268: Solo to Scaling: How This Booked Out Footwear Freelancer Is Building an Agency

0:00Louise Ryan:Louise Ryan didn't wake up one day booked out. She built her freelance footwear business brick by brick. From cold pitching and nurturing long-term relationships to consistently marketing herself and landing premium clients, Louise has worked hard to grow what she has today. In this episode, she shares how all of that effort led to her hitting capacity and why she's now focused on scaling beyond herself. If you're wondering how to grow your freelance business with intention, this one's for you. Let's get to it. super excited to have you back on the podcast, Louise. So last time we spoke, and we'll link everybody to the episode, you had come off of, you were just crawling out of maternity leave, and your second son was just born, and you had gone from basically three to four thousand pounds a month to zero a month to 12 ,000 pounds a month.

0:53Louise Ryan:And it was quite an exciting growth and trajectory. And I'd love to catch up with you today and hear a little bit more about the growth you've had since then, which has been well over a year since we've talked and everything that's going on, because I know you've built a pretty incredible business. Yeah. Yeah, it's been quite crazy um in a good way um I managed to kind of establish I think last time we spoke and I'd been planting all the seeds and they were starting to grow um and had kind of like um a bit of a rush of work um but I've just really been nurturing those seeds over the last year and really building on some of those clients so I've actually been getting um a lot more work through some of my clients they're passing some of their clients on to me which is really really good um and just kind of like really getting those roots down um with the connections um that I've got I've also I can see well I basically am at full capacity now I can't take in any more clients on or do any more work so I'm at the point where I'm starting to I have started to use a couple of freelancers very lightly but with the intention to kind of pass a lot more on so I can work on on the business because I can see where the areas are that can grow I can see where there's new gaps in the market starting to emerge so I really want to like tap into those and um yeah I've started loads of things have happened I actually got offered um actually got offered a full-time role in between all this um and I was considering it for a little bit but I actually reached out to all my clients and just kind of gave them a heads up and like all of them came back and gave me they were like no please don't take the take it um and they kind of all of them kind of like pitched together in their own little ways and they gave me like an 18 18 month like schedule of all the work they can give me just to kind of secure me so I didn't yeah so it was amazing wow yeah and so from that I think that really spurred on the fact that because I had that kind of secured I could see how I could grow it kind of freed up a bit of my brain so I could see where I could potentially grow more and gain more clients um yeah I've taken on I've been working with a coach more for like mindset and dealing with some of those tricky conversations you have to have sometimes you know day rates project rates things like that but I'm actually talking to a few people um like a business strategy session or because I want to I really want to like plot it down have a strategy I need a little bit of help with that now that's the next yeah I don't know we've got a call in as well for some coaching for like gaining more clients and so yeah I'm kind of at the stage where I'm able to invest back in the business um so yeah it's really exciting I'm super excited that's amazing well first of all congrats it's huge what you've built and I want to know I have so many questions based off of what you've already shared so you your initial planting of seeds so to say was all done by a cold pitching yeah and so is it those relationships and contacts and nurturing that has continued to grow over time and or what else have you added to continue with your network?

4:50Louise Ryan:And then I know you said some of your clients are passing you their clients. So we'll talk about that. But separate from that, what exactly are these seeds that have continued to grow and how have you nurtured them? So, yeah, most, I'd say half of them are the cold pitching that I did in the beginning. and then I think I've I mean I've been working I could be better but I've been promoting myself a lot more that's come from like the coaching I've been um kind of establishing myself more on my LinkedIn and socials and that's really helped in terms of like um people coming to me um so I've had I've this year I think I've had three new clients um and they've been in a space a bit more of a premium space that was one of my strategies I wanted to get more premium clients so um so it's been working my strategies have been working um but yeah most of the half Half of them, sorry, have been those seeds that I really planted and they just kept nurturing, kept contact.

