261: The Big Mistake She Made on a $10K Project (and How She’s Fixing It ) (Part 2)

0:00We're back for part two of my episode with Jacqueline Schumann following up on her$10 ,000 project, but our conversation today is about how things don't always go smoothly. Jacqueline shares the one decision she regrets most and we unpack the lessons she's learning around boundaries, overgiving, and setting clear terms from the start. Whether you're early in your freelance business or landing big wins for yourself, this episode is a must listen for protecting your time, energy, and value. For full context, make sure you listen to part one. Link is in the show notes. Let's get to it. It's okay.

0:28Okay, talk to us. It's so embarrassing. You're leaving everybody is like dying in here.

0:37So this big rookie mistake was that I covered the cost of travel for this trip. Airfare and hotel. Yeah, and food. Everything. Everything. It was a lot of Ubers. um so on a personal level my family and I had just bought um some annual flight passes that the frontier airline sells and you pay one sum for cheap airfare for the whole year and we had researched it we were looking at the fine print um I joke that frontier is the Dollar Tree of the sky. Oh, it's so bad. But it's so cheap. It's so cheap. So you've got to be willing to just have the worst service. Yes. And they nickel and dime you for everything.

1:36I have flown it tons of times. Yeah. Yeah. It's down there with like Ryanair Spirit Airlines. airlines. I've also flown Spirit. Yeah, Spirit. It's the bottom of the barrel. Yeah. Airlines, everything, the website, the customer service, the app. It's painful. It's, yeah, it's, it's painful. So you have to just be okay with that and just think of it as like, it's going to take me from A to B and as long as it does that safely then okay and so you pay like one cent for the flight and then you have to pay for taxes and fees which for domestic flights it's anywhere from eight bucks to like 20 or 25 bucks so and of course the other catch is you can only book 24 hours in advance.

2:33Oh, you have to book last minute. You have to book last minute. Oh, wow. Yeah. Okay. That's how you guys flew to Disneyland. Yes. So that's how we flew to Disneyland for so cheap. Okay. Um, because flying a family of four from coast to coast is a lot like thousands. Yeah. And then just the Disneyland tickets themselves. So that's another reason we were able to get that trip planned and go on it um we flew bottom of the barrel and so we right after we had bought in those flight passes I kind of had it in my head like oh I could fly for clients for super super super cheap like 50 or 100 bucks nothing yeah yeah um and with a 10 ,500 project project, what's a hundred bucks?

3:29Right. That, that's what I was thinking when I was building the proposal that had the package offers in it. I was going back and forth on the numbers. I was really stressed in wanting to like get the proposal sent out and have it ready to go, have the contract ready to go. You know, what am I going to say as far as travel in my contract and in the moment I had thought that covering the cost of travel within I put parameters on it that that would be another way that she might want to work with me like another another reason that she would say yeah to say yes and to sign the contract and work with me and looking back it's just so silly because it's not it's not reasonable to cover your own costs not at all for travel for a client it's and I don't even mediocre clients I don't think would expect you to yeah and I just cringe at it because I also think it's just a level of respect of like oh they don't even like maybe respect themselves enough to maybe it's not respect maybe there's another word for it but um I I do think it just it's unreasonable and it's really desperate sounding to like I'll even cover the cost of my travel um

5:05so when I put it in the contract I was I think I made that decision very like in a stressed state and really not wanting to miss out on it or lose it. And I thought of it as like a perk. And looking back, I don't think that's why she went with me. I don't think so either. No, no. So, and I had just, it's funny because I had just seen a quote that I posted on LinkedIn of like the three rules of business. It's going to cost twice as much as you thought. It's going to take twice as long as you thought. And you're not the exception.

5:51And when I got back from this trip yesterday, I was, I took, I had to take a red eye flight because that was the only one that was available for the past. For Frontier. For Frontier. Oh God. And so I left L.A. at like 7.45 p.m., had a layover in Vegas, flight from Vegas, left at 11 p.m., flew through the night into Raleigh. Yeah. And I was sitting on the plane. I'm so uncomfortable. I'm exhausted. I'm like, I have the eye mask. I'm trying to sleep. And I'm like, this is costing twice as much as I thought. This is taking twice as long as I thought. And I am not the exception. And it was still totally worth it.

6:46It was not 50 or 100 bucks. Between the food and all the Ubers, it was more than that. And so that is definitely a point of embarrassment. It's a learning moment. It was a huge learning moment. What were the parameters that you put in the contract as far as travel goes? One trip? Like, are you done? I think I put one trip a quarter. Oh. So, like, four within a year. Wow. Yeah, which, again. So you could do three more potentially. Yeah, and I feel like I got so lucky with getting a client that is so reasonable and kind and I really feel like values me because someone else who is not all of those things would, I would be taken advantage of and it would be my own dang fault because I put it in my contract.

