The New PR Launch Playbook, Shein x Everlane And Team FFW's Smart Swaps

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0:27Jasmine:This episode of Female Founder World is presented by Omnisend. Hi everyone and welcome back to your weekly group chat podcast by Female Founder World. I'm Jasmine. I'm the founder and the creator of Female Founder World. I'm Natalie. I'm a team member at Female Founder World. I'm also newly a founder of a swimwear brand called Beach Street Swim. And I'm Paige. I'm a contributor here at Female Founder World and one of the co-founders of Benny. First thing I want to talk about straight up today is the Everlane and Shein acquisition. I think we all sent this together. We all sent this in the Slack and we were like, what is actually happening?

1:03Jasmine:What is this? You all saw this, obviously. Yes, of course. I was shocked. Shocked, shocked, shocked. Yeah, I thought it was like a meme, honestly. Yeah, I know. I know. It was like, it honestly looks like it wouldn't be real. But if people miss this, basically the news broke on Sunday that Shein is acquiring Everlane. And for those that don't know, Shein is the Chinese e-commerce giant, which I think everyone knows that. And Evelaine is a, you know, they really started as a sustainable clothing brand and they are acquiring it for$100 million, which is a lot less than what Evelaine was valued at.

1:46Jasmine:And obviously things have turned and things have changed. So Evelaine was founded back in 2010 in San Francisco. the whole vibe behind the brand was like radical transparency and they shared you know not just like the price of the garment but like the breakdown of the fabric the labor the duties transport all like retail markup like all of that and then things got pretty bad so uh revenue declined from around 200 million dollars a year in 2023 to around 170 by 2026 and they also accumulated quite a lot of debt so they sold to um the majority owner is l catatan it's a that's a private equity firm and they uh they accumulated like 90 million dollars of debt which is obviously pretty significant and around like march this year the the new owners said that they were like seeking a new investor to address the debt and that's how we that's how we landed at she and apparently which is the most ironic thing I've seen on the internet for a while all I'm seeing is people calling them a sellout pretty much yeah but I do think that having a sustainable business is such a double-edged sword because yeah it builds amazing brand loyalty but the second second you slip or stumble you're immediately a sellout and people assume that you've sold your soul for money which obviously isn't the case here but at first glance it seems like it is I don't know I think people are allowed to be pissed off about this like we'll talk about it from like the founder perspective of like what taking on debt means but I think I don't know like if someone I don't think I've ever shopped Eveline but if I had if I'd supported them I would be so I would just be like come on guys you know like it's just the ultimate like oh we can't trust anyone kind of vibe you know you think that you're supporting one thing and then to sell to Shein it's like just such the antithesis of everything that they stood for seriously no I'm curious on the ripple effect from like brands that we like know and love that are sustainable or like tout themselves as sustainable if there will be like a ripple effect of a lack of trust I reached out to Eva from Maud she used to work at Evelaine and then she started Maud which is a VC-backed sexual health company um and she was one of the really early employees at Evelaine so she had like equity in the business and like really helped shape it I asked her some, you know, some questions over email to like really dive into like why a brand would do this.

4:13Jasmine:Her response was basically this wasn't really a choice, it was a rescue. And that this kind of transaction is in very plain financial terms, a debt driven exit by El Cataton, the private equity firm who has the majority stake. And, you know, that came with about$90 million of liabilities. And basically that the CEO had been searching for ages for an investor that could address that debt load and then they found Shein and she said that for founders there's a really important pattern to recognize here so that when a private equity firm takes a majority stake in your company they're going to bring capital but also structure and that often means debt and so the interest rates have now ticked up and venture capital firms are like tapped out and so Everlane found itself in this position where they have all of this debt and they need to kind of do something about it.

5:07Jasmine:And so the board's fiduciary duty is to resolve the liability, not to like protect the brand's ideological identity. And so, you know, they ended up with the person who had a big enough check was Sheehan. And that, you know, is sad, but that was the only way to kind of save the business. And so the board signed off and ever said that this is what like running out of road, what that looks like from the inside of a business. It's not like a strategic pivot. It's liquidity events driven by desperation and not vision, which I thought was such an interesting perspective to bring to this conversation.

