Obsession and Power Ballad: Be Careful What You Wish For | #1068

24:09Adam Kempenaar:I really think I probably did, but I can't remember for sure.

24:14Josh Larsen:No, no, I did. I did. This is my, yeah, my dad took me on vacation. This is the Indiana Jones movie we saw in Michigan. So yeah. Yeah. Yeah, but would love to do it again because it deserves that big screen.

24:25Adam Kempenaar:June 21st. Now, if you can't make it to that or even if you can, of course, disclosure day. And Josh has just been circling around this and he doesn't want to predispose me any way. He's not giving me any hints about how he feels or the substance about how he feels. But I know that he is buzzing about he's vibrating out of his chair as I look at him. having just seen this movie the night before. I talked to Michael Phillips last night and I know he was at the screening. He probably loves it too. I feel so left out. Don't be left out. Go see Disclosure Day. See it on the big screen. See it at a Regal Cinema and you might just be able to see it for free as a Regal Unlimited member because it's the all-you-can-watch movie subscription pass that pays for itself in just two visits.

25:12Adam Kempenaar:Regal is offering our listeners endless movies for less. All you have to do is sign up using the code filmspot26 and you get 15 % off. You can see any standard 2D movie anytime with no blackout dates or restrictions, and you don't just save on tickets. You also get 10 % off all non-alcoholic concessions. Sign up now in the Regal app, where we do have a link in our podcast description. Don't forget to use the code FILMSPOT26 to receive your discount.

25:47Josh Larsen:is it possible and maybe this is clear and i just missed it but now that you're describing it that he's wearing his grandma's sweaters because there's a couple references and they they look vintage right they don't look particularly so i wonder if that's if that's a part of this too and real quick on michael johnston as bear um right in probably the second scene i got anthony Perkins Norman Bates vibes that's so funny doing that intentionally or it's just a slight physical

26:15Adam Kempenaar:resemblance I do like that connection yeah I can see that and I can also see in him though somehow it's more physical obviously than anything but I also see him as a young Bruce Campbell somehow so we'll see what happens with Michael Johnston it's there it's there in the in the face but I do want to acknowledge because I said that opening scene he feels like a whiny baby he's being so vulnerable That's the reaction that his friend Ian has. I think that's the reaction that so many of us as men have watching him in the theater. We all react like Ian does. And we go, you can't be that vulnerable.

26:48Adam Kempenaar:You can't say those things. And yet we're also men. I think Josh, the two of us would say, well, we want men to be able to be vulnerable and not be emotionally constipated, to use your words. And so the movie is provoking us and forcing us to confront those kinds of questions. I like what you said about dodginess with her, especially with Indy, because I think it speaks to something that this movie is tapping into that I also really appreciated, which is, and it's something that good horror does, right? But the moment that you spoke to with her, the secrets that she seems to be keeping or the ambiguity around her feelings, the moment at the car where he says goodnight to her right before he makes the wish, she challenges Bear to express his feelings.

27:36Adam Kempenaar:And it really isn't clear. This is credit to Navaretti. It really isn't clear just based on how she plays it, whether Nikki wants him to say yes or no. The as a viewer, you really are thinking it's possible. She she really wants him to say no or or this is the time where she's she's finally ready for him to say it. And if he proclaims it, she might actually want to be with him. She just needs to step up and say it. And that's all in Navarrete's performance. But this idea of secrets, you think about horror. I was talking about this darker part within us. Right. Good horror always is tapping into something.

28:15Adam Kempenaar:And sometimes it's really it's actually a supernatural manifestation of some darkness within us or it's just an extension or it's the evil finds fertile ground in something within the characters themselves. And I like that Barker establishes the secret sides to all of these characters. We just talked about it a little bit with Bear. We're talking about it a little bit with Nikki, but there are revelations to come later about Nikki and secrets that she's keeping, about secrets that Ian, his best friend, supposedly is keeping from him, about Sarah, even the fourth member of this quartet of friends that she's keeping.

28:54Adam Kempenaar:information and feelings in this whole circle that are being repressed. And then you've got Bear, who is the central repressor of information and feelings in everything he does. Right. And it's not just over Nikki, but like I said, over whatever seemed to happen to his parents, whatever seemed to happen to his grandmother, that that odd issue around potential drug use. He just he is in a constant state of duplicity. And so that that that foundation, I think, does that that allows all of this to spring out of that.

29:30Josh Larsen:Yeah, I think the dynamics among the four of them are, you know, are well observed and trying to capture a social circle like that where they're all friends, but they're also all young and single and, you know, looking for romance. And that just feeds into these. What did you mean by that? Do you mean this dynamic that's really at the heart of any interaction among the four of them? and so i yeah i think that's a strength of movie too really quick while we're making comparisons based on physical uh appearances i couldn't get out of my head ian played by cooper tomlinson a young christopher nolan i was sure this looks exactly like if he was an actor yeah yeah that's neither here nor there uh to go back to the uh filmmaking uh which it sounds like we both really appreciate and barker's choices here i like that he committed to that direct fixed camera that the movie opens with.

30:29Josh Larsen:There's not a lot of, um, you know, for back rooms, I talked about all the different techniques employed on the various visits to the back rooms here for the most part, he commits to a fixed camera, allows the creepiness to emerge from the frame, uh, often with blocking very much with lighting. This is, this is a dark movie to its credit. There were times, and this is going to vary depending on your theater projection where I thought it might've been skewing a little too dark, but then very purposefully so many shots of Nikki backlit so that she is just a silhouette. That's right. Before the wish even, which is some nice, some nice foreshadowing.

31:10Josh Larsen:And yeah, that, that, um, you know, you're so cute when your sleep sequence in almost entirely depends on keeping that camera fixed and allowing things to happen within the frame. Now there is a very funny, I won't spoil it. camera slide. And this speaks to the movie working as a comedy during a party sequence and they're playing a game and someone picks a block that says, kiss the person on your left. See, this is the payoff when you show commitment to a reliable study technique, you can break from it maybe once or twice or three times. And the payoff is so much better.

31:47Adam Kempenaar:Yeah, it's a really great point. The lighting is what really stood out here for me. And it's combined with that perspective that you're speaking to. The moment the wish is made, we get our first semi-jump scare. It's where Bear turns his head in the car on the street and she has suddenly reappeared on the porch. We've seen her go inside. But right after he's made the wish, all of a sudden she's back on the porch. But what also matters is how she is faceless at that point. We can't see her at all. She is completely silhouetted in darkness. And then that is used multiple times throughout the rest of the film.

