Calvin Goes Acoustic | The Reformation (Part 3/4)

25 May 2026 · 55 min · 19 chapters

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In short

Part 3/4 of a Reformation series, focusing on Jean Calvin’s move from France to Geneva, the rise of Calvinism, and how Calvinism spreads to Scotland through John Knox, shaping Presbyterianism and later English/American Protestant culture.

Guest backgrounds

No guests are clearly identified in the transcript. The episode is a conversation between the hosts (including “ratio gould” and “Glenn Washington” is mentioned as Snap Judgment host, but not as a guest for this segment).

Key claims

Calvin is portrayed as a “French lawyer” who builds a society, not just personal faith; Geneva becomes an ordered, clock-obsessed “boring Protestant utopia.” Calvinism is described as predestination plus moral “signs,” rejecting transubstantiation, and emphasizing disciplined worship. John Knox is framed as Calvin’s student who drives the Scottish Reformation and founds Presbyterianism, including anti-monarchist church governance.

Notable examples

The “affair of the placards” (1534) leading to Calvin fleeing to Geneva; Geneva’s 1541 ecclesiastical ordinances (pastors/doctors/elders/deacons); Knox’s “First blast of the trumpet” against women rulers; Knox meeting Mary Queen of Scots and making her cry; Presbyterianism’s “plain room” church aesthetic and emphasis on Bible reading.

Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.

Chapters

Tap a time to open that second in VO

The Legacy of John Calvin

0:00 to 0:29

Exploring John Calvin's impact and background in the Protestant Reformation.

“Ryan Reynolds here for Mint Mobile with your summer price forecast.”

The Legacy of John Calvin

1:42 to 2:56

Exploring John Calvin's impact and background in the Protestant Reformation.

Calvin's Life and Beliefs

2:56 to 7:25

Discussion on Calvin's character, his conversion, and his intellectual contributions.

“Now, who, what, why is Calvin and the chipmunks?”

The Affair of the Placards

7:25 to 13:16

An overview of the key events leading to the Affair of the Placards in 1534.

“Where would England go to forget itself if France is not there?”

The Affair of the Placards

13:44 to 14:00

An overview of the key events leading to the Affair of the Placards in 1534.

“Ryan Reynolds here for Mint Mobile with your summer price forecast.”

Calvin's Conversion and the Affair of the Placards

14:17 to 16:28

Explore Calvin's journey from lawyer to Protestantism and the events of 1534.

“We get to the clash of the lanyards, the affair of the placards.”

Calvin's Theological Shift in Geneva

16:28 to 20:08

Understand Calvin's teachings on predestination and morality in Geneva.

“placards are you taking the piss um and so he clamps down on uh the reformers uh which means John Calvin flees France to Geneva.”

Life Under Calvin's Reforms

20:08 to 24:03

Learn about the societal changes and strict morals introduced by Calvin.

“There's just nowhere else in the world that this has really come at all.”

John Knox and the Spread of Calvinism

24:03 to 27:20

Discover John Knox's role in the spread of Calvinism in Scotland.

“And Swiss people are some of the most boring people you ever meet.”

Cultural References and Humor

27:20 to 28:00

Engage with humorous cultural references intertwined with theological discussions.

“And this is where we get to the second hero of the story, John Knox.”
Show all 19 chapters

Tisky and Craft Beer Jokes

28:00 to 29:05

A humorous discussion about beers with absurd names while referencing history.

“Anyway, so John Knox is a, he starts, and this just sums up, this just sums up Scottish culture.”

The Early Life of John Knox

29:05 to 31:14

Exploration of John Knox's early life, his role as a bodyguard, and his capture.

“He's a bodyguard to a Protestant preacher called George Wishart, and he holds a massive broadsword, right?”

Knox's Return to Scotland

31:14 to 33:50

Knox's return to Scotland and his views on church reform and Protestantism.

“Scotland's much like the rat landing in Venice to start the Black Death, but instead it's...”

Knox's Return to Scotland

34:13 to 35:28

Knox's return to Scotland and his views on church reform and Protestantism.

“Your to-do list may feel endless with new tasks, and lists can easily begin to overrun your life.”

Knox's Return to Scotland

36:38 to 37:05

Knox's return to Scotland and his views on church reform and Protestantism.

“He starts, basically, he starts all these riots.”

Knox's Legacy and the Scottish Reformation

38:18 to 40:55

Discussion on Knox's influence on Protestantism and Scottish history.

