The Mandalorian and Grogu and I Love Boosters | #1066

30:50And isn't it fun? And I just don't get the spirit of that within this movie. I can see that. I can see that being troubling. I think for me, what it felt like the whole time. And I don't think that The Mandalorian proper feels like this. So it's a little weird that the movie feels like this. But the movie feels very much like when you were young and you had all of your toys and You didn't need to write a story, but you just needed to smash them together and make pew-pew noises. There's a lot of that. And I understand that that is probably entertaining for children, and it doesn't ask a lot of them.

31:30But I agree with you that there's a little bit of violence as humor or menace as humor, and that's not great. But I also think about like Bugs Bunny and all the Looney Tunes cartoons were also violence as humor. So I think it's less that it's like something that I'm morally opposed to. I'm not saying kill birds. But I am saying I agree with you that those moments just feel a little bit like, oh, you took the time to write and include this, but you didn't take the time to write and include just a little bit more dialogue between Grogu and Mando or like something a little bit more for Jeremy Allen White to do than to your point, say, I'm my own man like a half dozen times.

32:20Yeah, no, that's really it. I think that's really well said. The other thing that stood out to me is I thought at first, this seems interesting, again, having not watched the TV series at all or any of these series, I thought looking at, I think it's called Adelphi, the New Republic, their base, and having it be based within this specific environment felt almost, I don't think in any way it actually is an homage to, and it doesn't look exactly like it. So I'm not making a one-to-one analogy, but it made me feel a little bit like I was watching Apocalypse Now. It seemed a setting for a Star Wars film like one I had never seen before.

33:03And that Pacific setting even took me back to sort of a World War II mindset, you know, or a Vietnam mindset at times when I'm thinking about the Robert Duvall scene, the helicopters and the surfing. And then we get to Shikari and we get to that sequence where I saw somewhere that Favreau said he modeled the planet after Prohibition era Chicago. And I guess I can understand that in terms of, right, it's a gangster thing. Yeah, sure. I understand that in terms of the way the planet is structured, the infrastructure itself. But the way it looks feels like it's lifted straight out of Blade Runner.

33:48Yeah. The Tokyo and Hong Kong that we get in Blade Runner. So that that seemed to me with with the World War Two Pacific and Blade Runner, I thought he was almost intentionally making these for the dads in the audience, you know, making these references that that would really that would mean something that would really that would really hit home. And so that that builds. I just want to go ahead and read what Matt said that I thought was interesting. And he did ultimately like the movie a little bit more. He he gives a very fair assessment of the film. He does like it a little bit more than me, but he says, unlike all the orphan loner heroes of Lucas's Star Wars movies, The Mandalorian is a father and the film around him with its heavy use of old fashioned special effects and original trilogy callbacks, not to mention its themes about the bond between parent and child feels targeted to middle age viewers hungry to relive their youthful movie going experiences with their parents at Return of the Jedi 40 years ago.

34:46now with their own kids. So in his in his review, which we'll link to, he he lays out that case, and it's a pretty good one. Yeah, I mean, I think that's probably fair. It is interesting because, yes, the dads, I don't know. I mean, I think about Leia's father. I think that there are dads throughout the franchise that are meaningful. But I agree largely with the sense of like, Like, it's very, I hate to say convenient, but it's very nice for Star Wars that there is now a kind, handsome father with an adorable puppet child to build a franchise around. What I will say to your point about the references is that this is why you need to watch Andor because Pacific Rebel Planet and Blade Runner New Tokyo inspired casino planet are both things that are very present in Andor.

35:50Andor begins with Diego Luna's character going to a brothel on like a Blade Runner inspired city and then killing a couple of like private security guards who threaten him. So it's very like I think this for me felt more like Favreau being like, what did Tony Gilroy get away with in Andor? And can I sort of mimic that here, which I personally enjoyed as well, because at least they felt different. And I think that they gave Ludwig Goranson's score. Like the score is by far the best part of this movie, I think. And the score is really popping off on the casino planet. It's putting in some exceptional like synthy 80s electronica work.

36:44It's very good. How many points do you deduct here? Not that we're rating or anything, but how many points do you deduct Favreau for just wasting Sigourney Weaver in this film? I am going to. That's how I felt anyway. I'm going to deduct no points because Sigourney still got a paycheck and she looked great. She does. Good for Sigourney. And so I'm fine with it. But yeah, I mean, she is like really phoned in. Right. It's very just like. Even in the X-Wing, she just seems like I am getting paid for this. Right. Yes. It's very perfunctory. It's very like, when does my paycheck arrive? did you like that uh dave filoni has two cameos i i didn't know the name dave filoni until i walked out of the film roxanna and had to look up who co-wrote the movie to prepare my setup so this is all news to me i still don't know who that was in the film okay so dave filoni is now like the new head of star wars essentially like he's like the new big guy and then he has two cameos in this film and one of them he in real life he wears like a very trademark brown like indiana jones style hat so in one cameo it's just him sitting at the rebel base at the bar and then it's just a shot of him alone in profile before we then get a shot of sigorty yes and then he is of course part of the like new republic assault on the hut compound.

38:25So he then has like... So in one of the X-Wings? Yeah, he's in one of the X-Wings and now he has like a gray beard. So they're trying to make him seem like a different character. But there was something really funny to me about being like, I'm going to have two cameos. Right. Yes. One is definitely not enough. Yes. And when I'm the showrunner, I can do whatever I want. I can do whatever I want. Yeah, I loved that. I almost thought, Favreau, why didn't you then put yourself in it? We got Martin Scorsese. I can use some information. Whoa. For this price, I'll tell you whatever you want. I'm looking for a hut.

38:59Clothes for the night. Thank you. How about Scorsese? I did enjoy listening to Marty during that little sequence. Couple scenes on Shikari. Because it's just Marty. You put it exactly right. It's not Marty playing a character. No. It's just if Marty ran like a gyro cart in New York City. Yes. Yes, that's exactly right. The Mandalorian and Grogu is currently playing in wide release. We would love to hear your thoughts, especially if you loved The Mandalorian and Grogu. Email us, feedback at filmspotting.net. This is the part of the show where we'd like to take a minute and thank family members who keep this show going.

