Tezza Barton Started An App to Pay Her Rent And Now It Makes $26.5 Million A Year

0:00Hey, business besties. Welcome back to the Female Founder World Podcast. I'm Jasmine Gansworthy. I'm the host of the show. I'm the person behind all things Female Founder World. And today I'm chatting with Tezza Barton, the founder of Tezza App, serial entrepreneur, creator. Tezza, welcome to the show. Thanks for having me. For people that don't know you and what you're building, tell us a little bit about your story. I'm the founder of the Tezza App, which is a photo and video editing platform for the artists and everyone. People often come on the show and I ask them to share some milestones and they get a bit like humble and it's not the space.

0:33And so I'm going to share some of them for you. Okay, perfect. That's great. So in terms of revenue last year, your business brought in 26.5 million in sales. You're fully bootstrapped, which is incredible. You've got a team of about 15 and your app has had 25 million downloads. That's incredible. Thank you. It's been fun. How did you get started with the app? We can go all the way back. I am a photographer. I went to school for photography. I was just really obsessed with storytelling and doing something different. I was in photography school when Instagram came out and I just saw this interest in photo taking.

1:10Whereas like all my friends are at school. We're like, this is so annoying. Everyone thinks they're photographers. I was like, no, this is really cool. Like people are going to care in a way they never have before. And so I made it kind of part of my mission to champion those people and be like a safe space to come and be inspired and learn how to edit and, and work with brands. So I did everything from like teaching photography courses to selling Lightroom presets and like kind of catering to that pro photographer to writing a book called Insta style, which was about taking photos and working with brands and all of those things.

1:44I like, I guess to take it even a step further back, I grew up in this family that was just full of artists, but not just artists, like entrepreneurs, There was people that were doing their craft really well and making money. And I remember, you know, people would always say, what do you want to do when you grow up? And you're like, I want to be a musician or a photographer. This was kind of everyone in my family. We would talk in this way. And people were like, yeah, but what do you really want to do? How are you going to make money? Like, it was kind of that starving artist era before. I feel like now we're in such an amazing space where that narrative is changing a bit.

2:15But I just felt like, you know, once I got older, I realized, wow, that was really unique to grow up in a place that celebrated creativity. And so I wanted to give that to other people. And it became my mission. Like, I really do truly believe everyone is artistic and has, like, a creative bone in their body. Even though when people say that, they don't. It really pains me. And I was like, no, I'm going to change that narrative. So through launching different products and doing other things, I really, my husband and I moved to New York for no reason other than we just had to be there. We just loved it.

2:48And he was a developer. I was a photographer. and we were still kind of speaking to this space and this community of people about, you know, photography, creativity. Instagram was really starting to take off and we thought maybe we could make this process easier for everybody. There were a ton of other tools out there at the time. This is like 2017, 2018? Yeah, like it was building. Like, I mean, I think we started building the app in 2016. Okay. So it took a long time because it was just the two of us building it. All the other tools out there were very techie. You could tell they were built by like a bunch of dudes.

3:21There was no, nothing coming from that creator's perspective, nothing speaking to the females that were crushing it in the space. I felt like, oh my gosh, advertising's changed forever. Like these women were taking over the internet and I needed a product that was speaking to them and supporting them and felt as fun as the act of creating. I felt like everything else was a tool, but I'm like, how can I bring brand and something different to the space? So it was really just like a concept where like, can we build an app? My husband and I would just like tinker for hours and hours every night. And then the app was born and we launched in 2018.

3:54Wow. Something that I love about your story is, you know, I was doing my research before the show. And I read that one of the reasons why you kind of like wanted to have this side hustle or business or start something is that you're living in New York. You're trying to meet rent and you're like, what can we sell? And what can we like, what can we put out in the world to meet rent? and then now you look at the success that you've had and it's just really cool to draw the dots back and look at that that origin story and how far that how far you've actually come but I also know that there were some things that didn't work out like you launched some stuff totally didn't go still things not working out girl but like no I feel like that yeah we were just constantly trying things everything from we launched many different little clothing brand things that were a flop to our first product was a collage kit um which was a series of um art prints you could hang on your wall and create like a work of art and it was really um such a good learning experience we still actually sell this product yeah today so it's kind of fun that it's come full circle um but in the beginning it was just we had such an amazing response to it people like this is amazing but sales didn't just take off it was kind of like cool okay we launched and we were doing this out of our tiny apartment and how are we going to do this?

