Avsnitt 539 - Sommarbörs och Handelssons comeback!

30:47Investeringsgurun:Just it, and it's all in. Yeah, it's the I think it's a little bit. Precis, but if we go back to the fund, and tell us more about the fund, what your strategy is, and why you've been doing it now, but we'll get to the end of what your strategy and philosophy is. The fund is a systematized fund, and we mean that we have a systematized fund. So we let after the tydly and maybe the amount of anomalies in the market that can be a year or a week or a week. The exact time horizon when we think that this anomaly will play out. It's not important. It's time in relation to the price of the price. Can you explain what an anomaly is for the listeners if they don't know?

31:39Investeringsgurun:It's a good question. The most small-pum-actiers have had a chance to see... man kanske ser man har haft en möjlighet att kanske se vad som håller på att hända om vi tar några enkla regler som vi tar post earnings announcement som jag pratade mycket om när jag var i podden att det finns vissa grejer som där blir en stickiness i ett move att det kommer en bra rapport, då brukar det move kanske fortsätta en tid, att du ser också att aktietrender över dagen och trender över veckor och liknande, det är ju per definition en anomalie för att om det hade varit en perfekt effektiv marknad så hade det inte funnits den möjligheten, eller hur?

32:14Investeringsgurun:Men ändå kan vi statistiskt and it's also academic evidence that it is what you should call a a fair price. What it depends on is not so relevant. It can the research debate. We just think that it exists a anomaly. It is open to create a better opportunity to pay for the money from the market situation. When we put more of them on each other and through that systematization and automatically So we can look at the way more and more than a manual. Ambition over the time is to automatically automate so much as possible of the process. Not only the process but the admin process. The system is to be able to handle more market and cash.

32:57Investeringsgurun:Just as in any investment strategy as possible, so you want to diversify so much you can. To get the specific risk. The same thing is often the diversifying is the forväntable ofkastning which all of you know that if you have 2000 paper in the portfolio you will be more likely than if you choose 1 It's full of logism but by the way you do instead of applying a systematical angle on a larger universe so it doesn't mean that that the diversifying is the forväntable ofkastning but it just matters that you have more chance to handle the specific anomalies so if we take a Atlas Copco, they have 4 reports per year, or?

33:37Investeringsgurun:So if you want to talk about post earnings announcement drift in Atlas Copco, then you have 4 times to do it, or? But if we look at 2000 paper, then you're 4 times 2000. Now you're 8000 events that you can play on. And it's the thing that you use the word, if you take spot-to-value as an example, why I use it for example. So if you think a baseball player, for example, so you talk a lot about batting average. If you have a batting average, then it's just about the amount of swings you do. And it's what it's going to do to a Babe Ruth or a... ...some nobody knows. And it's what it's going to do.

34:10Investeringsgurun:To make it out of the universe of a number of papers. And to make it so many swings as possible. So it's like the famous movie Moneyball with Brad Pitt? Yeah, but it's a bit of a... You can use it a lot of math and statistics for... ...what should I say... ...to identify these anomalies. Yeah, exactly. I think most of the people who are on with the market are aware of what we're talking about now especially if you have a really good call on a company so you can think that it's a really good news or this report was completely blind and you think that it just went a little or what you say and then it's like that it's delayed and it's an anomaly it's a post-runner and out of drift it doesn't need to be a report it can be a news or anything else and something that ignitar a move if you use a lot of English

35:04Handelsson:and our ambition and goals with Colosseum is to provide a alternative to a ren aktie-exponering and what we see is a smart way to take risk on because it has been a lot of like TINA and FOMO and all that it is and you must be in the market constant for that otherwise you miss a lot of And you see all the time that if you miss the best days on the 10 days, then the majority of the average of the 10 days are the last 10 years away. So it's a lot of so that makes a fear for being outside the market.

35:43Investeringsgurun:And you think cash are in a position? It's true.

35:47Handelsson:That we definitely do. But as a Swedish trader is just the opportunity to handle the Swedish market between 9 and 17.30. so for every krona how many times can you use it per day for to generate a discount but if you spread it I mean why should it take a stop 1730, it's just a market there that has been 24-7 it's why I've had a lot of sömnlösa nether so given that you have a good edge portfolio for a market to try to 1. find so many markets that you can for a use of them and 2. find so many in the same time as it just goes. And as a person is it very very limited in it. But if you have a sophisticated system then you can use it on a much better way.

36:35Investeringsgurun:And then you can also look at how many markets are as well. Absolutely. On two for the first. Absolutely. And there comes a little bit of question. We are in and touch on it now. You mentioned the amount of money and you use the best practices for doing or you have setups that you look after. But it's not a long-only fund. You can do an affair and then if it's on a minute or on a week, it doesn't matter.