32:30Adam Kempenaar:But especially that next night when she returns to his house, effectively, let's say to seduce him, to prove her love for him. She returns to his apartment. The camera does follow her from behind, very shrouded in darkness. And then I'm going to say, Josh, I actually think when he opens the door and we see her standing there or don't see her standing there, I think it's a shot of the year candidate. Because when he opens it, she's wearing this this we can barely see it, but we know she's wearing this red dress and it does provide just enough of a red glow that it it's ominous. but there's this forced perspective.

33:12Adam Kempenaar:It's the, it's the straight on point of view, but it's also this forced perspective where the, the background is this vertigo, like disorientation. The focus is completely on her face, except it's really not because she is completely in shadow. But did you notice that little twinkle in her eye? They put some kind of light, right? Just in her eye. And it becomes almost this, demonic little twinkle. And you know, we know as viewers that, of course, we know because we know what the movie's about, but that's where we really know we're clued in that something is off and you want to grab Bear and just be like, my guy, close the door.

33:59Adam Kempenaar:But this also gets to something, Josh, that I think is so effective about the movie. And I'm going to say, this is where the movie went to another level for me. And it's the, the, the ideas that the movie raised for me that I don't know whether or not other people care about this stuff or it raised these questions or not, or, or they're, they're focusing more on the gender things. But for me, what, what it really got at was Bear's ability to deny everything that's in his face, right. And continue to go along with this because he wants it so badly. And I think we talked about this with Backrooms.

34:41Adam Kempenaar:We're probably, I think, coming up for bonus content here, going to have to revisit the film. It follows. It's inevitable in any conversation where you have. And I think this more or less qualifies as high concept horror where where the natural and supernatural collide. And I think with maybe one exception that we might get into if we talk a little spoilers, I really like how Barker handled the rules here. the ambiguity of the rules. And I get or I like that in this world, the one wish Willow actually works. How? Doesn't matter. Perfect. We get, I think we understand that Nikki has been effectively replaced by a new force.

35:25Adam Kempenaar:You know, I picked up on that the word being used in the discourse around this movie is entity. And that seems appropriate because it's not Nikki. It's not really Nikki. It's not like she's just under some kind of spell. It actually does feel like an independent organism has taken over Nikki's body, almost like in The Thing. And this entity, like in The Thing, has one directive, which isn't to survive. It's to love bear more than anyone else in the world. and that's where I want to pause for a second because I think that's the whole concept and I think that's Barker's insight and I think that's where this movie is really strong is that if you want to make someone love you above all else and if we're really honest with each other going back to where I started we've all had that feeling whether we would ever follow through on any of this or not we've all had that feeling if you want to make someone love you above all else or make someone love you at all, the only way to accomplish that is to dehumanize them, to strip away everything about them, their free will, right?

36:34Adam Kempenaar:To strip away everything about them that made them someone you wanted to be with in the first place. And this is why then too, I think, it's not just for the sake of horror and the occasional jump scare that the real Nikki occasionally becomes sentient and breaks through. The wish didn't just change Nikki because you can't just change someone like that. You'll get Nikki, but at some point you'll have to reckon with the fact that it's a whole new entity just in Nikki's body. And here's where I give Barker credit too. The movie acknowledges that for at least a moment, and you mentioned the scene, Bear has this very realization that I might actually just be with Nikki's body.

37:18Josh Larsen:and he and he accepts it yeah seems to accept that right and that for me just real quickly on navarrete's performance that's the other level of it is because she is asked to go back and forth on occasion between the nickys and does it so deftly creepily and quite funny in other moments so that's why the performance is so good but yeah that's the key question adam to go back to the scene at the doorway you know you say the audience realizes what's going on here with her does bear and i think if i have a little hesitation about the movie is i felt like he does very fairly early on realize it he may be denying it to himself and so that ambiguity that tension for me was a little loss where tedious is too strong of a word maybe repetitive it became a cycle of you know how how far is he going to know now that he knows this?

38:12Josh Larsen:And, and, uh, but I do think it's one of the key questions on the movie is his, how do you even define his culpability here? I think that's interesting. And if it's answered for you fairly early on, as it was for me, um, then maybe, you know, the movie doesn't tease you along quite as much. If you're going back and forth more, I'm not saying you were, but just in audiences, if that's a question that's rattling around in your brain throughout, then I can see why you might an audience member might be enthralled to the very end well i'm just not even really

38:43Adam Kempenaar:thinking in those terms i just think something else that the movie gets right as i was saying is that it understands that we as human beings especially when we want something very badly have a innate strong ability to deny what we know to be true and and see complete we have blinders on and we can see past it. And first of all, he doesn't like us in this world. Bear doesn't live in a world where making a wish on a toy works. Right. And his friend tells him that she was probably just high on Molly in addition to being drunk, which he knows she was. And she then comes over to the door and makes a not only a pretty compelling case, but makes the same case, reiterates the exact same thing that the friend said, telling him what he wants to hear.

39:36Adam Kempenaar:And again, that's the key. It's what he wants to hear. And that's all it takes is us hearing what we want to hear. There's just a lot about human nature that I think Barker exposes here. But to go to the next level with it, Josh, and picking up on the part about Nikki's body and Barker kind of prodding at that question, how much of Barker's attraction, how much of Bear's attraction is rooted in the physical? How much are any of us willing to admit that our love is rooted in the physical? And I think where obsession gets even more provocative for me, and it's in the realm actually of even really good sci-fi.

40:14Adam Kempenaar:I'm thinking of a movie like Solaris. What's real? What really matters? Subjective truth, fantasy, or objective reality? If the fantasy is providing you with the love, the emotional nourishment, the physical affection you need, and it feels real. Can that be enough? And I use those words, you know, what really matters intentionally, because in the movie, there's that montage, right? Where Bear, because he's convinced himself, she's convinced him, he's accepted it. He's accepted this reality. And it's, it's working. Everything is great, maybe 99 % great. And I say that because I do love the touch that in this montage, when they're watching shows, they're watching a movie at home or something, she won't watch the movie.

41:04Adam Kempenaar:She'll keep looking at him and he has to direct her face back to the movie. And, and here's, he's getting very, very directly what he wanted, her complete constant affection. And of course, that's not really what he wants. He just wants someone to watch the movie with him, right? So that's the rub. But he then at that restaurant scene, he learns something from Ian, his friend, that then suggests maybe everything he's been experiencing isn't real, like he had convinced himself. Maybe it is actually the wish. It isn't really Nikki. It isn't really her loving him. And what does she say? She says, why does it matter?