5:45Jasmine:And obviously, you're not going to see this in all the hot takes on like TikTok and Instagram. It takes so much more nuance to kind of like understand this. Imagine Evelyn was like, we're pivoting, guys. She and here and here. I think that would be a different story. But honestly, it's to no fault of the consumer because at first glance, that's kind of what it seems like. And I think a distressed sale, which is what this is, versus a growth acquisition, they're two totally different things. But they read identically to a consumer, which is no one's fault other than a lack of education surrounding the subject.

6:18I probably wouldn't have recognized that early on. And again, we live in this world. We're so privileged to understand that. and I think like those founders and early equity holders they want they don't walk away with much like didn't Eva say you know they're not really winning in this situation that sucks like nobody wants that which is so gutting I feel like it's such a and I'm like I don't even know what the lesson is to your to your point Jaz and Nat on like I don't know how you predict this and it makes me think to like times of you know desperation for our business or any business that feels like oh my god runway and you're like I'll do a deal to just you know keep things afloat and I guess like to what Eva was saying that is what they had to do I think it's like a reminder that when you

7:04Jasmine:take capital there are always strings attached yes and but at the same time like you need to take money like even if yeah even if you're a brand who has aspirations of changing the world for the better you can't unless you come from a lot of money you can't do it unless you've got institutional behind you and that's like whether you're a sustainability brand I bet if you food company and ethical you know fashion label whatever anyone who's done it and done it well had institutional backing behind them and you have to do it we also have to realize that it can come with you know this is the potential downside if things don't turn out the way that you thought they would you can't just kind of coast along you have to deal with that debt yeah 100 and it's so hard like El Caterton are wonderful partners like they have such an amazing track record that like that is such a shock it's all just such an interesting moment who else does El Caterton like who do they have majority station so many oh my gosh yeah so many big ones but they also have a growth side like I know I know their team from uh the team at Alice Mushrooms they're big investors in them so they do they do small stuff too i'm just gonna pull up like birken stock no go ahead yeah apparently the okay so they're the largest consumer focused private equity firm backed by lbmh yeah so there we go yeah there you go you know what else i think what else i i'm thinking of as we're talking about this is lisa sesgar and um their statement around sustainability claims this year did you see this it's so funny when I saw the Everlane news my mind went to this and I'm so glad you brought that up yeah for people that don't know Lisa says Garton that can you like share what happened so they also kind of have this sustainability principle where they're kind of created towards a consumer that's looking for like small batch designer ethically made products but they have seen so much substantial growth in the past couple years honestly probably even more in the last year because they've been around for quite a bit but I think in very small quantities so I've noticed this growth and I was actually thinking before this news came out how are they producing so much and getting into the hands of so many people when they're just made in-house so obviously like any good business person I'm sure they decided to outsource I don't know the exact I don't want to misspeak on exactly how they're producing now but it does differ from their original production and that really made people upset once people did the digging and I'm pretty sure that this girl we were referring to who does the sustainability chats I think she also kind of did some research on this and like it just creates this snowball effect of people doing their own research but also just jumping on the bandwagon of like you're a sellout so they had to go on and defend their why behind changing up their production and it's such like a difficult tightrope to walk it really is um but as you grow that was a decision that they had to make and what where their values are so it kind of reminded me of that in a way obviously they weren't in 90 million dollars of debt but you know like a similar principle I do wonder like what happens to um I'm back at Everlane now but like what happens to the brand after she and acquires it like they're are they just acquiring the database like surely no one that was buying Evelyn is now buying Evelyn you know yeah I'm so curious I think we need to regroup on this in like two weeks I'll add it in my calendar I just want to like do the quick and dirty on like the aftermath but I'm curious like I personally honestly you guys in the in the years of these moments like the Lisa says God moments I don't really read sustainable fashion as a contract anymore you know what I mean like I and maybe back in the early days of Evelyn I would have But when I see, you know, Princess Polly's sustainable collection, I'm like, OK, like this means nothing anymore.

