5 Years / 5 Movies, Spinal Tap II, The History of Sound, RIP Robert Redford

17:02Adam Kempenaar:And as much as I genuinely love Grave of the Fireflies, it's not a movie I want to rewatch again and again on my desert island. Yeah, makes sense. That's fair. Okay. 99 was in my top five all-time movie years, and 95 was another good option. So I thought about that. At the time, I had 2007 as my number one movie year, and a lot of people feel that way. So I thought, well, what are the four years on the other side, on each side of 2007? There was a lot to consider. And after doing all of that, in the end, I stuck to my list. And here's what I like about it. It's mine. There is nobody else in the world who is going to come up with a list this nutty.

17:48Adam Kempenaar:All my honorable mentions are great lists, but they are lists that reasonably another cinephile might choose. Not my top five. What's the unifying theme? If I really do only have five movies left, they have to be movies I think are great, But they also have to be movies I love to watch over and over again. They have to be comfort movies, I think, Josh. They have to be nostalgic movies. They have to be movies that originally made me fall in love with movies. Like my liberal arts education, it's not well-rounded. It's not remotely sight and sound worthy. Canon be damned. But you know what? But for me, that wasn't the assignment.

18:40So look at it this way.

18:42Adam Kempenaar:At least here we're doing our audience a service. Our listeners will know who the real cinephile is between the two of us. And we'll see. Ironically, ironically, the anchor movie is one I didn't see until I was a film student. So I couldn't have been nostalgic about it. No, it wasn't part of the curriculum. And the year, well, I was barely watching cartoons at this point. My five-year period is 1979 to 1983. Man, you're just swaddling yourself in that nostalgia blanket, aren't you? You betcha. My first film chronologically, and I did end up with a film from each year. It was tough, but I did. Impressive.

19:37Adam Kempenaar:Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. From 1979, my first movie is All That Jazz. James Kimberling, if you're out there, he's the guy who said, you have to watch All That Jazz. He talked about it constantly as we got to know each other that that first year, my lone year as an MFA student in film school. We rented it from Facets. We watched it in his little apartment in Lakeview as film students one Friday night. And it was over for me, Josh. The Fosse hook was in me. I had heard of it, of course. I think I resisted it because at the time I didn't care at all about Broadway musicals. So why would I care about a movie about Broadway musicals?

20:25Adam Kempenaar:I had no concept that it was about mortality. My favorite subject then, still my favorite subject. I had no concept that it was about filmmaking in addition to being about the stage. I had no concept it was about sex and love and about the things you'll say and do to get sex and to feel loved. And it was about coming to terms with being a great artist while being a mostly terrible person, while also feeling like you might not even be that great of an artist. And that makes me think of the memorable bit in the movie where Joe Gideon, Bob Fosse's alter ego in the movie played by Roy Scheider is talking to Jessica Lange's angel, who's named Angelique in the film.

21:12Adam Kempenaar:And he says, nothing I ever do is good enough, not beautiful enough. It's not funny enough. It's not deep enough. It's not anything enough. And I've read the biography and it would make sense that him making an honest movie about himself and having an honest portrayal of himself that that this would be true. And by all accounts, it really was true. This is really how Fosse was, no matter how much praise he got, no matter how many awards he won, all the accolades. He felt that way. It was never anything enough. And Gideon says, now, when I see a rose, that's perfect. I mean, that's perfect. I want to look up at God and say, how the hell did you do that?

21:51Adam Kempenaar:And why the hell can't I do that? And she says, no, that's probably one of your better con lines. so you know he calls himself out for it and Gideon says yeah it is but that doesn't mean I don't mean it to be on the wire is life the rest is waiting that's very theatrical Joe yeah I know did you make it up I wish I had you like it well it's all right it's showtime folks as far as I'm concerned Josh, it just always has to be Showtime. It's going to be Showtime, folks, for as long as I'm making decisions about what movies get to stick around. So 79 and All That Jazz is my first choice.

22:40Josh Larsen:Something of a relief because All That Jazz, not the cheeriest of movies, but when you said 79, I thought you were going to go Apocalypse Now. I thought, not a comfort movie at all to take to

22:51Adam Kempenaar:I'll get to a mention of that next, but not on my list. You're right. All right.

22:56Josh Larsen:So we're moving for me from, you know, at number five, Ikuru, to the ultra snooty, the ultra cinephile pick here. Gentlemen prefer blondes.

23:15Michael Phillips:We're just two little girls from Little Rock.

23:19Josh Larsen:Come on. 1953. A movie musical with Marilyn Monroe, with Jane Russell, just letting them loose on a cruise ship. Yes, this works. It works even better than that premise because everyone here is firing on all cylinders. They play a pair of showgirls who they basically know that the world is going to judge them for their bodies based on their bodies. So they figure out we might as well exploit that fact. So you have Monroe's Lorelei. She's after money. Russell's Dorothy. she's after sex and if they find love along the way well you know even better that that's a bonus uh this thing is smart this is hilarious it is exhibit a for me as um pointing to marilyn monroe's comic chops that she should be thought of as a comic actor first and she does get of course the iconic number diamonds are a girl's best friend but for sheer fun i don't know if you can do any better than Russell with a crowd of men in the beefcake extravaganza.

24:23Josh Larsen:Anyone here for love? I can't play tennis, my golf's a man. I just can't do the Australian crawl. And I'm no better at volleyball. Ain't there anyone here for love? Sweet love. All right. So the auteurists among us, you know, the real cinephiles are probably gritting their teeth that I haven't yet mentioned. This is directed by Howard Hawks. So there you go. And yes, I do quite like that this pick also gives me a chance to include one of the all-time filmmakers. So you're talking, you know, the man behind His Girl Friday, behind Rio Bravo, and Gentlemen Prefer Blondes, which I'm thrilled to have on my list.

25:01Josh Larsen:Talk about or repeat, viewer, this is it.

25:05Adam Kempenaar:For what it's worth, I don't think of Gentlemen Prefer Blondes as ultra snooty, though you're right. Howard Hawks is the auteur theorist auteur, for sure. And unlike All That Jazz, Gentlemen Prefer Blondes was on my film school curriculum. It was on the syllabus, though that was on my film studies syllabus, not my film production syllabus. My next pick, though, Josh, decidedly not ultra snooty. And look, I could have stuck with 1979 here. I would have been happy to stick with 1979 for my next choice and said, yeah, Francis Ford Coppola, Apocalypse Now. I could take that on my desert island. We did a sacred cow discussion of that just last August.

25:56We gushed about that film, but I've got another Pantheon film from 1980, one we haven't revisited yet.

26:07Adam Kempenaar:And I know that you may think you know where I'm going, and it's probably where I should be going. Because we will at some point discuss this movie, but it's not where I'm going. Okay. Because I've searched my feelings, and I know it to be true. It must be part of this list. The Empire Strikes Back. That's where I thought you were going. Okay, I thought maybe you were thinking. I did say it was an ultra snooty. If I was forming a more respectable list, I would, of course, have gone Raging Bull, a movie I also love from 1980. But no, I'm going Empire. I've talked multiple times on the show about my first truly memorable movie experience being Star Wars, A New Hope at the drive-in.

26:56Adam Kempenaar:Would have been five to six years old. Or it would have been, yeah, it would have been five or six years old. It would have been maybe five to six years after it came out. Or let me do that math again. It would have been, I think it would have been about seven years after it came out. Certainly by the time I saw The Empire Strikes Back, however I saw it first, and I don't actually remember how I saw it, whether it was back at that same drive-in or in a theater or at home. But I'll say this, surely I was too young to be cynical about sequels. I'm sure I would have thought, well, it's Star Wars.

27:34Adam Kempenaar:Of course, it's going to be amazing. It's going to be the greatest thing I've ever seen since the first Star Wars. And it was. It was so amazing and so vividly imprinted on my brain. I remember, and man, last night researching this list, I had never done this before last night. So the warm feeling of nostalgia I got last night was so wonderful. I remember I had the story of the Empire Strikes Back on vinyl. I found the exact cover. Oh, yeah. The exact cover that I had. There were different covers. It told the abridged story of episode five with narration and sound from the film. And I would sit in my room with my record player and I would play it and I would stare at the cover and look at the different images of the movie.

28:27Adam Kempenaar:And I had the whole movie playing inside my head. Han looking for Luke on the Tauntaun, cutting it open. The smell, I smelled it in my bedroom. Josh, I know I smelled it. Putting Luke inside it to keep him warm. the entire At-At attack on Hoth, all of it. Empire Strikes Back gives us Luke and Yoda. It gives us Luke and Vader, the rematch, the twist. Obi-Wan never told you what happened to your father. He told me enough. He told me you killed him. No, I am your father. Our first experience, certainly as kids, as moviegoers, for us with a memorable and still maybe the most memorable plot twist ever.

29:25Adam Kempenaar:I love you. I know. Still one of the greatest bits of dialogue, of exchanges in movie history. I don't know which one predates the other. The picture of me dressed as Superman or the one of me dressed as Han Solo. And when I say dressed as Han Solo, I mean wearing a maroon sweatshirt that either my mom or my uncle had taken downtown to a shop and had the letters, the words pressed onto the sweatshirt that said Han Solo. Wow. I'd wear a sweatshirt. It said Han Solo. And that's how I think I did at this point have his gun. So I'd wear the sweatshirt that said Han Solo and I'd run around shooting the gun.

30:10Adam Kempenaar:So he was either Han Solo was either my first or my first non cape wearing movie hero. And all of that is enough for me, apparently to shun both Apocalypse Now and Raging Bull and put Empire as the second film on my list.

30:26Josh Larsen:I hope while you were listening to that vinyl, you were also sitting on your bed with the Star Wars bed sheets on it.

30:36Adam Kempenaar:Did you have those? Absolutely had. Yep. I had Superman bed sheets at one point and I had the empire strikes back. Yeah.

30:43Josh Larsen:And you know, it was the empire because they were the, they were like the blue from hot blue, right? I think. Yes. The light blue. Oh, what a time. Good time. Oh man. Let's go to a time from before we were born, Adam, uh, way back to the fifties, back to the fifties for me. Uh, I probably could have found a way as you did to make this list without including not only the best film of all time, but my favorite film of all time. I'm able to merge these two here. I could have put together some complex algorithm, you know, working around it, or maybe, maybe choose a different Hitchcock to get that Hitchcock itch.

