262: From Permalance to Premium: How Niching Down Landed Martha 5-Figure Freelance Projects

0:00Martha Fogarty:Are you tired of saying yes to whatever freelance gig comes your way, working with pain in the bleep clients and not getting paid what you're worth? Martha Fogarty was too. After years of permalance gigs, unpaid invoices, and murky job titles, she drew a line in the sand. We worked together in my Fast Track Turbo program, and one big shift we made was getting her crystal clear on her niche and offer. It was the one domino that changed everything. In this episode, Martha shares how that clarity flipped the power dynamic, brought in multiple five-figure projects, and helped her build a freelance business that's finally on her own terms.

0:31Martha Fogarty:If you want more referrals, higher rates, and clients who actually respect your boundaries, this one's for you. I want to talk first about how getting clear on your niche and your offer and your customer. You told me in a conversation a few weeks ago that because you got hyper clear on these things, you are in the works of or I think you closed a five-figure contract because of word of mouth but only because you had gotten really clear on your offer in your niche that's kind of the foundation of where I want to kick start and then we could talk about so many things because you've kind of productized your offer and I want to talk about that um but first like tell us about how this unfolded well it was you know I would love to say it was like oh okay like I worked with you and then like the very next day I was like I do this and it's so clear and just but it was actually a little bit more of an evolution of okay here are all the things that I'm now like cleaving off.

1:47I am not doing this and doing this and doing this and this and this and this and this. What are the core things that I'm offering? And that much thanks to you. Actually, you were the one who was like, this is what you do, by the way. Launch women's wear brands. It's what I've done professionally. I've almost exclusively worked in Upstarts and then launched my own brands and all these other things. Here's the thing. Everyone that knows me knows that I've done those things. So yet somehow what I was conveying that I was doing and what I had done were like ships in the night. They just like never the two were meeting on a landing client trajectory.

2:39And it wasn't until I like got really clear about, okay, I am no longer going to offer whatever it is that they're needing so that I fit what they're looking. It's like, here's what I offer. It just flipped the power dynamic and my value to people. you know because the truth is is like if you're constantly just trying to fill you know plug holes you know you don't have enough fingers but if you are like oh okay I do this one thing and my peg fits in that slot oh and it also fits in this slot and it's like all of a sudden then those holes start coming towards you so that was really what was amazing is that I got really clear about what it was that I was doing, not just to others, but to myself.

3:31And I think just the talking about it, talking about what I was doing with clients, the way that I was talking about it must have been much different and much more clear because all of the new clients that I've gotten are actually from referrals from people that I know. Who you knew before as well. I knew before who I've known for five years, 10 years, 20 years. And so but they weren't thinking about me in that way that like when someone said that one thing, I was the person that they thought of. They might have been like, oh, my friend Martha works in fashion. Maybe ask her a question or two.

4:15It wasn't. That's what my friend Martha does.

4:17Martha Fogarty:You need Martha. Yeah. And that has been the biggest, the biggest shift. And it's also made things a lot more clear. You know, I'm getting a lot of like infield sort of, you know, queries from LinkedIn or even from my website. my website's not even great but now when I respond it's not oh well and I can do this and I can do that and I can do this it's here's what I can do it will be tailored to you and your needs but in essence these are this is the framework and it has my level of call conversion has gone way up. My level of landing deals has gone way up. And just across the board, it's made everything, I don't want to say easier, like it has.

5:15Yeah. It has.

5:18Martha Fogarty:So if you could, could you, if this is possible, explain to us, like, right, you said you've got these people who know you five ten however many years and now when they hear someone maybe talk about a need they're like oh martha's the one versus oh martha works in fashion she does some stuff in fashion who kind of knows what she does this vague thing it's now like oh no she's the one like how how were you communicating with these people before about who you are in the fashion world and what you do in the fashion world versus how are you communicating with them now that they now think of you as the one to send these people to and then when these people come to you they're like oh I just have to talk to Martha like they're almost sold before they get to you I would argue yeah yeah I I agree with that I I think that they're already they're already three or four steps into whatever how many steps of the decision making process of who they're going to work with, they're already like ripper steps into it by the time that I talk to them, which is a great place to work from.

6:29It's hard to know. I can't really put my, I was thinking about this actually, since the last time we talked, but like, what is it exactly that I've been saying differently or doing differently? But I do think it's talking about exactly what it is that I'm doing for my clients as opposed to, and this is a big shift that I think happened, is that it wasn't that I wasn't doing this before. I was just doing it in a freelance capacity where I wasn't necessarily the one putting together the scope. And I wasn't necessarily the one outlining what my job responsibilities were going to be. They would sort of have a job posted.

