Top 5 Films of 2025 (So Far), The Apartment at 65

14:33Adam Kempenaar:Okay. Start us off. What film are you going with first as one of your five favorite films of the year so far?

14:39Josh Larsen:I'm going to start with that title that hasn't come up on the show at all. And it's also the title that once I sat down and wrote about it extensively, did jump up to my number one slot of the year so far. It is Universal Language. This is the second feature film from rising Canadian director Matthew Rankin. I did not see his debut, the 20th century. So we'll have to make time for that at some point. But Universal Language basically imagines an alternate Canada where the Persian language is commonplace. So alongside English, alongside French, basically we follow a collection of Persian speaking characters through various areas of Winnipeg.

15:19Josh Larsen:And interestingly, Winnipeg is also dotted with signage that is in Persian too. Even Tim Hortons. Exactly. Exactly. And right now, particularly worth noting, Persian primarily spoken in Iran. So some timeliness there. Now, just to give you an idea of who we're following, there's a pair of school-age sisters who are attempting to retrieve paper money that's been stuck in the ice. There's a tour guide who's leading this disgruntled group across the frozen landscape. And there's this disillusioned bureaucrat, played by Rankin actually, who's abruptly left his job in Quebec and has come to Winnipeg to visit his mother.

15:57Josh Larsen:These are lightly comic vignettes. I think you could describe them. They're very, the comedy is very dry, uh, inspired by the winter air that you see here. I would say Rankin, at least based on universal language is following the footsteps of, um, the Swedish filmmaker, Roy Anderson, who films we have talked about on the show, uh, an American independent, like Jim Jarmusch a little bit. Sure. I also in the compositions and, and the, this idea of like a snow globe we're in Wes Anderson came to mind. And then of course you have to name check guy Madden, right. who not only shares the Winnipeg background, but I think also I haven't seen a ton of Madden, but I think from what I have seen, this inclination to experiment with what a cinematic narrative can actually be.

16:43Josh Larsen:So I'm going to leave it there because this is number one, pretty much guarantees a slot on my top 10 at the end of the year when I hope to talk about what makes universal language so special some are. Yeah.

16:57Adam Kempenaar:This was among the bits of homework that I did and didn't make the cut for me, but is in my top 10. So an honorable mention. And those were all my touchstones as well. Definitely thought about Roy Anderson, who was a significant part of a marathon that we did a few years back. Jarmusch, yes, Guy Madden with Winnipeg. One of the recurring jokes in the film is every time Winnipeg is mentioned, they keep suggesting that it's in Alberta, even though he keeps saying, no, it's Manitoba. And that's never really resolved. And you're right. I even did think about Wes Anderson in a couple of specific instances with shots or just or just lines, even just moments of humor that felt Andersonian one S not two S's.

17:42Adam Kempenaar:Right. So I was thinking about all of those filmmakers, but it certainly feels like Rankin is doing his own thing. And even though I get why you call them vignettes, because especially early on, that's exactly what it feels like. It feels like they are very much separate. And I think that one of the strengths of this film, and I don't think this is giving anything away because you certainly feel this or recognize the connection start to take hold pretty early on. you start to see that there is a connection, that there is connective tissue that is holding all of these stories together. And I think that's where it starts to really create some poignancy.

18:24Adam Kempenaar:So I'm with you on recommending Universal Language, a movie maybe available VOD across different platforms. I saw it on Canopy, I believe. Okay, great. Yeah, the library online streaming service. So perfect. So the first one I'm going to mention is a movie we have given a full review to. And quite recently, I suppose I can say it's my number five choice. I had four that for sure were going to make my list and a lot of options contending for the fifth slot. I ultimately went, believe it or not, with Danny Boyles 28 years later. And this affords me an opportunity for a quick correction. the film spotting family discord this came up there a couple of users responded to my point that the men in this village they leave the island it seems only to kill zombies and for no other practical reason or at least the the practical reason isn't the primary reason and joe nielsen in the forum said correct me if i'm misremembering but don't they cut to a bunch of log trees at one point and the father even says something like this is why we come out here and And Mac Johnson replied, yep, I think that's right.

19:32Adam Kempenaar:They have excursions to the mainland for resources like timber and need skilled hunters as protection. And I do remember a line at one point. I remember that line about hunters, needing hunters. So I thank Joe and Mac for that. They do need to venture out. This journey, though, and what Spike is ultimately being trained for, certainly remains all about killing. And that's what they're celebrating upon his return. And for this show, this top five show, I looked at David Ehrlich's B plus IndieWire review. And curiously, Josh, he commented like we did, of course, on the iPhone visual aesthetic, the lo-fi kind of bullet time zombie kill approach that Boyle took.

20:20Adam Kempenaar:And he responded to it the complete opposite way that we did. He suggested that Boyle actually ends up kind of fetishizing the zombie kill shots. It emphasizes the coolness, Ehrlich says, the coolness of each arrow to the neck. at the same time, the story begins to suggest that the infected might not be quite as mindless as they seem. We saw it differently. But then he says this, what the approach sacrifices and scares soon begins to make up for in that other weirder kind of tension indeed and with more earnest grace than any films have tried to humanize zombies before, echoing a point I raise and we discussed during our conversation.

21:00Adam Kempenaar:28 years later is increasingly preoccupied with the idea that The difference between us and them is only a matter of perspective. Honestly, I cringed at the movie's first indications that it was going to explore how the infected have evolved. So boring, so far removed from the primitivism of the original. But Garland's script iterates on that concept in such radical and unexpected ways that I couldn't help but surrender to its potential. That's a great way to put it. I, too, especially on further, deeper contemplation of the film, I surrendered. I surrendered to the potential ramifications, Josh, that it raises.

21:35Adam Kempenaar:I surrendered to the potential I see for the rest of the series. And I'm waving the white flag so hard at Surrender that I am proclaiming it one of my films of the year. Not available VOD or streaming yet, probably a couple months away still. It's one that is still available in theaters 28 years later.

21:54Josh Larsen:Did not like it quite as much as you did, so didn't crack my top five. I've probably, probably not my top 10 either, but yeah, loved what they were attempting with the movies, just stuffed with ideas, all of them intriguing. I wanted to, since we, this is up coming up again, there's something I meant to ask you and didn't get a chance to, but in 28 weeks later, which we did as a bonus episode, we were wrong once a bonus episode for our film spot and family members. I think one of the hiccups you talked about is the lack of logic to the kids there going out into the, into town unaccompanied and that whole, that whole sequence.

22:32Josh Larsen:Did you, cause one hangup I had here with 28 years later, and usually I let this stuff go, but to me it was even more egregious. And again, new film, I'll dance among the details here, but more egregious, the circumstances of spike returning to the mainland. Did that, I'm not saying it's a fatal flaw to the film, but did that trip you up at all? Just because it was kind of a mirror to what happened in 28 weeks.

23:00Adam Kempenaar:Yes, it did. It did trip me up in the moment. I had a similar response. I may have actually even been sitting next to film spotting producer, Sam Van Halgren, and said, oh, so this is just going to be a recurring thing with this series, right? but as i watched the rest of the film and certainly as i thought about it more and how i tied that decision to the larger ideas of the film i didn't see it as egregious that's

23:28Josh Larsen:the way i'll put it i didn't see it as egregious i mean i i let it go in weeks so you you should be able to let it go in years all right let's get to your next pick i'm gonna go with one of them days, which speaking of the film spotting family, this came up briefly because our recent bonus episode was on our top five performances of the year so far. And I talked about Kiki Palmer, raved about Kiki Palmer there here in one of them days. She plays Drew, this hardworking LA waitress who is struggling to make ends meet no matter how many hours she puts in. And yeah, absolutely. Palmer is the anchor of the film, but she's not the only reason the movie is on my top five list of the year so far.

24:09Josh Larsen:She's the steady pro who's making space for SZA in her acting debut here as Drew's roommate, Alyssa. These two together are just comic magic. They have these rat-a-tat-tat exchanges you can barely keep up with, but if you can follow them, there's a laugh every time they're turning to each other and saying something.

24:32Adam Kempenaar:For real, I am sorry. I wasn't trying to be...

24:40Josh Larsen:Because actually you're on time. I got off at 7. Damn!

24:46Adam Kempenaar:I got you good, yeah. You know me so well. And I still got you this. That's my girl. Extra cheese? Yes, and I really shouldn't have done it because you're gonna blow up the bathroom. Don't worry about me. I'm going to be fine.

25:00Josh Larsen:Two kisses up to God and I'm going to be straight. What does that have to do with your stomach? This is not dirty. God heals all things.

25:06Adam Kempenaar:Girl, your lactose. Tummy's included. Tummy's included.

25:09Josh Larsen:What I like about their dynamic is it reveals that these two characters, Drew and Alyssa, have a shared understanding of a couple of things. Each other, who they are as people, the community they're in, and then the larger world around them. And then this ties to the plot, how the economy has been basically arranged against them. And so there is some sly social commentary here in one of them days. I think I love Cat Williams as this prophet of sorts who just hangs out around the payday loan. Don't do it. It's a trap.

25:41Adam Kempenaar:You want to loan? If you don't have the money this month, you're not going to have it next month. My credit score is currently a little.

25:49Josh Larsen:Beyond those social commentary, little jabs and nuggets, I think this is just consistently hilarious. So there is more to praise here that I'll hold off on just in case one of them days. I've got it right now slotted at number five. So depending on how great, you know, the next couple of months are, it could fall off the top 10. But just in case it sticks around, I'll say more later. Yeah.

26:12Adam Kempenaar:One of them days for me, this will be the choice of yours that I say I just like. I like one of them days. I definitely think it's worth seeing. And I definitely think it's worth seeing for those performances, especially Kiki Palmer, who is just undeniably a movie star and a great actress. It felt to me, even with its satirical elements and with its humor and with enough little spins it puts on the formula, it's just formulaic enough. It hits all the familiar beats you know exactly it's going to hit, and it hits them precisely the moments you know it's going to hit them. That it didn't wow me maybe the way it did you, but again, those performances are great, and it is a very funny movie.

