9/11 at 3 miles an hour | The Battle of Trafalgar (Part 5/10)

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1:40welcome back to fin versus history i'm joined by horatio gould england expects for horatio nelson's finest hour today we are at trafalgar these might be my favorite costumes you've worn i feel fucking excellent this feels incredible i get it i get it i get it i hate the french yeah and i I'm going to fuck out a thing that walks into my path. I feel manly. Yeah. If you're a woman on land, you should be scared. If you're a Frenchman at sea, you should also be scared. You should be fucking scared. Yeah. I'm going to fuck you up on sea. And if you're a chubby woman who likes dancing, I'm going to get inside you.

2:16And I'm going to shake my ostrich feather at you like this. Very bird-like, it seems. It's very fashionable for men to act like the birds of the animal kingdom. That's sort of what they're going to like. The plume. Yes, the erotic plume. It's very much like the kind of mating dances. It seems to be playing a lot on that sort of stuff. I feel absolutely fantastic. As I said, part of the reason these are, you know, up there with the best wars is the aesthetic. It's just... Because they're fighting like they're not in costume, but they are in costume. Yeah, but they look like this. And, you know, Nelson's column would not quite be as inspiring in a monument if at the top there was a guy in just fucking World War I sort of muddy Glastonbury, 5th Day Glastonbury outfit.

2:56Yeah, yeah, yeah. this is what I think Americans think most British people dress down as on a Sunday this is Sunday it's dressed down yeah is it smart casual or it's okay lounge I'll come as lounge this is quite satisfying for people with stereotypes about Britain watching this right now I'll have a line then I'll get this on and just read the paper in my house really we should be podcasting with one arm yeah but I have been sort of I've been fitted into this by by our helper yeah so we get these costumes from the but yeah a team of borrowers yeah um so we we get this from the national theater right yes and they're kind of a bit i feel they're getting a bit sick of us almost because there's quite like they want it to be quite um noble what these outfits are used for because i imagine these are quite serious national theater plays about um maybe the crimes of the british empire and stuff oh yeah they didn't like us taking the um native american headdress wrestling it away yeah uh to be in in our defense you're the ones that made it stupidly big i mean it's an offensive headdress it's an accurate headdress well it's offensive i think it's cartoonish anyway we're at trafalgar to recap come on uh this is not uh gavin plumb's column this is nelson's column okay so trafalgar agincourt that's probably top two British wins.

4:17Three, two, and then you have the Falklands. Falklands. Trauga is the greatest naval victory until the Falklands. Yes. Yes, until the brave defence of our southern border. Really, these uniforms should have been used in the 1982 re... I mean, imagine the flying paedophile, Prince Andrew. In this. In a sea harrier, isn't it? We are dealing with probably... I mean, this is probably the height of British naval history. This doesn't get better than this until the Falklands. To recap, Napoleon is being cucked. Nelson be cucking. It's the Napoleonic cuck wars. Under Napoleon's code, you are a paedophile if you're attracted to women.

5:01Okay, that's just French stuff, right? Now, the emperor is dominating on land and has also invented a dish called chicken maringo. however can the elephant defeat the whale i'm reading from my wedding vows now let's get in to napoleon's ambitions all right he is dominated on land by 1805 britain stands alone again again must we always do things by ourselves is there no one else to fight with us um the parallels of world war ii and world war one are stark and they're not really talked about that much no Our economy gets entirely mobilized for war. We have a brave, rousing prime minister who does speech in the House of Commons and uses kind of...

5:46Pit the Younger. We should talk about Pit the Younger. Pit the Younger doesn't get talked about. He's probably one of the greatest prime ministers of all time. He's probably the greatest war prime minister apart from Churchill. Well, he had a Churchillian rhetoric, didn't he? He made these amazing speeches. And I think what you've got to understand is that at this point, you know, there'd been eight years of existential dread. Yeah, people are terrified. We were going to be invaded by the baby-eating French and the Bonaparte. Bonapartism was going to spread. Napoleon has conquering all on land, and by 1805, he is amassing over 100 ,000, perhaps 160 ,000 soldiers at Boulogne for mock invasion drills, and he is personally visiting the troops.