“So yeah, so she returns to now Protestant Scotland having been in exile.”

Anglicanism vs. Presbyterianism

40:55 to 42:05

Comparison of Anglicanism and Presbyterianism with a humorous lens.

“There was too many factions, so she just goes right down the middle and said, let's just cherry pick a bit of this.”

The Dynamics of Anglicanism and Presbyterianism

42:05 to 55:36

Explore the contrasting characteristics of Anglicanism and Presbyterianism in relation to church decor and societal norms.

“Honestly, if you ever stop believing in it, just go.”

The Dynamics of Anglicanism and Presbyterianism

56:04 to 56:37

Explore the contrasting characteristics of Anglicanism and Presbyterianism in relation to church decor and societal norms.

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Transcript

Automatic transcript. May contain errors.

0:00Ryan Reynolds here for Mint Mobile with your summer price forecast. Now, unfortunately, we're seeing rising costs across the country with possibility that big wireless hates you 100%. Now, over here at Mint Mobile, we're seeing sunny skies and dropping prices. Every plan to just$15 a month. Give it a try at mintmobile.com slash switch. Upfront payment of$45 for three months,$90 for six months, or$180 for 12-month plan required. $15 per month equivalent. Taxes and fees extra. New customer offer for initial plan term only. Greater than 50 gigabytes may slow when network is busy. See terms. This episode is brought to you by ChatGPT.

0:33Hey, it's Bill Simmons from the Bill Simmons Podcast. Have you guys heard about ChatGPT work? It's the new way to use ChatGPT for bigger multi-step projects. And when you need more than just answers, give ChatGPT work access to your apps and files, and it can create real work documents like spreadsheets, slides, and structured reports. Get started at ChatGPT.com by selecting work mode available on Plus and Pro Plans. I'm Glenn Washington. This is Snap Judgment from KQED. When everything is falling apart, what do you do? Hurricane Helene shut everything down. No roads, no cars, no way through. But his daughter was getting married.

1:15And somehow, someway, he was going to walk her down that aisle. All systems down. A new Snap Judgment miniseries from KQED. Tap to listen now.

1:42welcome back to finverse history joining me to ratio gould hello and this is an urgent discussion on calvin nox and our true intellectual heirs yeah when you say urgent you mean that this is urgent i need to get this out all right okay i'm fired up yeah you're on the toilet it's been 17 hours i can't i need to talk about john knox yeah and john calvin this has really fired you up this is in between these episodes you're rifling through it you're giggling to yourself you're giddy you're like a mad man this is my heritage yeah this is my psychological architecture right he is the architect you know the end of the matrix where he meets the architect yeah that's me meeting john calvin because i'm only there's only a little bit of me so it's only it only explains a very small part of me but for you this is this is all of me i read john calvin and i just it all makes sense right with part three of our series on the reformation we've dealt with martin luther done done we've dealt with him done we've killed him killed luther now the peace of augsburg because where we left off last time, an easy truce between Lutherans and Catholics, but it left out Calvinism.

2:56Now, who, what, why is Calvin and the chipmunks? Jean Calvin, unbelievably, he's French. I couldn't believe it. I still can't believe this. I thought he was a Swiss fuck, but it turns out that hidden amongst in the toilet what I will say is that he's the bravest Frenchman who's ever lived and he's the only Frenchman whose hand I'd like to shake is Jean de Calvin but he has his name has been anglicized because it makes more sense in English than French Jean Calvin does not make sense doesn't it it's John Calvin it's not John Pork Charlie I love John Pork Jean de Calvin or John Calvin in the same way that when i watched the manosphere documentary i was like this is such an anglo-american thing i can't imagine a french man oh the dirty bitch look at my money oh like it doesn't make sense does it the little french kiss protestant manosphere in some ways yes it's about the hustle grind so yes taking going outside the matrix catholic church as you were saying yeah that's what andrew tate's saying take it basically grabbing your own life by the bootstraps and we are all fallen we're all neo in the fucking thing what was up to us how we live exactly in France it's the muscle wine set the muscle wine set rather than the hustle grind set what's the muscle like as in muscles the food more free right yeah is the muscle wine set I think the hustle wine set is probably better no I like muscle wine set muscle but yeah is it muscles yeah I guess so but it sounds like it's too much like that I think it's the they're waking up drinking wine Truffle wine set is good.

