In short
Part 1 of a biography/discussion of British officer General Gordon, focusing on his early life and rise through the Crimean War, then his postings in China during the Second Opium War and the Taiping Rebellion, including his discipline, moral principles, and later conflicts with allies.
Guests
Ratio Gould and Charlie (co-hosts). They discuss Gordon’s life and also debate related historical framing (British imperialism, opium wars), plus modern analogies and slang.
Key claims
Gordon is portrayed as a “moral certainty” Victorian imperial hero whose certainty is “fragmented” by anti-colonial resistance and messy realities. The episode argues his sexuality is treated as “non-offending” for the era (he “sheathes” it). It also claims British involvement in China functioned like a cartel (opium-for-silver), and that Gordon regrets the burning of the Old Summer Palace.
Notable examples
Crimean War operations near Balaclava (including a night engineering task); Gordon’s participation in the Old Summer Palace destruction; command of the “Ever-Victorious Army” context in Jiangsu (1863); the siege/capture of Suzhou (Dec 5, 1863) with looting/atrocities, Gordon’s attempted guarantees, and the execution of Taiping leaders despite surrender terms.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOThe Legacy of Gordon of Khartoum
1:46 to 3:14
Discussion about General Gordon and his impact on British history.
Gordon's Life and Character
3:14 to 5:46
An exploration of Gordon's life, background, and personality traits.
“But yeah, so it's sort of like a hopeless Bond where he's painted as a hero back home, but in every battle he loses and then much braver people accidentally get killed.”
Cultural Reflections on Language
5:46 to 7:32
Conversation about Victorian slang and its implications on gender.
“He goes around the empire as postings and then he comes back to Woolwich and he sort of joins them as like an officer cadet.”
Societal Norms and Their Challenges
7:32 to 13:01
Digression into the complexities of social interactions and societal norms.
“The end of empire starts when Gordon dies at Khartoum.”
Societal Norms and Their Challenges
13:07 to 14:00
Digression into the complexities of social interactions and societal norms.
“Let's get back to basics, which is poor people bringing you food.”
The Meal Debate and Portion Control
14:00 to 14:59
Discussion about food choices and portion control for men.
Introducing Gordon and His Character Traits
15:07 to 17:36
Exploration of General Gordon's personality, life, and experiences.
“off your first box thrive love love so gordon is a he's a he's a man of the age sure but he's uh he's cheeky he's angry he's having tantrums uh in 18 and angry is a is a wild combo yes to be a Cheeky angry man.”
The Crimean War and Gordon's Eagerness to Fight
17:36 to 19:26
Gordon's motivations during the Crimean War and his desire for action.
“Now, the Crimean War, this is part of the great game.”
Gordon's Personal Struggles and Identity
19:26 to 21:46
Discussion of Gordon's sexuality and personal conflicts during his life.
“where British troops, lacking proper winter gear, wore hand-knitted face coverings to protect themselves from extreme...”
Gordon's Military Competence Amidst Chaos
21:46 to 24:24
Gordon's leadership during military operations and his calm under fire.
“But he makes peace with God in a very modern Protestant way, right?”
Show all 29 chapters
Gordon's Reputation and Nickname
24:24 to 25:32
Insight into how Gordon earned the nickname 'Chinese Gordon' and its context.
“So he then, after his delights in the Crimean War, he's seen action.”
Opium Wars and British Imperialism
25:32 to 28:00
Discussion on the Opium Wars and their implications for British history.
“We made a drug epidemic to make a market.”
Gordon's Boredom and War Office
28:00 to 28:38
Gordon expresses his yearning for adventure and enlistment in the British military.
The Second Opium War
28:38 to 29:29
Discussion on Gordon's posting to China during the Second Opium War and the consequences of the war.
“He gets posted during the Second Opium War.”
Destruction of the Summer Palace
29:29 to 30:24
Exploration of the burning of the Summer Palace and its symbolism in Chinese history.
“Because they made a new Summer Palace, wasn't it?”
The Taiping Rebellion
30:24 to 31:21
Introduction to the Taiping Rebellion and its significance in historical context.
The Millenarian Beliefs of Taiping
31:21 to 32:23
Discussion on the beliefs surrounding the Taiping Rebellion and its leader.
Gordon's Military Engagement
32:23 to 33:54
Gordon's role in combating the Taiping forces and the structure of the Ever-Victorious Army.
“So it was all like a mess of independent armies.”
The Character of Henry Berger
33:54 to 35:08
Exploration of Henry Berger's character as the leader of the Ever-Victorious Army.
“I don't know if it's a translation thing.”
Racism and Historical Context
35:08 to 36:31
Discussion on the manifestations of racism during Gordon's time, particularly against the Chinese.
“And then I think maybe the next step is like a little walk, like a waddle.”
Gordon's Arrival in Jiangsu
36:31 to 38:02
Gordon's appointment in Jiangsu and the expectations surrounding his leadership.
“That was used by white people in Kelowna, Rhodesia.”
Gordon's Unique Leadership Style
38:02 to 39:54
Analysis of Gordon's leadership style, including discipline and his unorthodox methods.
“We could say of Henry Bourguerine being not hiding his racism.”
Child Soldiers and the Taiping
39:54 to 40:55
Insight into the practice of the Taiping rebellion raising child soldiers.
“They take small boys having murdered their parents and they then raise them as child soldiers.”
Gordon's Military Strategies
40:55 to 42:00
Discussion of Gordon's military strategies and the outcomes of his engagements.
“So Gordon decides that the rebels in Quinzan must be cut off from Suchow.”
Parenting Perspectives and Gentle Parenting
42:00 to 43:20
An exploration of discipline and parenting methods, with a humorous take.
“I do think you should hit gentle parents though.”
The Taiping Rebellion and Gordon's Role
43:20 to 45:56
Discussion about the Taiping Rebellion and Gordon's involvement in it.
“Anyway, Su Chao had been occupied by the Taipings for four years in 1863.”
Gordon's Moral Dilemmas
45:56 to 47:36
Analysis of Gordon's struggles with moral decisions during the conflict.
“Yeah, against these murderous Manson family, sort of pseudo-Christians.”
Cultural Reflections and the Weeb Phenomenon
47:36 to 50:18
A conversation on cultural obsessions and the shift towards Chinese culture.
“Gordon gets devastated, and he threatens to resign and he withdraws his force.”
Honors, Returns, and Future Episodes
50:18 to 53:04
Gordon's honors and the podcast's upcoming content, including film discussions.
“But if you look past that, it's actually a bit of a hidden gem.”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00General Gordon:On September 25th...
0:01Gordon of Khartoum:Melee! Melee!
0:03General Gordon:No one's coming for us. It's just you and me, boy. 58 miles. Heart of the Beast is the must-see adventure of the year. An incredible story of survival. I got you. One of the most extraordinary on-screen blonde you'll ever see. Only the greatest dog to ever walk the earth. Brad Pitt. I'll get you home. Heart of the Beast. Pauline Theatre, September 25th. Rated PG-13. may be inappropriate for children under 13. Propel Fitness Water with Gatorade electrolytes, zero sugar, and vitamins. Propel hydrates better than water to help you get the most out of your workout and get back to your best self. What propels you?
0:42General Gordon:Propel with Gatorade electrolytes. Chronic migraine is 15 or more headache days a month, each lasting four hours or more. Botox, onabotulinum toxin A, prevents headaches in adults with chronic migraine before they start. It's not for those with 14 or fewer headache days a month. It prevents on average 8 to 9 headache days a month versus 6 to 7 for placebo. Prescription Botox is injected by your doctor. Effects of Botox may spread hours to weeks after injection causing serious symptoms. Allerge your doctor right away as difficulty swallowing, speaking, breathing, eye problems or muscle weakness can be signs of a life-threatening condition.
