How to Get Influencers to Pay Attention to Your Brand

0:00Hey, business besties. Before we get into the show today, I have a quick reminder for you because we are less than five weeks out from the big end of year female founder world summit. This is happening on the 2nd of November in New York City and we are just honestly pretty flat out behind the scenes. We're filling this 35 ,000 square foot space with hundreds of people who can change the trajectory of your business and of your life. We have the most incredible speakers and I'm going to just reel off a couple of them. I've got the founder of Beauty Blender who's going to teach you how she built that iconic, iconic company.

0:37The founder of Gia, Mega Babe, Love Wellness, Hyper Skin, Chill House, so many more amazing speakers. And we've also carved out these really intentional spaces for you like the Money Lounge, which is a space for you to learn about all things funding and financing your business, but also about personal finance, how to build assets and build your wealth as an entrepreneurial woman. I think this is a conversation that we are not having enough. We have some incredible guides and mentors in that space who'll be available to meet and chat with you. We have Annie Evans from Dream Ventures and Kelly Arena from Golden Ventures who'll be in that space ready to meet and chat with you, as well as more really helpful, incredible people who, like I said, want to chat with you about what it means to build wealth, build your assets as an entrepreneurial woman.

1:29If you don't have a ticket yet, now is time. Like I said, less than five weeks to go. this is when the tickets really just start flying off the shelves. So if you've been thinking about it, just, you know, click the link in the show notes, go and secure your ticket. I don't want you to miss out. This is our biggest and best event of the year. And I cannot wait to see you all in New York City on the 2nd of November. Hey, business besties. Welcome back to the Female Founder World podcast. I'm Jasmine. I am the host of the show. I'm the person behind Female Founder World. And today I'm chatting with one of the other women behind Female Founder world we have Natalie Abbot-Marco.

2:05How are you doing Nat? I'm doing great. You are now entering Female Founder World with your host Jasmine Grinsworthy. So Nat works on I mean you do like everything but we're a media business so you do a lot of our content you work in partnerships and you're also an influencer. I am kind of by accident too. How did you build your following? I've never asked you this. Yeah. I mean, it's kind of a basic story, unfortunately. Nothing too crazy. But I will say it kind of snowballed during COVID. Of course, TikTok had just started. And I kind of hopped on the dancing trends. Really embarrassing. You can go back and scroll and watch me do really cringy dances.

2:47But I grew up as a dancer. So I was like, oh, finally, something for me. So that's how things began. But once I moved to New York City after graduating college was kind of when I started to capitalize on it, do more partnerships, New York City lifestyle stuff. I was working in fashion at the time. So I would cover things about career and that's when things started to take off. Love that. Yeah. Okay. So we're going to talk today about influencer marketing. And I think it's really interesting to talk about this from the perspective of someone who is receiving lots of pitches from brands. You are working with brands and then you also work in partnerships and female founder world as well.

3:23You're obviously learning from all the brands are doing on the other side within the community and so I just thought he would be a great person to have a chat with about what Brian should be doing and what they shouldn't be doing and how to stand out because we hear constantly from founders who are doing interesting things like hey yeah we started doing influencer gifting and we did influencer partnerships and that's what helped us take off but then on the other side Brian's in the group chat are like okay cool I'm DMing all these influences and no one's responding to me and I don't have budget to work with an agency so how do I actually do this the first thing I want to ask you about is our reach which I think is the thing where a lot of people get stuck it's like that initial making contact and getting seen a lot of people their first question is can I DM a creator it seems a little bit informal coming from a traditional PR standpoint that's like the last thing you would anticipate but from a creator point of view, I think that is totally okay.

4:22The main thing you should be focusing on is how you are DMing someone. I think the most important part about sending a DM through the brand account is to maintain that voice. So your branding is really important. Your product should be really important if you're a CPG brand. But every brand that I've loved working with has maintained that really strong voice. So you would know exactly how a say beauty would reach out to you. They're talking to their customer or a creator in that same voice all the time so that's a dm that would stand out to me i think dms can be a little informal that's totally okay i just think that they should get to the point and they should be short and sweet yeah and do you think that it's better to send it from like the brand account should it come from a personal account good question i think that the brand account is always a good rule of thumb, especially I'm not a lawyer, but I think legal from a legal perspective too, I think it could get messy if you're having girls on your team reach out.