41:47Adam Kempenaar:She says, why does it matter? And that's the line of the movie for me. Now, it matters if Nikki is doing completely insane things and making you miserable, and she's breaking the illusion, and you have to confront it. But those really only start, Josh, after that moment, after he starts questioning her love. There's that one freakout when they make out the first night. After that, it's the rom-com montage. It's only after the entity starts having to maintain its grip because it feels like it's losing bear. But it didn't matter before when they were when they were loving each other. And it was like a it was like a movie.

42:26Adam Kempenaar:It didn't matter when she was encouraging him to follow his heart and become a food critic just a few moments before at the restaurant. He was getting the physical and intellectual and emotional being he always wanted, all because he had effectively convinced himself that she was in love with him. He had everything he always wanted, so why does it matter? If it looks like Nikki and talks like Nikki and loves and supports you like you wanted Nikki to love and support you, and is saying the things back to you you wanted to say to her. she's literally using the same words you used at the beginning of the movie in that scene the play acting scene at the restaurant then why why does it matter and yet it does it does seem to matter right but that's but that's the fascinating question why does it matter that

43:13Josh Larsen:might be the line that he responds to it might be where he says then it doesn't matter to me and then there's the kind exactly sex scene i i think that's i think that's it and yet in terms of the physical intimacy, yeah, you've got my mind thinking. I knew It Follows was a possibility, but it didn't pop to the forefront of my mind while watching Obsession. But I bet there are going to be some, if we end up for film spotting family members doing that as a bonus show, there might be some nice connections to touch on.

43:40Adam Kempenaar:Yeah. I do just finally want to close with a little bit more praise for Navarretti. I know you mentioned it and I agreed with you, But I'm all in that that scene in the restaurant I mentioned the the moment when she says, why, why does it matter? But everything before that, that combination of scary witch eruption. Yes. Mixed with wounded little baby girl. What a tightrope. It's so fun and funny.

44:10Josh Larsen:Exactly. And that's why acrobatic came to mind. And she almost pulls out this. It's almost like when she does let out a scream or something guttural or a yell, she starts yawning first. It's almost like there's this slow yawn. Now, sometimes she just bursts out and scares the crap out of you. But there are other moments where it captures this tension we've been talking about. There are two consciousnesses in there or something. Yes. Fighting in conflict with each other. It's an incredible turn.

44:43Adam Kempenaar:That that's that smile that she holds at one point. I think it's when she says, you know, I'll just wait for you here. It's almost like she's trying to the entity is trying. Not that I think it would be drawing on this reference, but almost like it's trying to to be the the stereotypical 50s housewife saying, you know, I'm just going to smile and look pretty and wait for you here at home and suggesting everything is normal, which is what Bear keeps saying. And what better expression of that, what better expression of the twisted nature of their relationship and the conflict inside her and these circumstances overall than that smile that is just too tightly scrunched up.

45:26Adam Kempenaar:a smile that should be expressing joy, but looks absolutely painful and disturbing at the same time. And then I love that you used acrobatic because the physicality of the performance, too, is so impressive. It's one of the standout performances of the year, there's no doubt.

45:43Josh Larsen:I would agree. And it's funny you mentioned the smile. My niece, who hasn't—I was talking with her about this last night. She's only seen the trailer. She says, yeah, it looks very much like the Smile movies, that horror series. So I can see that as well. Yeah. Great performance. Indeed.

45:59Adam Kempenaar:Obsession out now in wide release as everyone apparently is well aware, Josh, and we're assuming that many of you have seen it. And we know some of you have been eagerly anticipating a conversation about this movie here on Film Spotting. We hope you got what you were hoping for. We would love your feedback. You can email us feedback at filmspotting.net. I was calling to see if there's a way I can cancel a wish I'm sorry we don't really do that So she's just stuck like this forever? Well yeah I mean as long as you live As long as I live Obsession is out now in wide release If you've seen it and would like to share your thoughts Any theories you have about the film We'd love to hear them Feedback at filmspotting.net Apple Vacations, where your story starts.

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48:51Adam Kempenaar:Josh, let's take a moment to thank our family members. We've got a couple of family plus members in Damien Cannon, who's in London. Tanner Hoisington in Charleston, South Carolina. Love Charleston. I love London too, quite frankly. When family members join, we invite them to answer a few questions. We want to get to know them better, share a little bit about them with our audience. And we're going to tell our audience to start how Damien and Tanner found FilmSpotting.

49:17Josh Larsen:For Damien, I used chat GPT to suggest some good film podcasts as I was bored with my previous one and film spotting came recommended. Okay. AI is our best friend. Well, let's say score one. Let's not go overboard here. Tanner shared this. Honestly, no idea at this point, but it would have been around 2015 because I have vivid memories of listening to episodes walking around my study abroad town in Italy. Well, doesn't that sound lovely?

49:47Adam Kempenaar:It does. Favorite films or filmmakers, Damien says, has to be the Cone brothers for their ability to delight. They do that. Tanner says, Satoshi Kon, taken from us too soon. The Japanese animator was only 46 when he died in 2010. I've mentioned this before, Josh, but Paprika, Tokyo Godfathers, Millennium Actress, all three unseen by me. This is very much Satoshi Kon, a future marathon topic in waiting for me.

50:17Josh Larsen:I mean, the problem is I've seen all three of those. I'd be happy to see them again. Okay. When I replace you. Or that. I mean, that's an option as well. Otherwise, let me just throw out there, you know, blind cow reviews are always another way. Another way we could go with these. But yeah, give that some thought. That sounds better, actually. How about favorite books about films or filmmaking? Damien suggested With Nails by Richard E. Grant, as it is downright hilarious. As for Tanner, none come to mind. Don't tell my film studies minor professors. Uh-oh. Yeah. You don't need to do the reading for the minor, right, Adam?

50:54Josh Larsen:No. Readings are just— No, not really. Yeah. That's what you require of your students.

50:59Adam Kempenaar:That's right. What if they're listening, though, Tanner? We thank Damien and Tanner for being family members. You can follow Damien on Letterboxd at Damien Cannon. That's Damien with two A's. And Tanner is at Tanner Bomb. That's Tanner without two A's. It's got an E in it. Tanner Bomb.