4:37It's less hustle wine set, more truffle wine set. That is good. We've got to go in the end. A couple of plays and misses, but we've got this. You've had a couple of misses this series, but you've opened this episode with a corker. A crisp one, yeah. So Jean de Calvin, the bravest Frenchman, the only brave Frenchman, you could say. The only one you could shake his hand without surrendering. Exactly, yeah. You could shake his hand and he actually shakes it. Oh, no, please, I'm sorry. Take my wife, please. He does not have springs under his arms. He has no movement in his arms. His arms don't move.

5:08No. He's completely disabled. It's Stephen Hawkins. Stephen Hawkins. The most prostituted man that's ever lived. Stephen Hawkins. That guy can't surrender. No, and he lives a very Calvinist life. Well, well. There's not much pleasure. Let's get a photo of him up on Epstein's Island, which I thought was AI. No, yeah. This is the first time I've been tricked by thinking something that's real is definitely AI. this is this is a this is a hawking let's get the bikinis bikini girls yeah i mean when you first found out that hawkham was there you're like well i'm sure it was something else i'm sure it's not it's not what i'm imagining because what i'm imagining is two bikini guy gals with cocktails and him in the middle uh this is john calvin when he goes to rome

5:53in that was him talking to other catholics yeah people in switzerland are like how hang on how I can't imagine you going there. You don't make sense there. And he's like, I had a fucking great time. I had a holiday for myself. Anyway. So who is John Calvin? Now, he's sort of the unsung hero of the Protestant Reformation. He is the Claude McAleely of the Protestant Reformation. Sure, so he doesn't get his flowers. Does not get his flowers. And if he doesn't want flowers, put them in the bin. He wants just a dry piece of wood or something. Calvin, he sees what Luther's doing. and if Luther's a monk, Calvin is a lawyer, okay?

6:31In that he's trying to implement a society based on Luther's teachings. Right, okay. Which Luther isn't doing. Luther's all about faith in the book. Yes. But Calvin's like, yeah, but how can we actually make this civilization? He's a pragmatist. How can we implement it? He's getting off the toilet. Off the toilet, let's get on with it. We've done poo, flush, wipe, next, done. So Calvin is born in 1509. He's a lawyer and he's in sort of northern France. And he converts to Protestantism. And bear in mind, Switzerland, which is where he'll make his name, that's in the Holy Roman Empire. And that's a bunch of city states.

7:08So it's just as loose as Germany. France is a big power. And again, this is a very confusing time. There is a great battle for the soul of France. There's a significant chance in the 16th century that France will ultimately be Protestant. I know, the French Huguenots. Which is just, I mean, the past. Imagine the sliding doors moment. It doesn't bear thinking about it. Where would England go to forget itself if France is not there? Yeah, yeah. Now, if Luther is a kind of beer drinking, sort of table thumping, pooey German. Right. Calvin is frail, intensely private, chronically ill, migraines, gout, asthma.

7:47I mean, he is sort of Hawking-esque, I suppose. he only ever eats one meal a day and he basically doesn't sleep right so a sneeze could kill him yes yeah yeah he's very frail uh but he converts to prostitutism uh which is not really the done thing in france right there is a thing called the affair of the placards right so this is in the 1530s as exciting as it sounds it is riveting stuff uh yeah no listen the clash of the lanyards Yeah, it's not. Although there is a big lanyard clash culturally. Where? In that there are people who wear them who are either autistic, disabled or gay. And then there's people who don't.

8:28Today, there is a clash with the lanyards. I did see, there's this Telegraph podcast that's making me laugh a lot. Oh, with Camilla. Yeah, it's making me laugh. Because I don't know, I've really been enjoying Telegraph headlines and it's just... You keep sending them to me. They're really funny. Yeah, they are funny. Some of them. I'll get some of them up. But yeah, they're talking about that it's... Yeah, there's like a new class clash between the lanyards and the non-lanyarded. Did they actually say that? Yeah. I was joking. Christ. Yeah, no, it's great. They're saying this with a very intellectual, intelligent way, everything that we joke about.