37:02Handelsson:It's very much about how much expected EV or expected value you can get out of an affair. So say you buy Telia and then you can buy that you should have to pay 7 % per year. Just to take a example. And then you can buy it up 5 % on a week. then maybe you can sell off Telia and be outside the 50-1 weeks and try to find a different place. It's clear that if you have a limited scope of how many of the markets you have to look at, so it's very difficult. But if you have a very brett, a very global scope, so always there's a place. The question is just that 1. find them and 2. position them right there.

37:47Investeringsgurun:Yeah exactly, I always say that people are always surprised how much their akties are in the day and on the week basis, but if they just look at one time per year and how the portfolio has gone.

37:57Handelsson:And it's exactly what I thought. So if you just can sell every top and and buy every bottom, it's actually your theoretical max. It's not that it's no one who can do it. but how much of the percent of the percent can you get? Is it 10 %? Is it 15 %? Is it 40 %? It's hard to say, but in terms of the volatility in a range you have to use the volatility for the amount of time to generate a discount. If you don't do it, you're not enough to do it. Or you have all of a high amount of expenses for the part of it.

38:36Investeringsgurun:All right, transactions, and all of the things. If you want to take it to a more daily life that all people do when you go in to a market shop and you buy a packet of a smar and you say that you buy a price on a small amount of a lot of volatility that the market has. If we're in a hypothetical way that it's a 50 % of a on a packet of a break-out then you can probably like to buy a packet for you know that you'll use a smar next week maybe in a month also with a large number of people. And like that, if the price on the smear has doubled or tripled, it can be alternative choices you can do. If you can think about a brigad and a konkurrent product, substitute, or maybe go to another shop.

39:31Investeringsgurun:People do this every day. They plan a budget for a market, or price-filling, how to buy electronic and like that. But just when it comes to the market, people think that they need to be passive. When they know, it's not something we're on, but when they know that it's an incredible volatility, we know that there are over - and under-reaction, we know that it's been a bit of evidence that there are some anomalies. But still, people choose actively to be active. Att vara aktiv. Att välja passivt är också ett val. Och jag tror att vår approach är väl att man kan, om man hypotetiskt sett i en hushållsbudget hade kunnat leta upp det billigaste paketet som har över hela Sverige, i varje given instans, så hade ju det varit en fantastisk möjlighet för en hushållsbudget.

40:23Investeringsgurun:Och om man applicerar det synsättet och den filosofin på börsen och aktier och förvaltning, So I think that you're going to get better Forutsättningar Than if you're going to be passive

40:35Handelsson:So you're saying There's a time to belong There's a time to be short There's a time to go fishing And we don't want to fish

40:43Investeringsgurun:And if you're going to fish Because if you're going to pick up a thousand pounds Then you can go and go and do fish On the fish when you're fishing Yeah, but this goes up with As we also mentioned in the pod That the end of the business is where people rushe in when prices are high and rusars out when prices are low and it's clear that it must go and it's passive that all invest in passive has just over driven the effect but if a company goes well it's bigger and then it's bigger and then it's more than a index and then more have it so it's constant buying so it's really exciting for the approach it's just a bit of a Yeah, and then It's both the mänskling psykis How many retail investors ager Alltså 2022 i oktober Was it not many who were really excited to hop in Däremot in the end of December January 2021 Then we Köped NFTs to and with So it's super-spennable But then we come in on You two of them are going to be able to How do you hold a call on all How do you see the competition out Is it less competition in Norden I think I'm a bigger I think I'm a bigger How do you see it?

41:58Investeringsgurun:Have you been talking about the automatized process and system? Absolutely Two people It's clear that it's a little bit of a team for tech Global It's a little bit of a open mind But then you should remember That we're looking after Are just upslag Ideas Just as That you're pitching In a investment Or what else That it comes with deal flow Can you say And then it's not that you're out and search but you're saying yes or no, maybe, all the time, all the time. It's clear that it's a huge edge to be specialized. But we think that we specialize on a piece of work for the individual's own world, or what you want to do, the geographic profile and the like.

42:49Yeah, but exactly.

42:51Handelsson:If you put two hours on to analyze a company, if you now put 200 hours on to analyze it, then there are no guarantees for that the price will be 100 times so high. If you put it on the other side, there are actually some of them who have taken up very much time on to analyze the company. And then you start with that you get the best on the company. And then you can maybe make a nickname on Twitter to the name of the company. The company's name, Manne. Or what else. There are many examples of the history of it. And generally, they don't usually do that well. So we have chosen a different approach that is much more than ever.

43:40Handelsson:For you want to have a large range of people that are so big as possible. It's often worth it to diversify within one sector, so you want to work so breadth as it theoretically goes. If you have full focus on healthcare or you become a specialist on Mag7, if the sector or the company goes bad, then your ability to generate absolute risk of getting horrible.

