A Knight in Shining Shaun-the-Sheep-T-Shirt | The Thai Cave Rescue (Part 1)

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1:25welcome back to fin versus history joining me is ratio gold It's an underwater hum, actually. Well, yes, because this, listeners, viewers, this is one of the greatest things that's ever happened. This is the big one, I'd say. I'm fired up for this. I've been fired up for this from the start. I've been trying to get this in the calendar for months. This is an academic discussion and a deep dive, dive being the opposite word, on the Thai cave rescue of 2018. Fuck me. I mean, look, 2018, that's arguably too early to be history. Well, I think a lot of our viewers will not like that we're doing something from 2018 because they will remember how shit their lives were in 2018.

2:05They like escapism. Yes. I could have been someone else in 1943. Yes. But in 2018, you were still a fat guy. Very real. Yeah. You were still a comic book guy. You were still 3D printing swords. Yeah. And you still were a virgin. But this is a great story for the 3D printing swords, the virgin, the autist. this is a great tale of overcoming your shit personality and becoming one of the great heroes no no no they haven't overcome it they've just weaponised weaponised they've used in your shit personality yeah it's the one time where you were the centre of attention yeah and rightly so and rightly so rightly so we must reiterate this is one of the most heroic things that's ever happened and it's fascinating because you think about I think this will be seen as like big history I think it's underrated a long time to come there was the film there was a documentary but I feel it's not part of the, I don't know, societal vernacular.

2:57It's because it's too recent for us to, you know, we don't even really know how COVID will be remembered. Sure. Will COVID be remembered like Spanish flu, where it's like, who gives a fuck? I mean, tens of millions of people died, but the Spanish flu was just a sort of expansion pact of World War I. Like who cares? Yeah, right. Who cares? You know, like millions of people died. Yeah. But ultimately you're like, COVID may be the same thing. similar if what's happening now is world war three or whatever you know um but this this is like the titanic except it's in an era where technology has advanced that they actually saved people yeah you know it's not a disaster yes it's a victory it's a victory but it's also i guess what i like there's that ron howard film have you seen the film they made of it i've seen all the films yeah and what i liked about the film is it had very little style to it it was not they did not have any cinematic flares there wasn't this rich score no it was just trying to make it look as close to what happened as possible which was because you right then okay you don't need any other ingredients no because if someone wrote this story you'd think it was ridiculous this is a mission impossible script wouldn't come up with something like this the fact the the main thing you have to get across is the fact that this all happened this is absolutely mental this is francis bourgeois as Ethan Hunt.

4:16This is Francis. Wow. What came across watching all the stuff about it is it's like the British dad as a thing that needs to be has been stuck in its cage for so long. Since the Falklands. Since the Falklands. Right. That was one of the last times that they got a run out and it just feels like such a caged animal. You know, awkward at Christmas going off to the shed. There's nowhere to run free. It's like going to it's like when you see like a, you know, like killer whales sometimes in shopping malls. You know, have you seen, this is what their life is like. But suddenly, like free willy. Yeah.

4:50They are set free. Normal life is like a zoo. And you're sad that these great beasts are locked up. And then suddenly, Rick Stanton is let out into his element. Rick and John. We all know Ricks and Johns. They're everywhere. I'm related to some Ricks and Johns. Of course. My Uncle Paul is a Rick. Yeah. My Uncle John and just will not leave a study. Will not leave a study. And he's apparently working. Fucking hell. Imagine if he got the opportunity to save 40 Thai boys. Oh my God, incredible. Absolutely incredible. I genuinely find it quite moving because I guess you know all these men and these men, they never cover themselves in glory in any conversation.

