Avsnitt 558 - Netscape moment

15:25Mark Holmgren:We're not surprised if It has a foot in the industry It does a lot of affairs in the industry In December

15:39Daniel Aren:Yes, there are many of them

15:40Mark Holmgren:It's a lot of calls, a lot of orders Emissioned are set at the beginning of December All that looks like we're ready to go

15:49Daniel Aren:So we don't know if it comes a lot of calls I have a very good memory of what I was going to do I was going to buy a lot of calls in December They always got a massive store order and got up a rocket. Exactly. So I hope you've got to have been in a so-repris. I hope I've got to have been in a so-repris. Yeah, then we had WeSports which was noted. And there you can go a little bit to school about how you do a good note. The price has been opened on its opening price. 80. The price is 73 now. So it's a bad IPO. I saw that the increase of the number of companies of the company. Ankarna took not a big deal.

16:22Daniel Aren:The real dream is a little free float. A little bit of the Klana tried to do. It was not so much luck yet. But a lot of luck, a little free float and a little bit of a company. This is a big deal. It's a big deal with a lot of sports. It's a big deal with a lot of e-handlare. Many were positive but they were able to make it because it was a new component. and a little high but it's interesting what the action is it's a green show that they should take up here the first five minutes and then we had Avanza also so that it came a little bit later it was a full action but often when a company has handled bad from start it's like this set sentiment it's interesting to see how the action is and how it's going to stay.

17:21Daniel Aren:But the first day is often very important if the news is a success or anything.

17:27Mark Holmgren:Yes, otherwise you need to wait a while until the dam has taken away. And then it can be that you can find something that no one looks at.

17:38Daniel Aren:So we'll see. For the week IBO-marknaden was super-het. Now it's not like it yet. It's coming a new Argo Defense. All the akties, even WeSport, was just a craft of overtecknade. I don't know if I've seen an end IPO on the big companies that are not craft of overtecknade. Then they can handle shit so that you don't have to take in so much facts. Then we had your American article QCLS. You sit and look at the Shikrelli stream. You saw that he had been on a short here.

18:08Mark Holmgren:It was actually a member of my sub stack who found it in the company. Then I looked at it and looked at it and then completely wrote Shikrelli about it. And I just went to my analysis, I just bought it. And so it went. And this is on the topic of memes, when someone buys a company. Martin Scrooge is a character, can we say. He's a good guy, he's a hedge fund-forwaltare.

18:32Daniel Aren:And that's what we've been doing 100 times.

18:34Mark Holmgren:Yeah, exactly. But he's not dumb. He's not dumb. He's not dumb. That's what we say. So he's doing live streams every day when he trade. And... He has been known for his short bets for the Kvant company. He was a dyrt in the beginning, better at the end. Yes. Here I have found a company that would be a hybrid between Kvant and... GoTo. Think about mini-commodels between CD-Skyfan and MP3. Perfect. And they have a laser technology that they have licensed. Yeah, but they have licensed it from a Israeli company. And they will then do a quant chip. It is not a quant. They will compete with Nvidia chip and so on.

19:30Mark Holmgren:Especially with blockchain technology. All right, miners and so on crypto. Yeah, you hear how memy it is. so I thought market cap was 19 million dollars so it was just to go

19:46Daniel Aren:this is a guy who has more than 100 000 followers he has how many followers as well

19:52Mark Holmgren:so I thought he will go and it did it, it went 50-100 %

19:58Daniel Aren:and then you bought it and sold it and then it was a little

20:00Mark Holmgren:I had a little kvar I bought it and sold it half so I thought we'll see if it continues now it has gone some days So, sometimes the trend is out quite fast.

20:10Daniel Aren:Yeah, and that can be seen on SPAC-marknaren. I have a SPAC-baran, I don't know, in the R-TAC. The one is just dead, completely. So, you can see that sentiment is from the top to the top in the market in the USA. So, you must understand when the music starts to play. Then it can be a SPAC - deal, it will be really good. But you can see that from that it's a lot of people who want to buy, to that it's completely different from the SPAC-marknaren. Exactly.

20:38Mark Holmgren:So we'll see what Martin Schreller does with this. He was going to be a role in the company and he was going to be a house. He doesn't have to sit in any lead position. He said, if we can take it out, then I'll fix it and help it with this company. He's a special character. But on the topic, it's a lot of small companies that fly. I saw Playboy, it's a company that has gone. Playboy, it's a company that has gone. The vuxen underhållning Has gone 300 % Or 200 % On a day In a week There have you done a little after-forskning But It's a fly and far It's a retail in December

21:21Daniel Aren:If we go on to budstrad We had Warner Bros Discovery You had something called Discovery And then it was together And so this is what they did They had done it back here Investment bankers must have been Warner Bros Discovery So it was a lot of money And before it was a fan-notation Yeah but then I didn't really buy it

21:41Mark Holmgren:So I bought it well Discovery And then I bought it together

21:45Daniel Aren:So I was looking at it last night When we went to the stand Then I saw that the actual was up 177 % On six months And I got it And then I told you You had to say to the pod That you had left it But I sold it this In the end of August

21:58Mark Holmgren:In the beginning of September And then it was a budstrid

22:00Daniel Aren:And then it was a content is king.