11:05Jasmine:It's a really tricky one because I think when you're when you set up, when you set out to and you're small and you kind of like, you know, you have the best intentions and you make the claims based on when you start and then things evolve. I think maybe Lisa Seska hadn't like updated some stuff on their website. That's for sure. um also fun fact I was one of the first people to write about Lisa Sesgal when they launched when I was working at um Stylecaster I think you were on it I was on it also Robin Hood the investment app I was one of the first people to cover that I should have like actually just invested in the startup but anyway yeah um yeah but that was like you know back when it was I think it was like made in LA it was like very small batch ethical but now they've blown up but you like start these brands and you do need to you do need to be able to grow them and that requires like you said now some kind of like outsourcing and being able to implement those those more like scalable supply chain elements and it's like now they're also they are competing with like the she-ins in terms of pricing and it's really tricky because a lot of customers tell you that they want xyz they want sustainability they want transparency they want blah blah blah but then they go and buy something else and I remember talking a few years ago to a really big founder-led beauty brand and they had implemented a like everyone had said that they wanted to be have like a reusable packaging it's like really expensive to do so they implemented this whole like campaign where you could send back in the packaging and they would like reuse it whatever and she said that they have received one one person sent it back and she was like we put so like resources into doing that everyone told us that they want it she was she was like everyone's like oh gen z is so like sustainable and ethically you know ethically minded but she was like they're not putting necessarily putting their money there so it's really hard when you're trying to start a business and you also want the world to look like that and to do that but then you hire people you're trying to keep up with demand you're then trying to reach targets that are set by your investors and if you if you don't hit those targets you're going to be able to raise more money which means you won't be able to keep your employees on blah blah blah you're on this like growth track um and at the same time like the consumer love for that principles that you set out with don't seem to still be there and it's an interesting dilemma to be in and I think I'm not not that I'm necessarily like defending Eveline selling to Shein it wouldn't be my dream outcome if I was the founder of that brand I'm sure it's not their dream outcome but um I think it's something that we need to be aware of when we're looking at brands in this space?

13:44I think people need to set their values and intentions really early on in their business and know that if something like this ever comes, maybe think about what you would do in that situation. And also just be candid and tell people what you are. If you're not a sustainable business, don't try and sell people that. I think the whole thing with the packaging, it's so easy to get swayed by surveys and what it sounds so great to be all those things and have sustainable packaging. But at the end of the day, especially now when I'm trying to go through packaging and putting in those sustainable practices I'm like okay I never promised anyone this in the first place so why am I doing this now yeah it's so it's so hard yeah it's almost like now instead of saying that you are a sustainable

14:27Jasmine:brand you have to just be like we are doing our best but make no promises in this current like supply chain and economic landscape like you need so much more nuance behind it to be able rather than straight up making these claims I think someone who does this really well is um Charlotte Palomino from Dudo with the you know that reusable brand and she's like we don't even call ourselves a like sustainable brand or whatever because it there's so much now that you don't control and that could even just like being in this beauty category is not sustainable having a fashion brand is not sustainable no one needs a new blah blah blah like it's like where do you draw the line of what sustainability is it's kind of like which where we're making decisions through the lens of okay we want it to be as ethical and as sustainable as possible while also existing within like a capitalist system and it's like that's a really hard thing to put on a you know to put on a tagline or on an email subject line I actually was stumped by a student who called me for advice recently my dad's a professor and he had someone who was really interested in sustainability so she called me up to ask me about my swimsuit business and she was like are you b corp certified are you this are you that and i'm like i'm really glad that you asked me this actually because it's a perfect introduction to this world for me and my business isn't 100 sustainable our fabrics are sustainable the mill where they're created are sustained is sustainable so how do we convey that without people being confused or like over promising on the whole entire operation being sustainable and like what does that mean to different people like to someone who is really into sustainability and studying it in school her definition of sustainability is really different from my mom so just really interesting that is really interesting well in um maybe more uplifting exciting news did you guys see on your feeds a raise new launch they just launched a bloat gummy did you guys see that i saw sif the founder like teasing it on her instagram stories and she said like guess what this is and I thought it was going to be like a nervous system reset product but anyway I'm obsessed I'm obsessed so Array's first product was a bloat pill or like a bloat capsule and obviously gummies are like so trending we saw the Grooms acquisition Array has done like so much with gummies now in the last few years um and I think the format obviously is working for them but I love their launch strategy I love their launches always but they did some really cool stuff like on Instagram that I'm like kicking myself we don't do more of they did a really gorgeous shoot without celebrity faces which I feel like we at Benny have been so like celebrity celebrity biggest face we can get on any campaign I loved that the shoot was gorgeous but they did it felt old school it felt like 2016 Instagram they did a bunch of just like in feed posts not collab posts with folks like Rosie Huntington-Whitley, Jasmine Tukes, Lily Mooney, and some meme pages.