5:29But also I do think it's slightly eerie how in Britain, you have every generation, every 40 years, you have a moment like this, Dunkirk, the Falklands this is the third part in that story yes it is and they are getting less impressive yes they are getting less impressive yes well this is hugely impressive they are getting smaller in scale smaller in scale I think is what I'd say but this is our generations Dunkirk our generations Port Stanley or whatever the Falklands one was the Thai Cave Rescue is a beacon for it's men to hold on to yeah when their lives are falling apart around them one of the greatest moments of the documentary the National Graphic documentary which I watched last night again is when uh rick stanton who we'll get into is asked um do you feel that your uh dangerous hobby has made your relationships more difficult and he goes uh well well just because something looks dangerous doesn't mean it's in a dangerous way but yes no i'm crushingly lonely because he he always has like there's the rick's the most autistic one yeah yeah and then there's step down with John.

6:39John has a family, has kids, he has other lives. He's still fucking riddled with the stuff. Yeah. But Rick is the fucking elephant's foot in the Schnabel core of the British autistic dad. He should be, he's contained by a massive sarcophagus normally. His autism is too powerful. We need to put a massive shield on him. And he's the one who really just likes. Well, as we'll find, only someone that's autistic would come up with the plan that he comes up with. Anyway. And I don't think he can see this at all. He's so autistic, it doesn't even seem that heroic to him. No. This is just like... It's just what I had to do.

7:12Obviously, yeah. It's simple. So let's get into the summer of 2018. The World Cup is on. The World Cup in Russia. Is it on during the... Yes, it is on during. Let's try and place this. I believe... Well, the actual... They get stuck, the boys, get stuck on the 23rd of June 2018. So I guess you could place this with... Do you want to place this with two World Cup games? Yes. Now, I think it's before Japan beat Belgium. Did Japan beat Belgium in 2018? South Korea beat Germany. Japan did very well in 2018, I think. I hope that you're not thinking of South Korea. Belgium beat Japan. They lost. So it's before Belgium beat Japan after extra time.

7:51And it's after Harry Kane scores the worst hat-trick in World Cup history? Yes, it definitely is. Definitely is after that. So that's 6-0 versus Panama. It's before England beat Colombia in the penalty shootout. Lingard, I think, shoots against the back of Cain's heel and it goes in and then he scores two pens. So yeah, we remember this is when the England penalty curse was broken. It's a very superstitious time. Yeah. Because the superstition runs through this story, Thai cave rescue. So let's get into the cave system, okay? What do you think, us breaking the penalty curse, do you think we've got the curse maybe for crimes of the past and there's like a haunting thing that, you know, you had this great empire but now you must be cursed with failing at penalty shootout.

8:31and only if you send two Achilles, two heroes who can redeem you. And maybe this is the British redemption that breaks the curse. Yeah, well, I think so. What day are the boys' feed? What day are the boys' feed? It will be early July, won't it? 10th of July, which is maybe they all get out. Yeah. And then the curse is broken on the 3rd of July. Okay, so it's all... When are the boys found? They're found like 20... 2nd of July. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh God. Oh!

9:04Britain, Gareth Southgate is connected to the story. The penalty curse breaks. Yeah. Mere hours with the time difference. Yeah. As, as the boys are discovered in the cave system. As John finds the boys. This is a British, this is one of the, this is probably the greatest thing that Britain has done. Since. It's up there. And I think it needs to be considered in the pantheon. Yes, 100%. Yeah. 100%, right. It's navel as well. It's navel. It's autism. It's dads. It's gone. Right. So it's also, I must say, that it's a sexual fantasy of my wife's, that she has 12 Thai boys stuck in her pussy. And you have to get them out.

9:47And only I am capable of getting them out. So I have a hard hat and some ropes and a torch. It's too wet down there, the monsoons. season has started. We must get out. Why are the pumps not working? Because when women, when they get married, they find... I mean, that's irresistible. They find competence sexy. You don't understand this. When you're watching the Manosphere doc and all that stuff, young men think that women are attracted to, you know, muscles and peacockishness. Yeah. But that's not what they're attracted to. They're attracted to getting the job done. Even if it means no eye contact?