22:02Mark Holmgren:Ibland sitter man och har en idé och det jag tyckte var ju att de värderade sig alldeles för... De äger HBO och allt möjligt och Discovery kan ha fem och allt möjligt. Och Warner, Harry Potter har ju dem. Warner äger ju hur mycket content som helst. Men framförallt streamingtjänster. Bara på de streamingtjänster som de sitter på så värderas de ju liksom till spotstyvel av vad en till exempel Netflix värderas på sina användare. Alltså antal användare och hur mycket du värderar en kund. So Bara där fanns ju ett value case På det sättet att man tänker sig Okej men Netflix eller de andra Större, vi borde ju vilja köpa De här, alltså det blir som ett multiple Arbitrage fast på Antal, värdering på antal Användare, och sen också Warner och Discovery sitter ju på fruktansvärt Mycket content, och jag tror ju Att content is king Och det ser man ju Liksom Disney till exempel, de sitter ju På fruktansvärt mycket content också and it does Netflix also they produce a lot of themselves and have collected content so I thought Warner and Warner Discovery was up for grabs for how much content you get and how it's worth how it's worth, how it's worth so I thought that this was a no brainer I thought that I very long but to the end of the day I got up, it was like that

23:23Daniel Aren:it was like that to the end of the day it started to get a lot of different bud and it became a bud process And now came Netflix and laid a high bid and said they had won. They had to make a mail from Netflix-to-be. That he, he, we have won this. And then the next day came it hostile. It's not that you have to work with the styrel. You have to put a fiently bid. And with Netflix, you were a little afraid of what Trump and all juridics would sell, konkurrensmyndigheter and so to say. and now in Paramount which was the new bud there was Gerard Kushner with, Svärsonen and some other sovereign from Mellanöstern so it feels like both of these bud are a little stökig, thank you to all of them who have taken you can take this a little on the game of the game Brace sits on a lot of rights it was a split with Coffee Stein and it is many other bolag som sitter på några sådana här content grejer som jag tror är längre och längre fram.

24:31Daniel Aren:Man gör väl bara filmer det är fortsättningsfilmer och det är bakfilmer och nu kommer någon otecknad Viana med Dwayne Johnson och liksom man bara matar de här kända titlarna som är content istället för att skapa nytt. Så det ligger väl verkligen i tiden. Här finns det väl inte så mycket att göra i Warner Bros. Discovery man får se lite vad som händer med de här buden och vem som vinner but I will thank you for a good time I think

24:59Mark Holmgren:but what you can think here is Jared Kushner is involved in Paramount or it is AOL and then it is Larry Ellison is also

25:12Daniel Aren:his son is well in Paramount and he is well in the field

25:15Mark Holmgren:and Larry Ellison is Oracle-grunner and the biggest they have a report today by the way Oracle I'm quite sure that they have it. That's how you hold a look at it. For the first report was very special when they were trying to get back 400 billion dollars.

25:32Daniel Aren:And the one has gone pretty bad since then. The one got pretty bad.

25:36Mark Holmgren:The one got up 30 % since then.

25:38Daniel Aren:Report in the morning, 10 December. Okay, in the morning then. So you've become our AI-specialist here without really taking a post. So you have a new open AI, Oracle report. Have you any more?

25:50Mark Holmgren:On the temat here with Warner So it's Larry Ellison Will also create a media They should create a media Jätte Via Paramount Jair Kushner is involved there And is a role in the world But if Netflix Could buy Warner Discovery There seems to be quite clear That it must go via A concurrence process And it can be knifish Because Netflix is so big So we'll see Trump and Larry Ellison They've done this AI-project With how many billion dollars So they've been a little bit So we'll see

26:31Daniel Aren:What say you about AI? You should look at Google It känns like you've been In a way that OpenAI is a little Pressing. It came a new With Microsoft in the last week About that they didn't have the same After-refering on their new agent and like. Then you got a short dip. Then it was full fart again. Then it was a little with the Nvidia chip to China that they got to be good-willed. Now they flashed that China would be able to do it.