17:24And it just felt very organic. Like it felt old school. And I don't know what it was, you guys. I could not get enough of it this weekend.

17:31Jasmine:Okay. I totally miss this. I feel like it's such an antidote to the like Real Actives vibe of a launch. Seriously. You know what I find interesting is that the bloat terminology kind of survived the body positive era. I know. How did that happen? I don't know. And well, actually, you know, I do have a take. I do think that they sell it as a feeling rather than an aesthetic. Yeah. This, that, the other thing, whereas like, oh, I just feel this way after eating this. It would be nice to just feel a little less loaded and like, blah, you know, that's how I feel like they sell it in a real way, which is funny.

18:10And I also do think that the gummy angle is also helping with that because it's not just for someone who's pill shy. It's more of like a snack or a treat, at least from what I've seen. Paige, you tell me if you agree. Like the content that they've done surrounding it seems like people are tasting it and they're like, oh, my God, this is so good. Yeah. Which is not the first thing I would think of like a bloat supplement. No, I actually thought that was so genius, Nat, as well. This is so I feel like love, Nish, and Zip. But I feel like this conversation to the Everlane is like so much different.

18:39like low brow of consumer but I agree that I was like oh my god it looks like a sweet treat what do I want after dinner a sweet treat like I loved it and I think you're so right like a skinny tummy tea I don't think we're going to be hawking that anytime soon but like bloat is like kind of the

18:56Jasmine:you know 2026 version I think it's really interesting what you just said Nat about the it's marketing a feeling rather than an aesthetic like that is a hundred a hundred percent why it has survived like the body positivity movement i think it's really interesting can i talk about this nervous system reset stuff for a while because now it's in my head since i mentioned it i just feel like we're going to go through this big we're having like i feel like the the food and beverage space is having a big like fiber moment at the moment as well and i think this nervous system piece is also going to be really big around protecting your nervous system and it's like a buzzy word i don't know what i think about Benny and what you guys do Paige I think like better for you beverage is like not giving you the jitters of like having a you know have like late afternoon coffee kind of situation but I feel like the language around nervous system is definitely something that I'm trying to think about a lot I've been seeing like somatic breathing like really trending as a wellness practice and I am like actively seeking out products that are now about like calming my nervous system and protecting my nervous system and I don't know I feel like it was like gut health and now I think we're moving into like the nervous health nervous system oh i hope so can i just plant this here as like a little like a come back here in six months and see if that's right add that to my calendar as well we'll check in on everland check out on this i love that and also if anyone thinks i'm right can you please comment or dm me because i want to talk about this and i have no i have no data points i have no like a proof this is just a vibe and a feeling yeah um but remember one of the first people to talk about Lisa Sazga, one of the first people to report on Robin Hood, like definitely can like see the internet trends and like pull them together.