6:05And then, yeah, I seem some of it's kind of word of mouth as well. I seem to I seem to be lucky like that. People, they go other places and they take me with them. So that's happened a couple of times as well.

6:18Louise Ryan:People like leave a company and go. I see. Yeah, I kept the old company as well. So I stayed there. been quite good great yeah yeah and I think um because I've worked really hard on like really establishing myself with with my clients in terms of like making sure I'm definitely giving them exactly what they want and a little bit more I'm always kind of I've kind of become integrated as an arm of their team rather than just delivering the work and and walking away So I think they trust me and I'm adding that extra support that a lot of these businesses are missing at the moment with kind budgets and things like that.

7:04So, yeah, I've been working on the relationships this year.

7:08Louise Ryan:OK, cool. So with the cold pitching, you said about half the clients have come from that. Like, how have you, was it like you had sent these pitches and they said, like, maybe not right now, but maybe, and then you kept nurturing those relationships? Yeah, yeah, definitely. And what are you doing exactly to do that? So they say, like, maybe later, but not now. Then how do you get back in touch with them? Like, hey, just following up or, like, what are you saying in those follow ups? So some of them I, like, connected with on LinkedIn as well. and then kind of start interacting in that space with them um some of them there's one for example who I've been nurturing for maybe two years and they're quite um they're very very slow on getting back with things they say yes and then they kind of I don't hear from them and but I'm at the stage now where I'm actually I'm gonna do like a little bit of a project tiny little snippet of a project and be like this is what this is what I can do for you this is what it could be um and I feel like that could push it over the the next line um a little bit more because I'm I am finding with the market at the moment people are it's definitely in the relationships um I'm having to nurture because people are quite um wary or sometimes I feel like maybe they're lacking the insights of where freelancers can add value so I'm really happy to kind of show that um through their pits or examples um but yeah I'm just I'm just keeping enough keeping them there enough so that when something does come up um they come to me I'm the first person they come to kind of thing so um yeah and then you said one of your goals was landing more premium clients and you've gotten a couple of those when you say premium do you mean like the product is more in that luxury space or premium is in like the price of the project maybe both the um the product the product so um yeah I've been wanting to kind of tap into the like entry designer level I'd say um just for my um my kind of credibility really I've I have got elements of that through um my insights work I do I work with some really um high-end brands but the design side I wanted to get a bit more premium And also I want to have like an array of countries that I work with for manufacturing on my portfolio because that helps me as well.

10:06How the market's changing with all the tariffs and all that that's happening. So I've, yeah, it's quite important that I can shift in that way when things like that happen. so I've been quite strategic with things which I think has really helped me um just kind of plot

10:26Louise Ryan:it out but yeah so what have you like what strategically did you do to land those premium clients and then you said you went in on like an entry level designer capacity talk those are two very separate questions so first you can talk about what did you do strategically and intentionally to land those clients? I think just making myself more visible and marketing myself and having those discussions and kind of owning that space, making sure people know that I know what I'm talking about. I've had to like create content for those spaces, which is, I'm sure you know, it does take a lot of work and planning and stuff like that, but that is definitely helping me.

11:13and then really just like tailoring my work tailoring the research for those type of brands um for when I'm pitching to them uh because I I mean I feel like there's the industry is lacking creativity in certain areas so I've been kind of trying to tap into that I'm doing a lot of like I mean I do a lot of research anyway um just on like the market and trends and stuff like that but where I'm noticing gaps are that I'll reach out to those companies and kind of say hey I noticed you know you're kind of missing this have you thought about that or just kind of having those type of discussions or uh yeah so just kind of yeah so when you said like

12:08Louise Ryan:marketing yourself and making yourself more known and creating content around that is that linkedin and or instagram yeah it tends to be more linkedin just because there's more i find there's more industry people there um those the level of the levels within the industry that i'm trying to target like the heads of the the directors the owners um yeah i i favor that more it is it is my plan to mimic some of that from LinkedIn into Instagram I think that could be an easy fix but yeah it's just it just it's gone to the bottom of the pile that's why I need some help. I hear you and I will just say from personal experience people say repurposing content is so easy and I find it not that easy.