51:17Josh Larsen:I follow both of them on Letterboxd, and that's how I was able to confirm that Damien, yes, Damien is the Damien who came to the film spotting meetup in London just past December. So great to talk to him there. And thanks to both of them for their family plus support. Sure. In addition to doing, to keeping us doing what we're doing, membership does come with perks. You can listen early and ad free. You'll also get our weekly newsletter. There are exclusive opportunities, including the Film Spotting, Family Discord, and monthly bonus shows. the June bonus show recording is right around the corner, but it is dependent on family members vote.

51:58Josh Larsen:We are doing a, we were wrong once episode. So choosing a film where at least one of the three of us, you, me, producer, Sam had a conventionally unaccepted opinion on a movie and the three we're offering to family members. How about this range here? Horror film, It Follows, The Nolan, Tenet, and Spielberg's Hook. We wanted to tie each of those to a summer release.

52:25Adam Kempenaar:Yeah, and we're taping this on a Tuesday afternoon. The poll closes Wednesday at midnight, so we have a little bit of time. As of this moment, Josh, this very moment, Tenet is ahead of It Follows by one vote.

52:43Josh Larsen:by one vote, meaning Hook's way behind, Hook's out of it? Hook's way behind.

52:48Adam Kempenaar:It's not going to be Hook. Hook is picking up the rear. We thought that the 90s kids would turn out in full force and we were going to have to review the Spielberg movie that the two of us deem as one of his worst films. But you know what? We're conventional wisdom on that. It's his lowest rated film on Rotten Tomatoes, but it is a nostalgic favorite, it seems, for a lot of our 90s kid listeners. It follows, obviously, David Robert Mitchell has The End of Oak Street coming out this summer. Christopher Nolan, I've heard he has another film coming out this summer, July, I believe. We thought Tenet is one.

53:26Adam Kempenaar:I have ranked as my least favorite Nolan. You have it 11 of 12, I believe. I think so.

53:32Josh Larsen:Yeah, neither of us were a fan of that one. No, so we thought we'll put it on the list. It follows you and Sam are on the outs for that one. I was a huge fan of it. Yes. But you you were not so much. And Sam, am I remembering right from our conversations, bailed? Sam bailed? Bailed. Yeah. And I love his his two word.

53:51Adam Kempenaar:Not quite a review. Bad vibes. Which. Well, he's not accurate. No. So it looks like either we're going to be forced to wade back into the bad vibe territory or mind-bending territory with Tenet. One of the two we'll know very soon, and you'll get to hear us talk about that if you're a film spotting family member for as little as$5 a month. And that's discounted if you pay annually. You can support the show and get all the benefits Josh mentioned. You can also support us by rating or reviewing us on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Filmspottingfamily.com is where you can find out everything you need to know about joining the family.

54:37Elliot. I'm keeping him. What is it? He won't hurt you, Gertie. He won't hurt you, Gertie. I'm not going to hurt you.

55:21Adam Kempenaar:approach that we've been using for years here on film spotting the incinerator idea where you pit two movies against each other and you really have to think about it in terms of one of them's going to disappear forever but we're throwing in the idea of insightful commentary as well

55:38Josh Larsen:josh it's true we usually yeah the incinerator is usually applied for like polls or or of course in film spotting madness it comes into play right you got to choose between two films here we're really raising those stakes and giving the debate the space it needs before making that final choice to get rid of a beloved film once and for all well you mentioned space and we just heard a clip from

56:05Adam Kempenaar:et sure enough we went down the disclosure day spielberg path for our june episode our first episode. We do plan to drop movie deathmatch episodes of the first Monday of every month. And the goal is to have a tie in with a major release that month. So we had Spielberg's aliens duo to all timers. And you have to pick between them. And we had two great advocates in Margaret Weidekamp, the chair of space history at the National Air and Space Museum in Washington, D.C. And Jen Chaney, who is an author and critic over at Vulture, she advocated for E.T. So took those two classics, had to ultimately decide which one was going to stick around forever.

56:49Adam Kempenaar:And I don't want to jinx it, even though it's booked, they're booked, it's happening, but it hasn't happened yet. We haven't recorded July's episode yet. Interstellar versus Inception, Josh, but the guests are great. One of the guests is someone that's new to me, and the other one is someone who will not be new to most of our listeners, but has never been heard on our podcast before.

57:14Josh Larsen:Well, and one of the things I love about the concept so far early on is getting that mix of critical acumen, which you can see from the first two guests, but also background in what the movie is about, because that's bringing forward, at least based on the first episode so far, just bringing forward so much interesting stuff that maybe hasn't been considered before about these iconic movies. and Chris has been great about bringing, you know, production history tidbits to it as well. So it really is something different than what we've done even in our Sacred Cows. I would say you're getting, yeah, you're just getting a look at these movies from a particular and a different angle and so far it's been really rich.

58:00Josh Larsen:So can't wait to hear that Nolan episode as well.

58:03Adam Kempenaar:Yeah, I will just say that you're going to have a perspective on Interstellar that the two of us definitely could not provide. And you're going to get a perspective on Inception from someone who understands Nolan very deeply, much more deeply than the two of us. That will be my hint. So look for that in the Film Spotting feed if you haven't heard it already. We'd love your feedback, feedback at filmspotting.net. That brings us to our new deeply flawed Film Spotting poll inspired by Movie Deathmatch, inspired by Spielberg's Disclosure Day. we're asking the wider film spotting audience to choose just one are you more of a 70s kid i suppose are you more of an 80s kid josh you got to pick one is it et the extraterrestrial or is it close encounters of the third kind is this not that much of a death match for you or what are you predicting for our audience.

59:01Adam Kempenaar:Is E.T.

59:02Josh Larsen:the obvious choice here? I mean, it is for me. And this comes up, you know, whenever you rank Spielberg, I think I've had this conversation on my Letterboxd Spielberg ranked list. It might really just come down to the age you were at when you encountered Spielberg's movies. And for those younger audiences who maybe didn't grow up in the 70s or grow up in the 80s, that mixes things up a bit. You know, maybe you started with Close Encounters in the 2000s for some reason. I do think it's going to be related to the age you were at when you were encountered his movie. For us, it just kind of lines up.