20:34Jasmine:But nervous system, I just feel like it's going to blow up in a really mainstream way. Okay. The next thing we need to talk about is 4am skin. So I had Jade on the show last week and she, you know, most of you guys listening would have listened to this interview, but basically 4am beauty brand, they are a few years old now and they've just raised$4 million and had this absolute sellout success of a new product called clean sheets which is like a bet if you make a wipe and they sold out four times they're launching into target and it's come after a long time of kind of just kind of like figuring stuff out like nothing none of their products have really like hit in a significant way and now they have clean sheets and it really really hit but what is interesting about them and I think you brought this to our slack channel page is the the way that they kind of like owned the internet for a little while through the launch announcement and it's kind of this new PR playbook that I wanted to talk about that doesn't involve necessarily having a PR agency and sending out a press release and I think that FIA, the fashion company by Phoebe Gates and Sophia Kiani followed a similar playbook where if you're in this space you saw them everywhere because they targeted the right like newsletters, podcasts and Instagram accounts and so I wanted to break this down is this like resonating with you guys when I say it a hundred percent totally I feel like they they saw what we follow like I'm like you saw everything yes follow you're you're yes you're targeting me a hundred percent so I've um I did a little dive into what exactly they targeted so that we can just like copy and paste it when we have our own like press moments that we want to share and so the things that I think they did well obviously they came on our show we had an Instagram like carousel case study about them and the clips and I think that's really important as well they were covered by traded vc the instagram account the brand blueprint hot smart rich um newsletters like beauty independent and fashion and business of fashion they had an exclusive with business of fashion on the website as well and they were also in the hot smart rich newsletter and so rather than just having this like kind of blanket pr kind of pitch where they were going out to you know consumer beauty press or whatever they kind of understood that the industry press is actually now on social and like this is where we're consuming our industry news it's not just reading industry websites it's very much about like who are my who are the voices that I'm listening to on TikTok that cover this stuff and like what are the newsletters that I'm listening to and who are the podcast voices and like this is where I want to get my news now and I think that the way that that brand launched their or like announced their news just like epitomizes this new industry press playbook that is really actually quite simple for people to copy without having a like a PR agency to do it themselves yeah I've been seeing 4am skin everywhere for the past couple years but especially now with the target launch and the what is it called clean clean sheets and especially now with the clean sheets and it's almost a subconscious recognition I didn't even realize that they were in all these places and it was one of those brands that I'm like oh yeah I've seen them everywhere but what is everywhere I guess all of these places and I'm kind of surprised that I don't see a lot of PR agencies targeting this kind of caliber of people or media it's more like traditional and I think we'll probably see a shift away and I'm curious to know anyone listening to this please comment if you do know PR agencies that do this because it is very scrappy and it is very like they really got to be in the weeds of like who's cool and who they should be speaking to also people brands and things that's the other like instagram account that i feel like you need to get your announcement in there i've seen benny doing this as well page do you follow this kind of playbook uh i try i try and i was actually gonna ask jasmine so we totally try and honestly our team is so strapped like our last launch we did and then this new launch i just like i i honestly forgot and i wish we did and now i'll do it now um reach out to all of these folks but I'm curious Jasmine on you covering Jade and all of the launch like what made this story really exciting for you what could our listeners like what is Buzzy that's maybe not a four million dollar fundraise that people can really like thread to yeah how'd you even yeah how'd you even come across them so she DM'd me um when this news was kind of coming out and she let me know that it was happening and I immediately jumped on it and actually the same thing around Phoebe Gates and Fia when they had their news she DM'd me on Instagram and that's kind of how I was introduced to them and so don't be afraid to like yeah your pitch directly when you're talking about new media usually these are really small editorial teams and like new media you know like we're talking about Instagram and TikTok it's not that new anymore but these are folks who have really small editorial teams and often when these more like media brands like female a founder world as a media brand people brands and things as a media brand rather than individual creators I feel like when they start covering it then like the individual creators will start covering it as well so like dm those accounts find out who runs the accounts dm them directly but the reason why I saw Jade's dm and wanted to chat with her like I was already interested in what she was doing because I follow or like I see her on my tiktok a little bit but it's because she had been building this brand for years and I felt like it hadn't I could get the vibe but I felt like the product hadn't like clicked or hit yet and then you see this moment where all of the learnings come together in a product launch like clean sheets and immediately like the brand kind of blows up and it looks like an overnight success but I know it's not because I've been following them I've been seeing what they've been doing and I know that they have been you know putting their own money not taking us out like doing all of the things and it's been like slowly slowly slowly all at once and I love stories like that it's like when Chill House did Chill Tips like following Cindy and she like started with the physical store and it was always going to be this like physical business and then she's like okay we need to try like e-com and like launch a couple products and they did okay and then she had this moment of like oh this is the product that embodies the original vision but is actually something that people really want and so I was it's like the story there that I found really really interesting and something that would like resonate with a lot of founders plus there was like an interesting lesson like they kill it at TikTok affiliate like TikTok shop affiliates when you talk about seeing them everywhere Nat is because they get like 1200 pieces of content a month from affiliates on TikTok and they just they have that feeling that they're just everywhere because of that and it doesn't feel adsy when I was seeing this I didn't even realize and then when I listened yeah to your episode with her and realized that TikTok affiliate that was going on in the back end I was like wow quite brilliant and I I do think that target placement is kind of like a legitimacy badge uh a lot of the time where people just think like oh this brand came out of nowhere when really they've had products for years now uh and when we posted um a real a couple weeks back with Abby from Abode she transitioned her business from a home decor store to only embroidery never in a million years did she think she would do that but if you see that momentum you just gotta ride that wave even if it wasn't you know your original plan and I and I really hope they do that and it looks like it's going really well I will say I thought when Real Actives was being unveiled I thought Alex Earl was going to reveal makeup wipes that's what I thought it was gonna be and I've heard great things about the cleansing balm which is kind of like you know I guess that's kind of like her version of the makeup wipe so I almost feel like this is filling that void and this is perfect I can't wait to try these no I love it I feel like what you are both saying like those are the most inspiring founder stories to me like to me 4am skin has always been big just because everyone is big in my mind everyone is a bigger business than mine is but I am like so inspired I'm like five years of the grind and she's having they are having their moment it is like so exciting and I think anyone should be so inspired by that like we can do it a hundred percent and it just like speak like really speaks to that advice that you hear again and again which is just start you'll get the feedback as you go and yeah you might have a few years of like real struggle but like you're only going to learn through the market giving you feedback you're not going to figure this out in your bedroom alone or in your office alone you need to get your product out into the world listen iterate and I think it's like a really beautiful example of that and it's that that's definitely been like my experience building business as well like people only really tell you what they want based on where they click and where they spend their money yeah based on what they're going to give you on in feedback in like a whatsapp group totally well that circles back to the sustainability piece are they buying it you know is that price point hitting it's so basic but i actually was just having a conversation with my co-founder on like the four p's like price position whatever like product like if you don't have those unlock if it's not selling like there you go and if it is selling like what you were saying natalie i'm sure you know makeup wipes wasn't the original idea but go where go where the fish are swimming it's exciting i do think also their price point being yeah the most uh the least costly compared to their other products is huge especially is it 30 29 it's 29 dollars her her having that value set of like I am not going over this price no matter how many sheets are in it no matter what I think was genius and there's also like a five dollar version that you can just try with like a smaller amount of product in it that you can just kind of like pick up and try in the I think like near the aisles um in like the exit in target uh and her her learning from that was like if you they started with a 69 dollar serum which by sephora standards is not super is like pretty like you know normal for a serum but she realized like we're not in sephora we're selling the kiktok shop and the pricing doesn't match our distribution strategy and so she was like the next products that we launch need to be more of an impulse purchase and that's how they landed there yeah i wonder did she mention it all to you jasmine i'm gonna message her i wonder if sephora is like on her roadmap at all like i don't know enough about beauty like distribution but i love it when you see founders kind of like marching to the beat of their own drum and like going where it's being picked up like I know I mentioned them last week but the phase it team have said like we're never like Sephora just is not clicking we're gonna go to Walmart and they're crushing yeah amazing no I totally agree I think um I mean I don't know I'm sure Sephora is like on the cards I think that what has been super interesting about their story is they originally thought they were going to build out like a full product set like road or glossier or someone like that and they ended up with this clean sheets product and yeah oh okay like no no we're a makeup white brand and we'll just do that in the same way that um touchland does hand sanitizers like that's going to be their product and they'll just i have i have no intel on this but i can fully see them being like i'm gonna have a we'll have clean sheets but it'll be infused in this and then clean sheets infused with this and like they'll have different benefits to them or like different experiences um that's how i kind of see their their like skews that like kind of you know evolving yeah um rather than then adding in like new products it's going to be like let's go really deep on this one and it's so genius parallel just like clicks for me yeah i'm like oh okay okay you can see like the hyaluronic acid and then the like whatever and then the vitamin c one and then the that's how i see it.