31:19Josh Larsen:Um, that came from a richer five-year period. Why bother with any of that when I could just put rear window on this list?

31:28Adam Kempenaar:How's your leg?

31:30Josh Larsen:It hurts a little.

31:32Adam Kempenaar:And your stomach?

31:33Michael Phillips:Empty as a football. do you love life not too active anything else bothering you

31:47Josh Larsen:who are you i'm not complicating things your rear window 1954 yes i like it even more than vertigo from 1958 in fact we just did a rear window versus vertigo episode to celebrate both films and kind of force ourselves to pick, I think. Am I remembering right? You're a rear window guy as well, Adam? I think we did both land there, much to my surprise, actually. I know. I know. So yeah, that was so recent, episode 954. I'm not going to belabor the rear window pick here, but I do want to share this choice bit of a homespun philosophy that comes from Thelma Ritter, who plays the nurse to James Stewart's bedridden photographer.

32:36Michael Phillips:her.

32:42Josh Larsen:Best movie of all time, but you know, for chronological reasons, I've got it number three here on my list.

32:50Adam Kempenaar:Okay. Yeah, certainly that was one of those two movies I mentioned that I had to feel was going to be one of your anchor picks from that sight and sound list. There's going to be one very handsome recurring face on my desert island because another Pantheon film starring Harrison Ford is making my cut. From 1981, Raiders of the Lost Ark. I'm not going to bring this up with Michael Phillips later in the show. I know he is a little, he's a little tired, a little beleaguered about how we always bring up and listeners always bring up how he doesn't appreciate Raiders of the Lost Ark. But do you remember, it was a while ago now, do you remember hearing about the black and white cut or did you ever watch any of it that Soderbergh put on his website?

33:46Adam Kempenaar:Oh, that's right. No, I never watched it. No. So I had never watched, I remember hearing about it, and maybe I watched a clip or two of it at the time, because I remember IndieWire did an article about, David Ehrlich wrote about it, and that's how I think it got brought to my attention. But I'd never really gotten deep into it until last night. It is crazy fascinating. And it does almost make me think that if Michael watched it, he would have to come around on the film. And it's not just because he loves everything old timey, but Soderbergh's gambit pays off. He says, and I'm doing some alighting here from his website, but the reason behind it is this understanding story, character, and performance are crucial to directing.

34:35Adam Kempenaar:Well, but I operate under the theory a movie should work with the sound off. And under that theory, staging becomes paramount. So I want you to watch this movie and think only about staging, how the shots are built and laid out, what the rules of movement are, what the cutting patterns are. Oh, and I've removed all sound and color from the film, apart from a score designed to aid you in your quest to just study the visual staging aspect. Wait, what? How could you do this? Well, I'm not saying I'm like allowed to do this. I'm just saying this is what I do when I try to learn about staging. And this filmmaker forgot more about staging by the time he made his first feature than I know to this day.

35:14So Black and White Raiders is effectively a silent movie.

35:19Adam Kempenaar:And here I'm selling this to Michael if he listens or watches. Guess what? It's a pip. Not only do you not lose any of the wonder, it's actually heightened in some instances because of the starkness of the shadows. Douglas Slocum, the cinematographer, shot other films in black and white and knows what he's doing in color or black and white, and it really comes through here. But it forces your eye to note just what Soderbergh says, the staging, and how Spielberg moves the camera, often in relatively subtle ways but still so effectively. And that IndieWire article that David Ehrlich wrote about it, he he lists a few different scenes that that caught his eye, but without going into too much detail.

36:10And one that, Josh, I just think is incredible that I rewound about 17 times last night.

36:19Adam Kempenaar:Watch the scene and we'll link to this in the show notes. Watch this scene in black and white. Maybe it was one that always caught your eye. It never did for me. I always took it for granted. There were bigger sequences that I always paid way more attention to. When Indiana Jones is dressed up like a Nazi, and then he's walking with them in the Ark, and they have Karen Allen, and then he gets away from them, and he steals the rocket launcher. and he goes up to the ridge and they're walking down below. We get this bird's eye shot of the Nazis walking with the Ark and they're walking kind of slowly left to right on screen.

37:00Adam Kempenaar:Spielberg has the camera maybe on a crane, but it's just kind of moving. It's up on the ridge and it's just kind of moving left to right, flowing kind of with them as they're moving left to right. And then as it moves, across the screen, it brings Indy into the frame. And as it brings him into the frame, he kind of rolls his upper body from left to right to get the rocket launcher into position. So three different things happening at three different portions of the frame, and it becomes this beautiful little dance, complete synchronicity between the camera, actor and prop, and multiple actors down below, all moving, all filling the frame.

37:55Adam Kempenaar:And you watch it and you think, one, that couldn't be staged any other way. And two, absolutely no one else would think to stage it that way, which of course is completely contradictory and that's the magic of it. I would be content to dwell on that mystery and the others thematically at the heart of Raiders of the Lost Ark forever. So it's on my list.

38:23Josh Larsen:Yeah. The effortlessness that Spielberg brings to moments like that are maybe his true genius. There's the iconic scenes, which of course are, but when you really take a close lens on every single scene in some of his triumphs. You realize that he's doing that everywhere. He's doing that all the time and making it look like it was, you know, it just fell into place like that. So yeah, Raiders full of those moments. All right. At number two, yeah, we're at number two. I'm going with 1955 film, Ordet. This is from Carl Theodore Dreyer. I know you love this film, Adam at the center of this spiritual drama is this figure who he could be a lunatic.

39:07Josh Larsen:He could be a heretic. He could be a prophet. He could be, he could maybe even be the embodiment of Jesus Christ as he himself claims. This is Johannes played by Preben Lerdorf Rye. He belongs to this extended family of Danish farmers, and they're all going through their own experiences of belief and unbelief throughout this film. They pretty much treat him as mentally ill. However, Dreyer's camera though, interestingly, even though this is a film that's very suspicious and skeptical of religion overall, organized religion for sure. Dreyer's camera grants Johannes this certain sense of spiritual authority.

39:43Josh Larsen:And this is maybe never more true than what I think is the movie's definitive shot, where we see Johannes hurling these pronouncements from atop this grassy bluff. And he's got this heavenly background behind him, these floating clouds. And we're looking at him from above this low camera angle. Of course, there's also the movie's climax, which I am not going to spoil, even though this is a 70 year old movie. I'll just say it also complicates things quite a bit. It leaves us to sit in the, in the staggering, mysterious, transcendent wake of, of this miracle. So, yeah, I figured you'd be happy I have this on the list.

40:24Josh Larsen:I didn't get to it till 2018. Another late watch for me. But man, it lived up to its reputation at that point and then some. So currently it's in that mix for, you know, 11 to 20 best films of all time. For this list, I've got it number two.

40:40Adam Kempenaar:One of my letterboxed four favorites, and it has been for a while. I said I had to strongly consider a five-year period from the 1950s, and Ordet was a major reason why. And if you're pinning me down, I of course believe that it is a more significant film, a more major film, a more indispensable cinematic achievement than my number two pick or my next choice. But on my list for this assignment, I had to have 1982s. Some people out there who've been listening to the show for a while can probably say it in unison with me. The world according to Garp. Garp, speaking of mystery, there was so little I understood about the behavior of the characters John Irving created in the world according to Garp.

41:43Adam Kempenaar:And I am speaking about the characters that were adapted to the screen in the movie. I didn't read the book until I was in high school. Forty years later, though, I'm still grappling with their behavior. year. We must have had HBO in our house installed around 83 because Garp was on all the time and I watched it all the time. There is going to be another occasion later in the year where I'm going to have to talk about this movie and my love for it has already been well documented over the years. So I'm going to do what I usually do. And sometimes you do Josh in these situations. I'll just turn to the book of Roger.

42:23Adam Kempenaar:Ebert gave it three stars out of four, though his review is decidedly mixed to actually negative. And it turns out he hated the book. He says the movie left me entertained, but unmoved. Something has to be wrong, Ebert says, with a film that can take material as intractable as Garp and make it palatable. Later in the review, he gets at the core issue for many of the adaptation. And it speaks to what I was saying. Here again, I'm doing some alighting. The novel, The World Accorded to Garp was, I think, a tragic comic counterpoint between the collapse of middle-class family values and the rise of random violence in our society.

43:03Adam Kempenaar:The bizarre behavior of the people in the novel, particularly Garp's mother and the members of the Ellen Jamesians, is a cross between activism and insanity. And there is the clear suggestion that without such behavior to hold them together, all of these people would be unable to cope at all and would sign themselves into the nearest institution. As a vision of modern American life, Garp is bleak, but it has something to say. The movie, however, seems to believe that the book's characters and events are somehow real, or to put it another way, that the point of the book is to describe these colorful characters and their unlikely behavior.

43:35Adam Kempenaar:I also chose that paragraph just in case anyone was wondering if the world according to Garp might still be relevant right now. And especially with Robin Williams playing Garth, what was very dark material naturally does become softer and more, I suppose, jovial.

43:55Michael Phillips:There's a stop sign there, right? He's just supposed to come to a stop, right? He's just supposed to come to a full stop, right? There could have been children running there. Right, you're a woman. All men. All men, people. Garth, what are you? Right, right. We are civilized people, and civilized people obey rules, you Neolithic dipshit!

44:17Adam Kempenaar:And maybe that act of description of the colorful characters that Ebert's describing is a bit inevitable when you take a very textured novel like Garp and translate it to the screen, where it's going to have to follow a cause and effect kind of chain of events. but as I've said before, this movie had a profound influence on me. I don't think I'd be sitting here doing this show with you right now without a reverence for the creative process that the movie, this movie sparked in me at a really young age, at a too young of an age to be watching this movie, but again, I'm so grateful for that. And one question I would get to wrestle with on my desert Island is, is it actually a good movie?

45:04Adam Kempenaar:And I know this comes up all the time. Whenever we revisit, and I say we, all of us, whenever we go back and look at something we loved when we were kids, we always wonder, is it nostalgia or is it really good? And a lot of times I think we probably confirm our own bias to some extent. And we find that no, objectively we, we like it. It, it still holds up. It's good. Who knows if that's true? Who knows if we still can objectively view it that way? But I certainly try, Josh, when we do that with those films. I really try to view it as much as I can through my current eyes. With Garp, I think the fact is nobody else that I know, and certainly no critic that I know, thinks it's a classic or loves it as much as I do.