5:08And then it just really taught me how many times somebody needs to see something before they're actually going to want to buy it because there was just, I mean, even more so now, but like this was, you know, eight, 10 years, how long ago was that? I don't know. I guess like seven years ago. Um, but we just, I learned so much. Like even if your product isn't working, doesn't mean it's not a good idea. Like you really have to figure out how to market it. Who's, who's going to connect with it and how they're going to talk about it for you. And I think that we took that knowledge and use that when launching the app, like we had been cultivating this community of people that were just as obsessed with, you know, taking photos and creating content as we were.

5:49And then it really helped when we launched, we had like immediate success and immediate like community of people championing the product and, and doing the work for us. And so I think if you can like focus on your community and how they're going to use this product and love it and need it every single day, like that will do more than like spending a bunch of money on ads in the beginning. Can you tell me a little, I want to keep talking about this. That's really interesting what you just said about just because, you know, if the products, if it's not selling, if it's not working, it doesn't actually mean that you've got the wrong product.

6:18Maybe it's just your approach of marketing it or finding community. Can you talk a little bit more about that? I'm really curious about like the specific things that you did to find those people. Totally. I think, you know, in the beginning I had, it was kind of early days, but you know i had a small following define small um i want to say i had like 200 000 followers 100 000 okay so now you've got like 1.2 million or something yeah but like i think some people think you have to have some big following or yeah or i mean i think people would think i can i have a following i'm going to launch a product people are going to buy it and it's not always just like that yeah we've seen lots of like influencer brands kind of flow yeah yeah and i think like Like you just have to understand like, you know, the app for me, I was like an expert at photography.

7:03So I could talk about it till I was blue in the face. And it was like that people felt that they understood that that's why there's been such like an affinity for the product. With the collage kits, yes, I could show it, but that wasn't enough. And this was like pre-Instagram stories. Like I don't even think Instagram stories. You know, there was just no way to like, you weren't talking about your product all the time. It was like you could only communicate through a photo and a caption. um shown in chronological order probably yeah definitely like all these things and so finally once it started getting into like the right hands of certain people and they started posting it and talking about it I just saw oh like sales started happening and I just didn't even think about like how many people had to see it over and over and in different ways to really feel connected to the product and once we started doing that and it was even like a younger audience that I was like outgrowing the product once we finally launched it because you know you kind of like go through phases of life and if it's not like connected to your personal self you have to figure out how you're like speaking to that community so yeah there was a lot of that and just like the amount of times you have to post in a day it was I mean I was posting three times a day wow okay so that's what you were doing in the beginning what's the approach now to find users for the app and to build community find customers what are you doing lots of different things you know we we finally do run ads.

8:22I mean, we didn't run ads for the first four and a half years of the business, which was, I just didn't need to, didn't need to. We really had this organic engine that was working and, you know, kind of when something's working, you don't want to mess it up. Yeah. This is what's working. Like, let's just keep our heads down. Let's focus on this. And it really did. I think people felt so connected to it. We opened up the conversation. It was like, what do you guys want? what do you guys need? How can we make this the best editing place for you as a creator? And so they would give us feedback and we would build it.

