says, quote, Hollywood rumors have swirled about Amanda Goh's canny ability to groom young women, swooning them with gifts of glamour and promises of fame and fortune before peddling them to the ultra wealthy.

13:59Shaun Kent:Through this service, a talentless ghost has carved her lane in the entertainment industry. Sean, in just that quote, what do you take that to mean? I mean, that is them trying to set the scene, influence other individuals, because, of course, that's not evidence. You understand? Like, I mean, that's not evidence. That is literally, I mean, we've seen how many losses have we gone through now in which that preamble, and that's an excellent way of describing it, is a superfluous bit of information that is put in there to put people on notice on this is what we think is going on, period. Because that's not evidence of anything.

14:36It doesn't change the fact that this young lady is saying it did not happen. You understand? Like, she has been grooming, she has been doing this, and I'm not saying it is or isn't, but let's say it is true. It doesn't change what happened in this situation. There's a long lady saying, didn't happen to me, and I haven't reported and haven't done anything. So that's how you know that this is just an extraneous bit of information that's just out there for people like me, people like you, to watch, read, and talk about. The ultimate cookout starts with the ultimate ingredients. At Whole Foods Market, no antibiotics ever.

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15:58Shaun Kent:I know that what you say in lawsuits is typically protected against defamation. We've covered that before. Absolutely. You want to hear about that, you go and look at the dismissal of Justin Baldoni's lawsuit. So you listen to our episode on that and why that got dismissed. The use of the word service in that quote and the thing that she is describing is very far away from the actual points on the timeline of these allegations. Is there ever a leg to stand on as a defendant where you say, well, in their preamble, they've actually said a lot of stuff that implies a pattern, implies, you know, this grooming a service, peddling people to the ultra wealthy.

16:38Shaun Kent:That is so far beyond the dot by dot allegations of what we're actually talking about, that it is defaming me in a public lawsuit. And I have an issue with that. Or is anything you write in a lawsuit automatically protected? Not automatically protected. At the end of every lawsuit in Ushka, we have something called a verification. And in the verification, one, you require the client to sign it and two, the lawyer has to sign it. And what the lawyer is saying is under our oath as lawyers in almost every state, there is a requirement that you must have a good faith belief on why you have said the information you have said inside of your lawsuit.

17:13So it doesn't mean that it has to be true. OK, make that clear. You must have a good faith belief in what you have put inside of your lawsuit. So if it turns out to be false, these lawyers will later say, well, we had a good faith belief. Maybe Amy, I'm sorry, maybe Rebel told us that this information had and this and I believe it. And so based upon that, the lawyer can say, I have a good faith belief because my client told me it is accurate. And that's all that's really required. You just can't lie. Now, if it turns out you are boldly lying and know you're lying, yes, you have a problem. But if you have a good faith, rational belief based upon information that this could be true, then you have no problem.

17:52Shaun Kent:okay so we've got the writing dispute the credit dispute the allegations of sexual misconduct rebel alleges that cameron and ghost and executive producer vince holden who's also a defendant were also embezzling money from the movie they flat out deny this she also says at one point she was imprisoned in a room by cameron with two local producers and forced to sign several documents under duress which they once again also deny the lawsuit alleges okay this is the imprisonment This is in Rebels lawsuit. Quote, before Cameron would let them out, he demanded that all three producers sign a document titled Producers Meeting Minutes.

18:30Shaun Kent:In relevant part, this document claimed that, number one, Wilson had no specific allegations of inappropriate behavior by producer Amanda Gose. Rather, it is Rebels opinion that there may have been inappropriate behavior, but it is her private opinion and remains that. That is what Rebel says was on the document that she signed. I want to make that clear. That is what Rebel says. If that is true, how the hell does that help Ghost and Cameron and Holden or anybody, any of the defendants in that? Because it acknowledges that this was her true and honest belief of what was going on, but that it was a private opinion.

19:06Shaun Kent:But that surely is a defense against defamation. Absolutely. And I mean, and before I go too far in it, I would love to see the document because I'm sure normally that would be put inside the lawsuit. And so I'd love to see that document before I give some type of cursory opinion on it, because I think that would be very interesting. And then when that's coupled with the false imprisonment allegations, which are strong allegations, as you understand, you can't just throw those type of allegations out boldly. So you better have some strong facts on that. But it is as simple as secreting it, not letting somebody out of the room, locking the door, confining so they're uncomfortable and can't get out.

19:40So that's a strong allegation. I would love to see that document, because if she's saying I was forced to sign it, didn't want to sign it, then of course the document has no merit whatsoever.

19:48Shaun Kent:You talk there about false imprisonment, false imprisonment. That don't make no sense to me. Why do they call it false? If you're saying you actually were imprisoned, what's false? Well, false imprisonment is, and the reason they say it false is you don't have a right to imprison that person. Like a proper imprisonment is when law enforcement, you are, you know, when some of our clients are arrested, they can't claim false imprisonment. It's like, no, they arrested you. You were properly imprisoned. False imprisonment is when if the cops knocked your door in right now and locked you up and you didn't do anything wrong, your claim is I was falsely imprisoned.

20:18I did nothing wrong. You shouldn't have locked me up. In a rebel situation, if you locked that door, you had no right to imprison me and not let me out. I did nothing wrong.

20:26Shaun Kent:Well, and let's make it clear once again that they completely deny all of this. Completely deny, yes. But in July 2024, Rebel posted the allegations on Instagram and we have a clip of that. I won't be threatened. I will speak the truth and warn people about these people in the industry who are just not behaving ethically. And shortly after that Instagram post, Ghost, Cameron and Holden filed a defamation lawsuit against Wilson in Los Angeles. They call her a bully. They say she has a history of fabricating false and malicious lies to hide her own lack of professionalism. Sean, you touched on this a little bit earlier, but they're actually suing for defamation per se.

21:08Shaun Kent:Could you just remind us the difference between defamation and defamation per se? If it is defamation per se, if there are certain things that you that under the law, there are certain things you just should not say about somebody that damages are presumed. OK, there are certain things if you say we know it's going to hurt someone's reputation. So the damages are absolutely presumed. And that's what defamation per se. You have been damaged. We don't know the amount of the damages, but if it is said and we prove those elements and it is per se, those damages are assumed. So we can go to the jury and say, this happened.

21:41Let's talk about how much money is owed. In a defamation case, just a regular defamation, being disrespectful to somebody, if you will, the damages are not presumed. So the big difference is damages.

21:53Shaun Kent:The last time we spoke about defamation per se, if people will remember, was in the dismissed, but now being brought back again by Drake, Kendrick, Lamar, Drake, Beef, that's made its way to the courts. the defamation per se there is that Kendrick was accusing Drake of having a sexual attraction to minors. Certified lover boy, certified pedophile. I am no judge or jury, but you call somebody a pedophile on a world stage. I can understand how that lines up with defamation per se. In this case, the allegations of sexual misconduct are taking a bath in a shower together, propositioning a 24-year-old actress to move into your penthouse.