10:25I got the job done, Sarah! One of the rescuers, generally, until he was 20, is I was fucking over there. Yeah, it was a tough upbringing, but it was worth it. Fall has never looked or tasted this good. Sweet Green's fall harvest menu is back, with seasonal favorites dressed to impress and made to be devoured. Warm roasted sweet potatoes, crisp apples, maple glazed Brussels, and crave-worthy flavors in the autumn harvest bowl, maple glazed salmon plate, and roasted bacon Brussels side. the season's most desirable menu has returned to Sweetgreen, featuring Fall's best dressed. Make your move. Order on the Sweetgreen app.

11:06You matched on Hinge. You're vibing. Then her energy completely changes. What do you do? I'm Raven Smith, and I wrote and read a real love story about this exact sitch. Listen to the free audiobook now. This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Listening to this podcast instead of doom scrolling? Smart move. Another smart move? Getting help from one of State Farm's 19 ,000 local agents when you choose to bundle home and auto. Bundling. Just another way to save with the personal price plan. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amount of discounts and savings, and eligibility vary by state.

11:46The drama begins towards the end of June 2018 in the Tam Luang Nang Nong cave system. It's a six-mile cave system on the Thai-Myanmar border. Because around that area is the biggest cave systems in the world. Yes. This is, I think, the fourth biggest cave system in Thailand. Now, it's named after a mythical princess, and the mountains resemble a sleeping lady. And this is all part of, you know, the Thais will tell this story through the mythology of it, which is that years ago, a princess and a king fell out, and a princess fell asleep, and that's her mountains, and she's pregnant. and I guess the cave system is her vag.

12:25It must be. Or her arsehole. Or her arsehole. One of the two. What is it, Charlie? The size of the average human farm is five to six inches. Okay, so the only way this will be relevant is, okay, you've done it. The length of the cave, the Tamarang non-cave system, is 405 ,512 inches, meaning that within the cave system, you can fit 81 ,102 human bums. When you say bums, do you mean the actual... The rectum. Yeah. You mean the actual cavern? The actual rectal cavern. The actual rectum length. So, okay, now work out how long the journey that they make to the boys is and back, and then work out how many human bums they go in and out.

13:11Okay, we'll do it. But you can just put a pin in that for now. Yeah. All right? That's something for you to keep busy while we get into it. So, yes, The mythical princess had fell in love with a stable boy, I think, which the king had then cursed her because you can't do that. You can't be falling in love with a stable boy. So then she's asleep, right? And this cave system, I guess it's her perm, I suppose. That's something we don't really talk about in the mythology. It's not a perm, it's a cave. It's a cave system. It's one of the fourths of the world. Anyway. And there is this team of, a young team of footballers, the wild boars.

13:48the age between 11 and 17 which I don't I mean for the British football system I'm not really sure how that works anyway but this is far deep north northern Thailand this is right on the border with Myanmar so this is a different Thailand to the sort of sex tourist southern I imagine this is much more rustic much more like traditional Thailand deep in the jungle it's away from the coasts yes yeah there's no tubing yeah no this is not a touristy area apart from the caving no there's no ping pong shows it's more of a kind of mystical you'd say a less globalised more authentic Thailand perhaps so now the players were playing football nearby and they quite often would go into the caves for like team initiation ceremonies and stuff like when Charlie put a pool ball in his bum initiation ceremony I don't know if Thai have that kind of culture though I imagine it's more like what are you talking about?

14:41Ping pong shows? that's not initiation though is it? that's just entertainment so there's a different we don't have an entertainment show where private school boys put fucking pool balls in their mouth and we go that's brilliant no but I suppose I don't know how mystical Charlie's initiation sound was where he put a pool ball that had been in his friend's bum in his mouth no I'm just taking a swing here so the monsoon rains normally happen in July but unexpectedly they happen a bit earlier and so while the boys are in the cave celebrating one of their birthdays. Which one's birthday? It is called Knight.