12:57Because I'm like I wrote this post because I you know I find that Instagram has to be so short and snappy whereas LinkedIn you can have a bit more depth and a bit more like question like open questions and engage it's quite it's easier for me to engage um so yeah plus I'm kind of bored of Instagram so I'm having to like reunite my love

13:21Louise Ryan:love for it yeah okay so creating intentional content on linkedin to market and validate yourself as knowledgeable in the luxury premium space yeah step one and then you're going and actually pitching these brands directly via email um some email some linkedin some some I've kind of got contacts like at trade shows and it's very much like I'll meet one person and they might work with a person who knows a person and I and then I kind of try and connect through that um or I ask my peers as well like do you know anyone that works at so and so um and there's always there always is someone somewhere you know somebody so um yeah I've been doing a lot of that so just kind of like planting the seeds in different ways um and just making myself going to like new trade shows or going to existing trade shows talking to like the uh the people who set those up trying to get my myself in front of those um discussions actually going to new york um with one of them to do like a print a trend presentation so just getting myself out there really and putting myself in front of those people who might like me hopefully and be insightful I love that well I find you very likable so I hope that they feel the same yeah um and then you mentioned something about like starting off with them in a entry-level designer capacity because you said you have the strength and the skill and the experience in the trend and insight space within luxury but not so much on the design did I hear that right so you kind of so I've I'm not I've been designing for like the last 20 years but it's I've it's kind of been more high street level I'd say um whereas my insights work I do like luxury performance brands sportswear brands big global brands um so part of my strategy was I wanted to start working with more premium brands on a design capacity because I wanted to use some of those insights to kind of like influence their ranges going back to my comment about the lack of creativity and like craftsmanship and stuff within people's ranges so I was I've kind of linked the two where I'm helping brands with those type of insights I wanted to put the practical side to use as well but I've been quite picky with those um because they they do take more time in terms of more design um work longer processes so um but yeah I wanted to have more a couple of more premium brands I like on my books because it helps as well when you know when you're picturing to people you can say I like the beast type of brands um they love it so yeah it's like shoe in they're like oh you know how to do this you get it yeah exactly exactly it's the kind of strategy but I also love product development like I love really designing into stuff so yeah I wanted to keep doing that so yeah that's amazing and then You said your clients are then sending their clients to you.

17:09Louise Ryan:How does that work? Can you talk about that structure? They're not giving me their clients, but as I'm building up their work, they're gaining more clients through kind of the work we're doing together. And then when they get new clients, they give them to me as well. So with some of like my trend work, I consult for them and they might give me like two of their clients to be their footwear expert and work on projects for them. But as they're building the work together with me and they're gaining more clients, they're then giving me the work. So it's been really good to kind of build those. They're quite strong relationships now, which has been I am their like footwear expert.

17:57So, yeah, I'm growing their business as well, which has been good.

18:04Louise Ryan:Okay, so this is like, for people listening and for my own clarity, this is what I think you're saying. So you work with brands on design development, and obviously you sometimes do trend for them as well. But in addition to that, you do a lot of trend and forecasting and insight work in the footwear space in general. And it sounds like you're working with some trend agencies, let's say WGSN as an example. And then as those agencies gain more brands as their clients, then you get connected with the brands as a client to work directly with a brand for their trend design development, what have you.