7:26I would respond whether it actually was freelance or not freelance at times. but you know because freelance is like you scope you price you you know cut and set all the terms and also they can't necessarily they tell you sort of what they need done but they can't tell you necessarily how to do it that was not what was the freelance that I was doing before and so

7:55Martha Fogarty:in New York City just to clarify so permalance is a really big thing it's a real thing like if you google freelance designer or freelance tech designer or freelance anything in new york city you're going to get pages and pages and pages of permalance which is a full-time job plus where they often pay you a weekly rate because you're going to be working way over 40 hours and also it's just a full-time job and they just don't want to pay benefits and you know all that so prevalent um so anyway so I was running into that a lot and what I found is that I was working with people and I was you know I would come in to do this one thing you know whether it was launch their brand or if it was just to you know kind of revamp and reposition their brand on like a big scale or whatever and then it would be like oh but you're so good at this do this too oh you're so good at this do this too or I'd be like hey guys why is it working like this here I came up with this whole plan you know for like how your business can work better faster smarter and a whole hell of a lot better for everybody involved and they'd be like great okay I put it into work, but like, I wasn't getting paid more.

9:23And I was constantly sort of then pulled over here and pulled over there and doing this and doing that. You know, I'd have like six titles, you know, and it'd be like, yeah, they were all great director level titles or like head of design, head of atelier, head of whatever. But it wasn't that I was, you know, kind of, if you're focused everywhere, you're focused nowhere. And I think that not only was, did that set me up for success, although I was successful in the roles, but I didn't feel successful in those roles. It also didn't set me up for when I was communicating to other people outside those companies, what I was doing for those companies to be really clear, because I was everywhere, you know and so when I took a step back and I was like I gotta shift this and it's no longer like okay you're telling me sort of what we're doing it's I'm now telling you what I can do for you how I'm going to do it and how I'm going to deliver one people are a lot nicer to me like remarkably so um to when I set a boundary people listen maybe not the first time but the second time they do um which is not something I do easily as you know boundaries yeah you and I worked very hard on boundaries yeah but like but I think what that did is also when I would be talking to people that I knew, I could say, oh, I am doing this.

11:03And wow, this happened because of this. And so it started to convey not only that, like, one, I am offering something that I'm delivering on, and I'm able to show results. But it was like, oh, I took myself, although I wasn't, it wasn't that I wasn't an expert over here. I just made myself in the position. It's sort of like, which angle of the telescope are you looking at? And I was, you know, I'm now the one sort of pointing the view. And that, I think that is the difference, more so than maybe, because these are people I know. So I wasn't like, I do this, and I'm right, here's my talk. I think it was how I was coming at just telling them about what I was doing, that made it for for them in like big ways and like somehow internationally where like my friend I told me who does like she does like costume in experimental theater right so yeah so he was he was in London working on a show and then the guy who was the choreographer his sister came to see the show so they're talking afterwards and they were she wanted to start a fashion brand and he was like oh you should talk to martha that's what she does she'll do this for you so now here we are and we're working together and i'm thrilled and she's thrilled and everybody's thrilled um yeah so it's i think sometimes all of the clarity and like the the way and the words that you use to like pitch can come from the clarity of like who you are in your dynamic of offer.

12:57Yeah. That's so fascinating to me because it's not like you were explicitly saying,

13:06Martha Fogarty:oh, I'm a freelance fashion designer. And then you all of a sudden started saying, oh, I'm a freelance fashion designer who does this. It wasn't even that simple or arguably even that intentional. It was more a product of, if I'm interpreting correctly what you said here, a product of your work that you're doing for these brands changed. It went from going in-house and doing eight different titles, because I know some brands were pulling you into like, and you have an amazing track record and you've worked with some amazing brands to get really big results. I'm aware of some of these. And then they would bring you in for that, but then they're I was like, oh, wait, you know how to do tech packs and fittings?

13:50Martha Fogarty:Like, all of a sudden, you're the TD. And so it shifted from that to working with brands very intentionally of, like, here's what I do. I'm going to help you start your brand. And just a product of your workload shifting casually or naturally translated into these, what I'm assuming are casual conversations you have with friends when you're just hanging out. like for a happy hour or like whatever and all of a sudden they see you in this different lens and it's more clear like oh that's what she does and then they come across somebody who needs a brand and then they're like oh talk to Martha that's exactly what she does I mean is that kind of it I think that is it and I think it's you know it's something that I couldn't have anticipated that that would have been the avenue from where a lot of opportunity would have come from.

