Victim 3: 'Diddy should be freed'

0:00This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. Pop quiz. What's in your kid's lunchbox? At Whole Foods Market, they've already done the studying. Over 300 food ingredients are banned from their shelves. No hydronated fats in the peanut butter and no high fructose corn syrup in the cookies. And for sandwiches, there are no synthetic nitrates or nitrites in any of their deli meat. So you can pack lunchboxes with peace of mind. Get back to school ready at Whole Foods Market. John Deere is putting in work and putting up highlights. Oh, man, look at those passes. Tillage, planting, harvesting.

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1:05Shaun Kent:BBC Sounds. Music, radio, podcasts. Hello and welcome back to Fame Under Fire from BBC Sounds with me, Anushka Matandadauti. When celebrities, sports stars, politicians, influencers and royalty find themselves in the firing line, whether it's a lawsuit or a scandal, We're here to pre-bunk, debunk, fact check, myth bust, interrogate, and of course, answer your questions. Send them to me on social media, or you can WhatsApp us at 0-330-678-1114. That's 0-330-678-1114. Don't forget to subscribe and turn on your push notifications so you never miss a thing. Coming up, remember Victim 3, who was a no-show at the Sean Diddy Combs trial?

1:48Anoushka:She ain't coming.

1:48Shaun Kent:She is not coming. They're still going to talk about Victim 3. They're going to talk about alleged crimes pertaining to Victim 3. but she is not coming. Well, she has finally spoken out. Also today, first she slept with 1 ,057 men in 24 hours. Then she threatened to tie herself up in a cage and let anyone do what they wanted to her. I'll be talking to sex worker Adrena Winters about why Bonnie Blue does what she does. I personally don't condone the age play stuff but I completely understand how being controversial, or doing these stunts, you know, is going to get traffic, is going to get people talking.

2:28Shaun Kent:And you asked for an explainer on the allegations being faced by this man and his brother. Life is war. It's a war for the female you want. It's a war for the car you want. It's a war for the money you want. It's a war for the status. If you're a man who doesn't view life as war, you're going to lose. So we will bring you all the details about Andrew and Tristan Tate later on. Right now, I'm joined by our resident criminal defense attorney, Sean Kent from South Carolina. Hi, Sean.

2:54Anoushka:Hey, Nushka. How are you doing?

2:55Shaun Kent:I'm doing good. How are you?

2:57Anoushka:Good, good.

2:58Shaun Kent:Okay. So first of all, we're back in familiar territory talking about Diddy. He has been denied. What is this now? The fourth bail request that he's put in? So for anybody who wasn't following the last podcast, he said, I'm going to stay in the Metropolitan Detention Center until October, which is when he's going to be sentenced. He's been convicted of transportation for prostitution on two counts and acquitted of the racketeering and the sex trafficking charges. And he said, I'm going to stay in there until October. Then he asked to leave. Sean, what were some of the reasons that his defense asked for him to get out early?

3:32Anoushka:The reason that they were trying to get him out early is they were saying that the charge that he was found convicted of, which is the prostitution under the man at, Their theory was he is in a unique position because generally that man act involves coercion, fighting, or more importantly, making a profit. And as best that Sean Diddy Combs is a voyeur, if you will, he is not an active participant. He is somebody who is just watching. So what they were basically saying is he is not who this charge was created for. And so this is an extraordinary situation which would demand he be released from incarceration, which was a stretch.

4:15Anoushka:And remember, he is no longer innocent until proven guilty as it demands of the United States. He is now guilty. And once you have been convicted of a felony in the federal system, the presumption is that you can keep your booty in jail. And so what he has to do is overreach that presumption and say that this is an extraordinary circumstance which demands that I be released. And the judge says, look, your own legal defense says that you are a dangerous person who beats up people. And two, you haven't come close to getting over the burden to say that this is an extraordinary situation. And these extraordinary situations are death in the family usually and you need to go to the funeral.

4:59Anoushka:Or, candidly, if you are cooperating against a co-defendant and they need you out, usually this happens in drug situations, and then you can get your time reduced. So the judge says, none of these situations have happened. You're just a guy who got convicted who wants to get out.

5:13Shaun Kent:So Judge Subramaniam has denied him bail for the fourth time now. I feel like we've had this conversation before many times. But one thing we've never been able to say is that we've actually heard from victim three. And you might be thinking, who on earth is that? We did hear about her throughout the trial. Her name is Gina. She's a former romantic partner of Diddy's. Remember those indictments, those superseding indictments? For anyone who doesn't know what that is, it's essentially the lawsuit that the federal government brought against Diddy in the first place and said, there's victim one, there's victim two, then there was a victim three, a four and a five.

5:48Shaun Kent:And then at the trial, victim three just went missing. They didn't turn up. But the prosecution said they were going to continue to prosecute crimes relating to them. and then they never did. Sean, Victim 3 has now spoken out in support of Diddy being released. She said, Our relationship, like many, was not always perfect. We experienced ups and downs and mistakes were made, but he was willing to acknowledge his mistakes and make better decisions in the future. Over the years that followed, he made visible efforts to become a better person and to address the harm he had caused. By the time our relationship ended, he embodied an energy of love, patience and gentleness that was markedly different from his past behavior.

6:25Shaun Kent:To my knowledge, he had not been violent for many years, and he has been committed to being a father first. I'm writing because I do not view Mr. Combs as a danger to me or the community. Before we get into what's actually been written there, is this not just so embarrassing for the prosecution?

6:41Anoushka:These are the reason that everybody is enamored with this case. I've never seen anything quite like it. Like, when this case began, you were a victim who was going to testify to the United States of America. to bat your theory and your story to the point that they went to a grand jury and indicted you based upon information you gave. And now you are giving the middle finger, if you will, to the United States. And one of your own witnesses is saying, yeah, none of this stuff is really good. You need to let them out. It is baffling. If I'm the United States of America, I'm like, you got to be kidding me.

7:14Anoushka:It hurts their credibility so much, even given the fact that they didn't do anything to her. She literally just told the United States. One person, think about that. One person told the United States, no, I'm not going to help you out. We don't care how much power, how much influence, how much money. I'm not going to help you out. And they did nothing to her. They didn't subpoena her. They didn't make her testify. They didn't make her show up. Could this come up at sentencing

7:39Shaun Kent:like from Diddy's defense team and say, well, look, victim three has spoken out in support of him?

7:44Anoushka:Oh, I think they'll absolutely do that. I think if I was a theorem, I'd bring it up and say, this shows you how far reaching the United States went to try to get this individual, that they tried to influence people who wanted nothing to do. And one witness came forward and said, I'm not going to help the United States. The jury agreed with them. This witness agreed with them. This is painful for the prosecution, if you ask me. Don't forget, she also says, I'm not afraid of Diddy. He is not a danger to me. Well, you're not a victim anymore because you didn't go forward to the trial. It's not a question if you're afraid.

8:20Anoushka:It's the general public. This letter would have been more powerful had it come from Cassie or somebody else. From you who didn't testify. Of course you're not afraid. You didn't testify against him. He has no reason. It's a very wild letter.

8:33Shaun Kent:Well, look, you've got to keep an eye on this ditty docket because it's never done. It really isn't. It is the gift that keeps on giving. Sean, thank you so much for your assessment of that. We'll be back with you in a minute. But we're going to talk about Bonnie Blue now. So just hold tight. No problem.

8:50Shaun Kent:Bonnie Blue. It seems you can't go a month without hearing about Bonnie Blue, but if you don't know her, she's a sex worker who has made her name doing stunts. She's the one who claims she slept with 1 ,057 men in just 24 hours. Now, a Channel 4 documentary was made about her. The subject resulted in some advertisers pulling out. Bonnie Blue has also become known for making what has been termed barely legal content, sleeping with people who've just turned 18. After the documentary aired, the lead for the UK's government pornography task force, said she'll try to introduce a ban on this so-called barely legal pornography amid concerns this content could normalise child abuse.

9:27Shaun Kent:And we're going to get to all of that in a moment. We contacted Bonnie Blue as well for a statement and she sent us this, quote, firstly, I'd like to point out that I for one have never done anything illegal. Barely legal is still legal. This moral panic is based on a turn of phrase that first came about from the press and I just ran with it. However, I have listened to the people's concerns and have decided to have a rebrand moving forwards. Joining me now is Adrena Winters. Adrena is a sex worker and content creator who's worked in the industry for 15 years. Hi, Adrena. Hello. Thank you so much for joining me today.

9:59Shaun Kent:I wanted to talk to you because I hear about these stunts, the barely legal, the 1057 men in 24 hours. And then we had this petting zoo where Bonnie said she was going to tie herself up in a cage and men could come in and do whatever they wanted to her in that time. And she was actually kicked off OnlyFans for suggesting she was going to do this. But this is a reaction to something. The landscape has changed in the way that people consume pornography. In your experience, what's been the big shift? Since the big shift, I guess around COVID, when sex workers got more control with OnlyFans, we also had to take on all the other elements of porn as well.

10:40So yeah, the marketing, the strategies, the editing, yeah, everything. So you're talking about this shift to basically subscription platforms. Tell me how that changed your day to day. So before when I worked for the studios, I'd maybe have to do a little bit of networking, make sure that people knew who I was, maybe attend some events or whatever. But aside from that, it would literally just show up on set and that was it. Whereas now my to-do list for this week, I have it here actually. So I have to submit my VAT invoices. I have a PR call after this. I have to plan next week's scenes. I have to plan what reels I'm going to film this week.

11:19I have to plan what YouTube content I'm filming this week. I need to figure out who I'm collaborating with at XBiz and I need to pay my stuff. So yeah, it's quite a change in workload. So this is like running a small business. Yes, very much so. And you talk about paying your staff who are your staff it's very very time consuming to upload content so I hire people to do my uploads for me so that I can focus on the stuff that needs me specifically like recording content or taking calls like this or replying to fans or making custom videos or that kind of stuff

11:57Shaun Kent:because part of what you do is also speaking to people right that's part of the allure of the service is that you can talk to your favorite creator how much of your time does that take up A lot, a lot. They kind of expect you, you know, they're online, they want you online, they want your responses immediately. So yeah, it's very time consuming. Before, if I went and shot for a studio, it would be their responsibility to make sure that traffic then found that scene. Whereas now I have to make sure that I've built up a fan base that will go and find my videos myself. So that means building up a following on social media.

12:33Shaun Kent:so with what bonnie blue is doing then what's the reaction been to these stunts that she does within like the sex worker community within the community i think it's very polarized there are a lot of people that hate what she's doing and uh there are a lot of people i think that respect her me personally if you can make the kind of money she's making then i think go for it personally i don't think it's a bad thing that there's more conversation about sex work in the media and i I think any kind of conversation is good. And personally, I'm OK with it, but I know a lot of people aren't. But when they ask Bonnie, which everybody does, why do you do this?

13:09Shaun Kent:She says she enjoys it. She likes a challenge. This is part of her job. But from what you've just described there, there seems to be a logical, perhaps, business reason for pulling these massive stunts in terms of garnering like a community that will automatically come back to the subscription platform. Yeah, definitely. Yeah, the stunts are definitely, you know, she had a publicist. You don't have a publicist if you're just out doing it just for fun. But why the need to market in this extreme way? Why not use other more traditional forms of marketing? Because it works. I mean, if what she claims to earn is correct, then, you know, it very clearly works for her.

13:46Shaun Kent:And you spoke about this being a positive thing, there being more conversation around sex work and sex workers. Obviously, there is a large group of people who say, well, this industry, whichever way you look at it, is exploitative for the creators and the consumers. How do you respond to that? I would disagree personally, especially since the shift to OnlyFans. Certainly before when I worked for studios and I didn't know who I was working with, I perhaps didn't even have that much say on what was going to happen in the scene or, you know, people would try and push me to do things they didn't want to do.

14:18Whereas now I have way more autonomy. I pick who I collaborate with. I pick what kinds of content I want to shoot. And there's within the creators ourselves, there's a lot more conversation about what we are and aren't OK with. I don't feel like anyone's being exploited personally, certainly not in my circles anyway. There are obviously levels to sex work, but I don't think OnlyFans inherently is exploitative.

14:44Shaun Kent:One of the things that Bonnie's become known for, we touched on that a little bit, is this barely legal content. Some people call it age play. and the argument is more broadly that these stunts they don't hurt anybody because she's consenting and she has full autonomy over what she's doing but what we're hearing now especially from this UK pornography task force is this barely legal content could be a gateway to normalizing child abuse could be a gateway for people accessing other things they've seen this and think oh it's okay this kind of stuff is becoming more part of the culture what do you think and feel about that Yeah, personally, I think it is an issue.

15:21I do think it almost normalizes it, even if the people in the content themselves are consenting and are of illegal age. But, you know, when there's age play or sort of that kind of step sister, brother, mom kind of dynamic, I do think it normalizes stuff and potentially opens up room for abuse. Like if a teenager that was being abused by someone that was taking advantage of their position of power or age, they might think, well, what they're doing is okay because I see it every day.

15:53Shaun Kent:We talk about Bonnie Blue. Yeah, she's in the papers every single day, but she didn't come up with this. Barely legal wasn't invented by Bonnie Blue. It's been around for as long as I can remember. Yeah, I think this is one of the things that frustrates me the most is that she's getting called out for things. that I feel like I'm going to say that men have been actually exploiting for a very long time, making hugely viral content from signing teenage boys to their huge corporate brand. So yeah, she's certainly not doing anything new or novel here. But overall, you don't really mind what she's doing?

16:28Shaun Kent:You think it's a good tactic to getting subscribers? I personally don't condone the age play stuff but I completely understand how being controversial doing these stunts is gonna get traffic is gonna get people talking you know she really leans into that kind of hate and that rage I don't know how she does it she has a very very thick skin to be able to lean into that and like she's deliberately controversial she does it because she knows it gets a reaction and she knows it's gonna sell her videos so I don't have a problem with her doing that you know So just, yeah, the age stuff doesn't sit well with me personally.

17:03Shaun Kent:Gina, thank you so much for talking to me about this today. I really appreciate it. Thank you for having me on. So what do Channel 4 have to say? Well, Channel 4's chief content officer defended the documentary, arguing it is clearly a legitimate subject as she is a huge phenomenon who has transformed the porn industry. He claimed that Blue was sufficiently challenged about her actions in the program. He also claimed that the issue of the young women looking underage was addressed in the film.

17:28Pop quiz. What's in your kid's lunchbox? At Whole Foods Market, they've already done the studying. Over 300 food ingredients are banned from their shelves. No hydronated fats in the peanut butter and no high fructose corn syrup in the cookies. And for sandwiches, there are no synthetic nitrates or nitrites in any of their deli meat. So you can pack lunchboxes with peace of mind. Get back to school ready at Whole Foods Market. John Deere is putting in work and putting up highlights. Oh man, look at those passes. Tillage, planting, harvesting. Three years in and these pre-owned machines are still at the top of their game.

18:08We're talking reliability, performance, and long-term potential. And get this, these veteran machines can pick up the latest precision tech with ease. You know it and fans ready to add John Deere certified pre-owned equipment and more options to their lineup can shop at machinefinder.com. Booyah!

18:28Shaun Kent:now i'm back with criminal defense attorney sean kent i asked you what stories you wanted us to follow and a lot of you came back saying andrew and tristan tate and to be fair it's not straightforward as they are facing allegations that span across three different countries the uk romania and the us they deny them all if you don't know the tates andrew is a self-proclaimed misogynist he got his on UK reality TV, then became an influencer, perhaps the influencer in the world of male podcasters with controversial views. Tristan, he's Andrew's brother and he's on some of those podcasts with him. So here's a rundown of the allegations they are facing.