She's Building the Next Big Influencer Marketing Agency

0:00Hey, business besties. Before we get into the show today, I have a quick reminder for you because we are less than five weeks out from the big end of year female founder. World Summit. This is happening on the 2nd of November in New York City. We're filling this 35 ,000 square foot space with hundreds of people who can change the trajectory of your business and of your life. We have the most incredible speakers and I'm going to just reel off a couple of them. I've got the founder of Beauty Blender who's going to teach you how she built that iconic, iconic company, the founder of Gia, Mega Babe, Love Wellness, Hyper Skin, Chill House, so many more amazing speakers.

0:40If you've been thinking about it, just click the link in the show notes. Go and secure your ticket. I don't want you to miss out. This is our biggest and best event of the year, and I cannot wait to see you all in New York City on the 2nd of November. Hey, business besties. Welcome back to the Female Founder World podcast. I'm Jasmine, the host of the show, and the person behind all things Female Founder World. Today, I'm chatting with Shaina Davis-Ross, the founder of Ponte Firm, a talent management company that's focused on social media influences. Shaina, welcome to the show. You are now entering Female Founder World with your host, Jasmine Garnsworthy.

1:16Thank you for having me. For people that don't know your business, what are you guys building? I'm the founder and CEO of Ponte Firm. We're a talent management strategy firm. We work with clients all across all different verticals of business and platforms. Amazing. And you started in 2019. Talk me through the story that led you to starting your own business. Yeah. For many years, I worked for other companies and I was primarily in PR and social media when social media was relatively still a new, I guess, career choice. It wasn't really something they were teaching in school. It also was like everybody was on Facebook and everyone was just still trying to figure out Instagram.

1:58And I started there. I was really fascinated by it. As it was growing, I got an opportunity to start consulting. And from there, I started taking on other opportunities to start consulting. So it became a bit of a snowball effect. And eventually I realized that being on my own, you always had to focus on pitching new business. if you were in that area. Most of these jobs were a few months at a time to solve a problem, but you weren't really like permanently there by, it wasn't like a year long gig. It was really like three to six months rotating. And so I think it was very volatile. And so I decided that I wanted to start really focusing on pitching a lot of new business, but also grow a team to be able to sustain the existing business.

2:43So I wasn't always winding up like at the end of a gig, wondering what I was doing next. And I always figured it out, but it was something that at the time was very volatile and stressful. Okay. That's really interesting. I know that when you started your business, you were really focused on micro influencers, but now you're working with really huge talent. Why did you make that shift? So we first started with micro influencers and I think that we primarily were referral based. With time, we just started getting the attention of larger creators once they saw what we were doing. And also, I feel like we really came into it from an angle where we were like, we are focused on strategy.

3:22And we also were focused on sales, which happened to be pitching from my PR background, that's all you did. So ultimately, I felt like that was a bit different than how things were set up at the time, where it was just basically very reactive on the inbound. And I felt like there was a big area missing about about creating storytelling and creating the strategy based on like the brands you really wanted to work with. Maybe you do need to reach out to them and make it happen because some of these brands, it's like everyone wants to work with them, whether it's like a Dior. And so you have to be proactive about what you really want and show examples about all the great things you're doing to support the brand without being paid.

4:00And so I think that a lot of that over time, we just started attracting larger talent. And I also think that they were watching how we were growing talent who were smaller, who became much larger, such as Kit Keenan, who at the time we started working together, I think she was at a 30K followers. And now she's much larger and she's also moved into these different other ventures of business. And so we've worked together for probably close to five years now. We really trust each other, but that's a relationship that's been really built over time. And you see the trajectory that's created. I want to make sure that we're all speaking the same language when we talk about macro or micro or even nano influences.

4:44What are the different tiers just for people who maybe are a little bit newer to this and not sure how you actually categorize all of those different influences? Absolutely. I always say micro is like 100K and under. And macro, I usually look at like that middle spot of even say everything between 100K to a million. I think traditionally people are like 250 to 700 or something like that. But I usually refer to that middle areas. Macro and then mega is usually 1 million and above. Got it. Yeah. Interesting. Okay. So I want to know, it's been five years now you're working with 100 clients how have you seen this influencer marketing space shift yeah the space has changed quite a lot over the past few years I mean there's been different platforms there's been different trends you know I feel like there's been a lot of talent who it's like they blow up for a minute and they go away I think that like when I when we started working with talent at Ponte Firm, a lot of it really came down to brand awareness.

