An Upskirt Caricaturist | Great Artists: Van Gogh

0:12Welcome back to Finn vs History folks, I'm joined by Horatio Gould and uh today we're talking about the great artists specifically vincent van goff yes um i'm i'm completely at sea um i can't see land i'm in an ice rink surrounded by spanish children whizzing past me and i'm clinging on to the the life raft of uh psychotic men well you like reality you don't like subtext so as soon as we're getting on towards surrealism it starts getting weirder and stranger and you feel completely uncomfortable. I just think, why the fuck are you doing that? I see some paintings and I'm like, why have you done that?

0:53See, I'm the opposite. I'm quite dyslexic. So I feel I emotionally connect with images much more than I would words. Text triggers you. Well, in many ways, the page looks like Starry Night. I see, right. So, you know, if I'm reading a letter, to me, that's a psychedelic. But you read text the way I look at photos. Like, I said, what the fuck? What am I meant to do with this? Why have you done this? Are you more of a pictures guy or a words guy? He's a poet. Yeah, I'm words. You are a words guy. I'm entirely word based. I can't see. But you're quite, do you think visually? So I think incredibly visually.

1:27I have dreams. I don't really dream anymore. Why is that funny? So do you just turn off at night? Yes. Hard reset. Factory reset. Wake up speaking Chinese. Hurrah. This will be in the morning. Every morning. Yeah, everything's as it is. There's nothing. And I guess you've also not done psychedelic drugs. So. No. Well, I did. You should do some ayahuasca or something. Well, I did. No, no, no, no, no. I stayed with Daniel Slosser's lodger. When I stayed with Slosser the other week, he'd just done an ayahuasca trip. Well, he had like a Kato pool boy. He has got a Kato. It's Ryan Cullen. He's got a Kato.

2:03He's got a Kato-Kailing pool boy. He had just literally come back from an ayahuasca ceremony in Surbiton. Yeah. Well, he lives in someone's pool. so of course he does yeah yeah yeah we're just certain um and he was shaking eating boiled chicken and rice yeah saying that uh he'd spent three days um vomiting uh in a room full of 30 people shitting in a bucket and vomiting and he paid 800 pounds for the privilege and he he felt brilliant and like all his past did he say that he felt brilliant yeah he said like he said it's like it's cured everything right and then i just think i just think i've never i've just not ever really been had a bad time because if i'm paying 800 pounds but in surbiton yes i feel you gotta go jungles right well i don't want to be on the green belt or like zone six when i'm getting yeah when i'm fucking coming up no i don't think you really come up on ayahuasca do you no i think you meet your an alien dad and then you ask him what is it my mate did it and he basically was next to this apparently it's the most visual trip that exists so he was just next to this massive vibrating pink cube of flesh, flesh, and he cried with it.

3:14It started crying, and so did he. Do you think you'd do it? I think it might be a bit much for me, to be honest. A bit rich. Mad enough without the gear. I think so. But you wouldn't do I-A-S-C. No, I am interested in that sort of stuff. Really? I'll just do anything that, anything visually that's a bit mad. Tell you what, I'd be an I-A-S-C-A cuck, I'd watch people doing it. I'd fucking love it. Shitting and vomiting. Yeah, but what the fuck are you doing? I'm sorry, Daddy, I'm sorry. idiots absolute morons that's what I'd be doing I'd definitely think you'd take me out of it if you were if you were stone cold sober in a suit yeah you don't want a sober guy next to you go what the fuck are you shitting in a bucket come on disgust every time the shaman speaks yeah alright mate yeah alright yeah I'm gonna see how many regret I've ever made alright boring what paintings do you like I like war photography

4:04I like war photography I'm very jealous of paintings I think as an artistic process it feels like the most satisfying I don't know I don't think it does I think because it is never finished and then you compare it to stand up and I'm looking at my miserable Google Doc and it's like that's kind of where do you write stuff down? what do you mean? what do you do? I just it's all in there you don't write anything down? no I'll write I'll write on my notes on my phone I'll have like bullet points Epstein no you know the three jokes Epstein, Taliban, Dildo those are the three jokes sometimes you'll do dildo taliban it's a tough room i'll open with dildo taliban epstein those are the three sort of jokes really everyone knows those are the only three jokes i think the greek said that no i don't really i've you know our you we did the renaissance last year and um i found that quite tough i guess i can't ever really get on i still just think why are you doing this i am at my most michael owen when i'm in an art gallery what does that mean boring and stupid yeah or no just most kind of like boorish i guess yeah yeah well you've only seen eight films you've only seen eight paintings i couldn't remember the paintings i've seen i've seen the massive one in the national gallery that's brilliant that the fucking it's easy for me to appreciate when it's fucking massive because it's a lot of paint i think fuck me that must take an age now in the next episode we're talking about picasso and i do i get on board with picasso yeah um i like i think the art's more interesting than van gogh's we're talking about today really yes yeah i do so let's Let's get into, and you will have to be my life raft in this.