26:56Mark Holmgren:It came interna memos from OpenAI that they should end up all. Alla should go back and work on the next version. For they were panicked when Google slaps the new Gemini version. And now they should OpenAI släpper. Next version, I think it's 5.2 And the It's coming in the day In this week Google has gone As a ticket since Gemini släpptes So I I don't think Google Ska go down so much I think more Rally Stålar out And Kanske Not gasar Lika under the period of open AI came with its new version. But everything depends on how the new version is. Is it good or better? How do you feel? I don't know. It's very many people who do it.

27:55Mark Holmgren:You're sitting on Reddit. It's very many people who do it. It's a lot of tests. It's a feeling of a sense. You're better. But it's in all the way that's interesting. The cap-up thing. And then open AI is of course more pressable than what Google is. In all the way, financially. They are not paying much money, they have not for the intäkter to pay the cost of money. They are based on how to pay money all the time. Google has not that problem.

28:25Daniel Aren:And then we continue to the crypto-save where you have become a little bit more than you.

28:30Mark Holmgren:I have both Bitcoin and Ethereum. And what did it do?

28:35Daniel Aren:It has been a strong We've got a newbie from 120 to 81 000. Now we've got to up to 90. Where have you got to buy? I'm going to follow your...

28:44Mark Holmgren:Ethereum has got around 3 000. And Bitcoin has come in on 90 300. Yeah, exactly. 90 300. And I think it's going to go up. Yeah, it's an analysis. It's retail in December. There have come quite a lot of new things. I Ethereum's fall så tycker jag att Polymarket är väl... Jag tycker inte det jag har fått än. Det är många som skriver om det såklart. Men läser man Wall Street Journal eller Financial Times eller Politico eller det spelar ingen roll vilken egentligen mediehus eller analysfirma som är värd sitt namn. Alla hänvisar till Polymarket. Så fort de har en take eller de har en analys so all of the time is with and so how the odds are out on Polymarket or Predictions Market it's the Calshi also but it's especially Polymarket that I think has a lead there

29:46Daniel Aren:and they don't even know in the USA now they're going to be able to do this in the day exactly

29:50Mark Holmgren:they've got a good deal but it's the first real I think it's the first real application which has been slated through the whole way. It's actually something that's what's happening. Polymarket is doing it on blockchain. Bets are doing it on Polygon which is a second layer to Ethereum. And then it USDC.

30:18Daniel Aren:And then it is USDC

30:21Mark Holmgren:which is stablecoin on Ethereum blockchain. So far you do a bet so it's a smart contract. and you matchas with someone who takes a bet so it shows how it can work and Polymarket has no hand on the they have no hand on the list, it's the ones who put up all this but they don't hold your money so it's pretty fantastic how it works and especially adoption rate it's many that many uses it and especially media and the finance sector etc. They have been named it as a form of wisdom of the crowds. Instead of having polls. This is much more interesting. It's not just people who have put their money away your mouth.

31:21Mark Holmgren:Which I think it's worth more than if you just ring people and ask all the time. Yeah

31:28Daniel Aren:Sen kanske du inte får alla spektrum då Nej Alla typer av människor kanske inte sitter på Polymarket Nej, nej

31:34Mark Holmgren:Men de pågräster sitter det Ja, men du kanske får mer initiierade som har mer koll, läser på mer etc Och det är väl mycket mer intressant Ja Tänker jag med Och hur har du tagit Det är lite som när man pratar aktier Hur kul hade det varit att sitta och lyssna på oss om vi pratar om aktier vi inte köper eller säljer Nej, nej Det är helt ointressant i min värld

31:53Daniel Aren:Och hur har du tagit exponering då? Du snackar bitcoin och ethereum

31:58Mark Holmgren:Yeah, it's so I've started. It's the easiest, most liquidation. Not as high as altcoins. Even if I think that they should go first. Then you take the other servers. It's on altcoins then.

32:15Daniel Aren:And think you're in December, I'm going to say that December was a little worse kryptomånade than many other. October and the other. January.

32:23Mark Holmgren:October. Yeah, it can be Many people talk about crypto I don't think it I think that Polymarket Breakthrough Is underscattated I think that It shows what's possible And then you have other Newities, Harvard That they have invested In half a billion dollars In Bitcoin Ethereum has done The last update Fosaka Heter den Luxemburg statliga investeringsfond har köpt 1 % i bitcoin Texas investerar ytterligare Tjeckens centralbank har gjort sitt första köp visserligen om en miljon dollar men det är inte så mycket men ändå Som du? Men som vanligt man köper inte jättemycket av portföljen men lite exponering jag tror att den vi ska ju ta in den i modellportföljen som vi har med Saver.