59:40Josh Larsen:At least for me, it lines up with the 80s. And so I do have E.T. there. I have it ranked number one. I have Close Encounters number four. The gap between those and for me, Jaws and AI, it's very small. But somebody's got to be one. Somebody's got to be two, three, and four. So for me, this poll is pretty easy just because I can pull up that list and even taking into account the arguments that were made on Movie Deathmatch, which, as I said, had me reconsidering things from different angles. I think I'm going to stick with E.T.

1:00:13Adam Kempenaar:I was trying to look back on Letterboxd to see when the last time I reviewed E.T. was, like trying to see the log, because I know we talked about it on the show. Feels like it wasn't that long ago. Yeah. And I'm not, it looks like maybe it was that long ago, Josh, because it's showing eight years ago and that's how time works these days, right? It flies much faster than we think. there was a time where I would have thought Close Encounters was the obvious choice for me because I hadn't seen E.T. in such a long time but I know the last experience I had with it was so rich that when I put together my Spielberg ranked list on Letterboxd E.T.

1:00:58Adam Kempenaar:was put in at number three that's where it sits and Close Encounters is not too far behind at number five but it is there you at number five. So E.T., I'm going to stick with my list for now. And we are both voting E.T. We would love to know your vote. And if you'd like to leave a comment, you could do that as well. We just might read your feedback on the show. That poll is available at filmspotting.net. Josh, Film Spotting Fest is getting ever closer. We're getting excited. What would you like to tell our audience about Film Spotting Fest if they haven't gotten their tickets yet.

1:01:37Josh Larsen:Well, they need to know the date. Yeah, right around the corner. June 27 and 28 here in Chicago. Four films, two venues, all over that one weekend. And if you don't know already, wait till you hear these titles. Agnes Bartas' Cleo from 5 to 7 is going to kick things off. In the Pantheon. And our guest, it is in the Film Spotting Pantheon, our guest for that screening and for the post-screening Q &A is Agnes Varda, biographer and critic Carrie Rickey. Can't wait for that conversation. We will also have a guest, the guest to have for the film, Cretia, the writer-director, Trey Edward Schultz. That will be happening on Saturday as well.

1:02:18Josh Larsen:And then Saturday night, we close out with Wet Hot American Summer. Our friend and Chicago critic, Scott Tobias, will be joining us. And the star will be joining us, Marguerite Moreau, one of the stars of Wet Hot American Summer as well. So four of us will be talking about that beloved cult comedy on Saturday night. We'll close out the fest Sunday morning with a matinee of the Royal Tenenbaums at 25 on 35 millimeter with beloved Chicago critic Michael Phillips.

1:02:50Adam Kempenaar:Tickets are on sale now. All the info you need is at filmspottingfest.com. That's filmspottingfest.com. We hope to see you there. Brian, I'm going to be honest with you. That smells like pure gasoline. They've done studies, you know. 60 % of the time, it works every time. That doesn't make sense. Well, let's go see if we can make this little kitty purr. Before we talk about Paul Rudd in the new Power Ballad, we want to get to some poll results. A couple of weeks ago, we asked you, what is Paul Rudd's MVP supporting performance? The options were Mr. Anderson in The Perks of Being a Wallflower, Cher's former stepbrother, Josh in Clueless, Action News Field Reporter, Brian Fantana, and Anchorman, Seth Rogen's married friend, Pete, and Knocked Up, Make Out King Andy in Wet Hot American Summer, or other, you could go with any other performance, as long as it's supporting in Paul Rudd's filmography.

1:03:56Adam Kempenaar:Josh, how did it come out?

1:03:59Josh Larsen:Mr. Anderson came in last place. The Perks of Being a Wallflower, I haven't seen it, Adam. So maybe that's the situation for other voters, but 2 % for Perks. Other came next in the voting with 7%. A few titles mentioned. Friendship, that recent one from last year with Tim Robinson. Also the 40-year-old Virgin. and Baz Luhrmann's Romeo and Juliet, which guest host Roxanna Haddadi picked when she was on the show. Pete knocked up. That's what placed next with 10 percent of the vote. And then we jump up here to the top three. Josh and Clueless, 23 percent. Andy from Wet Hot American Summer, 26 percent.

1:04:40Josh Larsen:But Brian Fantana from Anchorman took the poll with 32 percent of the vote.

1:04:46Adam Kempenaar:32 % of the time he wins every time. Michael Marinelli says this was actually a pretty difficult decision. He is magic and clueless and wet hot American summer, but my vote has to go to the iconic Brian Fantana and both Anchorman and wet hot Rudd takes roles that would be unlikable if done by almost any other actor and endears you to them hard 60 % of the time. See, I didn't even read this, Josh. I swear. 60 % of the time he wins every time. Yes, you have to go to that quote, the most iconic quote from that character. Thank you, Michael.

1:05:21Josh Larsen:Heard this from Adam. Oh yeah, I will vote. Um, I just got, I don't have time right now. Yeah.

1:05:29Adam Kempenaar:And he, he linked to the wet hot American summer clip and you'll get, you'll, you'll see a theme here because then Kate K wrote in and said, I cannot think of Rudd's performance in Wet Hot America Summer without grinning. And I saw the movie over 10 years ago. And she also wrote link to wet hot clip and then wrote in and said, ha, just saw that Adam linked to the same clip as me. Indeed, they posted their feedback and the exact same clip within three minutes of each other. This is Sam talking. You might say that they came together. Well done, Sam. Yes, this this scene, we'll post it. You probably even know what one we're talking about but we'll post it in the show notes and you can click on it in the pod podcast description or film spotting.net that scene from wet hot american summer where he just with janine garofalo where he just acts like i don't know a seven-year-old

1:06:20Josh Larsen:that doesn't want to do his chores he's so good yeah i was gonna i was gonna go three three-year-old who you told to clean up the playroom yeah i think that's where i've seen it you gonna clean that up oh yeah i will um i just got i don't have time right now clean it up and come to my office for the meeting i gotta here's austin i recently had to pick my favorite movie quote as part of a team building slash getting to know you activity at work austin work for you adam is this is this where that happened? He could. Yeah. I realized I had never thought about this before and did not have a favorite movie quote.

1:07:01Josh Larsen:And I proceeded to think about this for way too long before finally settling on you taste like a burger. I don't like you anymore.