5:35The impressionism is the big movement. Yes. That sort of. So I think this is the best period of art. Precedes Van Gogh. I think this is like before it got to the point where they're sellotaping a banana to the wall. Yeah. And then after the point where they're just either doing super religious stuff or painting things as if it was a photo. This is like the perfect blend of modern, but still having the technique of the old craft. Right. Where it's, I think this is like the sweet spot. and basically the impressionist movement was probably started by monet and people who were sick of the traditional way that art was done and that traditional way is basically trying to be photorealistic right yeah but you paint a king and make it the style will be photorealistic but the what you're painting would often be religious scenes would be myths uh would be huge landscapes uh and Dutch guys playing still life yeah and it was all set by the Paris salon which was like i guess like the the industry what the paris salon like gay illuminati the paris salon yeah so like the edinburgh comedy awards but yeah right right right

6:44edinburgh wind festival yeah um but they moved away when they were basically trying to uh make painting more emotional so you're not just capturing reality you're capturing maybe a moment maybe the way that light shimmers on a lake and that like slightly surreal moment it goes into your eyes and it kind of all gets a bit hazy try and capture that and it's more trying to capture memories dreams nostalgia so it kind of moves away from them and also at this point this is like the 1870s um slightly earlier this is just when photography is coming in in france right the first photo i think was in the 1850s right shit photo by the way you get the first photo up it's rubbish i i do i feel like i relate more to that than i do any of the paintings so now that photos coming in and you can sort of depict reality through photography it means that art's role should be to be more expressive more yeah and the truth behind reality i guess how important do you think that um photography is relative to painting in terms of the impact it can have on culture well i don't know i think photography now has been quite undermined because everyone's a photographer right sorry i think i'm not i ask a trick where charlie's just asked a sincere question so uh monet right monet's the is he the kind of origin yeah yeah yeah of not yeah of of impressionism i guess i don't know if you could say and it's called impressionism because uh people would criticize shit paint shit painter yeah basically yeah you're not wrong Impressionism is a bully shit painter.

8:16But similar to suffragettes, it was what was used as an insult. They turned it into a positive thing. Yeah, exactly. Retaming the N-word. Yeah, it's the N-word. Impressionism is the N-word. N-wordism, basically. Dave Portnoy here. The wait is over. Football is here, and so is DraftKings. DraftKings is now live in all 50 states. One app, every sport, nationwide. New DraftKings customers. Sign up with code SPOTIFY. Spend$5 to get$200 in rewards within 21 days. includes all markets. That's code Spotify in partnership with DraftKings. The crown is yours. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER, 1-800-MY-RESET, Connecticut.

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9:27Varies by state. Do you struggle to keep up with the news every week? The bunker has got you covered. Every Monday, we release Start Your Week where we go over the big stories to follow in the coming days. And then on Fridays, we have our weekly wrap-up where we give you the context and the meaning behind the biggest and the weirdest stories of recent days. Search for The Bunker wherever you get your podcasts and subscribe so you never miss an episode. It's time for race rankings. We've ranked Pakistanis high recently, but let me tell you about Karoolean Indians. Oh, they're performing well at the moment.

10:00Listen, they are hot, sexy Indians. They are some hot property. And they are top of my list of my favourite races of people right now. Wow. I mean, this is big news. I mean, you're finding out here that this is the Screen Rock podcast. This is a regular feature we do. we do a bit of race rankings it's kind of like woke racism whilst talking about social media really that's our vibe exactly we pretend that we want to talk about social media really we want to talk about whether we prefer people from Pakistan or Brazil and right now Pakistan are winning baby so listen to the Scree Rock podcast if that's the kind of thing we'll see you there so yeah people said oh that's not a painting that's an impression of a painting and they went some my impressionist yeah exactly they would use and this is Monet and then who's Manet did Manet do do it feel stupid that there's a guy called Monet and then another guy that called, it's like, well, I'll just call myself Manet.