33:24Mark Holmgren:Det kommer en uppdatering om det i veckan. Det blir väl på temat guld. I den delen av portföljen. Någon form av icke-kollererat. Även om bitcoin hittills har varit väldigt kollererat med risk om. Men vi ska ta in lite bitcoin i portföljen.

33:49Mark Holmgren:Och apropå our crypto-affaires now, so can we tub our sponsor Virtune which we use their products when we buy crypto so I have bought their Bitcoin and Ethereum product. Ethereum product is stake-ed so you also get staking - of gift. And which are you have bought? I have bought the Virtune stake to Ethereum ETP where you get the stake in and the Ethereum. And then we have bought Virtune Bitcoin Prime with the P &P. Framförallt i modelportföljen, den har en lägre årsavgift, så den lämpar sig bättre om man ska äga långsiktigt.

34:29Daniel Aren:Precis, och då är de ju 100 % fysiskt backade. Du är enkel och bekväm och upp konst, du behöver ju ingen plånbok. Du kan handla det via ISK hos din ägtmäklare, det är det du har gjort.

34:41Mark Holmgren:Precis, så att man slipper skatterapporteringen och så får man stakingen i Ethereum som jag nämnde. Och 100 % fysiskt backade reglerade svenska. Det känns bra.

34:53Daniel Aren:Snyggt! Och de har ju väldigt många andra produkter om man är intresserad, om man inte bara vill titta på Bitcoin och Ethereum bland annat Cardano, Polkadot, Near, Avalanche Polygon, Chainlink Arbitrum, Sui och även sina indexprodukter. Så de har ju ett väldigt brett utbud och då är det ju bara skriva Vertune hos sin nätmäklare så får man ju upp deras olika produkter och sen är det bara att välja. Eller så går man in på Overtune.com om man vill läsa ännu mer om de här produkterna.

35:22Mark Holmgren:Precis. Och i den här Virtune Bitcoin Prime så är årsavgiften 0 ,25%. Så det är väldigt lågt. Och i Ethereum så är stakingen 1 ,5%. Så det är en sån här årlig extra avkastning man får som bakas in med produkten. Det är de två som vi har köpt här. Snyggt!

35:44Daniel Aren:Och om vi hoppar vidare i Fed och Index dag vad har du för vidare? Det är Fed imorgon. it's probably... On Polymarket, should you look at it, is it 90 % that they're going to do it?

35:54Mark Holmgren:It's like a done deal that they're going to do it. They're going to do it. We'll see if it's a hawkish cut. It can be it.

36:03Daniel Aren:95 % has Polymarket.

36:05Mark Holmgren:We'll see how it's going to do it. How hawkish is it. They're going to continue to do it next year. It's very much economic data that they don't come in. or the ones that come in quite long back, we're still in in September on a certain data, I don't think that the data will be normal, that you can look on it ordently for February so Fed fly a little bit and

36:37Daniel Aren:will the price go up or or will it happen to you? I think so I think that

36:44Mark Holmgren:he's going to 0 ,25 and if it was a hawkish cut then the market will see it because then they will say you will not be still not kvar soon and then it can also be so if I say something all the way for dumb so Trump will appoint next Fed-chef which will become a form of scug-chef shadow-fed and then you will see if it will become

37:14Daniel Aren:Hassett

37:15Mark Holmgren:Hassett.

37:16Daniel Aren:I've read that Walsh had a new one. Another one. Yeah, it's a mn. Like a man, not a oddson. Not a one that they've been.

37:23Mark Holmgren:Yeah. But then we'll see Hassett start talking more about the future and what he thinks and how he should be. And then it'll be over-skugging what Powell actually did on the Fed the last months when he was left. And then we'll see what Powell said. Or see for me.

37:43Daniel Aren:I saw a interview with Jeffrey Gundlach, Bond King. He talks about what you've been talking about. That the central bank sänker rentan, but 10-year-old goes up. So there's still a difference or difference here that the market doesn't really hold on. And that's what we have with statskulder and other things.

38:03Mark Holmgren:Statskulden doesn't go down.

38:05Daniel Aren:Now we're going to gas us over it.

38:07Mark Holmgren:Precis. And then the market can be skeptic. Maybe with this, maybe not. but that Besant and Trump have thought to gasa through this they want to grow it. It's the theory of 3-3-3 3 % budget underscores 3 % to the average and 3 % inflation if you do it over a 10-year period then it's not a big problem anymore.

38:35Daniel Aren:We'll see if we can do it. Will you say anything more before we end of the end? They're on the way to get out of the way. So soon there's no room left.

38:42Mark Holmgren:No, exactly. But it's a Lucia-vecca. It's a mid-winter-rekyl. The one will probably come here. I'm long. I've seen a lot of cash. I've never done anything in the index just now. It can change in the evening or in the morning. But it's a... It's a retail-styrt now in December. Many bonus are sat in finance. On Wall Street is sat. So it's no one who has so much to do that. I'll look at the new year's case.