5:21I've been in that position where I've been an intern and had to reach out to people from my personal Instagram. And I don't know, I just think it can get a little messy. And then let's say you leave the business or no matter what, maybe you're not with a company anymore, then you're tied to these people and it just creates a little bit of a mess. So I think great to just reach out from the the brand itself. Okay. And then what should you actually put in that message? You said, keep it short and sweet, but like what kind of stuff, how do I make sure that somebody actually responds to it? Yeah. So I think it really depends on what your end goal is.

5:50If you're wanting to just send product to an influencer, that's a totally different ball game than asking someone to come to an event or asking someone for a paid partnership or huge collaboration. So I think if you're looking for something a little bit more than gifting, it's totally okay to hop in and ask for their email and take it to email. I think if you're just asking for their address to send them a little product, totally fine to keep it short and sweet. Hey, we love your content. We wanted to send you X, Y, Z. Let us know your best address. Be sure to include no strings attached because if you don't, then the creator may assume that they have to post in exchange for this.

6:27And that's again, where things can get messy and you don't want to deal with that. Okay. So let's say we do move to email what are some of those things that you should include in the email when you're sending a more formal outreach the first thing that I always tell brands is make sure you address the person you're reaching out to by their name also this just goes for every email absolutely yeah absolutely especially if you're a founder of any sort I think it is so imperative that you reach out and you find their first name maybe their handle is skin by Natalie or skin by Jasmine But then you should reach out to them by hey Jasmine, not hey Skin by Jasmine.

7:06That's weird. Just treat people how you want to be treated. And I think that I get a lot of DMs with my handle, which I think is a little weird. Yeah, it feels spammy. I just assume if I get an email that's like my Instagram handle, I assume it's a mass outreach bot situation. And it usually is. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. First rule of thumb. The subject should be something enticing. That's something you could go on chat GBT and play around with. really if you're that stuck. I also think it's really important in the body to link your brand somewhere. There'll be brands that are just starting out and they're introducing their brand to me, but they don't have their website, their Instagram, anything.

7:44So I'm like, what even is your product? What's your voice? Who are you? I don't even know. And occasionally I'll go and I'll research because I'm just very curious as a person, but I know tons of people who would just delete it. Yeah. So that, and then lastly, be clear on what you're looking for. Are you looking to just gift again? Are you just looking to make a connection? Are you looking to get coffee? Are you looking to invite them to an event? If it's a collaboration, are you paying or are you looking for something in exchange? I think just be very clear. And I think people tend to shy away from getting to the point when creators don't have a lot of time to sift through the logistics and being straight up is helpful and it's totally fine.

8:26Okay. So let's talk about the specifics a little bit. Different structures of partnerships and usage, because I, something I hear a lot is like maybe brands that were coming up 2018, 2019, and they say we gifted a lot of micro influencers and then they all posted and then we got heaps of, that's how we got traction. I'm curious about whether that's still an approach where if someone reaches out to you with a gifted product, do you post it? Great question. When I first started out and I would get a package, I would post YouTube, Instagram, TikTok. I was so excited and I had no obligations to do that.

9:07And especially if I loved it too. But even if I didn't, I would sometimes post it. So that was where I was at when I was first starting because I was just looking to gain traction and make content just for funsies. I wasn't trying to monetize. then fast forward a couple years and especially now I will really try to stick to my morals and post things that I really love yeah and those things tend to do really well because my audience knows you know that's something she really loves or there are certain things for example I have this MZ Wallace little mini micro Sutton bag it's called and my friends my family I've gotten everyone to buy this bag so people know that when I post about this bag they're like but that's the Natalie Bagg.