6:27Britain had been financing... So this is a build-up in the Rhineland. This is... He is... Well, it's after the panzers have stormed through, and it is after Dunkirk, and it's then... It's Operation Sea Lion. Right. Right, right. So he wants to invade England because if he invades England, England's got fuck all on land. Yeah. You know, our greatest heroes on land are just raw-dogging chubby princesses. So whenever sailors, be them French or Spanish, get washed up on the shoreline, there's always like old matrons of frying pans who do beat the shit out of them. Oh, but piss off! That is a consistent throughout British history.

7:01If an enemy does, you can trust whatever seas... Because I feel our seaside towns are always grimmer than anyone else's seaside towns. yes it's a tougher sort of person who lives on the sea in britain than let's say the mediterranean oh my god if you watch up you're like well at least it's on the beach it's gonna be a beach town no no it's gonna be it's gonna be a broken pier with maybe a couple of bawdy sort of cartoons yeah and then an old woman in a mobility scooter is gonna smack you with a rolling pin the mobility scooter panzer division will power across the pebble beach schnell chucking greg steak bakes at you and then you've got the seagull air support ah ah you know it's terrifying you know you don't want to be washed up in weymouth right you know you want to crash land you know in like in a in a norfolk or something yeah you want the sleepy in it yeah the sleepy the sea is friendly farmer yeah you do not want the i mean that's our line of defense really is the women with frying pans mobility scooters that you know are around the entire country our perimeter of mobility scooters Anyway, Napoleon is gathering his forces.

8:05England have fuck all on land. So all he has to do is seize control of the channel for maybe 36 hours, 48, to get his forces across. And then the Imperial Eagle will fly over London. However, in order to do that, he has to conquer the Royal Navy, which as we have been saying is at this point, it's, it's the greatest thing. It's the greatest thing in the world. Yeah. In the world. It's, it's, you know, there's no, there's no institution that is more cutting edge or technology, more modern, more modern than the Royal Navy. There is a panic in England about Napoleon building submarines, a Nautilus, right?

8:52A hot air balloon division trying to fly across. how would an early submarine actually have functioned hold your breath i guess so holding your breath we can take him his plan for uh defeating the royal navy is uh is fucking mad yeah he doesn't understand the sea no fundamentally no he's a land guy yeah so uh our old friend admiral villeneuve who um had basically been he'd kind of watched as nelson fucked up he's a war His whole life is a war cuck. This series is listed with cucks, okay? It's the Napoleonic cuck wars where Villeneuve had watched Nelson destroy his fleet at the Battle of the Nile, unable to do anything about it.

9:33Maybe he liked it a little bit. A little bit. He is a fascinating character because he's incredibly depressed. He knows he's going to get beaten. He's almost fatalistic about the whole thing in that Napoleon tells him his plan and he's like, there's no fucking way it's going to work. But this is before men were allowed to talk about their mental health, so he probably didn't know he was depressed. Well, Napoleon was doing mental health, though. Yeah, that's true. If your mental health guru is pushing you too hard, who do you talk to? It's a different time, you know. Yeah. Star Wars, The Mandalorian and Grogu is now streaming on Disney+.

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11:18They're made all season long. Shop Halloween decor now at Wayfair.com. That's W-A-Y-F-A-I-R dot com. Wayfair, every style, every home. The plan is insane, right? What Napoleon wants to do is he wants the French and, tragically, Spanish fleets, they've been allied together now, they're going to sail all the way across the Atlantic from their base in Toulon and they're going to lure British ships to follow them by making a sort of feint that they're going for their interests in the Caribbean, right? Step overs. Basically. It's the biggest step over in history which is crossing the entire Atlantic going to the Caribbean, right?