7:52But she is not like that at all. So are you going to talk to her about it? Yeah. Okay. Because I'm like, wow, if you have to do three more trips, that would be a lot. Yeah. Yeah, so. And because you said the flight also was not$20. So the flight back was$25. Oh, wow. Mm-hmm. Okay. I thought you said that the flight out. The flight out, so that, you know, since you can only book them within 24 hours. Okay. You have to book each leg separately within 24. You have to book each leg separately. Oh, this sounds so stressful. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And there's actually a frontier. So the pass is called Go Wild Pass.

8:32So there's a frontier Go Wild Pass Facebook group. I can only imagine. You can only imagine. Because they market it towards the spontaneous, flexible traveler. Sure. Who just wants, who has a free weekend. Sure. Or works remotely, which is another big reason my family and I got the pass is because my husband and I both work remotely. And if you're like, let's go to Cabo for the weekend and pack our bags, I'm like, yeah. Great. Because we want to see our family back in Utah. And so it's a lot of the dialogue on the Facebook group is like, you know try not to use the pass for like planned out with your ten thousand dollar client yeah so that's why I had to take a red eye because the other flight was full and it it was just all like so rookie but it I don't think I would change it like I think I would do it again like not pay for um I would have her pay for the travel but the trip was worth it because we spent so much time totally together and not just getting to know each other but meeting this factory going to try on jeans getting a pulse on her customer because her customer is not where I live in North Carolina.

10:12Her customer is LA, New York, um, and seeing the other customers in the store, um, they're buying habits. They're, it's just a different personality, a different life. And And getting to do that with my client was, it was incredible. Yeah, it's priceless. You can't. Yeah. Yeah. You can't put a price on it. No pun intended. No pun intended. So, yes, the really crappy layover red-eye flights are the cheapest ones. So, yeah. This is exciting. You know, I know we mentioned it earlier, but just to really hammer it home, you live in a small town in North Carolina. She lives in L.A. She could have hired any number of, air quote, denim designers.

11:22And there's a lot of denim designers in L.A. Yeah. you're gonna have to get to the bottom of why she hired you and give us some updates i wonder if she did she answer the email yet okay check your email messaged me back i'm just dying to know she didn't not yet okay okay uh well maybe you can let me know and i can interject something at the end of the episode before it goes live yeah um otherwise we'll we'll update the show notes at some point yeah um because I'd be very curious like you know it's interesting because I I think there's a lot of people who have doubts about working with any brand that exists or is starting in fashion hubs New York LA you know London even Dallas or something right um because well they'll just go with someone local but yeah maybe not you know well so the more I got to know her she has a very entrepreneurial mindset and I think that's another reason that she didn't go with someone local um maybe she was choosing between someone local um I can't wait to find out I wish I found out before this um but the fashion hubs are so corporate-y because there's so many brands there um but she's from what I know about her now and after spending a day with her she has a very entrepreneurial mindset that I think helped make the decision and we'll we'll find out hopefully soon yeah we will find out soon it's exciting well congratulations this is a huge win thank you messaged me I think very shortly after it happened and I was so excited and I was like we have to do a podcast and you're like okay hey, we have to do it in person.

13:30I was like, totally. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I sent the screenshot that I sent you of the contract being signed. I sent it to my close friends, to family. And this is the first time that my extended family has asked about how my work is going. Oh, wow. And. In response to that screenshot they asked. Yeah. And I've never, there's only one person in my extended family. Um, well, I shouldn't say that cause I'm thinking of both, uh, both my families, but in laws and yeah, in laws and my sisters and whatnot. Um, but it's, it's the first time that I feel like certain members of my extended family are taking it seriously.

14:30Um, cause the, the most expensive project that I had gotten before this one was, I want to say it was in the$3 ,000 range. Okay. So not, I mean, not nothing. Yeah. That's a really good chunk. Yeah. That's a really good chunk. Yeah. Um, And I also have a entrepreneur friend, mentor. He's about 10 years older than me. He's much more seasoned. He has, I've lost count of how many businesses he has at this point. But his, you know, if he, if a deal works out in business for him, it's in like the hundreds,$100 ,000 range. and I've recognized over the years that I've always compared myself to him and know now that that's not helpful because he's 10 years older than me.