39:45We have a couple family plus members. We heard from Jeff Gibson earlier. He's in Olympia, Washington. Also, Matt Gold in Wynwood, Pennsylvania. When family members join, we invite them to answer a few questions so we can get to know them. We can share a little bit more about them here on the show. So, Roxanna, tell us a little bit about Jeff and Matt. Okay, this is what Jeff wrote. Jeff said, My favorite segments are your top fives because I love making lists like that. I also love Massacre Theater, even though I usually am behind and listen after it's too late to submit my answer. I do miss the donor nicknames Maddie used to give.

40:25What were some of the donor nicknames? Oh, man, that was something Sam started. And maybe we should bring him back because Sam was pretty much single-handedly responsible for keeping this show going with PayPal donations. Listeners loved his goofy nicknames. And I honestly can't remember and Sam can't remember whether or not Maddie truly kept that going. I think Maddie might have given out nicknames, too. It seems like Jeff thinks Maddie did as well. Sam says this, though. If Jeff wants a nickname, he shall henceforth be known as Jeff Dogmatic Imperator Gibson. It's a good one. Very Mad Max. Very strong.

41:10Big fan. Yes, very strong. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Go, Jeff. And then Matt said, I discovered film spotting only recently, drawn back into film criticism by the New York Times' poll on best films of the 21st century and film spotting's similar episode. What has kept me listening are a few things. First, the depth of analysis, which routinely pushes past simple points to get to more complex interpretations. Second, the great conversations between Adam and Josh, who build on each other's points so well. And third, the frequent mentions of personal viewing gaps and homework, which remind listeners that we're all still learning that there are still great films out there for all of us to see.

41:55I love that open acknowledgement of Blind Spots, which is really an invitation for us all to keep on watching. That's so nice. Yeah, it is. It's been a part of the show since actually episode two. Wow. It was our top five Blind Spots. We admitted here's the five movies were most that was actually the name of it. We didn't have the term blind spots yet. We called it the top five movies were most embarrassed to admit we've never seen. So there you go. Here we go. Reviews we got wrong. Here's where they they get not so nice. Jeff says, I don't remember anything in particular in terms of who thought what about which movies.

42:30But I know both Adam and Josh have given some fairly appalling shrugs to movies, especially art house. Adam, he calls me. Yeah, I get that sometimes. And here's Matt, not a review, but I was disappointed that your top five Jack Nicholson moments didn't include a five easy pieces scene. I would have gone for the scene at the end of the film where Nicholson's character, Bobby Dupay, seeks a moment of connection with his catatonic estranged father. Nicholson's performance is vulnerable, raw and aching, exposing the lost connections and lack of belief in himself that have kept him on the run throughout the film.

43:03Now, Matt, I have to admit, did I really or I'm going to ask this, I suppose, by way of admission, did I really not mention that scene or any scene from Five Easy Pieces in the honorable mentions? Because I watched that scene multiple times and considered it. I know, obviously, didn't make the final cut when you're only picking five Jack Nicholson scenes. That's hard. Roxanna. It's hard because all five of them should be from The Departed. So, like, how do you have room for anything else? Yeah. Yes, good point. So I love Nicholson. I love that top five. I absolutely did consider that scene. Of course, the famous chicken salad scene.

43:43There's one other really great, at least one other really great Nicholson scene in Five Easy Pieces as well. So Matt, you're right. You're right. It should have been mentioned if it wasn't. We thank Jeff and Matt for being family members. You can follow Matt on Letterboxd at MKGold. And this has been a trend lately. We always have one family member, Roxanna, who is definitely on Letterboxd and one who maybe is either either not on it or has never even heard of Letterboxd. Wow. Yeah. So we got to we got to urge them to get on it. Yeah. Jeff does say, I do have FlickChart thanks to an old FilmSpotting sponsorship over a decade ago.

44:25Yeah, it's been a while since I've spent much time over on FlickChart. In addition to keeping us doing what we're doing, your membership does come with perks. You get to listen early and ad-free. You get our newsletter. You get exclusive opportunities like being part of our robust community over on the FilmSpotting family Discord. and you get monthly bonus shows. That new Hollywood draft is out now. Speaking of Jack Nicholson, Josh's first pick was Chinatown. Spoilers. Of course. He picked Chinatown. It had to be. It had to be. In that new Hollywood draft. I got at least one movie with Jack Nicholson in it as well.

45:03I'll let you think about what movie that might have been from the new Hollywood. At least one other Jack Nicholson movie went in that draft. Now that I think about it, I'm pretty sure a certain Hal Ashby movie with Nicholson might have gone as well. Now, Josh is still beating me in this in this poll, Roxanna, where we do the draft and then we ask listeners who won. But he's only beating me by four votes. So come on, listeners. Yeah. Listen to the draft and vote. Four people were, you know, that's how many people were at Mandalorian when I saw it. So like we can get we can get four people. I think I've got a good list, but Josh does have Chinatown in the conversation.

45:42So that's tough. It is. Filmspottingfamily.com is where you can learn everything you need to know about being part of the family. We also love ratings and reviews. You can do that over on Apple Podcasts or on Spotify. What if your soda actually did something for you? Introducing Sky Pop Protein Soda. With 10 grams of complete protein, zero sugar, and 45 calories, Sky Pop Protein Soda offers four delicious flavors with big taste and real benefits. Light, refreshing, and ready for wherever your day takes you. It's anytime protein that helps you reach higher. Sky Pop Protein Soda. Reach for the sky.

46:25Get your Sky Pop Protein Soda now at Target, Walmart, or Kroger. Amazon Health AI presents Painful Thoughts. Why did I search the internet for answers to my cold sore problem? Now I'm stuck down a rabbit hole filled with images of alarmingly graphic sores in various stages of ooze. I can clear my search history, but I can never unsee that. Don't go down the rabbit hole. Amazon Health AI gets you the right care fast. Health care just got less painful.

47:28superfans in the digital age. Ferrari fans and superfans want to be part of something, want to belong to something. So they want to be part of a community and ultimately they want to be part of a winning team. You've got Ferrari, which has a long history, design history. And now you're interacting in a kind of digital space. I'm curious how you balance those two traditions. When it comes to fan engagement, It's really digital technology and digital channels are being able to create a deeper connection with our fans. To learn more about how Ferrari and IBM are using technology to build deeper connections with fans, visit ibm.com slash Ferrari.

48:14When people turn to telehealth or weight loss, they're looking for real support. That's why more people are choosing orderlymeds.com. Orderly Meds connects you with real doctors and access to proven GLP-1 medications like semaglutide and terzeptatide. No guessing, just a more supportive experience. And all shipped directly to your door in discreet packaging. Do your research, ask questions, then visit orderlymeds.com slash podcast for an exclusive offer. That's orderlymeds.com slash podcast. Individual results may vary. Now medical advice eligibility required. Seasite for details. Are you Chuck?

48:47Oh man, you know, they won't change that flyer. That's my mainland name. My Hawaiian name is Kunu. Oh, cool. Sorry. Nah, it's all good. Does Kunu have some, like, cool Hawaiian meaning? It means Chuck. That was Paul Rudd from Forgetting Sarah Marshall. Rudd stars in the upcoming, highly anticipated at least by me, Power Ballad. And Paul Rudd is the subject of the new deeply flawed film spotting poll. Rudd has had his share of starring and co-starring performances. When you think of starring roles, Ant-Man, the trilogy maybe comes to mind. I do think I might have only seen the first in that trilogy of films.

49:29But the focus of our poll is going to be where we think Rudd really shines. It is in those supporting roles. So we are asking you to identify Rudd's MVP performance in a supporting role. And I'm going to give you the options. And Roxanna, based on what you said earlier in the show, it sounds like you might be voting other in this. Why don't you go ahead and give Film Spotting listeners their choices? Yes, their choices are Mr. Anderson and the Perks of Being a Wallflower, Cher's former stepbrother Josh in Clueless. I'm holding back a laugh because I always have to remember how convoluted they make that relationship.

50:12I know, right? Action News field reporter Brian Fantana in Anchorman, Seth Rogen's married friend Pete in Knocked Up, and Makeout King Andy in Wet Hot American Summer. And then there are some other options as well. And those other options could be literally any other option, any supporting role from Paul Rudd's extensive catalog of films. So I'm going to ask you, Roxanna, because this is always a process and usually it involves lots of slacks back and forth between myself and Sam. And that's why we call them deeply flawed film spotting polls, because we never feel like we get it exactly right as if you could get it exactly right.

50:56But when you look at those five options, knowing that, you know, you don't want to have too many options, then it becomes just even more arbitrary than it already is. and you have other so people can vote with their heart if they want to go in a different direction. How do you feel about the five options we chose? Do you think, and I actually, I'll admit this, Sam doesn't know this. I snuck in Seth Rogen's married friend Pete and knocked up at the last minute. It was in the list of other options and I threw it in because I just thought it was too memorable and I thought it belonged in the list.

51:30Do you think any of those others you see or maybe any others that you're thinking of that aren't here belong in that list of five or did we do okay? I think you did pretty well. I think you got a good span of what he does really well, right? Like he is very good at being this sort of like supportive, romantic, co-lead characters. You have the clueless part of it. You have the very goofy part of Rudd, which he does so well. He's a master at playing just like a bozo who doesn't understand anything that's going on. But like a really like puppy-ish bozo. I think you covered that too. And I also really like that you got the perks of being a wallflower in there.

52:14I wouldn't have expected that as a choice. I like that. That's a swerve. Yeah, I think Sam hasn't seen it. So I think he was maybe inclined to leave it out. And I've seen it. And I do feel like it's a very beloved movie. And I actually think it has a chance at winning this or doing very well in it. Now, watch. Two weeks from now, it'll be in last place with 4%. But I think it will get some play. Mr. Anderson, can I ask you something? Yeah. Why do nice people choose the wrong people to date? Are we talking about anyone specific? we accept the love we think we deserve. Can we make them know that they deserve more?

53:05We can try. How are you going to vote in this one? I'm going to vote other and write in Baz Luhrmann. Romeo and Julian. But you know what? But it's hard because I love that role, but I don't even know if I would call it a supporting role. It's so small. and I think that your five choices that you guys landed on feel way more legitimately supporting than sort of like uh he's handsome and he has a few lines which is really what the Romeo and Juliet situation is so I would say of the options I probably would go with clueless clueless is so it's just so ingrained in me as like a you know millennial woman all that stuff so it would Definitely be Clueless.

53:57And then probably Anchorman after that, I think. Okay. I think I'm probably going Anchorman because that, yeah, I mean, I still quote Brian Fantana lines from that movie. So I feel like Anchorman is probably the one. I haven't seen Wet Hot American Summer recently enough to remember him as Makeout King Andy. Now, coming up pretty soon, as we'll mention here in a few moments, we're going to watch that with a bunch of Film Spotting listeners at Film Spotting Fest, too. I'm holding out for that. So maybe my vote will change here in a month. But for now, Anchorman is the choice. If I was just going on pure impact in a small amount of time, the one that slays me the most, it's John Lennon in Walk Hard.

54:45But that's one scene. Yeah. That's one scene, and that's not a supporting role. And you really, you can't vote for that, even though it in some ways might be the right answer. We're nothing but grains of sand. That was freaking transcendental, Paul McCartney. Don't you agree, John Lennon? Yes, Dewey Cox. With meditation, there's no limit to what we can imagine. You know what I do quote to your point of like, what do you quote all the time? I do quote his do less from Forgetting Sarah Marshall when he's like very bad at teaching. people how to surf. I do think that do less, no, do even less is very good.

55:25Let's see it pop up. Pop it up.

55:31That's not it at all. Do less. Get down. Try less. Do it again. Pop up. Nope. Too slow. Do less. Pop up. And something that only Rudd can really do, right? That like uniquely supportive but deadpan thing that he has engineered over time that he's so good at. You can vote in that poll and leave a comment at filmspotting.net. This is absolute madness, Ambassador. Why should you build such a thing? Madness. This is Sparta! Wait, you're hearing filmspotting madness? What's going on? Film Spotting Madness in June? Yes, sort of. That, of course, is our annual bracket-style movie elimination tournament.

56:19Usually runs February through April. This year, we did the best of the 1940s, and we did recently complete that. Our plan for next year, 2027, will be what we're calling, Roxanne, a super madness. We've gone through every decade, 2010, down to the 1940s. So what we've decided to do is take the elite eight, the eight best films from all those decades, mash them up into one 64 film bracket to compete against each other. But what we decided to do is, hey, we really need some representation of the 20s and 30s. And so we, the selection committee, which is myself and Sam, we have put together a short list of what we think are the 50 best films of the 20s and 30s.

57:12And we are going to have a special film spotting family only bracket. It's going to be ultimately a 32 film bracket. We'll have some play-ins. It will be exclusive only to the family. It's going to start in late June. so you'll have about a month to fit in any homework if you do have any blind spots and we know that a lot of listeners do sure i have a few that i have to watch myself and we'll then have the bracket and we'll have those eight films from the 20s and 30s that we can put into that final tournament for 2027 so if you're a family member just stay tuned to the weekly newsletter. If you're not on the Discord, it'd be great if you were on the Discord, but you'll get emails.

57:57You'll get the weekly newsletter. Here's the thing I do want to tell you. And even if you're not a family member, well, this is another good reason to join and be a family member. But if you're not a family member, even you can see what the movies are. If you're curious what movies, the 50, right, that are on our shortlist, just go to filmspottingmadness.com. And right there is a link to the letterboxed list that I accumulated, put all the films together there over on letterboxed. And you can see and you can then see that deeply flawed list and criticize my choices. Tell me what I should have included.

58:35Of course. I sent it. I sent it to Michael Phillips, our ultimate historian, and the man who, you know, our keeper of all things, 20s, 30s, and 40s. And he really only had five suggestions. And with all due respect to Michael, Roxanna, the five he suggested, I think he would even admit he's just saying you could add these. He wasn't saying they were misses or anything. And they were kind of off the beaten path. None of them were major films. They were just films that more idiosyncratic choices that would make the list a little bit more interesting. Right. They'd like to round out the list rather than like define the list.

59:17Exactly. Yeah. So we feel pretty good about it. And if you do want to learn more, filmspottingmadness.com. If you want to be a participant and you're not currently a family member, filmspottingfamily.com. It should be fun. So we wanted to share that with everyone. Now we also wanted to make sure we shared with you the news. We're only a month away now as we're taping this. It's almost exactly one month, Roxanna. We'd love to have you out here to Chicago sometime to participate in this. We'll see if we're up for Film Spotting Fest 3 next year. Sam is calling this in honor of The Mandalorian. Film Spotting Fest 2, Varda Strikes Back.

59:58Four films, two venues, one weekend. It is starting off with Varda's masterpiece, Cleo from 5 to 7. And we've got the great critic Carrie Rickey who wrote Varda's biography. She's going to be there to intro the movie, do a Q &A afterwards, sign copies of her book. Then Cresha with director Trey Edward Schultz is going to talk about that film with us and intro that. And then yes, Wet Hot American Summer. We're going to watch that for its 25th anniversary on Saturday night. Scott Tobias, the great critic from The Next Picture Show and The Reveal, he's going to talk about that with us because it's part of his new cult canon.

1:00:39Now, you may have noticed that when we announced this, we were promoting that Marguerite Moreau, the actress, one of the actresses in the movie, we were promoting that she was going to be there. And we haven't mentioned her lately. Well, that's because we always say these guests are subject to change. And something exciting for her came up with her schedule. And we weren't sure if she was going to make it. it does look like she's back on. Awesome. So that's great. But Scott's also going to be there. And then we close out the fest. How about this 35 millimeter print at the music box, the Royal Tenenbaums for its 25th anniversary.

1:01:16Michael Phillips will join us on stage to talk about that movie. So we're giving it a go. We had so much fun with the first film spotting fest that we were just crazy enough to try to do a second one, Roxanna. And that's what we're doing. Film spotting too fast, too furious. Can't be held back. We've been playing off that as well. Tickets are on sale now, June 27th and 28th in Chicago. Filmspottingfest.com. What if your soda actually did something for you? Introducing Sky Pop Protein Soda. Sky Pop Protein Soda has 10 grams of complete protein, zero sugar, and real delicious soda taste. Sky Pop Protein Soda.

1:01:56Reach for the sky. Get your Sky Pop Protein Soda now at Target, Walmart, or Kroger. Amazon Health AI presents Painful Thoughts. I, um, I can't stop scratching my downtown. Yeah, but I'm not itching to go downtown and tell a receptionist I'm here to talk about my downtown. Some things you'd rather type than say out loud. There's no question too embarrassing for Amazon Health AI. Chat your symptoms and get virtual care 24-7. Healthcare just got less painful.

1:02:32Hello, hello. This is Malcolm Glabal from Smart Talks with IBM. Today we're diving into a fascinating conversation with Stefano Pallard, head of fan development for Scuderia Ferrari HP. Your pronunciation is strongly American. It's more Scuderia Ferrari. I'm still working on rolling my R's. But what I was able to learn from Stefano was the importance of engaging the Tifosi, the Ferrari superfans in the digital age. Ferrari fans and superfans want to be part of something, want to belong to something. So they want to be part of a community and ultimately they want to be part of a winning team. You've got Ferrari, which has a long history, design history.

1:03:17And now you're interacting in a kind of digital space. I'm curious how you balance those two traditions. When it comes to fan engagement, it's really digital technology and digital channels are being able to create a deeper connection with our fans. To learn more about how Ferrari and IBM are using technology to build deeper connections with fans, visit ibm.com slash Ferrari. A lot of support through telehealth, but it feels overwhelming and rushed. Check out orderlymeds.com now. Orderlymeds.com was built to be different. Here, you connect with real doctors who take the time to understand your goals, review your eligibility, and guide you through a plan that's right for you.

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1:04:36Again, that's orderlymeds.com slash podcast. Individual results may vary. Not medical advice. Eligibility required. See site for details. You know the egregious stuff that's been happening at my stores. The boosters take my clothes. Because they're low-class urban bitches. Chrissy Smith knows we exist. That's a bit of I Love Boosters, the latest from director and writer Boots Riley. His previous film was 2018's Workplace slash Art World Satire, Sorry to Bother You. I Love Boosters is about, quote, a fearless crew of young women who turn shoplifting into a radical act of defiance. Unquote. It has quite an ensemble cast.