1:07:10Adam Kempenaar:Wet hot for the win. Okay. Here's Lisa Nelson. Paul Rudd takes what has historically been a complicated love interest role in Clueless. Josh Lucas, aka Mr. Knightley from Jane Austen's Emma and effortlessly turns it into a delightfully warm portrayal of Cher's one-time stepbrother who is desperately trying to keep his little crush a secret. Paul Rudd is always extremely likable, but here he is downright lovable and could give any dreamy Mr. Knightley, Mark Strong, Jeremy Northam, Johnny Lee Miller, Johnny Flynn, etc., a run for his money.

1:07:41Josh Larsen:Whoa. I don't know. That could be fighting words, Lisa, for some Jeremy Northam diehards? I think they're out there. Scott G. also wrote in, my other vote goes to Rudd's delightful turn as Scott Lang, a.k.a. Ant-Man, in 2019's Avengers Endgame. Lang is still endearingly starstruck by all the superheroes he gets to work alongside during the time heist, but Rudd also has a few dramatic moments to play, when his character first emerges from his sci-fi entrapment and finds the world dramatically changed during the five years he was gone. One particular moment stands out for me. Finding a large memorial to the vanished people in a San Francisco park, Lang desperately searches through the names, hoping that his daughters is not among them.

1:08:24Josh Larsen:You know what, Scott? That's convincing. I just rewatched this for a paper. And once again, that's the strongest part of Endgame is that opening third, dealing with the loss. And Rudd gets some nice moments there.

1:08:37Adam Kempenaar:He does. Here's Gabriel to close us out. Forgetting Sarah Marshall for me when life gives you lemons, just say F the lemons and bail. Great advice, Josh. I mean, really, we should all follow. I followed it almost weekly. Apple Vacations, where your story starts. The Splash into Savings event from Apple Vacations is here. Now through June 25th, save up to$150 on vacation packages, plus instant savings at select resorts in Mexico, the Caribbean, Central America, and top U.S. destinations. Use promo code JUNE26 for these limited-time offers. Start planning today at AppleVacations.com or contact your travel advisor.

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1:11:15I've been toying with this one for years. Yeah, I like that. Because every song I ever wrote in my life.

1:11:27Josh Larsen:Since 2007's Once, John Carney has made four films, all of them in one way or another about the healing power of music. Rick, 2013's Begin Again, 2016's Sing Street, 2023's Flora and Son, and now the new Power Ballad, with Paul Rudd as a down-on-his-luck wedding singer, Rick, and Nick Jonas. Yes, Nick Jonas of the Jonas Brothers as a fading boy band star. The two have a random encounter, which sees Jonas's Danny turning one of Rick's songs into a hit after a late night jam session without giving him any credit. However, Adam, you are more of the Kearney fan than me, as we've established, and a Kearney completist.

1:12:11Josh Larsen:I still need to see Begin Again. And so I feel like we've been doing some, you know, ranking and death matching on this episode so far. Can you kick things off with maybe just where Power Ballad might fall?

1:12:27Adam Kempenaar:I'm going to have to admit something, which is going to be a little embarrassing to admit, because as I recall, I gave Flora and Son a very positive review on the show. I think you may have even been positive. I like it. Did we review that together? Yeah, it's a good movie. It's a good movie. But when I was putting my notes together for Power Ballad and thinking about his filmography, I'm going to have to confess that I kind of forgot about Flora and Son. I didn't look up his filmography. I was just going off memory. And of course, I remember once and Sing Street and this. And I do remember Begin Again because it's usually thought of as his lone misfire.

1:13:01Adam Kempenaar:And because of that, it was the film that I waited the longest to see. I didn't see it when it came out. I wasn't in a rush to see it. I finally caught up with it a few years ago. And I remember being mildly disappointed in it. I didn't hate it, but I didn't love it. It's not Once or Sing Street. It's not Flora and the Sun and it's not Power Ballad either. I'd have to give it a little bit more thought and maybe even look back at my notes for Flora and the Sun to think about where I would rank Power Ballad versus Flora. I know that I certainly prefer Once and Sing Street to this film, but you know those films were in my top 10 of their respective years.

1:13:40Adam Kempenaar:I know that I literally sat in the theater for Power Ballot with a smile glued to my face pretty much the entire runtime. And yes, it's likely going to hit home a bit more for me. As you know, I said this just recently here on the show, I just played a reunion gig with my old college band. In a few weeks, it's my high school reunion. And we don't play weddings with this group, Josh, but we might as well. we're playing all the jukebox covers like like Rudd's group Rick's group in this movie we play don't stop believing and we play living on a prayer and we play summer of 69 so I'm watching the opening scene at this at this wedding and going yep I I know all these songs I've been there I've done that but but more than that I'll also say in case you're wondering if you've seen this film and you're wondering if if a key plot point in this movie seems realistic or not the day I went to see this movie, I had been messing around with the chord changes and the lyrics to a song that I never finished back in 1997.

1:14:49Adam Kempenaar:I'm not joking. I've got the lyrics. I've got four lines. I've got the lyrics and the chords to a first verse, and I've sort of got the chords for a bridge. and that's it and that's all I've ever had and I can't envision having a need to ever play this song I will never certainly record this song so Josh why am I devoting any bandwidth to this 30 years later I guess because sometimes even semi semi-pro musicians like me just can't let this stuff go. So yes, I could relate a lot to Power Ballot, but whether you can relate on that level, my level or not to this movie and the material, I think what Carney always gets right is that authenticity.

1:15:41Adam Kempenaar:There's a key line in the movie when a character says to another, you seemed real. He questions his authenticity just as a human being. I think Carney's movies just are always real. You never doubt the sincerity of Carney's movies and the earnestness of their emotions. I know that sometimes maybe a criticism is that he goes a little too far or there's too much sentimentality. That's not an issue. I guess that sentimentality, that level of earnestness is in my wheelhouse. but I'll also say all of that crumbles to go back to my earlier point all of that crumbles if the music being so important to these films if the music doesn't deliver if the music also doesn't feel authentic and yes I'd rather listen to falling slowly and when your mind's made up and the rest of the once soundtrack and I'd rather listen to drive it like you stole it in the riddle of the model and the rest of the sing street soundtrack over what we hear in power ballad But that's my preference for those styles.

1:16:44Adam Kempenaar:And we can we could talk a little bit more about that. But yes, I really I really did like Power Ballot. I want to know what you thought of it.

1:16:52Josh Larsen:yeah that's interesting i think you're onto something because my quick ranking in my head is directly related to how much i also appreciate the music like the music at once i like the most followed by sing street followed by flora and son yeah followed by what we get here in power ballad that's my film ranking it's my music ranking and maybe it does just come down to a matter of taste because yeah this sort of ballad is maybe not one of my favorite genres i think i I think the movie is fine. I think it's, it's, um, I had a good time with it as well. I think it may just turn anyone who isn't a dad already into a dad by the end of its running time.