1:15General Gordon:Patients with these conditions before injection are at highest risk. Side effects may include allergic reactions, neck and injection site pain, fatigue and headache. Allergic reactions can include rash, welts, asthma symptoms, and dizziness. Don't receive Botox if there's a skin infection. Tell your doctor your medical history, muscle or nerve conditions, including ALS Lou Gehrig's
1:31Gordon of Khartoum:disease, myasthenia gravis or Lambert-Eaton syndrome, and medications, including botulinum toxins, as these may increase the risk of serious side effects.
1:39General Gordon:Why wait? Ask your doctor, visit BotoxChronicMigraine.com, or call 1-800-44-BOTOX to learn more.
1:57Gordon of Khartoum:you join us once again for fin versus history i'm with the ratio gould and we are talking about
2:03General Gordon:gordon of cartoon today chinese gordon chinese gordon gordon pasha general gordon he goes by
2:10Gordon of Khartoum:many names this fires me the fuck up yeah i'm into this yeah this uh very bittersweet moment in british uh history i feel go on the tail end of empire when uh this is this is pomp right well this is sort of no but as in what i mean is that it's the it's you have men the rot is starting to the rot of clone of anti-colonial forces set in and these uppity natives have started beating us the spoil sports the spoil sports yeah uh gordon uh the myth of gordon at cartoon kind of i think it's the idealism you have men with such strong uh certainty moral certainty yeah and it's starting to be fragmented by the uppity natives yeah um that's why i guess there's a melancholia to it
2:58General Gordon:this is the british underdog uh oppressor i mean it's why every great british story will often be when we're the oppressor but we'll find the one moment where we're underdogs we're under we're a siege yeah the oppressor is general gordon even like agincourt everyone we choose will always be
3:14Gordon of Khartoum:us against dunkirk us running away yeah exactly but before cartoon i mean gordon has one of the most extraordinary lives yeah he's like a victorian uh imperial hero yeah he's like he's like a character from a book yeah well have you read the flashman books because they're kind of based on no gordon uh it's very funny what are the flashman books it's a series of books that are kind of a satire on like victorian hero worship where this character harry flashman okay um he's in a different When was it written? In the 50s or 60s, I think. Right, right, right. But yeah, so it's sort of like a hopeless Bond where he's painted as a hero back home, but in every battle he loses and then much braver people accidentally get killed.
3:57Gordon of Khartoum:He accidentally escapes and he gets all the crud. I read them as a kid.
4:01General Gordon:They should make a series of that.
4:02Gordon of Khartoum:They should. I should make it because I read them as a kid. George and Donald Fraser. They're brilliant books. And I think Gordon's in the one in China. um but yeah the gordon is based on the this is uh it's i mean the life is extraordinary i mean he basically goes everywhere yeah uh he's like who'd you say he's like fucking he's anthony bourdain sort of yes he's the british empire's anthony bourdain yeah uh he was born uh january 1833 in woolwich that's where my family's from so probably we're probably knocking about similar of times actually uh he's he was from a military family um and obviously he will he will die at khartoum you know assailed by sort of proto-jihadis yeah so this is the long road to um lee rigby i guess yeah okay i was wondering where you're gonna go there fighting um islamic extremism yeah i guess it's never been framed in that way it hasn't but as that's part of our part of our podcast is that way if you're doing a massive biography of car of lee of gordon would it be called the long road to lee rugby i think so yeah i think so i mean i'd have a i'd have a flip through in the bookshop i don't think i'd buy it really what i'd have to see but i think it's it's vital context for lee rigby's murder i would say is gordon at cartoon right anyway so gordon is a he's from a his family has like been in the british army for years decades uh generations is the word he was the Ninth of 11 children.
5:30General Gordon:So he's sort of born in the middle of Pax Britannia? Britannica. Right, so it's post-Napoleonic Wars before First World War where there's sort of like, this is the kind of height where there's no real superpower challenging Britain.
5:43Gordon of Khartoum:That's when he's born, yeah. Yeah, I guess so. But he's obviously, he's a sort of military kid. He goes around the empire as postings and then he comes back to Woolwich and he sort of joins them as like an officer cadet. And he's a fucking cheeky chappy. sure uh from a young age he uh would ding dong ditch the servants of woolwich what is ding dong ditch i don't know charlie can we google what ding dong ditch is right you ring a doorbell and then you run away as quickly as possible okay um so he's anti-social behavior really sure you've been ditched no i don't think i ever was ditched you've been ditched i bought everybody i bought like 12 people around the donuts like from crispy cream and then i came out and no one was
6:23General Gordon:got ditched i mean it's brutal did you eat all the donuts yourself that's what i would have done Boy, lads, let's ditch him. And then they kind of bullied me on MSN afterwards. Afterwards? Yeah, they said I wasn't being myself
6:34Gordon of Khartoum:because it was the first time that we'd hung out with girls. I mean, apparently I was really shy. He would prank the Woolwich cadets that were nicknamed the Pussies. Right. Because this is relevant to me because we're currently trying to move my daughter away from calling her vagina a front bum, which we find gross, but she's adamant. One of her friends hilariously calls it a Gina, but says it like Trump says China. Gina. Gina! mommy my vagina hurts vagina I get a vagina it's very funny very very funny went to a kids party went to a kids party with her this weekend and she was just in the back of it not a piss party it was a soft play party not a piss party I do not go to piss parties with four year olds but there was a four year old in the back of my car shouting look at my vagina very very funny I got the biggest vagina biggest vagina biggest vagina I got the biggest vagina this school anyway when does pussy become a vulgar slant?
7:28Gordon of Khartoum:It first appeared in the 1880s. Well, that's when Gordon dies. We can trace... It's the end of an era. It is the end of an empire. The end of empire starts when Gordon dies at Khartoum. He's abandoned by Gladstone and people start calling Gina's pussies. People read in the newspaper
7:41General Gordon:about the siege of Khartoum, Gordon's death, and they're like, that's just a fucking pussy, isn't it?
7:46Gordon of Khartoum:Fucking dirty pussy.
7:47General Gordon:What do Victorians call vagina? Let's see the most repressed people in all of history. Box!
7:53Gordon of Khartoum:Box is a Victorian. Nothing. They call it nothing.
7:57General Gordon:Interesting.
7:57Gordon of Khartoum:A clever slang term, playing on Shakespeare as much as do about nothing, implying the thing itself. Get nothing out. What did you do last night? Nothing. Did I go on nothing? Fanny. Fanny. Lady Bits. Disgusting. Lady Bits. Burning shame.
8:13General Gordon:There we go. That's what I call periods
8:16Gordon of Khartoum:and I would like to bring that back.
8:17General Gordon:Yeah. So Fanny is a Victorian word. That makes sense.