9:50That's an example of something that I've been posting about for years. So it takes time, but I do see a lot of seeding happening. And we've talked about the FOMO effect. If you see a bunch of people posting stories about this amazing gifting they've gotten, you can't help but think, okay, what is this blush? Maybe I should give it a go. I feel like Rode does a really great job with that. We've talked about that a thousand times. And I don't know. I think it's such a tricky space and it moves so quickly but I think it really just depends on the brand and I know that's not a concrete answer but we've definitely had people on the podcast who have said we spent this amount of money on seeding influencers or we've worked on this really expensive campaign and it just hasn't had a good ROI yeah how do you know it's hard you don't know yeah that's interesting to know though I think it's I think you're right like it can come down to the product if it's something that people that it already has a bit of like buzz and cult status and like something where you're like really excited to get it then they're probably more likely to post think about what I would or if I had some kind of relationship with the brand already or the founder or something I'd be more likely to post if it wasn't paid but otherwise like yeah especially you and also being an editor they go through the same thing yeah so for people who don't know I worked as a fashion beauty editor for 10 years before I started female founder bold so you can imagine like the sheer like volume of products that was coming through it was so much it actually makes me feel sick to think how much product was wasted but we had the difference was like we worked in an office where there was an editorial team but then there was like partnerships HR admin finance and so we'd get all this product and we'd have a beauty closet like the beauty editor would take the thing that they wanted to sample and then everything else went to other people on the team so we would have sometimes they would do beauty sales and you would pay a dollar for a product it would raise money for a charity or like on a Friday we would just put out the product and anyone could come choose what they wanted and so it wasn't wasted but now when stuff is getting they don't do that anymore no now stuff is like being delivered to my house and it actually feels like really maybe it's because I have a baby and I live in an apartment but it feels like violating to get these like big boxes with all this stuff in it that I haven't agreed to receiving because I'm on a list and when it gets sent without my permission and I'm like now you've given me the job of figuring out what to do with this shit that I don't want and I know that sounds really ungrateful but I don't want to be responsible for wasting all this product but I don't know people with who need all of this product it's sad yeah I do I do have that guilt sometimes and I I don't want to be ungrateful but I just recently moved to a building where I have someone dealing with the packages and I used to just show up at my doorstep so now I feel this like judgment yeah and I was like hey just so you know I'm not ordering these things and I'm like take whatever you want and but there's no office yeah so do you like it do you like it when brands reach out first to get opt-in for gifting or is it still okay to receive stuff?

13:00I like to be reached out to first. Yeah. Okay. Because also living in New York City, I can't tell you how many times I've gotten a package lost. Yeah. So if I don't know it's coming and then they're like, hey, where's the post? I'm like, I don't even know you were sending me. Totally. Yeah. So then the ball's in their court and they're wasting money ultimately. Okay, business besties. I want to just pause for a second. I've got Natalie here on the Female Founder World team and I want to ask, Nat, are you ready for the holidays? Honestly, no. And I feel like it's coming up so quickly. It's coming up so quickly.

13:29And that's why I wanted to take a second to chat about this season's presenting sponsor, Vistaprint. It's honestly the best place to start holiday shopping. And right now, Vistaprint is giving all female Founderboard listeners an early holiday gift, up to 50 % off holiday cards, wall calendars, and more. Oh, wow. 50 % is a pretty good deal. How do you even have time though for all this holiday shopping. I know, honestly, like I'm usually pretty disorganized, but I've been quite on it this year. And we've also been sending out these really cute thank you packs to different founders who have been on the podcast, speakers who have been at the events.

14:07We've printed really cute, like little fleece blankets. We have embroidered caps and also stuff for my family as well, because you know, everyone's going to be wearing the female founder world merch. Oh, of course you got to bring the family into it. And I personally love a branded tote bag, but I also didn't know that they did embroidery. That's pretty cool. The embroidered caps are particularly cute. Oh, I love that. Highly recommend. So everyone, go and get your holiday shopping buttoned up with up to 50 % off custom holiday cards, wall calendars, and more at vistaprint.com. Use the code HOLIDAY50 at checkout.

