Brazilian Dignitas | The Berlin Wall

28:50And the music. The rock music. The Beatles are in Hamburg at this point. Yeah. You know? And so there's a dance called the Lipsy, which is, is that a specific move? So this is youth culture in East Germany. Yeah. And so to compare this, this is in 59. So in the West, you've got Chuck Berry, you've got Elvis. Yeah. You've got women throwing their panties at men. it's pretty stodgy stuff yeah i imagine fingering wasn't allowed yeah hip gyrations are forbidden yeah so elvis down on hip gyrations because what starts as hip it corrupts the youth it does corrupt the youth becomes twerking yeah um so yeah i mean is charlie not a product of western decadence could you say 100 i mean because it is interesting now that we've lived in capitalism for so long there's there are definitely pros and cons to the system you know and they're definitely sometimes you're like, maybe we have gone too far with indulgence.

29:43Yes. Look at OnlyFans, you look at Bonnie Blue, you look at, you know, Charlie has a job. This is your Islamist streak coming out. It does come out sometimes. You start talking about capitalism, you do get quiet. I mean, weirdly you say that, my TikTok's gone straight back on to like edits of Harj again and it's getting me fired up again. Yeah. Yeah. I'm ready. But yeah, I think if an East German lists this podcast, they would view this as some of the moral failings of the West. Yes. Oh, a hundred percent. You know, Lizzie and Charlie tell his stories about putting a pool ball up a bully's bum and then sucking on it.

30:13I didn't want to do that. But, you know, I don't... Still did, though. Yeah. Well, yeah, because I have to... But that's the pressure. That's the pressure of capitalism. You know, ethics are eroded, but... Is it? Or is it communism? Is it communism? Well, you're sharing a pool ball. I don't know. Yeah, but it's a bum pool ball. It doesn't have, like, a practical use. I'm not sharing it. I'm the only one that had to put it in his fucking mouth. you said that like you said that like you had no choice in the matter I didn't have any choice I'd have been outcast I'd rather have the pooey pool ball in my head this is Stasi stuff sort of I'd love to see the Stasi documents on you I'd love to see the lives of others but they're all listening to Charlie is he throwing poo into the I don't think I could be right he's trying to throw us off to the center I don't know if I could write this in the document this is crazy you're throwing poo into the toilet from six feet away just reading that kind of dry german document just explaining blow by blow but you're so open no one can inform on you so you're kind of untouchable from a starzy perspective yeah because you're openly no blackmail no because you're openly saying i am a pedophile to a to a to an audience of 300 000 people an episode you say i am a pedophile so what how can you be blackmailed because they're like oh you're a pedo yeah yeah yeah what else and then do you know in the office since he said that he keeps goes up to me and goes, I really can't be a pedophile now.

31:36I'm like, no, no, no. You can't be one anyway. You can't be one anyway. Not just because you've said you are for a joke. Yeah. I mean, that was never the plan, but I definitely can't now. But you could have been anyway. I think you're more, you can more. You guys are fucking pedo. No, I think you can now more than before. He's angry at that. If anything. Because you can now more than before. Because if you were a pedo, it would be like, to be fair, he did say it. Why are we getting angry at him? Sorry. That's the most Charlie moment of the podcast. You're talking at him. Huh?

32:11What the fuck's going on? Anyway, David Byrne describes the ellipsy as a weird, sexist, popular dance. There you go. Concerts start happening in the West, you know. Increasingly, obviously, the Beatles are coming over. I don't think they ever play in West Berlin, but a radio DJ joked that the Rolling Stones could play on the roof by the wall so that the East Berliners could hear them. and then thousands of East Germans show up at the wall thinking it's going to happen. They've got nothing to do. They do have nothing to do. That's the problem. Well, they have allocated leisure, but it's compulsory buttlins.

