The Running Man Review, Nouvelle Vague

30:23We talked about just Cruz grabbing stardom by the throat and just insisting, I'm going to be a star. And it worked because he's Tom Cruise. I felt some of that insistence in Powell's other performances. And I feel it's at play here as well. This comes into the moments you were hinting at where he's required, Ben Richard is required, to videotape himself regularly to prove that he's alive, still participating. And those sequences, you can see Powell's inherent charm, his sense of humor, his cruisiness, but it's almost as if he understands this is the only element in this performance. I'm going to get to do what I really want to do.

31:12And so I'm going to amp it up to a hundred and it's out of sync with every other element of the character. So it's almost like when he turns those camera on to record himself, he becomes Glenn Cruz. And it's not in service of, I don't know what would be in service of this character as envisioned, but it certainly isn't. So we're getting here less to Powell's fault than the construction of the film, a multiple personality performance. Yes. Yeah. I think that's very well said. And the only thing I would maybe correct a little bit or clarify about Schwarzenegger, because I was thinking about this.

31:54Was he angry? Was the Ben Richards that I remember in the first film, was he really angry? And then my next thought was, was Schwarzenegger ever really capable in any of his roles of expressing anger? Like on some level, you're right. You're right. You're right in what you said to a point. I think I can define it in a second. But there's also that side of Schwarzenegger where I think there was some natural comedy to him. Like I don't we always took him seriously physically, but I also think we always regarded him a bit comedically. And I think there's a difference between or at least there's a difference in his Ben Richards where we we didn't see anger, but he was always aggressive.

32:38There's a difference between anger and aggression. And he always embodied aggression. Right. And that's what that character certainly needed and had in The Running Man. The four different scripts thing, I don't know anything about the history of this film, but that doesn't surprise me on any level to hear because of the mishmash that this film is and all the different directions. I'm not sure that's actually been the production process. It just feels like it. It does feel like it, especially I mentioned the lack of the lack of stakes. there's a point in the movie we'll just say where richards has a realization about the process of the game show that that allows that character then to start making some different decisions and unfortunately it lets the the character off the hook a little bit but it also lets the movie off the hook and everything kind of none of it sort of makes any sense in terms of the stakes of being chased and potentially being killed.

33:40And so, so then as a viewer, you can kind of tune out as far as caring about what, what happens really next in terms of the, the satire. And then I'm going to get to another way. The script I think doesn't work here or the, the different versions that might be at play, the satire element, Josh, I think for it, for me to really have potency. Another thing that this film misses is that that every man angle would have a lot more potency if any of the quote unquote real people we see in the film actually appeared to be real people like it treated them like real people. It gave them an actual name.

34:23Now it does. It does in terms of that one sidebar with the family we meet, the character played by Daniel Ezra. His name is Bradley in the movie. We get we get a little detour with that family. Other than that, every other character that's supposedly malleable first by the corporation, by the network, and then is coming around to the resistance. they feel just like insert generic hick hick version of american in a movie you know it doesn't feel like the movie actually has any regard for any of those people that that supposedly yeah the movie the movie wants wants to inspire well another problem with that whole plot line is he becomes a folk hero, but we have no idea how, because all we've been told is that the audience is manipulated, again, not only through bribing them to report, but also, and this had potential, right?

35:30We're also told that everyone on this show is brought in, encouraged to audition and be part of it as a chance to win some money. And their story is going to be told. And then what happens when they come out on stage? I think Domingo, is it Bobby T, right? Bobby T. Yeah. Suddenly, suddenly he presents them as quote thieves, fraudsters, and freeloaders. Right. And so that gets the audience against them because, well, again, our, our current environment, we're told that everyone who is not born here is a thief, a fraudster or a freeloader. Us versus them. Yep. Us versus them. So it's the same dynamic.

36:17Then all of a sudden, somehow there's this underground swelling movement in support of Ben Richards that has never been proven how that happened, except for the fact that the movie needed it to happen. And so that's to support your earlier point of how many things in this screenplay make sense or just they make movie sense. Yes. And a lot of times movie sense doesn't make sense. I think there's a falseness to it. And that's what I'm getting at too. Yes. That doesn't quite work. And near the end, when we're saying the movie goes off the highway, I use that phrase. If you've seen the film, you'll know why I say that.

36:55It introduces a new character who is played by Amelia Jones. Oh, that's rough. She's named Amelia in the movie. We do eventually Lee Pace is a character plays a character McCone throughout the whole film. We really don't know it's Lee Pace until later. It's not a spoiler because you can see it in the cast, but we don't really know it's him until late in the movie. And it feels almost like here Wright himself decided or someone in the screenplay writing process said, we got to make sure we give these really good actors something to do. We got to make sure we got to make sure all of a sudden there's there's some kind of major scene or scenes involving them.

37:38It doesn't really matter whether or not they fit narratively or it all works in terms of what we're trying to accomplish here. But does it give them something significant to do? Almost as if you're showcasing them. That's how it felt to me watching it. Yeah. I mean, it is sort of a reveal. I don't think anyone could get mad at us for saying that. But they build it up to be more of a reveal than it actually is. Can I say as a counter that I do think the Apostle videos you referenced are quite good. This is a character that Ben encounters, and he's a resistance figure who disguises himself in a getup to make these YouTube-style explainer videos about the Running Man game show that essentially deconstruct all the audience manipulation.

38:26And I thought that was also timely and appropriate in a way, and some clever filmmaking going on there when we watch the style of the videos themselves that the Apostle is making. But to your point, Adam, you know, this that all happens well before that fatal final third. Also, two weeks in a row with conspiracy theory videos. We won't say anything more about it. Don't want to spoil anything about begonia if you haven't seen it. But there's an element. That's true. The Running Man is currently out in wide release. If you've seen it and agree or disagree with our thoughts, you can email us. I'd love to hear genuinely a Running Man apostle.

39:09Are there any out there for this film? Email us feedback at filmspotting.net. We may share some of that feedback on a future show. Movies you might be able to check out for free right now as a Regal Unlimited member. Marty Supreme, number nine on Alison Wilmore's list, an 11 through 20 pick for me. Incredible performance from Timothee Chalamet that is playing right now at Regal. And we've talked a little bit about some of these picks. We've highlighted some of these repertory movies, the limited engagements, Josh, that Regal has been showing at some of their theaters. And I'm looking at regmovies.com and they have a limited engagement right now for its, what is it?

39:57It's, it's 40th anniversary. It's 30th. Okay. Only 30 years. Shouldn't age it like that. 30th anniversary of a movie. I somehow, I can't believe I'm admitting this. I have somehow never seen this film, despite the fact that it stars two incredible actresses, including one who I've always claimed to be a huge, huge fan of. And I may have to rectify this now by seeing it on the big screen, getting a chance to see it on the big screen at a regal cinema. Sense and sensibility. Ang Lee that's the way to do it great director too Kate Winslet the actress I'm referring to the great Emma Thompson never seen Sense and Sensibility and if you're like me maybe you're embarrassed about it like me you can check that out now at Regal Cinemas and maybe see it for free with that Regal Unlimited membership Regal Unlimited is the all you can watch movie subscription pass that pays for itself in just two visits and Regal is offering film spotting listeners endless movies for less.

41:01All you have to do is sign up using the code film spot 25. That's film spot 25. And you'll get 10 % off a three month subscription. It is the only truly limitless movie subscription pass. And you don't just save money on tickets. You also save on snacks. You get 10 % off all non-alcoholic concessions. You get to see any standard 2d movie anytime, no blockout dates or restrictions, we encourage you to sign up now in the Regal app or just click the link in this show description and use that code FILMSPOT25 to receive your discount.

41:43Adam, I mentioned that Film Spotting Family bonus episode we did on Tom Cruise, a Tom Cruise draft with a Film Spotting Family member. It's just one of the fun things we get to do with Film spotting family members. And another thing is to take a chance to thank them for supporting the show, which we want to do right now and thank family plus member, Chris Lane. Chris is in Brooklyn, New York. And the letterbox handle, I looked Chris up at him because I wanted to follow and there are two C lanes on letterbox. I think this Chris Lane is capital C, capital L, A and E, if I'm understanding that correctly.

42:24Okay. So thank you, Chris, for listening. Chris says for years. Also writes that when I see something I really like, I know I'm going to get a comprehensive review of it. That's us. Now a random film or filmmaker Chris loves, Jennifer Kent. Chris, I love that. Kent, of course, made 2014's The Babadook, did not get a review on the show at the time, did make my top 10 list of 2014, has also made some top five lists, top five horror debuts, did that in 2017, and then top five moms going through it in 2024. I think that was you and Mariah E. Gates, Adam, but I do love that pick. Yeah, I think it made Mariah's list, but if she didn't put it on her list, it would have made my list.

43:10Love it. Yeah. Kent also made The Nightingale, and I think we did review that one, Adam, We did. On episode 740. That is correct. Chris has a favorite book about movies or movie making, and it's a good one. I remember reading it when it came out. Got a lot of pub, easy writers, raging bulls. Chris says, whether all the stories are true, I find that new Hollywood 70s era to be fascinating. Indeed, it is. We thank Chris for being a family member. It seems that my voice is getting worse as I talk, doesn't it, Josh? Uh-oh. Thank you, Chris, for all your years of support in addition to keeping us doing what we're doing.

43:45family membership does come with perks. You get to listen early and ad free. You get Sam's weekly newsletter. You get exclusive opportunities like being part of the film spotting family discord. And Josh mentioned the bonus show, the Tom Cruise draft, which was a lot of fun with the film spotting listener, but also a lot of fun. We just taped our November bonus show. Ask us anything. What a blast. Just chatting, just chatting it up with Josh. Well, I was chatting it up with Josh and Sam. and we were just answering questions, just responding to great questions from family members. We joked about this at the end, but we could do it every month.

44:22It was really good stuff. Yeah, enjoyed that. Always love the Ask Us Anything. You never know what you're going to get and kind of puts us on alert, Adam, and makes us think about things maybe we wouldn't otherwise. So that was a great bonus show. That will be, again, the bonus show in November for family members. If you are not part of the Film Spotting family and thinking you might want to take the leap and join, you can find out everything you need to know at filmspottingfamily.com. Now, maybe for some reason, you're not in a position to be able to do that and you'd still like to support the show.

44:57There are some easy ways that you can do so. And one of them are just reviews. Take a minute to give us a rating or review. You can do this on Apple Podcasts. If you listen there, you can do this on Spotify as well. and you don't have to have a fully formed opinion of all 20 years of the show. It doesn't have to be comprehensive. Yeah. Like I finally thought what I want to say about film spotting after 20 years. I mean, if you want to do that, please go ahead. But if this is your first show you've ever listened to and you thought, you know what? I kind of enjoyed that. Feel free to drop in a review.

45:34Every review that we get really does help us reach new listeners.

45:56Joining me now is Michael Phillips. I put out the bat signal. There's no cowl, but you are well coiffed. Thank you, Michael, for joining us. You know, I take an honorary shower. you know uh the month we're gonna record you know so wonderful josh and i just reviewed richard linklater's blue moon a few weeks ago you know i thought i was sounding better here as i spoke to you no it's it's still there linklater is back with nouvelle vague set in paris 1959 the french new wave is in bloom but jean-luc gadard all of 29 at the time he still hasn't made a film linklater's film made in french is about the landmark movie gadard would go on to make 1960s Breathless.

46:41Plain Godard is French photographer Guillaume Marbeck making his film acting debut. Zoe Deutsch and newcomer Aubrey Dillon are Breathless stars Gene Seberg and John Paul Belmundo. Seberg mentions in the film that she's from Iowa a couple times, Marshalltown, Iowa. I used to drive about 40 minutes north from my hometown as a kid. My mom would take us to the shopping mall because Marshalltown had a shopping mall, Michael. I think I got my driver's license when I was 16 in Marshalltown. Wow. How about that? Connections. So if Otto Preminger had, if you had auditioned for Preminger, you could have played Joan of Art.

47:19Sure. Sure. Exactly. In a different time. Yeah. Different generation. It is interesting, Michael. Linklater's two films this year are very different, but they share their inciting action. They involve watching a peer take an artistic leap, follow me here, without them and earn raves in Blue Moon, Ethan Hawke's Lawrence Hart watches as former musical partner Richard Rogers has the biggest hit of his career, Oklahoma! with Oscar Hammerstein. In Nouvelle Vague, we see Godard in the audience at the 1959 Cannes Film Festival supporting his Cahiers du Cinéma compatriot Francois Truffaut at the triumphant premiere of The 400 Blows.

48:00And unlike Hart, Godard truly is supportive. But as he laments to Suzanne Schiffman at a party early on in the film face facts i'm the last one in calle du cinema to direct rivette yes romare yes chabrol two times yes truffo yes romare even wrote a novel truffo is a year younger than me but godard no michael and i love the best part of that is that he referred to himself in the third person, but Godard, no. Michael, did Linklater make a great film about the making of a great film? And I would also love to hear if you have any real personal connection to Breathless. Was it a formative film for you at all?

48:45I was later to it. I don't think I saw it until mid-20s, let's say, partly because there was a coworker I really liked at the weekly in Minneapolis, my first full-time job, who had a picture of Seaberg and Belmondo on the Champs-de-Lay, were the Seaberg characters hawking the New York Herald Tribune. And that was reason enough for me to want to finally catch up with Breathless. And at the Walker Arts Center in Minneapolis, they had a revival screening. That said, I had never seen anything like it. And I still haven't seen anything like it. And we'll talk about more reasons in a bit. But, you know, the words I wrote down watching Nouvelle Vague about even just 20 minutes in, and then I kind of checked them again about an hour later, were charming as hell.

49:36And this movie is charming as hell. And is it great? It's charming as hell. It's, you know, I think it's not great in the way Breathless is great. And I think Breathless's greatness is mischaracterized constantly. as serious, important, revolutionary. Hmm. Yeah. Uh, um, but it's, it is the work as Richard Brody, you know, who's, who's the king of Godard scholarship and, and I think criticism, frankly, in the U S uh, the New Yorker critic said it is the work of an adolescent and a 29 year old adolescent and everything that implies it's brazen. It's, you know, it's a miracle he pulled it off. And again, reasons in a minute.

50:26But I do find that that's a beautiful way to put the blue moon connection with Breathless, actually, just that it's exactly the same kind of jumping off point. Something about this must compel Linklater. And he's had this idea of cooking for more than a decade. He offered Zoe Deutsch, the part of Gene Seinberg, a decade ago. Really? And, you know, it takes a while to get these things going. But every decision, I think, essentially was right at the beginning. Shoot it in French. Mimic the feeling, the locations of the film without getting into the territory that is much more elusive and would be kind of, I think, almost fatal to try to replicate, which is shoot a like a Godard film.

51:12Like Godard would shoot his own film or something. So, yeah, charming as hell. Is that a good start? I'm with you. I think that's a great description of it. Yeah, my relationship to Breathless is probably like a lot of people. It wasn't about impressing a girl, though I think that is appropriate for a lot of people. I'm sure you're not alone in that, Michael. For me, it was film school, right? It was being a film studies student, taking intro to film analysis, and you have to first learn about the classical Hollywood system. You have to learn about continuity editing. And then eventually, you have to learn about discontinuity.

51:48discontinuity. You have to learn about how to break all those rules and what other film is going to teach you how to break all those rules than Breathless. It's kind of the go-to film. And you see why when you watch Nouvelle Vague, you hear him, you hear Godard here as the director explaining his philosophy and why he wants to break all those rules and how he's going to go about it. Then I remember when I was actually an MFA student, when I was trying to make films and I was in Chicago as a film student, I remember hearing stories about how Godard, and this is the lore, right, that film students, young filmmakers talk to each other about.

52:32You would hear stories about how Godard would work with Raoul Cotard on movies like Breathless, where they didn't have any budget. Of course, they don't have dollies. They can't lay down tracks, but they want to mimic tracking shots. So what do they do? And of course you see this in the movie, there's one scene where they're inside and what do they do to pull off a tracking shot? They put Cotard in a wheelchair and Godard pushes them. So on our second project where we were actually shooting on video at this point, but it was just me and, and one of my fellow classmates as the DP and we're on location and one of my friends apartments and we're shooting this project.

53:15And I said, I'm going to get, I'm going to get it a little wacky with this. You know, I'm going to try to be Godard meets Scorsese. And I can't explain why I have no idea why my two friends had a wheelchair in their apartment, but they did. And so of course I pulled off the closest to elaborate tracking shot. I could get Michael with me pushing, pushing my friend, James, holding the camera along in the wheelchair. And, you know, so watching that on the screen, the thing you had heard about all those years that I was trying to mimic, actually seeing it there on the screen, of course, that's part of the fun for me, watching a movie like Nouvelle Vogue.

53:53So, you know, whether or not this and Blue Moon too are great, and I lean that way, I don't know. Yes, charming as hell. I think they're both pretty charming. I know that watching them did give me as much pleasure as any movies this year, Because I think what Linklater pulls off, he channels this French New Wave, the French New Wave's restless energy, revealing how Godard's authenticity and his artistic uncertainty spark, which I didn't expect really, spark a collision of cinema's past, present, and future. I was wondering, besides his love for Godard in cinema, what was going to be the link later connection to this material?

54:37And it didn't fully click for me until the end. And I've seen interviews with him over the years where he said, of course, I love this French New Wave stuff. Breathless was an influence. You don't have to hear that to assume it. Most filmmakers of his generation probably were influenced by Godard and this film. but at the end of this movie he walks into the room after all the shooting's done and there's the two editors there Lila and Celine I think and he walks into the room and and you could kind of see the look on their face when he says this is like oh great I can't wait for this you know I can't wait for what the director has to say about you know they're looking at the footage and it's going to be a a fun project because he has all these big ideas but he comes into the room with his two editors and he says, hope you are ready because I love editing.

55:24It's where we hold the past, the present and the future in our hands. And I think, you know, that's such a, I don't know what the right word is. That's such a link letarian view of filmmaking, right? And editing specifically, but it's true. I had never really thought of it that way, but that celluloid holds images of the past that you're manipulating in the present in service of a future unknown vision. And Godard there could be Jesse or Celine from Before Sunrise or any number of characters from Slacker or Waking Life and on down the line. Or the entire cast of Boyhood. You're right, exactly.

55:58You're right. You know, that concept, though, of time is at the core of this movie, because it's at the core of the experiment of the French New Wave. What was Cahiers du Cinema all about? It was rejecting tasteful French cinema, the cinema that was rooted in a literary tradition, these grand adaptation. They were rejecting, as they called it, the cinema du papa. And that's all captured in the first few minutes of the movie when Godard tells Georges de Beauregard, who went on to produce the movie. They have a friendship and he produces Breathless, but he tells them his movie is shit. Those are his words.

56:33And he's talking about how, you know, I'll let you adapt. Why haven't you finished adapting this work I gave you? And it's Like, because it's an adaptation, he doesn't want to do that. And it's all the microcosm is when, as they're talking, a very nicely dressed, very stuffy, older French couple walks up and they praise Bobo for the movie he just made. Civilized. Civilized. Civilized French. Your film is a wonder. And what do they say about it? The landscapes are spectacular. And, you know, Godard just looks away and faces the bar. That's the exact audience that Godard completely wants to alienate.

57:12And so these filmmakers, they weren't just in the present. They were working in a present that was so intertwined with the past. And they were determined to break with it with this hope of creating a new future type of cinema. So it just feels so perfect for it to be Linklater material. It is. And that spirit, of course, is completely adolescent. I mean, it is the adolescent impulse to reject, you know, what you've been raised around and the whole context of your life up to that point. But to jump ahead, just like Godard likes to edit, to jump ahead to kind of that key scene you're talking about where the editing changes the entire personality of the final result.

57:55And that, I mean, I think Breathless was a film really made in that room, in the editing room. I mean, it was shot very quickly as, you know, Linklater, you know, respect. I mean, it's actually fairly on point the whole way. This is not a film full of like composite characters and a lot of nonsense. It's actually pretty on the record, you know, research material. There's a ton of research about the exact, you know, the precise making of the film, the conditions, all of it. And Nivelle Vague, Linklater's film, has a great blueprint for that. And I think the dialogue you quote where you get that kind of aphorism or philosophical insight or intellectual bluff half the time, you know, coming out of Godard's mouth.

58:43I mean, that's part of the charm and occasionally a little bit of part of the rhetorical excess in the script of Nouvelle Vogue. that everything coming out of Godard's mouth, not underlined with a yellow highlighter, but just like everything is another aphorism that mostly comes from, largely, let's say, comes out of the historical record. He said all this stuff in different interviews and, you know, musings over the years. And it's like, well, let's just, you know, we'll just imagine that this is how, you know, he was verbally an incredibly nimble BS artist, you know, frankly, you know. And also he somehow found a way to put a lot of these philosophical precepts that he was always arguing for in the Cahiers du Cinema work with all his fellow critics turned to record.

59:35I mean, that's the great thing about Cahiers du Cinema. It turned into the French National Film School, sort of in retrospect. I mean, the film had a two and a half hour cut when they ended. Producer says, true enough, give me an hour and a half. It's got to be an hour and a half. And if there's one thing that I kind of wish Linklater had spent maybe another five minutes on, it's how that film was utterly transformed in the room in that. And this was the real revelation when I realized this, when I started reading up on it after seeing it a couple of times, where one of Godard's filmmaking champions, Jean-Pierre Melville, shows up in Breathless playing Jean-Pierre Melville.

1:00:19and in life, in real life, Melville, you know, gave advice after Godard asked for it, but how to, how to cut it down. And this is the quote from Melville, not in the film, but just in actual life, right? He says, I told him to cut everything. They didn't keep the action moving and to remove all unnecessary scenes, mine included. He did not listen to me. And instead of cutting whole scenes, right? As was the practice then, this is still Melville talking. He had the brilliant idea of cutting more or less at random within scenes. The result was excellent, end quote. And that's the whole thing, right?

1:00:55I mean, Godard and the editor just did, you know, did this amazing internal cutting within shots sometimes that just, that destroyed the continuity visually about who's like the eye lines and, you know, like what's happening in the scene. But it gave the film this crazy, uh, unstable, uh, energy. And, and that's what to me is eternally new about the film. And it's, it's astounding. It's also. So Breathless is a very sad film, and this is what other people say. I mean, it's a wonderful kind of essay on all the movies in Godard's head at that point in his life. The whole film is dedicated to monogrammed pictures, which was a poverty room studio back in the 30s, 40s and 50s in Hollywood.

1:01:42I mean, they were famous for things like the Bowery Boys series, Bamba, the Jungle Boy, these series like that. And a lot of kind of grubby little crime pictures, some of them pretty good. But, you know, those are all his influences. And half of those influences and half of the directors that Godard really revered, Sam Fuller, you know, Bresson, all kinds of things, ended up in Breathless, sort of in this sort of like bent and adapted form. That's the spirit of the film. It's also very sad because it's kind of a nihilistic little crime picture, just like the best of film noir. and yet because of Belmondo and Seberg having this unlikely chemistry the film's romantic impulse which is definitely there is what really what sold it and also it had a brilliant marketing campaign which I think Linklater was very smart to kind of heighten the fact that there was always a photographer on set that they were you know selling you know there was a publicity man constantly kind of Yeah, yeah, I love it.

1:02:51All that's in the film. And the fact that Linklater got that all in, again, with Eye of My Quibbles, certainly I don't think the actor playing Belmondo is up to Zoe Deutsch's Seaburg at all. I think he's a little, he just seems a little less of a kind of like a charismatic presence and sort of a real presence as Belmondo was. But you can't win them all, right? And I just think what it really has is that spirit of this sort of like serene chaos just tumbling forward. And you see that in the Linklater's films all the time. You see it a little bit in Blue Moon. Oh, that's like overtly a much sadder, more kind of like the outsider looking in, you know, reflection.

1:03:39Because the whole thing is based on Ethan Hawke's Lorenz Hartz, you know, kind of being left out of this whole phase of musical theater. And like, you know, he's basically done almost done with Richard Rogers as a partner. Very different sphere. This is more like a collaborative collective kind of just like, wouldn't this have been fun to be there? And thanks to this film, we're there. We get to be. Yeah, it's a really good point. I want to go back to Melville and what you were saying there, because going back to my point about time and Linklater, I love how these sort of giants of French and European cinema haunt the production a bit.

1:04:18Like they revere Rossellini and we see him speaking at the Cahiers offices and he's friends with Jean-Pierre Melville and we do see the scene in the movie that they shoot and he goes to his set and they have a little nod to Truffaut's day for night in the movie, don't they, with Melville? because he does something about the car. He gives an instruction to someone on the set. But also, randomly, during the making of Breathless, Robert Brisson is shooting Pickpocket in a metro station just around the corner from where they're shooting Breathless. And they, these filmmakers, don't represent cinema du papa, but they do represent the old guard.

1:04:59And as if Godard doesn't have enough to deal with, Michael, and his cast and crew aren't already questioning him and his approach enough. They walk onto a Robert Brisson set. It's just this reminder of what proper filmmaking is, what a real artist is, what a real director is. He's having to contend with that. While he's trying in the present to make this future type of filmmaking, it's like, well, here's the past, and guess what? In the present, it still works pretty well. You know, Brisson's making a masterpiece himself in this moment as he makes Pickpocket. So I think that's interesting. You also get to see like where Gene Seenberg is teaching Belmondo and, you know, basically just like because there was a lot of downtime on that set that was driving her crazy.

1:05:48I mean, truly crazy. And because it was many days, as we see in the film, were two hours in the morning of shooting and then Godard saying, I'm done or just showing up. and he just wanted to play pinball or, you know, figure out what he wanted. Because that thing really was written as it was shot, meaning written the morning of or the night before. And then the film does not, that's what is astoundingly fresh, I think, and unexpected for every person of any age who sees that film for the first time today. Because you just think, part of you will think, really this little scruffy little brash little sort of you know sardonic weird cine essay is is was groundbreaking and then you sort of if you fall into it you think yeah i get it i get why and because it really was just a rebuke to everything but it also had its own thing you know i mean i'd lie i'd see it again just for the score but uh for sure it's a beautiful jazz score But that scene where Seabricks doing the dance sequence, you know, just kind of teaching, that's just like Band of Outsiders a little later, you know, where you see, you know, they take the break to do the Madison, which is, of course, one of Godard's most famous and loved scene because it's so easy to like, you know.

1:07:05And it makes a lot of the heavier lifting in some of Godard's films. He knew that he needed to have, you know, rhythmic change-ups, I think, to sustain his experiments in cinema. And what he does with sound in some of his films, that's what caught my, I mean, this is a mixed metaphor, that's what caught my eye first because it caught my ear first. You know, just the fact that sound comes and goes just like the continuity in the pictures. And you just have to learn the new language he's working on. And then at the end of his career, of course, he makes a film called Goodbye to Language. So, you know, it's fascinating.

1:07:46And I love that Linklater, he doesn't, you know, his spirit is not like Godard's. He's not really that kind of nihilistic sensibility at heart. Is Godard a nihilistic sensibility? but he's close in this one. He's much more romantic. And Richard Brody, who's like a big, you know, like the good art guy, you know, also really loves Linklater. He says the film is, you know, it's an amiable kind of like what if, here's how I would like to believe it all felt on the set, backed by a lot of meticulous research and, you know, very good casting in general. And I don't know. To me, it really is one of Linklater's, probably one of his top five.

1:08:32So that's a good place to be. I love so many of his films. But your editing comment is interesting as well when I think about the strengths of this movie. Because you're right, it would add a lot of time to this film. But the movie does underplay the extent to which the editing surely shaped how great this movie is and the influence of this film. We literally go from the scene I described where he walks in, makes a grand pronouncement about how he wants to edit the film. It basically alludes to how they're going to edit the film. And then the next scene is like they're screening it and it's a gigantic success.

1:09:11Right. And that's that's kind of it. But but when I think about what works about this film and the making of. If it got if it and here again, it is a movie. It's about the making of. So, of course, that's why they did it this way. But I think for me, Michael, the strength of the movie is that what are the stakes of this movie going to be right to whatever extent there can be stakes when we know they're going to complete the movie breathless. And look, every movie, you have to suspend some disbelief when when you have a reasonable sense of what the outcome is. But what are the stakes going to be when we know they're going to finish the film?

1:09:48We know Godard is going to go on to be Godard. We know the movie is going to be this influential work that it is. And if they had spent a lot of time in that editing room, that then becomes really just about the filmmaking. It becomes about decisions about film. Right. And what I think Linklater does really well is even when they're on the set, even when they are making the movie, he he balances it out just enough in making it about the people and making it about the characters and making about the interpersonal dynamics. the relationships between Seberg and Belmundo, between Seberg and Godard, between Godard and Bobo, just those character little conflicts, the questioning of Godard as a director, the inner conflict that he doesn't let out from behind those sunglasses very much.

1:10:44But we do see within him about whether or not, you know, is this really going to work? That uncertainty that does come through, that doubt, I think, is enough to carry us through to see, okay, it's not so much about whether or not the film's going to end up being good, but along the way, what damage sort of might be done, right, in these relationships. relationships. I think that's interesting enough to see. He does keep it enough about the people. And I think that Marbeck here as Godard, and I've of course seen some interviews with Godard and I know what, if you showed me a picture of him, I would say that that's Jean-Luc Godard.

1:11:21But I think he, I don't otherwise have a bunch of preconceived notions about what I expect him to be on screen. I think he captures, you talked about him in terms of that adolescence. I think he captures that insouciance really well. Like you, you partly want to sit before him and just listen to him spout wisdom, those aphorisms, even if he's mostly quoting other geniuses the whole time. And then you, the other part of the time you want to strangle him. And I feel like that's, you know, that he's, he's almost antagonizing you. And that, that is what you have to get right about Godard here. And, and he does.

1:12:10You know, what he really wants to protect, and this is what Linklater, I think, responds to, is just the freedom to just find his way as a filmmaker on this tiny budget, even with the producer on set, breathing down his neck, questioning every single use of every hour, of every, you know, there's a great scene where, uh, where, for the climactic car crash that leads to the, you know, the downfall of the Belmondo character and the heartless gesture of love that Seabrook fought the whole way at the very end of the film. Uh, you know, it involves like a stunt. So the, okay, we had to hire a stuntman.

1:12:53So, you know, you see the stunt, you know, bouncing off a guy has to bounce off a spring a springboard platform over the hood and then it's pretending to be having been hit by the car and it's like okay it looks pretty impressive and then gadar says yeah it's cliched i don't want to and then you hear bobo kind of like we just you know this guy's expensive we got to use them and he says no no i said we won't do it and when he's that's what that's what really struck me the first time i saw breathless i remember was was shots like that and scenes like that where all you see is a sort of half-hearted acknowledgement of a car crash you know Godard just not interested in trying to replicate a straightforward Hollywood recreation of of that kind of thing uh or it's just not not I mean he's already his head's already elsewhere and and that's what's amazing about his film and what I think is very fond and sincere and and kind of beautiful about Linklater's is that he so appreciates that kind of artistic impulse of just following it, following it, see where it goes.

1:14:00And the one thing Linklater really, really, I think, relates to in that is like just taking the time to find it. I mean, nobody would make boyhood the way Linklater made it if he didn't believe in, you know, your issue of time, right, of taking it and finding it. And how do you do that in 20 days on a 20-day filming schedule? This is what we find out. And I love it that Linklater feels a little bit drawn to almost everybody on screen. You know, I mean, I mean, like we'll find a very amusing kind of way of setting up just all the new players where they simply have this moment, two seconds on camera still where they're identified staring right at the camera.

1:14:38And that's dozens of them. It's a comical number of introductions. And we have a lot of these people don't have many lines even. But it's somehow, it's an easy conceit to fall into, very simple. And it's just kind of a mark of Linklater's sort of like generous impulse, which is not like Adar's if he had one. but um but he certainly had uh as it's pointed out in in novelle vogue you know he certainly had the impulse to keep every close-up of seaberg and belmondo because those two faces are why that film uh along with every sort of technical and and visual and rhythmic impulse uh in the filmmaking itself why that film still is worth making a movie about the making of it.

1:15:27Yeah, in terms of Linklater's impulses here, look, it's a loving portrait of Godard and the French New Wave and the making of this film. But I think what I'm sort of trying to express about how he makes it and gives it some, imbues it with some stakes is that he doesn't overly glorify Godard here or romanticize it too much. Like I'm thinking about in terms of a biopic and isn't this a sort of biopic? There are biopics that take this approach where they just document a certain portion of a great artist's life. And the problem with so many of them for me is that the people who are the focus of these biopics and whenever they're making that great piece of art that defines them is it always seems as if the filmmaker who's making the film about them, they know the momentousness of the work that they're creating.

1:16:22And they make it seem too significant in the moment. They make it seem almost like the artist in the moment understands the magnitude of what they're making. And here, I think Linklater understands the tenuousness of this entire project from start to finish. And that's a really, you know, that's a really smart approach. And another smart approach, and you alluded to this earlier, Michael, is he doesn't do a thing that I think many other filmmakers might have done, which is he doesn't try to make Nouvelle Vague look exactly like Breathless. He doesn't try to get too cutesy trying to mimic Godard's style in showing us how Godard helped establish the visual language of the French New Wave.

1:17:04We're watching Breathless, but it doesn't feel exactly like we're watching it. Yet it still does have some of the unconventionality and the immediacy of it. The black and white, of course, you mentioned it. I love the approach of the introducing of all the key players. And you're right, several dozen with those static shots, breaking the fourth wall, titling all of them. The camera does have a slight verite feel to it, but it also at times has very composed shots. It's not going for exactly what Godard was doing back in 1959. Yeah, Breathless was like verite. That really felt like they were shooting a documentary, natural light mostly, I think entirely actually, or existing light, let's say.

1:17:44If they're shooting in an apartment, you mess around with the apartment lights and all that. But yeah, tell me this. Do you think that the film gets behind Jean-Luc Godard's eyes or persona at all? I mean, I do feel, I guess that's what I was trying to get at when I said, I latched on to just enough doubt in him that it carried me through the film. That behind those glasses, I felt like I understood his ambition. I understood his fear. I understood that he was, I think he was self-aware enough, at least this character seemed self-aware enough that he could fail. And that, that, that combination of, of bravado, well, subtle bravado, right?

1:18:34Because this, as a Frenchman here, he never, never really raises his voice very often, right? Right. He's subtle, but he has an arrogance to him and a confidence to him. But I think it always there's always still this sense that like I quoted that part of the beginning. He he is really shook by the fact that he's, quote unquote, as old as he is and hasn't accomplished anything yet. And he doesn't know for sure that this is going to work. I don't know if that's exactly what you were getting at. Yeah. That is something I didn't expect from this characterization. I didn't get the same. I'm not trying to get it like a more obvious underlying of the idea, but I didn't quite get the same feeling from that very scene where he's sort of acknowledging it.

1:19:22I mean, he's looking at Truffaut having come back from the Cannes premiere of The 400 Blows and like envy. He's seething with envy quietly. I think, well, can I do it? Where's my movie? And then he, you know, he uses this screenplay, this treatment, this outline that Truffaut provides him for Breathless and then basically using none of it, but like, except the bare premise. I never thought I'd mention Oppenheimer in this conversation, but in movies as, let's say, as disparate as Nouvellog and Oppenheimer, you have a film about a real-life person who also had a persona cultivated. Yes, and he cultivates it.

1:20:05Yeah, and what little I know, read, about Oppenheimer and Godard is that these were, in fact, somewhat odder, stranger, wormier in a way, and more itchier personalities than we see. They're a little bit, you know, movies tend to, the camera tends to turn it all into like a charismatic kind of cool. and I think what I've read and what I've sensed about again, nothing in common between these two but I would say it's a limitation on both films but to this point on Novell Vague it's a little something that it would have been his greatest challenge, Linklater's to find a little more of that in this film like who is this guy really?

1:20:59I think he sees in Truffaut a guy who's much a much easier kind of man in the world. You know, I mean, Truffaut's, you know, getting out of one marriage, he's already got, you know, he's seeing somebody on the side. Goddard's relationships tend to be a little more torturous, I think, and just simply kind of awkward and uncertain and, you know, nobody could really track what was going on in his life. But it might be the thing that's missing, even in a film that's basically only meant to be a certain weight and has kind of a comic, uh, kind of a lovely comic air. I wouldn't really, I wouldn't, I wouldn't want it any other way with a Linklater film.

1:21:40Cause that's what he is, is a filmmaker. He just finds a warmer, more kind of human conventionally humane sort of approach to everything, but it does make everybody, everybody matter a little bit, at least a little bit. And sometimes a lot in this, in this film. And I mean, I am eager to see it a second time. So I don't want to, my, my limitations, you know, as I always say with a lot of things like this, I have reservations about my reservations. No, I think it's a really fascinating point. One I want to consider when I do revisit the film, but I was just thinking about because of something else, I was thinking about biopics and great artists and musicians just last night.

1:22:20And let's go ahead and use the word genius, which does apply to Oppenheimer and probably does apply as an artist i think we can say to gadar as well and part of the problem with biopics is that they always try to explain the genius they always try to get under the hood and find some way to to let us understand what what really makes them tick and i i don't know that the pro the thing is we can't right and so to what extent to what extent can we ever understand someone as as slippery. I know. Good word. Good word. Uh, that's it. I mean, I don't think you would deny it to Godar. Um, I love it. The, the, the one, the one piece of film I have in my life, uh, uh, that was shooting on the camera, uh, at whatever can festival it was where, uh, goodbye to language, I believe was, um, premiered and he was supposed to do a press conference and there was a tremendous disinterest among all the press.

1:23:22I'm like, you're kidding. Well, we were all there, like hundreds, you know, waiting for an hour and a half. And then this footage, you know, if I can find it, you know, it's just kind of like me talking to Jim Hoberman or whatever. You know, it's like, is he going to come? And all this. And then, you know, then you hear this, and then the word goes up, Monsieur Godard will not be attending today. You know, it's like, you knew it. You knew he would. Come on. And yes, Varda found out the same thing, that he just simply would not show when she was making her film Faces Places. Of course. You're right.

1:23:57That's part of the plot of that film, right? That he doesn't show up? The world is destined to be flummoxed and surprised and essentially disappointed by the man. But maybe not the films. Certainly not the films. Yeah, that's it. Well, this was a fun conversation as always, Michael. Thank you so much for jumping in last minute and allowing us to have this dialogue about Nouvelle Vogue. I hope people do seek it out on Netflix, which is where it is currently playing. Charming as hell. Can we agree on that? I hope we were charming as heck. I was just going for charming as all get out myself. But yeah, thanks for having me on.

1:24:43together. This episode is brought to you by Peloton. Break through the busiest time of year with the brand new Peloton Cross Training Tread Plus, powered by Peloton IQ. With real-time guidance and endless ways to move, you can personalize your workouts and train with confidence, helping you reach your goals in less time. Let yourself run, lift, sculpt, push, and go. Explore the new Peloton Cross Training Tread Plus at OnePeloton.com.

1:25:14Elphaba Throb, I know you're out here. Just come in before the monkeys spot you.

1:25:22Josh, you're back from the Riverside Purgatory. You look great. Good to see you. Yes. They treat you well there. Yeah, good. Next week on the show, Wicked for Good. Yes, we do plan to talk about the Wicked sequel. Are the people of Scotland excited for the continuing saga of Elphaba and Glinda and the Flying Monkeys. What's your sense? I mean, the theaters of Scotland are, it is playing everywhere. So yeah, and I'm having been a fan of the first installment, I'm looking forward to this one myself. Okay. Well, what are we going to do if your Netflix isn't working properly and we can't talk about Train Dreams?

1:26:04Who am I going to get to fill in to talk about that film? I'm excited to talk about that one too. I saw it as the opening night film of the Refocus Film Festival in Iowa City at the Englert Theater. Great. Will Patton does the narration and was a longtime friend of the writer of the novella the movie was based on. Dennis Johnson, who was a student and a professor at the writer's workshop in Iowa City. Dennis Johnson's wife was there, had a Q &A afterwards. It was lovely. I think that was October 12th. So we're over a month since that viewing. I will need to watch it again. Joel Edgerton stars as a logger in early 20th century America.

1:26:46Director Clint Bentley is the one who made this film. He wrote Sing Sing, a movie we both liked quite a bit last year. Greg Quidar directed that. Here, Clint Bentley is the director and it is coming to Netflix. We hope it's coming to your Netflix. I mean, this stopped getting me more excited about it. I've only heard great things and And yeah, the Netflix situation is real. Of course, this year, they seem to have four or five titles coming out in the last month and a half of the year that I'm excited for. So I do hope, I expect I'll be able to get my hands on Train Dreams, at least for sure in time for next week's show.

1:27:25Okay. We will also announce it's that time of year. Every Thanksgiving week, we announce the Golden Brick shortlist. So this is not the list of finalists, not the films we will be voting on, but it is the list of titles that will be in contention for the final nominees. And you can see how that list stands currently if you go to filmspotting.net slash brick. So Josh and I need to do some final viewing. We had a film spotting advisory board call last week and got so many great suggestions. I have a lot of viewing to do, Josh, to get some final additions onto that list. And I'm excited about that.

1:28:07We have some good titles there, but I know that there are many others out there that we both need to see. Yeah, I took a look at that list as well. And at least two, possibly three titles were among those. I have my own list going of before our voting deadlines for the Chicago Film Critics Association. I want to see. And there was definitely some crossover between what the Film Spotting Advisory Board members suggested for the Golden Brick and what I've wanted to see yet this year. So look forward to digging into those. We both have plugs, upcoming events that we want to promote where Film Spotting listeners can both be in attendance with us.

1:28:47Yours, well, mine's going to be really exciting, but yours will probably be more traditional fun. Why don't you promote yours first? All right. We're going back to London. The film spotting meetup I did in London a number of years ago was such fun. Just had to do it again. Of course, it's just down the road now for me. So we're doing this in December, December 11. That's a Thursday night. It's going to be at 7 PM at the cafe at cinema two and three at the Barbican. So this is the Barbican center there, right in London. Already have about nine folks signed up, so a good group. More are always welcome.

1:29:25If you do want to come on December 11 and join us, we will put in the show notes a link to the RSVP form just to give me a heads up of how many people might show up. Can't wait to see you all there. And keep in mind, I don't know if this will cause just a stampede or not, but at least the first drink is on the film spotting credit card. You're better off, Adam, based on my experience of meetups saying only the first drink. I have heard about the last London meetup and how that went. I might be using the film spotting credit card for bail money. Well, that's the case, yes. But London had nothing on Seattle in terms of the drink spot.

1:30:11So, so yeah, it's been my practice. I would say since Seattle to say first round is on the show. Yes, we, we did have to institute that rule because of you. Congratulations. Yeah. Have we paid off? Have we paid off Seattle yet? I think, I think we officially have. Yeah. It's like my student loans took a little while, but we got it. We got it done. You also have a book to promote. You don't need to take out a student loan to get your book. Oh gosh. No, it'll never be cheaper. Yeah. I'm going to keep mentioning this through the end of November because my publisher for fear not, this is my Christian appreciation of horror movies.

1:30:47They have a deal going on. So 50 % off the book and free shipping. You can get both of that through November 30. And I'll just mention now the code C-O-N-F ship, but there are more details to get the free shipping as well. I'll share those in the show notes, but yeah, fear not as cheap as you're ever going to find it through November 30. Okay. My event, if you are in the Chicago area or can make a little trip there Tuesday, this is the last time I can promote it. Tuesday, November 25th, as part of the Chicago department of cultural affairs celebration of 50 years of Siskel and Ebert. It is such a thrill to have been asked the show to have been asked to be part of this.

1:31:35we are going to screen, and I say we because here I had to go to Michael Phillips again, Josh. You're in Scotland. Michael Phillips and I are going to watch John Sayles' Lone Star. I picked that as part of this celebration because of Siskel and Ebert urging me to see that film. I've always associated it with that show. Lone Star is one of the most ambitious movies I've seen this year. In fact, it's one of the best movies I've seen this year, period. John Sayles has made a lot of good movies in the past two decades. For example, just recently, The Secret of Ron Inish. But this is his best. I think it's a terrific piece of work, Roger.

1:32:14And John Sayles needs to be praised. And I want to devote my time to praising him as a writer. I don't know how John Sayles came up with this idea. We're going to be watching it with an audience. Last time I checked, RSVPs, it's free. And the RSVPs, it was very high. I think there's a very good chance we could sell out the Claudia Cassidy Theater. And this plug hopefully will put us over the top into that sellout range. But as of right now, there are tickets available. Again, it's free. You can RSVP at the Cultural Affairs site. It is first come, first seated. And as Josh said with his event, we will put a link in the notes for this show.

1:32:56You can also just go to filmspotting.net slash events. We should put yours over there as well. Josh, we can add it to the page at filmspotting.net slash events. Is there any concern we're working Michael too hard? There is no concern of that. He's ready, able-bodied. He's ready. And you know what? I'm so ready to not be out-fund by you. I'm going to say that if you come to this event and if you're a film spotting listener, there's at least a good chance that afterward we'll buy you a beer. Wow. Oh, gosh. Now what? There's like 250 seats. Uh-huh. Yeah. And you're going to guarantee. Yeah. Yeah.

1:33:46Only the people that hear this. I know what's going to happen. You're going to tell them two drinks on the show and mine. Right. I'm going to be limited to one. Yeah. Only if you come up to me and use the code Barbican, will I buy you a drink? Okay. All right. We'll have to use the code word. The real listeners are. That's it. To continue the celebrations. Let's celebrate with our sister podcast. The next picture show looking at cinema's present via its past episode. 500 is out right now. I saw it just pop up in my feed, Adam. This is a special one-off review of the show's namesake, the last picture show.

1:34:24So they've been doing this. I didn't realize it until I saw it, Adam, when it came in my feed and read the show notes, the show description, 10 years. How is that possible that it's been 10 years? Yeah. And the math does check out, right? 500 episodes because they, they've basically been doing 50 episodes, right? Over, over 10 years. Doesn't, doesn't that math they've been doing, they've been doing it that, that long. It's, it's really crazy, uh, that they've been able to, to turn out that they started, there was a different rotation as they started with the number of shows, but yeah, here we are 10 years later.

1:35:01I would not have guessed it though, Josh, either. It feels like it was maybe five years ago that that show began. And yet, and, and, you know, I'll say this too, when that show began, when, and I touched, touched a little bit on this last week, when it began as just an idea that was being kicked around and they fortunately really bought into it in the wake of the dissolve shutting down. I, I didn't know if it would only be like a two year or three year thing. And I, I honestly would have been okay with that. I, I didn't, I didn't know if this would have that kind of longevity. Remember Matt and Allison did, how many years did they do film spotting SVU?

1:35:39I'm sure there are some listeners who know the answer to that. I don't have it off the top of my head. It was 160 episodes. So obviously it was at least a few years, but at some point they had to go on and do other things, but their lives, I kind of had a feeling the next picture show would, would end up doing that as well. But here we are 10 years later and obviously they enjoyed doing the show. The audience enjoys that they're doing the show and has built up a routine around it. So let's hope for 10 more. Yeah. So congrats to Scott, Tasha, Genevieve, and Keith. If for some reason you have not checked out The Next Picture Show yet, new episodes drop every Tuesday.

1:36:16You can find them wherever you get your podcasts. All right. If Adam's voice holds out, we're going to try to do Massacre Theater. Maybe it'll help. I don't know. This is where Adam and I perform a scene and you get a chance to win a film spotting prize. Last time we massacred this scene. Did I do something wrong? No. Then why did you just go cold on me? I don't know what you mean. What did you see? I didn't see anything. You're lying. No, I'm not. Yes, you are. I know because I feel things very deeply. Look, I got to get back to work, all right? I'll see you later. When? What? When will I see you?

1:37:10I don't know, Pearl. It's just an expression. You're not going to take me to Europe, are you? Tell me the truth. What did I do wrong? Nothing. Calm down. No! Why are you leaving me if I didn't do anything wrong? I don't understand. That's how you like me! I do like you. I just... Tell me the truth! Why are you leaving me? What did you say? Why did you change? You're scaring me, Pearl. That's David Cornswet and Mia Goth in 2022's Pearl, written by Ty West and Mia Goth and directed by West. That massacre was part of our Guillermo del Toro's Frankenstein show a couple of weeks back. The episode also featured reviews of Hedda, Christy, and Peter, who ours day.

1:37:48There's always a tie-in. So why that scene from Pearl? Before we jump in, Adam, I'm thinking, could this be the source of your vocal challenges? Was it your performance? I was going to say, thank God we aren't doing this scene this week. I never could have gotten, I could have gotten to the levels that I needed to, to pull off that performance. And, you know, often there's multiple tie-ins and I think the listeners got all of them, including as usual, some that we didn't fully anticipate. Here is Jeremy Laffery in Iowa City. Go Hawks. Indeed. The most obvious connection to the episode is that Mia Goth stars in both Frankenstein and Pearl with the pseudonym Ruby that you used in your massacre.

1:38:33Doubling is both a clever gemstone name swap and is a reference to the very, very red costuming for Frankenstein's mother, Claire. A fun bonus is that Goth plays double roles in both Frankenstein and Wes X. Yes. A less obvious connection slash spoiler. We're fine. Shortly after the massacred segment of this scene, Pearl kills the projectionist, played by David Cornswett. The selection of this scene must have been strongly motivated by producer Sam's hatred of James Gunn's Superman. What a catharsis it must have been to get some cinematic justice against a man that helped to, quote, steal, dismember, and torture his most beloved childhood superhero.

1:39:15I joke, but for the record, I share Sam's sensibility that James Gunn just isn't for me. Thanks as always for the great work and kudos to Adam for turning in his best massacre theater performance yet. Well, it's not a very high bar. Oh, it's top five. It's top five for you. I got to say. I'll take it. And I love that. I love that the both of us really disliked James Gunn's Superman, but it's Sam. Sam came in from the top rope on Letterboxd after the show and was like, listen, they went easy on this. Yeah, they're wrong. It's even worse. It's even worse. Right. Here's Mike Bell from Dallas, Texas.

1:39:54The scene is from Pearl, and the obvious tie-in is the fabulous Mia Goth, who was robbed of an Oscar nomination and a win for her performance in the film. Parallels between the Pearl and Frankenstein include not only Mia Goth's casting, but also the presence of, one, a controlling and cruel parent, Pearl's mom in Pearl, Victor's father in Frankenstein, and two, a sick parent, Pearl's dad in Pearl, Victor's mom, temporarily, I guess, in Frankenstein. Also, Mia Goth plays two roles in Frankenstein and plays two roles in the X franchise. Yeah, you got them. And again, some that we were definitely not thinking of, Mike.

1:40:30Here's Rachel Madden in Chicago. I'm a big fan of the pod, and this is my first time submitting feedback for Massacre Theater or for Massacre Theater. Had to send in a note for this one because it's one of my favorite movies released in the past few years, Pearl. I love the entire X trilogy, and the biggest reason why is Mia Goth's performances in each film. Her work in Pearl is mesmerizing. I'll never forget the first time I saw her incredible monologue and that final shot of her unhinged smile at the end. Love that this got a shout out on Massacre Theater. And may I say Adam was absolutely carrying this one.

1:41:02Great voice work. The connection is obvious since Mia Goth just starred in Frankenstein, the main subject of this week's episode. Both Pearl and Del Toro's Frankenstein do have interesting themes around parenthood and a monstrous creation turning on its creator, but also still holding love for them. Is that a reach? Let me know. Again, love the show and love this episode. The Frankenstein discussion really added to my interpretation and I agreed with both Josh and Adam, even though they didn't agree with each other. I mean, what more can you ask for? Thanks for all the work you do. Hoping to attend a film spotting event in Chicago soon.

1:41:35Hey, Rachel, maybe I'll see you at Lone Star. Yeah. Three beers on Adam for you, Rachel. There you go. lastly here's melissa kochekel from englewood colorado melissa i've had a chance to hang out with her at a couple of ebert interruptus meetups as well only paid for one beer sorry melissa she says i was listening to the show secretly while working as i always do when massacre theater started normally i can stifle my laughter and no one is the wiser but when adam started doing a woman's voice with a southern twang. I knew my cover was blown. My only solace was immediately clocking that he was giving Mia Goth a run for her money as Pearl when he shouted, I feel like I need to leave this to you, Adam.

1:42:20I can't do it, though. You know I can't. I can't even come close. Okay, well, we'll just have to go back and listen to that episode. Melissa says, please keep us posted on when we can start leaving reviews on Letterboxd for Massacre Theater I'm sure they'll get right on that. What a great idea. I think we know a couple of people at Leatherbox Stadium. Yeah, let's talk to Mitchell and get on that. Yeah, I both love and feel terrible about the fact that Melissa has to listen to film spotting clandestinely at work. It's true. Are we banned? Yeah, how do they have her chained up at her desk? What's going on?

1:43:03Yeah, maybe they just ban podcasts. Who knows? Okay. We had a pretty brimming film spotting hat. I guess the performance was good enough. So Josh, reach in and pick out this week's winner. Our winner is Nathan McKinney from Kansas City, Missouri. All right. Nathan, congratulations. Email feedback at filmspotting.net and we will set you up with your very own film spotting t-shirt, tote, or trial to the film spotting family.

1:43:45We move on to this week's edition of Massacre Theatre, and we are going to give Josh an opportunity to shine. because there is a, there is a performer. There's a performance this week, I should say in this scene that, that certainly could rival, or I think even far exceed anything I was doing with Pearl last week. Is that too much pressure, Josh? I mean, yeah, you set me up to fail, but I was just trying to find with your voice vocal condition, one of these parts that would be more manageable. But the truth is there's just a lot of shouting. that's the case right i i do think i i think i've got the one that's a little bit more monotone and that's what i need so i appreciate you looking out for me but i also i think we're giving you the chance to be the funny voice guy and and you need it you need it this week it's your turn adam this movie is very serious there's nothing funny about it that's a great hint that is a a great hint for our audience to have in their mind as they listen to this very, very serious scene.

1:44:58And we need to get into very serious mode. Okay. You started off. I'm going to give you the action and action. You set us up. It's all bullshit. All of it. The cabinet minister, the whole business. You got us in here to do your dirty work. Look, we just stopped a major invasion. And in three days, they'd have been across the border with this stuff. Why us? Because nobody else could have pulled it off. You're pissed about the cover story. I knew I couldn't have got you in here without it. So what story did you hand to Hopper? Look, we've been looking for this place for months. My men were in that chopper when it got hit.

1:45:38Hopper's orders were to go in and get my men, and he disappeared. He didn't disappear. He was skid alive. And my orders were to get somebody who would crack these bastards. So you cooked up a story and dropped the six of us in a meat grinder. What happened to you, Apollo? You used to be someone I could trust. I woke up. Why don't you? End scene. End scene. You so threw me. I tried to do your line. Apologies to this actor. I did not mean to apply. He was a Nazi. I don't know what was happening. I mean, it just got a little out of control. After last week's performance, you made me crack. You made me crack.

1:46:25What was the line? He didn't disappear. He didn't disappear, Josh. You didn't even need to go to that next level with he was skinned alive. You had me at he didn't disappear. That was your best line delivery. And then you just took it up a notch with he was skinned alive. I'm glad it worked for you. I broke character in this very serious scene. Yeah. You are a professional. I committed the cardinal sin of acting. I know. It rarely happens with you. Ah, jeez. I feel awful. I feel really terrible about it. Okay. If you know what film we just massacred, email the movie's title and your name and location to feedback at filmspotting.net.

1:47:04The deadline is Monday, November 31st, and we will select the winner randomly from all the correct entries and announce it in a couple of weeks. Mercifully, we are at the end of the show. Yeah, take a little rest there, Adam, while I let listeners know that they can find you and the show on social media. You're on Instagram, Facebook, Letterboxd, YouTube as FilmSpotting. I'm also at those places as Larson on Film. We are independently produced and listener supported. You can support the show by joining the film spotting family at film spotting family.com. That way you can listen early. You can also listen ad free.

1:47:46Plus you'll get a weekly newsletter, monthly bonus episodes and access to the entire show archive for show t-shirts and other merch. You could go to film spotting.net slash shop in that archive. you can find, in addition to a ton of Richard Linklater stuff, of course, Josh, we have reviews of five Edgar Wright films from 2007's Hot Fuzz to 2021's Last Night in Soho. And somewhere in that archive, producer Sam missed this in our notes, but I'm pretty sure it was Hot Fuzz where I interviewed Edgar. I think I interviewed. This is how long ago it was. I interviewed Edgar Wright and Simon Pegg and Nick Frost.

1:48:31Wow. All together. Okay. That had to be fun. So that's in the archive somewhere as well. Out streaming or VOD this weekend is Train Dreams with Joel Edgerton, Felicity Jones, Clifton Collins Jr. and Carrie Condon. It's on Netflix everywhere except Josh's Flat. In limited release, Noah Baumbach's Jay Kelly with George Clooney and Adam Sandler. that's coming to Netflix on December 5th. Here we go. See what I'm saying? Maybe Josh will get it. We'll see. Rebuilding with Man of the Hour, Josh O 'Connor. I am very curious. I got a note. I got a note, Josh, that this was available. This isn't a Netflix one though, I think, but we do have a link to rebuilding.

1:49:15Screen of Link. All right. Yes, and I am very eager to see it because Josh O 'Connor is playing a cowboy. Weren't you just saying something about Josh O 'Connor and Cumberbatch and Campion, like Power the Dog. Weren't you just saying you were trying to pair Josh O 'Connor with Campion? I think that was a conversation we had. So maybe this is as close as I'm going to get. You're manifesting Josh O 'Connor as a cowboy. So you can see it in rebuilding. Outwide, Rental Family with Brendan Fraser is an American actor who takes on some unusual work in Tokyo. We have a feeling most people are going to see Wicked for Good.

1:49:51We plan to see that. We hope we'll see both of us train dreams and we'll get up to some other stuff on next week's episode. Film Spotting is produced by Golden Joe Dessau and Sam Van Halgren. Without Sam and Golden Joe, this show wouldn't go. Our production assistant is Sophie Kempinar. Special thanks to everyone at WBEZ Chicago. More information is available at WBEZ.org. For Film Spotting, I'm Josh Larson. And I'm Adam Kempinar. Thanks for listening. This conversation can serve no purpose anymore. Goodbye.

1:50:50monthly bonus shows, our weekly newsletter, and for the first time all in one place, the entire FilmSpotting archive going back to 2005. That's at filmspottingfamily.com.