8:58Yeah. And basically the hatred for Keir Starmer is because he represents the lanyard class. I see. And that's kind of the new division. And it's the lanyard class. They're the ones who slow down, the bureaucratic, the kind of, oh, you can't wear that, you know. And there are a lot of jobs worths. We'll get on that. There's a lot of times in this country that I do feel like you jobs worth swine. Yes. We need to get rid of this, whatever this attitude is yes no actually I can't because I'm my manager no you wouldn't yes what is that with your cinema 100 % 100 % I was watching half of the latest fucking 28 years later really enjoying it in the best cinema this new amazing cinema in Leicester Square if I can finish halfway through it just the picture went so sorry we're gone I realised that it was across the road they were showing it and it started 45 minutes later we were 45 minutes at the film I tried to go in to see it um and they're saying sorry with the the tails closed it's like lad just let us in like yeah we told you this whole story and he says i'm like is it full he's like no there's loads of room i was like we'll just like let us in just let us in no because um my manager might see on cctv it's like i wanted to call him a swine you're a swine and a cow did he have a lanyard on of course he did he had rectangle glasses right you know that that's like yeah there's no way this person can ever think for himself.

10:15There's no free thinker. Yes. How's the rectangle? You mean like Sven Gore and Ericsson? Sort of. Images. Scroll down. Yeah, those ones there. See that one? No, no, that one. Yeah. There's no way that this person has had any individual thought. My father-in-law wears those glasses. And he has a lot of ideas. Okay, fine. Yeah. They're mainly about bands down in the Surrey area. Oh, yeah, of course. He's a counselor. He is a councillor. And in the recent local elections, the Lib Dems had a surge and he sent a GIF on the family WhatsApp of an AI Lib Dem bird going, ah, with a yellow cloak. Is he a Lib Dem councillor?

10:55Yes, he is. Oh, right. So he feels... No, it's not threatening. He's not threatened by the Lib Dem bird. Oh, right. So he's sort of like a werewolf in the moon. It's like a resurgence of the Lib Dem. Ah! With a big yellow cloak. Yeah. We got that. You know, because you know, there's boomers on Facebook. The Cucks Revenge. there's boomers on facebook but then there's boomers this boomers discovering ai and it's a whole new sewer of them like going isn't this amazing and it's the most boring thing you've ever seen you go yeah this episode of fin versus history is sponsored by surf shark oh yes yes vpn we love it vag pussy nunga nungas it's all there yeah this is the opposite of that yeah this is not a vag pussy nunga nungas this is a virtual private network okay with which you can explore images of Vag Pussy Nunga Nungas.

11:42Admittedly, if you talk about a virtual private network too much, you'll never really be able to see a Vag Pussy or Nunga Nungas. So weirdly, they're kind of... Pick a team, fellas. Pick a team. You'll scare away all the Vag Pussy and Nunga Nungas if you keep talking about a virtual private network. But a virtual private network is... It's still important. It's so important. If you want to explore the internet freely, privately, this is like having armour, which I know you already own. You already have samurai armour and chain mail for when you reenact battles with your friends. If you want to get past Keir Starmer's communist porn ban, pretend you're French with your Surfshark VPN.

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13:09Don't let Keir Starmer's online threats catch you off guard. Keep your data safe and see you next time. This episode is brought to you by ChatGPT. Hey, it's Bill Simmons from the Bill Simmons Podcast. Have you guys heard about ChatGPT work? It's the new way to use ChatGPT for bigger multi-step projects. And when you need more than just answers, give ChatGPT work access to your apps and files and it can create real work documents like spreadsheets, slides, and structured reports. Get started at chatgpt.com by selecting work mode available on Plus and Pro plans. Ryan Reynolds here for Mint Mobile with your summer price forecast.

13:49Now, unfortunately, we're seeing rising costs across the country with possibility that big wireless hates you 100%. Now, over here at Mint Mobile, we're seeing sunny skies and dropping prices every plan to just$15 a month. Give it a try at midmobile.com slash switch. Uprunt payment of$45 for three months,$90 for six months, or$180 for a 12-month plan required. $15 per month equivalent. Taxes and fees extra. New customer offer for initial plan term only. Greater than 50 gigabytes may slow when network is busy. See terms. Anyway, Calvin's a French lawyer who converts to Protestantism. We get to the clash of the lanyards, the affair of the placards.