8:55It just felt very like a relationship in that way and still does. So I think that definitely helped. But now we honestly treat it like, and we have done this also from the beginning, but now we've just ramped this part up. We don't think of ourselves like tech sometimes. We're like, we do the opposite. Let's think of ourselves like a beauty brand or a fashion brand we do drops every single month we create experiences around them whether that's events or photo shoots or video shoots or things that you can like really connect to and feel like an experience from and that inspires you to want to go create again because I think sometimes like we're not just like a tool here of course you're going to go do it but how can we build a world around creativity and like inspiration yeah I think you do that so well this feeling there's a real tangible like feeling associated with the app and with the brand that you don't get with like a visco or something like I don't feel like it carries across and I think a big part of that is you as the person that's like building this and like quite forward-facing I guess for the business as well I'm curious about how you building your personal brand as this I guess like I want to say creative genius but that sounds like kooky or something but you get what I mean by that are you building a personal brand in that way is this like artist has helped build the business and how if you like intentionally think about that or if you're just sharing what you love no I definitely intentionally think about that I definitely there you know I think when we first launched for sure I was the driving force behind the reason people were downloading the app and trying to use it I remember during COVID when TikTok was like having its moment and I posted a TikTok about the app and how I created it and why.

10:39And it went like ballistically viral. And the amount of comments of people saying, well, I didn't realize Tezza was a person. Like I love this app. I've used it for years. And for me, that was like, yes, like we've like outgrown the person, which was always the goal and still is like now the app's Instagram is way bigger than mine and has way better engagement. And I'm so grateful. I'm here to just be also the customer. Like that's why I think being somebody that uses it and needs it every day for my career helps me make a really good product. You said something before that is like still playing in my head about at some point in your business you can like outgrow your customer or you can outgrow the product because a lot of the time we're building things for a certain stage of life a certain like maybe pain point that we experience and then part of growth is that you are no longer experiencing that.

11:28How do you think about that and how do you like stay close to the people that are still using the product? Totally. I think that's such a good point because when you've been in business for so many years, things change, you change all of that. You have babies and then all of a sudden it's like, I can't keep up. I don't want to take a photo of myself anymore, whatever it is. I think like coming up with your mission and knowing your why is so important and that's seems probably kind of obvious, but for me, like going back to the reason I even started this in the beginning was to really help everyone discover their inner artist and feel creative and so that will always exist beyond if I need to feel that anymore yeah um and that is the most rewarding part and why we do what we do and I feel like there will always be I can see a world where I can always be fulfilling that need whether it's the current Instagram TikTok situation and then I see like a world in 10 years that I'm trying to build for and and people that I'm trying to help create.

12:28So some of that I'm keeping close to my heart because I'm trying to, but I do feel like there's just, we're always going to have a need to create. I think people are afraid of AI or they're afraid of these platforms that are no longer supporting them or whatever it is, but I don't think creativity is going to go away. I think it's just going to be almost enhanced. We're going to be doing it in an even bigger capacity. Because if you think about, like I was saying, when I first launched Tezza, all people did was post photos. There was nothing else you didn't post videos you didn't do stories you didn't do youtube tiktok this you know so like now i feel like how can we service creating on all these platforms and and also how can we really create actual community around creativity and i think that i know the world i'm trying to build for that that's really interesting yeah i think about when people say ai is going to take over creativity because ai is like you know it's thinking making decisions it is creative i guess in some way um but i think what that totally removes from the process is actually like creativity is the antidote personally for me of anxiety and it's one of those things where if i'm not physically creating something through my work or whatever my day like that's when i start to feel anxiety or like less motivation like creativity is something that you need to experience like joy in your life and so i'm just like an ai can't remove that because it's a human experience that we need.

13:51Right. I do definitely agree with you on that. I also think, you know, there will be just different forms of creativity. It will just expand and you might be able to do something faster or better than you ever could before. Like my husband, the reason he even got into developing was because he was obsessed with video games and like he really wants to make a video game. Like he will do that. And I will like once we're done with or once he's done with working with me on this project he might go do many other things but he's just like so excited about the potential AI is presenting him because he will be able to do it quicker than he could have if he started it like five ten years ago are you guys using any AI in your business now not in your workflow no not particularly no definitely like things are in the works and more so on the back end of how to do things quicker but not you know I think we're we tread that very lightly just because our users are very connected to doing it themselves and we don't want to take that away.