39:16Daniel Aren:You'll see if it's some who's going to get out some completely gone. We don't want to have any action. Have you any? You'll see on Bone Support and True Caller and all of these. Those who have been large and they'll be mid-caps which have gone very bad. Those I'll look at.

39:35Mark Holmgren:I'll look at it. So you'll see. the year-skiftes-effekten borde ju typ kunna vara större även utomlands i andra länder som inte har ISK och sånt då är det att man ska sälja den som har gått dåligt och sen ska den köpas tillbaks så där kan man ju titta jag såg att Nike till exempel är ner ganska mycket i år Lullemon är ner 50 % det finns allt möjligt roligt att titta på

40:03Daniel Aren:och sen i slutbasnittet så har vi ju lite AI-intervju with Saver, with a VD and Head of Product.

40:10Mark Holmgren:So even more AI-interview. They are probably more aware than what we are. Yeah, exactly. And especially it's a bit of a talk to someone who implemented it on the day and day. And especially in the industry and finance that we're on.

40:24Daniel Aren:Yes!

40:30Daniel Aren:Today we're a little AI-special with Saver. And then we're with us VD Daniel and Mark Holmgren who is the product manager. Welcome to Phil &Killpodden. Thank you. How is the situation on Saver? Is it fullt ös inför jul? It's fullt ös. We have been able to do a transaction in the back of the bank where we have been forced by the bank. It's very exciting on long basis, but on a short basis we continue to be on. AI is the lead of it, so it's interesting. Cool. Let's talk a little internt with you. How much are you using AI? All of them say that they use so much all the time. Yes, we just as many others can do it in two.

41:17Daniel Aren:We use, just as all the other, AI itself for productivity and coding. All of them are looking for. But we have also started to integrate AI in the product for the customer. And it feels a little bit more. It's a very nice job. You can see it as an extern. Exactly. There is a whole lot to do so we'll talk about it. Can you tell us some examples? We talked a little earlier about it, but what can the AI use for example? We have a feature that we have live today. It's our new flow, it's our dubletters. We have a function on the act of the side where you can find a similar company or peers. It's based on a business model or you can sort the link in the products and services that the company offers.

42:14Daniel Aren:We have also our podbevalking that we have a company that has been mentioned in the pod. We have a new agent for every company that has been made of the new from the last day. So we are quite long here but there is much more to do and the temperature will be able to do it. Yes, and it is a bit more spain about how you do it. For example, a company like a other company can look like an easy thing but it means that we have crawled and read a lot of all the companies to really understand what they do. and with that information can you build a lot of fun and you can also draw it even more longer now we compare it with the most likely but you can think instead of looking after the most likely Fortnox 2016 most and use it for to find a lot of likely so it can be a cool thing and a little as you said with the new ones, it feels like AI is to make sure and to make sure for the customer.

43:30Daniel Aren:Or you don't have time to read all the new ones. Then maybe AI can summarize it. It feels like that's what it does now. That's how much time it takes. Absolutely. It's where we started. It's a very important informationbrus. We have a lot of portfolio. We have a lot of bombardment with press releases. So the agent we have who always read all the press releases to you and you can sort them and make them and make them a lot of time. So this new flow we have invested a lot in. And it seems like, I read a lot of new things from companies that are not in the world in the world, that is very rarity.

44:09Daniel Aren:For then there are 100 new things from Yahoo Finance and you don't understand anything about this. Or where it comes from. It feels very nice if someone can take out what has said and what is it that happens here. I hope to a little bit of a spaning but I think it will be even more important because fraud is going to be a trough trend with deepfakes and misinformation it's not just an investment but there it will be it will be difficult for retail investors it will be many different types of koordinerade missinformation om bolag. Ja men absolut det känns ju dels kanske hackade hemsidor vi hade ju fingerprintar för länge sedan, det var något fejk att du med Samsung och det kändes ju väldigt tidigt, hur vet man vad som är äkta, vad som kommer från bolaget

45:04Mark Holmgren:Jag tänker mig även AI som en truth teller också, som en motreaktion mot det vi har ju redan lite speciella pressmeddelande från vissa sektorer, pratar vi biotech så ibland kan pressmeddelarna vara, man vet inte om studien var bra eller dålig, där tänker jag mig att om man har en AI som summerar snabbt, som plockar ut. Som gemene man kan inte särskilt mycket om hur en studie är gjord eller om resultatet är bra eller dåligt. Men en AI kan ju se det rätt snabbt.