1:05:22Kiki Palmer, Naomi Aki, Taylor Page, Poppy Liu, Asa Gonzalez. And that's not counting Demi Moore, Lakeith Stanfield, Don Cheadle, Will Poulter. I didn't recognize this because I didn't recognize the voice until Sam put it in my notes and I had to look this up yeah Viggo Mortensen is also in Isle of Boosters that's his voice on what is he narrating something he's narrating a documentary that we keep coming back to or we hear a couple times in the film so I want to know what you think about Boots Riley's latest was it definitely worth the wait eight years to finally get this movie roxana well i i again have to be my like tv party pooper and say that in between these two films he was doing a uh limited series for prime well i hate to say for prime a limited series that was distributed by prime called i'm a virgo and that also was like a very um absurd social commentary political satire that had a lot of the same elements technical elements of most of his films in terms of like practical effects forced perspective animation sequences um direct to camera address all of that stuff and also like sorry to bother you ends in this political suggestion of a general strike that unites various industries being the only thing that will change our political landscape which makes sense boots riley is a communist he talks all the time about being a communist he loves to tell you that he's a communist and you know most of his art i would say all of his art is in service of that purpose you always know where one of his projects is going to end i think at this point because he's made very clear what the political aims of his filmmaking are and then what's different is you know as you just listed this ensemble who are the characters who realize by the end of their journey that like working class solidarity for workers all around the world is the only way forward so all that is to say i went into this movie like with that expectation and that expectation narratively was met i was like okay this is a boots riley thing he's doing his boots riley thing i will say in terms of the filmmaking before then i was just so engrossed and entertained I think that how this thing looks and moves is incredible.

1:08:13I love the color theory. I love these like special Panasonic lenses that he used to get these like extra wide shots that are really interesting. I think that he has a very sort of sly sense of humor that takes aim at all of the things you would expect him to take aim at, right? Like 30-second lunch breaks that workers have to, like, sprint to fulfill. That's a good bit. Yeah, there are a lot of, that's a good way to put it, there are a lot of good bits in here that, for me, help support where this eventually goes. Now, what I will say is I do not necessarily think all members of this acting ensemble are as strong as each other.

1:09:00And I think that it was a little bit of a choice to give some of his most technical dialogue about a special sci-fi device that becomes very important in the film. he gives a lot of that dialogue to the person who I think is the film's weakest actor. So I think there's like some bagginess in the middle as we work through like the sci-fi genre stuff that will then be very important in the back half of the film. So I've said a lot of things that are praising it. I really like it. I think it's my least favorite out of his three things that he's made. Because I think Sorry to Bother You was so bold and different and strange and I'm a Virgo because it's a miniseries I think has a lot more time to develop its internal world but I don't know man I still thought you know the whole time I was watching it I was like who who else could do this and create this type of thing um and be really uncompromising in what the politics are that are guiding the thing but I think that you might have a different opinion and I'm curious about it.

1:10:17It feels just based on sorry to bother you and what we know about him as an artist and his politics. It is uniquely his own. There's so much to like here, and I think you hit on a lot of it. And yes, I'm going to get to ultimately, I guess, what held me back, why I have reservations about this movie. And yet I think I liked so much of or so many of the things that you mentioned. And right from the beginning of this film, I was I was hooked just looking at there's this opening nightclub scene. And you talk about some of the the lenses and the way the the camera is used here and the way close ups are used.

1:11:00Kiki Palmer and Lakeith Stanfield are two of my favorite performers, period. And so when you when you put them together in a scene, it is it is combustible. and especially the way he's using them again the way he's shooting them i'm thinking is this going to be the best movie of the year i can't wait to to watch how this unfolds now we'll talk maybe a little bit more about lakeith stanfield a little bit later but it turns out he's not a major part right of this film so the the performers here overall though the ensemble is really good and i I don't want to say they're just good actors. They give good performances.

1:11:40There is an electricity to almost everybody in this cast. And I had to look them up afterwards because so many of them were people I've enjoyed in other movies, in other roles. And I maybe didn't know their names or I walked away from that film thinking, I need to remember who they are. You know, I maybe jotted them down. And then it turns out I didn't remember. But Naomi Ackie from Mickey 17 and Sorry Baby. Taylor Page. How good is Taylor Page from Zola? And she has a part in Ma Rainey. But also the Beverly Hills Cop Axel F movie is totally disposable. But she plays Axel's daughter and she jumps off the screen in that movie.

1:12:25And of course, Kiki Palmer's Kiki Palmer. So that ensemble really is so good. And you already mentioned one bit. There's some inspired humor as well. The costume design here. Shirley Carada is the costume designer. The production design. Christopher Glass. They have to be on point in this film. And they have to be working in tandem or they do work in tandem in such a striking way. And it's one of the ways, because they're so connected, it's one of the ways you know you're in a heightened universe right from the beginning. Because our world just isn't quite this intentionally colorful as it is here in this film.

1:13:09And it is so fun to look at then because of that. And I don't remember Sorry to Bother You that well. Mm-hmm. There's obviously a comedic absurdity to its premise. There's a surreality to it. That's part of its satire. And that is on display here pretty early as well. I mean, she's squatting in a chicken restaurant. Mm-hmm. And they shower. They have a makeshift shower where the counter used to be. And there's nothing really believable about the way they shoplift clothes. and it's it's hilarious that all these metro designers demie moore is the designer all of her shops they only sell monochromatic clothes every month it's very forever 21 it's very fast fashion i don't i don't know that i don't know that but it's just it's funny that you know everything in the store is yellow everything that was yellow or the next month it's green or the next month it's blue.

1:14:05There's this giant ball of bills, you know, and eviction notices and other burdens that chases Kiki Palmer's character Corvette, literally follows her around. We see popping up at different points, but that's not even surreal. That's just fantasy representations of her anxieties, right? Now, the best joke, I had forgotten about the sprint, the 30-second lunch. That's up there, But I think the best joke is every time we see the news, the interviews are with these archetypes. They're clearly played by actors who have been hired to espouse certain messages. And they're labeled on the lower third as things like scared black mom says, you know, that I thought that scared.

1:14:54That was brilliant. Scared black mom says more police in neighborhoods. and then it's like Jason Ritter's character who says that like the workers on strike at his job gave him trauma. Like they're all these, I think that's the smartest thing that the film does and I wrote an ending explainer for Vulture that talked about those characters and like Boots Riley's version of crisis actors are essentially these characters who work for a neoliberal think tank that is affiliated with Barack Obama. Yeah, there's like a lot in that recurring sort of gag that I think is very interesting and very provocative and maybe the most provocative thing about the movie.

1:15:45But yeah, there's a lot of humor built in. There are a lot of like gags and bits and we already referenced Looney Tunes, but there's like a Looney Tunes moment, which was done practically you know so there is a lot of that sort of like being alive in capitalism is ridiculous so all you have to do at a certain point is laugh which i think is handled very well but adam these are not your critiques no they're not but we're getting right we're getting to the word you said the word and even though there is that moment that is so explicitly a Looney Tunes cartoon moment, and it happens in this first kind of section, I would still describe this first chunk of the movie that I'm talking about as a heightened Bay Area universe that Corvette and this Velvet gang inhabit.

1:16:41It is slightly surreal, but heightened is still that word I would use. we still feel like we're grounded in a in a reality that we we understand day to day. And then we hit a certain moment involving Lakeith Stanfield. Oh, OK. And anyone who has seen the movie knows exactly the moment I'm referring to. And don't get me wrong. The the sheer audacity of it, the insanity of it. I it had me it had me howling in my seat. I mean, I was laughing out loud and I couldn't believe I kind of just genuinely couldn't believe what I was watching. And it is the moment. And I was watching it in in a local theater that is known for being very progressive, certainly very progressive in its politics.

1:17:30And you're not going to shock a lot of people who are sitting there in the audience. But it wasn't too long after that, that a couple of people, a couple older than me, very loudly got up and left the theater. So it's that kind of moment. It's going to be a little shocking for some audiences. And that marked a break from that heightened reality into what I would call cartoon reality. And with that comes more cartoon-like action, too. After that, there is just significantly more running and chasing and use of gadgets and vehicles and everything else. And that's fine if it increases the comedy and it increases the satire.

1:18:18It's more incisive as well. And for many, maybe it was, Roxanna. But for me, all that cartoonishness and zaniness did was lower the stakes until I felt like I was watching a cartoon where none of it mattered anymore. The first half, I was so invested. And the second half, I just, none of it mattered. That's so interesting because, yeah, I think I had the opposite reaction. Really? I will say I think that for me. So you said that you don't remember Sorry to Bother You super well. I don't. Do you remember the Equa Sapiens part of it? No. Not well enough. No. Okay. So like the last act of Sorry to Bother You was that, you know, Lakeith's character meets army hammer who is the ceo of this company that is using like the elite level telemarketers to sell like arms to foreign countries and to sell like slave labor and all of this stuff and lakeith learns that army hammer's next idea is to make human horse hybrids like centaurs equa sapiens who will then do further slave labor like in the factories or whatever and then lakeith's character is going on like television shows and stuff to try to make people pay attention he goes on the television show where you get like covered with like feces and beaten up and he does all of these cartoonish things to try to make people pay attention and nobody paid attention so i think that that cartoon aspect is part of what i was expecting because i think a lot of times when i think about boots's work there's this moment i swear i'm going to link these ideas there's this moment in road to perdition where daniel craig's character is laughing sarcastically at something and you know the kid asks him like what's why are you laughing and he says because it's also fucking hysterical and i think that that mentality of our world is so messed up and so illogical that the only way you can move through it is with cartoon logic that hit for me and so i accepted you know the zanier parts of it um i think that the teleportation device for me is interesting as a way to link together like these disaffected women in the bay area with the people in china working in the sweatshops who are actually creating the clothes that they steal.

1:21:06I liked that because I think it's maybe Boots's clearest distillation of like workers of the world need to unite. And it is grounded in the reality of the sandblasting denim technique has killed people. Like there have been situations all over the world, I think both in Turkey and in China where workers died. So I do, I like that sort of balance of we're going to do something super vibrantly and ludicrously and with claymation and stop motion and color theory and it is still going to be grounded in a coherent political message. So I really liked all that all of that is to say lakeith scene is wild and i can understand why it could be a turning point for you because it is something that i think is clearly an idea that boots had as a commentary on what are the things that distract you from like devoting yourself to political struggle and are those things like romantic relationships and sex and how do you fulfill different aspects of your life but it is so wild yeah i don't i i really want to know what listeners think about it I was cackling and I was having a really good time.

1:22:39But yeah, I'm not surprised that people walked out. I mean, the moment that ensues, what Kiki Palmer says in response to it is the perfect kicker to the moment, to your point, what you're saying. It's hard watching the film and having the response I did when you respect so much the movie's political concerns. And I can see the point. It's intent. But then ultimately feeling like, as I watched it, that the movie is working against itself in its execution. And I think something that was on my mind watching it too, as much as I enjoyed watching some of these performers, as I mentioned, and so many of their scenes, there are a lot of similarities for me between the relationship of Palmer and Ackie to Palmer and SZA and the characters.

1:23:31the concerns of the characters too in one of them days and that's the last thing i saw her in of course and so for for a movie with such loaded subject matter i i just walked out of the theater thinking why is why is i love boosters why does it feel half as well constructed in the end as half as one of them days why why is the way those characters are written why do they feel like they don't have the same depth as the characters in this. What is a goofy comedy? One of them days. And why do their lines, why do their their comedic lines, why do they not hit with the same punch? I mean, because those friend characters go through some of the same friend challenges, right?

1:24:14And come out in similar places, ultimately. And so what I struggled with was by the end, and this is me, this is where the mileage may vary. And listeners hearing this, Roxanna will go, yeah, this makes sense for Adam. This is what he does sometimes, is that I still need the world to hold together. I still need the rules to make some sense in order for it to hit me with the message. And the lack of clarity in the staging, especially over the last 20 minutes where all the rule, any rules whatsoever go out the window completely. That's where then what I feel like the movie at the end still wants a final visual to be.

1:24:59It builds up to it. It withholds the final visual and it wants it wants it to be this really powerful political moment that wants us as audiences to be floored by it, to be not only emotionally moved by it, but also politically swayed by it. And honestly, for me, I was neither because I didn't really understand what had happened or how or why. The visual itself wasn't as compelling as I thought it could have been. There was, I think, lack of clarity is the best way I can phrase it because I think it was just so cartoonish that it didn't have the same precision that the visuals in the first half did the wackier the second half got.

1:25:48That was my experience with it.

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1:28:22In fashion, humanity is our canvas. The velvet gang is reducing our margins. I've been bob and weave. Christy Smith stole my design. What? I found it to hold together narratively. I sort of tracked what was happening with this transporter device that we don't want to talk about too much because it gets very spoilery toward the end. I sort of tracked what was happening in that. But I see your point that, well, here's what I'll say. Again, I think all of Riley's projects, he like begins at the end. Right. Like we know. How do I get to that moment? Yeah, we know the final moment that he's always going to land on at this point.

1:29:12And then I think it's a little bit of like a backward process for how to get us there and how to explain political theory enough to get us there. I think for me, I've heard the character critique from a couple of other people. it's so funny that we're talking about this paired with mandalorian and grogu because that movie also has uh questionable character problems but i think why i accepted it more is because again i think that this movie is really drilling down to like the political ideology of in a society where you are valued most as like a worker and as someone who is judged or defined on their labor i think the film also sort of falls into that so that the velvet gang is defined by what do they do with the stuff that they steal right they're giving it back to the community so the why of why they're doing it becomes a little secondary to them doing it at all and so how they got to those places also becomes secondary because the film is more interested in okay all of us are in this oppressed place we don't need to differentiate about why these people are oppressed we all just know we're oppressed so what do you do next to get out of it like i think there's a level of the film because it's riley is taking certain things about how we live so for granted that the movie doesn't sort of like pull you into that it sort of just assumes that you would agree because why wouldn't you agree that capitalism is like evil and should be destroyed you know what i mean so i see your point like the characters don't have a ton of distinctness i think corvette is very distinct and i think sort of naomi aki and taylor pair taylor pages characters less so we haven't talked a lot about poppy lu but she is like the real star of the film for me like i think the chinese factory storyline was maybe what i attached to most and so i liked that part of it But I do concede the point that the characters are maybe not as three-dimensional as they could be because, again, I think he is building to this place of individuals don't matter.

1:31:50The collective matters. And we even get that with the film sort of saying like neoliberalism has used fashion as a way to convince people that like individualism matters and it doesn't. Like what you should be doing is setting aside these things that society tells you make you unique and actually realize that, you know, the power is in linking arms with each other, et cetera, et cetera. And to your point, if that final visual doesn't hit for you, then I get the entire movie sort of being like, I don't know about this. But I think, you know, for someone like me who is very willing to, you know, accept these politics, then it works.

1:32:38Well, but I do want to I do want to say I think there's a world where I could be moved by that. 100 percent. Yeah. And you're saying it's a failure of the film to not get you there. Yes. That's the only reaction I can have. I have to assume that. But it's hard to know what that what that other version of that film would would look like. I do want to ask you about the performer you haven't mentioned yet, but I assume you were talking about when you said that there was a cast member that you thought was a weak link. And it was someone who does get lots of mouthfuls of dialogue at the end. The person who does become the explainer.

1:33:20That is that is their role in the second half of the film. and they're a performer that I felt like I had not seen before, looked at the filmography, probably saw in Baby Driver, maybe saw in Godzilla vs. Kong. Those were the only two that I think I've seen. Asa Gonzalez is who I think you're referring to. So what didn't you appreciate about Gonzalez's performance? I think that the things that you sort of just listed as your criticisms largely are almost what I would specify as my issues with her performance and that I did not feel like it felt born of this world like there was something about how she plays this character as so sort of deadpan and so disaffected and so reliant on the vape as a prop it's very vape heavy acting yes i i didn't really get a sense that this is going to sound so mean i didn't really get a sense that there was a ton of understanding of the concept that she was explaining it felt very mannered and very rehearsed to me whereas I think everybody else in this ensemble as you just listed brings like a vibrancy and like a vivacity that benefits the script which can sometimes be very simplistic so I think the other actors are really doing a lot to bring like personality and charm and charisma Lakeith Stanfield I don't even want to describe what Lakeith is doing but it is something I'm not sure what the character is totally doing in this film but yes i still like i love looking at lakeith stanfield in this movie yeah lakeith is doing like a very roguish thing kiki is doing a very like up against the wall sort of maverick thing i'm not sure what gonzalez is doing and i think it's a it is not a good choice for the film to have her be the one person who is in charge of like explaining how the device works and basically explaining how this political ideology works and linking together all these big concepts there's something about it that is too mechanical for me and her delivery of the dialogue that it just does not feel what it should be full of which is like wonder and discovery and passion i think it lacks all of those things in a way that I thought was damaging to the overall messaging of the film.

1:36:07I could see that. And that performance alone is one that I'd like to go back and see the movie for, you know, watch the movie again, just to watch that performance again, because I have mixed feelings about it. I think a lot of what you're saying is right. I remember feeling, mechanical is the right word, feeling like a lot of the dialogue as she was saying it just felt a little too automated. Yeah. It was a little too robotic. Yeah. At the same time, maybe it's just because of the transformation that probably isn't really a transformation, but it's the way it seems within the context of the movie that her character makes.

1:36:43From we assume she's this vapid fashion clerk at the Metro designers, and then we realize that actually she's this activist. She's kind of this rebel activist. Yeah. So everything about her physically, the way she's dressed, her mannerisms, everything changes. And there is then, I don't even know what the right word is. I almost just want to say it's a horribly insufficient word, but there is a spunk to her. There is a vivacity to her that is in such sharp contrast to the earlier character that we meet that I was surprised by. And I still found her I still found her fun to watch as a character.

1:37:26But you're right. I found that I only assumed here's what I'll say. I assumed that that had to be a choice of Riley's. I'm sure. Yeah. Right. To to make it to make it what you were saying earlier about Riley taking this approach almost like, well, of course, you just know you just know that this is this is this is the way politics works. Right. Of course you feel this way about capitalism. That's sort of the way she says this dialogue. Yes. As if you just understand this, right? Yes. And so she just says it in that manner. And it felt to me like it almost made sense within the context of the movie.

1:38:06But also it does seem to be lacking something that the other performers bring. You guys seem out of breath. He must be coming for me break. Yeah, our lunch is 36. Yeah, and Grayson gets an hour. That must be illegal. Maybe. but who's going to force him to hold it to the law?

1:38:27Nobody, that's right. We're trying to get together to get longer breaks and a third more of our money. We've got to force this. We've got to force it. I think this sort of goes back to a little bit of your earlier point about whether the film is effective at persuasion. And I think that I'm a Virgo, which was his previous series, I'm a Virgo has a similar sort of structure where there is a character played by Carrie Young who I think is a I mean a fantastic superior actress she plays like the black mom on the news in the movie. And so in I'm a Virgo, she is a community activist who then has like a lengthy fourth wall breaking direct address where she traces like the history of capitalism, the history of like corporate quote unquote rights in this country.