14:23It's 1534, okay? There are Protestant reformists. They're posting placards around France, criticizing the Catholic mass. there is no way to imbue this with any drama okay this is 16th century liturgical disputes it could not be less relevant to anyone today yeah okay but we have to get there to talk about our intellectual forebends so the posters are titled true articles on the horrible great and unbearable abuses of the papal mass right so these are kind of people who are talking about Chinese organ harvesting outside the British Museum do you know I mean yeah there you know there's people with like photos of like yeah I do know that I mean there's all around Trafalgar Square there's like the people trying to get the Iranian royalists in there's like people saying like convert the end is nigh there's a whole mixture of them I don't want to be uh insensitive sure but where does organ harvesting end and chinese cuisine begin it's a famine cuisine they are they're eating anything yeah right so at what point is it just harvesting yeah don't you know they're chinese yeah what you should say it's called harvesting it's their harvest it's how they make food all right that's like you're saying it's culturally insensitive i think it is to complain about chinese organ i'm a big cultural relativist you are okay Every culture is of equal value.

15:49Saying you can't harvest organs in China is like saying you cannot do a wassail in a Surrey orchard. Sure. Another thing my father-in-law has massively violent opinions on. What? He's a big pro wassail guy. What is a wassail? Blackface and all. Wassail is a pagan apple harvest festival where they black up, but in a good way. Oh, right. Positive. Positive blackface. Robert Downey Jr. stuff. Right, okay. It's so funny that it's fine. so the affair of the placards basically a bunch of french protestants which i realize is a is a contradiction in terms yeah they uh put placards everywhere all over france and the previously tolerant king i don't know which king uh he goes so much for the tolerant king this is too much placards are you taking the piss um and so he clamps down on uh the reformers uh which means John Calvin flees France to Geneva.

16:44Now, we get to Calvin in Geneva, 1537. This is where he basically starts preaching his sort of sense of like more extreme Lutheranism. Is this the Beatles in Hamburg? Yeah, yeah, but the opposite of that. It's Dylan going electric, except it's Calvin going analogue. Calvin goes acoustic. right uh unplugs everything and goes it's all too loud okay so he goes to geneva and he starts preaching uh and calvin's big thing okay is that uh whereas luther said that everyone is a sinner we're all in the gutter but through your own internal consciousness and belief and faith you can reach salvation calvin says nah listen god is all powerful he's already decided who is going to heaven who's not and what you can do is you can try and find signs in someone's morals or behavior if they are chosen or not so this is the birth of fat shaming okay it's fatness as more as a moral sin calvin is going you're not chosen for salvation because you're fatty that's that's where this starts so would you say britain's fat families can we get some of that up please would you say this is playing on a calvinist tradition i'm saying it is impossible in a world without calvin okay that's what i'm saying okay so it's it's it's putting all the responsibility on the person but it's not their fault in a way because being predestined to be there to be fat immoral but you slob you well in some ways yes but you can still uh work and you should work to try and prove that you that god has chosen you but if if he hasn't chosen you there's nothing you can do about it well that's not a calvinist attitude no that's a catholic attitude or maybe a lutheran one but he still thinks it's all predetermined so whatever will whatever happens was always going to happen so uh calvin is starting to attach uh morality to and like in a religious sense to how people act in the in like in their lives right so whereas Luther's saying it's all an internal process.

19:05The conscience. The inner conscience. Calvin's saying... Actions. Actions speak louder than words. Okay. Okay? Fridges speak louder than empty cupboards. It's almost like thinking is too spiritual for Calvin. Exactly. Even that's too much. Prove yourself. I don't know what you're thinking. Yeah. How can I? I'm not a mind reader. That's magic. I can see you're very fat. What did he say? It's not who you are, but what you do that defines you. Yeah. So he's a Calvinist. It's who you eat. Yeah. It's what you eat. So Calvin believes in, he doesn't believe in transubstantiation. So the water into wine, that's all bollocks.

19:40That's all bollocks. The God and the Bible is obviously, he agrees with Luther that that's the main source. The church is bollocks. But he thinks that you should build a society where people are trying to, in a sense, prove that they're worthy of salvation. Right. Okay. So that's where he's getting up at 4 a.m. He's Mark Wahlberg. Yes. he's he's the grind set yeah okay no catholic is getting up at 4 a.m it is the the protestant hours there's no it is and the clock probably they're eating dinner at 10 you get two hours apiece you get more than that there is a time difference between you go around the clock the protestant hours are the night hours and then at what 10 a.m you'd say the catholic hours begin right about 10 p.m right okay which is where they have dinner yeah but the protestants are in bed they're tucked up they're at dinner at 6pm exactly because as Brian Johnson said one of the most Presbyterian men there are possible yeah definitely does not want to die well the guy who measures his cum the guy who measures his cum is about as Presbyterian as it gets right because he doesn't want to die because he thinks there's nothing there right right so the Catholics they're not there they're even done dinner too late and what Brian Johnson says you should leave about four and a half hours between your final meal and going to sleep so this is the birth of the least spiritual people on the planet.