10:47It's like, well, choose a different name. So you see like that painting there. It's sort of, it's not depicting reality as it is. Zoom in, zoom in. The brush strokes is more of an impression of reality. Is the girl on the left meant to look fucked? I think she probably looked quite fucked in reality. Fine. But. It's an impression of someone who might be disabled. But also. Nowadays that's offensive. Offensive to. To draw kind of like an offense, like a sort of impressionist painting. of someone with a disability, it would always be like a caricature, wouldn't it? Well, I think now if you see someone with an easel in public painting you, it's now starting to turn where you're like, I might get absolutely done over here.

11:24Yeah. Because... No. I don't know why we... Do you just fart?

11:33But do you know what I mean? Back in the day, someone was painting you, it's like, at least they're going to depict what's really going on. But now with these freaks and it's all about the inner truth, you have no idea what they're going to... Oh, man. no one's doing you over more than a fucking bosnian refugee by the eiffel tower they are doing you over man those bosnians they get you ever had a character yeah yeah yeah what gets is it the nose what's going on is big ears big ears big jowls big fucking second circle tummy it's funny to get really upset with a caricaturist what the fuck yeah it would be funny to sign up for it and be like and then start crying that must have happened there must be caricature artists where they're like i'm so i'm so sorry i didn't mean to i didn't sorry it's like yes you did you're a caricature artist or if they don't caricature you yeah that would actually be the worst thing wouldn't you because they're like perfect it's not funny yeah no no no i can't actually the best thing to do as a caricature artist would be someone sits down and just take a photo and go yeah look at that you look fucked let's look at this so there's the one of the bridge does this do anything for you click on that one that one of those looks like a nice bridge yeah yeah yeah i mean it's not it's yeah it's nice do you not find it evocative the colors yeah i guess i guess in a way it kind of renders you can imagine you can imagine summer i see summer you see a memory of summer and the way that it captures i've not been there but no but i know but it must evoke past memories poos plain poo sticks in the summer because i feel like if you think back to memories they can they seem a bit more impressionist right yes no that's true yeah i get that or you'll see like light hit the water at sunset and it might trigger other memories of that and that's what i get from impressionism yeah no that's fair enough so so how are they doing this they're using uh wrap more rapid brush strokes yeah so i guess it's less refined yeah uh more expressive also impression is what they painted was they painted everyday life which was seen as very radical because you're normally meant to paint stories from the bible greek myths well the dutch the dutch cunts are doing fruit and um windows and stuff that it's p it's that still life that's not candid right that's people setting up for a painting that's not the french are upskirting well of course i mean impressionist upskirt you're just like like you're going underneath a car like a mechanic that would be very funny

13:58it's a memory it's about how it smells yeah it makes you feel i think i probably want an impressionist vagina more than a photo realist one i think you're right actually i think if i was going to get a painting of one you don't want a photo realist no but impression impression of a penis would be quite hard be quite tough wouldn't it like done done i'll take more time over it Imagine a caricature upskirtist. Upskirt caricaturist. Huge clip. Yeah, making your fanny look as awful as possible. So go Impressionist paintings. So this is just for context. We're talking about Van Gogh, which we'll get to eventually.

14:30But Van Gogh is sort of, he's, this is the - He's very inspired by the Impressionists. This is the artistic world that he kind of starts painting within, right? Yeah. So Impressionism is the big movement of the time. Yeah. So, but it seems to divide the art world. Yes. and it's very funny because i went to the best museum for all of this is the musée d 'orsay in paris and it's very funny going around there and i'm like you'll read plaques and it'll be like this sent victorian society into complete shock and it'll be like a faded drawing of a lamppost right and it's like it's so funny that that can like people like throwing up having diarrhea screaming you can't draw a boat like that that only partly looks like a boat are you fucking crazy but also crucially uh the tin paint tube was invented yeah this is really interesting i didn't know this at all which means that after 1840s people can paint outside so they can paint they can paint stuff that's going on rather than just so they mentioned with a handheld camera or even the ak-47 it means that you can have like a cheap way to get out they were just going oh that was nothing they just had a just had a bow and arrow you know and it looked weird um we should play so when's van gogh born should we place that he's born in 1853 okay interesting well the 1800s is your sort of speciality love this okay so this is the 80 1853 this is just before charles darwin publishes uh on the origin of species after rhymer charlie before the origin species and after we were all little species nice i'll take that we're little species little fucking little fucking species that's a that's a greek guy who's uh temporarily having to run one of those um salons where people dip their feet in the plant yeah come and sit down mate you want to dip your feet in little fucking species or he's trying to he has to he has to explain evolution to his kids.