18:43Yes. Yeah. Yeah. As I help them grow their business through my work, they're gaining more clients. Yeah. And every time they gain a new client, that's a footwear client, they then give me the work. So I've actually like doubled my work with them this year. Yeah. That's amazing. Yeah. Yeah. It's right. It's been kind of like they keep just adding more days. And I'm like, yes, absolutely. So, yeah, that's been really great. because it's actually like as I want to grow my business is really exciting but it is really exciting when you're helping somebody else grow theirs as well um yeah I'm finding that quite rewarding as well so yeah how did because I don't think we talked about this on the first episode we did how did you um get into slash gain those trend clients because it feels like a different path than a brand so after I can't remember when it was it was

20:01maybe not just before COVID but maybe a year before COVID I actually I kind of was burnt out with the industry with the design I've been in I've been a designer for about 15 years maybe and I was really burnt out with uh the lifestyle I'm sure you hear this all the time I was always wanting to go freelance but um but I just didn't have the guts at that time um so I actually went to work for a trend agency and I helped them set up their footwear and accessories department because they were starting to um gain some footwear clients but they had no no one with any experience so I went and did that for a couple of years and then covid hit and i had a baby so that's when i was like my life has changed so much the world has changed so much i'm going to freelance and um i just pitched a competitor okay with wgsn and they were like yeah yeah absolutely so and then i started doing a little bit of work for them and then that grew and then i just pitched myself to some other trend agencies and said i am this I am the footwear um expert that basically everyone uses and they were like okay cool and then yeah it just kind of went from there I just sold myself as as that and it seemed to work wow that's amazing yeah yeah but I really kind of um I think because I'm such a nerd when it comes to like the product area um and I kind of don't ever stop looking at shoes or designing shoes I'm just constantly in that um that's kind of helped um build those relationships as well so yeah and I obviously the more work I get with them and the more people I can put on my cv or in my like pitch document like that kind of makes you more established in that area anyway so yeah yeah do any of those trend agencies because then they obviously know

22:24Louise Ryan:that you have worked or maybe even are still working with the other ones which arguably are competitors is there does that ever come up and then you're like doing trend for all these different trend agencies who are going after the same clients and all the things no not really because I mean at the moment I only work for one okay and that like I said they've doubled their work with me so I kind of don't have much capacity for anyone else but I only work on um like tailored projects so it's specific for that client that they have so it's completely different type of work oh you're not creating these broad sweeping trend reports okay no no no so one could be a performance brand um like a pure running brand and i'll do like all their product innovations or one could be um like uh i don't know like a kid's shoe brand it could be completely different completely different markets completely different products so it's yeah it's all bespoke tailored gotcha work yeah okay that makes a lot more sense then yeah yeah have you found because I know you're like you're like in two words a footwear well three words footwear consultant and designer yeah but like that is a big bucket and you just said you can do like athletic kids luxury um is um design wise I don't I stick to women's fashion I design why I don't I would never try and design um like a performance sneaker or anything like that okay with the insights work I do cross category okay yeah so I probably could try but I don't I don't want to design anything else but women sometimes we do a bit of men's but it's always fashion so okay yeah okay that makes a lot more sense then like from a high level you can approach some of the trend stuff with a specific strategy that more easily crosses over to the different categories and and genres versus the design components are so new I mean what goes into a running shoe yeah I wouldn't even I'm okay and I actually it actually doesn't interest me because it's so complex yeah but yeah that's why that's why I enjoy the insights so much because I'm working with teams of like uh cultural strategists data analytics like we all work together to create these kind of like insights for brands so it's all kind of yes really interesting and i i bring the like footwear knowledge um from a trend perspective but yeah i wouldn't design a sneaker okay gotcha yeah and then you mentioned earlier too like trying to get a more global presence So it sounds like, and you just commented on the, you bring the cultural presence into the trend report.

25:46So when you are working on these bespoke projects for a specific brand through the trend agency, you're considering, you wanted to get some more diversity and like not just designing for Europe or the US, but like other markets.