15:34He doesn't have kids running around at home. He's not a mom. The circumstances are so different. They're so different. But I was nervous to share it with him, like share the good news with him because I know for him,$10 ,000 is nothing. He's looking at way bigger projects. And I shared that with him. And I said, it just feels like chump change. And he's like, there's no point in comparing. We're on totally different everythings. and I've started adopting the mindset of like don't compare yourself to others only compare yourself to yourself yesterday and when I started freelancing in March of 2020 I did not think that I would ever get a$10 ,000 project and so it doesn't it just doesn't make sense to compare yourself to someone who's not even they're not even doing the same thing yeah i love that line only compare yourself to yourself yesterday that's an amazing one we've been errol does a lot of compare you know their kids they're five well you're four and nine and four nine and four my son's five and they're so comparative at that age and i always say to him i said you know great doesn't doesn't really tell me anything about how you're doing so we just let's just compare ourselves to ourselves but I like the I'm going to add that yesterday yeah or last year yeah yeah yeah your prior self um real quick you said you felt for some of your family members you felt that when they see you getting this ten thousand dollar project all of a sudden you're like oh now they're taking me seriously in my career or my business or what have you yeah how do you feel like they took you before?

17:37What did they, what was your perception or what was their perception that you felt? I felt that they always looked at it as fun side work that I did when I wasn't changing diapers or potty training. The traumatizing mom moments. Yeah. Oh, Potty training has really done a number on me. And just that it was like it's something fun and cute.

18:14And no, none of my family has ever said that to me. But it doesn't feel great to sit down to dinner and everyone's saying, how's work? How's work? and they ask my husband that, but they don't ask me that. And even if I wasn't working outside the home and I was just focusing on motherhood and my family, that's still work. It's so much work. It's so much work. It's so much work. And it's not seen as work because we don't get paid. So the debate is like, is it really work? and that's a whole other topic of discussion, but I never sent anyone a screenshot of that$3 ,000 project. Mm-hmm. I mean, I told my sisters because we're a lot closer, but I didn't share that with my extended family because it just didn't feel like proof enough.

19:23Mm-hmm. I totally get what you're saying. and the ten thousand dollar market just was it's a different level and there was someone that I didn't even share with someone in my extended family and she had texted me like hey how's it going I heard you got a really big contract and I was like heard from who like in the grapevine yeah somewhere in the family yeah you know how's so-and-so doing how's so-and-so doing yeah and And I wish that I didn't need the validation, but there's something different. There's just something different about being validated from your family than from your friends or peers.

20:12I have people in family situations, or I have similar dynamics, where I'm you. Yeah. Yeah. And it like just eats at you to some extent. It's just a dagger to the heart. It is a little bit. And you're just like, oh. And then you get that little bit of proof and you're like, here it is. Eat that. Eat that. Expletive. MF. Eat it. Yeah. Yeah. I know the feeling. I know it very well. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And my work has never been to prove to my family that I can do this. It's been proof to myself and my husband that I can do this. Um, but it just felt incredible to finally have some type of dialogue and conversation asking me about my work and not be pushed to the side of just like, oh, she's a mom.

21:21Just a mom. Yeah. and anyone who is any mom who is focusing or devote devote devoting their time to motherhood it's still work and they're not just a mom but that's just how it is in our culture and how it's seen yeah and I almost feel like I've been part of the problem because I fell I feel like I've I fell into that hustle culture. Um, it was a lot kind of when the lean in book came out from Sheryl Sandberg, Sheryl Sandberg. And it was like, just the dynamic, at least here in America, totally changed of like moms doing stuff on the side. Like they've got an Etsy business or they're trying to build a business while they have kids from home.

22:19And I think it's gotten to the point where it's almost like oh what's your what's your thing that you do outside of kids like do you sell wedding invitations on Etsy or um something yeah something yeah and I I really feel like I've been part of the problem I've seen other women like if they don't have something on the side I've seen them as just like just a mom of like you must be so bored and my sister told me about this book it just came out this year it's called the power pause by nina uh grew i don't remember the last name we'll have to link it in the show notes but she talks about reframing the narrative of like that it's not always a choice but that some women do choose to stay home with their kids and that that choice should be respected even though you don't understand it that it should be respected because it is so much work and that it's an intentional downshift and that's another thing that I obviously love about freelancing is it's like if I'm tired of being at the computer and I want to go take my kids to the park I can intentionally choose to stop working for the day and go spend time with my kids yeah it's a great place to be yeah yeah and to have that choice is a huge privilege I think that um or something recently it was compared to and I can't recall.