32:45And you could earn a lot of money. But without Peter Andre. Yeah. You're not watching any... But that's it. At least you've got Peter Andre. Who are they showing up to see? Who's Red Elvis? There's a guy called Red Elvis who's state-approved Elvis. It's impossible for anything to be cool if it's old. rip off it's vegan meat it's not he's not even just that it's more it's your dad it's your your dad has chosen everything that you consume yes it's the whole point of being cool is going against fuck you mom yeah it's the opposite of that thank you mom for thank you mom for that incredible music yeah me and my friends enjoy thank you mom for dinner thank you i'm gonna go to my room now thank you mom uh dean reed who was an american singer who was a communist sympathizer and he sort of he settled in East Germany I think oh from West because basically people thought Beatlemania Ulbricht says that Beatlemania is the work of the devil yes and it's like the capitalist devil yeah to be fair at the time I do think it's an extraordinary cultural phenomenon that they've never had anything like this or the audience the journey of the audience's take from you know cabaret the 20s they're still sat around tables smoking you know jazz there's frantic dancing girls to be screaming and throwing pants yeah to an audience that have lived through the war and have been like in germany hundreds of years before there was the witch trials where a guy was concentration camping women he found attractive yes he accusing them of witchcraft now they're literally all throwing their pants at you know men yeah it's already you know his prophecy has come true starting or growing your own business can be intimidating and lonely at times.

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35:42That's shopify.com slash realm. I didn't like what you said, Odin pauses, about the future. This is the love story of real hinge couple Odin and Edward, written and read by me, Curtis Garner. Listen to the free audiobook now. Star Wars The Mandalorian and Grogu is now streaming on Disney+. What are you waiting for? Hop on. The must-see galactic adventure comes home. on Disney+. This is the way. Our only chance is to work together. I like this kid. Always wear your seatbelt. Star Wars The Mandalorian and Grogu now streaming on Disney+. Read PG-13. Now Bowie obviously West Berlin becomes a big cultural moment in the 70s.

36:39Bowie and Brian Eno go there. A lot of Bowie's most famous songs come from the Berlin Trilogy. and then eventually Bob Dylan and Bruce Springsteen perform in East Berlin in 1988 and a lot of people think this is the start of the end for the GDR. They've just lost the culture war basically. They have, exactly. This is the actual culture war. Because there's actually culture in it. Yes. The problem with this culture war is it's not really, there's no, it's not culture. No. It's more, you know, it's pronouns and fucking racism. What is culture? Huh? What would you define culture? Well, I mean, it's more like an artistic movement or a way of seeing the world or, you know.

37:19Anything that's not work. Or sex. Sex is not culture? I think sex is culture. There's a sex culture. It's part of culture. Yeah, but I think the word culture, like when people say there's like a, there's rape culture. Do you know what I mean? Yes. Is that culture? Yeah. What cultures do we... There's live cultures in kefir yogurt. Yeah. So culture does get used a lot. What about yogurt rape culture? What's that? For live yogurt rape culture? Yeah. What's that? Kimir. Kefir? No, Kimir. Kimir, love.

38:01Oh, good stuff. Now, but there was a complaint system in all this, to be fair, to the East German state. Yeah. There was a system called Eingarben, where people, basically it was like a complaints board where people could complain saying, can we have some more some nicer state approved dresses? Yeah. Because obviously all the clothes are prescripted. There's one car, the Trabant, the Trabi, which... And you have to be on a waiting list for years to even get that. Like a Rolex, but for a shit car. Yeah. But this car is maybe, it's maybe fairly good in 1961, but they never improve it. Update it, yeah.

38:36So by the 80s, it's like a sort of 10cc car. But the train tickets are very cheap and they've got great public transport. So it's the sort of the two sides of it. So let's get in. Now, one of the best things about East Germany is they have state-run pornography. All right, yeah. Talking about the difference between East Germany and West Germany when it comes to homosexuality, the Nazis had introduced quite a strict version of the anti-homosexual law where anything - What do you mean by strict? Anything homosexual in nature, not just sex between men, was criminalised. So kissing and holding hands between men punished.

39:13I didn't realise they had to wear a pink triangle in concentration camps. I didn't know that. Where's their story? Where's the queer concentration camp film? Where is it? I mean, surely that's got an Oscar written all over it. Double whammy. Bels. Bels and Mountain, but. Oh, that's nice. Yeah. Buchenwald Mountain. Anyway. Arsweets is good, to be fair.