12:01And then as soon as the British get there they're going to somehow go really, really, really fast turn around really fast and go back and try and out sprint them to get back to the channel. Yeah, that's really stupid. To secure them for 48 hours. Spalatelli. Oh, I love this goal. Look at this. Yeah, that's the plan, basically. Oh, my days. That's a stupid goal. Incredible. But in reality, can you get David Dunn's step over, please? In reality, this is what actually happens. This is probably the fourth time we talk about this. It's a very, very opposite metaphor in history, right? This is what the French plan ends up being.

12:34Villeneuve, oh, no. So, David Dunn, say his name. English players should not do their boners. So, in March 1805, Admiral Villeneuve slips out of Toulon, the blockade. There's a lot of naval blockades which we've not got into because... It's too much. It is too much. Even for us, it's too much. It's a bit of a boner kill. We're not there yet. I'm not there yet. We're still, you know, you're in your 30s. Like, I'm in my 20s. Naval blockades, that's coming 40s, 50s. Listen, sex without any tools is fine for now. When I get into my 40s and 50s, I may need some additional help. You need a welding hat.

13:12I may need some naval blockade or some kind of choke device. Yeah. Nelson is called to action at the outbreak of war, and he has a very sad, tear-jerkingly sad departure from his mistress, Emma Hamilton. She's like, oh, don't go. Stay here and fuck me with my husband. and obviously his daughter Horatia. Sorry, his adopted daughter Horatia. And I believe this is when Fanny writes him a letter saying, please, I love you. Please come back. I'll forgive you everything. And he replies saying, this letter was opened by mistake and unread. Awesome. I didn't read this. I didn't read this. Just so you know, I opened it by mistake.

13:55I thought it was my other wife. I hate you. I saw Fanny and I got excited. Don't realise it was you. Oh, it's my wife. No. didn't read it just opened it by mistake go away so Nelson leaves home and he is tasked with finding the French fleet initially again we must say we don't know where there's no sat-nav we can hide we don't know where the fuck they're going so initially he goes to Egypt and just bothers around the Mediterranean before he realises oh fuck they've gone west wait so he does chase after them to the down the Atlantic yeah so it does the first part does work yeah yes but then somehow the ships are so much faster right that they are unable to make up that time and so nelson chases villner across the atlantic to the west indies in a three and a half thousand mile chase it's like test cricket benny hill right yeah right and they miss each other by a few days because of false intelligence uh all villner has managed to achieve they were meant to start attacking um maybe trinidad or jamaica uh but they didn't they just sort of docked there and then got cold feet and then they all got yellow fever right as well as cold feet i know it's a really devastating combination they all got chronically ill they all got lanyards right uh so they then uh they then come back but they start to come back but They're fucked.

15:20Meanwhile, Nelson, not a single British sailor among his 8 ,000-strong crew has died. It's kind of crazy. Because it's just, I guess it's just limes? They're just eating. It's the healthiest diet in the world, it's the Royal Navy's basically. At this point, yeah. I wouldn't say that now. No. No. Very, very dodgy diet they've got now. What? Well, I don't know. It's just probably tinned fish and bumming each other, isn't it? Wouldn't you say so, Charlie? I would say so. would you um does it ever get you going when you see the royal navy adverts where it's like i was born in crew oh they're good ads if they were wearing this i'd be more fired up you'd be the most susceptible to join the army i think charlie out of the three of us because i just think you're the most uh susceptible to advertising yeah um you're definitely not you're not the back you're not a strategy guy you're very much a cannon fodder sort of guy you throw me well i'm the berserker orc yeah yeah yeah your last roll of the dice yeah i don't know what he's gonna do i'd say first roll of the dice right get him out of the way okay he's dead now all right let's let's have a plan we've got a plan now um so they we've got a map up now i mean this is the this is the route they go absolutely insane pointless i mean pointless i mean thankfully this is carbon neutral travel run out for the boys i mean how how long does this take like two months it's a no carbon emissions.