44:08Investeringsgurun:It's really funny to be the best in the world on pharma and biotech. and then it shows you that the whole segment just goes down year after year in 10 years. You can be the world's best on it. It's like being the world's best handkerchief of a spin-rocks machine. It's not many who use a spin-rocks machine anymore. It has a more generalist approach that makes you more opportunities. So it's just. It's just that you don't know everything. You don't know everything. There is a place where you just accept that you don't know. best for all. And it's a big deal of risk control and risk handling that we don't have all information.

44:50Investeringsgurun:But on the other side, who has all information? And you can go on.

44:54Handelsson:And sometimes even when you have all information so it's still a problem. Trots that you have all information so you don't have any ofkastingsgaranti for it. So if it's not an exception of information in a sub-3 in the form of that you know that a bud will come or something like that, but then it's more inside.

45:15Investeringsgurun:I think that the best example there is if someone said to a valfri person 2019 that next year will be a global pandemic, the whole world will be going to be a total darkness. If I said how should you position yourself on two-year-olds? How many would have said I know, I go all-in the most risk-filled, and you took a example with NFTs, there was no person who had a logical thinker that could see it before. And it's what it's about. You don't know what the future is. It's almost impossible. The one who says that they know that X and Z will not happen, it will not happen. It's about how the way to do it and the way to do it is important than what you think is the goal.

46:01Investeringsgurun:The one who has a fail can still pay for the money. The one who has a right can lose the money. And it's what So that the ramverk and especially risk-showning must be aware of the perfect information that Oleg says, that it will not come to the whole way. I think it's very clear that a global pandemic was the best thing that could happen in the first place.

46:24Handelsson:A big deal, it's the best A on the first place.

46:29Investeringsgurun:Olja is a better example now. You think all the worry that is in the Mellanöstern. Man säger att USA kommer att bomba Iran Och Israel kommer att bli beskjutet Med x antal hundratals missiler Vad hade du gissat oljepriset Skulle stått i Om du hörde att de hotade med att stänga Hormuzshundet Vad hade du gissat då, Holm? Nej, över hundra dollar Så blev det ju inte Nej, sen började det gå på Nosa och sänkte den rakt ner Men det var väl också för att Hotet försvann Det stora hotet, kärnvapen Hotet försvann And then risk-premented Iran has I oil-prisets go to the bottom But it's always a hundred different But the reptile The point that you had when it happened Was that now will go to the bananas

47:15Handelsson:It's obviously two parts You can have a fantastic idea It can be the best idea But how do you execute it Can you Can you Can you create a value of the idea On a good risk-justice It's really what you need to ask Exactly.

47:33Investeringsgurun:And there is it that you look at global. I think that if you have so many upslaves, you can also do it with less size in each other, so that the risk per single affair goes down. But you don't have any more affairs to do. Yeah, but it's also a huge part of that if you want to measure slippage and like that, so you don't want to be dominant in a lot of detail. Man vill heller inte åt andra hållet ha för stor koncentrationsrisk i portföljen. Men genom att ha ett globalt univers och en global approach så kommer det att sliza ner varje, om vi ska återigen gå till bettinganalogin som en pokerspelare.

48:17Investeringsgurun:Du får ju lägre betting size, du kan spela fler händer. Och om du har en edge i att spela, då ska du spela så många händer som möjligt. Så det är mycket bättre att sliza ner den, du får bort bolagets specifik risk, You will get the diversity effect in the portfolio while the time it is not affected. So it's mathematically correct. It's not a guarantee for anything. But it's just a risk of risk.

48:42Handelsson:It's also about having the right optionality. So if you sit in a company that is very illiquid and you have found a case that is potentially much better then you open the order and see that this will never be able to sell. or at least not to a correct price. And then you will draw from to use the optionality when you have to climb 5, 10, 15 % in the order book. And then you can't take the idea that maybe is better. And it's this I've been a living for in my trading. I love to have optionality. So if it's a good idea then you can go on next to the next.

49:21Investeringsgurun:You've told me that you have a global universe You get a lot of information that you get pitched out of your system, your business. Is everything automatized or how does process go to? When you have a system that lets you, I'm not sure they ping you, then you see that here can be something to do.

49:44Handelsson:All that is really not automatized is a long way to work with automation. Automatiseringen. Nu i början är vi nog snarare helt manuella i själva handeln. Men vår ambition är att sakta men säkert öka automatiseringsgraden i takt med att vi känner oss bekväma med systemen. Allt är testat, allt är pålitligt. Vi har galet duktiga kodare som hjälper oss att bygga och implementera både tredjepartssystem men också proprietära verktyg som ska hjälpa oss att både hitta Edge och kunna monetiza på den. And it's like a lot about to automate and also to effetivize admin processes that are happening in the process of driving a fund.