15:21We've got the names up here and there are sort of English nicknames. Titan, McDon and Pong. Mark, Turn, Bew, Dull, Note and Nick. And T, Knight and Acker. We could have a run up at some of these but it's all Colin Down the Stairs stuff really. Rattle through the talent. Do you want to have a go? Yeah, okay, here we go. Quick. Just for listeners, this is me, after my wife's left me, just in a fit of rage, throwing all my kitchen implements down the stairs.

16:07So that's him doing the head of the team, didn't he? Yeah, and take the kids as well, will you? That's doing a roll call At the beginning of a training session right? Attendance roll call Or it's a Steel pan shelf collapsing in an industrial kitchen You take a pick Saturday 23rd of June They're in the cave They're celebrating one of their birthdays And rising floodwaters block the exit Meaning the team have to go deeper and deeper Into the princess's arse So coach he is the main coach who has presumably been cleaning like putting like cones away or something and he finds all these abandoned bikes and bags at the entrance so he's the one that goes okay shit the boys are stuck inside so he tells the police I think or he goes to local officials and the families launch initial search efforts but the rain is pouring down at this point and it's hard to we must stress like monsoon rain goes on for months.

17:16Yeah, it's a whole season. It's a whole season of just it pissing you down. And it's not something that, you know, British people feel very attached to rain. It's biblical. It is biblical. It's not a bit shit. No. Here, rain is just a bit shit. You're getting soaked through. Luckily, there is already a British artist on site. Now, what's he doing in Thailand? What's he doing in Thailand? What's he doing in Thailand? I don't know. I mean... It's tough, isn't it? Because if you're a British middle-aged man in Thailand, everyone just assumes you're there because to get easy nookie. And he might just love, he might just love, I guess, geological caves.

17:50Yes. As opposed to lady boys caves. Vaginal caves. But he's, well, we don't know. Can't a man explore both? Is he there with his wife? I don't know. He's suspicious. He has a Thai girlfriend, I think. Okay, yeah, it's a bit, the less said about Vern, the better, I think. But what is good is that what's interesting about this moment is verne is someone who's still a cave specialist um he's an autistic british dad but he sees the scale of this and is like oh my god we need a bigger autist yeah that's what i love about this yeah verne's on site yeah but even he knows he does not have the powers yeah so but so he has mapped the cave system uh for the like national park there's always a bigger autist yeah yeah exactly we're gonna need a bigger autist so he he has mapped the cave system for the national park so he's actually which you're like okay that's pretty autistic yeah he's gone he's gone further he's gone further than any other diver has yeah uh and we should just take a minute to explain what this diet kind of diving is it's uh it's underwater so i think let's before we talk about underwater diving let's just talk about caving because it's basically already which is mainly white people do this because it seems to be like a problem with white people's brains yeah they have to put themselves in danger because they have so much privilege in their life i imagine yeah well it attracts marathons etc black people aren't doing this no no no and i don't want to meet the person who is because what's gone on there but this feels like caving in itself is already the maddest thing you can do yeah i see those tiktoks of like someone with a GoPro.

19:27And he's loving it. He's freezing in. Yeah, I don't know where this leads, actually. We already talked about the Nutty Putty incident where someone took a wrong turn and then was upside down for 38 hours and then died. Where was Rick Stanton for the Nutty Putty incident? Where was he? So there's a caving community which is already a very niche, specific, rare thing for anyone to want to do. Yeah. And then there's people who are like, caving's too boring. And then they're like, well, let's do all of that. It's already the most terrifying, dangerous thing. Stressful, yeah. but let's do it underwater.

19:57Let's fill that cave with water. It's like when dads get into cycling with the Lycra and you keep going further and further. And then they make the shoes, the clippy shoes. Then it's the caving. You know, it's skiing, caving, underwater. Like you keep going. Underwater caving, it's such a rare skill and it's such a small community. There's a moment in the documentary where you see they're asking the cave divers what they like about caving. And it's kind of beautiful because they go, well, when it's just me in the caves, no one's telling me what to do. I don't have to think about what people expect from me.