16:28Yeah. We used to be like a fucking, we're all like little fucking feces. then we're a little fucking monkey, man. And then the fucking, see our chair. Fucking hell. We're hot today. Hot today. So, Van Gogh was born 1853 in Zundert. And obviously his dad is a strict Dutch, Calvinist pastor. Pastor, not pastor. I don't want to eat cow for this pasta. And his mother is minted, and she's a real moody bitch. GPD baddie. Yeah, she's prone to intense bouts of grief. Does that mean that people are dying all the time, or she's just sad? Yeah. Just crying all the time. We can't know. We can't know. Now, this is pretty...

17:15I think the story of Van Gogh is that he's basically got to be one of the hardest, most difficult pints ever, I think. It's kind of like... Yeah, it's a lifelong crash out, would you say? yeah yeah he's a fucking nightmare really yeah i think probably one of the one of the people i'd least like to be friends with or have in my circle sure you're like fuck i gotta cut him loose man he's just dragging us down yeah but this is how grim can i bring my mate who is it it's not van goff is it yeah so vincent right he's born exactly a year to the day after a stillborn brother right who had the exact same name so every sunday beethoven had to do this do you remember Beethoven was taken regularly to walk past a gravestone to see his dead brother who had the same name as him so maybe if you're trying to build a genius artist just keep shoving the faces next to their dead sibling that could have been you not that could have been you he could have been you you've got to do something great you've got to freak him out it's just a morbidity introducing that as an early age means that maybe you have more developed artistic sensibilities but then also you had Beethoven's other brother it's like it sucks to be here mate yeah he's very smug that he's not the dead one well that's it so um family members describe vincent as a thoughtful boy but difficult to understand and that never changes no so he doesn't really he's not artistic at all uh until about age 16 he starts working for an art dealer and then his uncle or his dad who is in the art world uncle sent is an art dealer right yeah um not 50 cent uncle sent uh which yeah it didn't take off as well as 50 cent 50 cents real name vincent no it's curtis right so his uncle uncle vincent nickname uncle sent he is a wealthy international art dealer who mainly sells highly eroticized salon paintings.

19:16Now, can we get up some of that, Charlie? Just type in Uncle Scent Hyrule Arothalized salon paintings and I want you to type that in word for word because you're just going to type in porn, aren't you? They're a bit shit. You don't like them? That's the worst painting I've seen today. You don't like them? I think that's quite good. No, it's like a poster. It's actually quite pre-Raphaelite. No, it's a poster of a painting. So these are posters, paintings that are adorning the walls of drinking establishments where there's probably some prostitution is that right or is it garages mechanics garages maybe so he but then when he's working for uncle sent he visits art galleries he starts liking it he then tries to be a preacher like his father yeah but again he can't ever really do something uh in a fun way no uh so he's not a laugh he's not a laugh and that's my problem with artists actually is that they're not laughs the better the art is the worse the hang yeah for sure uh and also they don't have any sense of humor about their art no you know i have a sense of humor about my art yeah well yes yeah yeah you'd hope so well yeah you'd have to yeah imagine i would take it i'm wearing a fucking excuse me excuse me that's a deeply deeply insightful routine about pedophilia and child porn actually it's deeply offensive that you say it's not adding anything to the cultural conversation i want to go on hard talk i want to be interviewed by alan yentob talking about my routine about

20:45imagine with finn taylor yeah i think i first started writing jokes about pedophiles when i was probably 18 and i just found it so funny that there are people out there who think that's okay to do i just never got over that obviously it's not though it's very serious no it's fucking Hilarious, to be honest. Right. So anyway, so he takes, Vincent van Gogh takes Christianity too literally. So he moves to a... Which is quite surreal painter. It's quite funny. Yeah. But maybe he's escaped. I think it's escapism, isn't it? So he moves to a coal mining region. He gives all his possessions away. He sleeps on straw, starves himself, because he thinks in a sort of medieval sense that holy men should suffer.