26:57Adam Kempenaar:So One of Them Days is a movie I also recommend. I think you said this, or if you didn't, I'll reiterate, on Netflix. There you go, right there for you. Okay. My next choice is another one we gave a review to. And another one that you liked, you liked this one more than 28 years later, but another film that you felt was maybe too stuffed with ideas, and it's Ryan Coogler's Sinners. The number one choice of the majority of our listeners. The headline to Angelica Jade Bastien's Vulture Review is Sinners is Bold, Ambitious, and Just Misses Greatness. just missing greatness isn't something I'm going to quibble with because the boldness and the ambitiousness are so great that while you can talk about the different genres and traditions that sinners draws from, which we did to some extent in our review, what can you actually compare sinners to?

27:56Adam Kempenaar:Sinners feels singular and distinct from Kugler's other work. On Letterboxd, Angelica says, it doesn't cohere, and I found the horror lacking a visceral quality it needed, but the film was bristling with rich ideas, dynamic performances, and one musical sequence that delineates the lineage of black music that touches cinematic transcendence. I don't have strong thoughts on the visceral quality of the horror, but we agree on the coherence. I brought that up. She's specifically referring to the scripts. She phrases that the scripts inability to cohere once the true action is underway. I mentioned that I think once all hell breaks loose, then there is a lack of clarity when it comes to how all of that is staged.

28:43Adam Kempenaar:That was really my only, or at least my primary hang up with the film. But she says it's a film that got under my skin and continues to haunt my imagination. And I get that. I felt similarly when you can talk about a movie, Josh, haunting her imagination, bristling with rich ideas and having dynamic performances. And this one certainly does. Speaking of our bonus show that you mentioned, our performances of the year family episode, I singled out as you did one me, Mosaku. I also talked about Haley Steinfeld, Michael B. Jordan, Delray Lindo, who has to be a lock for a Best Supporting Actor nomination.

29:20Adam Kempenaar:All of that's significant. And I do share, obviously, all those sentiments, including sharing the sentiment about that musical sequence at the core of the movie that she says touches cinematic transcendence. that is just one sequence but that is the appropriate register to be in that i think the movie demands you to be in when you're trying to describe what kugler is reaching for with sinners and more often than not what he achieves or comes close to achieving with sinners and i'm rewarding him for that that's why it's on my list you keep dancing with the devil

30:18Josh Larsen:one day he's gonna follow you home yeah i think i'm with angelica on the just missing greatness i've got it on my top 10 so far it's at i think at number eight it's a it's a can't miss film of the year absolutely um and And you're right in that it's hard to say what movie is this like, but I do want to just throw out there, and I think I might have mentioned this at some point, not in our review proper, but at some other point. 2006 is Idlewild. Just because it's a movie I love that has kind of gotten forgotten to history. It's a period musical featuring the hip-hop duo Outkast and set in 1930s Georgia in a speakeasy.

31:00Josh Larsen:So it doesn't have that horror element at all. I was going to say, are they vampires? There are no vampires. So maybe a few less swings than Coogler takes, but man, the effervescent spirit, the musicality, definitely it shares in common. So a great overlooked movie to catch up on Idlewild if you are, as we are, big fans of Sinners. Sinners available VOD if you haven't seen it yet. All right, let's go with my number two of the year so far. And this is one we didn't review together, but I did talk about on the show earlier. It is a golden brick nominee at this point, and it's Grand Theft Hamlet.

31:41Josh Larsen:This is the documentary consisting entirely of footage from inside Grand Theft Auto Online, the open world video game. Basically, during the pandemic, two out-of-work actors in the UK, Sam Crane, Mark Osterveen, They came up with this idea to put on a version of Hamlet right within the game. So they held auditions with other players, strangers, they led rehearsals, and then they ultimately did stage a complete performance. We are putting on a production of Hamlet in GTA Online for the first time ever. We are looking for actors. So come and audition. Please try to stop us. You can't stop our motherf***er.

32:20Oh, f***.

32:22Josh Larsen:They got me. I didn't know what to expect going into this, Adam. Kind of just checked it out out of pure curiosity and figured it'd be something, an experiment that maybe I thought was interesting and then forgot. This thing renewed my faith in humanity. Somehow, just the sense of community and camaraderie that was able to be formed within this online context. So I'm going to go with a quote from a critic here to bolster my pick. It's from the great Amy Nicholson. She's got a wonderful review of Grand Theft Hamlet in the Los Angeles Times. And she did touch on one of the things I appreciated about the way the doc merges high art and low art.

33:03Josh Larsen:So here's Amy Nicholson. Paired alongside Shakespeare's lines about grunting and sweating under a weary life, even the non-playable background extras seem imbued with a soul. and so yeah there is one there is one scene in particular that captures that that was where i was like am i really responding to this this movie the way i i feel like i'm responding um and yeah it was a powerful watch if you have not seen grand theft hamlet and you're a movie subscriber you're lucky because it's streaming there right now and i think it's worth pointing

33:40Adam Kempenaar:out if you are an amazon prime member there may be other ways but if you're an amazon prime member, you can start your movie subscription with a seven day trial. So that's another way to see Grand Theft Hamlet. That is another film that I saw in preparation for this list and kind of just missed my list, Josh. It's in my top 10. So an honorable mention. Yeah. I was curious to hear what you thought of it. It's a must. It's a must see film of the year. And it does have contenders for some of the most moving moments of the year, but there are certainly going to be one or two contenders for funniest moments of the year from this film.

34:18Adam Kempenaar:And I didn't expect, I maybe didn't expect either of those, that it would be as funny or as moving as it is, but just in terms of the artistry, the potential artistry of the world that's created and the control that the artists have, that the filmmakers have over that world and what they could stage, what they could actually control within the world staging this play really kind of astounded me. Yeah, good.

34:46Josh Larsen:I'm so glad you had that reaction. And to that point about control and how they formed this material, I should note that Crane's partner, a filmmaker, Penny Grills, joined them in the game as a character. And then her avatar basically recorded a lot of that footage. So she's definitely a crucial creative component to Grand Theft Hamlet.

35:07Adam Kempenaar:Okay, my next pick is a film that you recommended previously on the show, but I hadn't seen it at that point. So we didn't get to have a full discussion about it. And I know, you know, coming off what I just said about sinners, if you call too many things singular, it loses its meaning or weakens its meaning certainly. But what else Josh is like? Vulcan Isadora, the new film, the latest film from Joel Patrikus. And I know from our bonus show, the family bonus show, that some people didn't really understand what I was saying. Vulcan, it's one word, Vulcan like Spock, B-U-L-C-A-N, and then Isadora, I-Z-A-D-O-R-A.

35:53Adam Kempenaar:Vulcan Isadora, or you can look up Joel Patrikus, P-O-T-R-Y-K-U-S. We talked about his film. I think he was a golden brick contender for buzzard back in 2014. Yes, this movie could go on a list with movies like Kelly Reichert's old joy, even maybe good one from last year, which was a top 10 movie for you movies. There are others men on camping trips, struggling to connect as friends or find meaning in their lives. At least you think that's what this movie might be before you realize that you just have to give yourself over to Patrikas and let the writer-director be your twisted guide on this mysterious journey through a Michigan forest, following these guys as they carry out some kind of pact.

36:46Adam Kempenaar:and Patrikas here is not just a writer-director. He is also co-starring along with Joshua Burge, who was the star of 2014's Buzzard. This is in that same universe. Burge is playing the same character he played then, Marty Jakutanski. Patrikas is playing the same character he played in Buzzard. Derek, though I think a much smaller role, I can't remember, I'll admit, from Buzzard. It's been a long time. The chances of either actor getting any attention from critics or awards groups at the end of the year is nil, which I think is unfortunate because the tightrope walk of annoying energy and fearful anxiety that Patrikas performs is so good and it's matched by Burgess' alienation and pain.

37:31Adam Kempenaar:You still owe me money.

37:33Josh Larsen:For what? I paid your bail that was 700 bucks and you said you'd pay me back. And if you don't go to your court thing, I'm not going to get that back. Well, I'm not going to court. Well, then you owe me money, man. You don't get it. The money doesn't matter anymore. The fucking Jaeger grill doesn't matter anymore. Nothing matters anymore.

37:54Adam Kempenaar:I know that.

37:59Adam Kempenaar:Still 700 bucks, though. Vulcan Isadora is at times discomfortingly hilarious, but also deeply affecting. This is a fundamentally sad, sad movie. And I mean that as a compliment. You actually, Josh, have the second highest score for this movie, your review on Metacritic. So I decided to ignore you and go to the one above it, pulling from the New York Times to validate my take. I think this is Jeanette Katsoulis. When everyone thinks you're a no count, then nothing you do can ever count. Patrikas, though, an inveterate hand-to-mouth practitioner, persists in treating the lost and the left behind as if they matter, and his signature empathy is pronounced here.

38:45Adam Kempenaar:Spasmodically funny, though hardly a comedy, Vulcan Isadora is raw, moving, and briefly horrifying. And honestly, it had me. It had me from the opening shot of the two guys just walking down the road, heading off to the forest. With the metal blaring. walking to death metal yeah i was like i'm in i'm sure i mean death metal and you're already you know you're already sold yeah i i love i obviously i love this film and actually i have this as my number one film of the year right now i think it's that good i really hope people seek it out and i think when they hear things like sad and they hear things like briefly horrifying there may be going to be a little bit put off.

39:33Adam Kempenaar:I was a little bit nervous going into the theater to watch it after hearing you talk about it on the show. The disturbing element to it just is not as disturbing as I feared it would be. At least my expectation going in. It's not a Saw movie. It's not a movie that's going to overwhelm you with something grotesque. It's not. But it is it is going to ask you to invest in something that is, that is a little bit hard to consider. That's the way I'll put it, but it, but it is a very smart movie and it is, as I said, a very sad movie, but in a, in a very mature way and in a poignant way. And I, I just really hope more people will give this movie a look, Josh.