20:35It's just me in the cave. Yeah. And then they're cutting that interview footage against B-roll of them going, like scraping their face along a cave with like mud. It's beautiful. It's peace. My mind's at rest. But what's amazing about seeing him cave is just how at peace he is the whole, he's doing the most terrified thing and it's just flow state complete flow state but what's fascinating is that so if you panic when you're caving that means death yeah so the sheer amount of autism you have to have where caving is calm and a woman saying hello is death like eye contact is a panic attack which is death apparently they had if there was a woman in that cave system who said hello and he didn't know her he would die in that cave no matter how good it came they measured his heart rate during it really and apparently it was like it was completely not like there was not one change didn't touch the sides didn't touch the sides no boring boring I'm bored but when one of the mothers yeah one of the mothers of the children came and hugged me afterwards the heart rate oh fuck no yeah no on the 21st to 25th of June there is a British diver called Vern Unsworth Vern as you said has mapped the system yeah and he very quickly understands the seriousness us of this situation.

21:55Okay. He's the tip of the iceberg of British autism. You don't need to go right to the bottom. I'm not, even I'm not capable. And what's hilarious, so there are Navy SEALs that are struggling with the murky water and the poor maps. Okay. Just for scale, thank you, Charlie, you could fit the town of Burford inside the cave system. Have you been to Burford? Yes, it's very near where I am. That's where the crocodiles of the world are. Yeah. That's near where me and Charlie grew up. Mrs. Bumble's bakery. Yep. The garden centre. Burford Garden Centre is one of the seven wonders of the world in Britain it's astonishing okay Burford Garden Centre but you can fit all of Burford Garden Centre in I'm not sure Burford Garden Centre is huge if there were 12 Thai boys stuck in Burford Garden Centre I'm not sure even Burnham could get them out I mean it's massive church there's a big church yes anyway you can fit the town of Burford inside okay and how many men's arseholes is Burford okay Charlie that's another thing for you to be going on with.

22:53Thank you very much. So, the Navy Seals, you know, this is the best of the best of the Ties. Yeah. They're struggling. These are Alpha Chans. These are the Ties Alpha Chans. They're heroes, but they are guys, they get too much pussy, these guys. Yeah, exactly. This is the mistake. This is what I love about this story, is no matter how brave, these guys are Tom Cruise, Mission Impossible, the bravest guys in Thailand. It's not for them. It doesn't matter. You're too ripped and sexy. You're too good at speaking to women. You're shagging too much. This is not for you. Move over. I'll take charge.

23:26So Vern Unsworth, he writes, he's basically saying, I know that you're highly trained military men, but the job's too big. And he then writes a handwritten note to the government minister in charge of maybe sports or the area, whoever the first government official is at the time. He writes his handwritten note with like six names. These are the best British cave divers in the world. It's like a heist film. Yeah, it is. you son of a bitch I'm in yeah just when I thought I was out you dragged me back in but it wouldn't be like that it would be like yeah I'll do it I'll do it brilliant okay so this is the A team but the A stands for autism if you can find them they'll be on a train platform you need the A team he says these are the best cave divers in the world or rather he says I need these men and he says Rick Stanton brackets it's the best cave diver in the world.

24:22Because there's like, it's got the biggest caving community in the world as in Britain. It's in the north of England. There's a council of cave divers, the British Council of Cave Divers, which is a slur. Yeah. And what is it? Because I think there's a lot of underwater caves in the north of England. No, in the southwest, Wookiee Hole and all that. Wookiee Hole and that sort of stuff. Yeah. But I do just think there's a cultural thing. Is it the love of hobbies? Is it like that there's so many of them are concentrated in Britain? It's also, we're an island. Yeah. Okay, we don't have Laban's realm.