21:26yeah uh witnesses describe him as gaunt dirty and feral he's one of those people he's like there's always a problem and it's always something else it's always something different but the consistent theme is clearly you yes they always come in and there's always i had the worst weekend ever oh this happened i'm just not feeling up to scratch when have you ever been up to scratch yeah yeah i'm getting sick of these people maybe it's something you're doing how are you permanently on bad form you can't always be on bad that's the under that's the definition of form is it's temporary right yes if either of your sons yeah and hopefully you're gonna have many thanks charlie grew up to be like vincent how are you dealing with that what's the sort of child care cat in the bin

22:11monday night get in there fuck off right go the bin man my son does love the bin man he fucking loves it he loves it he loves it very strange it's a strange age where he's he's ferociously trans i mean he's dressing up yes i was quite trans so like he's trying on my daughter my daughter's birthday she gets loads of tutus and like he's got like a sort of samba jacket with feathers straight to my son he's having that but then he's going out the bin men and go bin men bin men bins bins i took him to the mechanic the other day we had a flat tire and he was watching it in a dress being like tire change the tire i didn't get me i wanted to get under the car and he's just in a full flowing ball gown and i'm like i don't fuck i don't i don't know he's going hard he's binary yeah he's not he's not non-binary he's binary but he's just both soon you'll have to leave london just because of this sort of metropolitan yeah yeah it is it's too it's indulgent it's bourgeois perversion um uh but if yeah if van gogh is your son and he i don't i don't know man i mean you're beating the shit out of him i don't know that i don't think that's gonna help he'd probably like it yeah daddy yeah yeah i think it's just you just have a most dad to some relationships where you speak like twice a year and it's awkward.

23:22Yeah. Is that his dad there? Yeah. I mean, I, I, that's a man right there. Yeah. There's some, there's some times where I look like that when my kids take a real interest in his paintings. Like you could become like horrifically supportive. I think the paintings would collapse immediately. As soon as you start showing interest, the next painting he does is complete crap. it's the inside of his asshole. Yeah. Cause he needs to be, he needs to be problematic. That's what I mean. Would loving his paintings make him stop painting? And you got to think if you're someone who's like van Gogh who's you know you've got to think about the whole human history you've got to sacrifice your relationship for the good of the art anyway the years he spends in Borenage right this coal mining region they're the first indicators of this pattern that will continue throughout his life a sort of self-destructive pattern of obsession sacrifice and ultimately collapse he stops washing he smears coal and mud all over his face in solidarity with the coal miners that he lives near it's a classic story of a middle class person trying to help poor people and all the poor people have been like that's not actually helpful you're just like a stinky why is there another stinky bloke here this is how is this helping at all yes it's London Labour voters it's like can you just wash and just it's not solidarity that you're fucking here shitting all over the place and stuff yeah fucking wipe your arse Zach Polanski come on and his love life is obviously awful he's desperate for intimacy and yet he's rubbing shit all over his face and he's stinky and feral he's a nice guy he's finished last sort of incel yeah yes he is an incel he's a total incel yeah now his cousin uh he gets widowed and then uh and then fucking vincent's like cousin cousin husband's died here we go

25:02he like he finally wipes his ass he's like hang on i'll buy some new trousers cousin single again

25:12right so then he's like brilliant cousin right here we go yeah uh he tries he cracks on yeah and then she's like the fuck are you doing right not only you're a fucking stinky weirdo stinky but we're cousins right she says never yeah never do that again she says no nay never is that the quote is that dyslexia or the quote phoebe okay sorry no nay never pick one of them I don't know. So she rejects him. And then what he does is he holds his hand over like a candle, over a flame in front of her. And he says, I'm going to just keep it there until you go out with me. It's weird, Vincent. Vincent, that's not what girls want.

25:51Yeah, it's really pressuring. So yes, go out with me. And then they just blow the candle out and kick him out of the house. It's sad. Pathetic. Pathetic. And then he moves in with... The big narrative about Van Gogh is like, he was a misunderstood genius. everyone was so cruel to him he was a fucking nightmare everyone understood what he was he was a dirty little rat he'd be kicked out of the house fuck off fuck off fuck off he moved in with someone called Sien Hurnik who's a pregnant alcoholic prostitute don't slack her off fucking triple threat he tries to save her pregnant alcoholic prostitute that's yeah perfect woman dream woman tries to save her but they both get syphilis.

26:38Fucking hell. Fucking hell. What I will say is as we carry on with Bangor's stuff, there's no redeeming. There's no light at all. Yeah. The best thing about him is the paintings. Yeah. And I don't fucking understand what they are. He then, he eventually abandons the prostitute, which, you know, I mean, I guess do your duty a bit, maybe. What is that? Stick by the pregnant Alky prostitute. But did he impregnate her? No, no, no, no, no. Yeah, I guess so. Who knows? What, are you saying? He thinks he's too good for her? well you know have some self-esteem i suppose um he also has this affair with an older neighbor called margot burgeman um he's 31 she's 43

27:25but her family her family says do please do not go out with this man he's horrible and he smells and he's awful. Fair enough. And then she attempts suicide. So he's obviously got, I mean, women do like fucking awful men, don't they? Yeah, I mean, sort of. This is a 43-year-old woman and a pregnant alcoholic prostitute. It's more like no one else is going for them apart from this guy who's not wiping his ass. Right. So she's so desperate for love. Yeah, I don't know if he's pulling a lot of women. Right. So he starts drawing in his late 20s. Down to his late. He sort of fails. He's like the opposite of Hitler in that he fails as a preacher and starts becoming an artist.

28:02yeah yeah so in 1880 decides to become an artist and their lives cross over they their lives do cross over yeah hitler's born uh nine years uh after this um so it'd be great if you hear them both talk about art it would be a great conversation i'd love that yeah fascinating to hear what their two different views are uh he's self-taught obviously and he he likes sketching peasants and workers yeah uh and so his early works were very dark yeah he's a middle corbinite yeah he's insecure about his wealth yes and it's just all about but then just drawing poor people feels a bit fucking creepy yeah if i did that would quite follow caricatures sad fat adolf hitler made very few public comments about vincent van gogh but he reportedly saw reproduction of van gogh's sunflowers and complained to his former associate that the artist's colors are too loud that's hilarious um there was on the 250th anniversary of the national gallery they had a massive van gogh thing this is probably my favorite one not today that's pretty good though when you say so for me that's as good as it gets really yeah that's incredible and the colors there are amazing get the photo up of the american um soldier in vietnam staring at the camera right because that's for me that's as good as it goes well that compares the two then yeah awesome the thousand yard stare the reality of war you see it all in his face it's in profile so you're imagining what's where the camera is and what's happening there and what he's seen and what he's having to do and he's also looks his body put is is the he's so fragile and yet he's so masculine at the same time and it's kind of the i think that the if true effects of war had never been rendered better than in that photograph i mean this is charlie when he's coming on a come down charlie every monday This is as good as it gets for me.

29:52Do you want to read that out, Charlie? Yes, I support LGBT. Just for people listening, just say you've got a meme up. This is as good as art gets. Yes, I support LGBT. Lager gear, beans, toast. Well, you just sort of mean that as well. Yeah. Do you know what? That is a Charlie weekend right there. Lager gear, beans, toast. Do you know what? If the National Gallery had a meme exhibition, I'd fucking go I'd love that if you went to the National Gallery and that was massive I'd be like well it's like Gernica it takes a whole wall yeah whole wall like a gear piece oh where's that pride anyway so come on let's get into some of his paintings so he's early he's done a painting called the potato eaters sounds like a slur it does sound like a slur let's see the potato eaters is that what is he drawing Irish people is he let's have a look this is an early work of Van Gogh the potato eaters yeah so it's always about grim peasant life or like trying to romanticise it's very dark isn't it so it's five people five ugly people in the house eating potatoes fucking hell I've never seen this before the faces are slightly he's still working his craft out though he's in the open mic you can see the effects of the racial science air he's breathing because I'd say the faces are now by today's standards you know if they're on a mural in east london and you're supporting it you're getting kicked out you know yeah okay so again there's a sort of there's a the noble poor i guess is his muse at the moment definitely definitely um and as uh letters from this period reveal this kind of messianic intensity where he's like the more i become spent ill a broken picture the more i am an artist so would you say van gogh is the first like depressed artist well he's probably the archetype he's probably the archetype right yeah the and the idea of like um to make great art you need to live a life of pain and being misunderstood this is where this starts would you say i'd say so yeah but i mean his whole story about how the fact that he was misunderstood while he lived and all of the appreciation happened after he died sort of probably has inspired a lot of shit artists sure who are like no i know that no one likes my stuff now everyone says it's crap and everyone calls me a pedo yeah but when i die yeah whereas i think maybe we'll be the opposite yeah we really appreciate why we live how are they the biggest patron in the uk they're just calling every historical figure a pedophile three times a week how the fuck have they done that this is rubbish this is absolutely slurry because they were wearing suits how on earth they got away with that yeah as soon as as soon as we die this ends they were like fuck I don't know a lot of men will go to their wives and go sorry I don't know why I was so obsessed with that I can't yeah I mean it is we're Jimmy Savile's really yeah I guess he is the reverse Van Gogh yeah it was so obvious the whole time Savile Sir James Savile was never truly appreciated after he died but thankfully he got to see all the appreciation while he lived got every inch of it once he'd got all of it it was like perfect you know my plate is full dead died a happy man um god bless for james savile he died with a smile on his face yeah surrounded by his family and not a skeleton in his closet starting or growing your own business can be intimidating and lonely at times your to-do list may feel endless with new tasks and lists can easily begin to overrun your life.