1:17:35Josh Larsen:I mean, it's, it's really something with the talk about like the parental ambivalence, which is a bit of a plot point, right? The, the midlife questioning, um, the nostalgia, as you said, even if you don't have a one-to-one correlation as you do. Um, there's still an awful lot of guitars just sitting on stands in dad's houses that they haven't touched. And it's, so this is like, I'm telling you across gender, possibly across species, power ballad will turn you into a dad by the time you're done watching it. But I think it's, I think it was a lot of fun for me, the authenticity thing. Um, it's almost like a dial.

1:18:15Josh Larsen:I agree with you. This is what Carney is going after. And, um, the, when it's dialed just right, like in once it is an unrepeatable precious gem. Um, and that's how so many movies are, right? There's just something magical that happens. And, and even if you're working with a formula, you might not be able to get it to happen again. I think I did struggle a little bit with power ballad, um, related to the authenticity thing is tone is just moving back and forth. And I'm curious if you think this might be a Rudd thing, because I think he's, he's as Paul Rudd as he's ever been here, very pleasant, maybe veering a little bit towards bland almost, um, in a way, but, and I know he's done drama quite well, as we talked about in our poll, um, discussion, but I almost felt like this struggled a bit, whether it was going to be a broad Paul Rudd comedy in some scenes, um, which, you know, would have been fine, but there's also moments that feel like it's going to be almost like a really dark cable guy, Jim Carrey, black comedy.

1:19:22Josh Larsen:Um, which would have been interesting with the, the, um, the Nick Jonas element, you know, stealing and how far Rudd is going to go to get revenge. I mean, some of that teeters on being, on being dark and then sometimes there's this you know just a straightforward family drama and and the it became a problem in certain scenes and i'll just give one example um which doesn't involve spoilers but his teen daughter and his wife who gets significant scenes in this movie that's a big part of it they are after the song's been stolen it's playing on the radio as they're driving in the van together and he's freaking out about it and they end up because they're squabbling over whether or not turn off the song song they upend their van like on the freeway and i felt like that scene i was never understood if it was supposed to be farce the way he was reacting to the song or like i said darkly bad comedy like is this gonna kill one of them or just like a serious family drama.

1:20:27Josh Larsen:I feel like there were beats in that scene alone that hit all of those and it never had a consistent through line. I don't think it's an insurmountable problem in this movie, but there were enough of scenes like that where the dial felt off in terms of the tone management and in comparison to Carney's other work.

1:20:43Adam Kempenaar:Yeah, I think that scene, I think you're right. I think that's not farce. I think that's going for the moment where that's supposed to be kind of the pinnacle where he is definitely at his darkest. Yeah. And it's emblematic of him losing it because remember the moment before that is he's just had it out with his band. I mean, the behavior that he exhibited, and I won't get into too many details, but the behavior he has exhibited right before that is both a little wacky and potentially humorous, but also way out of character for that character and way out of line. So that in itself is a microcosm for what you're describing, right?

1:21:32Adam Kempenaar:And I agree with you that where it became an issue for me, Josh, honestly, and this is where I'm probably more nitpicking than anything, is when Carney is so good at getting the details right and being so authentic. When the movie does at various points, especially at the end for me, start to become zany comedy movie and things that that would not happen in any kind of real world, but but happen in a wacky comedy. That's where I start to then say, oh, come on, come on, come on, John. This this is this is beneath you. You know, things that happen at a concert or backstage at a concert that undermine the the authenticity.

1:22:16Adam Kempenaar:That's that's where I feel like the movie is crossing into a territory where it makes sense. I think this speaks to where you're going with Rudd to this film probably going for more of a mainstream audience than his other films have have probably tried before. for yeah and i do think that rud in the film dialing up its comedic tone and going for something that is broader than certainly something like once or or even sing street and flora and son and begin again have been rud is dialing back from what we've seen in a lot of his more comedic performances. And I don't know if I would call him bland.

1:23:02Adam Kempenaar:I think it I think it matches pretty well with the sensibility of this movie. But to go back to where this started, Josh, I think that scene still felt to me, the one you're describing still felt to me like it pushed the darkness, like we got there a little bit too quickly that we got to a point of real something really grave, something really potentially dangerous, a little too quickly for that character,

1:23:26Josh Larsen:a little too quickly and for me zany is a great word for me it was like it veered from zany to darkness and and i felt like i wasn't sure how how i was meant to be reacting which you should say well who cares but to your point this is a general audience movie like you're you should have a clear understanding of what your experience is supposed to be and and and it feel here's the trick your experience still feels authentic rather than manipulated right yeah yeah um yeah i think to the music, I would just say, man, there's more than one song here, but the main song, and it makes sense. The whole plot revolves around this song.

1:24:03Josh Larsen:I knew you'd have this issue. It is played so often. I put it in my notes. I no longer have an opinion about it. I know. It's like one of those songs that gets played on the radio or when we used to listen to the radio. So often, someone eventually goes, do you like it? And you're like, you know what? I don't know. Do I like air? Do I like... It's just like they really pummel that thing.

1:24:39Adam Kempenaar:I thought about it a lot during the film because I had the same thought process you did where it's like, OK, a lot of movies, when a character has a song that becomes a hit. the way they handle that is they'll usually have the moment where they write it and they give you the first performance of it or a snippet of the first performance of it. And then they'll give you a snippet of the first time they play it for someone, right? Or it gets played on the radio. And then they'll usually, and then you don't hear it for the rest of the movie until maybe the grand performance at the end. Sometimes there's only two moments of that performance and you only hear them talk about it they save it right and you really do in this movie you hear this song how to write a song maybe i don't know 347 times i don't know it it feels like that and it it does and so part of that is it maybe they were almost trying to go for feeling to the audience feeling for the audience like it must have felt for Paul Rudd's character, Rick, to feel like it just was in your head all the time.