40:19Josh Larsen:Well, and the most disturbing element, which we won't spoil, I would describe, it's not the point of the film, it's the fulcrum. And I think that's part of the reason why, um, you know, it's distinct from something like a saw movie is it's, it's not why we're there. No. And, you know, I probably mentioned this when I did review it, but just to your point about how rough of a watch is it, I do think I wrote about it as outsider cinema. And by that, I mean, it's not a cinema about outsiders, which may be buzzard. I would have described as the first time we met this Joshua Burge character, Marty Jackatansky, You know, following this guy who seems on the margins of society in aggressive ways, Vulcan Isadora doubles down on that to become not about outsiders, but an outsider work because the movie itself is pugnacious.

41:11Josh Larsen:It's, it's, these are, this is a movie that's understandably ostracized. Maybe that's why it's not getting as many viewers or as much praise as it deserves. but if it were any less accommodating, it wouldn't be itself. Um, and so yes, it is worth pushing through the hesitation that listeners might have. Um, absolutely. I agree with you there. It's on my top 10 of the year so far right now.

41:37Adam Kempenaar:Well, let's get then to our final two choices. These are our two shared choices and Josh, you can take your pick. Which one do you want to start with?

41:45Josh Larsen:So let's start with black bag, you know, Steven Soderbergh's marriage minded spy flick. It got a full review on the show, Adam, but I was raving about it without you, the Soderbergh fan on the show. I did go into my reasons in detail, had a good conversation with guest co-host Roxanna Haddaddy of Vulture. All that's to say, I've been waiting for this episode because I want to hear in full. We've touched on Black Bag in passing. I know you like it, but I want to hear a little bit more about what you like about this one. And I said this was the most excited I've been about a Soderbergh movie in 13 years and took me back to like Magic Mike to describe myself as a Soderbergh normie.

42:28Josh Larsen:You know, his more mainstream stuff is what I tend to go for. And this is definitely in that vein. But yeah, as I said, you're much more of the Soderbergh devotee than I am. I know you're a fan of Black Bag. Tell me more and just tell me kind of where it does rank among his work for you.

42:43Adam Kempenaar:It hasn't even been a great year. It's been a great half year for us Soderbergh heads, the truly committed. We never gave up hope. And he's delivered two, I think, two really wonderful films. I am a fan of presence as well. Yeah. Yeah. In this first half of the year. And how about David Koepp writing the screenplay for Backbag Redemption? I'm going to say I'm a bigger fan of this script than I am of the last film of his we discussed, which was Jurassic Park Rebirth. Oh, he's on a winning streak as far as I'm concerned. I know, I know. This is a legitimately sexy film. And I was going to say despite, but I know you've got a great line here, maybe because of how monogamous the central couple is.

43:26Adam Kempenaar:And as one of my favorite, well, maybe my favorite character in the film, as Clarissa says, my God, that's hot. And there are those moments that really sizzle in the movie. Marisa Abela gives one of my favorite scene-stealing turns of the year. It's sexy, it's sleek, it's suspenseful. Monica Castillo, she sums it up nicely in her four-star review for RogerEbert.com, and she makes a connection that perhaps helps explain why I went so hard for this movie. She says, in a spiritual sense, Black Bag shares some DNA with the simmering tension of Soderbergh's excellent romantic crime drama Out of Sight, in which a U.S.

44:02Adam Kempenaar:federal marshal, Jennifer Lopez, falls under the spell of a wayward criminal with a heart of gold, George Clooney. But in Black Bag, the sexual chemistry between Fassbender and Blanchett feels like a tango, smooth and sharp gliding across the floor with nothing to break the concentration on each other's eyes. Yet the speed of the dialogue feels closer to that of a screwball comedy. Every conversation is a test of wills and smarts, a tennis match between players who think they're each at the top of their game. But as we've seen many times, only one player goes home the winner.

44:30Josh Larsen:Have you ever physically assaulted a significant other during an argument? Oh, you know I have. Again, yes or no? Yes, enthusiastically.

44:43Adam Kempenaar:Every scene in this film, Josh, opens up new layers, new possibilities. And I don't know how many films in the espionage genre you can say this about. It's more coward than Le Carre. Black Bag favors penetrating parlor conversations over rousing car chases and exotic covert operations. Think about it. Any scene you might consider a set piece in this film, or if I just asked you, give me your top three or four favorite slash most exciting scenes in this film. I guarantee you, and if we polled most people who have seen this film, there's really nothing else to consider. All the choices would be two or more people in a room with at least one table and people sitting around them.

45:34Adam Kempenaar:There's no chases, right? In terms of conventional spy stuff, there's like one handoff, which is pretty brief. And I don't recall exactly, but we might only experience that handoff through a screen. I don't know if we actually even ever see it or experience it the way the characters actually do. We're detached through that screen. So there's none of that conventional spy stuff. It is all like parlor drama conversations and yet riveting.

46:04Josh Larsen:Scene of the year stuff. One of those conversations as far as I'm concerned. So, so where, where does it land? Is it, is it like top tier?

46:11Adam Kempenaar:Would you say it's top tier? Oh, you know, you're asking me that and maybe you can vamp a little bit or give me some more of your thoughts on it while I look it up. because I do think that I added it to my Soderbergh ranked list. And it's fairly high, but Soderbergh for me is, I don't put him in the same category or hold him in the same esteem as the Cohn brothers, but I do like so many of his films that I wouldn't be surprised if I have Black Bag in like 11th place, Josh, but I still really love the film.

46:45Josh Larsen:Yeah, I guess that's why I asked the tier question. Like, you know, do you, do you consider it like in that upper tier? Is it like the one right below it? Cause yeah, the Coen's or, you know, PTA or Wes Anderson are, are similar examples where there's like the masterpiece tier and then there's the great films tier. So, um, for me, I mean, it goes back to my, my idea of me being a Soderbergh normie. Like I really go for something like contagion or even Solaris, which I know is a remake of Tarkovsky, but is also a George Clooney space vehicle. And the other stuff of his that I really, really like, um, is the more conventional stuff, even though overall I like his films, like I'm overall positive on him, but, um, yeah, this is definitely top tier for me.

47:35Josh Larsen:Okay.

47:35Adam Kempenaar:I'm looking at my list. It turns out I haven't updated it. It would definitely be at minimum. It would be in 12th place because right now I have his 2022 film Kimmy in 12th place. And I like Black Bag more than Kimmy. And I liked Kimmy a fair amount, but I do like Black Bag more. So then it would be a conversation, a contest between Black Bag and the first Magic Mike from 2012 for that 11th spot. All right, there you go. So we're getting into some good territory when you're looking at that top 11. I've got some masterpieces, Out of Sight, Traffic, Solaris, or Masterpiece Adjacent, Traffic, Solaris, Sex, Lies, and Videotape, The Limey, Ocean's Eleven.

48:20Adam Kempenaar:That's that top five. It's not there. It's not in the top five.

48:24Josh Larsen:Out of Sight for me is in its own category and Black Bag is the one right below that. So really, really good film.

48:29Adam Kempenaar:I'm not quite willing to go there, but it's certainly hovering right around that top 10. So let's get to the other film that we have in common. We believe it is one of the top five films of the year so far. I said no one would come up with this combo of Black Bag and this movie, partly because they definitely haven't heard me talk about this movie. And as we're recording this anyway, I haven't even logged it on Letterboxd. So people who are really paying attention to our comings and goings as far as viewing would not expect me to have put this movie on the list, but I saw this film and obviously was pretty blown away.

49:09Josh Larsen:On Becoming a Guinea Fowl, I am so glad it worked for you as well as it did for me, Adam. I've got it right at number three, so behind Universal Language and Grand Theft Hamlet, but right up there as one of the best of the year. What'd you love about it?

49:24Adam Kempenaar:Well, first, I did, after the fact, Of course, go to my notes from I Am Not a Witch, which was part of a marathon a few years ago, Rungano Neoni's debut film. And it's not a film I remember vividly. I remember quite liking. And then you look at the notes and you see things like the main character named Shula. And you see bodies, dead bodies, and you see police involvement. And I see things in my notes like stuck in the past, progress stunted, wrestling with modernity, wrestling with identity, oppression, blame for your troubles. And then I also see a character described, you know, power that comes from her stillness.

50:07Adam Kempenaar:And I'm like, okay, so there are definitely some connections between these two films. And I know you talked about Susan Chardy, who is the lead in this film. When we were talking about our performances in that bonus content, she went right to the top, Josh, of my best actress list. And it is a performance where she starts the film very detached, disconnected. You don't know why. I could see some people watching the performance and thinking it isn't giving you much. I think what is under the surface is always there. It feels like a very smart and a very emotional performance, even when it doesn't seem to be the case that she is giving you a lot.

50:59Adam Kempenaar:I think she's always giving you something behind those eyes and that face, again, even when she's just being very, very still. And this is an acting debut, we should note. Is it really? Oh, I didn't know that. astonishing for that right and i'll throw it back to you here but the way i thought about this film the reason why it had to be in my top five is other than maybe soderbergh working in a very different milieu and having so much more practice at this if you will i didn't have another film this year where i felt that the director was more assured and more confident in their vision yeah i I could see that.

51:40Josh Larsen:I mean, you could, you could say Kugler, except at least to my eyes, it's almost like his ambition was so clearly he's a director capable of control, but his ambition is almost to went beyond the control. But yeah, I would agree. Neona here, like every frame is doing exactly what she wants it to do and serving exactly the ideas that her movie contains. Yeah. Yeah.

52:05Adam Kempenaar:The intentionality of those choices, the motivation behind when she's handheld versus static shots. It's not like it has one consistent aesthetic, nor does it need to. There's handheld, there's static shots. There's low angles. There's eye level shots. Sometimes very occasionally there's jump cuts and they're very effective. Sometimes there's longer takes. Sometimes she uses the score to raise tension. Sometimes even there's terror, legitimate sort of terror in a scene that the score amplifies. And then there are other moments, and this is another connection, though it's not as pronounced, another connection to I Am Not a Witch.