45:53And I'm fine with that, but it is the one movie that I can't 100 % trust myself on.

46:00Adam Kempenaar:I really do wonder if it's actually a good movie or what I think it is, a great movie, or is it really just my nostalgic attachment to it and being aware of the influence it did have on me? That's something I would get to think about with it being one of the five final films left. I would need it with me.

46:25Josh Larsen:And I will need to paddle over to your island because still, I made time for all that jazz. After many years of hearing you talk about it on the show, I still need to see the world according to Garp. So yeah, make some space for me and I'll catch up with it there maybe. We're down to number one, another familiar title. This is the other one that, um, you know, made me pick this epic. It's in my top 10 of all time. It's Pader Panchali, 1955. Another one I'm not going to belabor because we gave it ample attention during our Satchit Ray marathon. As I said, it's on my current top 10 films of all time list.

47:00Josh Larsen:Talked about it when we did that show and maybe two or three episodes ago, we actually included the audio of my chat about the movie with Slate's Dana Stevens. That was from film spotting fest last March. We screened Padra Panchali and had a great conversation with Dana afterwards there. So if after all of that, if you are like me with Garp, after all of my praising of Padra Panchali and you still haven't seen Satyajiray's Humble Family Saga, it's set in rural Bengal in the 1920s. Please, please, please, please, please track it down. You will thank me for it. Um, so yeah, uh, I just, I looked at my list, Adam, and I realized it was maybe a cheat code so that I didn't go crazy trying to put this together.

47:47Josh Larsen:Sure. But then I saw, I saw, I've got two Hollywood entertainments. I've got two international landmarks from very different parts of the world. And I've got an anguished crisis of faith art movie from Denmark. So I'm going to be, I'm going to be a happy boy. Sam tried to make me miserable. No, he really doesn't mean that. But yeah, I think if those were the only five films that I had for the rest of my life, I'd be pretty content.

48:13Adam Kempenaar:There's not a lot of just raw entertainment there, but you'd get some good voyeurism in Rear Window. Whoa, whoa, whoa. Rear Window is immensely entertaining. I'm acknowledging that. I'm acknowledging Rear Window. Rear Window is going to have to do a lot of heavy lifting, though, for Father Banjali and Ordit and Nickaroo. That's all. That's what Marilyn Monroe and Jane Russell are for. That's right. You've got them as well. And you know what? I think let's say their broad shoulders can bear it. Josh. Pretty confident of that. Okay. My final choice takes us up to the final year of my period, 1983.

48:54Adam Kempenaar:And it's maybe not shocking, of course, certainly from this period, that I have two appearances by Harrison Ford on my list. I definitely could have never imagined that I'd look at my list and have two appearances by Philip Kaufman. But I do. Because Philip Kaufman wrote or was one of the writers on Raiders of the Lost Ark. And Philip Kaufman wrote and directed my final choice, which is The Right Stuff. One of my all time favorite epic American films and why I think it works so well to culminate my list, Josh, is that I've got two very idealized fantasy heroes for me to strive to be like Han Solo, Indiana Jones.

49:51Adam Kempenaar:I've got two very flawed, very flawed, closer to real heroes to strive to be like in a lot of ways, T.S. Garp and Joe Gideon, who is, of course, representing a real person in Bob Fosse. So why not combine those in the right stuff with flawed, real Mercury 7 astronauts? And I thought there was another occasion where we actually got to talk about this movie. Maybe you can remember what it was because I feel like you just caught up with it recently. Isn't that correct? I think it might have been maybe for one of our movie years list. Yeah, it was 83. We were doing that. But 83, top five films of 83 for sure.

50:44Adam Kempenaar:But that was 2018. And I thought there was another occasion for us to talk about this movie. But looking at my notes, Josh, it really is a case where it feels like it was meant for this list. It was meant to be talked about in relation to these other five films. Because I've talked about heroes, and this is a film that is exploring these myths and these myths about heroes and about masculinity and how heroes can be and sometimes how they even want to be exploited. but it also, I've talked about mystery a few times and this is a film as a kid and even watching it now but certainly as a kid, it was always mysterious to me and I loved that mystery.

51:37Adam Kempenaar:I loved trying to grasp onto what was driving someone like Chuck Yeager chasing the demon. What did that really mean and why? The mythic poetry of that And the way the movie does undercut the heroism of some of the characters in different ways and some of the decisions that they make, some of the enigmatic decisions that characters like Sam Shepard's Chuck Yeager make, that always struck me, that I couldn't grasp onto the characters and everything they did the way I could with most other movies I saw at that age. And again, even now. And here's the other thing that honestly, I didn't fully even register until right now as we're talking about these films and putting it in relation to the other movies on my list.

52:31Adam Kempenaar:I realize to what extent all these films have in common what is ultimately one of my favorite topics to explore, which is this idea of ambition and striving for greatness, striving for achievement, the rewards of that, but also the consequences of that. You take a character like Bob Fosse, like Joe Gideon and all that jazz, who's always trying to create something beautiful and never feeling like he fully achieves it. And the physical and mental demands and toil of that that ultimately, you know, costs him his life, as we see by the end of the film. Even a movie like The Empire Strikes Back, what ultimately is chasing, you know, the dark side of the force, right?

53:31Adam Kempenaar:What is that all about in terms of accepting who you are and chasing more power or not? What does it mean to be a Jedi? That complication. The unchecked power of something like the Ark. And a character like Indiana Jones is someone who seems, although he wants something like the Ark and there's an element of ambition there, he really does seem pretty content to want to study it. And he's more interested in the pursuit of it from an academic standpoint, unlike the Nazis who, of course, want to exploit it for power. Garp, the creative ambition that he is always hoping to exploit aspects of his life, his personal life, to try to turn that into a great piece of literature, trying to write or try to become the great American novelist.

54:26Adam Kempenaar:And then the right stuff, having the right stuff, that phrase itself encapsulates this notion of ambition, doing something that no one's ever done before, breaking the sound barrier, going into space. And that notion of ambition is something that I look for and am always drawn to in art. And it's in cinema, but it's in other pieces of fiction and nonfiction as well. So I guess for me in the end, we already knew it was a personal list. It turns out it truly is a very personal list. And these are all films that I love and could watch again and again. So it feels appropriate. It feels appropriately idiosyncratic.

55:15Adam Kempenaar:And I'm going to stick with 1979 to 83, Josh, as my five years, five movies. Okay. We would love to hear your five-year period and your five films. You can email us, feedback at filmspotting.net. Josh, I'm assuming, or maybe I shouldn't assume because this was torture enough, but do you have any other five-year periods you want to mention? Any other films?

55:44Josh Larsen:You know, as you were setting this up, it sounded like you thought about other periods. I went the other way and I thought about other films from this period. Sure. Okay. So I have some of those I can run through pretty quickly. Yeah. They're mostly canon picks like Umberto D, Earrings of Madame Deux, another film-spotting marathon movie, Sancho the Bailiff, a Mizuguchi film we just watched recently, Adam, Seven Samurai, more Kurosawa, The Night of the Hunter. Here's a few idiosyncratic ones from the period, though, that I was a little tempted to put in. Godzilla. And this one. This is my maybe Garp, Creature from the Black Lagoon, 1954.

56:22Josh Larsen:I don't know if anyone else would even consider it for something like this. But when I saw it was in my 51 to 55 time period, it gave me pause, but I held back.

56:34Adam Kempenaar:Yeah, I think I already mentioned the ones from my period that really gave me pause. And those were Apocalypse Now from 79, Raging Bull from 80. I did think about The Shining from 80, but not really because I didn't really give it a chance over Empire or Raging Bull. I know a lot of people, most people, would go with a movie like E.T., another Spielberg pick from 82, and not The World According to Garp, but that was my choice. I'll give a few honorable mentions here, and I'll start chronologically. from the fifties, my five movies and my five year period probably would have been 55 through 59.

57:19Adam Kempenaar:And well, let, let me be sure about this one. Remind me again, father Panchali, 54 or 55. Okay. So I am right. So father Panchali, Ordet, Knights of Kiberia. Here's why 55 or 57 has to be in consideration. Rio Bravo. And you also can get in there. I don't care if I've got two thirds of the Apu trilogy. I'll take Pader Panchali and World of Apu, which is on my sight and sound list. So 55 to 59. How about this from 94 to 98? Pulp Fiction, Before Sunrise, Fargo, Out of Sight. That's four. And here's the thing. You can also choose for a fifth film or interchangeably, Chunking Express, Lone Star, which I love, and The Sweet Hereafter.

58:13Adam Kempenaar:So, you know, take your pick. 1989 to 93, Do the Right Thing, Goodfellas, Dazed and Confused. Now here, pick two, Malcolm X, Reservoir Dogs, Unforgiven, Glengarry Glen Ross. I'm pretty content with that. My last one, 2010 to 2014. Here again, little idiosyncrasy, 2010, Never Let Me Go, 2011, The Tree of Life, 2012, The Master, 2013, Inside Llewyn Davis, 2014, Boyhood. That's my last honorable mention, Josh.

58:52Josh Larsen:Yeah. I think if I had gone, I'm pulling up, as you mentioned, when we did that top five movie years list a while back, 2017. So I pulled that up. And if I had gone the year route, as you had suggested, again, puts me right at the fifties. Two of my picks were 52 and 59, But then I had 1967, I had 1974, getting a little closer to your list. And then I jumped ahead, which I know you've mentioned 1999, that great movie year. So I could have put a tentpole in at one of those years easily and worked out from that as well.

59:30Adam Kempenaar:You can find our lists and more top fives at filmspotting.net slash lists.

59:36Josh Larsen:Listening is the number one thing you can do to support an independently produced show like ours. Here are a couple more things you can do. Take a minute to give us a rating or review on Apple Podcasts. You can also do this on Spotify. If you're a new listener, go ahead and do it with those fresh thoughts. If you've been listening for 20 years, go ahead and do that as well. Every new review does help us reach new listeners. We do want to also mention the Film Spotting Family. You can support us by joining the Film Spotting Family at filmspottingfamily.com. Special thanks to advisory board member.