1:25:54Adam Kempenaar:That is his experience. Overwhelming you. Right now, that said, this goes back to what I was going to say about the music. And yes, I'm with you on the rankings of the music, but I don't hold that against John Carney because this is the milieu that this movie is working within and and i still think it gets it right in terms of the song has to work for this movie's milieu and when rick when they sit down for the first time and and rick offers his first suggestion to danny to improve the song he's working on does his suggestion work it does and when danny first starts playing rick's song on the piano and his girlfriend hears it from the other room and we're with her do our ears perk up just like hers do and do we want him to keep playing it just like she does do we understand why she wants him to keep playing it yes do we understand why it's the earworm that it is yes i think i think we do so the song the song has to work or this movie sure this movie fails right i mean we have to believe that it's a hit and and it works on that look And every song I ever wrote in my life It's about you Apple Vacations, where your story starts The Splash Into Savings event from Apple Vacations is here.

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1:29:12Josh Larsen:So Rudd's singing, you know, again, I am no judge of this. I have no ear, but to my ear, you know, he's got a very nice voice. but how did the singing because i know you pay attention to this having the music background this you know the playing of instruments and the and the singing matching up i felt like a fair amount of the scenes it you know it wasn't like live singing to filming you know you know it's

1:29:39Adam Kempenaar:yeah like it was a little bit of a gap there there probably was not live but at the same time meaning they could have pre-recorded it but it seemed like the band for the most part was playing their stuff including yeah and um rudd singing is exactly what i think it should be for this type of wedding singer and band yeah he can't be too good right he can't he can't be he's he's he's good he's he's perfectly adequate but but when nick jonas gets up on stage yeah at that wedding and you see how he moves and how he sings, you immediately understand why he's a star and why Paul Rudd's character is not a star.

1:30:26Adam Kempenaar:And that's something else I'll give the movie credit for in terms of its authenticity, is who has to work here? And it's as an actor, but also as a character. It's the Nick Jonas character, Danny. He has the musical chops. I'm talking about Jonas. He has the musical chops and he has the natural charisma that we understand why he is considered a pop star, whether I like his music or not. And he is drawing on something within him, something true within him when his character is wrestling on screen with how he is perceived by his fans and how he is not taken seriously by his label. He's trying to shake his his child star boy band image that feels authentic to use that word again.

1:31:19Adam Kempenaar:And I feel like he is drawing on that. But also, Josh, as a character, it's a it's a much more interesting movie because that character isn't just the bad guy. A villain, right? A villain. He has some depth. He's a real flawed person. And Jonas Jonas gives us that. It doesn't become just us wanting to see this character get his get his comeuppance. We when he says when he when he expresses himself, it's not that we necessarily feel sorry for him, but we do understand where he's coming from. And that that makes the movie work on a on a deeper level than your your average comedy of this sort might go for.

1:32:01Josh Larsen:Yeah, I think Jonas is good as well. The scene you described of them playing together at the wedding is a strong one. And I love the opening of this movie, which we're introduced to. This is something that Carney, I think, is good at is blending reality and fantasy. fantasy when you are having um in a musical experience how music allows that basically music can challenge the the blending of those experiences and here we get we're introduced to the wedding band with rick at the front and they're killing it and then he shifts to one of his old own songs and we see it from rick's perspective where he's like madison square and then we cut to like he's cleared out the wedding the reception pretty much everyone's left, which of course is a tension point with the band.

1:32:50Josh Larsen:But I like how it's something Kearney has done, particularly in Sing Street. I think there are some really lovely ways, not so much comedic, but quite moving ways in Sing Street that he blends reality and fantasy using music. And that same technique is employed here quite well.

1:33:11Adam Kempenaar:Can I tell you that my biggest criticism, my biggest issue with the film is something that I picked up on from, I think, a trailer or something pre even going into the movie that I tried to tune out because I hoped it wasn't true. And then the movie confirmed it was true. Uh-oh. And that is that the movie isn't called Power Ballad just because it's a perfectly appropriate and great name for the movie. I know. It's called Power Ballad because the character's name is Rick Power. I mean, I'm not over that, Josh. I'm not over it.

1:33:50Josh Larsen:This is you, you show tolerance to puns and this is where you end up. I'm drawing the line here. You're right.

1:33:57Adam Kempenaar:I shouldn't, I shouldn't have been so permissible. I love it. Well, Power Ballad is out now. It's currently playing in whitish release over a thousand screens. If you see it, we'd love to hear your thoughts, feedback at filmspotting.net. Josh, that's our show.

1:34:15Josh Larsen:If you want to connect with us on social media, you can find Adam and the show on Instagram, Facebook, Letterboxd, YouTube, and Blue Sky. He's at Film Spotting. You can find me at Larson on Film. We are independently produced and listener supported. You can support the show by joining the Film Spotting family at filmspottingfamily.com. You can listen early and ad-free. You'll also get monthly bonus episodes, a weekly newsletter, and access to the entire show archive. For show t-shirts and other merch, you can go to filmspotting.net slash shop.

1:34:48Adam Kempenaar:Out wide, you can see Stop That Train. RuPaul and fellow drag performers are train stewardesses on the Glamazonian Express. Didn't you go on vacation once on the Glamazonian Express, Josh?

1:35:02Josh Larsen:I feel like that's running through Brazil, possibly, which I haven't been to yet.

1:35:07Adam Kempenaar:Okay. Also out Spielberg's Disclosure Day. Next week, you will hear our conversation about the fourth film in our dissident cinema marathon, Costa Gavris' 1970 Best Foreign Language Film Oscar winner. It is Z. That's Monday. Tuesday, you'll get film spotting SVU talking about the new film over on HBO Max starring Allison Janney and Andrew Rannells. It's called Miss You, Love You. They'll have streaming recommendations, listener streaming requests, and more. The next picture show, our sister show, has their new pairing. I think the second part of Negative Spaces, Back Rooms, and 1979's Phantasm.

1:35:48Adam Kempenaar:That's Tuesday as well in the next picture show feed. And then Friday, you said it earlier, Josh, you had an experience. It sounds like, I don't know if it was the third kind, the fourth kind, the seventh kind with Disclosure Day, but it's something I look forward to hearing more about when we record our review of Disclosure Day. And you will hear that next Friday in the Film Spotting feed.

1:36:15Josh Larsen:Cannot wait. Film Spotting is produced by Golden Joe DeSoe and Sam Van Halgren. Without Sam and Golden Joe, this show wouldn't go. Our production assistant is Sophie Kempinar. Special thanks to everyone at WBEZ Chicago. More information is available at WBEZ.org. For Film Spotting, I'm Josh Larson. And I'm Adam Kempinar. Thanks for listening. This conversation can serve no purpose anymore. Goodbye.

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