16:44Yes, yes. So Greg Dunberg would love this. Well, it's a carbon neutral war. It can't be. Firing a cannon and a musket must be carbon. Must have a carbon. Can we find out what the carbon footprint of the Atlantic chase... Yeah, the Napoleonic Wars, please. Charlie, the carbon footprint of the whole Napoleonic Wars. Is this a war that the entire political spectrum could enjoy? It takes two and a half months to the chase. That's ridiculous. That is ridiculous, isn't it? Yeah. Might be able to equate Little task for you Little task for you How many barbecues Was the Napoleon Air Force No It said at the bottom there Look at the bottom of the air How many barbecues No no no How many barbecues Charlie go back Go back It says at the bottom Charlie it says at the bottom Lightly totalling Only a few million tonnes Of CO2 equivalent Okay wait Okay so work that out How many tonnes of CO2 Is a standard No get barbecues Out of your head Barbecues is irrelevant Is there no carbon in barbecue That's a separate question That I don't want to know The answer to Yes 5.8 kilograms Right Right so Okay let's find out how many barbecues the Napoleon Wars are then come on you know so 5.8 kilograms it's only hot on here and we're wearing a fucking naval costume find out how many barbecues is in the fucking 5 million tons oh Christ divided by 5.8 kilograms so the entire Napoleon Wars was 862 million 68 ,966 barbecues alright so 862 million barbecues right the CO2 emissions okay that's quite a lot is that good well if Napoleon if also Napoleon had drunk the entire Nile then the impact on the planet would be...

18:13Will that be a geological disaster? Because the matter of... It's the life of Egypt is the matter. Well, the ecosystem is the fertile... One of the most important arteries in the world. And Napoleon just drank it all. That would have been a war cry if Napoleon drank it all. Without the fact of the barbecues.

18:30You know what? You don't come in with answers. Sometimes you're put on the spot. Yeah. You know, I've got to hold my hands up and say I've never thought about that before. if napoleon had drunk the entire nile by himself would it have affected the amount of barbecues the napoleonic wars was i've never i've never thought in those terms yeah and um let us know the rest is history like they have people sending questions yeah and they do it this is this would be our version how many barbecues is charlie fun little side quest can you find out how many barbecues was the holocaust uh now um just to put things in perspective right yeah but whose perspective is it mine i'm now judging history by barbecues right anyway uh where the fuck are there's a two and a half month benny hill chase across the atlantic somehow i don't understand this i for is this what's in master and commander is this what this is about no not master commander is fictional and it's set during this time yeah but it's after nelson's died because they are looking for the french in it's based on stuff like this but it's a fictional yeah all of it's fictional right okay um so villeneuve starts heading back to europe uh anyway essentially villeneuve is he is very pessimistic he know he's terrified of nelson nelson's got him over a barrel yeah villeneuve is his his story is quite funny because it's pretty one note yeah there's not much depth to it it's just constantly fuck it i'm gonna fuck it and then he fucks it i'm not i'm gonna fuck it he's gonna get me how's he still got his job though i don't get it well this is the thing napoleon's about to take him off the whole battle happens because villner basically realizes that he's cooked yeah and he has one last chance to save his job right so villner knows that nelson's gonna get him oh he's gonna get me i know he's gonna oh no i'm gonna fuck it oh god come on it's quite relatable very relatable right so he keeps changing his mind he's like he's got him oh he's on oh he's on i can see him he's there fuck quicker oh oh no he's gonna get he's get me yeah so um he's terrified of nelson uh and so he's like oh where do we go do we go to cadiz which is on the south of spain do we go to portugal anyway eventually he had been ordered to go to towards brest uh which is on britney i think so he was meant to go straight up this oh yes it is this is sorry sorry charlie just got just to place cadiz for our listeners this is where they do this is actually i'll do a time place and what's this year what's the year 1805 so this is after uh francis drake um blew up all the ships in cadiz harbor yes called the singeing of of the king's bit as king of spain's beard and before the spanish carnival where as a tribute to stephen hawkins uh maybe i'd say 50 stephen spanish stephen hawkins went down the street all pretending to be him and then sang a song in spanish about the beauty of cadiz and that's part Part of what's so strange about it is it's not only lots of Stephen Hawkins.