14:41Okay, let's get back into the show. I will say one rule of thumb that, or just one trick that may be helpful is make your gifting stand out if you have the budget because for example I was recently on an apartment hunt and a lot of my content was surrounding that I love these videos oh thank you it was so much fun and I they were doing really well because I think I organically was having a great time hair away which makes the pots and pans they had sent me a pan and they were like we just want to give you a pan we love your apartment videos that to me was so thoughtful And I this pan is in like a ton of my videos.

15:17It's always in the background. That was really thoughtful and strategic. And maybe they're sending out a ton of them. I don't know what their strategy is, but someone handpicked me and that was really strategic. For example, if you are a new mom, something along those lines that is relevant to you, that's going to resonate more than if you're just seeding a ton of influencers. I see girls and guys I see influencers of all kinds getting PR that I would love to have and I know that they don't care about it yeah and I'm like oh you know I just don't think that it's as strategic as it could be sometimes a hundred percent I think like just knowing the creator and that honestly just means that you or someone in your team has to be like very online because how else are you going to know all of these different people like what their life stage is what they're interested in but that's actually the job and that's what sets the stuff apart Something that I really liked, I post about my sister a lot.

16:13Like I'm really close with my sister. She is not an influencer. She does not have a media company. But we have the same clothes size. We have really similar tastes. We both have little boys. And sometimes a brand will reach out and they'll say, oh, something for you and your sister. And if someone offers to like, because I often will give my sister the things that I'm gifted because I know that she likes it. and even if I really like it, I'll just give it to her because I'm like, I have so much stuff. Let's spread the love a little bit. But if a brand reaches out and they know that and I'll post us both in it.

16:44And I'm definitely way more likely. I'll give you extra content. A hundred percent. A hundred percent. Like I don't even really do paid branded content on my own account unless it's like a female founder world brand partner that I want to give extra love to. But if someone does that, I'll post you on my feed. Yeah, as you should. And that's, yeah, it's hard to find someone who can find those people, but they're out there. when I was working in the PR space, that's what I was doing. I was like, okay, what's like a pinpoint? What's an emotional ethos that I can latch onto that will make them want to work with us?

17:15Yes. What's the emotional entry point to connect their, your product with the content they're creating? I think that's totally it. Rather than just being like, you're a cute girl, here's a blush. They want, everyone wants to feel special. Yeah. A hundred percent. Okay. So I want to talk a little bit more about the different types of usage. We started talking about this. So we mentioned there's the non-obligatory gifting, which is when somebody reaches out, which is probably the way I think that maybe gifting should be at the moment. If you're reaching out to someone who has any kind of following, unless you've got a really expensive product, it's hard to reach out and say, I'm going to send you this free thing, but then post about it.

17:50Is it more understood that if you're getting a product gifted without any payment behind it, you don't have to post? in my opinion yeah i think gifting if there are no strings attached you do not have to post yeah brands don't do a great job and if you're a founder listening to this please be careful and be up front and concrete about whether this is you know you're expecting an exchange yeah because that can be confusing for a creator also there are so many brands who are not doing this well i think it's really easy to go that extra 10 and totally knock it out of the park at this i think it's really good news for brands yeah and don't be shy if you want something in exchange ask yeah they say no okay whatever back to the drawing board but there are a lot of creators that will say okay sure fine i'll post whatever um usage then gets a little tricky but we'll get there okay so what are the other so then there's obligatory gifting what's that basically you're giving a gift in exchange for content that can mean an instagram reel a photo story and then the usage again like another conversation but you are giving someone something in exchange for a piece of content and then there are two ways to look at paid partnerships there's paid partnerships for your feed and then there's paid partnerships for UGC yeah people get this super mixed up the easiest way to explain is a paid partnership for the creator's feed is something that they create and they post on their feed with the hopes that their followers will see it and it will drive sales to you.