8:21Gordon of Khartoum:We're trying to progress from Lady Bits to front bum to Fanny. is fanny the one that you would be my wife's awful fanny i still find that a bit i find that funny i mean none of them are good because with because willie is so childlike and obviously like what a boy calls his is dick yeah it's silly it's silly and it's harmless and it's not sexual at all yeah that's what you're looking for but the the female ones they don't have an equivalent twat put your twat away please you can't go to school with your twat out put your twat away no it's too harsh you can't get your rat out no no four-year-old has a rat okay that's not he got a mouse i guess mouse and a little mouse charlie charlie charlie charlie okay
9:10Gordon of Khartoum:no but my point is is that uh yeah i don't know jaina jaina jainese gordon we're talking about Chinese Gordon um where on earth were we I don't know uh oh the pussies that's right yeah so a school basically there was what I wanted to get to is that when he was at school at an officer cadet age 15 yeah um he's highly strung um and uh we'll find out later in the story why he's so highly strung and repressed but he once headbutted a senior corporal down some stairs and through a glass door wow and he was alleged to have struck cadets with a clothes brush so he was held back by six months because he was basically having he's a hothead yeah tantrums yeah charlie's just google autism question mark there is a question mark about him having autism i don't think there
9:53General Gordon:is a question mark i think it's pretty full-blown but i think even when because that went under the radar but i think you just have to look at his life and he's the word autism doesn't really hold
10:02Gordon of Khartoum:water in victorian society because it wasn't a bit like similar to now how um adh we live in an adhd world right so if you have adhd it's like well yeah yeah that's the era that's the era I feel like the Victorians it's all like how everyone had dysentery
10:20General Gordon:they'll look back at this period you could frame history as like
10:24Gordon of Khartoum:well those were the diarrhoea years
10:26General Gordon:what were the diarrhoea years?
10:28Gordon of Khartoum:I don't know till yesterday Finn Taylor it's you looking out the window the diarrhoea years my travelogue through India the diarrhoea years the diarrhoea diary the diarrhoea of a CEO
10:47Gordon of Khartoum:it's me going on and telling him what i've learned i found i went to india and i found myself
10:55Gordon of Khartoum:yeah no you'd say the british raj was the diarrhea he is yeah yeah um east india company yeah it was a golden age but no you could you know when you now live in an adhd age yeah uh and the victorians they're putting fucking they're putting dresses on chair legs that's about as autistic as it gets they're so precise they're so coded they're so i wonder if it was kind of
11:15General Gordon:easier to be autistic in the victorian age because it's there's so many social rules that's what i mean but if you're autistic you can learn social follow the routines yeah exactly it's when it's all up for grabs like nowadays it's all a fucking free-for-all what am i meant to be doing i mean one thing i've always got diarrhea one thing that i i don't think is an autistic thing to say i think this is a general thing we need to work out how to say hello to a new woman do
Read the full transcript
11:39Gordon of Khartoum:you know what i mean it's not clear it's not clear i can't shake their hands i hate it if they're wearing makeup and a dress you know how i solve this problem what don't meet any new women i've met all the women i'm gonna meet done they'd late that gate is closed you're gordon in car i am wind the drawbridge up we're just gonna wait for help you're fighting down the stairs go away i don't know how to say hello to you hugging feels creepy shaking hands feels weird yeah it's weird you can't high five them fist bump i remember going to house parties like 10 years ago and meeting someone new and not like not immediately getting the cue to hugs then you you put your hand down and they go, oh, hello, sir.
12:13Gordon of Khartoum:And you go, fuck off. What do you want me to do?
12:15General Gordon:Kiss you in the mouth? I usually go, all right, mate, and fucking shake their hand like they're a scaffolder.
12:19Gordon of Khartoum:Yeah, come here, love. Bring it in, love.
12:22General Gordon:But then if they're, I don't know, if they're like dressed very casually, then I think you can shake their hand.
12:27Gordon of Khartoum:Yeah, and also, handshakes aren't for women. They don't have the bone structure to sort of carry them off.
12:33General Gordon:A hug often is too intimate. Far too intimate. There should be like a...
12:37Gordon of Khartoum:Christ's sake, I'm married. Could you ruffle their hair? Could be. i once did that i once did that after a one night stand that uh nothing had happened because she got far too drunk and i let her back into her house and stuff so i basically put her to bed it was all quite sort of sad and in the morning i basically just didn't know how to say goodbye so i just sort of ruffled her hair like a sort of blind child went all right bye then
13:01General Gordon:this episode is brought to you by thrive five it's like people who can't say three and they go
13:06Gordon of Khartoum:three yes five this is food to thrive are you busy yeah so busy i'm fucking busy oh my god i'm too
13:14General Gordon:busy to listen to other people i'm too busy to check in on myself i'm too busy to wipe my ass
13:18Gordon of Khartoum:i'm in a constant battle trying to balance work being a parent wiping my ass my own my solo sex
13:25General Gordon:life your solo sex life yeah just a bit of me time yeah i've got so many big hopes and dreams
13:30Gordon of Khartoum:for 2026, but it feels like there's never enough time in the day to balance all my needs and cook. Yeah, it's true. Do you know what? Fuck cooking. Yeah.
13:42General Gordon:It's woke nonsense.
13:43Gordon of Khartoum:Cooking is woke nonsense. Let's get back to basics, which is poor people bringing you food. Fryview uses 100 % natural ingredients cooked by in-house chefs.
13:53General Gordon:No artificial flavors, no UPFs. What are UPFs? Ultra processed foods. Uber puffs. we can guarantee there's no uber puss in these blokey meals these meals are for blokes yeah
14:05Gordon of Khartoum:real blokes don't cook i wholeheartedly agree yeah they're portion controlled so you know if you're getting you can't get fat off fried meals unless you eat the entire box in a day which you shouldn't do they don't recommend but again we can't we can't you know this is not an any state we can't legislate for how many portions you will eat in one go we say it's portion controlled but
14:23General Gordon:i don't know how fat you are yeah the british dream you should be allowed to uh eat yourself take the handbrake off and just eat yourself to death if you're neurodiverse now we're talking
14:34Gordon of Khartoum:this is much easier because you can avoid the difficulty of food shopping yes it's very overwhelming for neurodivergent instant noodles tomatoes what's going on cut the crap woman asking me how my day is welcome thank you oh fuck i've ruined it i've ruined it why can't someone just send me food to eat yeah well thrive is what you need if you're busy and want an hour a day back go to thrive one two three four five dot co.uk slash fvh fat vegan homo and you will get 40 off your first box thrive love love so gordon is a he's a he's a man of the age sure but he's uh he's cheeky he's angry he's having tantrums uh in 18 and angry is a is a wild combo yes to be a
15:20General Gordon:Cheeky angry man. Cheeky angry guy.
15:25Gordon of Khartoum:It's going...
15:31Gordon of Khartoum:That is, to be fair, that is... I'm quite like that at home sometimes with the kids. When the cheekiness bleeds into just... Put your twat away.
15:41General Gordon:For God's sake, put your rat away.
15:43Gordon of Khartoum:What would be very funny is to call it a front twat. Put that front twat away.
15:48General Gordon:We have guests over. Put that front twat away.
15:50Gordon of Khartoum:your front bum away and put your pants back on your back twat yeah back twat i like that's great i'm not gay
16:05Gordon of Khartoum:in 1952 general gordon become a second lieutenant in the royal engineers yeah uh he becomes now this is around 21 he basically becomes an intensely religious man yeah and this is kind of defines his character i see myself a lot in this next sentence right he particularly dislikes dinner parties preferring physical hardship to socializing yeah that's me all over yeah he's a he's a he's a
16:29General Gordon:real man of the age that sort of like get out there yeah he's yeah i'd write he's cold plunging rather than speaking he certainly earned his mustache do you know what i mean no man's earned
16:39Gordon of Khartoum:their mustache more than this no uh i don't like parties i would rather just sort of go for a run and then eat far too much. Right. He's also, he's absolutely begging for a fight. The entire, something we see throughout his career, he's always asking someone, please let me get out. I want to smash whoever we're smashing right now. Let's go. And this is what I'm talking about when I mean there's a sort of melancholy to him because he's born in the peak of the empire and yet he kind of comes of age just when it starts, when no victory is a foregone conclusion anymore. and we start losing stuff.
17:16General Gordon:Well, do you think he was born a little too late?
17:18Gordon of Khartoum:Like by 10 years almost, I think.
17:20General Gordon:Right. And this is how you empathise with him then?