14:49I want to talk about your own creativity now and where you seek inspiration and how you like protect that creativity while you're out there like building the business and trying to do that zooming out thing that you have to do if you're a founder that I think can take us away from being in the creative process of our business. How do you protect that and how do you like fuel your own creativity? Such a great question. I'm learning. I'm trying to figure that out. I think you're meant to have the answers to this. I know. I know. I think it's so hard. Like once you have kids and you're also running a business and you're all of a sudden you're just like, wow, I have to schedule this creativity.

15:24And I was saying this to you earlier, but it's like, I never used to have to do that. I was just exuding stuff. I was writing, I was in a band, I played music, I did photography. I did that. I was just like everything I touched, you know, now I'm like, cool. I have to like schedule this. This is so annoying. But I do think there is, you get way more efficient as you get older and you have to have to do all this so I do things like I have certain hours of the day where I I don't look at a phone or a computer or anything it has to be physical it has to be something that whether that's like drawing or painting or like listening to music or right playing guitar whatever it is like something that I'm not connected to a device yeah because I think that can get extremely overwhelming for me I start thinking um the way somebody else wants me to think rather than the way I actually want to think yeah I'm very obsessed with like movies and old magazines and imagery and and like being re-inspired in those ways is a lot of ways I connect and then doing things like going to concerts I feel like actually being in the physical world like if I go to an art museum or whatever it is I know that almost sounds like no duh but those little things actually make you feel connected especially to like your community and like a big thing for me is also going out to eat because a lot of the way I also like to think about Tezza is like a restaurant like you when you're in New York and you're walking around the Soho at night and you walk past every single restaurant the light is so perfectly lit and it smells amazing the music's perfect everyone in there looks cool you're like I gotta get in there I don't even know what they're serving but I gotta go like that's how I like to think about it and I feel like a restaurant really just I don't know my husband and I we love to go to eat like for four hours and just talk about every single thing and so we schedule time for that like when on Friday every Friday we go and like that is a non-negotiable it's like almost part of brand building for us and like being creative in that way so lots of different little things I don't know if I have all the answers but get out of the algorithm and get offline I feel like is the main thing there I'm pretty amazed that you've bootstrapped this business to where it is and I'm really curious about how you and and Cole as well have up-leveled yourselves as leaders and managing cash flow and budgets and figuring out the financials that feel very different to like the creative side of the business and maybe like the reason why you started it and those core skills.

17:48So I'd love to know how you've thought about that and also just your advice for people who are making these decisions right now trying to bootstrap something with no funding. Okay, business besties, let's switch gears for a second. Real quick, I want to talk to you about this season's presenting sponsor, Vistaprint. They are sponsoring this entire season of the Female Founder World podcast, and we love a supportive sponsor. So much so that we're actually working with Vistaprint ourselves to create the merch and all of those beautiful event perks that you know and love from our in real life Female Founder World events.

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19:09Use the code FFW25 at checkout and step up your branding game. We put a link in the show notes if you want to learn more. great question okay yeah so there are two i think there are two sides of this like when you're bootstrapped you're going to make really smart slow decisions because every penny matters so you're really thinking about it and i don't think there's any right or wrong way to do it this is just from my experience but you know i think in the beginning we were scared to hire people because then you're managing people and and all this stuff when we really like to do the creative part.

19:43So that was really hard for us to let go of or to bring people in that we trust. Like the fact that we have 15 people today is insane because I think two years ago we only had five. Wow. Maybe even four. Wow. I'm seven years into the business and this is something I'm like, wait, why don't we do this sooner? I think we had a little bit of like imposter syndrome with running a business where a lot of people have the benefit to raising money is you have people asking you specific questions, looking at your numbers, doing all this stuff. We didn't have anyone doing that. So it was just the two of us.

20:18Whereas that maybe might've made us make different decisions. The benefit to not doing it is we really trusted our intuition and we still do. And I think that's really important to have. Sometimes the data isn't gonna tell you the answer. It's good to have the data too, but your intuition like really knows and you can see where the business is going and how to grow it, I think. Something we've been doing recently that's been extremely helpful is just calling up, messaging someone on LinkedIn, sending someone an email like, hey, do you have an hour, 30 minutes for a coffee? People that I know have really good experience that are willing to share information.

20:54Like people love to share information and talk. I think I was just so afraid to ever ask somebody for help. So now we've brought on some people who have done amazing things, have really good experience with data, with hiring, with growing teams and people are really willing to help. And even if it's for a small fee or just like from friend to friend, like you would be surprised. So I think if you are in that place where you're trying to understand what you need to do next and you don't like, you know, get it as far as you can. And when you're like, I need help, ask somebody for help and someone will help you.

21:26Yeah. I love that. I think that there's something that a lot of us have, not just you around feeling like everyone else knows all the answers. Therefore we should know all the answers and not really understanding that everyone else has asked questions along the way or they have like a very specific skill set I also think like founders who are like creative and who are building for themselves and they are the customers can often undervalue that and feel like oh because I don't have an MBA or because I didn't like you know I didn't like work for a startup before I don't know how to do this properly it's not a real business whereas once you've actually been doing it for a few years you realize that all of that stuff is actually kind of the easy stuff that you can hire for and outsource but it's the actual like understanding your customer figuring out a product they want and knowing how to communicate to them that is the magic that's that's hard 100 % and I think too like that's such a good point because there was a time where we thought maybe we should raise some money like let's take some meetings and so we started going down that path and it was just so I actually learned that I know way more than I thought yeah but because you maybe didn't go to business school or whatever it is you really second guess your decisions but I think if something's working like you know what you're doing trust that yes and then just bring the people in to do the stuff you don't know how to do when did you know that this was working like what was the inflection point where you're like oh okay this is going to be our thing now like my husband didn't quit his job until like two years in okay um to launching the app that we were like profitable in the first year so it was like amazing but it was still kind of like we were starting other businesses doing other things I was doing like the influencer side of things so it was they were all just kind of like piled up we were working like non-stop and then I was like I actually think there's something here maybe you should quit and so then he quit we started doing that but I swear it wasn't until like four years in where we looked at each other we're like oh like we went to lunch with somebody actually who was like wait how much are you doing how many downloads have you had blah blah they're like you know and you guys don't run ads like you know that's actually a crazy business you have and we're like yeah I guess I guess it is and then we were like oh we need to treat this like a company we need to start hiring people we need to like you know take this to the next level I think we just felt like it was our little thing we it was working but then once we took a step back and looked at it almost like from a competitor standpoint as well you know we were ranking in the top 10 photo and video editing apps in the app store it was just like oh there's something here we just don't even know what to do with it and so finally we like sat down and like made a business plan I don't know that we we always had like a plan but it wasn't ever like a written out thing so it was kind of like fast and loose to say the least but oh I love that I want to talk about money for a little bit because you've built this business I'm sure it has changed your financial situation and changed your life and I'm really interested in talking to women who are successful and who are self-made about their relationship with money and what you do with your money now that you have some.

24:27Great question. I've never had anyone ask me this. This is fun. I like it. Yeah, I feel like money is such like a scary topic, but like these are businesses, not hobbies. And so we have to talk about money. Otherwise, what is the point? What is the point? Right. I like it. No, I actually think I grew up, my mom started a business and I watched her grow it. She was an interior designer and she started it in our basement and now she's like so extremely successful and amazing at what she does so I just was like that is my path like I'm gonna do this I want to provide for my family and I obviously cannot take all the credit in my situation my husband is the other half of everything that I do not just family but business so but really now I'm excited because I have the opportunity to invest in brands I really believe in so that's something that I've been doing in the past few years that has made me excited because I get to not only invest actual money and then help support brands growing that are just getting started, but I get to like advise and be a part of like their brand building.

25:25So I've really enjoyed that part. And then I'm just learning about like investing in general and being safe with my money. I mean, I do like to spend money, but I like to save my money, especially I feel like I used to say this back in the day and I've changed my tone on this since I obviously have a business and everything now, but I felt like being an influencer was like being a football player. Like you have a short stint, so you have to figure out how to like make the most of it, which is true to the influencer side of things. Not saying you can't be 50 and being a creator. You can, but do you want to?

25:58I don't know. Like I don't. So I'm always trying to kind of think about how I can like maximize my time in this space to give me opportunity to do something else one day. because I think that I will want to do that. That's so interesting because I also – I actually feel that about just like entrepreneurship in general. I'm like I feel like there's a ticking clock on this. That is my window to like build something meaningful and I don't know if it's because in my head I think I'm going to hit a certain age and all of a sudden not understand the internet and like how to be relevant. Like I don't know if that's what I'm afraid of or if it is – or if it's just like an acknowledgement of like this is like a really unsustainable way to live my life.

26:39I think it's just still new. So you've never like seen the longevity of someone's career. Like we haven't been around long enough to see it through. I'm always such an advocate for like, if you are an influencer or a creator, like start a brand on the side that you can also be making money while you sleep. Because you do grow up, you have kids, whatever it is, and you don't always have time to go make content for another brand or you don't want to because you're pregnant and you feel ugly or whatever it is. It's okay. It just happens sometimes. So I think like finding ways to diversify is really important.

27:12And it's so cool because I've seen even in the past few years and just being in this space for so long, I've seen so many people start brands and crush it. And their brand is so niche and it's so them. Give me some examples. I want to know like who do you think in this space creators and influencers who have turned their personal brand and personal followings into scalable one day like sellable businesses? Totally. I mean, where to begin? And I think Oriam, who you're cast, is an amazing example. She was like one of the first to like kind of change the way you think about jewelry and make it really like her whole thing is her jewelry and her accessories.

27:51It's amazing. I think like Dairy Boy by Paige Lorenz, really niche and really like so her life that she has turned into a brand. I feel like there's daily drills, same swimwear. There are just so many that, you know, even like Park, for example, or all these girls that are starting these brands. I think you can start something very niche and it can actually work. For someone who wants to get started building their personal brand that can either support a business that they're building now or that maybe in the future they can launch a business too, what's your advice? I think just start. If you have an idea and you think it's a really good one, I would say get it out as quickly as you can and see what works about it.

28:33because I think sometimes you want to hold it close to your chest. You want to work on it forever, which is great. But there comes a time where the idea will no longer be as good as it was when you had it. And if you can learn what is good about it quickly, you can adapt it. You can change it. You can evolve it. It's never going to be what you started as. Because like that's just talk to anyone that started Rand. It's evolved 10x, you know. Even when we launched the app, like I was like delete it out of the app store. We got like two negative reviews in the app store because people had an issue with paying with apps back then.

29:05And people still think an app should be free. I mean, people think every piece of content should be free. This is a battle that I am facing. Yeah. I'm like, well, that's just not how life works. You'll learn a lot quickly. And I think like my husband, this has been our motto since the beginning, like done is better than perfect. Just get it out. Start it. Make the phone call. Everything. It'll be like a ripple effect. All of a sudden you can't stop because it's just going without you. Yeah. That's so interesting that you say that because from the outside looking in, it looks like everything you release is perfect.

29:34Oh, gosh. That feels good because I'm always like I could work on it for like two more months and my husband's like, nope, pushing it out. So I think it's good. And it's also good to find somebody. Maybe you're starting it on your own or maybe you want a business partner and make sure you guys are you have the. Like, because I would say, like, my husband and I are both creative. we're very aligned but we're so good at different things and so coming together we can create an amazing brand and product but I think if you can find that business partner that can do the things you can't you'll you'll move quicker.

30:10Can you talk me through a an example of a launch that you've held and what some of the marketing activities are that you do like leading up to that? Everything's a little bit different sometimes we're working with a brand we do a lot of like collaborations with brands in that way but if it's like a just a tezza thing um we first you know come up with whatever the launch is then we'll do a photo shoot that's around the experience like inspiring you a new way to create or whatever it is or building a world around the new filter or preset or whatever and we'll do everything from so we haven't really ever done like influencer marketing where we hire creators yet but that's where we're headed we've kind of done it almost like the the opposite way even though I believe in influencer marketing I think we just have always had that organic engine so that's like not where we start but we then go from creating ads and that those feel very like user generated so they might not be the professional photos that we go take they're usually like a little bit more relatable something that a user feels like oh I could go do that in a single tap and then we have like the aspirational part of the campaign.

31:15And then we'll even do like early access drops. So letting people come, whether it's on our broadcast channel or texting channel or something to like, let them access it before everybody else, which really builds like a lot of hype and community and people get really excited for like every single drop. So that's really fun. And then once it releases, then we are always like reposting and repurposing and our users content, which I think they get so excited to get reposted on the channel, which is still so cool that that's happening. We're still kind of learning like marketing we don't even have a real marketing team it's still done by me and my husband who does the ads we have someone who's like running the ads now she's in-house yeah her name's jana key she's wonderful um but we're creating them okay yeah amazing so it's still pretty like scrappy in that way yeah i think sometimes you're just like i can only do this part really good right now and then i'll focus on this part and this part but yeah tazza can you also walk me through what a day in the life looks like for you I'm really curious about the team setup where you spend your time where you're focused what does it look like I mean wake up no I'm just kidding do the kids I I honestly am like I'm so focused on my kids when I get to be so yeah that always feels really good that I can like make sure they feel that I'm there and they had that I love them and then I'll I'll go to work I batch all my calls to like Monday Tuesday if I have to because then that way I can leave days to actually be creative so Monday and Tuesday are usually like I'm at the computer pretty much the entire day unless I'm doing fun things like podcasts with you which I really enjoy I think I got to a point where I was like I am doing everything at 20 % because I can't actually be present yeah when you're managing a team all of a sudden you have so many people asking you questions so it's really hard to say like I got to focus on creating the next thing for the app or coming up with the marketing campaign if I'm just answering.

33:06So I try and patch that. Um, and then I spend the rest of the day. There's like, I always try and have two hours of the day. I can be somewhat creative, whether that's where that's like undisturbed creativity. Um, whether that's even just like a walk with my husband and we're talking about like a new way to do something. Walking is a huge part of the way I think and create new ideas. So we, do you listen to like podcasts or anything when you're walking or it's just like no I I love podcasts but that's usually when I'm driving luckily in LA you drive a lot so yeah I like the idea of having this like protected creative time with no external input where it really is just you thinking yeah because I think I get like overwhelmed by too many thoughts and then I have anxiety and I'm like I can't do my yeah I can't lead a team either which I think has become a really hard thing to transition to from being like the sole creative person behind the I think to actually having to lead a team and make people feel fulfilled and give them a job that they love.

34:05You know, that's also a huge it's not just like what I'm the product I'm creating, but I'm hoping the internal team feels that they get to be creative and love what they do as well. So that's like a huge focus. Do you like this new role, this new like version of yourself? I like it. I like I'm learning. I feel like I'm learning every day, which is really exciting. yeah it's overwhelming at times but I do want to always like try and find a way to get back to feeling that creative feeling I saw someone I can't remember who it was post like around um around new year saying that you know this year was like a leader of like a founder of a big beauty brand about how she was trying to like step back and go back to the thing that made her create the business and and get back to that like creativity because she was so she spent the last three years just like scaling and managing people and and she was like I feel like I've lost the magic and so that's why I asked you that question because I'm always really curious about as founders get out of that like really close to the product to then managing teams and thinking about growing how that changes the way that you feel about what you're building I think like I always wanted to run a business yeah I did actually think that was I when I was seven I started a art business I taught like art yeah to like the neighbors and then I started a candy business like I was always kind of like very entrepreneurial so this is testing something in me but the magic of being like just a creator and creative in that way I will always be chasing I think for till the end of time the last thing I want to ask you is for a resource recommendation it could be one thing it could be a few things it could be a book a podcast a habit something that's been helping you as you've been kind of like up leveling as a leader, as a founder, and that you think other people should go and check out.