14:52I thought it was going to be, okay, now I'm going to have to do a lot of customer research and be reaching out and a lot of advertising. I've done no advertising. And I've booked consistent clients simply because one, you know, as you have, like, make sure there's a demand, like for step one, make sure somebody wants what you're doing. Like, yes, there was a demand. But like, I thought that I was going to have to like meet demand with like advertising so that people could like find me. And ultimately, yes, I will have to do that. But right now, I've had enough work coming in, just because the people that I know are like connecting the dots for me.

15:34I think because I connected the dots for them without realizing it. Oh, so, okay.

15:42Martha Fogarty:I love the way you just said that without even realizing it too. It wasn't intentional. It was just an organic byproduct of how your work structure changed as a freelancer, changed the way you then talked about it. yeah oh that's so cool and it's made it really really it's made it really great to work with my clients too because you know they know what to expect and you know I'm delivering against those expectations and then some you know that's the goal across the board but like Like, also then, you know, when I say, oh, hey, I think we can further this, you know, it paves the way for, like, you're both, you're, like, proving what you can do and then paves the way to, like, build on that more.

16:36You know, if, you know, is it, you know, great, we've gotten this far. That's the end of our road together. Do you want to continue on for, like, the next phase? they do because you know we it's been a good working relationship because it's just changed everything about how I'm interacting with clients I'm definitely being less like knee-jerk reaction to like something needs to get done so I'm just going to be the one to do it that's not always the right answer yeah you know and sometimes that the thing that needs to get done is actually outside of your scope. So like, if you are the one to do it, you're just giving your time and skill away for free, which I was doing a lot.

17:21Martha Fogarty:And I know a lot of people do a lot. Yeah. Okay. So can you talk a little bit about your offer? Because I really appreciate what you said earlier of like, I'm not finding all these holes to be plugged and then like running out of fingers to actually plug them. I'm saying like, no, this is the hole that I plug. And then all these plugs are, all these holes are coming at me and need this exact plug that I have. And so can you talk a little bit about, what is that plug? Like what is the offer? Cause you, in a way you, I mentioned this earlier, you've productized your offer to some extent in a way that some freelancers maybe will get there.

18:10Martha Fogarty:some maybe won't because of a long list of reasons and I don't think you have to get to this stage but I I think people find it interesting to hear about how you have your offer set up almost like as these three tiers and it's like you're starting a brand these are the three tiers I have to work with me and it might be personalized a little bit but it's kind of set of like these are the three ways to work with me which one would you like yeah yeah I think that it's yeah so I have three tiers um and they obviously sort of all build on each other so like if you get the premium tier um which now I've kind of just started to refer to as like the ghost design package like like sort of ghost writer you know kind of idea where like okay you want to start a fashion brand great Like, you don't really want to, you know, kind of learn the ins and outs.

19:08You know what your role is going to be, which is just like kind of owner, manage the process. Maybe they don't want to be super involved. You know, it's sort of, I will deliver you. I will deliver you a successful, sellable, most likely sellout, get press, like business, full, up and running, great, good. And I go from like day zero to sample collection delivery. And then obviously, if we want to continue on, that might look a little bit different. But right now, that's the area and like the scope that I'm working on. The tier sort of below that is for people who want to be a little bit more hands on and they want to actually know more about the business.

20:00and they want to know more about like how to design uh what is designing i think a lot of people i've realized once you're in it for so long you realize that people outside don't actually understand like what is design it is not sitting down and drawing a bunch of like pretty pictures it's not that is part of it and i think everyone will agree it's the most fun part of it but it is a very small part of it and it's like okay so how do you know this is where i can like pull from a lot of like my education background you know design thinking fashion design kind of all that and for people that don't come from design background or a manufacturing background or business ownership background and kind of being and knitting together like design business entrepreneurship like the business of fashion and what that entails and also sort of you know like the the ways that you and anyone who's had a fashion brand will tell you like it's all of the things that you have to do that like perfectly tie up in a little bow to like deliver the product to the client or to the customer for them to believe that they are the ones who have discovered you and are making like their they ascribe their affinity to your you can tell them all you want who you are but if they don't believe it they won't buy it so that's where like a lot of and like all pulling really comes in play so it's sort of uh like if we have like a strong arm emoji it would be like me strong arm and you strong arm um but I do more of the execution so like they learn and we're talking like everything from like yes design but it's also like cash flow planning who the people are that you're going to be meeting how to interact with them how to a lot of people haven't run a business before so they don't even know how to manage like people or like timelines and communications and it sounds a lot easier than it is especially once you're up and running you've got three seasons in the mix somehow um so i do most of the execution there too um but it's much more of i also sort of guide and equip you with the knowledge and know-how so that like next season theoretically you could go and do it all yourself um or no i want to do this and i know i'm going to hire somebody for this and i know i need to have this amount budgeted to do that.