5:52There wasn't as many tracking capabilities as there are now to really track conversion. Now, most of the conversations that we do have, like touch on conversion, touch on sales and touch on metrics, much more than before. When Instagram, it was more about the follower count. Now, it's a lot more about the engagement. And that's where we feel like a lot more people are focused because it doesn't matter if you have 5 million followers if only 100 people are liking your photos. It's really about eyeballs at the end of the day. So we'd much rather work with talent where it's like they have 100K followers and 50 ,000 likes because that's crazy.

6:30So I think that it really, and that's what brands look for as well. That's interesting. How do you think talking about brands and your work, you've worked with some really incredible brands, like you've mentioned a few of them, but when somebody comes to you and they want to work with an influencer, they want to put together some sort of campaign. What are some of those best practices, the ingredients that you think are key to have in a campaign to make it or a partnership to make it successful? Yeah, absolutely. Ultimately, it's important for the brand to really know what they're asking for. I think usually things fall under a few different buckets, which could be like content conversion or brand awareness.

7:12Sometimes it could be two of the three or all of them. And so usually we'll start and ask a brand what their goals are. When we work with them on campaigns, they're usually casting under multiple buckets for the same campaign. It doesn't mean everybody on the campaign has to convert. They might want to just work with someone for their content or because they just know they're very trendy and cool, regardless if they convert. And so we really try to speak with brands and the agencies that represent the brands in terms of what their goals are, because we want to make sure we're on the same page and that we provide the best recommendations for what they're looking for.

7:46And that's usually what it comes down to. And then we'll make a few different recommendations based on that. So if a brand, let's say we've got a bunch of brands in the community who are really trying to DIY this stuff right now. And I want to make sure that we're like giving them something that if they're going out, they're doing their first influencer campaign, or maybe they've done some kind of partnership in the past and it didn't work. And they're like, I don't want to do influencer marketing again and they're trying to rethink this and figure out okay what's actually going to move the needle here if it's somebody who is looking for that okay I want to drive conversions like what what should they be looking for what should they be asking an influencer when they're through the outreach and like briefing process to make sure that's the outcome that they get yeah I think that the most that they can be transparent with what their expectations are I also think that brands really need to like work with talent who say they like their content and they know what they're going to get.

8:44I think that it sounds very straightforward, but there's a lot of brands who choose to work with creators because their competitor is working with a creator or just because they see something and then they're not super familiar with their content. And so they can't really, you know, maybe they have a different expectation for what it's going to look like, but the creator is going to create what's normal for them and what works for them. And I think that sometimes brands can try and get a little bit too granular with their briefs or what they're expecting, but they really need to allow them to be able to do their typical process.

9:20Otherwise, it just won't perform the same. What actually goes into a brief from a brand to talent? Okay, business besties. I want to just pause for a second. I've got Natalie here on the Female Founder World team. And I want to ask, Nat, are you ready for the holidays? Honestly, no. And I feel like it's coming up so quickly. It's coming up so quickly. And that's why I wanted to take a second to chat about this season's presenting sponsor, Vistaprint. It's honestly the best place to start holiday shopping. And right now, Vistaprint is giving all Female Founder World listeners an early holiday gift, up to 50 % off holiday cards, wall calendars, and more.

10:00Oh, wow. 50 % is a pretty, pretty good deal. How do you even have time though for all this holiday shopping? I know, honestly, like I, I'm usually pretty disorganized, but I've been quite on it this year. And we've also been sending out these really cute thank you packs to different founders who have been on the podcast, speakers who have been at the events. We've printed really cute, like little fleece blankets. We have embroidered caps and also stuff for my family as well because you know everyone's going to be wearing the female founder world merch oh of course you got to bring the family into it and i i personally love a branded tote bag but i also didn't know that they did embroidery that's pretty cool the embroidered caps are particularly cute oh i love that highly recommend so everyone go and get your holiday shopping buttoned up with up to 50 off custom holiday cards wall calendars and more at vistaprint.com.