21:32They're singing in Spanish. Are they doing the voice in Spanish? It's hard to tell because it is Spanish. Oh, hola. Can't make it stares. Have a look. Look, it's actually hard to tell. And then the song has nothing to do with Stephen Hawkins. It's about... I saw a translation. It was just about how beautiful it is in the city. Look, the tomato thing kind of makes sense. Right. But the running of the bull... The Spanish are doing weird shit on weekends. Yeah. It's in the voice. That's in the voice.

22:05I mean, it is brilliant. You've got...

22:12That's 100%. Is it ableist or is it just like fucked? Yeah, I mean, yeah, I would say it's... Is it ableist? Yeah. I don't know what it is. Can you find out why? I think they do it. It's a parade they do every year. And it's, they celebrate people in, in general, like notable people. They're doing Gavin Plum next year. They're doing Gavin Plum next year. And it's Gavin Plum. And they're also, it's just on a sofa. And they look the same, but they're just on the sofa. Are they raising awareness for ALS? Well, yeah, that is interesting. I mean, that's certainly, that's, that's going what this podcast is about.

22:50I guess so. We're giving visibility. We're raising awareness. The fact that everyone these days is disabled. yeah well you know what the Spanish do weird things on weekends don't they there's a tomato one there's the run after a bull what they should do is combine them where a bull chases 50 Stephen Hawkins and then you throw tomatoes at them I'd love to see that I would fucking love to see the rolling of the bull in Pamplona sign me up and then I will cut the ribbon on that ceremony love to say that anyway what have you found it would take roughly 50 to 100 Stephen Hawkins to defeat an average 1500 pound.

23:28No, it wouldn't. Incorrect. The bull would win. The bin would win. The bin would win? The bin would be very full of Stephen Hawkins. I mean, is there a number of Stephen Hawkins where they would just eventually tie the bull to exhaustion, I guess? Yeah, but then the bull would have a rest. What's Hawkins doing? Yeah. He's a snail. He can't get away. How's he, you know? I don't, yeah, I don't. What is Stephen Hawking's top speed? In nautical knots. Eight miles an hour, I think. Eight miles an hour. That's not even a milk flow. But a bull will easily gore. But it's quite a heavy chair. So I think if you're all pressing in.

24:11Apparently, the bull will easily gore and flip the first 10 or 20 wheelchairs. But once the number climbs past 50 or 100 Stephens, the physical space of the arena fills entirely. So the bull gets surrounded by Stephens. AI is amazing. There's no arena. There's no arena. It's a field. It's an empty field. No, he's imagining it in like a ball fight. No, it's not a spectator sport. That's horrific. No, you're in a street. No, you're not in a street. 50 to 100 Stevens in a street and then they surround it. It's like how bees will defeat their enemy by kind of, they enclose it and then heat their enemy up.

24:41Heat their enemy up? The bees will defeat their enemy by heating them up in a ball. Stephen Hawking will surround the ball. and then we've got so much meat in this episode this is the Battle of Trafalgar and we are we are talking about how many Stephen Hawking's it would take to defeat a bull and the answer is there would be no get to finish this get the video up of the recent of the guy who tried to who gets flipped by a bull have you seen that guy in America no America yeah the farmer who gets it's not a bull it's a bison or something yeah yeah this is it this is awesome so imagine you're Stephen Hawking right

25:26yeah that's pretty terrifying seeing it fuck up that tree so you know it's coming for you oh no here we go here we go I mean I mean that I mean come on Hawkins not Hawkins is not touching the ball I mean what's amazing about that anywhere where your head's here and then a second later your head's there and your feet are there that's just incredible yeah that's box office so Villeneuve is having a terrible time okay but yes he he he decides to go to the Stephen Hawking Festival. He goes, fuck me. I want to see this. I love Stephen Hawking, right? Even though he'd been originally ordered towards the channel because that was the whole plan.