39:40I wonder what that did because you're in a concentration camp. Do you think there's any homophobic Jewish guys in there who are like, well, you can't stand next to him. I want to share a room with him. He's going to front me. It's a good point, actually. Just because the Jews are victims here doesn't mean they're blameless. Yeah, because... But I mean, the Jews, they all have to wear the Star of David so they've been ostracized. But then if you've got another star, I wonder if you get ostracized by the ostracized. But then do you feel like, oh, I want another badge. I'm doing well. I don't know.

40:07Do I get a thrilling badge? I don't think so I don't know what if you had a star David and a pink triangle yeah and a frosty swimming badge yeah hang on what's that doing I don't think that's relevant so East Germany got rid of this Nazi law West Germany retains it until the 70s so 50 ,000 convictions under the Nazi homosexual law in West Germany interesting but in the East this is very funny in the East they don't they liberate sexuality but they also think that homosexuality is a symptom of western decadence yeah it's like yeah it's capitalism what is it bourgeois perversion yeah yeah i love the idea that being gay is a bourgeois yeah for not it's like oh real people aren't gay salt the earth isn't gay that's the only time you do if you're like born into money it's saying it's a lifestyle but that's what i mean it's it's saying it's uh it's homophobia from a marxist perspective right yeah where you're folding it into a class narrative yeah rather than like a religious thing of like brother yeah it's like how dare you betray your roots and suck that man off.

41:09Yeah, yeah, yeah. Brother, uh. Exactly. So, the Stasi starts to try and counter what it deems as perversions and Western decadence by producing its own porn films. Yes. Can we have a look at... This is the number one problem. It's just, it's all... Theresa May is making the porn films. She shouldn't be making porn. Theresa May should not be working... Now, there's Trust. I've watched anything Trust makes. Charlie, can you try and find some posters for some of this East German porn? one of them was uh one one film a topless female recruit in a helmet leaps her attention at the command breasts out that's not bad i mean um there's another scene where a male worker in a medical room is waiting to be seen by a female doctor she enters and orders the man to strip to the waist but i am your med mechanic insists the male worker the doctor immediately unbutton her white coat and offers the worker instant sex because she's so grateful to have found somebody to repair her car in a country almost devoid of mechanics and that's made by the state there's a department of pornography which employs 160 people and 12 amateur enthusiasts which is great because it's clearly like no matter where you are in germany no matter the system there are people who want to be amateur enthusiasts yeah the gentleman's photographers yeah i'll help i'm more on a volunteer basis yeah baby no um i'm doing it for honor so there are they make 12 films between 82 and 89 and the party elite and military officers attend premieres uh with attendance logged for possible blackmail so good it's just folding in on itself it's crazy so they're making porn and then they're making a log of who's watching the porn just in case they have a look at this you're watching that yeah i'm making a note yeah i'm watching it now and interestingly uh i listen to a podcast where they're talking about the after effects and today there's still a massive cultural divide between east and west germany in the east germans uh they make more sex tapes than their Western German counterparts.

43:02They also have kids younger because it was subsidised. And childcare is much better in East Germany. Still. Still. And they... So they have... Which is great in Berlin, isn't it? Oh, fuck me. It's insane. I've got a mate who lives in Berlin. Yeah. And they had a kid. And the wife, she doesn't have to... Our mate, she doesn't have to go back to work for three years if she doesn't want to. And the childcare's free. just get some fucking holiday it's crazy it's madness and nurseries are free yeah until school I mean I guess you know I guess they're indoctrinating them with some pretty fruity ideas and that's the sure anyway movies with titles like Glass Dreams Private Werner's Big Surprise and Fucking for the Fatherland were made by a secret unit set up within a barracks of the army in Beesdorf in East Berlin right wow and also there's a huge nudist culture Yes.