19:24The opposite of that, or should I say the other branch of that would be UGC content. And this is user generated content. And this is when a content creator makes a piece of content, a video, a photo, whatever it may be. And it does not live on their page. It could, but usually it is sent to the brand and they decide what they do with it. So maybe you run it as an ad or maybe you posted on your social pages as a brand. And then the content creator is compensated for that. Okay, interesting. And then I want to talk about usage a little bit. You've mentioned this. So this is complicated. I feel like there are a lot of things to cover here, but give us a bit of insight into the types of usage.

20:05No, that's not even the right way to say it. Give us like some insight into the things to consider when you're negotiating usage with a creator. Yes. Okay. Usage is so tricky and I have had, you know, many mistakes, issues. I've learned a lot. And it just, just to clarify, like it literally refers to the content that's created where and for how long can it be shared? Yes, exactly. Nailed it. So usage again can really vary, but let's say a good rule of thumb would be if you're a brand and you're asking a content creator for their UGC video and you're going to run it as an ad, the usage would be, okay, we're going to run this ad for three months and that's the usage term.

20:52So it could be 90 days. It could be a year. It could be in perpetuity, which I will say, if you're a content creator and you're listening to this, make sure you remember that word perpetuity, because I have just ignored that when the contract looked really good and the money looked good. And I was like, Like, OK, they're going to use it. I don't know really when or where or how, but I need the money. And so that's that. I will tell you your face. God forbid you end up being the next like Kim Kardashian. Your face may be on like every ad that this makeup brand has forever and it's no longer yours.

21:31It's in their hands. So, yeah, usage can be really tricky. We could do like a whole thing on that, but it's really just how long they are able to use your content for. Interesting. And if do they have to do brands, should we be explicitly calling out that we're using it in paid ads? Yeah. So when I am completing a contract or going back and forth with someone, I will usually ask, will this be in paid ads? Yeah. Because if they're pushing money behind a paid ad, you could be on a billboard for all. You know, you could be, you know, those targeted ads on Instagram. You could be in one of those that come up nonstop and you're like, oh, I thought I was just going to be posted on their Instagram.

22:11Those are two totally different things. So, yeah, I mean, I always ask. I think that's really important. Okay, I want to talk about money. Like if someone is doing a, they're going the paid route and they want you to post something in feed, what are the different kind of budgets brands should be looking at for different kinds of usage or different kinds of content? That's a good question. It's so hard because every content creator is so different. I would say if you are balling on a bit of a budget, go for a small creator that has pretty good engagement that you see long term growth in. I will say a lot of brands early on that I worked with kind of invested in me.

22:49They were like, we'll give you this product in exchange and that's that. And then it spiraled into paid partnerships. So they took a chance because they saw growth in me and they thought, OK, this girl is fun to work with and we have a good relationship. So I would think like it's OK to take a chance on smaller creators if you see growth in the long run. Personally, I love following really small creators like I trust them more. Yeah. I'll run and buy whatever they tell me to if I think that they resonate with my lifestyle and my needs. But it's really hard to say from a budget standpoint. I will say for usage, though, I charge a percentage of the rate monthly.

23:27And that will vary between what the usage looks like. Interesting. And when I say the percentage, a lot of brands are like shocked by that. But I think it's not really fair to say, OK, we're going to pay you$50 every month or$300 every month because it just depends. Yeah, that's really interesting and really clever. One thing I'm interested in is figuring out how to find creators. And I don't know, maybe it's just being very online. I'm not sure. But is there anyone that you're following that you're like, oh, this is like a really interesting creator in my space who I think is like up and coming.

24:03So many. The brands should check out. So many, Jasmine. Should we open up your phone and see who you're following? Yeah. Wait, where's my phone? I actually have so I came from the entertainment industry so I had a folder on my Instagram called up and coming because part of my job was to find I didn't work in the influencer world at the time it was more like celebrity yeah so it was more like okay who's in the next HBO yeah shower whatever but yeah there are like a ton of people that I follow that I absolutely love and I'm gonna be kicking myself after this because I'm gonna be like I forgot about this we should do something we should do something in the group chat that's like more on this I think yeah I agree I will say I love following creators from Spain fashion really yeah like I think that they have incredible fashion that's just really biased because I just love their style yeah but I think seeing how they live their life is so intriguing to me I know what it's like to live in New York City so the New York City creators I'm like boring yeah and I'm friends with them we're all like doing the same stuff so I love following creators who are doing things like that.