22:48And then my lowest tier, which has actually been pretty successful. I've had, you know, several people go through it. You know, not every client, you know, you get, you get what you put in, like everything, you know, like, if you don't go to class in college, you're probably not going to get an A. So, but this is where, like, again, strong arm emoji, like I definitely have like my teacher hat on and they have the strong arm. They are doing all of the execution, but I'm giving them like all the tools, framework and knowledge to do that. And that is the only package here that only goes up to the point at which they then would go into product development.

23:37Because I'm not hands-on, I don't manage their product development. They go and handle that. I have kind of woven in a little add-on package that like if they want to continue on, I will help them with the product development. But yeah, I mean, I think just sort of knowing like here are the options, you know, like you get this, you get this, and you get this. Here's where this takes you. Here's where this takes you. And here's where this takes you. You know, and like the premium tier is popular for a lot of reasons because you know a lot of people they want to just be the business owner and they don't want to actually sort of know how to do everything because they know that their model for their business is i am going to employ people to do this great great the middle tier i really love because it gives people the power to, you know, it's really empowering to be like, okay, I mean, we all wish that we ran successful businesses every day, all year, every year, but there are going to be lean times and there are going to be fat times.

24:52And in the lean times, being able to be like, okay, I don't have enough money for a tech designer for these last three styles or whatever, but I know how to do a tech I can do it. Like that is a pretty amazing thing as a business owner to be like, I'm not relying on constantly having to, you know, keep throwing cash into the machines, make this engine go. But yeah, so it's been really good. And I think it's been really valuable to everybody kind of across the board, what they've gotten out of it. And it's also been really interesting, I think, especially working in the industry for so long. You don't realize like how much value you can give and how much like knowledge you can give.

25:42You know, I mean, I've worked with like a bunch of institutions, you know. So like I was thinking like, oh, college level. Oh, yeah. But like for people who didn't go to design school that are adults, you know, it's no the knowledge is no different. You know, it just maybe how you teach it is a little different.

26:01Martha Fogarty:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So those are those are the structures of how I work. And actually, people love seeing that structure of like, it's this, it's this and it's this. like where can I meet you at where you're at right now um and I think that is actually one of the biggest selling points is that I am meeting them where they're at I'm not saying okay I only do this so either like get on board or you know you know it's like we can we can work with you Yeah. Can I, I think my understanding of tier, the first tier is enough that I want to give a couple more details about how you work with people and where I see it in my head on that tier.

26:50Martha Fogarty:It's like, because you said it's them, you're guiding them and they're doing more of the execution. and it's because I know we've talked about this it's like they have this idea they want to start a brand so you have to come up with all the designs and all the styles and to do that requires some research and arguably a certain design aesthetic and so you kind of guide them through you're like go shop your closet go shop at these stores go look at these websites gather up these pieces of air quote trend or inspiration and you guide them through that process all the way from the initial design through some of the construction details if you're like okay now we need to figure out this pocket and so like okay great now the client is going to go source some pockets and start taking pictures and then comes back to you with all this air quote homework that you give on a weekly basis as you guys are going through this process together and then you ultimately build out these design boards that you've helped guide them to make and also you've helped lend your expertise as to what is going to work or maybe not work for a long list of reasons and then you take those and you teach them but you also do I think the execution on the tech packs and then they are done with finished design boards finished tech packs for x number of styles for their collection.

28:13Martha Fogarty:And that's kind of phase one. That's phase one. Yeah. Okay. So I want to explain that to give people a really specific idea of what, um, you know, versus the premium tier is you, Martha, the freelancer, the consultant are going out, you're doing the shopping, you're taking the pictures, you're pulling all the stuff, you're putting it together, you're presenting it to them. Then you're doing some of the execution. Then you're also bringing in some of your trusted partners in your network to do more nuanced things, maybe like pattern making, and you're helping introduce to factories and suppliers and more robust beyond here's the tech packs.