26:02Louise Ryan:Is that, did I hear that correct? yeah so that that's actually one of my strategies at the moment I'm trying to target the US um but yeah at the moment uh at the moment my design stuff is mainly UK based um but my insights work is is global so I work with global brands but um one of my strategies is I'd like to get a couple of US clients that are yeah solely for me yeah but yeah that's part that's why I need a business coach or something I need someone to help me plot out the strategy for the next five years yeah so currently I know you said you're at capacity with work what does that mean because I know you've mentioned a couple times um working day rates are you working day rates with most brands and they're just blocking x days or how does that work it's a mixture some summer day rates summer project rates project rates over um but some summer day rates so my goal is to get to project rates um yeah actually some some of my some of my day rates clients they are shifting to put the project way um there seems to be a little bit of resistance with some people but I've kind of been trying to twist their arm about that just easier for everyone um but yeah the full capacity is I just can't I can't do any more work I haven't got any more time I'm actually working like most weekends as well at the moment while I'm just kind of trying to um train some of the freelancers so then I don't want I need a bit more balance so um but I also don't want to turn work away so that's that's why like uh guidance in that area in terms of how to grow because I never actually thought um like you always want to grow your business but actually when you're at that really difficult to know what to do like it's quite hard to know how to grow it because you you don't really know what to do which is a bizarre it's a bizarre thing to say but yeah I just yeah it's a good place to be but I didn't think it would be as difficult to know what the next step should be um so yeah I'm quite excited and interested to see what happens next really yeah so what you said you've started working with some freelancers to start like what are some of the tasks that you're starting to outsource and then yeah go ahead mainly research because I find okay you know even if a client gives me their own research I always you kind of always need to do your own research as well to layer on or thread in I yeah and just being it's really important for me to like know everything new that's coming in everything that's happening like on every level of the market so I've been trying to continue to do that while working all the time but yeah I just need someone there researching in the background really just kind of like feeding that to you yeah and then I can I'll always lay on my own research in there but it can be a lot more I can just see where the gaps are and then I can fill them in rather than starting from scratch so yeah I've got two two freelancers at the moment doing about it's combined like three days a week quite a bit yeah yeah that is only at the moment because it's quite a busy time but I guess that will go in peaks um but yeah I'd like someone to kind of help with like marketing a little bit as well so I need I need to find someone to help with that so yeah yeah what have been like some of the growing pains with working actually I'm not even going to plant that seed I'm just going to say what have been some of the growing seeds growing pains with the growth that you've had so far so the beginning that I was kind of in denial denial about it because I kind of got myself into a bit of a catch-22 situation where I was just kind of having so much work and not having any time to even think about trying to change that that was just going round around around around thinking I'm kind of stuck and then I went through a period of being really scared of trying to find someone or give them any work because like I've had such well I've been working on my own for three nearly four years now and part of the reason I started freelancing was just because of some of the toxic environments that I was being being in and some of the like gross teams and people within the team so I started like kind of freaking out about that like what happens if I ask someone or like find someone in that they end up to be like crazy or oh gosh but yeah all these like that was kind of interesting that that kind of came came up um but then I just like yeah I kind of just looked back at some people that I'd worked with and enjoyed working with and luckily they had started freelance as well so uh that was good I kind of divvied out some of the work there but the briefs and the prepping them for the work and stuff is very time consuming so that's been uh you know like it's been it's it's been a bit painful in that way without being without it being their fault because it's just part of the process it's nothing to do with them it's more the time it takes to make sure that they really understand what they're doing um but that's natural you know that it takes a little bit of time um but yeah it's it's kind of uh I was putting that off I think because it's a lot

32:52of a lot of effort um but yeah it's something that I'm I feel almost like relieved like last week one of them did some work for me and I felt so relieved that I didn't even have to think about that task anymore so yeah yeah it was really nice it's a chunk it's a lot more work up front but when you get it working the relief does come yeah yeah and I'm like I'm quite excited because one of them she actually has only done a little bit of work in the industry but I can tell she's really enjoying it so that's really nice to see like you can you can quickly see who's going to be like willing to learn or start offering things to the table that because I can't you know I I can't have all the great ideas all the time that's just not it doesn't matter you need other people to bounce things off so I'm I'm quite excited to see what that can bring into the business as well like different mindsets different angles so yeah and then you mentioned