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35:34Follow the bunker now on your favourite app. You won't want to miss it. In 1991, two hikers in the Alps found a body melting in the ice. They assumed a fallen climber. What they'd actually found was a 5 ,000-year-old murder victim. Welcome to Buried Evidence. Join archaeologist Professor Raksha Dave and me, historian Rebecca Radil, as we dig up some fascinating true crime through history. Launching on Friday the 4th of September, you can find Buried Evidence wherever you watch or listen to your podcasts. Subscribe at thecrimedesk.com and get episodes a week before anyone else. In 1886, Van Gogh moves to Paris.

36:11Now, this is probably your favourite era. I'd say so. I think the late 18th century. Late 19th century. This is fantasy at Paris. This is the Woody Allen film. This is Midnight in Paris. Well, yeah, sort of. Well, so you'd say 1880s to 1920s. Yes. that period I'd say so and then it's their painting every day it feels the most romantic to be an artist at this time yes where you can like lit this is where like absence on the rise the fucking bohemians have you had absence? I have never had absence oh I have and what does it give you psychedelic if you drink a lot of it which Van Gogh does right Van Gogh gets really because this is the beginning of like what was it the Chat Noir the bohemian sort of that fucking poster that single women in their 30s have on their wall BB for sure yeah we went to a immersive so she got me a present which was a present for her yeah which was an immersive uh dining experience of the chat noir fucking hell put a bullet in my head just hearing that you weren't there though i know but i've got to listen to you talk about the next two minutes you killed yourself an immersive you're not even going and you you me yeah god the people spend their money on things people sorry go on yeah and so a lot it felt absinthe i guess was the the gear of the day they didn't have any packet to do yeah yeah so i think it's 70 alcohol and you just drink enough and you start green it's green it's got these compounds yeah so i went to on a when i was uh must have been 17 18 on a school trip to paris and me and my mates Wild Boys we went to Père Lachaise which is the cemetery where Jim Morrison from The Doors we were quite into The Doors at the time so we went and did a little like you know saw the grave and then went to the cafe next door and did the whole thing where you have like a sort of Statue of Liberty but out of steel and then you the little cup you pour the absinthe on then you have a sugar cube and it melts it drips then you go fuck a teenager and you come back and you drink it and yeah so it can cause hallucinations You have to drink quite a lot of it to get there.

38:14Can you get that with like K-Cider? Yes, similar thing. I guess it's just a mouthful. There's a ritual behind K-Cider. You go to the park, you wait till the sun goes down. What's Absinthe like then? Did it make you a better artist? No, I still can't draw, but I tasted slightly of like mouthwash and my eyes began to hurt. Right. It was kind of an instant headache. Right. You know, it's like port. Hungover immediately. You drink port and you're like, why have I done that? I already have fast forwarded it tomorrow. this is awful anyway so but van Gogh starts absolutely hoofing the stuff sure he loves it yeah and so some neurologists today believe that his use of yellows and swirls are a result of the chemical poisoning yeah because well you said your eyes hurt yeah no they genuinely did maybe if you kept going down that that road you'd be a great artist yeah because there's this thing called xanthopesia I don't know how the fuck am I meant to say that xanthopsia xanthopsia which is in absent which makes everything appear tinge with yellow right well maybe it did work and that's why this set's like this so he's in the he's in the air of this Belle Epoque period and he's this is where is this his like is this the montage on the film of his life this is where his best work is done is it I don't think this is where his best work his best work's probably done in Arles when he goes down to the south of France oh right okay so this is the problem with the Paris scene is it's almost too social right because the great artists of Paris and the Belle Epoque there's this it's this great coming together of artists it's everyone's every night they're discussing the theories of where art's going to be and it's just like incredible metropolis he doesn't really of anywhere i'd rather let's be in paris but firstly right listening to artists talk about art bullet bullet bullet so you got the pair of shoes up that's a it was interesting fucking hell shoes up old lesbian hiking boots but there was an essay about the difference between modernist art and post-modern art comparing those shoes to the warhol shoes and those shoes are it's a peasant shoes that reflect a wider life right you see that it's a pair of peasant shoes and it evokes something i would say that the the use of the light in that painting how however he's done that is amazing yeah because yeah i don't understand how i'd even get as a subject someone's worn old shoes it leads you to think certain things it implies a life beyond it that's modernist art in many ways Two chewed up old leather boots, never worn.