43:58Because... But I love that shit anyway. You go to like a sauna in the Baltics or Germany. We should go to Verbali, which is a sauna outside Berlin. It's a fully nude sauna and you can have crumble and be naked. Yeah. I don't think I want crumble in sauna, personally. You have crumble after sauna. Yeah. But interestingly, so there's a massive nudism culture, which they think... think uh well it says here public nudity is seen by the state as egalitarian and secular and that people appear as equals with their clothes off that's not true a new hierarchy emerges exactly a different hierarchy a more have you seen embarrassing bodies oh my god yeah some people are not born equal let's just say that now people some people's bodies are uglier to look at.

44:48For some people, some people really like clothes. Okay? I really like clothes. Clothes are brilliant. Clothes save me from a lot of hassle. Clothes bring, I think are very egalitarian. Yes, they are. They leave a lot to the imagination. There is, listen, there's a point where it's, everyone's naked and unequal, and then everyone puts clothes on and they're equal, and then some people have better clothes. Charlie, I heard the airdrop, Did it? Because I knew you were transferring something. Why are you doing this? It's a picture of Charlie's ball.

45:23We won't be able to show that in the episode. So why have you done that? No, we will. We will. And if not, at least you've seen it. We've already seen your cock. You showed it to us on a live stream. You've also shown this video before. Yeah. I just want to make sure it's definitely in one of the episodes. Producer wants to get his balls in an episode. It's fucking crazy. He's an amateur enthusiast. I thought you guys had found something, some German porn thing. because you were scurrying about that there, but you were just trying to airdrop a photo of your balls. That was in London. Jesus Christ.

45:53Anyway, I was making an important point about how clothes are actually critical for equality. Yeah. But the state thing, the nudity is good because it's sort of secular and frees you from God in a way and it's like removing all trappings of capitalism. Why does it free you from God, do you think? Is it because it's how tight-lipped the Lutheran Christian church is? so it's because i guess in christianity it's adam and eve right but that's what i mean is that the whole notion of shame and covering up our notions of it come from the bible theology and communism trying to rid people of uh of trying to destroy religion um and so nudism is an attempt to try and reorder life away from christian reality towards a secular one uh but they also think weirdly they think that east germans took to it more because it's like they feel freer yeah because they they have no freedom in other parts of their lives well like you know in a world where one in six people might be having might have like a little camera in their tie yeah no one's got a fucking camera up their ass you'd hope or it's much easier to spot an East German Stasi member when you're naked there's a fucking what every time he clenches a flashbulb goes off yeah he pulls a little cord but yeah I do I do I would like to counter that I do think clothes clothes are clothes are brilliant I fucking love clothes.

47:11Yeah, great invention. Terrific. Do you ever kind of like making tea naked or anything like that? I walk around in little slutty house shorts in my house when it's this hot. Little shorts. Yeah, denim cutoffs. They're called dick shorts is what we call them at uni. Shorts where at any moment you can just flop out. And you have a big pink whistle and you... Yeah, I wear a big bonnet. Yeah. It's hot. Mesh vest. Oh, it's so hot. I do... This is the worst time to be straight in the summer. Yes. It's the gay season. it is at the most powerful the straight should retreat we should we should hibernate until winter until winter when the darkness descends yeah and the I mean it's pride month as well it is pride month yeah they're the most powerful they are they take energy from the sun gays they photosynthesize I believe I believe that's where they get their energy they don't sleep gay people they recharge in the sun they spend all night sucking each other off in toilets I think I think I'm an amateur homologist yeah arsehole sunning yeah exactly this is a tough time to be straight this summer, but we're plowing through to give you, the listeners, crucial information about East Germany.

48:15Oh, we need to get into sport, though, because East Germany, from the beginning, is obsessed with... Oh, hello, a bit of rabbit for the dog to see there. Naked woman on the beach. A lovely bit of 70s growler on show as well. What's the GDR state line on growlers, please, Charlie? Could you find that out? Charlie? Charlie? Charlie? I'm just making it balanced. What did you type in? German car. Charlie, could you, a little job for you, because I think I've noticed that the episode's a lot easier when you're given a task, right? Could you find out what the state line on pubic hair in the GDR was, please?