1:00:08Josh Larsen:That's the tip top level advisory board member, Mitch Willis in Denver, Colorado. Mitch's letterbox handle. If you want to follow him, there is just Mitch Willis.

1:00:19Adam Kempenaar:Mitch writes, it was my senior year of college at Colorado state, January, 2014. A buddy and I did a double feature of the cones inside Llewyn Davis and Alexander Payne's Nebraska at the old Lyric Cinema Cafe in Fort Collins, Colorado. Buzzing after the brilliance of those two films, I wanted to learn everything I possibly could about them. I just started listening to podcasts, so after a quick movie search in Apple Podcasts, Film Spotting was the first hit. From the first do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do, what kind of a show are you guys putting on here today, and the Wayne's World reference at the top of the Nebraska episode, I knew I had struck gold.

1:00:54Adam Kempenaar:Now, a decade, yikes, later, Film Spotting has been a cornerstone in my journey with film. Adam, Josh, Sam, and Michael are my most trusted voices in film. Thank you for the wisdom, community, and the confidence boost for my own acting abilities anytime I listen to Massacre Theater.

1:01:10Josh Larsen:I believe it, Mitch. Yeah. And I should clarify. If you do want to follow Mitch on Letterboxd, which I just did today, so I should have known this. I'm looking at it again. It's actually Mitch Wills. It is.

1:01:23Adam Kempenaar:No I at the end. No I at the end. W-I-L-L-S. There you go. Yes. Let's get his name right. Thank you for the correction, Josh. A favorite review or segment of Mitch Wills, the Philip Seymour Hoffman tribute top five scenes after he tragically passed. Letterboxd top four. Another Pather Panchali reference. Great. Cleo from five to seven. Great. Children of Men. Great. Inside Llewyn Davis. Great. Letterboxd top four. Not bad. A favorite movie he revisited recently, Alien. A random filmmaker Mitch loves, John Waters. A movie he credits with becoming a cinephile, Ten Things I Hate About You. There's a story there.

1:02:02Adam Kempenaar:We'll have to get that from Mitch at some point. Yeah, maybe so. You're right. I kind of breeze past that. A book about movies or movie making, The Devil Finds Work by James Baldwin. Oh, that's so good. Our thanks to Mitch for joining the family, for advising us, and all those years of listening. In addition to keeping us doing what we're doing, your support comes with perks. You get to listen early and add free. You get our weekly newsletter. You get exclusive opportunities like being part of the FilmSpottingFamily Discord. I don't know if I've seen Mitch's name in there or not, but I could be mistaken.

1:02:30Adam Kempenaar:If not, we'd love to have you in the discord, Mitch. You also get our monthly bonus shows coming up in just about a week. We'll be trivia spotting. Always a fun with quiz master, Thomas Todd. Looking forward to that, Josh, you're getting out of it. Cause I don't know, I guess you have a six hour difference in time zones. Fine.

1:02:48Josh Larsen:Yeah. And I, you know, maybe I have an exam or a paper due the next day, something like that. Whatever.

1:02:54Adam Kempenaar:I'm not using class as an excuse. Well, ask your students about that. Okay. October bonus will be a draft with a family member. We got to get that form out soon to the family. They get a chance to choose a draft topic. We pick a random family member and we do a draft. It'll be fun. We do all sorts of fun things like that with our family members and you get those kinds of benefits. You can learn more at filmspottingfamily.com.

1:03:23Michael Phillips:A lot has happened since the last time I saw you. Have you been playing music at all? I play music at a pub.

1:03:34Josh Larsen:Nigel Tufnel, David St. Hubbins, and Derek Small's return. In Spinal Tap 2, The End Continues, which came to theaters last weekend, came to some IMAX screens, which are maybe the 11 of movie screens. Rob Reiner also back as rock documentarian, Marty DeBerge and as director of the film. So Adam, it's been 40 years since the original Spinal Tap. Has it been almost that long since you've seen a film directed by Rob Reiner? I mean, I think rumor has it you've seen the story of us from 1999 with Bruce Willis and Michelle Pfeiffer. I have vague memories of that myself.

1:04:12Adam Kempenaar:I saw the story of us. I was working at a movie theater at the time and it played and I saw it and I quite disliked it.

1:04:21Josh Larsen:Yeah, I think I think it was I was mid on it, pretty mid on it.

1:04:24Adam Kempenaar:Couldn't find that star rating from my regional news review. But the last the last Rob Reiner film that I've seen, I'm looking at his IMDb and it looks like he's made 10 films between 2003 and 2023. Maybe I saw the Albert Brooks documentary Defending My Life and I think I liked it. I honestly can't remember because I think another Albert Brooks, or I thought another Albert Brooks documentary came out, but I did see The Bucket List in 2007. Can't say I enjoyed that either, Rob Reiner.

1:04:54Josh Larsen:Okay. You enjoyed Spinal Tap 2? You know what?

1:04:57Adam Kempenaar:Yeah. Redemption. Redemption was Spinal Tap 2. You know, we sometimes get questions about, and I know critics in general do, does the mood you're in affect your rating or your thoughts about a movie, the environment, the people you see it with, the crowd, the theater, does any of it matter? Let's count the ways. I'm not saying it did, but let's count the ways I was primed for Spinal Tap 2. When we did our 8 from 84 series, I did name Spinal Tap the best film of that year. somehow even above Amadeus and Stop Making Sense. And I worship those two films, but I also worship Spinal Tap. Of course, if you got me on a different day, I could rearrange that order, but I love all three of those films.

1:05:45Adam Kempenaar:And let's talk about who I watched Spinal Tap 2 with. To my right was Chad, who has been one of my best friends since I met him in grade school in fourth grade. And he is the lead singer in the band I play bass in since we formed it in seventh grade. And we still play once or twice a year. To my left was Jason, who has been one of my best friends since high school. and he's the singer in my college band who has played a few times since we got out of college, but actually never as the five piece band. We haven't reunited as a five piece band since we graduated. It's always just been like a four piece, but someone has, has always had to, had to miss it.

1:06:47Adam Kempenaar:And there's only been a few times anyway. So these two bands are both actually reuniting next summer. The grade school band, the grade school, junior high and high school band, they all play together or we were all together through that time. They're playing at our all class high school reunion next summer. And the college band is playing at our year redacted college reunion. The end continues. Yeah, a few weeks before it, I think. So, you know, I've got bands reuniting on the brain already. And the theater, we had the entire theater to ourselves. It was a Sunday night and the three of us got to sit wherever we wanted and do whatever we wanted and just, you know, laugh as loud as we wanted.

1:07:44Adam Kempenaar:Shoulder to shoulder, I hope. Of course we did. Okay, all right. Of course we did. You know, I mean, we're we're close, right? So, I mean, we're not going to we don't need separate rows or anything here, Josh. So all of that said. Looking at the movie now, this reunion could have all been cringeworthy, but Spinal Tap was never exactly about dignity, was it? Still, there are sufficient laughs and a wistful, honest reckoning with aging that's more in line with my beloved Trip franchise. That surprised me, actually. It's stupidly sincere or sincerely stupid. Take your pick. I'm not sure which one.

1:08:26Adam Kempenaar:These guys, Harry Shearer, Christopher Guest, Michael McKean, it's not like they need the money or the attention. They know what they're doing. The tap legacy matters to these guys. But what is the tap legacy? Spinal Tap has always been predicated on puncturing all pretension anyway. so they get to have it both ways and they do. No, of course it's not the original Spinal Tap. You will never be able to recreate the magic of the original Spinal Tap. No, not everything works here. One of the things that doesn't work, and it's not a terrible aspect of the film, it doesn't ruin the film, obviously.

1:09:05Adam Kempenaar:I think the film mostly works, but there is too much Rob Reiner. I think there was just enough Rob Reiner as Marty DeBerge in the original movie he becomes almost the fourth member of Spinal Tap here. He might actually, he has a bigger role in this movie than Harry Shearer does. He's more on camera and talks more than Harry Shearer does. And that's not to the movie's benefit. I do think, Josh, at least early on in the film, you would struggle with Spinal Tap. And I'd have to, Spinal Tap 2, and I'd have to compare it to the first film to see if this was also an issue. I mean, I know the movie by heart, and yet I can't remember if this was something they also did in the original.

1:09:49Adam Kempenaar:There are a lot of puns. There are a lot of puns in this movie. And I'll give you one. I was thinking about you the entire time. Why was I thinking about you while watching Spinal Tap 2? Well, when we meet Derek Smalls pre-reunion, he is working at a glue museum. He's the curator of a glue museum. And either just before that, meeting him there at his shop or after, he's performing at a symphony that he's written. And it's called Hell Toupee. Hell T-O-U-P-E-E.

1:10:36Josh Larsen:i mean hell toupee it is a title and i i give leeway to titles forgiving and you know what josh

1:10:45Adam Kempenaar:it it made me laugh hell toupee he's singing hell toupee and here again in your theater did it go three for three or one for three two for three i think it went three for three i think we all laughed at hell okay good to know and and there's this moment then when he's in the glue museum talking to Marty DeBerge. And you kind of have to know it's even coming, but he's talking about this ancient type of glue and he's holding it up and he's talking about how it's so rare and it's so adhesive. Like there's no other adhesive that's as strong as this. And of course, the next thing he does is stick it to his nose.

1:11:24Adam Kempenaar:And he's talking to Rob Reiner then as he's got this stuck to his nose. And it's this bit of physical comedy that you know he's so good at, and that made me laugh too. So not every one of the puns, maybe the non-title puns, Josh, aren't as effective as Hell to Pay. But Hell to Pay worked, the glue bit worked, and there are enough funny moments that work. Like a lot of sequels, it does try to overcompensate with allusions to the original. It doesn't push it too far, though. Only some footage. It pushes it a little too far with some star cameos, though in its defense, one of the cameos actually provides one of the funnier sequences in the movie.

1:12:11Adam Kempenaar:And I'm not going to say which one, but I'm hoping anyone listening who has seen the movie knows which of the cameos I'm thinking of because it's, it's really good. And it, it was three for three and the, the other main cameo in the film, that's not the one I'm thinking of. Okay. That's not, that's not funny at all, but yeah, spinal tap too. I thought it was okay. I did. It's funny enough. It's funny enough to see. And again, the earnestness of it is something, you know, it doesn't fully deliver on its concept. And what I mean by that, Josh is it takes that aging part and the mortality part. And where it made me think of the trip too, even as you know how over the course of those movies, those characters almost switch places a little bit where you see like Coogan, you know, is the womanizer and everything.