21:01There's just nowhere else in the world that this has really come at all. And I guess there's like Buddhism, which is like minimal and stuff, but this sense of earthiness and groundedness is completely unique here. Just breaking news, Brian Johnson's got some nighttime erection data from my 19-year-old son. His duration is two minutes longer than mine. Raise children, just stand tall, be firm and be upright. I've come around to Brian Johnson. At first he pissed me off, but I think he's now gone so far that he's quite, he's pretty good value. I think. If you're measuring your son's erections and then being kind of pissed off that they're two minutes firmer than yours.

21:38Listen, we all have, it's hard to make a relationship with father-son. You know, father-son bonding is difficult. If you're not football fans. If you're not football, exactly. So, you know, measuring each other's boners is just one. And not just like how big they are, the stamina. Yeah. How are they, let's just break that. How are they, are they jacking off? like what are they doing to measure their it's nighttime erection data to i imagine if i know brian johnson he will have a custom made ring that goes around a wearable penis tracker penile tracker sorry it's a penile tracker penile tracker yeah a fitbit for your penis yeah it's like a whoop uh it's like a whoop band right for your dick yeah firm tech tech ring so you've got father son whoop dick bands and you're you're measuring each other's nighttime erections that's bonding it's like a dual shot what's that dual shot thing again quick shot quick shot and then you weigh your tech ring afterwards to go to bed right yes 275 pounds so I guess yes it's sort of the final frontier of biohacking is where you and your son pop on some tech cock rings wearable penile measuring rings and then you wake up in the morning and over breakfast you compare erection data men love stats they do they do they do you know I pray for the women in that household.

22:57I really do. Can we talk about something else? Please. Guys, guys. And Brian's there like, oh, why don't you measure your own vaginal wetness? Why don't you fucking shove a data collecting tampon up there? Yeah. Who's got the dryest vagina out of both of you?

23:17So Calvin believes in simplicity and worship. So he's actually the boring one. Is he the guy who comes up with this? Yeah. He's the boring one, right? Luther's actually a bit of a laugh. sure right yeah because he even by the end we didn't talk about it he's a fat he's a sausage he gets really fat by the end beer drinking constipated like so calvin seeing this being like i don't think you're the guy mate you're on the toilet you're a fat fuck stuck in the toilet you're not you're not jesus he's elvis bresley he's elvis he's german elvis on the toilet in the 16th century eating burgers right whereas and calvin's going i don't know man i think so in Geneva, what he does is he basically creates the boring Protestant utopia.

23:58Which is why Geneva today is like it is. Obsessed with time, clocks and accuracy. And Swiss people are some of the most boring people you ever meet. Yeah. I mean, it's the boring lands. It's so dull. I did a tour of Switzerland like 12 years ago with Dane Baptiste. Everything works. Everything's clean. Everything's nice. nothing fun but it has no character at all no vibe at all it's just clocks yeah right I did we were driven around the most interesting about it was we were driven around by a guy who smoked so much weed that he had he also had those he was slightly cross-eyed had those eyes that made you look the glasses make your eyes look massive but he'd look at us in the rear view mirror and he'd be talking about like conspiracy theories how like the government were out to get him so he had to move to Switzerland and stuff but like his eyes were like flooding the fucking rear view mirror he's out he was the most interesting about Switzerland it's so dull but that's because Calvin Calvin makes it this just ideal ordered unchaotic society so he gets he gets banished from Geneva right quite early on then in 1541 he's asked to return because of this growing religious unrest in the city and then the council of Geneva passes the ecclesiastical ordinances based on Calvin's proposal for reform come with me now Yeah, ladies, have you packed some spare pants, okay?

