The New Celebrity Lawyers: When Social Media Meets the Courtroom

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0:30Shaun Kent:Whole Foods Market. Make your summer sizzle. How did a ballerina build one of the most controversial companies in finance? This week on Good Bad Billionaire, Luana Lopez Lara, the youngest self-made female billionaire on the planet. Her company, Calci, lets you trade on anything from elections to the weather to war. Supporters say it predicts the future. Critics say it could undermine democracy. So is she a visionary? Or has she turned the whole world into a casino? Good Bad Billionaire. Listen wherever you get your BBC podcasts.

1:27And like, I want to like God save the queen and all that stuff.

1:30Shaun Kent:Oh, Sean, she's passed away. We've been through this. I don't believe you. Sean is like, yeah, you know what they say? The first stage of grief is denial. I don't believe you. I do not believe you. Shout out to you, Lizzie. Gone but never forgotten. Anyway, I'm glad we're here because the episode today is pretty much about Sean Kent. So I got him live in the flesh. My favorite topic. My absolute favorite topic. Period. And I think this is a very fitting episode because we've been talking for ages, since November 2024, going into the Diddy trial, and now across pretty much every celebrity legal battle that there's been.

2:04Shaun Kent:And we are always talking about Diddy, Kanye, Blake Lively, Justin Baldoni, you name it, Rebel Wilson. These are the celebrities. This is fame under fire. But the landscape is changing rapidly. 100%. There are some other superstars in the courtroom and it's oddly you. Sadly, it's. And, you know, we always thought it was going to happen because court TV in America started because of the Menendez trials. And so people were a little bit focused on the Menendez brothers at that point in time. And the reason I talked that up is then that switched and became the O.J. Simpson trial. And of course, remember, O.J.

2:42Simpson had the dream team of lawyers and he had Robert Kardashian, who we know the family he beget. And then we talked about Johnny Cochran and everybody thought that that was going to be the wave that everybody was going to focus on attorneys. And then it went away. And now with the advent of social media, people being able to watch, folks are starting to focus on the lawyers.

3:01Shaun Kent:And I think this is really important because perhaps not everybody knows what's going on on short form content apps like TikTok. Right. There's an infrastructure that's been developed there where if you make a video over a minute long and you get a certain amount of views and you have a certain amount of followers, you're invited into a creator fund program. and you're encouraged to keep posting videos. And some of the most fruitful topic areas for that has been legal battles. And particularly, I think this started with Diddy because there was content, not even every week, every day. That man was getting sued every hour.

3:28And as you know, your algorithm, if you looked at one Diddy video, then all of a sudden you got 75 content creators who are Diddy this. As you know, when you went to New York, going to the courtroom and people showing up and content creators trying to get into the courtroom because they knew it was a cottage industry that was going to help them make money. And so they were all over it at the time.

3:47Shaun Kent:The thing is, though, content runs out. Yes. And once you've spoken about what came out that day, what was in that lawsuit, etc., what happened in court that day, you don't have anything else to talk about. But the app necessitates that you keep posting. It encourages you because you now have things called creator insights where they say this term is rising up. You need to start making videos about this, this, etc. So they're now focusing on even the most minute, tiny details. But one of the things that's got increased focus is the lawyers. and also there are some lawyers out there who do be posting on social media every day now that is Sean you post you haven't missed a day you have not missed a day since you blew up I know this because I see your videos every day yeah um and have your post notifications on because I'm a good friend modesty and it was crazy because you are like allergic to technology that you managed to do that yeah I can't figure out I still can't figure out but now people know Sean can so you blew up on TikTok around the Diddy trial because you gained 32 million views on one video and then it's kind of been going ever since.

4:44Shaun Kent:So you have a presence on that platform. But then your trial that you were recently in was on Court TV, same as lots of other trials you've done. And people started connecting the dots going, that's the guy I follow on TikTok. It was wild. Can you talk me through what happened? Because as you know, we're on all of those platforms and I like to educate. It's just something that I did as a side job, a side hustle. And I don't want to say hustle because we weren't monetized. We weren't trying to make money off of it. It's just something that I enjoy doing. But still, my priority is trying cases. And we've tried a lot of cases, as you know.