17:23Gordon of Khartoum:Yes, because I feel I was born 110 years too late. Anyway, Gordon's initially sent to Corfu, but he's so eager to fight, he lobbies the war office to be sent to Crimea because in 1854, it's all kicking off over there.
17:37General Gordon:And he wants to let me at him.
17:38Gordon of Khartoum:Let me at him. Now, the Crimean War, this is part of the great game. This is when Russia are in their imperial pomp. And it's basically a fight between Britain and France and Russia to sort of protect British interests in India, I think.
17:53General Gordon:Yeah, there's constant territorial disputes just moving around Central Asia into India. And I think they just choose Crimea as the field to sort it all out.
18:03Gordon of Khartoum:Yeah, basically. Quote, we do not, generally speaking, like the thoughts of peace. I expect I shall remain abroad for three or four years, which I would sooner spend in war. there is something indescribably exciting he's desperate for death yeah now there's got a death wish well there's a debate about whether he has a death wish or not um he assumes he will die in war he wants a glorious death yes um as we'll see i guess there's hubris to him yeah i suppose anyway isn't hubris saying i will never die if he's like i want a glorious death and gets a glorious death that's not hubris i feel like there is some kind of greek word for there's a sort of dramatic irony within his story like he's put he's i don't know what i wonder if there isn't a
18:45General Gordon:dramatic because normally there's dramatic irony where someone's just too egotistical and they get taken down for it but he kind of gets exactly what he wants do you know i mean he sets out saying i want to live this life i want to die in a blaze of glory yeah he gets that exactly
18:57Gordon of Khartoum:yeah so what's that that's just sorry just to just to give charlie his juice um he gets sent to corfu initially gordon and so charlie just googled harvey price corfu yeah uh and what was the joke you thought of? What today? Yeah. Very good. Anyway, Gordon gets sent to Crimea, finally, and he arrives at Balaclava. Is that where the Balaclava comes from? It must be. Please. Let's just double check that, Charlie.
19:20General Gordon:Because we had this problem with scone before.
19:22Gordon of Khartoum:The Balaclava originates during the Crimean War. It's named after this battle here, where British troops, lacking proper winter gear, wore hand-knitted face coverings to protect themselves from extreme... So something that's become so appropriated by the IRA, right? British. it's british well i love that i absolutely love that my culture is not your costume yes ira that's ours kneecap that's that's that's fucking hilarious imperial crimean war that is an imperial british military dress that you're wearing on stage saying get the brits out yeah hilarious
20:00General Gordon:he says without laughing with a lot of venom in his voice hilarious absolutely that's hilarious That's delicious.
20:09Gordon of Khartoum:I'm going to start an anti-Irish English rap group called Shinbone.
20:17Gordon of Khartoum:I'm going to try and get on after them at festivals.
20:21General Gordon:Yeah, I feel that's harder to get off the ground. I think English people doing anti-Irish music now, I think that's quite hard to, it's hard to find an audience for that.
20:31Gordon of Khartoum:I saw a story where the guy, he's in Japan, and he's and it's so funny because he's like i never thought we'd fucking play japan yeah why on earth are we playing japan couldn't be further away from what we're singing about or even the language so he arrives at balaclava and he's so he's a kind of is he a fusilier or he's an engineer he's a military engineer so he's basically building shit while he's out there yeah so he's sent uh up to the trenches he is a junior leader in a night operation on the 14th of february he's basically meant to build um like a sort of uh connection between two outposts and it's valentine's
21:02General Gordon:day which is this is probably how it most want to spend his valentine's day genuinely is because
21:07Gordon of Khartoum:there's a there's a large you know his sexuality is a constant or lack lack thereof yeah is a constant theme throughout this um this series in his life my sense is that he's a non-offending homosexual right because of this in this era it is a crime that was a phrase so that's not what
21:25General Gordon:we're saying it should be we're just saying sorry we're taking ourselves back to the spirit i'm
21:30Gordon of Khartoum:Using the words of the time. Yes. You would be a non-offending homosexual.
21:34General Gordon:Yeah. He's decided honorably, I am a homosexual, but I shall sheath my homosexual sword. Yeah, for the good of society. For queen and country.
21:43Gordon of Khartoum:Yeah, I'm going to holster my back twat for the good of society. So he leads his men to some caves and basically while doing so, he gets caught in like friendly fire, because it's confusion, which then starts a Russian picket 150 yards away starting starts to fire at him but his cool competence impresses people he has this
22:06General Gordon:so even though this operation is kind of a fuck up it's just his ability to deal with
22:09Gordon of Khartoum:which is where the whole Flashman thing's coming from because it's like he's just sort of careering blindly into situations getting it wrong and then somehow sort of escaping but this is where we first get a sense of his kind of he's almost transcendental his death was nothing because he was made peace with God right Right.
22:28General Gordon:But he makes peace with God in a very modern Protestant way, right? Yes. Which is it's your own relationship to God. So it's like he reads the Bible and he's interpreting it in his own way. It's a very individual relationship he has with God.
22:43Gordon of Khartoum:It's not organized. It's not organized.
22:45General Gordon:He's getting his own things from it. He's reading between the lines.
22:49Gordon of Khartoum:Yes, totally. He's drawing strength from God. so the Russians evacuate Sevastopol in 1855 yeah Gordon writes I saw a splendid sight the whole of Sevastopol was in flames great explosions took place while the rising sun shining on the place had a most beautiful effect he gets off he loves it on war
23:09General Gordon:well I mean he must be the cum must be bursting out of it so any of this stuff it's got to go somewhere it's got to go somewhere what is it Charlie
23:14Gordon of Khartoum:are there any of these sort of guys left they just fucking love it in terms of like war Ant Middleton
23:19General Gordon:there's lots they're still in the army they just have nowhere to really go i guess the sas occasionally they get a run out yeah
23:27Gordon of Khartoum:that's what i quite like you know with the trump thing in the venezuela i'm like oh these the boys
23:31General Gordon:are getting a run out yeah it's just nice to get them because these guys you don't want to keep their fault that they did it because if you're a delta squad member you're not meant to think
23:38Gordon of Khartoum:about the geopolitics of it you're also not really meant to be in normal society i think i think it's sort of like a it's a prison really let's get these guys away you know yeah doing stuff yeah
23:47General Gordon:Yeah, not saying I was right or wrong. It was nice to see.
23:50Gordon of Khartoum:It's like an XL bully needs a fucking walk. Do you know what I mean? You gotta walk that dog. Do you know what I mean? Don't, not, don't. You shouldn't be hanging around outside a shopping centre.
24:00General Gordon:who have the ability to do that, they need a run out or else it's going to go out and they've got to be doing something. If they're just in the house, they're going to be tearing the place to shreds. Trump walks into Delphos. They'll be flash banging their family at breakfast.
24:11Gordon of Khartoum:you know, exactly. They need a run out. They come down in the morning. Yeah. Anyway, Gordon, for his service at Sebastopol, he's awarded the French Légion d 'honneur, which I think it's quite telling that a British man wins the French Victoria Cross for actually not surrendering. So he then, after his delights in the Crimean War, he's seen action. He doesn't want to go back to England because he gets bored easily, this guy. Much like Delta Force, they get bored. He needs to fucking work. He needs to run out.
24:39General Gordon:To be honest, in this time, the problem with, there's a lot of British guys who were kept in the house, kept in the country because there's no empire to go out to. No. Everyone's rattling around. Well, look at the Falklands. Falklands. Finally, they were like,
24:50Gordon of Khartoum:fuck yeah.