48:55Keep you busy for a bit. Right. Now, there's a massive culture of sport in East Germany from the beginning. So the exercise is like sort of mandatory. there's footage of a Walter Ubrecht like leading hundreds of people in kind of public exercise but of course you know they subsidize athletes in sports clubs but they also use systematic doping particularly on women and so steroids are administered pre-puberty to promising female athletes and there's a woman called or rather should I say there's a person called andrius krieger oh you've become so woke i will i'm reading this for the first time okay and i don't know what the end of the story is uh there's a bloke called andrius krieger who oh no there's not there's a oh i don't oh you've got me brilliant brilliant put me in jail yeah fucking hog tie me and tell me to jail yeah you got me i did it easy trap i misgendered whatever whatever she is you're a mouse going for some cheese and then you're in a mouse trap yeah a trans trap so there's a woman called heidi yeah who's a woman who wins gold for shot put okay okay so right come on she's already so she's halfway there you should have started this part of the script where there's a shot put uh there's a woman competing in shot put yeah right which means she's a bloke yeah okay in the 1986 european championships a woman called heidi wins gold in shot put yeah But from the age of 16, she had been doped with steroids that had an androgenic effect on the body.

50:32So she undergoes gender-affirming surgery in 1997. And now known as Andreas, say his name, testifies in 2000 at the trial of East German sports officials. And it said that the state-sponsored drugs contributed to his transsexuality, depriving him of the right to find out for myself which sex I wanted to be. I'll just interrupt you there to say that you were doing shot put. So I reckon it was pretty obvious from early on. They just spotted something in you that you didn't own yourself. You think you should be grateful. Any woman who does shot put, come on. State-sanctioned transitions. Stop lying to yourself, all right?

51:11Is it because the doping was pumping her full of testosterone? I think so. Or steroids and stuff. Now, was there a formal state policy of... Charlie, what have you found? There was no formal state policy. On pubes? On pubes, no. Okay. But the Stasi did make a note of people's pubic hair lengths. Yeah. And they kept it in jars as well, just to make sure. So football's obviously... East Germany at some point beat West Germany in 74. So they have some muffs in the wall of smells. Muff huffing in the wall of smells. For the good of the state. What do you do? I'm a civil servant. Oh, yeah, what department?

51:47Oh, I'm half muffs. I'm a muff huffer at the moment. I'm a muff huffer at the moment. But probably moving to foreign policy at some point. You've got to start somewhere. I'm huffing muffs in the air. Anyway, so we haven't even fucking talked about Honecker, who comes in in 71. He replaces Albrecht. And his reign is increasingly defined by dependence on West Germany. Does he have a sort of Khrushchev moderniser effect after Albrecht? Does he open up a bit? I think he's more hamstrung by like, there's a big coffee crisis in 1977. Yes, that's kind of quite emblematic of all their problems. They love coffee, the Germans.

52:24They're obsessed with it. It's like British tea. In the coffee crisis, which is where there's a bad harvest in Brazil or something. Anyway. They chucked a bunch of coffee trees off a cliff without actually planting them. And you can still see the effects of that today, actually. We're living through the great bungee crisis of 2026. So they consume around three and a half kilos of coffee per person each year. coffee basically it doesn't arrive in the late 70s which means they have to make state branded coffee which is cut with like fucking pea protein and stuff and it clogs the machines and anyway they hate it um so there's a policy instant coffee basically really shit there's a thing called ostpolitik which is willie brant in the west who decides to try and um detente ease relations between the two um and let's just get to i think the end the collapse of the GDR, which, this is a very, very funny moment, actually.

53:27The way the Berlin Wall collapses is... I didn't know it was over, yeah, I didn't know the moment was so funny. It's so, yeah, it's so funny, it's so un-German as well. Yeah. So who's the man called? Is he called Schlebowski or something? Because this is like, this is, when you're going through like a time span of history, the Fall of the Berlin Wall is like modern history, 9-11, Fall of the Berlin Wall. It's like a bookmark at the end of the 20th century. yeah um gunter schabowski okay who's a senior this is i don't know this is sort of the moment yeah the whole of communism collapses is here i don't know he fucks it yeah now obviously there's there's loads of trends it's all moving towards uh this but they're sort of the the starting gun is is this yeah so there's been a lot of pressure in the late 80s uh a lot of student pressure um chenobal has happened recently has happened younger younger people are starting to revolt more generally.