45:30Daniel Aren:Det är en rätt intressant grej. Vi har också märkt det när vi har gjort diverse användarintervjuer att folk tycker att chat-GPT är alldeles för positiv. Den håller ju alltid med mig om min tes och så vidare. Så det finns ju absolut någonting där att även se till så att that AI is so truth-seeking as possible.

45:50Mark Holmgren:Yes, exactly. You can quickly look at data in a biotech-studio and say that this study failed. Because it takes time to read some press - before you come to the end of the day.

45:59Daniel Aren:I think that if you take it out of the way and look at the future, where we are on the way. I think that first of all, you'll see that AI will be a co-pilot to your investerings. That means that you are there for helping you to sort out of the information, It can help you to get the pressure release faster. And go longer and longer to get a job like a rådgivare that is there to be a job. It can also help you to to avoid different types of typical miscities that you do with retail. If you are impulsive and be there to be a job on the side. And then, if you look even longer on the other side, are the agents that are very good.

46:43Daniel Aren:When you say, ARIN sköta allting åt dig det tror jag det är ytterligare nästa steg där du har i princip en riktig robot som handlar åt dig men där tror jag, om vi går tillbaka till också de här fallgroparna, jag tror att det kommer att många som kommer att försöka lova att sälja Alfa med ARIN till retail och det tror jag lite den här snake oil-försäljningen det är väl min känsla av att that the AI that will be available to public for retail investors that will be able to reach the alpha over index, that's not what I think. That's what I'm going to be a little bit about. There will always be AI that, like Medallion or Citadel or the type of hedge fund that has used AI for to handle in the year 10.

47:35Daniel Aren:But that public AI model or a KTPT should handle and slow index, That's what I think you should be very skeptical. And it's been we've met. Many people have been able to create an AI robot and they're still on the playa and very few people have been able to talk about it. It's easy to back test and it's good. But then when it comes to reality, it's not the same thing. I think that if someone has managed to build it then they won't sell it. If you have someone who really loves guld and grønne skog and just like this, so you're going to go to index. There you go. But it goes, it's going to be a bit.

48:16Daniel Aren:And it feels like it was like before the time we all had a bankman, a rådgivare so it feels like a sell in point that people will try to do it. Here is your rådgivare fast i AI. And then it's very difficult to get it.

48:30Mark Holmgren:And then it's primarily AI just like the algorithm before. They have found a anomaly that they can use on the way and then it's going to work. It's why many of the algorithms that have been erbjudged to be done before it's not working. It's not that no one works on it and does not work anymore. There is AI a chance that if it is self-learning that it can be noticed but it's also where you can try to spore framtiden. AI is based on what you already know. So it can be a little curve fitting there If it's for much historical data And the world changes

49:12Daniel Aren:What are the more trends Both short and long-sikt In AI In perhaps finance I think that just now Is it very much AI-specific features That you hear even when we talk about Now we've been building this AI feature And we've been building that AI feature But I think that In the tempo that it goes now so you will not talk about what is AI and not AI but I think it will be so integrated in each feature, each feature, each feature you use. So I think it's a little period now when it's new. But then I think I don't even think about it but it will be a a lot of everything you do. But I can also think about the interface for how you invest are can change.

50:00Daniel Aren:Alltså, nu är ni vana med hur Saver ser ut och Avansa och Nordnet ser ut. Man tittar på en aktie och man handlar om ett orderbok, men det kanske blir mer ett chat-interface. Precis som vi börjar vänja oss vid att interagera med AI genom chat-GPT och liknande. Det kanske mer bara handlar om att du skriver i en chat. Jag vill diversifiera min portfölj så här. Eller sälj lite av detta och köp lite av detta. Och sen så är det en AI som sköter själva transaktionerna och gör allting åt dig. so it can be a completely different interface so it's it's a lot of fun and it's still quite a bit it's just a little bit of a it's just a little bit of a it's just a little bit of a it's just a darkpulse so it's just a to say to someone that I want to buy this I want to buy this some time today and then let an AI bevaka that yeah that you buy a little over the day or something so that it's absolutely that you can't give kunders so back as a phone like a full circle it was it I thought

50:57Mark Holmgren:It's been so many regulations on many of these platforms. In the world had you a private company that rang you and pitched you in a company that came with cases. Or you think about this, or you think about it, or you think about it, after whom the customer is and what they're doing. It's a dream to have a smart... Full circle. ...intern that ring and pitched you when you don't get to see things. Absolutely.