24:51General Gordon:Thai cave rescue. That was like, British dads got to run out. But here, if you're born here, you could choose any corner of the world. There's shit to get involved. Never has a dog
24:58Gordon of Khartoum:been so well-worned than a British man during the 19th century. So he then, he fucks off around Europe. He goes traveling, goes inter-ailings all. He goes to Armenia, which I guess would be in the Ottoman Empire at this point. He goes back to England. he gets appointed to Chatham in the late 1850s, but really the place where he makes his name, he's known as Gordon of Khartoum after his death, which we'll deal with that in the next episode. But really he gets, before that, he's known as Chinese Gordon because a large part of that, and that's not just me calling him that.
25:28General Gordon:I know, but that does sound like an East End slang sort of nickname.
25:32Gordon of Khartoum:Right, Chinese Gordon. Right, Chinese Gordon, yeah.
25:33General Gordon:Chinese Gordon. Why do we call it that we don't know?
25:36Gordon of Khartoum:Because he, again, so China at this point is in the,
25:40General Gordon:uh similar to us now Chinese Gordon sounds like bash that's like big John
25:48Gordon of Khartoum:um China during this period of time is similar to how we are now and it's during a century of humiliation yeah um you know the the family yeah so we are in I've said this before we are currently living through a century of humiliation in the the family or a thing yeah and we I think also China are probably going to take their revenge soon oh 100 % we're gonna have there's quite a
26:09General Gordon:long queue of people because india are also on the rise arguably so gordon goes out during the second opium war which is this our century of humiliation yeah this is our century of humiliation
26:19Gordon of Khartoum:i've said that before is that this is british culture and it's a family from general gordon to the family yeah yeah it is um what we're watching now is the family who are a tiktok family who who post videos like this yeah uh where they're dancing holding some takeaway bags and the caption is when mum says yes to a Chinese yeah now
26:41General Gordon:it's a sense of humiliation we've just got we've got to suck it up and bear it
26:44Gordon of Khartoum:and we will we will come out of it the way China does right or will we we don't know but so during the Gordon gets posted to China it could be a Greek situation where it's another 2 ,000 years where we just go to sleep but so we're in the second opium war now the opium wars were basically the English and French forcing China to open up their ports yes to exchange drugs for silver yeah Now, opium was banned in China, but the Brits basically fought them twice and then made them buy it.
27:11General Gordon:We made a drug epidemic to make a market.
27:13Gordon of Khartoum:We introduced fentanyl into China. So that we could sell fentanyl to them. Yeah, exactly. So we wouldn't sell it in our own country.
27:21General Gordon:It's one of the harder ones to justify the opium war.
27:25Gordon of Khartoum:No, we can't sell opium to our own people. We've got to drug the Chinese so that they pay for it.
27:29General Gordon:It's one of the more cut and dry. Don't shit where you eat.
27:32Gordon of Khartoum:Or sell drugs abroad.
27:34General Gordon:um my point is the british are acting like a cartel yes but because they've got moustaches very clean you can kind of get away with a lot now what's happening is that in the way that we
27:44Gordon of Khartoum:forced china to buy opium uh china have forced us to uh into tiktok um videos and brain rot opium of the masses the opium of the masses exactly so we are now kind of i frame this
27:57General Gordon:century as a sort of a reverse yeah opium war well they're making us all brain dead and yeah
28:04Gordon of Khartoum:and it's banned over there watching the family yeah exactly no they got their own version they got their own version yeah I imagine it's more respectable definitely more controlled you know is there a fam-a-ree out there
28:17Gordon of Khartoum:when mum says yes to an English and they're dancing like this with bags of chips you know we can't know so Gordon is bored in England and he's begging the war office also the war office we don't really have that anymore do we
28:32General Gordon:but it's amazing that you can go to an office and say put me somewhere please i'm gonna fight uh just wherever yeah exactly
28:38Gordon of Khartoum:india canada you know you name it brilliant so he's beg he's begging to be he's just begging for a fight yeah um wherever the british are seeing action so he receives a posting to china during the second opium war and uh he arrives in so china now britain at this point is mainly protecting
28:56General Gordon:shang china was never a colony but we just had like key ports like hong kong shanghai We had international cities. Yes.
29:05Gordon of Khartoum:He gets posted during the Second Opium War. And then during the end of that war, there is the destruction of the old Summer Palace, which is ordered by Lord Elgin of Marbles fame, I imagine. So obviously not all antiquity is created equal in his head. And Gordon takes part in the burning of the Summer Palace, but is also, regrets it greatly. Oh damn.
29:27General Gordon:Is it still in ruins?
29:29Gordon of Khartoum:Yeah. Well, yeah. Because they made a new Summer Palace, wasn't it? so this is this is kind of an i think pretty naughty is this maybe the sort of symbol of the century of humiliation for china is there sort of it's their path and being burned um and does it
29:42General Gordon:feel like the kind of colonial rot is really starting to set in where it's just starting to get a little you know the romance the napoleonic wars is now descending into kind of like pretty
29:52Gordon of Khartoum:selling drugs to the chinese yeah exactly it's starting to and even like yeah the nelsonian
29:57General Gordon:period all of that there was a bit more of an idea to it all but that's what i mean is that
30:02Gordon of Khartoum:gordon is of that he has the moral he's part of the romantic era yeah and he has that moral certainty of someone who was born 100 years previously and yet it's starting to get a bit icky it is getting icky yeah with the opium wars over gordon now becomes involved in the a conflict that had been going at the same time which is we should do a series on because it's mad it's the taiping rebellion i don't know much about the type of rebellion the typing rebellion is very funny it's it's one of the most brutal wars in history yeah um again that's because it's in china so there's just a numbers to it yeah stat padding in a way divide by 10 exactly another look the taiping rebellion was went on for 30 years maybe as a civil sort of civil war divide by 10 and 30 years what's that in yeah exactly yeah there was a guy called hong jikwan who believed that
30:48General Gordon:he was jesus's younger brother much younger i'm much younger um i'm not sure is it same dad i
30:55Gordon of Khartoum:different mum must be yeah i know the chinese calendar is slightly different to the western
31:00General Gordon:one um but if you if your view of the christian god is like that of zeus where he's just always getting disguises and fucking everyone yes then you could just be stepbrothers with lots of people
31:11Gordon of Khartoum:i guess history yeah i guess so um now the uh and 30 million people might have died during the typing rebellion yeah it's brutal and it's a lot uh now uh they are i'm not just saying this as a slur they are called the ching dynasty yeah so i will be referring to them as the chings but that's not a slur that's academic right so these fucking chings
31:38General Gordon:these chings uh you can't say like that you got you can't say these fucking chings
31:43Gordon of Khartoum:it's a bit of fun um but the chings slap back hard against these against the chong dynasty
31:52Gordon of Khartoum:is there actually a chong dynasty i don't know because there's chong ching which we've talked about before is a very funny name for a city um is there a chong dynasty there's a song the taipings are they're like a millenarian what does that mean yeah it's a belief in a coming radical transformation of society utopianism like a sort of biblical final judgment
32:13General Gordon:it's yeah it's kind of that we've got christ younger brother and he's going to lift us from
32:17Gordon of Khartoum:salvation god fucked god went to thailand and fucked in it as a sex tourist and he's got a younger much younger kid uh called hong jikwan and but also the ching dynasty had been ruling china for a long time and i think there was a lot of discontent about the chings in general well there's discontent about the chings yes there's a lot of discontent about the chings by the chinese people so i think the tai bing rebellion i don't know how many people were like signing up because it was a christian or sort of christian yeah i think or whether they just hated
32:54General Gordon:the the there's a lot of other factors going on yeah so my point is that gordon quite quickly
33:00Gordon of Khartoum:gets assigned to protect these uh interests like shanghai and hong kong because these are sort of international cities yes dubai yeah it's yeah it's the yeah you'd have people moving to nowadays you have influences in Shanghai you know being motivational speakers oh it's so great the weather's brilliant and there's zero culture and everything's glass and I can't stand outside for more than 10 minutes there's no tax
33:21General Gordon:because of all the slaves
33:22Gordon of Khartoum:yeah isn't it brilliant you abolish abolish taxes and just use slaves
33:25General Gordon:the west has fallen like there's so many taxes but it's much better over here with all these slaves yeah
33:30Gordon of Khartoum:anyway so the Chings lacked a standing army
33:34General Gordon:were they sitting down yes yeah
33:35Gordon of Khartoum:or the terracotta
33:36General Gordon:yeah of course
33:37Gordon of Khartoum:they basically it became a sort of regional defense. So it was all like a mess of independent armies. And Gordon's one was called, amazingly, the Ever-Victorious Army.