54:20People are on the streets. There's like demonstrations because as I said there's a very literate educated population with nowhere to put that energy. So a man called Gunther Schabowski has been told by the higher ups that they're going to start easing travel restrictions slowly from east to west Berlin. However, by this point there's already a new escape route opening up. The Hungarian border has opened with Austria which means it's easy to get out of the east. So the officials are like, okay, we're going to start slowly phasing out the strictness of the Berlin Wall, blah, blah, blah, travel restrictions.

55:01But it's meant to be slow and over like months and years requiring official permission. Now, Schabowski is an official who's basically gets back from a plane journey, is in a car, has all his papers. There's a handwritten note. about this policy that he's like, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then he gets, it's a press conference on the 9th of November, 1989, which we should probably place. 1989. So. It's before Berghain becomes a sex club. Yes. And it's after whatever Berghain was before. Yes. Power plant. So it's between it being a power plant and a poo plant. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. so Schabowski is told, Schabowski is asked at a press conference, when do these new travel restrictions take place?

55:55And he says, as far as I know, private individuals can now apply to travel abroad without the previously existing requirements. Permanent exit is possible via all border crossings. And is he sort of free balling that? Is that true? That's not, it wouldn't be gradual. No, that's not true. And then he said, I'm expressing myself carefully because I'm not up to date on the question. I was only told this just before. Then they're asked when does this take effect? And he goes as far as I know immediately without delay. So he fucks it. He completely fucks it. And so that then thousands of people start swarming towards the wall and the guards on the ground haven't been told any of this.

56:36They then don't know what to do but they're faced with swelling crowds so they open the gates and this then means that now is this when people start actually hammering the wall down as well. Does that just spring out of naturally? Yeah, I think so. I think people then start climbing the wall. I think my dad got on a plane and just went to the Berlin Wall. To see it. Just to see it, because it seemed like everyone wanted to see what was going on. It felt like a historic moment. November the 10th, 89, the Mauer Spectre, the wall woodpeckers, people hacked off chunks of souvenirs. And then on the 31st of 89, David Hasselhoff performs looking for freedom on a crane above hanging from a crane above the wall and they're like can you rebuild the wall actually that's awful that's absolutely awful i don't want what the west is offering that is decadence in personified hasselhoff in a winch above the berlin wall no no thank you mr gorbachev rebuild that wall they realized they weren't missing out we weren't no we had it pretty good actually you know you were keeping stuff from us and we didn't know that yeah um So basically, Germany reunifies very quickly after that.

57:42The West German Chancellor, Helmut Kohl, presents a 10-point plan like two weeks later to reunify. And then the only free East German election on the 18th of March, 1990, produces a parliament committed to unification and they unify properly in 1990. At midnight on the 3rd of October, the GDR ceases to exist. All elections prior to that had been called paper folding because they were given a piece of paper with who'd won the election. They put that in a box. they'd throw it off a cliff with no fucking exactly with no things right um and so germany is reunified in october 1990 and now the wall is a uh a magnet for graffiti artists and perverts how the east has fallen how the east has fallen it's a sad day in east germany now uh where it's just it's basically just one big um graffiti graffiti canvas for perverts and hippies to scroll on.

58:37But a kind of quite a fascinating history, unique history, a very strange one. What have you learned over this series, Charlie? Tonga does not have a secret police. Yeah, that's true. That's true. So you can go and do what you want in Tonga, I guess. And we're going to Bergheim as a three. We're going to be chained together at Bergheim and whatever happens, happens. Happens. And we'll keep doing the podcast afterwards. No matter what. No matter what. So on the Patreon this week, we're talking about the lives of others a brilliant film The Documentary of Starsy just watch it anyway it's an absolute banger £3 a month you get access to a bonus episode every week as well as early access to series this has been the Berlin Wall and East Germany thank you for your time and we'll see you next week for a brand new topic Auf Wiedersehen Cheers

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