1:13:00Adam Kempenaar:And then in the, in the next movie, we actually see like Rob Brydon gets the chance to have a little fling and, and Coogan's more of the lonely one in the original spinal tap famously, right? It's, it's David St. Hubbins, It's McKean who's got his wife, Janine, and he's too caught up with her and not paying enough attention to the band. And that causes a little bit of a falling out. And in this one, you've got Nigel who's got the woman in his life and is settled down and is mature. And it's causing a bit of a rift. And so I thought that dynamic was actually pretty interesting. And it doesn't just go for all the same jokes that the first movie went for.

1:13:40So I can recommend it.

1:13:42Josh Larsen:I mean, I'll take your recommendation. It's hard to imagine it would have failed in that scenario with going with friends like that. Yes. But yeah, I'm glad you guys had a good time.

1:13:54Adam Kempenaar:Spinal Tap 2 is currently playing in wide release. Josh, you saw another music-related new release. I'm hoping to get to this one this weekend, The History of Sound. It's directed by Oliver Hermanis, who made the 2022 Ikaru remake Living with Bill Nye. The History of Sound is set in 1917 Boston and stars Paul Meskel and Josh O 'Connor as music students who bond over a shared love of folk music. It's based on a 2024 novel by writer Ben Shattuck, who must be good because he's a graduate of the famed Iowa Writers Workshop. Shattuck also wrote the screenplay. Let's play a clip and then we'll get your thoughts.

1:14:32Adam Kempenaar:In this scene, Meskel's Lionel has just introduced himself to O 'Connor's David after hearing him sing a folk song in a noisy bar.

1:14:40Michael Phillips:I didn't think people around here knew songs like that. Well, they don't. This is a hobby in the summers. Collecting tunes, ballads, songs. It reminds me of home. What else do you want? More than you, likely. Pretty Sarah? Of course. Fair winner? One went east, the other went west. How about, uh... Silver Dagger?

1:15:13no i don't think so should i know it's such a pretty song

1:15:19Michael Phillips:oh come on let's hear it oh my god so that clip is setting up and and a good part of actually a

1:15:30Josh Larsen:potential music moment of the year for me um it's a very powerful scene it's uh it's uh deeply romantic because this blossoms into a tragic romance that, um, ends somewhere pretty devastating. This is a movie. I had a strange experience with it because it's very muted. It's very somber. Um, and it took me a while to get on its wavelength, but then it does build quietly All that time it's putting in the work and building to bring about this fairly devastating finale that uses music very effectively to meditate on impermanence, impermanence of love, impermanence of life. And I'll get it out of the way because every review is going to mention Brokeback Mountain.

1:16:23Josh Larsen:I think that's to this movie's credit becomes it comes close to reaching those points. If it doesn't quite have that, I'm still working my way through this. If it doesn't quite have what I felt Ang Lee brought, which was an immediacy, an urgency in Brokeback Mountain, maybe that's just because of this period setting. They meet in 1917. I think it might have to do with the visual aesthetic as well. Talented cinematographer here, Alexander Dynan, and the director, Hermanus, working together, they render. this is one of those movies that has a respectably handsome sheen to it, but a somber sheen.

1:17:04Josh Larsen:It can feel a bit precious. Maybe that was part of it, but it only held me back a bit because by the end of the film, yeah, it really punches you in the gut. And as far as the performers, these are maybe the two most exciting young actors for me, at least right now. and they're both very good. I do think Meskel, his role, this character he's playing, Lionel is a quieter type, but he's muted in a way that the movie is as well. O 'Connor really rouses the material. O 'Connor brings it and that's the part. David here is more of an imp. You understand that's a mask for other things going on in his life, but he has a little bit of the livelier part, man, is O 'Connor so good.

1:17:53I mean, this guy, I think this guy's got like

1:17:57Josh Larsen:13 ,000 smiles in his back pocket and some of them are doing more than three things at once. I'll probably end up talking about this later in the year when it comes to this performance or that music moment, how he employs it in that meeting with Lionel. There's also a moment where Lionel asks him, he ends up getting drafted into World War I and asks him about his experience. And the way he says something like, I'm trying to call in my notes here, the dialogue, he says something about it made World War II made everything dimmer. Yet while he's saying that, O 'Connor is still smiling, but it's not the smile he's been using elsewhere.

1:18:40Josh Larsen:It's like a slightly different variation that just lets you know the depth of the suffering, even though that's all he's going to give you is the word dimmer and, and a little off kilter smile. So yeah, O 'Connor, um, stands out. Mescal is good. They both sing, they both sing these folk songs and, and in many cases, acapella, um, and, and they're incredible. So keep an eye out for this one. I don't know why I have a feeling that might get lost in the shuffle as these awards type films are going to start showering upon us. And it might be one that falls by the wayside, but I would say don't let it.

1:19:18Josh Larsen:Check out The History of Sound.

1:19:20Adam Kempenaar:The History of Sound is out now in only limited release. If you see it and have any thoughts, we would love to hear them. You can email us, feedback at filmspotting.net.

1:19:33Josh Larsen:Quick reminder about our sister podcast, The Next Picture Show, looking at cinemas present via its past. They are up to part two of their King's Ransom pairing. So they're talking about Spike Lee's Highest to Lowest. I can't wait to hear that one. Thoroughly enjoyed their discussion previously of Akira Kurosawa's High and Low from 1963. Tasha Robinson had some good background about the Ed McBain book, I believe, that it is based on. And she and Genevieve and Scott had a great discussion about high and low. And this week I'll catch up with their talk about highest to lowest new episodes of the next picture show drop every Tuesday, and you can get them wherever you get your podcasts.

1:20:17Adam Kempenaar:Another quick plug for the vulture movies, fantasy league signups are open now through next Thursday, as we are taping this and about to release this episode. That's Thursday, September 25th. I think we had our date wrong last week. Pretty sure we said the 24th it's Thursday, September 25th. Make sure to enter FilmSpotters in the league name when you sign up. That way, you'll get to compete within our own FilmSpotters League with other FilmSpotting listeners and some other FilmSpotting family members. But then you'll also still be competing against all the other movie fantasy league competitors all be playing.

1:20:59Adam Kempenaar:Producer Sam will be playing. Yes, he did finish 10th last year in the podcasters division. We get to be in our own separate little creators league, Josh. How about that? Impressive.

1:21:10Josh Larsen:Two questions for you. Can I wager on how you do and should I wager on how you do?

1:21:16Adam Kempenaar:Yeah, you should. You should wager on how I do. I'll finish like 4 ,000th. Okay. Okay. But I don't know how you can wager on that. Going in confident, I see. No, I think I'll do terribly. Next week here on FilmSpotting, we will go on a big, bold, beautiful journey. The new one from one of our favorites here on FilmSpotting, Koganada, the director of Columbus and After Yang. It stars Margot Robbie and Colin Farrell. It will open in wide release this weekend. Josh, have you successfully skipped the trailer? Because I have not. It played before something I saw the other day.

1:22:01Josh Larsen:Of course, I've successfully skipped the trailer and also have successfully wide released. Thankfully, it includes the UK, Adam. I'm very excited to make my first foray to not quite the local cinema. I've got to take a bus and possibly a second bus to the neighboring town to get to this cinema. But I do have my tickets. We already have our tickets booked. And yeah, one of the most anticipated of the year for both of us. I know a big, bold, beautiful journey. So can't wait to check out this new theater and check out Koganata's latest film.

1:22:34Adam Kempenaar:We will also have results from the current Deeply Flawed Film Spotting poll. It asks you to choose one and only one 60s musical. If the poster for not the trailer, Josh, but for us, those of us who have seen the trailer and if you've seen the poster, you know, it indicates that maybe Koganata has a clear pick in this poll question because there seems to be a fair amount of Jacques Demi's umbrellas of Sherbor influence. Yes, I have seen that poster. Yeah. A big, bold, beautiful journey. You can vote in that poll. Oh, so you don't, you don't skip, you don't, you don't close your eyes every time you walk by the poster.

1:23:15Josh Larsen:I mean, it's a little rough if you're on any form of social media to avoid posters. I got to say.

1:23:21Adam Kempenaar:So yeah, I did see that. You can vote in that poll and leave a comment at filmspotting.net. For a current show schedule, visit filmspotting.net slash episodes.

1:23:32Josh Larsen:It is time now for Massacre Theater, where we perform a scene and you get a chance to win a film spotting prize. Last week, we massacred this scene.

1:23:41Michael Phillips:Suppose I offer you equal shares. And what? Everything to the last grain. And the people in the village? What about that? I leave it to you. Can men of our profession worry about things like that? It may even be sacrilegious.

1:24:02Michael Phillips:If God didn't want them sheared, he would not have made them sheep. What do you say? Right on.

1:24:15Michael Phillips:You hear that, Sotero? hear what he said right on to me that was eli wallach yule brunner steve mcqueen and five

1:24:28Josh Larsen:others in 1960s the magnificent seven written by william roberts walter bernstein and walter newman based on the screenplay for akira kurosawa's the seven samurai that massacre was part of our highest to lowest show a couple of weeks back. And there's always a tie-in. So why that scene from The Magnificent Seven?

1:24:49Adam Kempenaar:We weren't really trying to trick anyone this time. Tom Robertson from Burwood, Victoria, Australia says, this installment of Massacre Theater was The Magnificent Seven from 60, with Adam playing the role of Eli Wallach's bandit leader, Calvera. I don't know why playing was in quotes. That's insulting Tom. And Josh in the roles of, I think, all of the seven heroes? Why this scene? Well, the first connection for me is to Akira Kurosawa, Highest to Lowest, which you reviewed on the show, is seen as a remake of Kurosawa's 1963 High and Low. And The Magnificent Seven is a remake of Kurosawa's 1954 Seven Samurai.

1:25:25Adam Kempenaar:The second connection, Denzel Washington, star of Highest to Lowest, also starred in the remake of The Magnificent Seven in 2016. Let's not review your performances because Adam was never going to match the charisma of Eli Wallach and Josh. Some actors chew on the scenery. Josh gorged himself.

1:25:45Josh Larsen:Well, thank you, sir. I'll take that as a compliment. We also heard from Sean. He's in Murfreesboro, Tennessee, still trying to figure out the tie-in that led Josh to read his parts as performed by Pazuzu from The Exorcist spillover from the weapon spoiler talk about possession. I don't know, man. That's all I got. But another fine massacre. I wish I could say that was intentional, Sean.

1:26:11Adam Kempenaar:Was it? Okay. The film spotting hat, not so brimming. You had a pretty good chance if you correctly identified the original Magnificent Seven as our massacre. Reach into the hat. Pick out this week's winner. Oh, man. Video. It's a video edition. They're going to see that there's not a hat. I didn't think about this. It could be off camera. Here, here. Oh, gosh. Why didn't I think of that? It's off camera. It's off camera.

1:26:36Josh Larsen:Yeah, there it is. Ben Carr in East Hollywood by way of Rogers Park. Congratulations.

1:26:42Adam Kempenaar:Yeah. Congratulations, Ben. Email feedback at filmspotting.net to claim your very own film spotting t-shirt, tote bag, or if you're not already a film spotting family member, you can get a trial membership to the film spotting family. Would the detours assemble?

1:27:00Michael Phillips:Would the detours assemble? Would the detour so simple? Would the detour so simple? My dear boy, why do you say that? Why do you say twer?

1:27:08Adam Kempenaar:Well, you should say it like I said. We move on now to this week's edition of Massacre Theater. You're not going to be able to throw your voice this time, Josh, and play like 17 different characters.

1:27:21Josh Larsen:Are you okay with that? I'm going to be laser focused. Oh, you're going to be intense. I also have a, well, it's my only option with this actor. That's my point. I have a bit of stage direction. I think for authenticity, and it works that this is one of our early video shows, this will be appreciated by the video audience. For authenticity, I think we should put our hands over our mouths. We might need to. To mimic the sound of what's happening.

1:27:51Adam Kempenaar:Do you think people will think that we're serial killers? The Night Stalker or something? A possibility. but I wasn't planning that, but you know what we can, I like the authenticity. I like, I like where you're going. We're true to our craft if nothing else. Here's, here's what I'll say. The scene is definitely going to suffer from the lack of sad music playing behind us. We could use that. And we're also going to change the names because names are mentioned multiple times and that would just make it really, really, really obvious. So we've changed the names, But sometimes when we change the names, we give you clues.

1:28:34That said, are we ready?

1:28:37Adam Kempenaar:Yes. Let's just do it. I don't, I don't know. I don't know.

1:28:41Josh Larsen:I don't know. You're going to do it like that? I was going to go, I was going like this, but you're going to, you're going to go. Well, because, you know, I'm thinking more like, you know, this is like Bane. This is like Bane. I think we want this. Okay. Okay. Nose. Nose two. Do your nose. Nose two. Okay. Perfect. Here we go. Here we go. You give me the action And action Where the hell is this guy? He's on our nose Dammit, we're out of ammo Smoke in the air, Andrew, flares Ah, that was close

1:29:12Adam Kempenaar:We're out of flares, Cole Shit, he's already on us Ah, this is not good We took another hit

1:29:19Josh Larsen:No, no, no

1:29:20Adam Kempenaar:This episode is brought to you by Peloton Break through the busiest time of year With the brand new Peloton Cross Training Tread Plus powered by Peloton IQ. With real-time guidance and endless ways to move, you can personalize your workouts and train with confidence, helping you reach your goals in less time. Let yourself run, lift, sculpt, push, and go. Explore the new Peloton Cross-Training Tread Plus at OnePeloton.com. Oh, no, no, no.

1:29:46Josh Larsen:We can't take much more of this. We cannot run this guy. We gotta eject. What? We need altitude. Pull the ejection handles the second I tell you. cool wait andrew there's no other way eject eject eject and and no you take your hand away

1:30:07Adam Kempenaar:for this part no i i thought it'd be funnier if we did the end scene still covering our mouths

1:30:13Josh Larsen:but it's true you do sometimes stay in character for hours after massacre theater so i get it

1:30:20Adam Kempenaar:um i don't know my voice cracked a couple times and i don't think that's true to the character I don't recall that happening. It is a man in the scene. You were under heavy pressure. It's okay. I was under duress like the characters in this scene. If you know what film we just massacred, email the movie's title and your name and location to feedback at filmspotting.net. The deadline is Monday, September 29th. We'll select the winner randomly from all the correct entries and announce it in a couple of weeks.

1:30:54Michael Phillips:I didn't know you were the Sundance kid when they said you were cheating.

1:31:01Michael Phillips:By drawing you, you'll kill me. There's that possibility. No, you'd be killing yourself. So why don't you just invite us to stick around? You can do it. I mean, easy. Come on. Come on.

1:31:26Josh Larsen:Why'd you stick around? Thanks, but we gotta get going.

1:31:37Hey, kid.

1:31:39Michael Phillips:Hey, kid. How good are you?

1:31:46Adam Kempenaar:We wanted to acknowledge the passing of the Sundance Kid himself, Robert. Redford, of course, actor, director, a key figure in the independent film movement as co-founder of what became the Sundance Film Festival, 89 years old with credits going back to the 1960s, the early 1960s. He was only nominated for one acting Oscar. He never did win. That was 1974, The Sting. He was an Oscar winner in 1981 as director for Ordinary People. That also won Best Picture, yes, over Raging Bull. He was nominated again for director and his producer for Best Picture in 94 for Quiz Show. We are very excited to have Michael Phillips back on Film Spotting, and we're going to talk Venice Film Festival.

1:32:38Adam Kempenaar:But before that, this bit of sad news. I'd love to hear when you think about Robert Redford, what do you think of Redford as director? Redford as actor? Is there a particular role?

1:32:48Michael Phillips:Yeah, Butch and Sundance really, really just cemented that that kind of new Hollywood slash old Hollywood smash that was Butch casting the Sundance kid. And it, you know, maybe it was Redford's destiny to never quite get the respect and maybe never to work with quite the same degree of talent and, I would say, versatility that Paul Newman did in his career. But Redford, when you look at, as you say, he went back to back when any any, you know, blonde haired, good looking waspy character who could could put a couple sentences together, could get a career started on Broadway, as he did with Barefoot in the Park.

1:33:36Michael Phillips:And to take that and do with it what he did, which is right away, when he got popular enough to have influence, to start working with directors like Michael Ritchie and Downhill Racer. To not just seek out the next big hit, but plenty of them. But to really find his comfortable groove and stick to it and just sort of become the excellent screen company that he was. The other thing I'd like to say just in passing, honestly, is that I'm glad the quiz show came up in the intro. And I'd actually forgotten that it was well regarded by the, you know, in the nomination process anyway, with the Oscars that year.

1:34:18Michael Phillips:I think that's infinitely his best directed film. I love quiz show. And I think it's it brought out a different side. I mean, that that script is very snappy and kind of propulsive. and it's obviously the opposite in every impulse from Ordinary People, which to me is a film I admire and never see a second time. And Quiz Show I've gone back to over and over, not just because it's easier or, quote, fun in terms of its technique, but because I just think it just brought out a different side of Redford as a director. And the other major story with him, honestly, is that the guy started the Sundance Film Festival and then hung around long enough to kind of, frankly, throw up his hands in frustration about what it had become by the time he was stepping away from it a few years ago in that it was all about the deal-making, all about finding the hits, and it was the opposite, in his view, of how they started, which is just find some handful of talented people and give them a shot because they would otherwise not get it without something like that in the mix back in, you know, how many decades ago now.

1:35:23Michael Phillips:I mean, yeah. And now it just became an industry machine, which he kind of resented.

1:35:27Josh Larsen:Yeah, I'm with you, Michael, on Quiz Show. You know, I have very fond memories of that movie. Haven't revisited it quite as often as it sounds like you have. Probably the most recent Redford performance I watched is Catching Up with the Sting for the first time. And, you know, he's just, he's so just pleasantly charming in there. Just this easily agreeable screen presence. Like it, it just seems made to be up on the screen. And I think, you know, the nice thing about his directorial career is it gives you as much as you may appreciate those performances. And many of them I have, the directorial career gives you a chance to see something else that was going on behind that face.

1:36:11Josh Larsen:You know, um, the stories he was interested in the way he was going to present them. And a lot of those movies he did as a director, um, you know, quiz show, I'd agree, maybe being up there at the top. But you think about something like A River Runs Through It or I appreciate similarly, similar level, ordinary people. These are movies that I think have a professionalism and a Hollywood sheen to them that somewhat matches his screen persona, but also have an intelligence and a curiosity to them as well. I'm curious. I can't wait myself to really think about Redford as a whole in the inevitable top five list we'll be doing, Adam, at some point to remember his career.

1:36:57Josh Larsen:And we'll have to talk about how we balance the directorial efforts with the screen performances. But yeah, he's someone I've kind of always taken for granted as just always being there since the quote unquote beginning of that new Hollywood, as you say, Michael. And so to really sit down, see some things I haven't seen and think about who he was, what he meant in total, I'll be eager to do.

1:37:23Adam Kempenaar:I guess I'm the only person out there who actually genuinely loves ordinary people. Fine. Fine. I'll be on that cross. It's good. It's good. I think it's better than good.

1:37:34Michael Phillips:In the spirit of the movie, I don't want to talk about it.

1:37:37Adam Kempenaar:Thank you. Repress that, Michael, like a good suburban Midwesterner, which you are. which we all are. I was just about to start singing the praises of some of those perhaps underappreciated Redford performances, but you said it and I had mentioned it earlier and somehow forgot we are going to do a Redford top five. So you know what? I'm going to zip it like you, Michael, and I'm going to save, I'm going to save it for that inevitable top five list. And I do have I do have some Redford blind spots that I need to remedy. Maybe one of them I'll mention the meme. I've never seen Jeremiah Johnson. Michael, do you have a pick?

1:38:20Adam Kempenaar:You don't you don't know what I have seen and haven't seen. But is there maybe a Redford film that you imagine is one that's that's underseen that that maybe people should seek out? Well, yeah, one of the obvious ones.

1:38:33Michael Phillips:Let me correct you on one thing. I do, just knowing you a little bit, Adam, I know the troubles you've seen. Okay. For sure. I know all those, but I don't know everything. Redford, you know, big, big bunch of dozens and dozens of films. A performance I really like and a film I haven't seen in a long time and did like a lot at that sort of height of the conspiracy political thriller era is Three Days of the Condor. Yeah. You know, that for me, I mean, you don't want to pull one against another, but you mentioned Jeremiah Johnson. to sort of, to me, that's sort of a pretentious revenge Western. It's fun to watch Will Gere in kind of a juicy supporting role, but it's Condor that I think is worth going back to, and that gets at exactly the kind of largely nonverbal mystique that Redford had.

1:39:29Michael Phillips:And it's not just a matter of showing up and modeling for the camera. He was better than that. And a lot of folks who started out like him didn't have to become as effective an actor as he did. And I think, honestly, when he started directing other folks, you know, directing his features, I think he got to be a more intuitive and more relaxed actor. He was never like a tense, obviously fraught screen presence. He wasn't. But I think he got better, which is exactly what you want from anyone. It's wonderful to be able to say that about anybody who had a long career like that. And he put his money where his mouth was, too, in terms of what he believed in and what he believed in in terms of film.

1:40:16Adam Kempenaar:Three Days of the Condor and Jeremiah Johnson, two of seven films that Redford was in, directed by Sidney Pollack. and I've seen two of seven films Redford was in directed by Sidney Pollack. They happen to be Three Days of the Condor and The Way We Were. So some blind spots to fill in. We'll get to those as we do our top five maybe scenes, performances. We'll have to decide and we'll get to that on the film spotting schedule. We'll make sure we let you know so you can get to your Robert Redford blind spots as well. Okay, Michael, we wanted to have you on because, well, we just wanted to have you on.

1:40:54Adam Kempenaar:And we were due, of course, but also you were recently at the Venice Film Festival. And I think besides getting to some of the big films that you saw and maybe some of the big news that came out of that festival, we just love to hear you talk about how that fest might be different from other festivals. because based on what I've heard from you, it is a festival unlike a lot of the others. Yeah.

1:41:22Michael Phillips:The one you quite appreciate. I love it. And I go there not like I've ever attended any other film festival in that the reason I had the invitation to go the first time was not to cover it for the Tribune. This was long after the Tribune had stopped paying for me to go anywhere. But there's a small sidebar panel that's been going for about 10, 12 years now called the Biennale College Cinema, which is a development program for first and second time filmmakers. So they have a screenplay competition and they pick four winners out of hundreds of submissions. and they give those four filmmakers 200 ,000 euros, about$250 ,000 American, U.S.

1:42:12Michael Phillips:dollars, and they make their movie on this, you know, what could be considered a micro budget, and they're from all over the world, and these four then show the finished product, the finished films at the following year's festival. And every year, some of us are fortunate enough to be invited on this panel of critics, three or four from the U.S. and a couple others from Europe. Stephanie Zaharik from Time Magazine has been there from the beginning. Glenn Kenney, who writes for RogerHubert.com and all, you know, he wrote an excellent book on Goodfellas and a very good critic and all kinds of it.

1:42:51Michael Phillips:Chris Wagner, who's now the new pop culture writer at the Boston Globe, a good group. And we just simply do a panel, no award, no contest, but just a discussion with the filmmakers about, you know, well, here's what we think. Here's what we saw. We'd like to hear this. And just ask questions. It's a wonderful chance to kind of just actually have, and it's a public event. It's a wonderful chance to just talk about what they went through to get the thing written and then get the thing made in their, you know, typically their home country. And this could be everywhere from, you know, any number of countries from Africa, all over Europe, and occasionally a U.S.

1:43:30Michael Phillips:film. Films like This Is Not a Burial, This Is a Resurrection came out of this program. There's a very good American film called The Fitz, about 10 years old, came out of this program. You know it well. Fantastic, right? I mean, you know, and that was, I believe, the year before I started going over there. Anyway, that's my reason for going there. And then I have, you know, I don't know if you know this, but I, you know, left the Tribune last month. But up until then, I would write a tad about, you know, some of what I saw in Venice, you know, in amongst the other allegations I had at the festival.

1:44:07Michael Phillips:But I tell you, the reason why I think it's worth talking about Venice just as a public film festival, I think it could be of the ones I've been to. And that's a fraction of them. But, you know, Toronto is a big public film festival. That's the big one in North America. People who who civilians who are really into film tend to like Toronto because it's not too expensive to get to. It's getting more expensive to find lodging there. But it's you know, it's you can see a heck of a lot of movies in a week or 10 days. You have to kind of really jostle for tickets on the online ticketing now. But, you know, a lot of the film festivals out there are public festivals in theory and a little trickier in practice.

1:44:51Michael Phillips:Venice, though, from what I can tell, is just this wonderful mixture of world class. You know, it's one of the big three European festivals along with Cannes and Berlin. And yet the public component is huge. And if you're willing to do the, you know, the kind of the online ticketing scrum, just like you would for Lollapalooza here in Chicago, and just try to book your schedule quickly, you go. And if you can get the travel taken care of, or you can find like a cheap flight about a year early to get there, it's the greatest place I've ever seen for a lot of movies. You're not in Venice. You know, you've been to Venice, Adam, recently.

1:45:34Michael Phillips:I have, recently, yeah. Yeah. And you were just telling me off mic that you didn't know where the hell is a film festival? Yeah.

1:45:40Adam Kempenaar:Where would it be?

1:45:42Michael Phillips:Not in Venice, man. It's too crowded over there. It's on the Lido, which is the biggest island in the Venetian Canal. It's seven miles long and about a half mile wide. You know, it's been a summer destination, a middle class summer destination for generations now. and it was, you know, this festival is the oldest international film festival in the world. 1932, Mussolini and his cronies thought, let's go, let's do it. A wonderful start. The opening night film in 32 was Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. It was a huge Hollywood component right from the beginning. And then, I'll give you 30 seconds of history.

1:46:25Michael Phillips:By 1938, the winners of the Venice Festival tended to be all from Italy or Germany. And it was a lot of overturned decisions and the fascism was just running rampant. You don't say. Yeah, and so that spurred into existence the Cannes Film Festival on the other side. And that lasted in 1939 exactly one screening, Punchback in Notre Dame, before they shut it down because World War II was officially on. And then everything started up again, obviously, in 1946 after World War II. but Venice has been really strong. It's really, if you really care about the Oscar derby to the degree, you know, people like to kind of dope out Oscar winners coming out of festivals, it's turned out something like more than double the Oscar winners than Cannes has in the last few years.

1:47:21Michael Phillips:Not necessarily best picture, but just, you know, for winners all over the place. And I just find that it's one, it's one of the most pleasurable film going experiences I've ever seen on a big scale because the Lido is quiet. You go there, you can rent a bike, you bike around. They have very good, nicely concentrated screening venues. It's the opposite of Sundance, which feels like it's only one more year in Park City Sundance, but it always felt to me like it was like 17 miles of confusion. and the Lido is so small and kind of like narrow. It's long, but it's narrow. You know, all the half a dozen venues or more are all in a very easy spot.

1:48:02Michael Phillips:The gelato is fantastic. I would go back simply for the gelato, Adam.

1:48:06Adam Kempenaar:Fair enough. And I think the next film spotting meetup needs to be on the Lido. Let's make it happen. You've sold me.

1:48:13Josh Larsen:I like that idea.

1:48:14Adam Kempenaar:So let's talk movies. I mean, everyone was talking about and excited to see the Del Toro, right? Frankenstein? You saw it?

1:48:24Michael Phillips:The Del Toro, I did. Look, I missed more than I saw. I saw about a dozen, 15 films in the time I had there. I did see The Frankenstein, and it's good. I think it's Del Toro's best film, certainly since The Shape of Water about eight years ago. And it's not new style or a new direction for him, but it's, it's got the kind of swagger that you always get from Del Toro on, no matter how much money he's spending. And yet, even on a bigger budget than maybe he's ever had, I'm not sure. No, I mean, Pacific Rim cost more, but, uh, it's, it's lavish. It's just lavish enough so that every one of his unbelievably talented designers could go to town, you know.

1:49:13Michael Phillips:And, you know, the performances, very strong, you know, always slightly threatened to be eaten alive by the visual elements. But I have to say, just like for different reasons, just like Robert Eggers doing Nosferatu, you know, before I saw it, I thought, do I want to revisit this particular mythology again? And then that film turned out to be, in my view, you know, good enough to just like, okay, good. You made a case for it. same with del Toro and Frankenstein. He's been wanting to do this for a long time. And he, it's a real, it was a very solid effort. I mean, that's the least you can say about him.

1:49:48Michael Phillips:Can I talk about more?

1:49:49Adam Kempenaar:You can.

1:49:50Michael Phillips:I mean, there's more. Please do. There's more. I mean, the other ones. I mean, the one, you know, the winner, the one that won it all. The one that won it all. The Golden Lion. Yeah, yeah, yeah. This was Jim Jarmusch's father, mother, sister, brother, which was a surprise to some people. This sort of enters into a somewhat neurotic conflict of interest for me. I never reviewed a Jarmusch film because... Do you want to explain, Michael? Yes, for several years, back from the late 80s to the mid-90s, I was with his sister, the art and architecture critic Ann Jarmusch. We were together for about seven years, and I was writing about theater then.

1:50:34Michael Phillips:but it's always seemed a little like obvious to me that, look, this is the one professional conflict of interest. I should just stick with the whole way. And so I have, but, you know, the film got a very good, the genre film got a very good reception. At the same time, a lot of the same critics who liked it a lot in print or online we're surprised that that the top price didn't go to maybe a more I don't know what the word is substantial or quote important unquote film than this you know modest three part anthology series of three different stories although I have to say it's worth seeing for me just to see how droll and sly an actor Tom Waits can be he's very funny in the first of the three stories in that one But the film that really got the most press because of this issue with Gaza right now and the conflict and protests of all kinds on the Lido actually during the festival.