40:40Sure, fine. Sad story. And then he compared that, this is an essay I was reading, with Warhol's ballet shoes. So this is postmodern art, which he's basically saying postmodern art's crap. Which I would agree with. Yeah, it's from an ad, and then he's just stripped them of its colour and reprocessed it. And all postmodern art really does is just recontextualise other forms of media. And he said that's the kind of contrast between... Yeah, because there's no skill to Warhol's thing at all. Yeah, it's just recontextualizing it. It's kind of playing on advertising, commercialism. Yeah. Whereas modernist art, it's sort of like, it implies a world beyond it.

41:15I mean, now it's just doing a poo on the floor, isn't it? Now it is. That's art now. Yeah. Yeah. Recontextualizing poo. But Van Gogh is painting a poo on the floor. But yeah, that would be the difference. Yeah, there is. He would paint a peasant's poo, and you'd see from that poo a life lived. But this is where, in Paris, he starts to get influenced by all the Impressionist stuff, and he abandons all the dark colors yeah and this way he discovers basically he discovers yellow yeah right is there a change in the paints that are available like his egg white come in or something it feels like so what's the technology the painting of the cafe with the big yellow that's all oh is that you can go there now and it's like a tourist trap yeah okay so but in paris he develops the big swirling yeah thick paint yeah so that's in the really bright and bright colors um so i guess there's no one else doing bright colors why is he why is he standing out from the crowd apart from the he's a fucking mad cunt i think his understanding of color is so much more extraordinary than anyone else's in the whole history of art i think that's why he stands out probably the most is that his ability to depict scenes and his choice of color and his way of mastering basically is kind of unparalleled but by color do you mean the impact it has on on light it impacts as a light on emotion on feeling on just the the how the colors he can get out of paint so he just had more colors i think the choice of colors i guess right what are your favorite colors well that's a good question that's charlie to be fair that's a good question what's your favorite color well it depends if to wear or to um i think just in the more childlike sense um probably a really poppy kind of royal blue yeah that makes sense i see you go for the blue suits often yeah what's your favorite color charlie red really you don't strike me as a red no but you're very impulsive yeah but that's like first page of porn hub color red's the first color yeah it's like a two-year-old black and orange are his favorite colors

43:24my favorite color is forest green probably forest green rovers yeah um but red is funny because i feel no one says red past the age of two or for some reason yeah do you know what i mean no one says red no because red's like the first one you choose and then you have to define yourself against it grow up in 1888 he leaves to go to the south of france and this is probably his richest period with a guy called Goggin now who's he is he another artist he's another post impressionist I imagine right and they both admired each other Goggin so if he had sex with lots of people it'd be a Goggin yes yes it would not David Goggins Charlie come on David Goggins David Goggins who's going to carry the paintbrushes at first they admired each other but soon Van Gogh's personality comes out sorry on gogan did gogan end his life going as a sex tourist or is that someone else so a lot of these french painters that you used to die hero and live long enough to become a sex tourist no genuinely because van gogh killed himself so he didn't live long enough to go to a lot of french paints because you know they had a lot of pacific islands the french clone yes polynesia yeah so they became fascinated with the kind of indigenous form this is more your speed i'm listening i'm listening where the impressionist painter as opposed to just um to pitching victorians at the beach they're like we got new faces and heads to draw and so they'd move out to like french polynesia tahiti and then they'd fuck all the young girls out there and then fair enough so in all where they have this house which van gogh wants to make like a okay it's sort of it's kind of like artistic phrenology yeah in a way but again phrenology phrenology is a science it is a science but this is phrenology if it was an art but it's not an art it's a definite science and it has boundaries and it has rules and that's why i like it okay so i was trying to no i know i was trying to create a bridge and all the branch but the problem is is that you're bridging the humanities with the sciences phrenology is an exact science yeah okay yeah anyway this is where it paints the yellow house yeah which is another famous one very famous the only famous the only one i know is a self-portrait in the starry night those are the two that i know you know the bedroom what the bedroom you know van gogh's bedroom i know you do know look that one you know that one of his bed you've seen that yeah i have yeah you've seen loads i didn't think i was van gogh i thought that was just like a kid who did that i mean that's not a million miles from the shit on my fridge i'll be honest no that's yeah yeah that's crap it's not crap that is crap that is crap it's it's extraordinary why is it extraordinary Look at that, the actual technique on show.