32:25Yeah. No, so smart. I'm like, okay, done. I need them all. Add to cart. Done.

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33:47Jasmine:So if you're new to the show, smart swaps are our recommendations, the things that we've been trying and loving that are making things a little easier in life, in business. I can kick off with the one thing that I get the most DMs about whenever someone sees a clip from the show. And that is my remarkable tablet. You guys know what I'm talking about. Yes. Oh, my God, Jasmine. You need a code. I need one. I really want one. Again, I bought this in 2020 and I was on the wait list. So it was like when they were just launching and I think I was sitting at home during COVID being like, I need something to make myself feel a bit better about life right now.

34:22Jasmine:And so I bought this tablet and it's essentially like looks like an iPad, but a bit thinner. And you write on it with a special kind of like pen, stylus, what are they called? Those like tablet pens. But it feels like you're writing on paper. It sounds like paper. It feels like paper. And it's so hard to explain that without you actually having the tactile experience of using it. but it feels like your pen is scratching like it's scratching on paper like I can't explain it better than that and you can write on pdfs you can just write um handwrite things then you can convert it to text and email it to yourself and so as you know guys you guys know I'm queen of like wanting everything to be analog now but the reality is like I also need the you know the efficiencies of like having a digital life and so this was like a really beautiful medium point plus when I'm interviewing people or on the podcast uh you don't want to hear me like turning pages of paper I don't want the light from a screen um holding a phone still feels like rude when I'm talking to people even if my notes are there so I really try and avoid that whenever I can because it looks like you're distracted whereas this is just like the perfect medium for like a podcast and for an interview but it's also just like a beautiful thing to use day in and day out and like no you don't need it but it'll make your life better if you've got one I love that I've been wanting one for ages and I don't know what was taking me so long I love writing things down so they're not cheap they definitely like there it's an investment okay my smart swap this week is this website called dayuse.com saw it on a random bus billboard in New York City so I'm not quite sure where exactly they have this but it is kind of a discounted hotel rate just to use for the day rather than the night of course my founder brain goes to like oh photo shoot perfect it is giving sex worker a little bit yeah I was like wait a second but if you are looking for a place to have a shoot during the day I know a lot of founders will do like a two night stay or like a night stay and then they're like the checkout times are weird I don't know I don't know the logistics of this is the first I'm hearing about it please forget me if it ends up being like a total sex worker trap but yeah I'm like maybe I should do more research on this before i'm like no i think i also saw after because you put it in our um in the female family and in the broadcast channel which is actually where we put a lot of recommendations if you guys aren't aren't in here make sure you join them i'll put the link in the show notes but uh after you shared it i saw i've started being targeted by ads classic and i saw um who is the person that does she does all like the street interviews like ugc stuff it's um kate kate connect yes so she's doing their ads and so I saw her face and I was like oh interesting oh I have to text her about that I'm yeah yeah okay interesting well I do think if you're really trying to make a beautiful campaign of sorts or just doing UGC content and you can't really afford to do like a whole fancy night stay yeah I'm sure they have I've actually taken a look and they have a lot of like the major nice um New York City hotels on there so check it out in your city if you need a spot for content you know what yeah yeah you know what I think of it for honestly is my co-founders on the west coast and often when we're in New York like she's doing the red eye we have a couple hours and then she's like pulling in all dayer and we try so hard for like an early check-in she'll go to a nap pod sometimes in the city but like she would die for this like this is actually like life-changing for her because check-ins at three what are we doing until then we're just gonna totally die on my flight got in at six yeah I also have this problem when I'm flying when I'm doing Australia and I like go to LA I'll do the red eye overnight from LA to New York and then I'll get in and I'll be like on the I'll be recording from nine yeah like I'm like trying to shower in an airport this is not like bringing all my stuff this is not the way I pictured this trip yeah oh my god I love it no we're gonna be using that thank you Natalie um my smart swap is honestly similar ish jasmine to your smart swap so i'm sure we're all to-do list girlies this is something that was recommended to me when i very first started my corporate career so i have like a high low version of this so the high version if you want to spend money it's called the habit journal and we can post it in the chats but it like breaks down your to-do list to the three things you need to do every single day to like have a successful day and like literally you have to cut your to-do list to three things and it's life-changing I've been using it for years but if you don't want to use the journal the journal is amazing it's actually like such a treat and a delight it's a beautiful beautiful journal if you don't want to do that my co-founder and I like when we're on the go or we forget it or we like don't have a refill we'll just do it like literally verbatim what are the three things you need to do instead of a whole to-do list instead of a mind dump to-do list like break down to three things and you will just finish every day feeling satisfied like you actually did what you needed to do instead of the never-ending to-do list that haunts you okay is this the one i'm just googling it is this the one by james clear the guy who did who wrote atomic habits no no it's not called evergreen no this one is really cute so she actually the founder used to be my boss and she's awesome so i hope you're listening i'm gonna send it to you guys it's it's really gorgeous it's called evergreen journals the habit journal but we'll post it in the chats a really good price it's gorgeous and honestly like just like the hack of analog like productivity like you don't need an ocean board for this yes amazing all right thanks everyone that's your show see you next week bye

40:09Spring just slid into your DMs. Grab that boho look for that rooftop dinner, those sandals that can keep up with you, and hang some string lights to give your patio a glow up. Spring's calling. Ross, work your magic.