5:16And so we had a case, I got involved on it, United States, or I say State of South Carolina versus Rick Chow. Thought nothing of it, just like another case, like a typical case that we'd have involving with court TV in the courtrooms. And what's wild, Anushka, is I was not fully aware of what was going on outside of the courtroom while you're inside of the courtroom. And it switched quickly from people focusing on the trial to focusing on me, which I've never had.

5:46Shaun Kent:But there is a reason. Can you talk through the allegations? And the allegations of the case are different from what made it a big deal. But in the simple parlance, what made it a big deal for the world to find out about is Rick Chow is an Asian store owner in South Carolina. And the allegations were that a young man went inside of his store. And when he left the store, that Rick chased him along with his son outside the store and summarily ended up shooting him. Now, what made it such a big deal was that five second blurb is the world ended up thinking that Rick Chow, the Asian, shot an African-American male in the back.

6:19That's all we heard. He was 14. He was 14 years old. And so if you make it even simpler, it became Asian man shoot black kid in back. And then it became Asian man shot black kid in back over stealing a bottle of water. So that became a big enough deal. And then when Rick Chow hired an African-American lawyer, me. You are? Yeah. You finally see me in person. I never noticed. Never noticed. Everyone else did. And so we represent him. You know, his family came in and they hired us and we represented him. And it became a national story. And the story began to focus on how could an African-American lawyer represent an Asian man who was accused of shooting a young black child.

7:04And so the story then turned into what is the role of criminal defense attorneys? What is the role of a person to their culture? What is the role of their person to their community? What is the role to the jurist? So it became a edict, if you will, on the practice of law. And then everybody and I mean, I don't say everybody, but I would say 80 percent of the United States had an opinion on what lawyers roles in the representation of anybody. And then from what I understand is the trial became a big deal. And then when he got a not guilty on a trial that no one thought was winnable, then it became a bigger deal.

7:41And when I say it became a big deal, my family, we got death threats. The FBI was involved. The state law enforcement. You never told me that.

7:49Shaun Kent:And I was calling every day to make sure they didn't burn you. I don't know if you were one of the threats. I don't be trusting you. What? What? I don't trust you, Brits. That's true. I do threaten to steal from you every time I speak to you. Yeah, I don't trust you, Brits. And, you know, Saturday is the anniversary of something. Yeah. And we got you back. 250 years of belt. Anyway. What? America. And so it became everyone had a graphic opinion on their position on the role of criminal defense attorneys. And it made me think at one point in time, I thought about one of our conversations that I just gave everybody the bird's eye headline.

8:26And that's all people cared about. No one wanted to hear the underlying facts and background of what happened about and what ends up happening. It made me think about some of our conversations that the world cares about headlines. Yeah. And then the social media influencer loved the vitriol that was coming with the anger on the conversation. So nobody talked about the underlying story. It's just like, you know, he was found not guilty and 12 people voted for him to be found not guilty. So there's a lot more to the story. What was the young boy's name? Cyrus Belton.

8:52Shaun Kent:So the accusation from a lot of people was that Cyrus was racially profiled by Rick Chow, Rick Chow's wife and his son. Yes. And then the further accusation was that they then hired an African-American lawyer for optics, essentially to the jurors, which we're going to get into in a second. But I've spoken to you so many times about this because as a journalist who reports on all kinds of trials, you have to have a respect for the judicial process in its entirety. But I perhaps I understood what a criminal defense attorney is. And I understand like how you live your life and how you practice. But I don't really get it from that.

9:25Shaun Kent:You can understand something in theory. And then when you see somebody, you know, do it. It's like, oh, that's what this is like. And we've spoken so many times about different cases that you've taken people you've represented that they've done been or been accused of all sorts of things. Awful. Oh, we've represented awful. I mean, we've represented people accused of awful allegations. And you cannot sit there at one point in time and say, well, I'm going to represent you because I think you're a good person, but I'm not going to represent you because you think you're a bad person. And as you and I talked about, what would end up happening a lot is people were so, and I don't mean this negatively, they were shocked to see that I'm actually a lawyer.

10:03You know what I mean? Social media has created this world where they're like, if you read a lot of the comments, like, wait, he's a lawyer? Like, he actually does trial work? Wait, that's our butt? That's our lawyer. We don't like him anymore because he's actually a lawyer. I'm like, wait, where did you think these conversations were coming from?

10:17Shaun Kent:Yeah. And what would also happen is I think you've seen a lot of the posts we talked well before we took on the representation of Rick Chowars. I've represented some very unpopular people and you take these cases. And then when you said it in practice, the world was like, yeah, go get them. And then when it actually happens, it's like, boo, we hate you. Yeah. And that was a part of me that was like, did he have to take that case? And then I'm like, well, what does that mean? Because he's committed to the job. like it was an internal kind of thought process that I was going through. And I'm like, but you addressed it.

10:51I addressed it head on.

10:52Shaun Kent:But when I spoke to you, because I was doing daily welfare checks, not that I could help because I'm a million miles away, but I was like, hope he's not dead. We need it for the podcast. Fair, fair. But I was calling because people were threatening to go to the law firm. People were posting pictures of your family on TikTok. Absolutely. And you said, I know I've got to address it. And that surprised me because typically with lawyers, we just think of them as like they do their job. Maybe they cut their check and then they keep a step in and that's what they do. But you were like, I know I need to speak.

11:22Shaun Kent:I speak every day on lots of different topics. I need to address this. And you did put out a video about it. And it did change a lot of the conversation around. Well, actually, perhaps this is a really talented African-American lawyer. We're seeing it's there's two things happening at once. This might be a tragedy for the community. But at the same time, we're seeing an example of black excellence. That was one of the conversations that was taking place online. And then we started to see a switch up. Oh, Sean Kent's an amazing lawyer. You need Sean Kent on your team. And so we had this other case with Carmelo Anthony and Austin Metcalfe.

11:52Shaun Kent:I think I'm pronouncing it. You're saying perfectly, yes. And then all of a sudden, that's an African-American boy who stabbed a young white boy. Same age, I think, at school. Same age. Yeah. And everybody was like, well, you should have had Sean Kent on your team. And this was within a period of time of like two weeks. One. Yeah. Because I was like, they're going to kill Sean. And then the next week I was like, crown Sean. I'm not sure what's happening. It is going to sound so egotistical, but it should be studied. Like it should be studied that two weeks in American jurisprudence of the way that things switched so quickly.

12:26Like the Tuesday after trial, we were, I think, the number one trending topic on TikTok, but not for a good reason.

12:33Shaun Kent:Yeah. And I didn't like that. I'd swipe and I'd be like, no, this is my friend. What's happening? It was not for a good reason. It was not. Oh, he so did. And it was. And then it switched like the Carmela Anthony verdict came back. And I enjoyed the fact that the world started understanding the role of criminal defense attorneys a little bit more and how they could make a massive difference. But it was really wild how it switched. We didn't care either way, because, like I said, the people who are still wanted our representation were still calling us still like even after people are being negative.

13:04The representation people still calling because this is what we've always done. And so to sit here now and say, oh, my God, I'm so worried and so upset. I was just like, oh, no, it was on a bigger scale than normal. But you can't change who you are. You can't change your profession.

13:16Shaun Kent:But that was the first time that's happened to you, right, where it's like they were putting pictures of your family. And that was the first time with families like we've gotten threats before. And if you think about it, it's an adversarial process. But people creating content about it. Because it came at a time, I mean, that universe of creators is pretty well established off of the back of Diddy and then into Blake Lively. There's a lot of people who are making money out of this. And suddenly you were the person that they were talking about. This isn't the first time that this has happened. We've seen a few other lawyers who've kind of cemented a position in the cultural conversation.

13:46Shaun Kent:Brian Steele being one of them. Drake has a song around Brian Steele. If you were with us for the Diddy trial, you will know he was brought on as one of Diddy's criminal defense attorneys. And he famously won the Young Thug trial and famously said that Thug stands for truly humbled under God. That particular clip of him saying that as a defense to them accusing that Young Thug was like an aggressor and violent. and he's saying, well, his name is actually giving blessing to God, saying this is why I'm here, to serve God, truly humbled under God, that's what thug means. That clip went viral. Yes.

14:15Shaun Kent:And then suddenly Brian Steele was everywhere. So that was kind of an amuse-bouche of what happened with you. But then you had this Drake song. So now he's cemented in the culture. It's like if you've got Brian Steele in your case, you're going to win because he wins the unwinnable. We've got this man who's referred to as the billion-dollar lawyer, your friend Drew. Drew Findlay. And 50 Cent's making a documentary about it. I was like, since when are we getting like documentary about the lawyers? And Drew is a great lawyer and he's an amazing person. Because he represents like half a hip hop. He is literally the hip hop lawyer.

14:44And here's the wild part. That's I don't want to say you get a niche, but what ends up happening is he probably represented one person involved in hip hop. And then, you know, and then they tell two friends and then they tell two friends and then they tell two friends. And that started happening to our law firm. What's ended up happening? And we've been 25 years, you know, we've never had trouble getting cases or doing a good job. job but now all of a sudden it's like oh unwinnable case call sean kent and that's how it used to be and now it's even and now i'm just like oh my goodness and so the phone calls i could blow your mind with some of the negative and crazy phone calls we had we had one phone call where a man called in and i happened up they're like he wanted to speak to me and i talked to me just like hey man i just want to let you know i'm on one of your posts one of your things i called you a blank blank blank blank and just told me every nasty thing he had said about me and i was like okay And he paused.

15:33He's like, my nephew's in trouble, though. I really need you. I was just like, well, why would you lead with all the nasty stuff? And his response was, well, I didn't want you to go look it up and then like fire me or something later. So I just want to get it right out of the open. I'm just like, OK.

15:48Shaun Kent:But that's crazy. But there are some significant impacts of that, that I don't think we're aware of how this is going to reverberate, particularly in that sphere of like trainee criminal defense attorneys, people at law school, because not only is it now scarier, you take the wrong case and everybody's bored and they need something to create content about and you're on court TV, suddenly you're getting death threats, et cetera. Yes, there was always going to be a spotlight on you if you take a case with somebody that the culture had decided they don't like, but this is another level because there's a monetary incentive.

16:20Shaun Kent:Do you reflect on that? Do you worry about people entering the profession and being deterred from entering the profession? I'm worried about it a lot because we got a lot of calls. I mean, a lot of calls. And I am worried that there is going to be a chilling effect on the practice of law. And we've gotten a lot of calls from African-American males, white males, so forth, who are worried about going into the field of criminal defense. And their fear is, how am I going to be able to take on this representation because it might ruin my career? And then my response is very simple. Don't do it then.

16:48If you cannot go in there all in with true representation, then this is not what you need to be doing. And I think you've heard, I am a big proponent of our United States Constitution. And so that has got to be the higher calling of are you protecting the Constitution and protecting the human beings' rights? And if that's what you're doing, you can represent anybody. If you start to pick and choose who you care about and don't care about and so forth, then you have a problem. If you go simply to the Rick Chow case, and I'm not saying have a duty, but I tell people, what if Rick Chow was telling the truth.

17:22Shaun Kent:And he was found innocent. And he was found not guilty. So if he's telling the truth and, you know, we've glazed over the fact Rick Chow's story and all of this thing is, yes, we were chasing this kid out of the store. We were 100 percent. And when we caught up to him, because we thought he had been shoplifting, turned out he wasn't. But before we could get there and ask him any questions, the young man turned and pointed a gun at my son. My son threw his hands up and said, help, help, daddy's got a gun. And my dad, Rick Chow, pointed a gun at him and said, drop the gun, drop it. And the son saw a gun pointed at him.

17:57He never dropped the gun, so he ended up shooting him. And when he was talked to 911 in the first statement was, look, I thought he was going to kill my son. So the question becomes this, Anushka, if he's telling the truth, and I always say if because I wasn't there, but the jury heard this, if he's telling the truth and somebody is pointing a gun at his son and he 100 % thought he was going to kill his son because the culture doesn't like him. He doesn't deserve representation. And that becomes the issue as a criminal defense attorney. Do we worry more about the culture or worry about him? You know, and the phrase is injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.

18:33That's a quote from Martin Luther King. And if we do not fight for justice for a Rick Chow, how can we expect justice for anyone else in a civilized society? And so when people say like what your phrase was, I'm not sure he should have taken that case. That's exactly the case I've got to take if I'm going to be a good attorney, not a good African-American attorney, a good blank. If I'm going to be any type of attorney, that's the case you take. You don't take the winning ones where everybody pats you on the back. You take the ones that protect him. So you take that case and everybody hates you.

19:05But as you've seen, our closing argument and our trial was all over the country. Everybody's watching it. And then you watch the Carmelo Anthony trial and people say he needs a good lawyer. You go hire him. So that's what they may have hated you, but they're just like, that's a guy who will fight for justice. We need him to fight for the other.