33:57Louise Ryan:so it sounds like it's going well with the two freelancers you have yeah yeah okay good yeah and And you mentioned wanting to bring someone in to help with marketing. Are you thinking like a social media person? Are you thinking like someone to kind of start finding and nurturing the leads and pitching? Like what do you think? Like in your shoes almost? Or what are you thinking? I'm not sure. I don't know. I really don't know. I don't know. um because i need to i feel like i need to do a bit more setting up of the freelancers i'll give it a few months with them because at the moment i'm not sure i could take anything else on still um but i yeah it's like that weird crossroads where um I think I want someone to help me with like leads and stuff but at the moment if that happened I wouldn't be ready so to take the work yeah yeah yeah yeah um and also it's really difficult with the marketing and stuff because it's so expensive I've actually done like quite a lot of like like studying around it like in my own time and it's so complex that you do I do just think I want to just pay someone to do this but it's just it's probably the most expensive part of the whole process in terms of and I feel like I kind of it needs to be refreshed a little bit like I just want to do things slightly different so I'm hoping I don't know I'm hoping I find someone along the way that says let's try this and we try and it works like LinkedIn posts sometimes I'm like oh this feels like it feels like the same recipe I'm doing um and yeah I just want to be mindful that I can catch because I've I've always kind of had a bit of an odd strategy of like I have this tiny little book that I write sometimes once a year I'll write one person's name in it a brand's name and it sometimes I'll write five different brands that I want to try and get um it depends on what's happening that year or who I think I want to work with and most of the time I get the brands that I've written in that book by thinking I need to I need to meet someone who knows that person that's how I'll do that or I'm just going to go direct to them I don't know how I make it up as I go along but I always just have a feeling and it's always seemed to work for me so I kind of want to do that with the strategy and the marketing as well yeah so yeah it sounds a bit crazy that but it has seemed to work for me yeah yeah so I'll ask you really candidly um is your goal to get more work and take on more clients with more capacity which you could do by creating a team and or is it to increase your own personal revenue for the time you're putting in or like what is the goal the goal is to be kind of like the go-to agency for footwear um and I've already kind of come to peace in my mind that my revenues my personal revenue is going to have to go down for that to um i'm gonna have to spend some money to invest in people um but i can't get any more revenue at the moment because i can't do any more work so it's something i have to do and i want to invest in things like the coaching the business coach i want to um i want to really like give it a really good go and i could easily just carry on as i am i'm making a very good salary but I can see that there's a gap and I want to yeah I want to fill it and I want to be part of that so yeah that's my goal the footwear agency is that on trend mostly and then design because your design is more specific to women's fashion or like what do you like okay i would i would like to step away from the design side a little bit and just have maybe a couple of clients that i do that for the really exciting ones um and focus more on the insights um but i would like a team i'd like somebody within the team who could still design so it would be um like a design and foresight consultancy agency um specifically for footwear because there there is no there is none at the moment there's no one who just does fitwear so that was my next question it just doesn't exist no no there was there was one maybe 20 years ago but they then they're no longer um but yeah there's yeah it's very much much apparel focused first with those type of agencies so um and footwear such a specific product area that needs kind of specialists working on it so yeah yeah that's the goal why do you think it's not being i mean it's such a huge market why do you think it's not being served in that capacity no i honestly don't know because it's like why do they make sneak they don't make sneakers for women they just make them and put them in pink they just it's something within the industry that's well I mean the industry is quite flawed in certain areas but um and and that's why I feel like it's now time for a bit of a change and a bit of a shake-up and a different approach to to the to the area um but yeah it's it's a it's a strange industry the footwear industry it's is yeah it can be quite backwards even though it can be super forward in technology and manufacturing and stuff like that so it's a tough it's a tough industry to work in especially if you're a woman but yeah things are going to change so yeah and I want to be part of that change so yeah yeah that's amazing um outside of the growing pains that you mentioned of like some of your fears around the toxicity of building a team and the upfront effort of offloading some of your workload.

40:48Louise Ryan:What have been some of the other challenges that you've faced during this period of huge growth and struggles? I guess the balance, finding the balance has been very, very difficult with having two young children. um and having that kind of like boundaries putting more boundaries in place um around work and sometimes saying no um yeah I think it's been quite a um a personal growth for me because I'm definitely an overachiever um I will always go above and beyond and do more than I should um yeah so it's been the coaching has really helped me with that I would it's more like counseling more like creative counseling I feel um and it's been quite eye opening as well some of the um like habits I'd got into just like you know maybe not having as much confidence or not not just like saying well done to myself like now I make sure that I yeah celebrate but if I've had a really good week or if somebody's given me a new client or I've gained a new client I make sure I really celebrate that rather than just thinking right what's next which I was doing before so yeah I feel like I've grown a lot myself as along with the business um yeah yeah it's been it's been a bit tough sometimes in terms of like uh trying to like look in rather than just being in it like having those check-in points of myself and I think that's another reason I would really like to grow a bit of a team I would like to have some more input on things because I am I don't want to get stuck in because I think we can get so stuck in within ourselves that you can kind of lose it as well like I always want to be uh bringing the freshest ideas and and you can't always do that on your own sometimes you have to have a little bit of help so totally yeah that's been quite a big mindset shift because I think I mentioned before I do have quite a big ego I like to you know perform I like to do well I like to make the money that's how I you know that's a reward of all the hard work but that is like the road to burnout so so yeah it's been like I feel like a road of it personally as well yeah that's amazing I feel like you and I have so many parallels yeah just as people and then also in business and stuff I see a lot of similarities with some of the stuff and like it sounds crazy but so so much of the work I've been doing on like my mindset for the business has actually helped in my like the way a parent or like the way I approach other things like I'm being able to take some of that into my personal life as well which has been really really interesting um so cool but yeah that's amazing well it has been phenomenal to see and hear about all of your growth and I'm really excited for this next stage we'll have to bring you on again in another year or two and see where you're at yeah I'd like I'd like to like when I kind of get the because I've got a concept I'm just kind of like I said I'm working with someone to kind of build a strategy like I'd love to speak about that when it's kind of in motion and yeah things are starting to happen to put that all together because I feel a little bit secretive about it at the moment because obviously no one no one's in that space so yeah but yeah I'm quite excited about what it could be so yeah well I'll be excited to hear about it when the time has come um of course where can everybody connect with you and find you online louise so i'd say linkedin is probably best um i'm actually getting a new website which is exciting as well um instagram i need to do a bit of work on that but it's a lot creative maybe if i had more followers i might still be on um but yeah linkedin i have quite a lot of chats on LinkedIn even from people who's still listening to the old episode they they message and say oh my god it's like really good to hear it like resonates so much with me like some of the things you're saying so that's really nice that's so cool I love hearing yeah well we'll link to all that in the show notes um and I'll end the interview with uh what I ask everybody at the end what is one thing people never ask you about being a freelance footwear designer uh that you wish they did um people never ask how long does it really take what part of it yeah well no just i guess i guess they just most people just think yeah if you're like creating product you just have all these ideas and you don't i don't think they ask they don't ask about the process they don't understand what goes into the process and uh yeah I think that's a real shame from every level even down to like the consumer really has no when they're purchasing they really don't know all the hands that products touched all the hours all the amendments all the tweaks all the fits everything so I'd love the world to know how long it takes because then we probably get paid well yeah maybe you have a few linkedin posts to think about with that oh yeah yeah definitely how many hours it goes into each shoe that'd be quite interesting i love that well thank you so much for taking the time um and coming on to chat with us it's been great to hear all these updates and all this growth from you louise we appreciate you sharing it all oh thank you so much for having me again Thank you.