33:50General Gordon:It's very much of the age.
33:51Gordon of Khartoum:Well, things in China are just, they have good names. They do, actually. I don't know if it's a translation thing.
33:56General Gordon:Yeah, like 100 victories forever, eternally or something like that.
33:58Gordon of Khartoum:Yeah, or the Great Leap Forward. Yes. You know, all this stuff is so... Number one best policy ever. Yeah, it's named with such grandeur. Yeah. But the Ever-Victorious Army is kind of a hybrid force of Chinese soldiers staffed by like officered by Europeans been organised by this American adventurer called Frederick Ward in Shanghai and his successor Henry Berger is it an adventurer
34:20General Gordon:do we have adventurers now?
34:22Gordon of Khartoum:well that's what
34:23General Gordon:you could be an adventurer well it's Anthony Bourdain isn't it? no Ray Mears isn't an adventurer because he's fucking he's in the home counties trying to make a fire he's a bushman
34:31Gordon of Khartoum:he's bushcraft yeah Bear Grylls? no but he's like he just wants to run away well actually you know what it says British adventurer on there
34:38General Gordon:But the problem is you can only be an adventurer as if you're making content.
34:41Gordon of Khartoum:Top draw. I don't know if they're...
34:43General Gordon:Maybe they're adventurers.
34:44Gordon of Khartoum:Well, they're the closest thing to Gordon. Yeah, I guess so. Gordon's going to Shanghai and saying, what's the best ramen?
34:50General Gordon:You have to have YouTube content if you're an adventurer now. Basically. Yeah, it's those guys around abandoned cities.
34:57Gordon of Khartoum:Henry Bergevin is the successor to the ever-victorious army, the head of the ever-victorious army. He is an unreliable, arrogant, alcoholic... Now, it says in the script racist, but we don't know no and what i what i have heard is that he didn't make efforts to hide his racism which is not the same thing go on am i telling the truth or am i not telling a lie do you know what i mean yeah okay well you're saying he was too honest two is maybe too strong a word he was honest he's he he said it like he saw it he shot from the hip right right you know uh he did not
35:32General Gordon:make attempts but if you're noticeably a racist in this age what are you saying do you know what i mean yeah when everyone's unbelievably racist yeah people are the extremes
35:44Gordon of Khartoum:wind it in a bit henry god's sake we're all racist yeah we're all like a racist a little bit of fun you know just fucking you know he's probably doing the eyes i guess yeah i guess
35:55General Gordon:but more so it must be i don't even know where you go yeah everyone's doing the eyes yeah so
36:00Gordon of Khartoum:Well, I think it's like with, unlike other forms of racism, anti-Chinese racism is much more physical in its manifestation. In the, you know, eyes, teeth. And then I think maybe the next step is like a little walk, like a waddle.
36:16General Gordon:Don't, yeah, don't do the walk. Just do it sitting down. Don't get out your chair to be racist. That's where I think. We can sit here, drink gin teas and be racist like gentlemen. Don't get up and do a big act out. Yeah, yeah. It's unbecoming.
36:28Gordon of Khartoum:It's too, it's too much. It's too performative. how would a non-white person do anglophobia physically it's tooth day no there'd be the nose wouldn't it it'd be like the way there's two there's posh and there's working class
36:42General Gordon:they're very two this is what's so brilliant about the brits is that we're so obsessed with
36:46Gordon of Khartoum:class that we sort of you can't really touch because it is two nations under god in that in that we can deflect any anglophobia as going well that's not me that's those povos.
36:56General Gordon:Ethnic slurs for white people.
36:58Gordon of Khartoum:Teapot? Teapot. Apparently. That was used by white people in Kelowna, Rhodesia. So that's the opposite of what we're looking for. Hillbilly, honky. Cracker.
37:10General Gordon:I guess Gammon pisses the white people off. It does, yeah. So I think Gammon, they found one that actually rattles the cage a little bit.
37:17Gordon of Khartoum:Karen really rattles the cage.
37:19General Gordon:Karen does rattle the cage. White men don't like Karen.
37:23Gordon of Khartoum:What's great about Karen is it's one that white men can use.
37:25General Gordon:Oh, it's brilliant. Yeah. What you didn't remember is how deeply sexist we all are.
37:29Gordon of Khartoum:Yes. Ha-ha! The final redoubt.
37:31General Gordon:Well, don't not call me that. That's ridiculous.
37:33Gordon of Khartoum:Yeah. Don't be stupid. Come on. Come on. We're all having a bit of fun. Anyway. So, now, at some point, Li Hong Zhang, who's the governor of Jiangsu province, he requests British help. Yeah. And so Gordon gets selected and he's nominated by the government. and this man Lee is impressed with Gordon saying it's a direct blessing from heaven this coming of British Gordon. He's a glorious fellow with his many faults, his pride, his temper and his never-ending demand for money. He is an honest man but difficult to get on with.
38:02General Gordon:Honest man difficult to get on with. That is autism, right? That is, yeah. Too honest. You just say what you... You don't read social cues.
38:08Gordon of Khartoum:We could say of Henry Bourguerine being not hiding his racism. I'm too honest. I'm difficult to get on with.
38:14General Gordon:Is it honest if you're doing a walking act out?
38:18Gordon of Khartoum:A Chinese waddle. As well as the eyes and the teeth. What is the one?
38:21General Gordon:I'm being honest. I don't know. You could do the... Can you do it? No, I can't do it, actually. But I nearly did.
38:26Gordon of Khartoum:It's escalating, isn't it? So, you know, you start with the teeth and the eyes, which we're not going to do, and then you get up and do it maybe. How do you escalate from there? How do you build on the racism that you've already found?
38:37General Gordon:I know what you do for, like, a Japanese noblewoman with the feet together. Yeah. And you could do that little walk.
38:42Gordon of Khartoum:And maybe with the Japanese, you do a little giggle. And, you know, you'd bow. You know, there's lots of things you could... I don't need to, you know, if you would like... You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it come.
38:52General Gordon:If you like the masterclass that Finn's running on.
38:55Gordon of Khartoum:Yes, I will be hosting my racism masterclass inside the racist studio. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it racist.
39:04General Gordon:Yeah.
39:04Gordon of Khartoum:Anyway, so Gordon takes over in Jiangsu on the 25th of March, 1863, commanding nearly 4 ,000 men. Now, maybe we should place this because we haven't placed this quite yet. 1863, after the Crimean War, Before Jack the Ripper. I was going to say before Crimea River. Oh, yeah. Justin Timberlake. Yeah. Commanding about 4 ,000 men, and Gordon imposes strict discipline from the start, so he doesn't like any looting, which is kind of customary in Chinese warfare because that's how they get paid, just looting. This is a real problem. He bans hard liquor, which is odd because I think there's a lot of rumours about him being an alcoholic himself, but maybe that might be later.