26:01That was the whole point. The whole point was to lead them on a merry dance and then you buy yourself two days, less than two days to secure the channel. And you got distracted by Stephen Hawking's festival and get it. Sorry, I've got to go. Apparently they're doing 50 of them. They're doing the voice in Spanish. It's in Spanish. It's like the translation box got mixed up. I don't want to see that. Anyway, eventually the British fleet catch up with Villeneuve off Cape Finistere, which is in Portugal. There wasn't much of an action. Anyway, they get to Cadiz. And now Nelson basically blockades Cadiz.

26:31I think he maybe even goes home for a bit and then comes back. I don't know. Anyway, so we get to October where Villeneuve is running out of food because he's stuck in Cadiz, but there's no supplies. Right. So he needs, everyone knows he's going to need to go out at some point. And let's, once again, we need to know how many ships of the line are involved. I need to know this. I had a go at you last time. I always want to know how many ships of the line are involved at any moment. So Nelson, like Napoleon though, is always looking for a decisive conflict, right? An annihilation conflict. Yeah.

27:05He wants, because he knows if it's 1v1, he's going to win. Not 1v1. It's not. But most people who are trying to defeat Napoleon or Nelson, and they're just trying to avoid direct conflict at all times. Yes, because their whole goal is to be wiped out. So there are 33 French and Spanish ships of the line. Huge numbers because in their entire fleet, maybe there's 80, something like that. The British have 27 ships of the line, okay? They're outnumbered, just how we like it. We are underdogs. Right. In October, Villeneuve finally makes a run for it, okay? because Napoleon tells him that another admiral is going to come and replace him because he's such a scaredy cat.

27:46And he goes, well, I'll show him. Oh no, he's going to get me. And then they basically, they leave. And on the 21st of October, 1805, Nelson finally gets what he had spent months chasing the chance for a decisive confrontation. Okay. So Nelson had been in this sort of sort of unusually preoccupied with death before this battle uh he basically said i'm never going to see any of you again well he's hoping that i mean he hopes that every battle yeah yeah because he knows that his luck can't carry on forever because he can't just stand on the board you can't just stand highlighted shoot at me on the deck of your fucking flagship not being able to duck not allowed to duck yeah for hours as people shoot at you he is he is looking for this decisive confrontation but also i think he knows that his the tactics he's planning are kind of suicide yeah because what he's planning and we're going to get into naval tactics now okay so pack your spare pants here we go the allied ships the french and spanish are in the standard formation which is a line now what nelson is proposing and he's thought about this for months is that he will separate his ship's line into two columns and they will essentially 9-11 the French and Spanish line and so they will drive into it at a perpendicular angle and separate the superior forces into three more manageable sections.

29:21They're going to deal with the rear and the centre first because the headwind sorry, I'm cooking, the headwind will take the vanguard forward meaning that it's impossible for them to retreat and help out the rear and the center. But also fundamentally, this is the main thing I understand about naval tactics is you want to rake them. Do you know what being raked is? I've been raked a few times in my life. I've been gang raked a few times in my life. What's raking? Raking a ship is when, you know, standard warfare, you both have your cannons broadside and you're firing at each other, right? Yeah.

29:55But if you rake it, it means that you are shooting nose to tail, right? And it's far more damage nose to tail because you're firing cannonballs from the top of the ship to the back of the ship, which is causing so much more damage than through the side of the ship. Does that make sense? As in you're still firing board side, but the other ship is on an angle. Yes. If it's on an angle, if you're shooting at the front of the ship and you're just moving your cannons, the balls are flying through the entire, through the mast, the rigging. There's so much more damage. Yes, because you're not just going through the ship.

30:24With this whole idea, as he 9-11s them, what is amazing about it is he's risking himself getting raked for the first 20 minutes, 25 minutes. Maybe more than that. Insane suicidal charge. They see each other coming for ages. So you're completely vulnerable for the beginning. But as soon as you manage to go into their columns, that means that you can either side endlessly rake all of their ships. You can gang rake them, basically. They got gang raked. Both fronts. I mean, the French and Spanish get gang raked in Trafalgar. And that's why we have that square. I think Trafalgar Square is the best name than Gang Rake Square, personally.