50:27Handelsson:But also to use the processes to analyze and handle for a really effective development. Something that in our opinion is not in the world and is not available for retail.

50:43Investeringsgurun:And then we come into AI and machine learning. Is it something you use today or look at it? Or how does it use? All the technical help is very interesting. It's something you use in process of building all these different systems. But it has so much to do. You can climb up to the whole of the whole of the moln. It is so that it is, and this is just as Oleg is in a process, it is a very long process to build these works, to constantly develop them. To use AI, so that you can generally see it, is very difficult. We can't ask chat GPT or X or Z, but you can implement it in a process for the process to do how the process works.

51:37Investeringsgurun:and maybe especially use it for to be faster and easier to build on these tools that I think is gold worth but generally it is like a marathon we build tools that should be adaptable that should be smart then we add information to it so yeah is the answer but exactly we add information and to the end of the day, it's a little machine learning. They learn to look at a new market and try to find the same. Yeah, you must remember that the best input that exists is still the most important input as we are now. You can't ask ChatGPT, how would I do this better? You don't get a good answer. And all of them have access to it.

52:27Investeringsgurun:I think it's hard to be so generic. And all of them use the lyrics on a way that maybe isn't

52:35Handelsson:It you can use the tool to double-check yourself. If you think it has come out a new thing about a clinic study, or a phase 2 or a phase 3, and it has come out a lot of results. Egently 99 % of people have no idea what the result is. So it can be good to double-check with chat GPT and be able to do what this really means. Then you can't take any form of decision on it. but you still have to see it as a company with 135 IQ that can much more and much more than things that you don't even can. And then it can be a good tool to double-check the type of knowledge you can use.

53:21Investeringsgurun:Like a classic question, I can ask you to ask if you have a company that holds under control of a jet-order in China and ask you how many kilometers of jet-order in China? and it's a massive, so maybe it's a good order, who knows? And so on. If they get paid.

53:42Investeringsgurun:You'll find questions. Yes, exactly. My next question would be, when I started a hedge fund, the last 10-15 years have the hedge fund world had it tough, must you say. Riktet is not as it was once again. was. They jämförs with passive fonder with low ofgifters. I mean, a man has not really understood the syft of a hedge fund. Then there are many hedge funds that have gone away. And then media is a little, for every exception of a hedge fund on the market is always a hedge fund that smashes. So it's automatically that it's a roly to write about it than a hedge fund that had a good taxing for a year.

54:23Investeringsgurun:How does it look? How does it look? Space? Now we don't need to put up hedge funders and hedge funders Because many are new and doing different things So I can't go back to hedge funders as a own sector But now I'm in the case Generally, it's clear that alloceringen To the cost of hedge funders Has mined at the official level If you look at the store Allocering, institutionell capital, pension funder The alternative cake has to a large part gone to private equity or fastigheter. Then maybe they are in a scale that is a juridic. But we are going to take away from everything. We just need to look at what the money goes to.

55:10Investeringsgurun:So the allocation to the classic hedge fund, so that you think in the head fund, the one has changed how it goes. And especially the one has also changed how it goes. so that a allocator that that's a mandate that or say, I should have a long short exponering against europeans they will probably not to send out a brett to all the forwaltators so that they are with and pitch it's not so it goes to but you can probably go to a multistrat that offers different pockets so it can be a managed account you stop in the money and then you get it under some you get it from a ram that you need to handle if you want to handle that's just biotech, that's just in the north and we just can just be long.

55:54Investeringsgurun:It can be a mandate and then we call it a management account. It's just a example. But what you see generally is that in Europe is very different from America. In America it's much more living. You have a legend hedge funder that's in today with up and running, rent tech and Appaloosa and even Point72 has become a HFN. So it's much more living there. It's often a fee structure than what it is in Europe. whereas Europe is much more multi-strat and there are also many prop shops there for example Millennium if you know what it is, it's one of the most most of the time there is it that under Millennium so there are how many the strategies as well where whoever can come in to be a mandate so that, yes, in this branching is it not easy to be a little act, it can no I don't want to say anything.

56:50Investeringsgurun:It is really a new one. It is a real one. But generally, Stockholm has been, a time in time, a place for new cash fund. Who knows? It doesn't matter. Maybe you are starting to start for it? It is many who are in Stockholm. I think it is very difficult to get out of a global world. That to concur with companies like Appaloosa or Rentic is on a level of form of 1. If you start a garage or what it can be, you come out right out to the market. It is a different concurrence than what it is to start a glass-of-the-market. You are directly on the global arena. So it is a different brand. can you say.

