Fantasy Football - Top 10 TE Rankings + Most Improved Offenses - Podcast for 8/5

11:32Jason Moore:It's worth noting Tess Johnson has gotten a lot of buzz of being like the star of camp. You know, when it comes to. He's the star of groinindex.com right now. It does stink that he.

11:44Andy Holloway:What about me, Jason? Yeah. It's 1999. Oh, there I am. Oh, that's a Ted Hurst reference.

11:52Jason Moore:Yeah, that is a Ted Hurst. Ted Fred Durst.

11:57Mike Wright:Ridiculous. Travis Achan. Come on!

12:01Jason Moore:He'll get an opportunity with Ted's injured.

12:03Mike Wright:Has taken most of the early down reps at training camp. Alvin Kamara getting third down reps. Ruh-roh.

12:09Jason Moore:Yeah, I mean, we say it all the time. Targets are worth more than a rushing attempt for fantasy football. If you look at...

12:17Andy Holloway:Achan's much better at receiving than he is at running. When you look at where...

12:20Mike Wright:But Kamara's much better at receiving than Achan. That is a problem.

12:23Jason Moore:That is a problem. That's what I've said since they signed was originally when it was signed, it was like, oh, Kamara's not going to be on the team. He's clearly not only going to be on the team, he's going to be part of this backfield. And I think right now ADP says that Travis Etienne is like just – he is guaranteed to be a three-down workhorse back. I don't think that's happening.

12:41Andy Holloway:The name. We're still trying to figure it out.

12:45Jason Moore:Etienne, HN, Jr. I don't know. We're trying our best. We're going to find out real soon. We have – you know, it's August, So you got people coming back to football and they might not have any idea, but we petition him. I know we need to talk. We need to talk to that. Brian in line for a bigger slice of the pie in Denver,

13:02Mike Wright:which would be good because Denver, they need something different on the offensive side of the ball. I mean, they were one of the teams like for me, Denver is the team that jumps out as a potential 13 plus touchdown jump. I mean, Denver only had 45 touchdowns last year. It was middle of the pack. You know, You had Waddle. Bryant being the wide receiver three doesn't make me think there's going to be any regular fantasy value. No, but it's great for Bo Nils.

13:28Jason Moore:I mean, if he establishes himself as the wide receiver three in camp, and it's like not just this committee, because right now I'm projecting the third to be a committee. You're going to have Mims involved. You're going to have Troy Franklin involved. You're going to have Pat Bryant maybe leading the three. But if he fully establishes himself as the third, do you think there's a chance as a young player he can usurp Sutton this year and become the wide receiver too for the offense? Is that in the range of realistic outcomes?

13:55Andy Holloway:I would say that's not impossible but this is more of a... But you wouldn't be surprised. I actually would. I would be surprised. What I would not be surprised of is if heading into next year they are like, we're going to move on from Sutton and it's going to be Jalen Waddell and Pat Bryant.

14:16Mike Wright:yeah yeah i think that that whole offense is going to be very very interesting to watch this year with waddles addition with the ensemble of running backs like seems like dobbins is the guy oh yeah but then it seems like harvey might get third downs and jonah coleman's just around

14:32Andy Holloway:the uh gofflin is just around and a last piece of news real quick and this is because this is just This is great. It's fun. Tank Dell of the Houston Texans is practicing.

14:45Mike Wright:With pads, first time in year goal.

14:47Andy Holloway:This is awesome. We haven't seen him in like over a calendar year since the – Oh, yeah. It's been basically two years. Horrific injury two seasons ago. He missed all of last year.

14:58Mike Wright:Was that the – just correct me because it's a long time ago. Yeah. That injury, was that on the block? Yes. That was the goal line block.

15:05Jason Moore:He was in line, goal line block, yeah.

15:06Mike Wright:or was that a previous other injury no no no I don't think it's the same one I thought it was on a catch I thought it was on a catch on the back of the end zone

15:14Andy Holloway:yeah I thought it was a touchdown

15:17Mike Wright:that was so long ago yeah it was on a catch because the year before I had traded for him and he was left in on a blocking down went in and then was knocked out for the rest of the year and that was I forget that that wasn't he's had injury issues throughout his career but when he's been on the field he's been awesome him it's really tough for and stroud was much better with him yeah a guy that's 165 pounds i

15:41Jason Moore:mean we we gave him guff when he was in line block like what is he going to do as a blocker

15:45Mike Wright:he's not really changing things yeah so he yeah he broke his fibula on that block in 2023 missed five games ended his season and then the dislocated kneecap was the full season so

15:58Andy Holloway:there you go but he's back if it man if the nfl and the texans are better if tank tell is playing at a high level.

16:05Mike Wright:Yeah, absolutely. We'll take a quick break and then get into the countdown.

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17:43Jason Moore:Tight ends.

17:45Mike Wright:All right, guys. We are jumping into our tight end rankings countdown. down the top 10 looking at positives negatives of these players obviously the tight end position is well it's a polarizing spot i mean you have these high performers difference makers at a onesie position if you have one of those top guys and somebody else is out there streaming the position it can be a huge advantage on a weekend week out basis problem is identifying the sleeper ones that can perform out of nowhere and making sure that you're draft if you're going to spend high draft capital that guy is an every week start so we'll also look at the beginning schedules for these

18:23Jason Moore:guys a little bit so let's start counting it down number 10 uh number 10 travis kelsey

18:31Mike Wright:going on 37 years old i have him ranked the lowest i've talked about recently i'm pretty out on kelsey he's just not one thing i wanted to do and maybe kyle while we're talking about kelsey briefly final seasons for some of the greats i'm just kind of curious where antonio like antonio gates tony gonzalez uh jason whitten you know jimmy graham like most of those guys for my recollection like i remember jimmy graham being pretty irrelevant at the end uh yeah i mean he had

18:59Jason Moore:the uh he came back and had a bunch of touchdowns right in one of those well he's just saying he had

19:03Andy Holloway:the patella tendon the tendon tear that was a different word yes but um but look it is you

19:11Mike Wright:know whether you believe he can contribute this year or not he'll antonio gates final year final two years he was 37 and 38 years old he caught 30 passes each year they were basically irrelevant years his last good season 36 years old 53 for 548 and 7 we know the trajectory right now on kelsey is it's going down it's just a matter of how low does it go he tends to be out there but if he gives you if he gives you six seven points a game you're not gonna be happy no

19:40Jason Moore:no you won't uh the thing is is right now you've got a tight end who last year had over 100 targets You've got an offense that I think should be better than last year, not necessarily an old-school, great Kansas City offense. But adding Kenneth Walker, I think, really does help the offense in general. If you have someone that's going to catch 80 passes, they're not going to be bad for where he's being drafted. But the upside is gone. You're not having a player who's making a difference at the position. You're just simply trying to say, I think when you draft Kelsey, you're taking the approach of, I punted the position.

20:16Jason Moore:but I don't want to stream, and I'm just going to try to be okay with whatever mediocrity he provides, and maybe that's the wrong, maybe that's the lazy way, and streaming, like the question should be asked here, would it be more valuable, will you score more fantasy points if you're streaming off the waiver wire this season, or if you just play Travis Kelsey every game?

20:38Mike Wright:I think once we establish matchups about halfway through the year, you can stream it better than Kelsey personally. but I think that's up for debate fair I mean it's fairly up for debate I think you're going to find yourself thinking this is where I think you're going to end up you're going to think you can start him every week because of the name because you drafted Travis Kelsey and I think you're going to not know when to pull the trigger on changing that out now your point about the offense being better I think that's well within the realm I mean the Giants scored seven more touchdowns than the Chiefs did last year the Pittsburgh Steelers did you like that offense no vomit Seven more touchdowns than the Kansas City Chiefs last year.

21:15Mike Wright:Patrick Mahomes is coming off a serious injury. The identity of this team is going to be the running game. Rashi Rice is coming off a serious injury, and I'm not so certain that this offense is going to be significantly better. I think their defense is outstanding. They spent all of their draft capital and trades on making that defense top in the league. I'm not sure you're going to have it opened up enough for you to be happy because all of his targets now are close to the line of scrimmage.

21:41Andy Holloway:That's why I'm still okay with Kelsey as the tight end punt. I feel pretty confident that Kelsey will finish in the top ten. That's not always great for your fantasy team or making a difference, but he's going to be the number two target. He will have 100 targets again if he plays in all 17 games, and he'll give you roughly nine points a week. You think he's the number two target?

22:09Mike Wright:because I think that they're going to have to make a transition at some point in time.

22:13Jason Moore:But to who? Yeah, I mean, whether a Cyrus Allen or a Xavier Worthy can step up, I don't know.

22:19Mike Wright:I just think tight end snaps may come down. I think you're going to manage him a little bit. It's possible.

22:23Jason Moore:Yeah, I will say that older players, you know, we've seen this with Keenan Allen recently, like sometimes they get off to a decent start to the year. Sure, sure. The first month of the schedule is, you know, they're favored in all four games. First week's a little hard at home against Denver, but then Indianapolis, Miami, Las Vegas, those are great matchups. And then they go on their bye week. So maybe you're right. The second half of the year you stream, you grab Kelsey, play him for a month, and then start knowing what the matchups are.

22:49Mike Wright:Shout out to Tony Gonzalez, who at 37 years old had 121 targets, 83 for 859 and 8.

22:54Jason Moore:I think Kelsey, that seems right in the range. Yeah, it's possible. That's the upper range. Number nine.

23:02Mike Wright:It's Kyle Pitts coming in at our consensus number nine. Jason and I have him at eight. This is the man of what do you possibly do with this?

23:11Andy Holloway:What do you do with Kyle Pitts?

23:13Mike Wright:I mean, Kyle Pitts is going to be on the field for 90 % of snaps. Kyle Pitts is the second best pass catcher on the team. And Kyle Pitts is 25 years old. I don't know where the confidence is in Tua, but I think it's higher than Pennix. I don't know if it's higher than where you thought Cousins was last year.

23:39Jason Moore:It's probably pretty neutral, maybe a little lower.

23:43Mike Wright:I find myself in a tough spot like all of us forever, and we will forever be, I think, with Kyle Pitts here. I mean, he was a monster over the final six weeks. It's been brought up ad nauseum that Drake London wasn't there.

23:58Jason Moore:Yeah, I mean, obviously you do have that built-in upside.

24:00Mike Wright:They said he looks like he's running better than he's ever run before.

24:03Jason Moore:I've seen that a lot. This offseason, he looks athletically like kind of the player they drafted. It has been a problem. It absolutely has.

24:11Andy Holloway:Like for years, when you're watching Kyle Pitts, where the rookie year, the touchdowns were disappointing, but to have over 1 ,000 yards as a rookie at the tight end position, that's very impressive. And then kind of since then, we've been watching him saying, this doesn't look like the same player. So maybe he just had long injuries that just were, they wouldn't clear up. Maybe they're cleared up, but he is.

24:40Jason Moore:They paid him a lot. I'm not drafting him. I'm not either. But I think it's worth noting that he does have built-in upside of should Drake London get injured. We saw him truly dominate when he became the de facto one. So we know he can do it. And so there is that kind of built in. That's not built in with everyone else. Like right after him is going Sam Laporta. If Jameson Williams goes down, we've seen the splits. Laporta is the same with and without Jameson Williams. However, the guys around him, like Laporta, better offense, more expected touchdowns. Tucker Kraft, you know, when we've seen him.

25:20Jason Moore:Much higher upside. Much higher upside. Harold Fannin. I'm going to say it out loud.

25:23Mike Wright:I'm in on Kyle Pitts. Yeah? I'm in on Kyle Pitts. they just paid him a ton of money to stick around no I don't need the camera in fact hold on put the camera on Jason I'm in on Kyle Pitts no that's me I'm saying it I just I don't want the camera I mean Stefanski

25:47Andy Holloway:has given us success at the tight end position

25:51Mike Wright:no I'm in I'm gonna wipe the slate clean each and every year and I'm looking at the contract, the roster, the offense. Kyle Pitts is going to be a focal point. Year six breakout? It's happened before at the tight end position. I don't think that's the quote I'd use.

26:07Jason Moore:Wait, is this year six? Yeah. Wow. Crazy. Okay, so let me ask you this, because the next tight end we're talking about here is Sam Laporta.

26:16Andy Holloway:Wait for the number eight. I was putting it on a tee, Mike. You can't give the name. No, wait.

26:21Jason Moore:You don't normally reveal before the number, but it's fine. they're going right next to each other in drafts so right now the the what i'm seeing 704 706 they're they're basically you're picking one of these two players so you are picking kyle pitts yes because you are in uncommon so you will take him over laporta okay i just wanted that

26:41Mike Wright:established yeah i will i i think that kyle pitts is going to be a focal point of the offense on a I'm not proud of it. I wouldn't tell anybody else.

26:54Jason Moore:We have him ranked identical. We both have him as our tight end eight. Obviously, last year, he was the tight end two. That's a little bit.

27:01Mike Wright:Here's a real question for you.

27:03Jason Moore:Okay.

27:03Mike Wright:If you think, I mean, are you just drafting Kraft and Kittle automatically, assuming they'll be fine, ahead of Kyle Pitts?

27:11Jason Moore:I am not. I believe Mike is. I would, yes.

27:13Mike Wright:So, you know, are you drafting Fannin automatically ahead of Pitts? Probably, right?

27:18Jason Moore:Yes. If the cost was the same, I would much rather have Fannin.

27:22Mike Wright:All right, Sam Laporta is who we're talking about now. Nobody knows this man better than Jason Moore. He's been on his team in a bunch of mocks in a row. I got him at nine, Mike at eight, Jason at seven. I mean, Sam Laporta, he's a great tight end. He's going to be out there every snap for the most part. The team has an incredible schedule. They're favored in 14 of the first 15 games. They also have a ton of weapons. Jameer Gibbs, Alman Ross St. Brown, Jamison Williams. There will be, I think, games where you're going to end up with the short end of the stick. He can make big plays. He has a chance at double-digit touchdowns.

28:00But we have seen, you know, I mean, Laporta's a pretty safe pick, I think.

28:05Jason Moore:Yeah, I mean, that's what it is. I don't see Laporta like he can't differentiate himself from the other target monsters at the position. He's never going to have 140 targets the way that a McBride or Bowers or some of these second-year tight ends might get to. But the touchdown upside is clearly there. He's already had double-digit touchdowns in his career as a rookie. He's on a team that is expected to score a ton of points. And I think this is just a player where you're going to have consistency. When he doesn't score a touchdown, it's not like he just disappears. But you're going to have a lot of touchdowns.

28:41Jason Moore:that if you end up with, let's say, nine touchdowns this season, very reasonable for him, that means there's – I mean, when your tight end scores a touchdown – Every other game at least. That week you have a good chance of winning. And so I would rather have a guy who can get in the end zone. I think Laporta has way more touchdown opportunities than Pitts. Pitts might have more targets, but I'll take the touchdowns at the tight end position personally.

29:07Andy Holloway:Last year in his nine games, you know, Laporta had four of them were over 10 points. It like. Yeah, I would rather I would rather hitch my wagon to Laporta.

29:20Mike Wright:All right.

29:22Andy Holloway:Number seven.

29:23Mike Wright:Tucker Kraft comes in at number seven. I got him at five. So that's. Oh, I thought this was only Mike's dude. No, I have him ranked at five. All right. Team Tucker. which means he is above Fannin in my rankings and below Bowers, McBride, Loveland, and Warren right now. I do think he'll be there from week one. I think that – look, I think their offense is interesting top to bottom. I think you have players that we're excited about, Christian Watson, Jaden Reed getting some talk about some two-wide receiver sets. All the feedback, I know we're bitter towards Matthew Golden, but all the camp talk has been very positive around Matthew Golden.

30:04Mike Wright:it's an interesting offense but Kraft was kind of what made it go last year and I do think he's going to be back and healthy he was the tight end 2 in fantasy points per game so I don't think ranking him at 5 is insane and this is not a one hit wonder either you have the breakout from last season that was a you know it was a handful of games where he was upper echelon top tier but you go back a season this was the tight end 9 with 8.1 points per game the year before they already knew what they had in Tucker craft and just built him into the offense a little bit more he's a complete bully and man-to-man coverage um you know tore the ACL that's the whole storyline but I think I think he's going to be good they're favored in their first six games of the year it's a nice slate for him to come out and get acclimated I'm pretty in on Tucker craft consensus wise we have him at seven Jason you are the most bearish yeah so to speak to that

31:02Jason Moore:it's really injury and ADP. So he's coming off of an injury where the expectation early in the offseason was he'll start the season on the pup. Then as time went on, it got more and more positive. We've seen him at camp now. He's looking great. If he's running straight, he looks amazing. He's running straight.

31:19Mike Wright:He's looking great.

31:20Jason Moore:He should be there for week one. And Tucker Kraft? Straight is enough.

31:26Andy Holloway:That's all I need, man. Pull people over. Hey, in line, run a seam route. In line, feeling fine.

31:32Jason Moore:Well, the nice thing is, even with that, you have a lot of plays that the Packers set up, like play action, where they kind of leak craft out. You don't have to be cutting these amazing routes to catch the little dump off in the flat and then just go mow guys down. It's almost unfair to talk about his points per game because his last game, he got injured and wasn't really involved. He was 14 points per game in the full games that he started on pace for 1 ,139 yards. So I don't blame either of you guys for just taking the shot, the swing of saying, if he is healthy, he was truly dominating. However, for me, he's going right next to Harold Fannin.

32:17Jason Moore:If I wanted to take a tight end, he's healthy and looked great and scored more fantasy points last year. But he's also going next to other guys at other positions. which is like Jordan Tyson. Than the guy who played in eight games. Availability is the best ability. Oh my gosh. But Jordan Tyson is right next to him. Okay. Whatever. People do not like that. Do you think. He scored more than Tank Dell too. Do you think if Tucker Craft plays 17 games, that he definitely scores more points than Harold Fannin?

32:54Andy Holloway:if Tucker Craft plays a full season yes he will score more points than Harold Fannin yeah the

33:01Mike Wright:difference in that offense is just going to be pretty large I mean Fannin's going to be great but you did add a couple more weapons in that offense and our quarterback uh you know that's the differential to me the quarterbacks the offensive system I still love Fannin that's why he comes in at number six Harold fan in 22 years young and the tight end five last year in Cleveland with shared time with the joke who with no wide receivers with no quarterback um this is only one of two rookie tight ends to go 70 for 706 so he is an electric player Harold Fannin is awesome and if they were smart which it seems like Monken's gonna do oh yeah he's going to use fan in a ton so if you want to hedge against injury these guys are back to back in my rankings i don't blame you at all if you have a you know this is where um this is where i think for you where you have like a tier of superstars right so you've got mcbride bowers you've got warren and loveland yes and that's your core that is my core for and i can kind of see that where it's like then you can make some really different decisions with like fanning and craft kittle if he's healthy to start the year.

34:10Mike Wright:You can throw Laporta or Pitts into that group. It becomes more muddy. It becomes more plant your flag on the offense that you like a little bit. You know, you talked about a reason to like Laporta over Pitts is they're going to score a lot more touchdowns in Detroit than they will in Atlanta. You can make that. That's part of the craft call over Fannin, I think, is that I think Green Bay is going to be a great offense on a great team. I think Cleveland is going to be better than people expect, but offensively not a top 20 team.

34:37Jason Moore:None of us picked them to be the team to score 13 more touchdowns this year. I thought about it, though. I did think about it. I did. They improved their offensive line in the draft. They've got an offensive-minded head coach now. Some good rookie wide receivers. Yeah, I think that they could be a surprisingly much better offense. To me, Fannin is the one player I am very fearful of getting wrong because I'm pretty much out on sixth-round tight ends. And that's what it is for me. because I don't have Kraft and Fannin in the tier of the elites. I don't think they are. Do I think they're better than the other tight ends I'm going to get later?

35:13Jason Moore:Absolutely. But I think it's a point a game. I think it's irrelevant for winning and losing in fantasy. This was one of my 10 things to remember is that the difference between the tight end two last year and the tight end 12 was pretty meaningless last year. And so if you're not one of the elites, I would rather have a fifth round, a sixth round, a seventh round pick of the running backs and wide receivers there. Take the shot of those guys. But Fannin, what he did in college was so productive. And then to come in rookie year and be that productive is like, oh, maybe he is just that dude. But on the offense.

35:47Mike Wright:Can he finish top three?

35:48Jason Moore:No.

35:50Andy Holloway:No, I don't think so. No, and I'm – the argument against Fannin is just the Cleveland Browns. I'm with you guys. He is an awesome player. but looking at the the competition for Harold Fannin last year was Jerry Judy I know he had to you know he had to overtake David Njoku but it's like Judy had a 20 percent target share the next highest wide receiver target share would have been Cedric Tillman or I'm sorry Isaiah Bond at eight percent and then Tillman Njoku's at nine percent so it's like these a first round wide receiver a second round wide receiver let me give you the counter argument there the counter argument

36:33Mike Wright:is the cardinals okay the cardinals have michael wilson marvin harrison jr as part of that offense but trey mcbride is the bona fide number one guaranteed target in that offense yes i wonder if because when i see fan and the part i'm worried about getting wrong is that this guy could lead the league in receptions at tight end that's my worry is not from a quantity i mean he had 107 targets last year as a rookie that's the part i'm worried about getting wrong is that he is the ppr

36:59Jason Moore:winner of the year it's actually better than the 107 targets if you look at when shadour took over in week 12 and you take out the injury game at the very end of the season he was on pace for 142

37:09Mike Wright:targets with shadour so and i and mcbride like those guys don't take away from mcbride leading the league in receptions at tight end yeah so rookies are not gonna i'm saying it's maybe

37:18Andy Holloway:these are but these are unknowns where it's like marv and michael wilson there there's some unknown about them of where they could end up this year but we have no idea how uh concepcion and boston are going to factor into taking away from the target if those is there any chance he has fewer

37:36Mike Wright:than 100 targets on this offense though i don't think so i don't think so okay so at least that's built in as a floor for harold fan and i think yeah i mean i love harold fan and when i say i'm

37:45Jason Moore:not drafting him it's really just draft price if he was in the ninth round and i'm giving up a mediocre sixth i believe right now okay yeah that that'll be a tough decision i think for

37:56Mike Wright:where people want to tier him mentally because of the brown situation and um i'm curious i'm gonna have kyle pull some data on top three tight ends over the last decade or so and how many of them are on sub 500 teams because i'm very curious about that so i'll give you that information

38:14Andy Holloway:shortly number five i can tell you last year he was on a sub 500 team in trey mcbride

38:23Mike Wright:you're talking about the number one time yeah yeah yep george kittle come on george comes in at five we all got him right there mike at five we're at six this one's been evolving it's going to continue to evolve over the course of this month major injury not a spring chicken george kid almost 33 years old also not as old as travis kelsey by any stretch and um you know the touchdowns with brock purdy have been there that was a early career situation with kiddo where you're like he's going to catch a bunch of passes he can make a big play but he's probably going to end up with five or six touchdowns he's got higher upside now in this offense and for goodness sakes they don't have any wide receivers that are healthy.

39:05Andy Holloway:No, George Kittle is the entire of the bet for George Kittle is health. There is no doubts of how dominant George Kittle can be for the NFL, for fantasy football. His rookie year wasn't great. 5.7 points per game, but since then, his lowest is 10.7 that's huge like he's he's a double digit point machine at the tight end position and i and things like the ceiling that the connection he has with brock purdy it raises the stakes even more in in my opinion so everything is just do you think george could be healthy we have him at five which is way above market and like my bet is a season-long bet it i think it starts slower for George Kittle, but over the course of the season, I think he returns to form and becomes the true dominator that we have seen every year, and it's tight end 10.

40:09Andy Holloway:So if you want to protect yourself, if you want to take George Kittle and then Dallas Goddard or one of the likely or even Travis Kelsey, because Kelsey will give you a floor, and that's a draft strategy that is plausible. taking Kittle in the ninth or tenth round and then coming back and taking Travis Kelsey it's I think it's an interesting strategy for this year the splits with Brock Purdy over four

40:36Mike Wright:years if you spread them out over a season it would be 81 catches on 106 targets for 1145 yards and 11 touchdowns that has been the you know that's much better than his splits with a different quarterback in San Francisco now Mike you did read the tea leaves on CMC's health last year would you mind letting us know the exact situation for George?

40:59Jason Moore:I actually would mind. I thought we were going to get the answer. I am much more worried about the injury. My ranking says how I believe. Your ranking says you believe he's going to be there for 17 pretty darn healthy games. I do think second half of the year he might be good. He's a human. While he's unbelievable, he's 33 years. He's a dog. Dog. He's 33 years old. He's a man. He's not a human. He's a man. Old for a football player coming off of a very difficult injury. And I know it was a better version. Like, you know, we keep hearing, like, oh, it's the Achilles tore at the right spot. It's like, well, there's no good spot for the Achilles to tear.

41:43Jason Moore:There's worse spots. There are worse spots. But he still tore his Achilles and is coming back. The last video that I saw of him, he's out on the sideline. He's working, but he looks to me like he's a ways away. So I'm a little bit more skeptical that you will like holding on to him for the first half of the year.

42:00Mike Wright:All right, we'll take a break and come back with our top four and some sleeper picks.

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44:02Mike Wright:All right, I do have that information for you before we move on to our top four, which we'll probably get through them pretty quick. you guys know the names top three tight ends over the last five years six of 15 were sub 500 teams so it does lower your odds certainly you want to be around the end zone right um just i was curious about that you know bowers mcbride twice some of that's tough because like travis kelsey

44:27Jason Moore:is every year you know pretty much over the last decade been in the top three and he's always going to be on a winning team prior to this year um i think it's like the you're either a dominant

44:41Andy Holloway:player at the tight end position which there's very few of those if you're talking uh guys who are getting it done in the passing game the guys who can rise are that's the offense is going to carry them yep makes sense number four tyler warren comes in at number four uh jason just

44:59Mike Wright:talked extensively about Tyler Warren on our fire and ice episode. But the TLDR of that is great. It was a great rookie season when Daniel Jones was healthy. Focal point of the offense, you lose Michael Pittman, beneficiary of those low, you know, the intermediate targets that Pittman was great at. And, you know, Alec Pierce, Josh Downs on the outside, you know, Downs is unproven out there. They want to try him out, give him more opportunities. Pierce got paid all that money, but he's been a deep threat most of his career. Warren's going to soak up the middle of the field. Benefit from Jonathan Taylor pulling up defenses.

45:33Mike Wright:So I think we're all very comfortable with Tyler Warren. Jason's got him at three. Mike and I at four. That's the only difference. Jason has him ahead of Loveland, and we have him behind, meaning number three.

45:46Jason Moore:Number three. Mr.

45:47Andy Holloway:Loveland. Mr. Loveland.

45:49Mike Wright:It is Mr. Loveland. 22 years old. Mike and I have him at three. Jason at four. Finished 11 last year. came on like gangbusters at the end of the season uh a chess piece for ben johnson in line 56 percent of the time but then in the slot 22 percent of the time out wide completely 18 percent of the time you know the debates around burden or doing say how valuable are they we know loveland is going

46:16Jason Moore:to be a focal point yeah but the the quote that we have gotten recently and i i don't i don't have this well it's from an espn article okay from espn was that loveland is the son of the bears solar system of receivers and that feels like kind of how we anticipate this going um we we have the fight of i love rome you love burden and i i've i've certainly warmed more and more on burden i still don't like his draft price but um that's all right we universally come to the same agreement that is the best weapon on this team, and I think I personally have it now as the target leader for this team, is Colson Loveland.

46:57Jason Moore:The issue is that there are other really good targets. So if Caleb is throwing for sub-4 ,000 yards and you have three really good options, is the consistency going to be there for Loveland if, oh, Luther Burden went off for these four games and Rome went off for these three games or whatever, will we be disappointed in the price of Loveland because of those weapons? That's my only concern because I think the tape showed and the playoffs showed that he can be a dominant top end force.

47:33Mike Wright:Yeah, I think the interesting thing is looking at the final three weeks of the year in the playoffs when he was really a part of the offense, seeing that playoff target share at 28 % in an offense that had DJ Moore at 17 % at the time, I feel like there'll be plenty of weekly upside combined with, I think, a good floor for Colston Love, and that's why I have him ahead of Warren. I just like that offensive system better. But both are good.

47:58Jason Moore:I would expect the Bears to outscore the Colts. I mean, when we were preparing for the show and going through our UDK stats, and we were looking because free rankings kind of disagreed with the UDK rankings because one is done by stat projections one is just done by linear rank and we took a look at these two guys loveland and warren i don't even know if you know this andy because it was mike and i looking at it i probably don't then we were almost identical i mean the points between loveland and warren for all three of us are like flip a coin as far as total fantasy value i do think it's a one round difference yeah i mean that's why i like warren more it's cheaper and i think his floor might be higher but when we're trying to win his championship the ceiling is higher on Loveland.

48:45Jason Moore:100%. If both of these guys go off this year, Loveland

48:49Andy Holloway:will be the winner. I think about it the exact same way. I think Warren is probably a safer pick. This is going to be a top five tight end. It's just if Loveland hits the way that all the chatter is from training camp and the offseason he was the number 10 overall pick you know we have the the anecdotes of phones were ringing off the hook during the nfl draft colston lovelin gets drafted by the bears which was a little bit of a surprise per the mock drafters and then all of a sudden the phone stopped ringing because people were trying to move up to go get lovelin he is i think he will be the the focal part of the bears offense and

49:32Mike Wright:the ceiling is he's a more athletically gifted player than warren is like the and warren's very good. It's just Loveland is just much more of a...

49:41Jason Moore:If you want a break away touchdown, that's not going to be Warren. Warren's going to break some tackles and get you 20 yards on a cool catch. Loveland's going to take it to the house.

49:50Andy Holloway:The chance of Loveland usurping Brock Bowers as the number one tight end at the end of this season, to me, is much higher than Warren did.

49:58Mike Wright:Yeah, I think that's a good way to put it.

50:00Andy Holloway:Number two. Nope, no more. Let's go to the next player.

50:05Mike Wright:Trey McBride.

50:07Jason Moore:I can talk Loveland all day I was just going to bring up the negative quote of the fact that he's been seen as a dynamic pass catcher but he is rapidly improving as a blocker is that scary for fantasy? No, because you know who's a great blocker?

50:23Andy Holloway:George Kittle I think there is some value to we love our tight ends that aren't the Jimmy Grahams they don't actually play the tight end position they play wide receiver but there is definitely value of the I'm in line, I'm looking like I'm going to block, but I'm just a chip and then I leak out for the play action and then hit a big play. Number two. You sound like Strong Pat. Check it out to emails.

50:50Mike Wright:Oh. Is that Homestuck? Trey McBride comes in at number two. Is that disrespectful? This was the first tight end in history to have 100 plus catches in back-to-back seasons. He has Jacoby Brissett fresh off of that sweet 15 million dollar check they're writing him completely uh dominant last year with Brissett number one overall fantasy tight end and yet he

51:14Jason Moore:comes in at two at our consensus rankings that is not an insult to Trey McBride that is simply a belief in Brock Bowers Trey McBride they're the only negative thing you could possibly say about his outlook is that it is somewhat probable that during the fantasy playoffs he has a third round rookie quarterback slinging him the ball that's the only fear I have I mean Trey McBride is the leader of this offense you know the the questions of will is Marv good did the Michael Wilson all that's irrelevant those guys are so far behind in the pecking order of McBride the offense runs through him um he will be awesome again much better play caller you know you talk

51:56Mike Wright:about the yeah yeah you know the situation for Arizona um I would trust LaFleur to do more with

52:02Jason Moore:his best player Arizona had a ton of yards last year because the defense was bad and the defense is just as bad this year but they didn't score a lot of points when you when you look at like total team scoring when we were you know looking at who's going to take that jump they have room to really grow and you add love in the backfield. Yeah. Is that a positive or a negative? I think it's a positive. I think having a better offense is always just good.

52:31Andy Holloway:They had nothing at the running back position last year. That's why their pass rate was so extremely high and they were running so many plays. We brought up the stat earlier of he essentially ran multiple games worth more of snaps. Kyle, correct me if I'm wrong. I think the most snaps or most routes run for a tight end ever in the history of the NFL is just those things... Jacoby Brissett was on pace

53:05Jason Moore:for 685 passing attempts, which is an outrageous number that has to come down. Number one.

53:12Mike Wright:It is Brock Bowers coming in at number one, the most talented tight end up there in football with the fact that he's the clear number one target with Clint Kubiak who called him a football robot from heaven.

53:26Andy Holloway:What's better? Being the son of the solar system. Heaven is much better. Or a football

53:33Jason Moore:but you're a robot. But you're from heaven. You know heaven is above the sun and the stars. I mean it's clearly Brock Bowers is better here.

53:44Mike Wright:You want to know something? Remember we were having the debate about Gandalf versus Dumbledore. I talked to somebody with knowledge of the Lord of the Rings universe. Gandalf is part angel. I am unaware of this. This is what they told me. If I'm quoting it, they said, Get Colbert on the phone. You know that book? Talks about that. I think he's... It was spitballers. We were talking about this on spitballers. But when you said heaven, it reminded me of... I wanted to let you guys know oh, I'd done some research. Yeah, well, that's important. By talking to a stranger, we appreciate that.

54:19Jason Moore:You know, we're looking at these top four elite tight ends. And, you know, my argument for Warren is that Downs and Alec Pierce are not as good as the weapons there. You know, all of these other three guys have at least capable receivers on the roster who might break out. Marv might break out. Rome might break out. Burden might break out. Alec Pierce might break out. there ain't none here brother how no one on the raiders they gave naylor a bunch of money

54:49Mike Wright:he has the same risk that mcbride has though that you mentioned well it's which is that it's not a third round no it's not a third round first overall pick it's the first overall pick but the same risk of quarterback change at the back half of the year you would assume it will happen

55:03Jason Moore:it's very rare in this day and age for the number one overall pick to not get in but that is enough of a difference to me. Carson Beck versus Mendoza to where, you know, and, you know, Clint Kubiak, he was, LaFleur might be a good, you know, they're both offensive minded head coaches, but Kubiak was the prize of this offseason.

55:23Mike Wright:What's crazy is that this, you know, may seem really obvious to be like, okay, one, two is McBride and Bowers in some order. The truth is you're going to put them in the order that you believe, but they're going directly back to back in drafts. So this is a, like you do have to just pull the trigger on one like if you're if you're going to be there at 205 or 203 or whatever wherever you're at you're sacrificing obviously a very high quality wide receiver running back and you have to make the call here and you don't want to get it wrong because you're investing so much into a fantasy tight end so is it is it possible to get this

55:58Jason Moore:pick wrong really no i mean injury will get it wrong with oh you're saying between the two i

56:03Mike Wright:Yeah, I mean, can you really get that wrong?

56:05Jason Moore:So I think you could get it wrong where you will have regrets, and the only way that you get that wrong outside of injury on the regret front is that what Bowers does is truly break the position. I think that is in the range of outcomes. Like McBride did last year. That's in the range of outcomes to me. That's the funny part. It's like he did it. What did McBride score last year on – what was his per average? 15. He was unbelievable.

56:33Mike Wright:He was like four or five points better than the tight end, too.

56:37Andy Holloway:Yeah.

56:37Mike Wright:So that's the part where it's hard for me to be like, you know, the Raiders were what, dead last in the NFL in touchdown scored? Correct. And so now you're bringing in Kirk Cousins? I don't – that's the part where I have more confidence in the connection between – like I'm going to switch these two. You're moving. All right. I'm sure they're basically, yeah, they're three points apart in my rankings. But out of respect for that connection already built, I'm going to make that tweak.

57:10Jason Moore:Okay. I will say right now McBride is going ahead in ADP by exactly one pick. Yeah. I mean, that's what Andy's doing right here. He's saying if I'm on the clock, I'm taking McBride.

57:24Mike Wright:I'm going to take McBride. And look, at the end of the year, I think the Cardinals score more touchdowns than the Raiders do. so i mean i think that's gonna and now repeating 11 touchdowns is it hard yeah is he gonna do it probably he'll probably do it bowers might do it too these guys gonna be it's gonna be a narrow very close situation but um it's it's tough i know you are the most like into brock bowers you've ever been you know in terms of like looking at him as the bona fide number one overall

57:53Jason Moore:at the position yeah I mean it's tough they're both great players I don't I don't think that there's um a bad pick here and I will say that my strategy receiver four last year by the way my strategy this year is get an elite tight end and that means only these four and perhaps even if you want to take the strategy to just like we know Bowers and McBride are going to be dominant Warren and Loveland are projections you're hoping now they're a little cheaper but they still cost a lot in drafts if you wanted to take the strategy of it's just bowers and mcbride or else punt like i'm i'm fine with that as well bowers and mcbride are both isn't this the around josh allen

58:33Mike Wright:category i mean could yeah won't this be your decision between if you're going to go onesie you go josh allen or you go bowers mcbride probably how do you view that in terms of

58:41Andy Holloway:advantage for your team mike i i lean the tight end spot of of getting one of those two guys it's not a lack of confidence in Josh Allen it's just a you know finding quarterback production is you've got guys you like later it's just easier and and more predictable on a week-to-week basis than you streaming a quarterback um if depending on your league and how they handle the waiver wire but in terms of just the process of identifying the quarterback that should have a good week compared to the tight end it's it's easier on the quarterback yeah it's I mean we started this

59:21Jason Moore:episode talking about Travis Kelsey. He's our 10th ranked tight end. And so if you're going to take one late and one early, the difference between Travis Kelsey is like the tight end 10 versus Trevor Lawrence right now ADP wise is the quarterback 10. It's like is Travis Kelsey, does Travis Kelsey have a chance to be another like absolute difference maker at the position? Probably not. Does Trevor Lawrence? Sure. Probably. Does Dak? Does Jackson Dart? Those guys, those are all those guys.

59:48Mike Wright:Tyler Shuck, Bone Nix. Sleeper tight end you're interested in because this is you know we have our top 10 by consensus but throwing out a sleeper tight end for me it's goddard i've brought him up a couple times um whenever aj brown or devante smith has missed time he's been a huge beneficiary on the offense aj brown is gone he's gonna miss some time for the kai lemon has had two hamstring injuries we don't right now it looks like don tavian wicks is the second man up which to me makes dallas goddard the wide receiver too

1:00:16Jason Moore:Eli Stowers has done nothing. He's been buried on the depth chart so far in camp. So I like that. We're going to need him to get it together. I agree. Mine is the guy I took in our last mock draft, Dalton Kincaid. The team picked up his fifth-year option, who's a first-round pick. He was literally the best in the entire league at tight end at yards per route run. The problem was he wasn't healthy. He only ran 15 rounds per game. How's he doing right now? Very healthy. There was a miniature scare where it was like, oh, he went down. And so he was interviewed afterwards about what happened. I was like, was this the knee again?

1:00:53Jason Moore:He was like, no. He got it in the family jewels, as he said. Shout out. Yeah. Not enough usage of family jewels. I feel like I haven't heard that since early Simpsons. But currently very healthy. And obviously, having Josh Allen as your quarterback doesn't hurt. And I'm going as I like to do.

1:01:12Andy Holloway:The senator? With the tight end position. Oh, Jason. Guys, if Benson happens, we're the show. We're going to close it down. Don't worry about that. Good news, Foot Clan.

1:01:23Jason Moore:We ain't going nowhere.

1:01:25Andy Holloway:Just saying. No, I'm going with, you know, we've talked about you need a tight end who can become the number two or the number one option. The Miami Dolphins, it's gross down there. Andy is a big believer in Malik Willis. I'm more on your side of I think that he is more likely to be a good quarterback than not. Who's the number one option there? I guess it's Malik Washington right now just de facto, but Greg Dulcich is there. The nerd stats, the yards per route run, pretty good. 2.38, not a huge sample size for him. He's had his moments as an NFL tight end. He's had moments, and he has the athletic profile that we want.

1:02:10Andy Holloway:When you're just taking a random shot at the tight end position, athleticism matters. This isn't like guys at running back and wide receiver, they can be slower. It can happen. But an athletic tight end, they are more likely to break through. He could end up as the number one target for this offense. That doesn't mean I'm saying top five or anything, but it's a player who is right now undrafted that I think he could be a sneaky top 12 guy at the end of the year. There's always nasty tight ends that sneak in there.

1:02:44Mike Wright:Yeah, and this is also something where, look, if you might not get drafted, you probably won't get drafted in your league, but when you're looking at what happens and you get a sign in week one or two. Yeah, week one, eight targets show up. Right. And even if he doesn't catch them all or doesn't get in the end zone, look for – I love looking for tight ends through the target lens when you're looking at the free agency. See who's getting action.

1:03:06Jason Moore:Fannin was there last year on the waiver wire. this year. I mean, Isaiah likely might be that. Chig might be that. Or Sadiq or somebody. Yeah, Sadiq. There's a lot of options.

1:03:16Mike Wright:Alright, that'll do it for today's episode. Mock draft episode tomorrow, and then we'll resume rankings episodes as well. Footclanggiveaway.com for that signed B. John Robinson jersey if you want to check that out in the Ultimate Draft Kit is. UltimateDraftKid.com Thank you for tuning in, Footclang. Thank you for coming along for the ride. It's going to be a fun August because Carson Beck is starting tomorrow, guys. Oh, boy. Here we go. Good, bud.

1:03:45Jason Moore:Thank you for listening to another episode of the Fantasy Footballers podcast. Join our fantasy football community on jointhefoot.com and follow us on Twitter at the FFBallers.

1:04:02Mike Wright:CBS Sunday, September 13th. The new season of 60 Minutes begins. Okay, let's go. Every Every second, a story unfolds. This is one of the great mysteries of human nature. Every minute, a new question. You were buying access to the president. Every week, a deeper understanding. When we take the field, the expectations are to win. It's time. We're preparing to go out on this race. For the new season. It was gunfight. All the way in, all the way out. 60 Minutes, CBS Sunday, September 13th, and streaming on Paramount+.

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