10:50Use the code HOLIDAY50 at checkout. Okay, let's get back into the show. Yeah, what typically goes into a brief, it usually could be like how long it is, what the talking points are, what the do's and don'ts are, how to speak to the product. And I think how to speak to the product really varies also based on what kind of product you're talking about. For example, if you were to talk about a prescription or something in the pharmaceutical space, you're going to have a lot more specific red tape about how you talk about what the product does versus if you're going to talk about maybe like a beauty product that is just like a lip gloss or something where you could talk more freely about what you're feeling or how it makes your lips feel, et cetera.

11:37And so I think that ultimately all of those things go into a brief, but at the same time, we always say that it has to be like mutual and we both have to sign off on it. For example, we have clients who do a lot of, say, it's a recipe and a brand's like you have to, or say skincare is actually a really good example. They'll be like, you have to say the product in the first three seconds of the video. And you're like, but what if they start the video normally a very different way where they're like, hi, I'm Shayna, let's get ready with me. That's already say two to three seconds in the video. I don't think that everybody wants to start a video by being like, hey, this is the product and hold it up like that.

12:16So I think it's something where there has to be some sort of sign off and understanding a little bit more about how the creator is going to introduce the product into their content. When people are thinking about working with micro versus those bigger influences, is there like a ballpark budget that people need to have set aside to do this well and work with people that actually will build that brand awareness, will add that brand cachet or convert? because I'm sure like people come through and want a lowball and then you're not going to get the time for that. Yes. I would say that the interesting thing about the influencer social space is that there's not like a standardized format.

12:58And I guess it's not like this everywhere where you have some sort of outline that like every company follows every creator. And I think this is where it goes into the follower count and the engagement. It used to be just based on, hey, if you have a million followers, this is what you charge versus now, it's also based on engagement. And if you have really killer engagement, you could hit some of those rates at a much lower following. And yeah, I'd say that like for, say, it's like the macro or micro creators, you're usually typically looking at, say, 5k and under, right? Maybe six, depending on who they are or seven.

13:38The middle area is very, it fluctuates a lot. You can wind up where it's like you're doing six to seven, but for the most part, it's usually in the teens. So the bulk of it will be between that eight to 15 range. And then usually when you go above the a million area, or even say like when you're creeping up there, like the 800 and above or 700 and above, It really depends, even 500. But it all really depends on the engagement factor or the relevancy factor. That's when you're touching the 20s, the 30s, the 40s, the 50s. And that's where you get into that area. So if a brand is to come to someone, a talent of ours who has a million followers, I'm like, here's 5K.

14:24There's no way that we can make that happen. And so at that point, we'll usually just say, listen, this is out of range from this person's budget. We'd be happy to make suggestions based on what's within your budget and your needs, but this just isn't going to work for them. Yeah. I'm so interested in your advice around partnerships and negotiation. Just listening to you talk, it sounds like you do this day in and day out and you're just an absolute pro at it. For people who are, I don't know, like partnerships, negotiating, that applies to so many different parts of business, whether people are working with retailers or suppliers or working with talent and influencers like with you, what are some of the things that you've learned over your career about how to get what you want and what you need out of a partnership negotiation?

15:20Yeah, a lot of it. It's one of those things where you have to be able to find the middle ground and be able to really understand how to turn something that might not necessarily be exactly what you want into something that's digestible to the talent. I think a lot of it is a push and pull or mediating essentially between two different parties to try and make them come together. It's really about being good at being direct and setting expectations. Ultimately, as in my position, I know very well what certain clients will and won't take. And that's what their managers are responsible for knowing what they will and won't take.

15:56They also know what brands they'll make exceptions for. And so I think that it's just really about how to work with the different levers that you could flex with to make something work. And so, for example, we had a brand recently that has worked with a creator of ours that loves working with them over many years. And they wanted them to be a part of this campaign they had launching in Sephora. And they wanted them to give two years of usage, website, email, commercial, all of these things. Naturally, for something like that, you're talking. You're in the six figures alone for usage. And so I think given what their budget, we had to pull the different levers of being like, we have to adjust the usage expectations.

16:44We have to create it to be on a monthly basis instead of just being all up front. And so if you guys want to keep using their usage over months, you can make that decision. But we can't just offer this off the bat no matter what, just simply because it's just not covering the rate and they might have another opportunity. And if you're not going to meet them at what we're asking for, we have to make this something where we're keeping her open to accept something that is remotely competitive in the future and not locking her down for something that is potentially going to keep her from accepting something that would be a lot more money.

17:19So I think it's all about how to give the clients what they need right now, while also giving them the option to keep doing it in the future. But yeah, I think every situation is relatively different. It's really about being able to see how you can package something that is resembling what they want, but it isn't always exactly what they want. I think it's very unusual that we'll get an offer from a brand where it will meet all of the different tickets that we need to match and the creator will accept it. It's much more typical for us to get something and then start chipping away at different aspects of it and doing other things like raising the budget, but removing something else, talking to them about what their priorities are just so that they get something that resembles it, makes them happy, makes our client happy so that they can work together.

18:11And it could be a great partnership rather than either party feeling like it's not really a hundred percent. Super, super interesting. I really loved that example there. And I'd love to know if you have any other little examples or case studies or things that we can pull from your experience of working with all of these brands, all of these influencers about some of the things that are just working really well in this space right now that maybe people won't have thought about. Because I know that the reason how I found out about your agency is through our team who are in this space. One of our team members is a content creator herself as well.

18:46And she has a big following on TikTok. And she was like, these are the guys, like they know exactly what's going on. If you're going to speak to anyone about influencer marketing, it needs to be this group. And so I want to know what's working out there. What are you seeing working for the brands and your clients? Well, it's really sweet. I always love to hear that. I feel like ultimately, we have a big referral business. I feel like our clients really love referring their friends and we do work with a lot of them across the board, which I think has created a really great sense of community. What's really working right now, there's various things.

19:23I would say we're really getting excited by the collaborative product kind of area. Ultimately, there's a lot of talent who are excited to start their own company. Say, for example, they want to launch something. But we see a lot of value in partnering with existing brands. So maybe do something that is a different colorway or something like that, where it could be similar to maybe what they're already creating like a brand's fan base and what they really love, but put our talent spin on it. And so I think also finding really fun ways, even it could be simple, but Audrey Peters is one of our clients.

19:58And I feel like it's pretty funny that someone just brought this up to me last year. We say that we made it the year of the, I don't know if I could say the full word, but Pornstar Martini, where, you know, it was on a menu at American Bar. It was everyone talked about, She worked with one of the liquors that was within one of the, or within the martini to really make it relevant. And this year she's really focused on working with St. Germain to make it like the summer of the Hugo Spritz. And so I think it's, that's a great, interesting way even to put a spin on it where it could be an item on a menu.

20:30It doesn't even need to be a product. So I think that it's stuff like that where we get very excited by unique, really fun, timely ideas that are a little bit out of the box. And a brand that really trusts us, like in this case, St. Germain, to really move with what we see as like momentum and an opportunity. And they've worked with her over these past few months on it. And I don't even think people realized it until now. And I think that it's been a really great example of a brand who's really allowed a career to do something that is a little bit out of the box and make it really fun and timely for them, while also like running an actual traditional talent campaign.

21:08So it doesn't always have to be so like typical where it's like, this is my product and I'm going to apply. It could be a little bit more unique and tailored to the actual person. We have another talent, Hannah Chodi, who has taken off for this like Tom Ford eyeshadow series that she does. And we are going to be working with another makeup brand on creating a very custom eyeshadow with her. So I think that's an example too, something that came out of that. she had so much demand for the series and for the products that I think it's a really good example of that. So smart. I want to know how you're building your own business because this is a lot of growth in five years.

21:48What does your team set up look like now to manage something like this? Yeah. So currently we have a team of about 10. We're all in office in Austin, actually. Everyone always thinks we're in New York or LA, but we're in Austin. And I feel like over years, the teams look different. It's been a lot of scaling, but very, I would say thoughtfully, because ultimately, I've worked with almost every creator we have on our roster at some point as their direct point person. And so I think that in bringing people onto the team, I think there is a level of like trust and really working with them to understand what it is to be a manager at Ponte.