28:50Martha Fogarty:And, you know, that's kind of the stopping point. And so it's and then there's a middle tier in there. But I just I want to explain the differential between them doing parts of the process and what that actually looks like in those two different tiers. Did I get that kind of accurate? Yeah. Yeah. And actually all of the like homework in that in that lower tier, which I call boarding pass, it's, you know, it's it's twofold. It like serves two purposes. You know, it's like one. Yes, it's fun to go take pictures. And, you know, all of a sudden, you know, like theoretically, every single person has a shirt dress in their closet.

29:29Right. but 99.9 % of the population hasn't thought about like what kind of color if I'm going to make a shirt dress like they've never thought about all the colors that they've ever seen they've never thought about all the collar stands that they've seen they never thought about all the plackets that they've seen they never thought about the pockets so it's this like epiphany kind of homework where like it's also fun right like you go to a store you go to your closet like you know take pictures, you know, Google pockets, you know, all of a sudden you realize that there's so much about pockets out there, but also it's not unlimited.

30:07You know, it's like, you know, there's a finite number of ways to finish a pocket. So like you have a lot to choose from, but it's not overwhelming. So I feel like that's one element of the homework, which is like, oh, you start to really see that there's all these options for all the different elements of a garment. And also just by virtue of opening up and looking around, they start to understand how things are sewn together. They don't need to know, you know, this is, you know, you know, double face, you know, construction, you know, that's where I come in. Because as we're going back and forth about all the elements that they want to put into each of their designs, you know, they'll send me like, you know, pictures of plackets that they found that they might want to use.

30:57And they'll have questions. How's this? How's that? How would it work? You know, is this fabric going to work for them? By the time that we start with this project and by the time that sort of we end with this project, which is where I then go and do the tech packs, and I treat them like the creative director. You have to tell me what you want the same way as like when I'm not there next season, you're going to have to be very specific with whoever you work with to tell them what you want. The time from like a start to the finish, at that finish point, they're using like so much terminology. They're able to recognize like the learning curve is very steep, but it's very effective.

31:43um and like more so and I even used this you know when I was teaching at the college level because you know before it would be like okay take these two pieces of muslin and now you know put the wrong side together and put it through the machine you know now sir okay this is an overlock seam and they're like okay like why where how um it didn't give enough I started using this when I was teaching because it all of a sudden the kids were like I understand not only what the stitch is useful for I understand what kind of fabrics it's used on I loved how the row finish this jacket. I want to do that.

32:30Okay. That is this like, and these things are actually toolkits that they can take forward into all of their seasons and all collections forward of pictures of how they want to have things finished. Because when they take those tech packs, one, having these detailed design sheets in this way, one, they understand what actually is in their tech packs. Most people do not understand what is in their tech packs. So they don't know if they're getting the right or wrong or somewhere in between. They also wouldn't know if they have no idea what like an overlock scene looks like. So now that they have a picture of it, when they actually get their sample back from the factory or their prototype, they can say, well, this doesn't look like this.

33:15What went wrong here? So it's all these checks and balances that actually moves them significantly faster through the process than if they didn't have that. And obviously sets them up for like a huge knowledge base really quickly. Yeah.

33:32Martha Fogarty:It's very empowering to give them that foundation of knowledge. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, they're able to, you know, they're able to speak about what they want their clothes to be. Yeah. But one of the things that's actually in all tier, you know is like streamlining what your brand is like figuring out those brand pillars finding out your brand mission aligning that not just with who you think your customer is but like who is the actual customer and how do you reach them and that's not just like oh I know that my customer you know I mean because everybody's like oh well my customer makes you know 150 ,000 a year and she always you know goes to vacation you know it's sans-tropay and it's like yes that is a person that exists but you need to sell more than one dress so you know who is your customer really as a group and like how does you know and then you know it's okay so what are the shared attributes of those people where are they shopping you know what you know what products are they buying from those places you know and what is the price point what are the fabrics what are the color palettes are they trend driven are they heritage driven like so we really dive in deep and that's really where I get to the point where it's like when I say like you will be handed like the tools to be able to go sell and I you know never 100 % guarantee that you're going to be able to sell, you know, but like 99.99 % you, if somebody's not buying it, you're, you either haven't tried to sell it or, you know, you haven't like one of the levers that we ascribe to your brand is like way off, either your prices are too high or, you know, anything else.