39:43Gordon of Khartoum:And this is where he gets his, his really sort of main idiosyncrasy, is that he's known for leading his troops into battle armed only with a wicker cane and the chinese think this is like a magic wand right um but it is basically just like a sort of fuck off yeah yeah get back it's the schoolmaster yeah the cane um now the typing spanking their bodies he's spanking chinese bodies he's spanking chinese back twats anyway um now the typing's notoriously cruel. They take small boys having murdered their parents and they then raise them as child soldiers.
40:20General Gordon:At least they're taking responsibility and they're raising them. Yes, no. I mean, you could make many... You know, fatherhood is tough. It is. You'd know.
40:28Gordon of Khartoum:Many cultures, the father just sort of has license to sort of run away. Not in... No, they've raised
40:33General Gordon:an army of child soldiers. Give them a job.
40:35Gordon of Khartoum:Gordon has a big... Is this where his fondness for sort of street urchins begins? We can't know. But... He, quote, I saved one small creature who had fallen into the ditch and trying to escape, for which he rewarded me by destroying my coat with his muddy paws. Sounds like he loves it, though. He loves it. He loves it. Look, I've got paw marks all over me. My coat's all dirty. So Gordon decides that the rebels in Quinzan must be cut off from Suchow. So he takes a steamboat. I mean, I love the steamboats, paddle steamers. Steamboats fire me up, for sure. I just love this era. Anyway, he takes Quinzan easily.
41:12Gordon of Khartoum:And he says, the rebels certainly never got such a licking as before.
41:16General Gordon:Licking's great as well. Licking's great. Yeah. We'll lick them tomorrow.
41:20Gordon of Khartoum:However, after the capture of Quintan, Gordon's troops mutiny over a lack of loot. And he then, I think he shoots someone and immediately disciplines him. So he manages to discipline them.
41:31General Gordon:Yeah. So he's got very strong moral principles. Even if they're pragmatically, it doesn't always work.
41:36Gordon of Khartoum:So again, it kind of feeds into the autism, potential autism for the man.
41:39General Gordon:He's got a routine and a structure. He does. And they're like, no, we want to do this. but I thought we were doing this and I cannot deviate from my daily routine.
41:46Gordon of Khartoum:Yes. What's your most effective discipline method? Do you do like the countdown method with your kids? Yep. What's the best,
41:52General Gordon:what's the scariest and best method? Well yours is against the wall right? Into the corner.
41:56Gordon of Khartoum:First against the wall. No it's daddy's going to get angry soon. And does daddy ever get angry? Sometimes. Yeah. Yeah. I don't hit kids. I don't believe in hitting kids. But it would be easier? It would be much easier. I don't believe in gentle parenting. I do think you should hit gentle parents though. I think they should fuck off. Wait, so you're spanking gentle parents? I'm hitting them in the face. I'm not spanking them.
42:19Gordon of Khartoum:Discipline's difficult. It's difficult. Could you punch a pillow next to them?
42:22General Gordon:That's too much.
42:23Gordon of Khartoum:Punch your pillow next to them.
42:25General Gordon:If you're on the train and a gentle parent is letting their kid run wild, they're just expressing their creativity. You should be allowed to grab them, put all their trousers down and start spanking them like they're a child themselves.
42:36Gordon of Khartoum:Yes.
42:37General Gordon:I think that's a way of... I think that's fine.
42:38Gordon of Khartoum:I think hitting gentle parents is fine. Hitting kids is not fine. What about crying in their face? If you just like, if you had like bloodshot terrifying. Oh, you mean they're crying and then you're crying and then like you get in like - I've always thought that. Just like, I don't know if it builds
42:52General Gordon:a good culture in the house though. I don't think - If the person could charge is -
42:58Gordon of Khartoum:The problem is that you then don't leave yourself much emotional room to go for like, you know, quite urgent situations. Yeah, because tears don't really mean much. If you're trying to get them to, you know, put their trousers on and you're - And you're like the end of Rocky. Like, Adrian! I feel like when they're running towards a road and you want them to stop, you don't have much, you know. Anyway, Su Chao had been occupied by the Taipings for four years in 1863. And their leaders, La Wang and Mo Wang, because Wang is Chinese for king. Okay, they're not brothers. They're not brothers. The Wang brothers.
43:34Gordon of Khartoum:Phil Wang? They might be. Phil Wang means Phil King. There's a portrayal amongst the Wangs and Mo Wang gets dismembered. Yeah. And he's assassinated by Kong Wang and Sing Wang. And then La Wang escaped. I mean, listen, I don't know. It's fucking Wang. It is, it is Number Wang. It is Number Wang. I've got, that's Number Wang. I've got no idea. Number Wang was someone else. It's Number Wang escaped. Yeah, Number Wang escapes. Anyway, Su Chao gets surrounded by the Chings.
44:02General Gordon:Led by the forces under Chang.
44:04Gordon of Khartoum:Fuck me. Right. Yeah. so um yeah the wangs are under the cosh by the chings who's led by chang by a guy called li hung chang li hung chang and then anyway thankfully gordon gordon there we go the life raft of an english name in the taiping rebellion he's nearby with his ever victorious army um which is like calling it it's like it's like calling an army perfect fried chicken yeah anyway um he negotiates a conditional surrender with Wang and he guarantees the lives of the rebels, protections for civilians and no looting. This is the age of kind of liberal interventionism. Right. It's like we are the moral.
44:46Gordon of Khartoum:Blairism. Well, this is proto Blairism. Despite Gordon negotiating with the Wangs and the Chings and the Chags.
44:57General Gordon:I mean, not an easy job.
44:59Gordon of Khartoum:Sucho gets sacked. If you're called Gordon
45:01General Gordon:and you have to sort out the wangs, the chings and the chings.
45:04Gordon of Khartoum:Wangs, chings, chows. Christ. Is Gordon the most English male name going? Gordon. I really like the name Gordon. My wife. I was trying. My wife's called Gordon. My wife's called Gordon. I call my wife Gordon. I call my wife General Gordon. Or her back twat. She's got a cane as well. Gordon's back twat. General Gordon. Her bum is called Jeff. Yeah. The last siege of, the last standard cartoon. She dies in the toilet. anyway anyway so christ uh su cho gets sacked i mean this must be big john's favorite history yeah um su chow gets boshed when the city is captured on the 5th of december and despite gordon's orders despite the liberal interventionist instincts despite the you know this is cricket is how you take a city there is widespread looting arson rape and mass slaughter uh and gordon tries the whole army the whole time has been like let us rape yeah and he's like no and it's just every single time you gotta let us right that's how the chinese getting paid the the troops are getting
46:07General Gordon:pretty upset yeah they're upset you've hurt their feelings yeah they really want to we need to have
46:11Gordon of Khartoum:a discussion about rape for the morale of the troops yeah they're really upset yeah they are come on come on i want to walk exactly yeah take me out despite having surrendered under the guarantees of safety the wangs and the other typing leaders are executed by the chings i am lost i don't know who's i don't understand it's very very simple on one side you've got gordon yeah right and the ever victorious army and who's he's allied with the chings who's led by the changs led by chang by chang yeah they're fighting the wangs who are in the taipings and we're all in a city called su chao bash um anyway the wang why has gordon sided with the the chings lengbaichang because he's against the taiping rebellion are the rebels against the chings but why is he siding with the chings that's the chinese government who the britain britain had come to an agreement with after the open even though the taipings are sort of christian but they're
47:10General Gordon:not because it's just some chinese guy who says he's the brits have sided with the government that they sold opium for silver. Yes, it's not yet. And now we're allies. Yes, because we're drugging them.