1:51:39Michael Phillips:But this Palestinian film I missed, the voice of Hind Rizab, which is about the Israeli killing of a five-year-old girl in Gaza based on a true story. That won second prize and a lot of people were surprised it didn't win first. I haven't seen it. I look forward to it. Of the ones I saw that I could solidly recommend at least, the del Toro film Frankenstein, Laura Poitras' documentary cover-up. She has never made a bad film yet. This portrait of investigative journalist Seymour Hersh is just sharp as ever. And boy, do we need a film right now showing the value of solid investigative journalism.

1:52:17Michael Phillips:And although it's an interesting enough, it's a brave enough film to paint him as flawed and, you know, having some periods of his career where it wasn't so stringent, you know, where he sort of got, you know, he got his hat handed to him because he was factually off. But it's a really great—and to see him there, it just made your heart, you know, glad to see a guy that dogged and that devoted to, you know, what's important in journalism and very rare right now. They're getting the props he deserved, but that was great. I thought the Benny Safdie film that A24 is putting out in a couple weeks, The Smashing Machine, is pretty interesting, too.

1:52:57Michael Phillips:So that's, for him, this first kind of somewhat conventional biopic. This is Dwayne Johnson's, certainly the best showcase he's had to do something different than from everything else he's done. And that film has got a lot of weird little corkscrews in it that you wouldn't expect to see in any sports biopic. It's not a film that really gives you the usual triumph of the human spirit or the rise and fall and rise again. But I'm still wrestling with it, frankly. But I'd like I'd love to talk to Safdie about some of the some of the decisions he made. And just, you know, he's a filmmaker I've always I've always liked.

1:53:41Michael Phillips:And just, I mean, to see somebody who started out with those really, really nervy, abrasive, you know, street life portraits and peculiar, really vinegary sort of collaborations with his brother. It's interesting to see him go off in his own direction now. But, yeah, that's three right there. You know, I certainly saw more than that. But, you know, let's start with that. Okay. Yeah, I really, but there's something about the location. And if you've got any ambition and you have to kind of see Europe, see the Lido in Venice before it all gets sunk by climate change, but actually just see a true world-class festival in this kind of stunning location, not like amazing scenery, but just to be able to kind of walk home or bike home back to your B &B at night and hear crickets and hear music here.

1:54:41Michael Phillips:And, you know, it's not like Cannes was, which was just a zoo. Gorgeous in many ways, fantastic, but a head spinner. But I've just, I think it's, it just knows what it's doing. It's grown, but it has not turned into a marketplace like Cannes is very much about. and, in fact, what the Sundance Film Festival, to Redford's, to its founders, to Stain, also turned into. Venice wouldn't mind a little more action like that, I think. But I love the space. And, oh, one last thing. Can I just say one last thing? Michael, the floor is yours. I mean, I'm just yakking. The virtual floor is yours. All right.

1:55:25Michael Phillips:First year I go, 2016. I get the explanation. It's like, okay, you get off the plane, great, over in the usual airport in Venice, and then you just walk to the dock, okay, and the taxi's there. And the taxi's, huh, it's a water taxi. Oh, okay. Oh, it's a really cool speedboat. Huh, interesting. Oh, there's, it's usually wood-paneled speedboat. And the first year I went, it was sunset, you know, four or five o 'clock in the afternoon, jet lagged, And, you know, that hour around Venice, you know, it was like, this is work. You know, it's just like. Totally. And then you show up and there's one great old hotel, only one, where historically the very first films were shown there in 1932, the Excelsior Hotel.

1:56:20Michael Phillips:And that's where you dock if you're in any way connected with the festival. And I couldn't be more tangentially connected, but Darrow was, you know, oh, great. And then you hop off onto the red carpeted dock. And it makes you feel a little fancy, you know?

1:56:39Adam Kempenaar:And I've never really, my ego's never recovered. Yeah, you're like Alain Delon with Monica Vitti, right there. Yep.

1:56:47Michael Phillips:Right? The toast of, well, I'm certainly the toast of Racine, Wisconsin when I'm over there. Okay.

1:56:54Adam Kempenaar:You've sold us on the magic of the Venice Film Festival. Sounds lovely, Michael. Josh, come back from Scotland and we'll find room in the film spotting coffers for us all to go to Venice.

1:57:05Josh Larsen:That sounds great. We can dream. We can dream, right? I'm thinking when school's over, a pit stop on the way home more likely. Yeah, I don't know. I'll meet you there.

1:57:14Adam Kempenaar:I don't know why I said that when there's no way I can get away from class. Can they move the Venice Film Festival, Michael? The dates? Can they just change it?

1:57:22Michael Phillips:Well, I think Iowa City's already a sister city, isn't it? Yeah, isn't it? Let's go. There you go. Actually, Adam, I'll come and teach your class because I've heard some complaints. And you go over to the festival.

1:57:36Adam Kempenaar:You know what? That is quite a sacrifice. Actually, I am looking forward to Michael Phillips coming back to Iowa City here in a few weeks to enlighten my class. And we'll have a nice meal and we'll do a little.

1:57:48Josh Larsen:Adam will be off to a film festival abroad somewhere.

1:57:52Adam Kempenaar:No, we'll do a little soft shoe thing that we do at the Refocus Film Festival at FilmScene, and we'll have a good time. So, Michael, I look forward to that, and I look forward to your next appearance here on FilmSpotting. Thank you so much. Thanks, Michael.

1:58:06Michael Phillips:Yeah, good to see you guys.

1:58:07Josh Larsen:Bye-bye. Thank you. Take care. That is our show. If you'd like to connect with us on social media, you can find Adam and the show on Instagram, Facebook, Letterboxd, and YouTube at FilmSpotting. I'm at each of those places as Larson on Film. We are independently produced and listener supported. You can support the show by joining the film spotting family at film spotting family.com. You can listen early and ad free. You'll also get a weekly newsletter, monthly bonus episodes and access to the entire show archive for show t-shirts or other merch. Go to film spotting.net slash shop in the film spotting archive.

1:58:44Adam Kempenaar:You can find a little bit of discussion about spinal tap episode seven 70. We did our eight from 84 series. We united that with Stop Making Sense and Purple Rain, a triumvirate of music movies from that year. That was fun. Yeah. We also have a couple of Robert Redford conversations, The Discovery, a movie that I don't think many people remember. Episode 629. I think Charlie McDowell, his second feature after the one I love and All the President's Men. Come on. That was part of our seven from 76 series, episode eight, 12 in limited release. You can see the Josh Larson recommended the history of sound.

1:59:30Adam Kempenaar:Also mega doc, a behind the scenes documentary about the making of Francis Ford Coppola's Megalopolis. Okay. Directed by Mike Figgis who made leaving Las Vegas. Also reef install a documentary about the German filmmaker who collaborated with the Nazis. Robert Daniels, Josh, says it's flat out jaw dropping. Okay. I'm in. In wide release, it's the 30th anniversary IMAX re-release of Apollo 13. Also, HIM. Is that what we're supposed to call it or is it H-I-M? I'm not the person to ask. I mean, you talk about the Film Spotting Pronunciation Guide. It's only three letters. You'd think we could get this one right.

2:00:13Adam Kempenaar:But this mystifies me. I've been wrong at every turn about what this movie is. And now I read the plot. I don't know. Maybe Sam is making this up or he actually did copy it. I feel like I'm learning something new yet again. A young football player has a chance to train with a former star quarterback at his private compound only to realize that he's in a movie produced by Jordan Peele's Monkey Praw Productions. It's not really a meta movie. That's Sam having some fun with us. I think Sam's being cheeky. This is a trailer.

2:00:42Josh Larsen:This is a trailer I've seen about 300 times. Oh, okay. And so I don't think it is a meta movie. It's not a movie within a movie thing going on here.

2:00:52Adam Kempenaar:I don't think so. Okay, thanks. Coconut is a big, bold, beautiful journey. Also out wide. And we will talk about that film next week and have our 60s musical poll results. We'll see if we get up to any other movie business with some other new or recent releases.

2:01:11Josh Larsen:Film Spottin is produced by Golden Joe Disso and Sam Van Hogren. Without Sam and Golden Joe, this show wouldn't go. Our production assistant is Sophie Kempinar. Special thanks also to everyone at WBEZ Chicago. More information is available at WBEZ.org. For Film Spottin, I'm Josh Larson. And I'm Adam Kempinar. Thanks for listening.

2:01:31Michael Phillips:This conversation can serve no purpose anymore. Goodbye.

2:02:01Adam Kempenaar:And for the first time, all in one place, the entire Film Spotting archive going back to 2005. That's at filmspottingfamily.com. Panoply.

2:02:16Adam Kempenaar:Zach, nice vacation spot. But without T-Mobile 5G home internet, it's scary here.

2:02:23Michael Phillips:Don't open it. Relax. I ordered T-Mobile 5G home internet with same-day delivery powered by DoorDash. Nothing to be afraid of. We're saved! Get T-Mobile 5G home internet delivered the same day. Powered by DoorDash. Just$35 a month with auto pay and a voice line.

2:02:40Josh Larsen:Plus taxes and fees. Same day delivery for most internet eligible customers. See if it's an option during checkout. Summer is here, which means we all want to look and feel our best. A GLP-1 may be right for you. Visit orderlymeds.com to learn more about which GLP-1 you could be eligible for. Getting started is fast, easy, and happens virtually through telemedicine from licensed professionals. Check it out for yourself. Go to orderlymeds.com slash podcast. That's orderlymeds.com slash podcast. Taking care of yourself feels great. Compat and medications are not FDA approved. Eligibility required and determined by a licensed provider.

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2:03:17Michael Phillips:We learned how to love dogs from the dogs that loved us and waited for us to get home from school. They were the dogs that raised us. We returned the love with pedigree dog food. It was good then, and it's better now. Every bowl has 100 % complete nutrition, supporting six health essentials, and now it includes vitamin good bites, a nutrient boost your dog will love. Pedigree. Good then. Better now. This episode is brought to you by Bobcat. They started the compact equipment industry through grit, determination, and a whole lot of think we can't do that? Watch us. They set standards, broke records, empowered people to build bigger and higher, to dig deeper, to make the impossible possible.

2:04:04Michael Phillips:We've all been there, with doubters telling us what we can't do. Who cares what they think? We don't need their permission or forgiveness. We just get things done. So go ahead and doubt me. Judge me. Challenge me. But when the time comes, watch me. Bobcat.