57:43Investeringsgurun:Exactly, and it's a little bit different. If we talk about hedge funds, what the idea is. So we talk about alpha, beta and so on. For a man, maybe you don't really get with it. But most of the funds have a often-review index. Or many have a often-review index. But beta is that you go as the market goes. And then you can have a higher beta. You go better than the market. Or you are underweight. But you're not a market neutral, but you're as a marketer. Or you're as a risk as a marketer. Yeah, you can say that... What do you mean by the fact? It's my question. Generally, I can say that the market goes up over time.

58:28Investeringsgurun:If I put it in the description, as all people say, it's a change in a modification. But what you talk about in the general price is often a index. S &P 500 Wilshire 3000 I America Det är väldigt många bolag som går i konkurs Index är ju ett survival bias Det blir ju det Men du kan ju de facto äga index Så det är ju ganska bra Men det är en systematisk strategi som väljer enskilda aktier Utifrån vissa premisser Och ändrar sizing i dem egentligen Med jämna mellanrum Men det man säger då med beta Beta är ju den klassiska driften Om du kollar på om X30 grafen start, ja den har gått upp. Lutningen på den är väl någon form av beta.

59:10Investeringsgurun:Så att givet att du köper den, ja det är ju vad marknaden gav generellt sett då. Om man jämför mot det. Och sen alfa är ju att du kan leverera över det. Sen, det här blir väl det som blir annorlunda med hedgefonder. Att en hedgefond kan ju ha massa olika strategier som kanske inte ens har med beta att göra. Om du är kort marknaden och du ändå tjänar pengar. Alltså i reda tal. Om du tjänar x procent, X percent, X percent, X percent och alla de siffrorna är positiva då har du ju en absolut avkastande fond. Och genom att du har då, om du är lång för 100 kronor eller kort för 50 kronor, då har du ett netto på 50.

59:47Investeringsgurun:Då är ju din marknadsexponering 50%. Så att om du håller den positionen länge så kommer du få 50 % beta kan man säga. Och resten, om du överavkastar då mot det då är det alfa. Du har generat mer än vad du tog i risk. För det är ju det här som är det viktiga. Risk. And how do you see risk? In our case, if you take us as an example, QVQ goes both short, we can go long, we can have much cash, we can have a brutto, we can have a netto. It's a lot of different ways. But in the end, it's about risk. And what we want to see is how much ofkastning we have generated in relation to risk. And about how much time did we do it?

1:00:32Investeringsgurun:That's what we do. We don't think it's so relevant to jämfört us. So it's Stibor then? Yes, so we're going to see the risk for a month as Stibor. It's our forecasted-trousel. So it means that we take a lot of interest on the forecast that oversties Stibor. And it's the Svenska Referens-Rentan for a loan between banks with a month on a month for what's exactly. And now I'm going to ask you a question. I know that you can't talk about the expected of the expected of the cash fund. But I can ask you if it's possible for you to pay money? If it goes down or if the market is still or if the market goes up?

1:01:20Investeringsgurun:Is it your classic cash fund in the aspect? Do you have potential to do a business at all the way in the market? Man kan väl säga att ingen kommer att vara perfekt i absolut alla marknadsklimat. Vi börjar där. Om man då kollar på vad vår ambition är så är det ju självklart att det finns en bredd i de som vi kallar anomalier, eller edger, setups, kallar det vad du vill. Och att de kommer att spela ut på olika sätt i olika marknadsklimat. Men vi kollar istället på det vi verkligen vet att vi kan påverka. We can't decide how the price goes, we can't decide how the price goes, we can't just go to an pace.

1:01:59Investeringsgurun:But what we can do is our risk levels. We have said that we want to hold a risk level that is in line with the actual akties generally, over a 24-month period. And those risks we spend for the risk level can we control. And then our ambition is that we should have so much ofkastning as possible for the risk-in-the-sister. How the market goes, it will be seen. It can't we can't help. It can only be able to improve. I think that you have a tool to do all sorts of things. So it won't be like, we just do this and now it's bad. So then we can't wait until it's going to go. It's always in different markets where it's a a tydly a tydly a good deal to be a good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good and all things are going to improve but you have to talk about the risk that is a general risk a specific risk we have been in on the other but it is to understand that we are a bond that can go long we can öka risk, vi kan minska risk.

1:03:19Investeringsgurun:Och i och med det så kommer vi ha en väldigt annorlunda avkastningsprofil än den generella fonden. Men det enda vi kan styra efter, det är ju att hålla vår risknivå i schack. Men så ni kan vara nettokorta i fonden? Ja.

1:03:36Handelsson:Ja men precis. Man får ju se det lite som en Swiss army knife. Och det handlar om att ha en väldigt bred edge portfolio that can use in many different ways. You don't want to have a a small, old, old, old, old, old, old, old, old, old, old, old, old, old, old. And it has worked very well, but sometimes it doesn't work. For what you need to understand with the market, it is that it is a certain alpha decay. If you are in the whole world about using chat GPT, so it will work much better than om du har en halv miljard människor som använder det. Och det är det som är jätteviktigt att förstå. Sen så vill jag ändå gå igenom lite hur vi tänker kring vår process när det kommer till investeringar.

1:04:26Handelsson:Så vi har delat upp den i fyra delar. Det är pre-analysis, det är execution, det är post-analysis och det är monitoring. Och alla de delarna är superviktiga och det är ingen del som klarar sig utan den andra utan man behöver helheten. Så säg i teorin att du har världens bästa exekvering. Det finns ingen som kommer i närheten av din exekvering. Men du har inga signaler. Du har ingen pre-analysis. Ditt signalsystem funkar inte. Då kommer du inte generera någon avkastning. På samma sätt så funkar det åt andra hållet. Så om du har världens bästa signalsystem men är värdelös på att exekvera, då kommer din avkastning också förmodligen vara dålig.

1:05:11Handelsson:So we have created the process, the iterative process, so that we can generate a good amount of cash on a good way. So we have a good signal system, we have a good execution, we always have a good amount of cash, we always have a good amount of cash, we have a good amount of cash. And we can hold a call, a good call on the portfolio.

1:05:31Investeringsgurun:And it's important to be adaptive, to constantly adapt to the process. Because this process is a process-based decision. It makes you feel adaptive, because you see what you need to change.

1:05:46Handelsson:It's a very important point, Eric. Of these four parts are no part of the development of the last month. So we keep constantly on sleeping on those parts, day in and day out.

1:05:59Investeringsgurun:Then you get a new thing. What is the time horizon on a time? How active are you? How many affairs do you do? It looks like it's a massive.

1:06:10Handelsson:It does very, very many affairs. But there are also diversified over the horizon. And there is of course, the price of the sector you are exposed to. How much risk are you willing to take in this sector? How much risk are you willing to take in this to - and even there must we diversify. So if you have some of the risk of a duration risk, and time for holding in the house can vary from 5 seconds and months more months

1:06:45Investeringsgurun:it's probably generally if you have a high volatility so you will be able to but also if you have a form of what do we call it for let's say it more in a lot of terms so it will go faster in some parts than others and to pay 1 % as a hypothetical that you were talking about 1 % on a very short time so it's fantastic or even less if you take your own example if you take your own account and then puffs it so come a new year that it starts to be then you can set your relation to it so if you buy a company that you think you could do 20 % in a year and you get extremely much ofkastning on a very very short time so it's a fantastic affair in the time it is it's it you need to take care of so that's the thing in relation to how something is and it will be a chance to to affect transactions intensity in the fund exactly so that's the time it's also important it's just that's the time because it's the time alternative ofkastning is so important on a global level.

1:08:01Investeringsgurun:For you can't have 10 000, 20 000, in your own fund. It doesn't work. Or it goes well, but it doesn't work. But if you see it on that you have a paper that goes really well and then you have 20 other of the other side that is potentially really good. So the alternative is at least as important.

1:08:22Handelsson:A risk-justerated ofkastning per tidsenhet is a lot that we use very much. Just it.

1:08:28Investeringsgurun:And it's what we trade. We said it earlier in the episode. If you can do 5 % on a day, it's much better than 20 % on a year. Precis. If we go on a little bit on the structure of the fonds, we thought we'd talk about a little bit about the amount of information. It's always interesting, people are interested in it. You're a hedge fund. It's a little different when you look at the amount of information on hedge fund. especially the new start of the hedge fund, I've been looking at a little about Protein Select and them who don't have any history, then it will be a mishmash of the fast and the rarly of the hedge fund.

1:09:06Investeringsgurun:So, a hypothetical that will be a hypothetical that will be in both the areas. But you can explain a little bit about what the hedge fund is. And then I thought we could talk a little more about their risk-level. But we can start with the price of the risk and the boll of the fund. Yes, exactly. The new start of the fund has a list of the industry, so you can probably not be able to do so many exact costs and like that. You can do much of the antagam. That's why it can vary very much, especially when you look at new and older and like that. But in this fund we will have an average of 1 ,5 % of fast average and we will have a rate of 20 % of the average of the average of the average of the 30 days.

1:09:57Investeringsgurun:And 30 days are the risk-friated days? Yes, 30 days are the risk-friated days. It's about how you place it on a rate between the banks. Stockholm Interbank Offering Rate. Next question is about risk-level. You wrote that the fonds of the standard of the volatility

1:10:26Investeringsgurun:will be in line with the global market. Historically, it has been between 10-15 % on the basis. I think it's a short. You can explain a little bit of that. You're a hedge fund, you're absolutely outkastande. But you can easily do... The first thing is that you're doing the same thing as the market. Is it better that you follow the market? You can explain it. I'm not sure that it's not so. Eftersom you're a absolutely outkastande hedge fund and you don't just want to be stock pickers and long enough. You don't have a benchmark index. So now we can explain how you think about the standard of the case and that it should be like the BUS in the stock.