52:44Adam Kempenaar:There are moments of fantasy and flashback or a sort of dreamlike reality that push their way into reality. On Becoming Guinea Fowl is a reckoning. And Neoni proves to be a force as a filmmaker.

53:02Josh Larsen:Yeah. To add to the praise, I looked up some reviews and want to quote here our friend Robert Daniels, critic here in Chicago, who reviewed the movie Out of Can, actually, for RogerEbert.com. He called it a magically transcendent, cunningly funny, and arresting piece of cultural commentary that pits the inequalities of tradition against the warmth community can still on occasions provide. And I think Robert captures the ambivalence experienced by the main character in those words. So really glad you went for this one as much as I did. It looks like if you have a Mac subscription, you can watch it there.

53:43Josh Larsen:Otherwise, it is available for rent on a variety of other streaming platforms.

53:48Adam Kempenaar:Well, I don't know if we totally pulled off being concise. Those are. I think we did better than a full standard top five. Yeah. Yeah. A little better. Those are our top five films of the year so far. If you would like to see that full list, you can view it at filmspotting.net slash lists. Josh, we have both given a few titles sprinkled throughout that are honorable mentions. Do you want to reiterate those titles and any others that we haven't thrown out?

54:20Josh Larsen:Yeah, I'll just give you a countdown here and I'll start at number one with the ones we've already talked about. Universal Language in the top spot, then Grand Theft Hamlet, followed by On Becoming a Guinea Fall, Black Bag at number four, and One of Them Days at number five. So a couple titles that have come up and some that haven't at number six, Mickey 17. I am a big fan of the Bong Joon-ho film from this year. Sorry, baby, which is another golden brick nominee. We recently discussed sinners is at eight. Volcanys Adora is at nine and hanging on there. Adam, the 10 slot Megan 2.0. I had so much fun with that movie.

55:00Adam Kempenaar:so in my six through ten no ranking here the ones that have been mentioned grand theft hamlet presence universal language the two that haven't been mentioned on a recent show maybe the 28 years later show i sang the praises of alex ross perry's quite ambitious documentary about the band pavement It's called Pavements and a film. This is another one that really has grown the more I've thought about it. And after I watched it, I almost couldn't fall asleep because I kept thinking about it. Moments, motivations, just the mysteries of this film. Misericordia, Josh, is a fascinating film from the director of Stranger by the Lake, which we might have given a few minutes to.

55:49Adam Kempenaar:I remember liking otherwise definitely haven't seen all of his work, but a film that I do encourage people to see. So that rounds out my list, my honorable mentions of the films of the year so far. Again, you can check out all those picks at filmspotting.net slash lists.

56:08Josh Larsen:Listening is the number one thing you can do to support an independently produced show like ours. A couple more things you can do. Take a minute to give us a rating or review on Apple podcasts or Spotify. You can do this even if you're brand new to the show, share your first impressions, or if you've been around for 20 years, why haven't you done this yet? Every new review does help us reach new listeners. So this is usually the spot where we feature a member of the film spotting family, but this week we're going to share a couple of voice messages that listeners submitted ahead of film spotting fest that was back in March.

56:41Josh Larsen:And we want to highlight a few of these over the course of our 20th anniversary year. We did offer a few potential prompts, relationship with the show, favorite episode, favorite memory. Here are a couple of longtime listeners and their messages.

56:57Adam Kempenaar:Hi, Film Spotting. And congratulations for 20 years of great podcasting. This is Ofer Liebergal from Tel Aviv, listening since 2016. You know, around here, life can sometimes be like a film spotting pool. Deeply flawed, cruel, impossible and the vote goes the wrong way. But even if I feel isolated from the situation and the people around me, I know I will feel at home when I listen to your podcast. For me, film spotting is not just great film criticism. It's also values. Because to each conversation, you bring kindness, respect, and trying to understand the other point of view. Even if you disagree.

57:48Adam Kempenaar:Even if you don't like the movies. Thank you for that and for everything you do.

57:52Josh Larsen:Hello, Film Spotting 20th. This is Ben Kohler coming to you from a parking lot in New Jersey. and even though I'm from New Jersey, I am perhaps more notorious as a member of the New York Trivia Spotting Mafia and I want to say thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you for 18 years. I've been listening to you guys since 2007. The Across the Universe episode was my first episode. When I was 13 years old and I am now soon to be 31 years old, you guys are one of the more consistent relationships in my life over that time period and I want to thank you, of course, for all the unbelievable, insightful film content in the last 18 years.

58:33Josh Larsen:But maybe most importantly, my favorite film spotting memory thing, whatever, is that you guys, through Trivia Spotting specifically, were the catalyst for me meeting some of my best friends in the entire world. Talking about the CFFs in New York, as well as people from Chicago, people from New England, people out in LA. You guys as well, getting to meet you guys a few times has been amazing. I feel so lucky to count you guys as people that I'm knowing in my life as opposed to just listening to. I want to thank you for all that, as well as all the great film content in the last 18 years. You have taught me to see other people's points, which I didn't always, usually.

59:18Josh Larsen:Wicked is good, Adam. Thank you guys so much. Here's to 20 more years. The world may crumble, but film spotting will live.

59:25Adam Kempenaar:Ben Kohler, a listener we know very well from Trivia Spotting. And also I've had many in-person meetings. Not only is he mentioned at some different festivals or some different live shows and meetups over the years, but also from Trivia Spotting. And then Ofer Josh is someone we feel like we know very well from all those virtual events like Trivia Spotting.

59:47Josh Larsen:Which for him, I believe, is taking place in the middle of the night or close to it. The middle of the night. Yeah.

59:51Adam Kempenaar:The early hours of the morning. It's crazy.

59:53Josh Larsen:He's there quite often. Yeah.

59:56Adam Kempenaar:And how about the phrasing there talking about, you know, where he's living and it can feel deeply flawed, like a film spotting poll, but talking about what he values about the show, just wonderful stuff. Thank you so much for taking the time over and for valuing the show the way you do. It does mean a lot to us. Ben, of course, a member of the trivia spotting mafia, Ben, of course, a member of the trivia of spotting New York mafia, as he noted, and the CFFs there. That's a reference to the Kohler family friends as they refer to themselves. That's an inside joke there. And Ben had some kind words as well.

1:00:35Adam Kempenaar:We'll feature a few more of those over the coming weeks. In addition to keeping us doing what we're doing, your support comes with perks. You get to listen early and ad free. You get our weekly newsletter. You get exclusive opportunities, including being part of the film spotting family discord. We're such a great group over there. And you get our monthly bonus shows in June. We referenced it a ton during the top five, right? Performances of the year so far, some extra content. And in July, we are going to do another installment of We Were Wrong Once, some Cone Brothers action, a movie I have referenced multiple times over the past five or ten years.

1:01:15Adam Kempenaar:movie I have said I badly need to revisit and reappraise because I was not a big fan of it. And it is, Josh, one of only two Cone Brothers films. Now, I do have one Cone Brothers blind spot. I still have not seen The Lady Killers. I'm not a completist. But otherwise, there are only two Cone Brothers films I have not given at least three stars to, not given the little heart to on Letterboxd and they are Intolerable Cruelty and Burn After Reading. Much to the chagrin of many film spotting listeners.

1:01:50Josh Larsen:That makes sense because both are in the farce vein, I would say. Yeah, I am a fan of Burn After Reading, but the last time I saw it, it still stayed in that lower tier as we've been talking about tiers of Coen Brothers. So positive, but maybe not appreciative enough. I don't know. We'll have to see if this revisit bumps it up on that ranking or not. I do know I'm just looking forward to giggling a lot, so that'll be worth it.

1:02:20Adam Kempenaar:Hopefully it will be. If you would like to hear that show and you're not already a FilmSpotting family member, please join us. You can learn everything you need to know at FilmSpottingFamily.com.

1:02:35Adam Kempenaar:Are you being serious right now? Yeah. You'd let me interview you as Superman? Sure.

1:02:48Ready?

1:02:49Josh Larsen:Let's do it, Cronkite.

1:02:51Adam Kempenaar:Superman. Miss Lane. Clark, Lois, Lex, they're all back in James Gunn's Superman, which hits theaters this weekend. I'm told there's also a dog, Josh.

1:03:04Josh Larsen:There is a dog, which I don't think is a spoiler, featured pretty prominently in one of the trailers. And yeah, I saw this last night.

1:03:15Adam Kempenaar:I can confirm there's a dog. You've filed your review already. I may have been on your site earlier today, larsononfilm.com, to look something up and seen your review. And you are just not these days a James Gunn guy. We'll discuss next week. Okay. We will discuss next week. We'll have a review of Superman. And so far, anyway, we're sticking to this top five. We're going to try to show Superman some love. Even Josh. We're going to share our top five Superman moments. Josh may go back to George Reeves for his top five. We'll see. Come on. Christopher Reeve is great. Okay. For a schedule of future shows.

1:03:57Adam Kempenaar:Subject to change. but you can view it. FilmSpotting.net. Click on Episodes.

1:04:03Josh Larsen:Are you going to bark all day, little doggie? Or are you going to bite? What was that?

1:04:14Josh Larsen:I'm sorry, I didn't catch it. Would you repeat it? Are you going to bark all day, little doggie? Or are you going to bite?

1:04:24Adam Kempenaar:Who else? Mr. Blonde, the late Michael Madsen with Harvey Keitel and Reservoir Dogs. The Chicago-born Madsen died. Last weekend, he was 67 years old. We wanted to pay a little tribute. He has credits going back to the early 80s. I do remember him very vividly. War Games is a movie I was obsessed with as a kid, watched it a hundred times, and he's in the prologue at the beginning. I don't even think his character has a name, but there's a prologue where there's a nuclear launch sequence. And the other guy in the sequence is actually Leo McGarry, John Spencer from the West Wing and Michael Madsen.

1:05:05Adam Kempenaar:And John Spencer's character doesn't want to do his job and press the button. And Michael Madsen's character gets his gun out to try to force him to press the button. And that's the end of the sequence.