24:10But time freedom, I think, I know for some people, nine to five jobs are great. And that's one of those ones that I try, I don't understand it, but I try to be respectful of like, if that works for you, amazing, great. Because freelancing is not for everybody. I get that. Right. But I don't know. I think as soon as you get a taste of time freedom. It is hard to go back. So like, let me do my grocery shopping. Let me go run. Let me take my kids to the park when I want. Exactly. Wow. Talk about like operating from a place of power. Exactly. And I think it's worth saying on this episode so that others can, listening can have context.

25:02But I was thinking about going back to the industry full-time, which you know. Yeah. you were applying for some jobs I was applying some interviews I had gotten some interviews yeah so yeah this was in February and March just of this year of this year yeah five uh six months ago yeah so yeah um my husband and I were talking more about freelancing and if it's still the right route to go for me because I wasn't getting consistent projects and my defense sort of was that I was just coming out of a huge mental crisis and that you guys had moved across the country we just moved across the country I I was not okay I was just coming out of all of that and that like I need some time to get work in the door.

25:56But I finally started to consider going, I would say going back to the industry full-time, but I technically never worked in the industry full-time except for that four-month internship. And we still were not sure if we were going to stay in North Carolina. And I finally went to New York for the first time in September with you and, and the whole fast event and got a taste of New York and was asking myself like, would I ever want to work full time in New York? Like, would we ever want to live there? And we were, it was a few months of really hard questions of, is this what we want? Can I freelance right now?

26:47Or do I need to put that on the back burner and get a full-time job to have that two-week auto deposit paycheck. And so I started applying to jobs. I got an interview for a senior denim designer in New York City for$110 ,000 a year. A senior denim designer with no in-house experience. With no in-house experience. I just want to say that's an amazing feat to have gotten the interview in the first place. I was really surprised. That particular one I applied to on a whim. Yeah. And I got the interview. Again, we were asking really deep questions of would we really want to live in New York City? Could we afford to live in New York City with two kids?

27:43You know, if my husband's making XYZ, if I get this job that's$110 ,000 a year.

27:51and thinking back to being in New York city in September for the fast event, riding the subway, I got that feeling, that same feeling I had when I was riding the train, when I went to school in LA of, Oh no, no. Is this what I want? Do I want to commute and be on a train with millions of other people? Um, and so I got the interview and then I, decided to ask would would you be open would this position be open to remote I would offer to be in house one week a month I talked to you about it you graciously wrote me a letter of recommendation and I also think I told you that I thought it was crazy yeah I said that's a long time away from your family every month that's a lot of travel then you're like staying in a hotel or Airbnb I go I think it kind of sounds horrible I have no filter yeah and I know and I appreciated that bluntly it was like I don't think this I think you really need to think about this I don't think it sounds that great yeah and I really appreciated the candidness is that a word yeah Yeah.

29:14Because I felt so confused that I didn't feel like I could really see things clearly. And the more my husband and I talked about it and just really went through the nitty gritty of it. And then when I had asked the brand if they would be open to remote or hybrid, they said, no, we want in-house. And I said, okay, then I won't waste your time with the interview because that's the only option.

29:47And then I got that email that said, you have a new project intake form. Boom. Boom. And then I texted you and I said, I don't think I'm supposed to work full time in-house. I don't think you are either. I don't, yeah. I don't think you are either. This feels like a really exciting season for you. yeah yeah I'm very happy for you yeah I'm thrilled um where can everybody connect to the online on my website okay uh so it's JacquelineDiane.com okay um fully revamped website yeah it looks so good everybody listening go check it out because take some inspo you did a really nice job I definitely was a bit cringy after I did the revamp and I couldn't stop looking at it I was like I I love it.

30:38It's so good. Look at what a great job I did. Good. I'm glad you're celebrating yourself in that way. Yeah. I feel really proud of it. Yeah. And I was proud that I woke up at like 2 a.m., had ideas for it, and then I just went downstairs and I just got it all done within like I think a day. And then I got some feedback from it through the other community that I'm a part of, the Conscious Fashion Collective. another huge um just supporting supportive community um I went to a month we have monthly feedback sessions where you can just get feedback on anything that's super cool um so I got great feedback there and tweaked it revamped some some things and then um I haven't touched it since but But I, yeah, I think it's great.

31:32It is great. And I'll ask you the question I ask at the end every time, which you know the question. What is one thing people never ask you about being a freelance fashion designer that you wish they would? I wish they would ask, how is work going? Well, you've shared that all with us, and I'm so happy to hear that it's going so well. Yeah. Yeah. Congrats, Jacqueline. Thank you. I'm very excited for you.