22:27Because I think that could look very differently at a manager somewhere else. And so for us, I think it's really about keeping that very personalized attention, working with them on like their strategy, working with them to pitch their ideas and like really come through, make those come through for them, really being transparent in the communication. And, you know, always, you know, talking about the future. I think that ultimately, it's been really exciting to see the team grow and support each other. The way that it currently works now is that every talent at Ponte has at least two people on their team.

23:04We usually split it up between people who are focused on new business pitching talent managers, and then the operations team, which is very focused on their existing business and everything from like the job booking to execution. And so both of those things are split up across two people who work always on the same talent across each other. And so that's been a way that talent can always be assured that we're not just getting them the awesome job or really going through this whole process with them of an existing opportunity, but that we're also already focused on the next thing. And I think that's been something that's really excited clients that we've spoken to since it's not something that they've always had.

23:50So interesting. It's something that I think about a lot. Like I'm in this point now just with Female Founder World as the business grows and the team grows where I'm looking ahead and thinking, what is my life going to look like in a few years as the person who's like leading this thing? And is that something that I even, is that something that I even want as things get like more hectic, more complicated and really trying to like intentionally do that now that we're now that growth isn't the thing that I'm stressing about all the time that's coming really organically I'm how much and where and what do we prioritize and what does that literally mean for me what does your life look like now versus a couple of years ago when you were in the early stages of building this totally different better or worse tell me the truth I think it's something that entrepreneurship is like really glorified And I think it's something where everyone wants to be their own boss, but it's very challenging.

24:47And I think that's something as well that not everyone realizes off the bat, because I think it is very glamorized. And so I would say from when I started a few years ago, the business has grown and therefore like my actual like responsibilities have grown. It never actually becomes less over time. And I think that's the impression is, oh, the more people you have, like, then you can pass stuff off. No. I'm learning this. I'm letting this. Things come up. Yeah. So it's like us realize that, you know, if you could clone yourself, you would, but then you would probably have a bunch of other stuff to do.

25:26So I think it's something where as the team has grown, I mean, my, I would say like, I am pulled in so many different directions. and I've gotten so many new jobs. Essentially based on that, because you're like managing more people and then you're talking to them about all the talent they're managing. And then I think that like, you have to do that across the board. And then you think about office expenses. What are you going to do next? What is like the future of the business? And you think of all of these things. And as you hire more people, you think of even more. And so I think that it's one of those things where my role has really evolved I feel like I continue to really grow and learn new things every single day.

26:08And I think that's part of being in this position. I also feel like you have to constantly adapt and get used to it. You're never like not learning because I think something that maybe worked for me two years ago wouldn't work for me now. And so I think you always have to be open to the fact that you're going to be learning new stuff and having to relearn stuff you already thought you knew how to do just to do it in different ways. And so, yeah, I think it's always a challenge. I think it's gotten better. The business is doing incredible. I'm very happy with all of our clients. I love the team.

26:43I think they're fantastic. I think that we've grown so much. And so I'm very proud of what we've built and what we continue to build and offer. Yeah, I mean, I'd say back then working with five clients, it was nowhere near as crazy. And I think that it's a very, I feel like I'm in a really good position currently. I think that ultimately the second that you're having more stuff come in, then maybe like you need to reach back out. It's a really great sign. But I always say to the people on the team is no matter how much opportunities come our way, no matter what, you're still like, I'm very huge on the outreach.

27:21Just simply because it could all go away. It really could all go away. And I'll never forget sitting at my email, like when I'm starting the company and seeing my inbox at zero and just sending emails constantly being like, can someone just, I get excited to have 10 emails in my inbox in the morning. And now I probably have three to 500 every time I open every morning. So it's like, it's a very, yeah, it's like a very different volume play, but I feel like in a very privileged position to even have that because I know what it was like to not have that. Yeah. Yeah. I'm constantly like just shocked by the level of personal just growth and development that this has required of me personally.