1:05:19Josh Larsen:Sir, we are at launch. Turn your key. Sorry, I'm so sorry.

1:05:23Adam Kempenaar:Turn your key, sir. It's intense. Yeah. Yeah, you were locked in. I was. He's bumped Bailey in The Natural, another movie I was obsessed with in the 80s. Then we got to the 90s where he was in The Doors and Thelma and Louise. Of course, it's the Tarantino stuff. In addition to Donnie Brasco, it's the Tarantino stuff like Kill Bill, Volume 1 and 2 and The Hateful Eight and Once Upon a Time in Hollywood where I think he did some of his best work.

1:05:47Josh Larsen:Yeah. And the thing about Madsen that comes to mind for me, and maybe this isn't evidenced in war games, but curiously, I think it is in Reservoir Dogs, despite the brutality of that famous sequence. Somehow Madsen had a softness to his presence while it was also intimidating and could be brooding and violent. There was just a little tinge of that he brought that made him distinct and I think does lodge some of these performances in our memory.

1:06:21Adam Kempenaar:Yeah.

1:06:22Josh Larsen:R.I.P.

1:06:23Adam Kempenaar:Michael Madsen. Josh, would you like to say a few more words about your upcoming event, August 11th through 14th at the Siskel Film Center in Chicago?

1:06:35Josh Larsen:Yeah, going to keep banging the drum for this. Tickets are still available. They are available now, but it is Cinema Interruptus, the player. And I did read the book, Adam. I know you teased me for this, wanting to read the book. No, you watched the movie first. You did it the right way. It actually went your approved way this time. But I read Michael Tolkien's novel this summer and some fascinating differences. Even though Tolkien wrote the screenplay for the player, you got to wonder, and in some of my research, maybe I'll dig some of this up, whether it was Altman's hand moving that in another direction.

1:07:11Josh Larsen:I'm not saying one is better than the other, but very interesting. And it's probably one of the things we'll touch on, you know, not spend a ton of time on, but we'll touch on with Interruptus. We've got four days to do it. As I've described, this is four days of communal film criticism. So we're going to watch the player in its entirety on August 11 and then return the next day and spend three days going through it scene by scene. Anyone can shout stop and ask a question, make a comment. Maybe there will be some other folks who have read the novel and want to weigh in on that. So if you can't make it for all four days, you can still drop in for one day and buy a single day ticket.

1:07:50Josh Larsen:Of course, there are four-day packages available too. SiskelFilmCenter.org slash interruptus if you want to pick some of those up. Just got hope for some lucky breaks. Hope is not a strategy.

1:08:05Adam Kempenaar:Anything else, Professor?

1:08:06Josh Larsen:Try fast. This week on our sister podcast, The Next Picture Show, looking at cinemas present via its past, they have a new pairing, F1, the movie. I think we both still need to catch up with this.

1:08:19Adam Kempenaar:Oh no, Josh. Oh, come on. Oh, I said I had top five films of the year homework to do. And I did a lot of it. I made it to F1. The only thing I want to know about it.

1:08:29Josh Larsen:Uh-huh. Is it better than the film? The next picture show folks are pairing it with Adam McKay's Talladega nights. One of the shining moments in John C. Reilly's career. Obviously Will Ferrell's career. Who else am I? Who else am I forgetting? Who's, who's so great in that? Is it Leslie Bibb? Borat, of course. Oh my gosh. Yes, of course. And his dad, who's, who's, who's his dad again? I am blanking at the moment, Josh. I'm sorry. Cole, Cole. Last name is Cole. Anyways, which is better, Adam? Talladega Nights or F1?

1:09:08Adam Kempenaar:I'm going to go Talladega Nights, though. I like F1. I like F1. It delivered exactly what I expected it to. So no, didn't make my top five. didn't make my top 10. I'm not sure it's in my top 15, Josh, but it delivered exactly what I thought it would. It's, you know, Maverick and Top Gun in a Formula One car, even though we already got Maverick or Top Gun anyway, in a NASCAR vehicle that was called Days of Thunder. So this is just with a bigger budget in a faster car in or on more exotic tracks.

1:09:44Josh Larsen:All right. There you go. Gary Cole plays. Gary Cole. There you have it. So some of these synapses are still firing. New episodes of The Next Picture Show drop every Tuesday. You can find them wherever you get your podcasts.

1:09:58Adam Kempenaar:Listen, man. Call me Mule.

1:10:01Josh Larsen:Everybody else does. Mule. Okay? Sure. Mule? Yes, sir. I always used to have trouble with my name, too. But Dusky always wanted to call me badass.

1:10:21Adam Kempenaar:Badass. Time for another deeply flawed film spotting poll question. And this one might be because the answer apparently is too obvious. Jack Nicholson there with Otis Young in 1973 is the last detail. In a couple of weeks, we are planning to share our top five Jack Nicholson scenes. The last detail, I think, was some homework for you, Josh. I know you checked it out recently.

1:10:46Josh Larsen:It was homework, and I am so glad that it was. I really went for the last detail. I'll save any further comments about Nicholson in it for that top five list when we get to it.

1:10:58Adam Kempenaar:I haven't seen the last detail since I was an undergrad in college watching it on a VHS tape. I need to rectify that. It's due for a revisit. it. Yeah. Along with that top five, we'll have a Pantheon project review of one flew over the cuckoo's nest. That is a VHS tape. We almost wore out, believe it or not in college. For some reason, my roommates and I loved to watch one flew over the cuckoo's nest.

1:11:23Josh Larsen:You guys were just against the system. You weren't taken up with any of that crap.

1:11:27Adam Kempenaar:Yeah. Yeah. Maybe so. That movie turns 50 this year. So our poll question asks you to choose one and only one Nicholson, performance. Josh, give them the options.

1:11:41Josh Larsen:Billy Badass Spadusky, that's from The Last Detail, Jake Gittes from Chinatown, The Joker in Batman, Randall Patrick McMurphy in Cuckoo's Nest, and Jack Torrance, The Shining. You can write in with another choice and vote other because there are many, many others.

1:11:58Adam Kempenaar:Having peaked at the results so far, and admittedly, the poll just went up this show. People are just now hearing it. So a lot of votes still to come in, but it does seem like we probably should have said, pick just one Jack Nicholson performance that isn't RP McMurphy in One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest. That would have been a more interesting poll question because he is running away with it.

1:12:29Josh Larsen:Wow. And see, I would have thought Giddes in Chinatown might have been another likely option. So yeah, Cuckoo's Nest still sticking around and big fans of the film and his performance. You can vote in that poll and leave a comment at filmspotting.net. Look, kid, I put in a good word for you with Sheldrake and personnel. Mr. Sheldrake? That's right. We were discussing our department, manpower-wise, promotion-wise. I told him what a bright boy you are. You're always on the lookout for young executives. Thank you. You're on your way up, buddy boy, and you're also out of liquor. Oh, I know. Mr. Eichelberger, Mortgage and Loan Department.

1:13:03Josh Larsen:Last night he had a little Halloween party.

1:13:04Adam Kempenaar:All right, buddy boy, let's get to The Apartment. That's Jack Lemmon with David Lewis's Mr. Kirkaby in Billy Wilder's The Apartment. The movie turned 65 this year. That film has been in the film spotting pantheon since 2010 when we concluded a Billy Wilder marathon by naming it The Best Picture, which doesn't necessarily mean it's the best Billy Wilder movie. A lot of strong contenders there. We should say you weren't my co-host yet when we did that Wilder Marathon, Josh, which is why we are talking about the apartment this week. We are calling it our Pantheon project been going on for roughly a year or so and is going to go on.

1:13:43Adam Kempenaar:I think it's scheduled until around 2028, where we're picking these anniversaries or different milestones for these films, taking every movie that's in the Pantheon. And we're trying to make sure that we have an in-depth discussion on the books between me and you. So even though the apartment has been talked about before in the show's history, this is now the two of us partaking in a conversation about this classic film.

1:14:15Josh Larsen:2028 also when I finally get access to my own draft picks back. So that's going to be a big year, Adam. The apartment came to theaters in the summer of 1960. Jack Lemmon had already appeared in Wilder's Some Like It. Hot, I think, maybe for me, Wilder's Best Picture. I don't know. That was just the year before, and he was Oscar-nominated in it. Here, Lemon plays C.C. Baxter, a corporate drone who hopes to increase his odds of climbing the ladder career-wise at the Consolidated Life Insurance Company by letting company executives use his Upper West Side apartment for their extramarital affairs.

1:14:51Josh Larsen:Shirley MacLaine's Fran Kubelik is an elevator operator at Consolidated Life who has a bad habit of dating lousy men, some married men, including one of those Consolidated execs. The Apartment won the Best Picture Oscar in 1961. Wilder won his second Best Director Oscar. It was his eighth and final directing nomination. Lemon and McClane both nominated for Oscars, as was Wilder's screenplay, which he wrote with longtime writing partner IAL Diamond. Adam, you love The Apartment. I love The Apartment. Everybody loves The Apartment. Why do we love it still 65 years later?

1:15:34Adam Kempenaar:Because great filmmaking is timeless. Directing, writing, performances. differences the the core ideas and themes of this movie though i think are also timeless which we'll start digging into here in a moment but play along with me for a second i was thinking about this earlier today josh and i was thinking sure that can be true everything i just said but of course you still would have to acknowledge that the movie feels like a product of its time and maybe this will backfire on me but eliminating things like no nobody's using a computer or is texting can you think of something glaring just off the top of your head?

1:16:15Adam Kempenaar:Can you think of something glaring that positions this movie as a relic of the mid 20th century? What comes to mind?

1:16:22Josh Larsen:Well, I mean, yeah, relic. No, that's why we're talking about it now because it's not. I don't think aside from any cultural or sets or props or costume design or those things that are period specific? I don't think so. And I can say more about that in terms of its endurance. But yeah, I think a basic answer to your question is no, it doesn't feel like a relic at all.

1:16:48Adam Kempenaar:Well, that's where I'm going though. Even in terms of props or those other material aspects, the only clear one for me was thinking about watching the operators connect the phone lines in those couple scenes at Consolidated Life. Okay, that's a different American epic, clearly. And my point here isn't that there's nothing dated in the movie. Of course there is. The point is the apartment is remarkably modern in both its construction and its sensibility. And I want to talk about that sensibility that Wilder brings to it. And just thinking about the concept of the movie, one of the University of Chicago Graham School classes that Maddie and I taught was the films of Billy Wilder.

1:17:33Adam Kempenaar:So I had done a little bit of research on the film to prep for that class on the apartment. And I don't know if you know this story or not, Josh, but one of the seeds for this story for Wilder was planted when he saw Brief Encounter, a film that we love, the David Lane film. And viewers like us see Brief Encounter And we're all fawning over how in love Alec and Laura are and how tragic it is that they just can't be together. And you know what Billy Wilder is thinking about while he's watching Brief Encounter? The dope, or in the parlance of the apartment, the schnook, who makes sure that he's out of his flat so his friend can bring a woman to have sex with in his bed.

1:18:22Adam Kempenaar:What type of guy is that? What's his story? I think Wilder even phrased it like the guy whose bed is still warm from the couple that was in it. That's what he's thinking about. And I don't want to call it cynicism, but I think you see it here and in other Wilder films. There's just a frankness, a candidness that compels him to just cut right to the core, the basic humanness of something. And I think that's what makes any sentimentality that does come through in his films, and it does, that much stronger. is that it's always earned. And I also think his outsider perspective matters that he's someone born in Austria, Hungary.

1:19:01Adam Kempenaar:He begins as a screenwriter in Berlin. He eventually emigrates to Hollywood because of the rise of Hitler. And he focuses that sharp outsider's eye again and again on what it means to be an American and the American experience and the realities and the illusion of the American dream, the illusions of that dream. And he turns that guy from brief encounter, he imagines him or reimagines him as C.C. Baxter. And he tells us that the C is for Calvin. The C's are for Calvin and Clifford. But I don't know. I like to think of it more like corporate climber or maybe even constant compromiser, you know, and the way then throughout the film that that Wilder surgically shreds the hypocrisy of American capitalism and gluttony and avarice.

1:19:51Adam Kempenaar:And there's so many examples, but I'll give you just a few. And this is a minor thing, but I think every, this is the thing about Wilder, right? That makes him so special as a screenwriter collaborating with IAL Diamond, but also as a director, every detail matters. In the narration early on, he mentions that Baxter mentions that his rent got raised because the landlord put in an air conditioning unit, but it's a secondhand air conditioning unit, Of course, cutting whatever corner they could. How about in that first, I think, exchange, the first encounter that we see where Kirkaby is leaving with Sylvia and he says something that suggests he does this regularly with other women.

1:20:34Adam Kempenaar:He lets it slip. And she says, hey, wait a second. Are you doing this with just anybody? And what does he say? Certainly not. I'm a happily married man, right? And it's like he's not even aware. of his own hypocrisy. And later when Baxter gets the promotion, finally gets his name on the door, gets exactly what he's been bucking for the entire time, he boasts to Fran that he's the second youngest executive. And who's the youngest? The youngest is the grandson of the owner of the company. So neither the youngest nor the second youngest deserve it. This is how you get ahead. it isn't a meritocracy it's not about hard work or the time that you put in what does the guy next to him say when baxter's getting called upstairs i've been here twice as long as you have doesn't matter that's the world that wilder explores in this movie yeah the cynicism is

1:21:33Josh Larsen:absolutely there but i think the reason wilder's movies for me never curdle towards bitterness or nihilism, which could be further steps after cynicism is because of the comedy. It's because of those golden nuggets that, you know, Diamond and he put in the screenplay. It's because to go back to the brief encounter story, when he sees that minor character in that film, part of him must think that's kind of a funny situation. Absolutely. You know, it's, it's sad. It's gross. It's, you know, it's all those things you described, but it's also kind of funny. And so if you push that and push the comedy and get people to come along with the comedy, then you're going to allow the cynicism to have space within the story as well without overwhelming it.

1:22:30Josh Larsen:I think that's the magic trick of Wilder and why for me, I've never understood why people find his cynicism as a negative or find his comedy as a way to write him off. You know, it's the blend. It's the perfect blend that he manages that makes him so special as a filmmaker and along with these collaborators he worked with so often. I think this movie does, you know, still stand the test of time partly because it speaks so directly to loneliness, so achingly to loneliness. And this is another element that, you know, the discussion of comedy and cynicism plays a part in, right? Because to just focus on the loneliness could lead to despair, a close relation of cynicism.

1:23:18Josh Larsen:And just pushing on the comedy, I don't think you'd get this loneliness that the movie carries. But there's so much talk about these days, these days about an epidemic of loneliness that we're undergoing. You know, some people say it's technology. You know, that's degrading human contact. Maybe it's the breakdown of the traditional family structure. Maybe it's that people move for employment. People compared to like the 60s or whatever, people will go across the country for a job. All these things. And those causes weren't around when the apartment came out, but the same sort of sadness was. And I think it's because this is also a holiday movie, which seems obvious when it is set, the Christmas party at the office.

1:24:04Josh Larsen:immaculately sustained comic, cynic sequence, the way they handle all those elements in that sequence. But yeah, there's a Christmas party. This is a holiday movie. And the holidays, of course, wonderful times for those who have people to celebrate them with. Horrible times for those who don't. I think that's why this movie is set during the holidays. And it's directly related to this idea of loneliness. These are two lonely characters, deeply, deeply lonely characters who have not found a way in this big city to meet that. And Baxter has perhaps tried through his corporate striving and Fran clearly through the romantic striving, and they both met dead ends.

1:24:50Josh Larsen:And this brings me to the one thing I want to talk about is these characters and the performances because it's the one thing, no matter how many times I watch the apartment, I am continually dazzled by both of them. But just to start with lemon as Baxter, the sequence, Adam, this time that made me just giggle throughout, but also recognize the genius of lemon as a physical performer is the extended bit. It's a single take. There's no edit, it wilder doesn't let him off the hook at all but this is when baxter has the cold cold and a fever they add both and he's trying to call all of his bosses to reschedule right and the way lemon just sustains the sequence with performance he is such a fuss budget and yet pulls it off and you're rooting for him i mean you shouldn't be rooting for any of this but because it's baxter because it's Lemon, you are.

1:25:55Josh Larsen:And it is a tight rope, high wire act that was maybe the thing I enjoyed the most on this rewatch. Look, Mr. Vanderhoff, I've got you down here for tonight, but I'm going to be using the place myself, so I'll have to cancel. Cancel? But it's her birthday. I already ordered the cake.

1:26:11Adam Kempenaar:But I am sick. I got a terrible cold and a fever and I got to go to bed right after work.

1:26:16Josh Larsen:If you got a cold, you go to a Turkish bath. Spend the night there. Sweat it out. That's the way you get pneumonia and if i got pneumonia i'd be a bit for a month okay you made your point yeah

1:26:26Adam Kempenaar:the performances are undeniable and i have a scene like that too this time but i want to go back and just say it's a great comedic performance that never devolves into pure silliness and there are great there's no slapstick there are great small physical moments like in the opening scene where he starts nodding his head in sync with the machine which is also in sync with the score And there are great verbal and physical moments. And this is the scene, right, where for me, the scene this time that I really loved where he is talking to Sheldrake the first time and he's a little slow. figuring out where Sheldrake is going.

1:27:08Adam Kempenaar:And the line that Fred McMurray says is, it also says here that you are alert, astute, and quite imaginative. And he says, oh, and then the camera just holds on him as he realizes, oh, that's a prompt, you dummy. You need to figure out, you need to read between the lines. And the oh then turns into oh. And the way you see Lemon, the way he changes the inflection of the reading of O and the process of that realization that plays out, that goes from his brain to his face is just so much fun. I think, too, with Lemon, there is a fundamental decency to him. Even as he does questionable things or you wish he'd grow more of a backbone, you just always understand his predicament.

1:27:57Adam Kempenaar:And there's a part of you that's always rooting for him throughout this film. And this is what McLean has too, is that bedrock decency that doesn't make her, the performance doesn't make Fran seem naive or innocent.

1:28:17Josh Larsen:Both of those would have been boring and unreal. But McClain manages to communicate this bedrock decency that she shares in common with Baxter while also making her a real woman who is, you know, striving for that connection, as I discussed, making mistakes in doing it, making choices that, you know, we would say, oh, don't, don't do that. Yet also making us understand in the way she operates, just the way she operates the elevator, you know, and negotiates every interaction she has in that elevator is a negotiation that Fran balances by not, you know, maybe she should call out the bosses who are making sexist remarks, but the way she has to tiptoe around that.

1:29:07Josh Larsen:Yeah. Without. Or being actually manhandled at time. Exactly. Negotiating it, right? Yeah. That's exactly it, Adam. Like we recognize she also has a backbone, maybe more of a backbone than Baxter actually has in pushing back here and there. So that's an incredible performance as well.

1:29:25Adam Kempenaar:19. Watch your step.

1:29:29Josh Larsen:Oh man, watch your hands, Mr. Kirkby. I beg your pardon. One of these days, I'm going to shut these doors on you and 20 next. When I first wrote about the apartment, I don't know how long ago it was, but I described them both as good people who would make a great match if only they could extricate themselves from the sleaziness they become enmeshed in. And I think that's the appeal of these characters. And I was reading this morning, I don't know if you had a chance to see this, but our friends Scott Tobias and Keith Ficks.

1:29:57Adam Kempenaar:I didn't have a chance to read it, but I saw it appear in my inbox. I had to.

1:30:01Josh Larsen:This morning, they're doing a series on great films and today was the apartment. And I thought, okay, normally, you know, I don't want to have other critics in my head if I'm about to have a discussion, but I couldn't resist. I've written about the apartment so many times and we've talked about it on occasion. So, but it's interesting in regard to this description of Baxter and Fran making a great match. Here's Scott Tobias, how he described them. A heartbreakingly decent and accommodating man. That was earlier in the conversation. This is Scott and Keith going back and forth. Then later, Scott purposefully describes Fran as a heartbreakingly decent and accommodating woman.

1:30:40Josh Larsen:So I totally agree with that, obviously, but it's also the variations of that character that both Lemon and McClain provide. They are heartbreakingly decent and accommodating in very different ways, which goes back to my notion of watching it again. And Fran may be the one, even though she finds herself in the more dire position, who might have the stronger backbone.

1:31:05Adam Kempenaar:Yeah, I think she definitely does. And I don't know if it was an influence on her or Wilder or not. But Fellini's Knights of Cabiria had come out a few years before 1957. And that's one of my favorite performances. And there is a gamine-like quality to Fran, especially with the haircut that we find out that she got. Right? She got in response to her relationship and how it ended with Sheldrake. And there is that sadness, certainly brought on by that loneliness, but there's that spunkiness, all those things you're describing. And Wilder is so smart to often just point the camera at McClane in close-up.

1:31:44Adam Kempenaar:And you talked about the sleaziness. The moment when Sheldrake says, I got you a gift and offers her the$100 bill. Josh, I've seen this movie multiple times. I still groaned out loud. And I'll add this as well. It's partly the performance, but it's also the writing. And this is going to go back to the modern sensibility. It might be easy for some people, male or female, to watch this film and say, I don't know if I totally buy her infatuation with Sheldrake. She seems too smart for him. He's so clearly a snake. Like, could she really be that in love? Yes, she could. Unfortunately, it's a tale as old as time.

1:32:31Adam Kempenaar:And I think it is brought on by that overwhelming loneliness. And this gets back this sensibility, right? Gets back to the other aspect of the film. One of the other aspects of the film that I so love, which is the subtle subversiveness of it. And this is what made it progressive for its time. So it's still modern today. Wilder loved to puncture moral codes and play around with prevailing social conventions. And when I say it's subtly subversive, it's subtle in the sense that Wilder and Diamond don't really ask the audience to confront the tawdriness of this story. You just have to accept it. The entire plot is predicated on infidelity.

1:33:13Adam Kempenaar:This is 1960. There isn't an explicit condemnation of that behavior. It's in the air. It's in the corporate air. It's in the air. Even our hero, good old buddy boy Baxter, he's never disapproving of what these executives are doing, how they're exploiting these women or using these women. He's only mad. Why? Because they're inconveniencing him. He can't get into his place. He can't get a decent night's sleep. He has a cold. Other than the peripheral characters in Baxter's apartment building, everyone in the story is complicit in some way. Using or allowing themselves to be used. and he's essentially running a brothel.

1:33:50Adam Kempenaar:Really, he isn't taking a direct cut, but he's getting paid on the back end at work. He's providing the venue. I mean, they're kind of cheaping out on the booze. Exactly. That's what made me think of it, Josh. He's providing the venue, the booze, the snacks, the music, all the accoutrement. So, you know, Wilder just, he isn't wide-eyed about how the world works in 1960 or in 2025. I think that's why it still feels relevant today. And that's that screenplay. And I'll throw it back to you here. But that screenplay, this Oscar winning script by Wilder and Diamond, it's tapping in to this progressive for its time perspective and sensibility and what it gets so right about these lonely characters.

1:34:35Adam Kempenaar:but when it also is getting right structure and character and dialogue well it's also about when not to use dialogue what you can show us instead of telling us and sometimes what you show us while telling us what does it say about Baxter as a character who is constantly getting disappointed and in a way kind of reinforcing the idea of him not really having a backbone even but also reinforcing this notion of American commercialism that he gets, and I'm using these words very deliberately here, right? He gets turned on to watch grand hotel only to be sent to the cold shower of a message from the sponsors twice forget, you know, delayed gratification.

1:35:21Adam Kempenaar:It's such a good sequence. It's such a good scene. He just gives up. Right. And maybe, maybe my favorite bit that I had somehow never really paid attention to before the symmetry of the simple repeated gesture that does more to connect Fran and Baxter than any romantic dialogue ever could. How great is it that we get the moment at the Christmas party when Baxter has had too much to drink. She asks him how many drinks he's had. And he says only three, but he holds up four fingers. I'd love it later, later in the film when she is now recovering and she's in a delirious state from the drugs that she ingested and is trying to recover.

1:36:05Adam Kempenaar:And I don't remember exactly what the question is, but she holds up her fingers and she says three, but holds up four fingers, right? That's the kind of genius, those kinds of moments that you get those little bits that you get with Diamond and with Wilder. And I'll just give you one more. At the end, near the end, we see how much savvier Baxter has become. I think anyway, how better he seems to understand the system and how to navigate it. When Fran asks him in the lobby, if he's heading to the subway, is he going home? And he says, to tell you the truth, I have this heavy date for tonight. And when Fran leaves, he walks toward that woman that he gestured to, right?

1:36:45Adam Kempenaar:And then she, of course, goes the other way. He's just sort of playing the game, playing the system. He has this confidence now about him that he can exploit when he needs to. Again, showing us that through action, through behavior.

1:36:59Josh Larsen:Yeah, the whole thing is like clockwork. And yet despite that, despite the knowledge that every scene is connected to a scene, not only that follows, but one that's going to come, to your point about the fingers, the four fingers, that might come like 20, 30 minutes later. This is a movie that allows for discursions that work. And how about the sequence where Baxter, a disillusioned Baxter at this point, is drinking at a bar, drinking himself silly. And there's a woman across the bar doing the same. Hope Holiday plays this character. And they're mini romance, if you want to call it a romance. They're mini dalliance.

1:37:43Adam Kempenaar:It was the night before Christmas and all through the house. Not a creature was stirring. Nothing. No action.

1:37:54Josh Larsen:Dollsville. You married? No. Family? No. Night like this, it sort of spooks you to walk into an empty apartment. I said I had no family. I didn't say I had an empty apartment. that's a whole movie in its own and that is a billy wilder movie we never got right this woman where they end up kind of like anger flirting resentment flirting against other people with each other there's no sense that they're really attracted to each other right they're both pissed at someone else that's it and this moment this person allows them to express that and yet it It segues into this, yeah, romantic dancing to the point that they close the bar down.

1:38:45Josh Larsen:They have to be kicked out. And so that's just, you know, what does that say? Why is that there? Why does that not stick out as a sore thumb in this movie? I'm going to go back to loneliness. It's finding Baxter, who we know is lonely. And then it's finding this Hope Holiday character who is deeply, she's not just a joke here. because we've known at this point the depth of loneliness that the characters were rooting for experiencing. We transfer that to her as well. And she's funny. It's a great performance. It's a great bit, but it's also deeply moving. And I do just want to quickly go back to, you know, another plug for the reveal and quote Scott here, Tobias, one more time.

1:39:27Josh Larsen:He's talking about loneliness, but he's talking about it after the reveal to Baxter of Fran and Sheldrake's relationship. Okay. So, so when we have come to know that, and so has Baxter, Scott wrote, this is no longer just a screwball romantic comedy about Baxter frantically arranging his life around his boss's extracurricular activities and maybe finding some companionship for himself on the side. It now becomes a film about two characters in the depths of loneliness and despair, having to deal with the abundantly clear reality that they're on the lowest rung of the social ladder and they have been humiliated and exploited for it.

1:40:06Josh Larsen:So great stuff there from Scott in the reveal. And yeah, it captures all the levels we've been talking about, how this works as an emotional character study, but also a societal critique that never feels too heavy or like that's being forced upon the narrative at hand.

1:40:22Adam Kempenaar:Yeah. And you get those little touches that are also humorous, but at the same time add to that sense of despair, if you will, how hard she has to work to even get Baxter's attention, blowing the straws at him. Yeah, right. Exactly. And, you know, you're talking about when he discovers that she's with Sheldrake, the economy of the broken mirror from a screenplay standpoint, from a plot perspective, but also how it informs the sadness of Fran's character. When she says, I like it, it makes me look how I feel, which does reinforce. Scott did right about that for sure. supporting the idea that you know what she might do something really drastic yeah later in the film and you were talking about connections establishing the motif of the keys to the apartment into the washroom so that we're pleasantly surprised or pleasantly reassured depending on how you read it at the end when we discover that baxter tosses sheldrake yeah the washroom key and not his apartment key.

1:41:24Adam Kempenaar:Now, Wilder and Diamond, this is maybe the only thing I can come by in terms of a criticism. They might overdo it a little bit, as we heard in the clip at the top of the show. But adding wise to the end of so many things that he says, it works though in that it does show, it reveals that he is taking on this pattern of thinking through his manner of speaking. He is becoming executive material. This type of executive material because he is exactly. He's equivocating when he talks and he's adding wise to the end of everything he does. And the other thing that Wilder does, it's so great. And I've surely talked about this before because when Wilder comes up, this usually comes up and it's something he took from Lubitsch.

1:42:17Adam Kempenaar:And I think this is usually what he referred to as the Lubitsch touch, but Wilder liked to create opportunities for the audience to feel like they were one step ahead of the characters. So he always talked about it in terms of two plus two equals four. You give the audience two plus two, but you don't add it up for them. You let them figure out that it's four before the characters do. And it's hard obviously to put myself in the shoes of a first time viewer But I think an example of that is when Sheldrake gives him the Music Man tickets because he's meeting a woman. And then he asks Fran out and Fran can't go because she's meeting a man.

1:43:03Adam Kempenaar:Surely most audience members suspect that. Oh, no. What if Sheldrake is meeting Fran? Or at least it's a great possibility. we're putting that together before Baxter puts it together. And it's again, brilliant touches like that in the screenplay. And then the last, well, I've got one more favorite line I have to mention, but if we're going to talk about lines, it might not be on the level of your beloved, some like it hot with nobody's perfect, but shut up and deal is about as perfect. A final note as you can get, but in terms of perfect lines, here's my moment. Like if I'm going to point to just from a dialogue standpoint, point how great Diamond and Wilder could be.

1:43:46Adam Kempenaar:And it's funny. I went to IMDb to look up the quote and the quotes there, but what makes the quote so great, what makes the dialogue great isn't there. They've detached basically the punchline from the setup. And without the setup, the punchline's meaningless. The punchline is when Fran says to Sheldrake, they're in the apartment, it's Christmas Eve. And she says, when you're in love with a married man, you shouldn't wear mascara. Now I'm going to let Sam insert the scene here so everybody can hear it. How could I be so stupid? I think I would have learned by now. When you're in love with a married man, you shouldn't wear mascara.

1:44:30Adam Kempenaar:The brilliance of that writing is the dramatic buildup. Fran confronting the horrible truth about who Sheldrake is, who she is, how she has been duped. And you're sure that when she says, when you're in love with a married man, that the end of the phrase is going to be right, that you're going to get your heart broken or you should never get your hopes up. But no, she deflates it. That's the humor, the blending, right? Of that humor. She, she deflates it by saying she's stupid for wearing mascara because dating a married man will always leave you crying and you'll look like a mess, which is really funny because it's unexpected.

1:45:05Adam Kempenaar:It's a reversal of the expectation, but also it does express essentially the same thing saying that you'll ruin your mascara from crying is the same thing as saying you'll get your heart broken.

1:45:19Josh Larsen:Yeah. They give Fran so many great lines and McLean handles them like the gems that they are. She knows just how to deliver them. Another one, which stands out to me. It's another exchange to your point about you need the whole response, but she's describing Sheldrake as a taker, right? And Baxter is, this is where the male perspective comes in. Baxter is like, he doesn't quite understand what she means. So I think he questions her on that. Like, what is a taker? And she says, some people take, some people get took, but here's the killer. And they know they're getting took and there's nothing they can do about it.

1:45:58Josh Larsen:That's Fran Kubelik. It goes back to my point about her not being naive, not being so innocent that she doesn't know what's happening. This is the tragedy of her. This is what leads her to take as extreme steps as she does is her deep intelligence and awareness. And yet to her mind, helplessness in the face of it. Yeah. The helplessness. You're right. Yeah. It's another another just great exchange that mcclain um handles beautifully he's a taker what some people

1:46:28Adam Kempenaar:take some people get took and they know they're getting took and there's nothing they can do about it yeah i do have to make sure we talk about the visual style of the office you know the previous oh gosh it's brilliant her ben heard come out and i know that wilder had joked that creating the set for Consolidated Life and staging the scenes there was his chariot race because he had to use like up to 350 extras or something. But especially in the opening, the script is key with the narration. This is all in harmony with each other, right? All the numbers Baxter is reciting, the 31 ,259 employees, all those other than the small handful we meet, they're nameless, faceless cogs in the machine and they will be defined or their value will only be defined by the service they provide to the company and so then how does wilder visually represent that that incredible 19th floor set which is this feat of forced perspective the farther back the shot goes the desks the desks are actually smaller and smaller that's what creates the illusion The people are smaller and smaller.

1:47:43Adam Kempenaar:Like I think they cast some of them are actual children to help create that sense. And it just gives you this overwhelming sense that this floor might actually not be contained by walls, that it stretches on forever desks and people endlessly. And it, it gives you a feeling of, of total anonymity of impersonality of disconnection. And not only that, I was looking at this again today, Josh, the ceiling, the vertical lines on the ceiling. Oh, those lights. Right. And the lights that add to that feeling of it stretching on forever and how the camera is positioned in every shot. The ceiling is in every shot.

1:48:25Adam Kempenaar:And the way the set is constructed, and I'm sure the lens they're using as well, it all adds to this sense that the ceiling is almost pressing down on them. It's like there's no distance between their heads. Yeah. Yeah. So it feels compressed. It feels like they are being oppressed by their surrounding. And it's so effective.

1:48:46Josh Larsen:Those shots are something almost like a weird amalgamation of Kubrick and Jacques Tati with the use of – with the oppressiveness and the use of the entire frame, a large-scale, architecturally distinct sense of space. Yeah. And, and, you know, the other parts of the film too, it's not only those sequences, but the nighttime shots outside of Baxter's apartment and anywhere in the street really have them very much. Here's where, you know, double indemnity comes into play a film noir feel to them. There's subterfuge, there's betrayal, there's deception. And you can sense that in the nighttime street compositions you get here as well.

1:49:26Josh Larsen:So, yeah, I think this is one of those, you know, that people probably think of as a wordy classic, but it's also a visual classic, I would say.

1:49:36Adam Kempenaar:I want to close by at least highlighting, if people don't remember this, long-time listeners maybe might recall, that on episode 400, when we did the live show, when we did the top five things we learned from the movies, my number one was Bea Mensch from The Apartment. I don't know that I learned it. I don't know if you can ever fully learn it. You can try to the best of your ability. I'm trying every day. But the apartment did have an impact on me, that lesson from Dr. Dreyfus. And I do think there is a fundamental question that Wilder is posing to us here. Can you exist? And this is still a very relevant question, Josh, today.

1:50:23Can you exist in this America and retain your decency?

1:50:28Adam Kempenaar:can you be a mensch? Can you treat others and yourself with the respect that they deserve? Can you be a decent person? And not only is that just part and parcel of being a mensch, obviously, being a human being, as he says, but there are sort of echoes of it throughout the script, right? She mentions to Bud that when he thinks he's getting a promotion, that it couldn't happen to a nicer guy, that he's the only one who takes his hat off in the elevator. But, you know, we learned some things about Bud. We realized that maybe he isn't as decent a guy as he likes to think that he is. And Fran, when Fran stands him up, he says, I forgive you.

1:51:11Adam Kempenaar:And she says, you shouldn't. But he says, you know, when you're having a drink with one man, you can't just suddenly walk out on him because you have a date with another man. You did the only decent thing. So this is, I think this is the movie's preoccupation, this notion of decency and its possibilities. It's possibilities in this very difficult world we inhabit. Well, that's why it's a comedy.

1:51:35Josh Larsen:That's the comedy is that the movie sees the decency in Fran and Baxter, knows it's there and is hoping against hope that they'll find and embrace it and live into it. And then, you know, Wilder and Diamond behind the scenes arranging things so that they fall in place that they can step into that decency that we as viewers are hoping for as well.

1:52:00Adam Kempenaar:The Apartment is currently streaming on Prime Video and available via VOD. We expect most of you have seen it, so if you agree or disagree with our takes, we would love to hear your thoughts. Email us, feedback at filmspotting.net. That's where you can share any other comments about the show, because that is our show.

1:52:19Josh Larsen:You can find Adam and FilmSpotting on Instagram and Facebook, Letterboxd as well. He's at FilmSpotting. I'm at all those places as Larson on Film. We are independently produced and listener supported. You can support the show by joining the FilmSpotting family at FilmSpottingFamily.com. You can listen early and ad-free. You'll also get a weekly newsletter, monthly bonus episodes like our top five performances of the year so far, and of course, access to the entire show archive. If you're looking for show t-shirts or other merch, go to filmspotting.net slash shop.

1:52:54Adam Kempenaar:The all new Film Spotting shop. Thanks to everyone who has checked it out. In that Film Spotting archive, we have our Billy Wilder Marathon from 2010. We have a review of Double Indemnity from our Summer of Stanwyck Marathon. That's episode 889. Out on digital this weekend, a movie I'm sure both of us would like to check out, Jaws at 50, the definitive inside story. That's on Hulu and Disney+. In limited release, the new one from Gia Janka, the filmmaker behind Ash's Purist White and A Touch of Sin. It's called Caught by the Tides. In wide release, James Gunn's Superman. I know what Josh thinks of it.

1:53:36Adam Kempenaar:I'm going to have to find out what I think of it and see it for myself. We'll talk about it next week and we'll share our top five Superman moments.

1:53:44Josh Larsen:Film Spotted is produced by Golden Joe Dessau and Sam Van Halgren. Without Sam and Golden Joe, this show wouldn't go. Our production assistant is Sophie Kempinar. Special thanks to everyone at WBEZ Chicago. More information is available at WBEZ.org. For Film Spotted, I'm Josh Larson. And I'm Adam Kempinar. Thanks for listening.

1:54:04Adam Kempenaar:This conversation can serve no purpose anymore. Goodbye.

1:54:25Adam Kempenaar:Film Spotting is listener supported. Join the Film Spotting family at filmspottingfamily.com and get access to ad-free episodes, monthly bonus shows, our weekly newsletter, And for the first time, all in one place, the entire FilmSpotting archive going back to 2005. That's at FilmSpottingFamily.com.

1:54:45Josh Larsen:Panoply. Honey, Felipe sent another photo. From Argentina? How? With T-Mobile, of course. Mira, he's video calling us. Hola, familia. Did you get my photos?

1:54:58Adam Kempenaar:We did.

1:54:58Josh Larsen:They're so pretty.

1:55:00Adam Kempenaar:Here to share every moment with T-Mobile. Enjoy data roaming at no extra charge in 21 Latin American countries. Switch now on the T-Life app or T-Mobile.com slash connectate. Qualifying plan required not for extended international use. You must reset in the U.S. and primary usage must occur in our network. Visit T-Mobile.com.

1:55:18Josh Larsen:This episode is supported by FX's The Drop, a snowfall saga.

1:55:23Adam Kempenaar:Wanda and Leon are back, but this time they're chasing a different kind of legacy. As West Coast Rap begins to take over 90s Los Angeles, Wanda is betting on a new generation of artists. But in a city where every opportunity comes with a price, they'll have to decide what they're willing to risk to leave their mark. FX is the drop. Premieres September 8th on FX and Hulu. Some people use ChatGPT to answer questions. Others use it to get real work done. With ChatGPT work, you bring the goal. plus real inputs like briefs, notes, files, feedback, data, and project plans. It can help turn them into an analysis, tracker, deck outline, prototype, or workflow you can review and keep shaping.

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