24:51So when men want to get away from their wives, they have to go into the ground. Right, yeah, that's true, yeah. I'm going away, where are you going? I'm down, I have to go down. Yes, Charlie? The Tanner Burford is equivalent to 1 ,557 ,753 ,116 human bums. No, it's inches. Yeah, but that's the bums. A bum's an inch. I've divided it by the number of bums. that is the number of that is the number of 1.5 billion bum holes is Burford yeah so the whole country must be staggering the amount of assholes but again it's flat rather than it's not a challenge I think all the bums are kind of facing skyward yeah so if you if you opened a bum and like peeled it open and laid it square bum like square mile square bum yeah yeah square bum okay thank you yeah so Verne makes this list meanwhile the seals are trying to pump water out of the cave because it's raining a lot yeah it's chucking it it's chucking it down okay so the international response people send equipment rescuers arrive engineers are trying to divert the water from the mountain and this sort of town kind of this sort of town forms around the base of the mountain sort of like media village sort of thing it goes around the world yeah this story so the British cave divers arrive on the 27th of June.

26:18Such a good photo. And there was an amazing photo where we're looking at now. They were asked to take a photo that apparently at the airport they had a sign saying, you know, when you're being picked up by a car, the best cave divers in the world. Really? And then they're like, well, that'll be us, I guess. And they're made to take a photo and we're looking at it now and it's two Thai men with three of the most awkward looking men I've ever seen in my life. You've got, is Robert Harper's on the left in the red. You've then got John the Lantern and you've got Rick Stanton the goat. These guys live in a mountain warehouse.

26:54Mountain warehouse was built for these men. Yeah. Okay. These men will have several pockets on their shorts. Yes. Is it waterproof? Yeah. As I was going to put it on if it's not waterproof. They will be wearing sensible shoes at all times. Yeah. They will... Good support. Lumber support. Yeah. They will have their keys attached to a big climbing ring. Which you can pull like that. Which you can pull and snap back like that. They have waterproof matches. They have waterproof matches. When you're camping in case it starts raining. Yeah. Rick has genuinely... Rick Stanton. Rick Stanton. He's the best.

27:31Rick Stanton. It's hard, yeah. I mean, I think, is he Colin Farrell in the remake? Is he Colin Farrell? Yeah, well, no, it's Vegan Mortensen is Rick Stanton. Oh, Vegan Mortensen. And he does an amazing job. Aragon plays Rick Stanton beautifully. Beautifully. But again, if you've just seen that film, what's interesting about this is that when this was happening, just after the boys are rescued, there was a massive bidding war between Disney, Netflix, and maybe HBO. And they all got rights to different versions of the story. So someone got the rights to the documentary. Someone got the rights to the feature film.

28:08Because everyone's understood at this moment that this is a historic thing. For sure. Rick Stanton is a firefighter, an ex-firefighter of 25 years. And actually, this is an incredible bit of the story. He struggled with relationships. He surprised me. He, through one of the other cave diving maids, he had met a Thai woman on holiday who's having a holiday in Britain. I think she's a nurse. She comes over. They have this whirlwind romance of two weeks. When was this? Her name is Amp Bangabong.

28:46somehow he meets her in 2018 okay following the rest no no no no no no no no she's a nurse right she's on holiday has a whirlwind romance with rick okay yeah and then um you know they there's like photos of them he takes a kayaking yeah because this is the kind of man's whirlwind yeah on a date he's like well we have to do something outdoorsy yeah yeah because if he's trapped in a cage talking to a woman it's over. Yeah. You'll have a cardiac arrest. Panic on a date is death. So he takes her kayaking. There's photos of that. And then in the documentary, they say that, you know, she falls in love with him in this two weeks.

29:26She then gets on a plane back to Thailand, back to Chiang Mai, and she goes back to her village. Which is near the caves. She arrives as the media circus is kicking off. Fuck. And she's like, sorry, there's 12 Thai boys trapped in a cave. And I've just had a whirlwind romance with a cave diver. Yeah. And so she... Oh, does she help link the two? No. Vern's got that covered. Vern set up the autism bat signal. Stanton, you're needed. But she... But just... It's just a kind of coincidence. Again, it's a spooky thing. Southgate's in his waistcoat breaking the penalty curse. You know, Rick Stanton has kissed a woman for the first time.