1:11:13Investeringsgurun:A big reason why we chose to have a risk model where we describe it as a risk model is because we want to have a adaptable risk model. What we mean by it is that when BUS in the global markets that we have chosen, it's also when it's most possible and then we see it from the wrong price. With high volatility, it's when they are upstated, it's when the possibilities are. And because of that, you have a model where you can take risk under the situation where it's most possible, it's what you want. A market that still offers not so many possibilities. We need to take risk when we have positive edge.

1:12:01Investeringsgurun:And that has one when it's possible to handle. Volatility in the fund doesn't come from the netto. All our exponering towards long-sidan. Or not the short-sidan. It doesn't come from the right-to. It can also come from the brutto. That we are short in the way to the other. Volatility is just a concept that mäter a rower from a medel - And I mean, if we see volatility as a matematical, volatility can be both up and down. You can have a strong strength on upside-wall like on the upside-wall. So you can see a difference between downside-wall and upside-wall. But generally, we want to say that risk there is not to come from the market, but rather from the position of the market.

1:12:55Investeringsgurun:and it can be a mix of different and we can both go short long like that defensive portfolio under korta tider so I think I think that you should take it with the lens of the or with the glass of the that we should have a adaptive risk model where we try to maximize our positive edge

1:13:21Handelsson:if I say my So a person, I have thought about these things very much, but a person will never be able to find like many edges as a well-built system. You have a number of things that you can scan and hold on and handle at the same time, while a system lacks these begränses. And the challenge is to quantify a edge on the correct way, but when you have got it on the place and can sort it so that you can handle risk on a exception. It's actually the idea that it's the idea that we can set up to a system. Most of us don't spring to work. You can take tunnelban, bussen or bilen, help you to take from point A to point B.

1:14:07Handelsson:And it's exactly what we see on our system. And in this case we have built our own bilar, own bus and own tunnelbanesystem. I understand that people have paid for a product that has not lived up to expectations. Just as you mentioned, many hedge funds have paid very much for hedge funds in hopes that they should deliver a cash flow. In many cases, they have done it short-sichting. But then something has gone wrong. It's just as you said, you see a big deal on the market. And now it's still a hedge fund that has spręgts. and you write about it. So, yeah, if you have reached out for something then you don't get enough to invest in hedge funds.

1:14:53Investeringsgurun:And often it's a niche hedge fund. So biotech hedge fund that will be a short biotech company that will be a bit of a business. It's why I was a little bit on that you are global but you have no niche or a sector niche or something like that.

1:15:07Handelsson:It's just a strategy there that works over a very good period and then suddenly it just started to work. To sell volatility, it was done here for a few years ago and it worked really well under a very long period. But then it was all done. And on the same way you can set up a market. 99 % of all options are gone to zero. But it doesn't mean that it's a discount to get there. So I understand that you don't want to pay off-fil-a-priser for soja-affaires-biffes. Man vill inte betala de här avgifterna för att riskera de här sakerna. Sen måste jag också nämna att målet för oss, vi vill ju verkligen bli en folk hedgefond.

1:15:55Handelsson:Sparekonomerna ska till och med våga rekommendera vår hedgefond. Det är på den nivån. För det har ju blivit så tråkigt. Om man vill bara rekommendera invester och de här indexfonderna med låga avgifter. Man rör inte ut sig på riskskalan.

1:16:13Investeringsgurun:We thought that to add to it and spinn further on it. Indexfonder and everything is a fantastic investment for 99 % of all the people. There is nothing else in it. It has created a environment in the market that makes it very obvious. It's a very obvious purchase of the company. When the month-to-day goes in the ETF, they must buy their paper. It doesn't matter what price it is. This is what it is doing. It's getting more and more active. The old fund that maybe could have been able to get it when it was completely gone away. They are getting more and more indexed. It has been an evolution in the industry that we want to create more space for the people who have the opportunity to go away from index.

1:17:04Investeringsgurun:And then we don't want to go down Sandvik against Atlas Copco or Tele2 We talk about not just to go down We can go cash We can also go to the cash And through that you get a completely different A lot of cash So it's clear that this is not a product It won't be for everyone So it's It's a spain What we say is something we think We don't have to take it For we had to have it And it may be available for some types of investors But it is generally not for the spread of mass And it was what was cool when we did this project That we had the ambition to get it to do it for a man Who knew the same need of having a similar product in their portfolio And it's just that I think That you mentioned now Alltså, ha en produkt i en portfölj.

1:18:04Investeringsgurun:Att man kan se det som en allokeringsfråga istället. För ja eller nej om man ska ha en hedgefond. Jag tycker att det har blivit så svart och vitt i hedgefondvärlden. Antingen har man en hedgefond eller så har man det inte. Och då kör man passivt. Istället för att man tittar på en allokering. För idén med hedgefond historiskt var ju att man skulle kunna ha det som en hedge. Det är det ordet kommer ifrån. Att gå börsen dåligt så kanske den presterar. Och då blir det en allokeringsfråga istället. Hur många procent av portföljen lägger man i en sån. And it's just so that the big, broad, mandat, all the other, the other, the other, they see on hedgefonder on that way.

1:18:36Investeringsgurun:And it's just because they invest in it. Absolutely. You have a lot of fine hedgefonder that has been found in how long as you want. Just to mention a few, the American, the Swedish Lynx. The most of the time that looks on Lynx think that this is not a product. But it's the whole point with Lynx. That's what they write in Crisis Alpha. and like that. And it's a need of things that maybe don't go one by one against what you already have. It's a whole thing. But it's up to what they're after. I think that you don't really talk ill about low-offgifts products or like that, but it's been a very good development, generally with ETF in America, which makes it possible for men to have a really good And it's just that you can choose from.

1:19:32Investeringsgurun:And it's just that you can choose from. That you can choose from. And it's a more than in the palette. Okay, and with that said, so welcome to your comeback, Handelsson. Yeah, thank you. And Oleg, always fun to have you here in the pod. And for me, who has known you for 10 years, more than 15 years, so it's super cool to see your en resa och att ni nu launchat er en baby. Och ja, jag kan ju säga till våra lyssnare jag kommer ju stoppa in för att det är superspännande. Det har saknat en sån här produkt på marknaden. Och det ska bli fruktansvärt kul att se var vi tar vägen. Så stort tack för att ni kom hit och att ni valde oss.

1:20:12Investeringsgurun:Och stort lycka till. Stort tack, stort tack för förtroendet och kul att få vara här. Och ja.

1:20:20Handelsson:Jajamän. Nej men som sagt, väldigt kul att vara här.

1:20:23Investeringsgurun:So, stort lycka till och vi hoppas ju såklart att ni kommer tillbaka så kan vi köra lite uppföljningar och vi kanske kan prata om, ni har ju precis lånsatsfonden men det lär ju hända grejer på marknaden. Så det vore kul om ni kommer tillbaka och tar er en take på om det har hänt något speciellt i marknaden, hur ni har performat eller hur ni hanterat saker och sånt.

1:20:41Handelsson:Den stora frågan som alla undrar över Långolf är, kommer du att sälja dina indexfonder för att köpa vår fond?

1:20:48Investeringsgurun:I have no index fund. So absolutely. As a trader it's hard to go in in the passive space. But here I see that you trade at me instead. And if you want to talk a little more we are on our fondhotels website Isaacs.com slash funds if you want to come out of your document. Annars there are both I and Oleg on Twitter so if you have any questions shoot. Exactly And is it Handelsson and Paper Chaser Nickname's name? Man should never change a concept Exactly, and what do you find from it? It's on Nordnet now We have to invest in Nordnets platform With a distribution of calls So if you have a depot there So you can have them as a depot bank to invest in the fond Or so you can be a direct investor in the fond And then you can do it via Our fonds company, ISEC And for to finish it all So you have a disclaimer That's the fact that the Fond can both go up and down in the value And it's not safe to get back the investerable price It's up to each other and to make their own risk Because of their own expectations For more information about Fond and the Fond and the Fond ISEC Services AB You can go to their website www.isac.com-funds And scroll down to the Fond's documentation So as Fondbestämmelser, PRIP or Infobreschyr Toppen, och man kan höra av sig det på Twitter Och man kan höra av sig direkt i fonden Det stämmer, vi finns tillgängliga

1:22:21Handelsson:Vi svarar på alla frågor så gott det går Och den heter Colosseum Global Alpha

1:22:27Investeringsgurun:Colosseum Global Alpha Kom ihåg det nu, alla ni där ute Tack Yes,

1:22:38Investeringsgurun:och sen så kan man ju kontakta oss På Facebook, Twitter, PhilKillPodden At gmail.com Om man har några frågor eller funderingar Och sen så vill vi ju tacka vår Klippare och Finwire som hjälper oss Med podden Och innehav, äger vi några av dem Jag äger inte Intrum via Play Jag äger Tigo Som jag nämnde, annars så tror jag inte Jag har nämnt några av dem innehaven Det har inte hänt så mycket i min portfölj Den senaste tiden Nej men vi har inte nämnt några av mina innehav heller Over and out Just what is it that you want to do? We want to be free. We want to be free to do what we want to do. And we want to get loaded.

1:23:20Investeringsgurun:And we want to have a good time.

1:23:21Handelsson:And that's what we're going to do. But wait, baby, let's go. We're going to have a good time. We're going to have a party.