47:20Gordon of Khartoum:Against. Yeah, against these murderous Manson family, sort of pseudo-Christians. Right. It's all very simple. Yep, sorry. One of the Wangs, basically, at some point, there's a lot of rape and pillage, and they all get murdered by the Chings, and Gordon demands arrest and a trial for the treachery of Chang. Yes. Gordon gets devastated, and he threatens to resign and he withdraws his force. So the Imperial Army, or the IMPs, as Gordon calls them, they want the honour of taking Nanking, which was the Taiping capital. Right. So this is west of Shanghai.
47:54General Gordon:And Gordon's not that bothered about that.
47:56Gordon of Khartoum:Gordon was like, well, yeah, it's their country. They should have the... Yeah. But so he disbands the ever-victorious army in June 1864. He then goes to Beijing to advise on the military. He closes the group chat, basically.
48:08General Gordon:Yeah. Yeah. I don't think... No one really ends group chats, do they? I just archive.
48:14Gordon of Khartoum:them all you're yeah they're just there yeah group chats are forever every now and then on like a stag do whatsapp group has been latent for four years to be like i've got tickets to the crickets
48:22General Gordon:yeah yeah it's once you resummon a dead whatsapp group it's dangerous it is dangerous it is like
48:29Gordon of Khartoum:it's playing with the dead people in there who are friends of like an ex-girlfriend yeah you can't do
48:33General Gordon:i want to cut them out yeah you know you're waking someone from the dead yeah you are to wreak havoc
48:37Gordon of Khartoum:lazarus anyway he then uh gets given this unprecedented honor of given uh the yellow jacket of the imperial bodyguard which had never been given to a foreigner before it's like the highest chinese sort of um imperial honor you can get freddie mercury jacket right yeah i think the photo's there yeah
49:02General Gordon:well what's interesting is there's now a movement so you know the kind of whole weeb movement well that's what i'm saying is this is kind of he's not a weeb though because weeb is white guys obsessed with japanese culture and because basically there's an oversaturation of white guys obsessed with japanese culture yes there was a there was a moment where it was a bit niche but now they're flooding japan just everyone likes anime so now the based goated move is to do that for china cheap yeah cheap to be a cheap which is a very good name actually for a front bum cheebs put your cheebs away cheebs look down on weeps is what i'm saying i've got two
49:37Gordon of Khartoum:cheps and a cheap yeah sorry yeah you're saying that we should all get into chinese culture well
49:43General Gordon:i'm just saying that's where the movements go and now it's kind of looked down it's now seen as a bit ghost to be into japanese culture the chinese culture's coming back where that's coming from
49:50Gordon of Khartoum:where that's the current opium war we're fighting against the oh they're feeding it yeah they want you to become a cheap yeah they want you hooked on chinese slurry yes they want the 5g masts you know they're going in through big john big john is a fucking he's a he's a dark agent he's a foreign agent he is a foreign agent big john is a cheapophile whatever that is he's also a chinese state agent during our current century of humiliation my point is gordon disbands the other victorious army he gets given this big yellow jacket but he kind of some stuff he says i'm not accepting that because your boys were so disgraceful in the rape and the loot and su chow Gordon refuses some honors and he returns to England with his Chinese jacket and he gets known as Chinese Gordon and in 1864 he begins some charity work with young boys and we will get into maybe what that means as well as his return to action in Africa on our next episode the big one we will deal with the big one we will deal with his heroic last stand at Cartoon we're also doing a Patreon episode
50:53General Gordon:where we're going to review the actually very good film
50:55Gordon of Khartoum:very good film Cartoon
50:56General Gordon:which I think has been lost to the annals of history because of its unbelievable use of blackface.
51:02Gordon of Khartoum:Sheer amount of blackface.
51:03General Gordon:But if you look past that, it's actually a bit of a hidden gem.
51:06Gordon of Khartoum:If you were a fan of Tropic Thunder because of Robert Downey Jr.'s character, you were nothing else about the film. You will love the film Cartoon, and we both watched it last night. It's a genuinely brilliant film. It's great.
51:17General Gordon:It's sort of like Lawrence of Arabia, really. Yeah. But just for some reason, Lawrence of Arabia only has one bit of blackface. Everyone has blackface. I think the hundred blackfaces is probably what.
51:25Gordon of Khartoum:yeah you when you're using as extras white guys blacked up in crowd scenes go go go behavior in my view you know why should blackface only be in the main character it should be non-speaking roles
51:41General Gordon:it should be the background yeah just background artists blackground artists you know i'm a big believer in background artists if i was a director nowadays yeah i'd make a film
51:52Gordon of Khartoum:that was very politically correct, but some of the background artists would be blacked up. I would just see if anyone would notice.
51:57General Gordon:Okay. Wouldn't that be fun? So just their street scenes.
52:00Gordon of Khartoum:Yeah.
52:01General Gordon:Yeah. Yeah. Just someone watching me like that. Peppering. Is that good? You don't want to bring it up because it feels a bit... Because then it feels like you're the problem. Yeah, because also, if you do that and they're not blacked up, then that's... Yeah. Something's on you. Exactly.
52:14Gordon of Khartoum:Yeah. Just a little...
52:15General Gordon:So how realistic was the blackface? It would be slightly off.
52:17Gordon of Khartoum:No, it'd be 60s blackface. White hands. Yeah. it's very obvious it's just very obviously paint isn't it right yeah yeah weirdly I'm pretty sure in the film there are black actors who have been even more blacked up that's what I thought
52:34General Gordon:I think there's brown actors who have been you know because I guess they're just very liberal they just didn't think about it once I just love the idea about the colour shift in the makeup chair you'd never have a thought once about that that's what I love a white director
52:46Gordon of Khartoum:with a white makeup actor get a black guy and go we'll make you blacker yeah
52:49General Gordon:you'd be blacker they have a colour chart yeah yeah
52:52Gordon of Khartoum:anyway we're discussing that film on the Patreon this week and you get instant access to our next episode where we'll deal with cartoon but for now if not we'll see you on Thursday for the continuation of our General Gordon series goodbye goodbye
53:22General Gordon:On September 25th... No one's coming for us. It's just you and me, boy. 58 miles. Heart of the Beast is the must-see adventure of the year. An incredible story of survival. I got you. One of the most extraordinary on-screen bond you'll ever see. Odie, the greatest dog to ever walk the Earth. Brad Pitt. I'll get you home. Heart of the Beast. Pauline Theater, September 25th. Rated PG-13. may be inappropriate for children under 13.
53:52Gordon of Khartoum:Push your limits, train with precision, see the results. At Equinox, that's high-performance loving. Everything you need to lock in and unlock your potential at Equinox. Start today at equinox.com.
54:20General Gordon:apples, maple glazed Brussels, and crave worthy flavors in the autumn harvest bowl, maple glazed salmon plate, and roasted bacon Brussels side. The season's most desirable menu has returned to Sweetgreen, featuring fall's best dressed. Make your move. Order on the Sweetgreen app.
From the publisher
This episode is brought to you by Frive.
Go to Frive.co.uk/fvh to get 45% off your first box.
Introducing General Gordon: where there is war, there is a closeted gay man.
General Gordon (Part One)
The show for people who like history but don't care what actually happened.
For weekly bonus episodes, ad-free listening and early access to series, become a Truther and sign up to the Patreon
https://www.patreon.com/fintaylor
Chapters:
00:00: The British Anthony Bourdain
04:55: Put your twat away
07:40: The diarrhea years
11:17: Imperial pomp
14:13: Greek Harvey Price
16:51: Walkies!
20:35: Konnichibosh
24:47: Ching & Chong dynasty
29:05: Physical anglophobia
33:47: Spanking Chinese Botties
36:19: Spank the gentle parent
39:30: All the wangs
43:35: Two chebs & a cheeb
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices