How To Build A Brand World: Liv Koennecke, Maison Essentiele

0:01Liv Koennecke:This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome. You think you know a browser, but Gemini and Chrome, that's new. It can help you with practically anything on the web, like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50-page restoration block, or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks. Gemini and Chrome is here for it. Ready to make anything online make sense? There's no place like Chrome. Check responses set up required, compatibility and availability varies 18+. Welcome back to Female Founder World. I'm the host of the show, Jasmine Garnsworthy. Before we get in, I've got a little message from our sponsor.

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1:10Right now, if you switch to a paid OmniSend plan, they will migrate you over for free in five days. The show notes and use the code FFW35 to get 35 % off. Today I'm chatting with Liv. She's the founder of Maison Essential. Liv, welcome to the show. Have you been on before? I have, but it was a long time ago. Many, many changes in the business since then. But yeah, probably maybe five, six years ago. Okay. Let's get caught up on where you're at. We're friends, so I know what you're up to, but give the community an update on what you're doing, where you're at. I'm the founder and creative director of Maison Essential.

1:44We're a women's wear brand based here in Sydney, but very much with European sensibilities. When we last caught up though, I was still in my sleepwear era. Yeah. So for those that haven't heard that episode, because it was a while ago, I started the brand very much inspired by my grandmother's vintage sleepwear collection and our vintage shopping together that we used to do. And since then, the brand has, I guess, kind of evolved into now a fully ready to wear brand. I just had this memory. Do you remember when we were in Bondi having breakfast? Oh my God, yes. And that random guy came up to us.

2:20like a disproportionate amount. It was so strange. This is when we were first becoming friends. It was probably like six years ago. Yeah, it was a while ago. I think you were newly pregnant, but you hadn't told anyone yet. Oh, okay. Okay, so how old is that? Yeah, three and a half. Okay, yeah, maybe four years ago. Yeah, four years ago. And we were sitting there and this guy just like kept talking to us and he was what, like in his 50s or 60s? 60s. And he was like telling you he wanted to invest in the business. And we're like, okay. I sat there for like four hours speaking to him. Yes, and then I left and you stayed.

2:45And I was also like, I've been wanting to catch up with this girl for ages. Anyway, yeah, you're like, fine, I'll take the money. And then we looked it up later and he'd like basically nearly been to jail. No, he'd been to jail. He'd been to jail for fraud. We were like, how do we attract these people? We're just having breakfast in Bondi. Oh my gosh, honestly. Anyway, due diligence, people. But the audacity of that guy to like come up and have a conversation when he's literally a scam artist. I think he also butted into the conversation by trying to school you on New York property tax. Oh my gosh, shut up.

3:15That's right. And I was like, I think she knows the rules, doll. She owns property. Yes, I can't. I remember that. Yeah, the audacity. But things you do, you know. I was young and naive. You're like, overheard our conversation. But yeah, no, definitely do your due diligence. And I also would say, if you can, don't take money. Yeah, right. I think it was a different era when I first started the business. I was very much inspired by that kind of girl boss, you know, build that unicorn style business. and I don't know, as I've gotten older, I've really started to, obviously, we never did that, firstly.

3:49But secondly, I think it became so evident to me that it really would take away from, I think, like the life and soul of what we're trying to build. I had a number of really great conversations with like top, top venture capitalists and people that I really have admired in the industry. And although they were like, we love your brand, we love you, we love your business, we actually don't think it's in your best interest because it will always be about, you know, trying to get like, how do we make the product cheaper? How do we do it faster? I guess things that just weren't really, didn't really align with this type of brand that I wanted to build.

4:22And I think as well, as I've gotten older, I've also realized that I actually don't want to have a staff cohort of like a hundred people. Like we're at a really beautiful size now where I'm genuinely, you know, like quite good friends with all of our team. And we are, you know, able to be pretty agile in like what we do, our strategy. We take fun trips, we do all of these things, which I feel like I wouldn't be able to do if I was just basically glorified HR sitting in a room, like, you know, kind of meeting with different staff and not as across different areas of the business. Now that might change, but yeah, certainly where I'm at right now.

4:57And for anyone listening, definitely think about that if that's the type of business you want to build and where you want to be able to spend your time in the business as well. Yeah, I think that's such good advice. What have you done differently since we first met? So you've had a pivot in the product. You've opened your showroom as well in Sydney. What else has been going on? Yeah, so much. So I think when we first spoke, I had a very wholesale heavy business. So the business was, we launched just pre-COVID and very much in the sleepwear space. But I think as the brand grew, we really did start to, as I said, like kind of be able to design pieces that were definitely outside of the bedroom.

5:39But also with that, we had quite a large wholesale business. As I said, started before COVID. We therefore, everyone started really investing in what they're wearing at home. We were with Netter Porter. We were with Shopbop. We were with Bloomingdale's. And a lot of these relationships really lived within the sleepwear space. So for anyone, again, who's listening, if you are working with wholesale, you have different buyers per category. So the relationships we had with the sleep department, or the sleep or lounge or resort or holiday, we did not have with the ready-to-wear teams. So moving into that space meant not only moving into, I guess, a new category for us and our direct-to-consumer business, but also from a wholesale perspective.

6:24So we ended up parting ways with a lot of our major retailers and really, I guess, starting again and really focusing on building our direct-to-consumer and our community first, which has been, I think, probably the foundations of our business now for about three years. And although a scary decision, the best decision I've ever made. What's been working when you talk about community first and direct-to-consumer? What's been driving growth for you? Obviously, just building online and building that kind of brand community. And I think people do speak a lot about community, but for us, it's all about content and converting that into commerce.

6:59So we have not only our TikTok, obviously Instagram, we have a sub stack, we have our journal and we are constantly shooting, I guess, cool girls in our community who we call our Mason girls and very much, I guess, really kind of aligning with who we want to see like in Mason Essential and also their community as well. So I think for us, like it's something that we're always kind of, I guess, people always talk to us about is our content. I mean, for example, we recently just did a pop-up in Melbourne and that's another thing. We do a lot of kind of, I guess, community-based events. So not just focusing on like the influencer and media side of things, but also with our customer.

7:39Coming back to our pop-up we just did in Melbourne, I had a girl who had come in and we had plenty of these customers actually who'd come in. she specifically wanted to try on the Penny Lane jacket, which is our bestseller now for 24 weeks in a row. Sounds like the furry cuff. Correct. Yeah. But she had come in to try one on specifically because she saw the trip we did as a team in Paris last September. And, you know, she's like, I saw, you know, the content you did around that. And I really love the piece and I wanted to come in and try it on. And so I really do feel like there's that full circle moment between people actually really consuming our content and being on the journey with us.

8:17I guess kind of that converting then into that customer and commerce piece as well. I think you're such a good brand to look at for anyone who's a little bit confused about what it actually means to build a brand or they're feeling like their brand is getting a little bit diluted, which I think happens as you grow. But you've actually, like as the business has grown, you've actually become more clear about the brand piece and you're really good at that. And the way that obviously you visually show it, like your, you know, your fonts and your brand book and all the things are obviously like very locked in.

8:43Yes. But also the people that you align with, the other brands, the spaces that you align with, all of that, I think, is just such a good example of how the people that you partner with, like whether it's creators or customers you highlight or whatever, like they become your brand and how they can kind of, if you're not sure what the brand stands for or how people are perceiving it, look at who you're sending yourself like adjacent to in your content because that's how people perceive the brand. and find people that embody what you want to embody and just include them in your content and your 100 and that's something that we always talk about is like we obviously want to meet our customer where she's spending her time so not only I guess what she's wearing but like where is she eating what's she listening to where's she traveling to and how can we meet her in those moments so our city guides for example we do with our community is like you know Amsterdam or Melbourne or Japan and like, where are you eating?

9:41What are you listening to? Like what playlists, et cetera. We have a Spotify channel where we do like little playlists and things for every event. We have a playlist that we do that then you can listen to at home after the event. So all those kind of touch points, I think is something that really is part of that Mason essential universe we're trying to build and something that I think is, yeah, really kind of the backbone of the brand in the business. I think to your point, just really thinking about what other things is your customer doing. And that's easy for us because I think we are her, but you know, if you have a different brand, yeah, what else is your customer buying?

10:18Where are they, where are they traveling to? Where are they eating? All those things I think are like really great ways to try and look at those brand adjacencies in terms of like, you know, brand partnerships or collaborations or what have you. Can we talk about just a little bit of a brainstorm? Because I feel like a lot lot of people come through female founder world saying that they want to launch fashion brands and it's so funny I feel like if you've been in a space for a while building business you can kind of say I can talk you into it or I can talk about like which way are we going here because I can give you both perspectives yeah absolutely and I just want to like this is a kind of the kind of conversation that we have all the time just on whatsapp and I want to know if you were going to start something else right now you had the experience from the current business but you didn't have the current business for whatever reason.

11:05Sure. What would you do? What's an area where you're like, oh, God, this seems like – and I do think that it's usually a knee-jerk reaction, right, to be like I just want the opposite of what was hard about – and you don't really think about what was good about what you were doing. Yeah, totally. I – oh, my gosh, that's such a – I don't know how to ask that question politically but I feel like what I would say to people when they talk to me about wanting to start a brand. Everyone's like, I want to start a brand, but I'm scared. And I'm kind of like, I think you probably should be. You're not scared enough.

11:38You're not scared enough. And maybe that was, maybe that's the power of that kind of, you know, like entrepreneurial spirit is that you really are like quite naive, but it does really take five times longer and 10 times more like capital than you think it will. And of course there's like an element of luck to it, but really it's just about that grit. You know, I think people really thought that when I started a business and a brand that I was just like living my best luck's life. But like, there's so many things behind the scenes that go on that is really hard work. So I think, you know, if that is something that is of interest to you, you just really have to have like such a unshakable belief in yourself and what you're building that you don't mind if you don't make a lot of money from at the beginning or if you have to work really long hours and if not then maybe it's about being like entrepreneurial but inside and a company that supports that type of a vibe.

12:38Are we even doing like service-based I think as well like oh yeah yeah oh yeah I actually spoke to my friend this morning about this so it's funny you asked me this question my friend Emily um Emily Morello she has a sub stack called the rich cream which is this beauty sub stack that's like one of the best in Australia at the moment. And I was saying, you know, if I had my time again, like service-based business is so, I guess, appealing because you don't have a lot of your money stuck in stock. Yes. It's like money comes in, money goes in pocket. Totally. But then also it's difficult to scale because you are the business in terms of like, it is your time and you would know all about that.

13:14So I don't really think there is a good or a bad way to do business or way to choose. And I don't know which one I would do if I had my time again, but I do feel like you just need to really understand, I guess, what it does actually take and all of the things behind the scenes. I want to talk about how people are consuming and talking about founder-based content. Do you have an opinion on it? Yeah. But have you spoken about this already? Like not today. What do you mean by that? Well, have you seen how people are like shitting on founder-based content? I mean, like, I think it just depends on the day of what my algorithm is.

13:56I feel like my algorithm some days is like, this is the only thing you should be doing. And then on the other end, it's saying, absolutely don't be doing this. Yeah, for sure. Where are you sitting? How are you feeling? Because we're doing like a challenge around this right now. Yeah, I'll tell you. Okay, give me. So I feel like I've seen a lot of things recently around founder-based content and how, you know, the era of founder-based content is dead, et cetera. and I just think it's really interesting because why does everyone always firstly have an opinion on like female founders and how they run their businesses because I feel like if this was anybody else it wouldn't necessarily be the case or always under the spotlight but secondly I think it's also just again about meeting your customer like where they're spending their time and I think the people that are talking about not wanting to do founder-based content are actually the ones that are unsure on how and where to meet their customer.

14:46And that is scary to them because I think that if you know that you're not, everything's going to work for you and your business, whether that be on TikTok, whether that be a sub stack, that might not be something that would resonate both with you as a founder and also your customer, but it might be a monthly newsletter that you do on email. It might be a how to wear it PDF that you can download. It might be, you might not even have your own social media channels. It might be about where you're, it might be about putting your face and brand on your existing brand channels. I think there's so many ways that founder-based content can be done and not everyone is right for each business, but our founder-based content is probably some of our best converting content, both with engagement and also sales.

15:42And I would probably prefer if it wasn't, but at the same time, I understand and respect that people do like seeing the behind the scenes. I don't think that means that you need to go in and talk about like an issue that you're having or someone that's copied you or something negative, because believe me, there are so many things I've been so tempted to talk about in that space. But I think it's also about mostly just being able to, I guess, provide that extra value. And that's really all your customer wants is just how can I wear this? How can I create this? How can I put this in my food? What have you?

16:17And what better person to talk about that than the person that is so passionate about it because they created it? Yeah, I absolutely agree. I also think when you think about what is the difference or the superpower that you have as a founder-led brand versus any other corporation that you're competing with. And it's literally that you probably have solved a problem or some kind of like scratched an itch that you have in your own life. Totally. And created a brand around it. So you should be the one that is sharing that. Totally. Great. I would love to have like 10 in-house creators that are doing all of our content.