51:25Daniel Aren:It will be tested if you want to know it. It's a lot of new. We have a thing we are working on a little bit now. It's called a better name called Bevacningsagent. We have today the new agents that have happened to the last 24 hours. and here we will add a lot more data all that is on platforms so reports, podcasts, earnings calls and so on and what this will do is to create both very broad all that you can hold a whole portfolio or a market or a sector but you can also create very specific revisions after a certain trigger on the market so for example if you invest in biotech so you can have an agent that's out and just let it after every time that a company has done it with a phase 3 study or why not a big event that's just a that's just a company that's historically gone bad but where the fundamentalists start to look good and then just trigger and inform you or just notify you precisely from the time and give you the information that you want to have so that yeah it's probably something there that we can do quite soon

52:43Mark Holmgren:That can be magical. I have a little... When Costco took in gold bars so that you could buy it, then it just went long for gold. Then you knew that after the question had been long so long that Costco took in. It was not so long since they took in platinum bars here. So these kind of things can be used to have when it comes a release that they can sell new things. It's a alpha in it, really.

53:07Daniel Aren:It's cool that it's been a time ago that it has been on a new level when you set up so many things. But with AI, it's on the semantics of the meaning. So the better you can describe what the trigger is, the more träffsäker will it be when you're going to be when you're going to read all the new things and reports. So yeah, it should be a good thing. Have you noticed anything from the customers? Are people just going to buy a lot of AI-fonder and AI-actier? Or has it gone up and down? or there are we a little bit of all the other I'm going to be forsaken with that speckling in AI-bubblan and that it's not a matter of course I can't speckle it frit I'll leave it to Mark I just know I just know how much we use AI internt for to build things and what the end of the end sits in such a like cursor and all that even what designers sit and build things and sometimes and skip, like, productions, red och kod.

54:07Daniel Aren:Och de här tjänsterna, de kostar mycket pengar. Så att det är utan tvekan så att vi genererar mycket pengar till de här bolagen. Så att ja, det är säkert en bubbla, men ja, det är fortfarande mycket pengar som går till de bolagen. Ja, men verkligen.

54:24Mark Holmgren:Hur ser ni i framtiden då för, jag vet inte om ni tittar på det, som ett portföljverktyg? Alltså, många kunder kanske är inne och man köper aktier, man köper lite fonder, man köper ETF-er. Men just det här med portföljteori är ju kanske inte något som många inte riktigt har koll på. Vad är min totala risk i portföljen? För det skulle ju möjliggöra ett exempel för att man blir som sin egna då kan man vara som en egen liten fond.

54:51Daniel Aren:Ja, jag tänkte precis säga det. Det är väl absolut en spaning. Det hade ju inte varit jättesvårt för oss att simulera en fond on our side. Instead of investing in a fund we create a syntetic portfolio or a syntetic portfolio that deals like a fund. And then A-agent.

55:19Mark Holmgren:Or what happens if I change this? What will be my beta against index? Instead of having a fund

55:26Daniel Aren:you just describe how you want to invest in your fund. and then you can set up the rules and then you can do it and then you can do it so that it can be a a lot of classic fund-for-valtning it's not possible it's not possible there are some different layers of it there are you have a like you describe it portfolio you have a you have a what you want to have in your portfolio and you can help to analyze it and you can and to build a better portfolio. But you also see it more as if you want to have an expansion of different things and that you then snarerate create a instrument. The question is if the difference between instrument and portfolio will be able to get out.

56:16Daniel Aren:It's kind of a bit more interesting that you write a prompt, you generate a instrument that you know that has a expansion of the different companies and you hold a look at it all the time. and maybe it's a bit more than to say but Daniel, you also invest in instrument I have this based on this prompt and so on and it's maybe a bit more than to look at it so in your portfolio here I have my tech-exponering I invest in it with a click rather than I have my portfolio that I have to do it it's like you create a own ETF that you create which is syntetic and regelstyrd i interfaceet istället för att det faktiskt är ett riktigt instrument till vår kunden.

57:01Mark Holmgren:Ja, men också hitta rätt exponering. Alltså det är väldigt lätt att jag vill ha exponering mot AI och sen så börjar man leta bland ETF för fonder och så märker man att det är kanske väldigt stora bolag så det blir inte så lite exponering just mot det man vill så att man just får den där

57:19Daniel Aren:Antingen så har du tesen själv eller så vill du ha hjälp med tesen också. Ja, men någon som man kan jobba fram.

57:24Mark Holmgren:how do I get the cheapest but best exponents? Absolutely.

57:29Daniel Aren:What do we think more about 2026? What do you think about the site? What do you think about it? What do you think about it? It's a lot of things. The first part of the topic will be launched on the day. It's a lot of things for your portfolio. I'll just say something that's important. Then we'll take a little more of a screener. So that you can talk about. So that you can describe what you're looking for in the usual word. So, low value, high value, stable finance. And then you can do it to the right filter. So you can use a classic screener, but you don't have all the need to know what all the nyckeltal means.