25:08Do you have any advice on how to find people or find new people? I find people in really unique ways. I think people tagged. I feel like I find a lot of people from fashion stuff which is ironic because I don't really put out a ton of fashion content. I also like to follow people who are just funny. I love comedy. I would way rather partner with a creator who is funny than someone who is super chic or cool yeah I just think I don't know in terms of what resonates with me I get really fatigued by just aesthetic content on the internet like I just want to see someone funny and real I think that's why and clever that's why I love it I love creating content is because most of my content is funny and silly and you are funny now I try it's funny because you're funny when I first started I was strictly doing like very serious chic fashion stuff because I was in the fashion luxury space I just that's what I was surrounded by I felt so when I was drinking in office I can't be funny yeah I'm not funny you like have to take yourself really seriously and I'm not serious so it was very hard in case we haven't figured that one out yeah very serious fashion influencer I love it okay wait I got a couple really good ones right okay so these are like up-and-coming creators you think brands should know about yeah I'm just gonna shout out a couple that have come to mind while I've put you very much on the spot on this podcast.

26:31And please don't come for me because I have a trillion that I really love and I think are just going to be so amazing. We also have a spreadsheet which you can download. It's the UGC creator list. So it's UGC creators, not necessarily people who post on their feeds or influencers, but some of them are. Okay, so fashion, I absolutely love. Kenzia Cook I think she's a London girl a bigger influencer same with Rita Montezuma she might be from Portugal just like incredible style and they're just so aesthetic another but then these are people that I've probably found on TikTok that I just enjoy watching I won't ever skip a video yeah great outfits but also just like good personalities and I think that they're going to be big Abby Catlin we chatted on DMs before seems like a lovely girl I think she's doing incredible things and she is like again I find people who are in like groups of friends there's this girl Lauren Crane who is so cute and adorable I just want to give her like the biggest hug virtually on TikTok also an incredible style but she's more of a tomboy California girl love Kelly Grace May I feel like a lot of people listening to this probably know her she is more of a personality girl amazing style but she's just hysterical but also speaks from the heart she really feels her feelings and she's had a lot of insane things happen throughout her life and she just shares it all online and it's so captivating taylor mitchell again really aesthetic but i just i love her content bridget campbell i think an la girl she's so classy just really classy style she just quit her nine to five to pursue content and she's starting to gain traction because she's just been posting like okay i quit my job here's how it's going I'm like I wish I did that when I quit my job but I was too scared yeah so she's doing that for us and then Sam's score she's another California girl really aesthetic she's also a female entrepreneur so I love watching her build her business she has a co-working space in San Diego and she literally is like putting in the couches cleaning doing it all by herself and she also has a job and she has another San Diego network community where people she runs events I don't know how she does it it's crazy Piper Phillips she started off doing career advice originally and she also quit her nine-to-five and now has been like soul searching a bit and she's New York City based I love how invested you are with all these women yeah I also know a lot of them so I am like you like so invested Piper and I are really close friends so I have to give that disclaimer but she's one of those people I met at an event and now we go to all the events together I will say to another one that's up and coming on TikTok is this girl Rachel Lovely I think I wish that were my last name yeah lovely she's so funny and she doesn't have a lot of followers I will never skip a video of hers she's hilarious okay I'm gonna make sure all of these folks are in our UDC creator list which is free to download I think it's a free download or is it just for Business Bestie members.

29:44I don't know, but I'm going to link it in the show notes so that you can check it out and that all of these women are linked for you. Nat, anything else you want to add before we close out about do's and don'ts, final learnings, takeaways for anyone who wants to get into influencer marketing? I will say if you have time, writing a handwritten note is always very nice. That's a nice idea. I love a handwritten note too. All right. Thanks so much, Nat. This has been fun. I hope you guys learned something. I just wanted to jump in and end the show with a quick Thank you and shout out to all of our paid Business Besties subscribers.

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