16:46And then maybe we could be like sheer lux for fashion. You know what I mean? Like whatever. That would be beautiful. Yes, absolutely. That's not where we're at. It's not where we're at. And it's not where a lot of small businesses are at or small to medium sized businesses. So I think that being able to, you know, really, I guess, create that extra value and show face in whatever way that looks like for you is a really commendable thing and something that your customers or our customers always really enjoy. So I think, you know, just because it's quote unquote founder led content doesn't mean you need to be doing a dance on TikTok.

17:20But, you know, I think being able to create that additional content and that additional value is absolutely in your best interest and in your customer's best interest as well. I also think like it doesn't necessarily have to be business advice. Like it can be something that is fully product related or brand related. It doesn't have to be something that is like you sharing your business wins. Something I've been noticing as well. I'm wondering if you guys have been doing this. Everyone is using artists and doing artist collaborations and a lot of illustration in their design. And I'm interested if that's something you guys are doing as well.

17:50Have you always done that? Well, yeah, we definitely do a lot of things that are a bit more out of the box in terms of how we create our content. And that also comes down to, I think, you know, just seeing cool things and wanting to create something that's a little bit different. And that's something we always talk about at Mason Central HQ is like, how can we make this more Mason-coded? And we get a lot of that inspiration from travel. Recently, we did a flip book. It was actually inspired by a fragrance brand in Paris and there was a line to get in. And while you were lining up, they gave you a little flip book with all the different fragrances on each page that you could smell.

18:29So it was quite, I guess, sensory and something to kind of, it was quite engaging while you were waiting in the line. And I thought this was a really great idea. So we did a little kind of bookmark size lookbook for our spring summer collection with just a little pin in the top so you could like fan them out. and I think like little things like that you know it wasn't expensive to do it was just something different it was inspired by a completely different I guess space and industry but it really is those like little additional moments we had them in the showroom we sent them out to some of our VIPs and people love just being able to touch and feel and like look through things like that so I think you know as well if you're building a consumer-based brand those little touch points people love and really enjoy.

19:17How are you working with influencers right now? Are you working Do you pay influencers? What are you doing? Never or just not right now? No, never. We don't pay influencers and that's not because I don't respect and admire what they do. It's just more that we really have created quite an organic based community. If you like our product, you're more than welcome to have some of our product and talk about it with your consumers if it's something that you might have already been wanting to buy. but I think the minute you start paying influencers for us anyway is creating a bit more of like this false economy of how people are actually going to wear our pieces so are you actually interested in our brand and our product or are you actually just wanting to be paid like for that so again this is obviously quite like a taboo subject and I understand that there's absolutely a space for that.

20:09And like, you know, the creator economy is huge, but for us, it's more like cool girls in our kind of scope or in our, in our space, in our community. And you know, if this is something that you're already going to buy, like we'd love to give you one and you can just talk about it organically. We never do briefs in terms of how we expect you to post that content or how we expect you to, I guess, yeah, share or tag or what have you. It's more just like for social love. Are you on ShopMy or LTK or anything like that? Not at the moment, but it is something that we're looking into, especially. It makes sense to you.

20:41Yeah, we are organically. So if you go on like Shop My, I have an account, you can see a lot of people have pinned Maize and Essential, just, I guess, part of their, yeah, just overall curation of pieces. But for us, we haven't set it up just yet. Liv, do you have a recommendation for us to end the show? I think my biggest recommendation is just all around having a really strong routine. And I think this is something I've talked about previously, but having a really strong personal routine and being able to build that resilience is, in my opinion, the number one thing that you need when building a business.

21:17So I think, you know, if that for you, if that looks like meditation, if that looks like going for a walk, if that looks like making sure you hang out with friends and carving some time out for fun and yourself, I would say that would be my biggest recommendation is just making sure you have a really strong routine. because at the end of the day, being in business is a long-term game and you need to be able to show up for your brand, for your customers, for your staff really consistently. So that would probably be my biggest. We work from home two days a week and I always encourage my staff to make sure you go outside whilst the sun is out.

21:54Like touch grass, get some fresh hair. I am not about paying for a seat warmer, just working nine to five. I would way rather they get out for that like full hour and just go for a swim, go for a walk, do whatever they can, go get your nails done and come back just a much better version of you. I love. Well, Liv, it's been awesome watching you build and I can't wait to see what you guys do next. Thank you. Thank you for having me.