58:21Daniel Aren:So it's a much easier and more intuitive process And especially more pedagogical For those who don't have super cool On all the finance terms It's all two things to look at But it's a lot more I'll hold a little bit No one is a little bit But they're looking at it Yeah, but it's a lot Spännable And like that You can follow AI on the bus It's like it's a little bit Varian a week All the other stuff that's been And then they'll try to Michael Burry and then you can scream a little bit.

58:52Mark Holmgren:It's probably probably the value of the AI, not the AI in itself. It's not that AI is not here for us to go in a rasable takt. But it's probably the price of it.

59:04Daniel Aren:Yeah, and I think it's difficult to see where the parts of the world will be going to get into the market of the wind margin. where it's a lot of people who call it the chat-capital rappers that means that they just only buy on applications but it's just a package of AI-models in the background. And there can be a little bit of a bubble. A lot of companies are paying more for AI-token than what they have paid for the customer. but the underliggande foundation models print absolutely money because it's where the intäkter rinner much and then you go to the Nvidia and even more back there in hardware so the question is where the value of the market is is where the margin will be found the one is difficult

1:00:07Mark Holmgren:What models are you using? Are there any different models?

1:00:13Daniel Aren:We have no own models, but we use primarily Alphabet and OpenAI. And all the different types of models. or something they deliver. So, sometimes we need to get faster results in the Google Flash. Gemini. Gemini Flash-modeller are very good. Inga own models yet. Inga own models, but we build in the right term and own vector-databas? Yes, exactly. If you want to go into the AI-wrapper - we have built a rag for to carry new things. and all the data that's on the platform will be going to have in this rag. And it's exactly the same technique that Perplexity uses if you're talking to them. And they're one of the most known and I don't know what they're doing to.

1:01:10Daniel Aren:And we've noticed that we can build a very like experience that Perplexity has done based on this. And it was not so that complicated. So it can be a little that it might be a little in a wrapper bubble but it's so that it's really worth to get in all information in a database so that you can try what you want to do and get a very safe result just as you were talking about earlier if you're out of a specific trigger or what a a vd has communicated in a specific order call, then you need a database that has tagged up all the content so that you can just get out and then get it to be done. Without that, then it's very very weird and a lot of information to be able to do it.

1:02:03Daniel Aren:And then I think it's going to be interesting if it comes to some AI-to-art-bolag to the Nordic Börse. It's like now that you're talking about and it's going to be a negative or positive new about AI. Then it's very much in the USA. But in Sweden there's no really clock-open-actie to handle on the whole of AI. It's a little Atlas Copco, it's a little Munters. It's a little bit of money.

1:02:23Mark Holmgren:but otherwise I'm not too much with.

1:02:25Daniel Aren:So that's what I think. And you see that there's a lot of a lot of resources now so it's like people should pass on now when it's in the hype. In the of the hit AI-related has been able to do it in the Nordic. Yeah, we've got a lot of AI-for-svars-related. Exactly. Tips to all the other. All the other stuff. Yeah, but then we'll follow up next year what you've implemented and then you'll come out and tell when you've got to get new functions. It's good. Absolutely, thank you for coming

1:02:59Daniel Aren:Then we have the fill and kill I say well that fillen it is that you have been looking at me at the same boat, for if I sjunker I will be with someone in my own Yeah, exactly and killen is it feels like att bolagen har gått in lite i vintlov redan. Det kommer inte mycket nyheter på morgonen. Det känns som att det är väldigt lugnt på bolagsfrågan.

1:03:29Mark Holmgren:Ja, det känns som att det är tidigt i året så att det skulle bli lugnt. Det brukar vara lite crazy action. Jag tycker igår måndag var superlugnt och hittills idag har det inte varit någon action heller. Men det är Fed imorgon så det kanske är bara en transportsträcka till det.

1:03:40Daniel Aren:Yes. Och sen kan man kontakta oss Facebook, Instagram, Twitter filokivpoddenatgmail.com Och sen vill vi tacka för invar i media och vår härliga klippare. And then we have a disclaimer, I'm using I'm using a Telsat Of what we've talked about, I'm using a Virtune Cardano and Solana

1:03:59Mark Holmgren:I'm using a Telsat I'm using Cardano Or a little Cardano Lite Bitcoin And then I'm using a QCRS But meme stock It can be when it's when it's Yeah, it was probably them I've mentioned Yeah, I think so

1:04:18Daniel Aren:Over and out, so Just what is it that you want to do? We want to be free We want to be free to do what we want to do And we want to get loaded And we want to have a good time

1:04:32Mark Holmgren:And that's what we're going to do We're going to have a good time We're going to have a party