1:39:20And it's like a beautiful persuasive sequence because she is delivering it so passionately. And I think that you really honed in on the fact that like Gonzalez is doing it in a very matter of fact way that I don't think will convince people who don't fully understand the like theoretical things she's talking about. And I just think, yeah, I think it must have been a Riley choice. And I just am not sure that it was the right one. I Love Boosters is currently out in limited release. I'm sure it's provoking a whole lot of different reactions out there in its audiences. I don't know if any of our listeners walked out like the couple a few seats down from me.

1:40:05But if you were one of those people who walked out, tell us what scene it was. Email us feedback at filmspotting.net. we would love to hear from you. That is our show. You can find me and the show over on Instagram, Facebook, Letterboxd, YouTube, Blue Sky. Now that I'm finally in the summer, yes, I know I keep promising it. I will be posting more at FilmSpotting. You can find Josh at Larson on Film. Where can we find you, Roxanna? Yes, you can find my stuff at Vulture. You can find me on Blue Sky. You can still find me on X and intermittently on Letterboxd. Very intermittently. Film Spotting is independently produced and listener supported.

1:40:50You can support us by joining the Film Spotting family at filmspottingfamily.com. You get to listen early and add free monthly bonus shows, plus other benefits for show t-shirts and other merch. Go to filmspotting.net slash shop. in limited release out this weekend. You can see John Carney's Power Ballad with Paul Rudd and Nick Jonas. We'll see how good of an actor Nick Jonas really is. That's expanding wide next week, and our review will be coming in a couple of weeks. Tuner is out. A gifted piano tuner learns that his special skill can also be applied to cracking safes. I did just see the trailer for this one right before I Love Boosters.

1:41:33It's the narrative debut from documentary director Daniel Rohr, who made Navalny and Once Were Brothers. Have you seen either of these films yet? I have not, but I'm really excited to see Tuner. That is on my must-see of the summer list. I feel like it seems like a very interesting, unexpected sort of heisty conceit that I'm into. In wide release, Nate Bargesi's Mr. Mom, that's called The Red Winner. Pressure is also out, set during the 72 hours before D-Day. Brendan Fraser plays General Dwight D. Eisenhower. And really the reason why I might actually go see this movie is Andrew Scott. Of course.

1:42:12Because Andrew Scott's in it. Of course. I don't care what character he plays. He happens to play UK Captain James Stagg. He's going to do for meteorology what Woodward and Bernstein did for journalism. I'm telling you, Roxanna. Maybe. We're going to have a whole new crop of weather people. Thanks to Andrew Scott. Okay. Not Paul Rudd, though. Not Paul Rudd. No. Okay. No, probably not. No, probably not. Back Rooms is out. Everyone's talking about Back Rooms. Director Kane Parsons expands his YouTube short to feature length. Renata Reinsva, Chiwetel Ejiofor, and Mark Duplass. Have you seen Back Rooms yet?

1:42:54I might not see Back Rooms. Okay. Because I am a very strong House of Leaves supporter. Have you read House of Leaves? I have not. Okay. House of Leaves is a novel that came out many years ago that has a very similar conceit where this family moves into a house where the dimensions are wrong and they start investigating it and exploring exactly why the house is so mysterious and strange. So I am sure the back rooms is great, but there's this very small part of me that's like, is this just ripping off House of Leaves? Okay. Yeah. You're taking a principled stance against backrooms. I am. I'm taking an unnecessary moral stance that nobody else will care about but me.

1:43:40Next week over here on Film Spotting, Monday, we are going to be dropping into the Film Spotting feed a new podcast. I'm very excited to share this with Film Spotting listeners. It is something that is 14 years in the making. I have the email when I sent it to Sam in 2012, saying, I have an idea for a podcast. And we're finally bringing it to life. If you've listened to a certain NPR podcast, the name and the host of it actually got mentioned about a week ago. So it's out there, but I'm still going to be secretive about it, Roxanna, because I just want to drop it in the feed Monday and see what people think of it.

1:44:24But I couldn't be more thrilled about the show and how this first episode came out. So there you go. New podcast dropping Monday. Look forward in the film spotting feed. Yeah. Awesome. Film spotting SVU, Tom Clancy's Jack Ryan, Ghost War. You can hear Jordan Hoffman and Matt Singer talk about that now on Prime Video. The next picture show has, this is a good pairing, right? The Mandalorian and Grogu, and they're talking about that in conjunction with the 1980 Japanese film Shogun Assassin. If you've seen The Mandalorian, you know why. It makes sense. Excellent pairing. And then, yeah, next Friday, Josh, yes, he is returning home.

1:45:08If they let him back in the country, he will return from Scotland. And right now we're planning to talk about back rooms if I can muster enough courage to go see that movie. And as long as I don't read House of Leaves. It'll take you a long time. So I think you're safe. We're planning to review it. It is a tome of a book. And what's fascinating about it is the way that it uses typeface. So the pages are laid out in a very unusual manner. And it'll have you like cross-referencing footnotes and reading unexpected parts of pages. Everyone should still see backrooms. It seems great. I just also would like people to read House of Leeds.

1:45:51Got it. Film Spotting is produced by Golden Joe Dassault and Sam Van Halgren. Without Sam and Golden Joe, the show wouldn't go. Our PA is Sophie Kempinar. And special thanks to everyone at WBEZ Chicago. More information is available at WBEZ.org. Roxanna, thank you so much. This is always so much fun to do with you. I know you plugged a few channels here and there. But anything else that you want to mention, anything coming up special that we should look out for? I don't think so. I have like a fairly large reported piece coming out about the television show adaptation of Interview with the Vampire, which I would suggest if anyone really enjoyed the movie, they should check out the show.

1:46:34It does some interesting adaptation things. But that is basically it. And it's such a blast to come on. Thank you again for having me on. Thank you. Okay, so look for you at Vulture. Just read your stuff. Yes. There you go. For Film Spotting, I'm Adam Kempinar. Thanks for listening. This conversation can serve no purpose anymore. Goodbye.

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