25:26Sorry, I did not warn you that we were talking about the ecclesiastical ordinances of 1541 Geneva. All right? They call for a restructuring of the Geneva Church with ministers being split into pastors, doctors, elders, and deacons. Right. Which basically means, again, it's less power in the church itself. his teachings becomes calvinism right which is uh denies that the body and blood uh that's all bollocks uh this then starts unlikely he's doubting those numbers yeah yeah he's a big yeah he's a he's questioning everything yeah i mean he's a he's a eucharist denier he is as am i i must say i'm a proud eucharist denier um there's no way that's his body no way there's no way there's so many parts that he's so much wine that's all his blood now he's bothering about in Switzerland now when he dies he becomes he gets buried in an unmarked grave of course he's my bin Laden because he doesn't want to become a martyr right and he doesn't want to become a site of religious pilgrimage but he says that because he doesn't want anyone it's not about him it's about God because that's the thing is that there's not these huge figures in protestantism in the same way there's not cult of personalities no it's not like people it's the cult of no personality yeah no one's got loads of pictures of calvin saying i fucking love calvin yeah like there's none of that stuff at all i do i have a picture of calvin in my toilet right because he's my picture of luther on the toilet in my toilet.

27:03So Calvin is the guy from whom, you know, you'd say anglicized Protestantism comes from. Right. We're not Lutheran, really. We're Calvinist, because a lot of Calvinist reformers go to Britain, especially into Scotland. And this is where we get to the second hero of the story, John Knox. So John Knox is a Roman Catholic minister in, I want to say, the early 1540s. Scott. We should place this, actually. Should we place 1540s? 1540s in Scotland. Christ. So this is after William Wallace. Yes. And it's before, I want to say it's before whiskey. I think we're still in pre-whiskey Scotland in the 16th century.

27:5113th to the 15th century. Damn. Is it? Okay. Before Iron Brew. It's definitely before. It's after whiskey. It's before Iron Brew. Yeah. 1901 pretty old yeah and when's tisky invented 1629 shit so it's it's after whiskey before tisky charlie got another rhyming one that's pretty good that's pretty good tisky 1629 i love tisky i fucking love tisky that's good you know i like about i've realized what i like i like a beer where it sounds like it could be a concentration camp you haven't heard of I mean Tisky Tisky yeah he liberated Tisky it really fucked him up exactly he was one of the gods half a Birkenau please you know it it you know the craft beer Auschwitz IPA please yeah exactly Zuba Zuba Zuba could be a terrible place Zuba yeah he escaped from Zuba he was locked up for 10 years in Zuba you know IPAs aren't doing that yeah Brewdog you know Dachau Pale Ale Now you're talking.

28:54Now you're talking. Pint of Saxenhausen, please. Anyway, so John Knox is a, he starts, and this just sums up, this just sums up Scottish culture. He starts as a fucking bodyguard. He's a bodyguard to a Protestant preacher called George Wishart, and he holds a massive broadsword, right? And then Wishart gets arrested in 1545, and then he gets assassinated, I think. He gets executed and he's devastated. So Knox sort of goes on a bit of a rampage and then he gets captured by the French forces at St. Andrews. He then gets made a slave. White slave? He's a white slave. And he's Scottish. I mean, I'm trying to find slavery in my heritage.

29:44Right. Anyway, so John Knox is forced to row in French galleys for 19 months, but because he's fucking Calvinist, he loves it. He loves that shit. He loves it. It's brilliant. You can't touch me. Yeah. What do you mean? What my punishment is to do more work. Brilliant. Brilliant. He then, when he's released, he flees to Geneva and he becomes Calvin's student, right? So it's while in exile in Geneva in 1558 that he writes, the first blast of the trumpet against the monstrous regiment of women. This book, he says, women can't be rulers. Right. Because at the time, Scotland is ruled by Mary, Mary Queen of Scots, and Elizabeth I is on the throne, I think, 1558?

30:32Yeah. Yeah, so for him, it's upside down world. The world's gone insane. Yes, it is. The world's gone mad. This is fucked. LBC, everyone is calling in. What times are we living in? This is mental. LBC is impossible in a world without Knox. Yeah, okay. So he writes a book saying women should not rule this is madness okay uh and then elizabeth the first oh she takes his throne just shortly after that and then he goes well i'm not no you're the exception because you're you're a bloke really yeah you look like a bloke um so uh he then comes back to uh scotland uh in 1559 having you know drunk from the teat of calvin in switzerland and when he arrives in Scotland's much like the rat landing in Venice to start the Black Death, but instead it's...

31:18Don't call us that. Sorry. Don't call us that. You're saying Presbyterianism is the Black Death. I'm saying if you view boringness as a sort of disease, then in that sense... Or as a medicine. To your Catholic disease of opulence and light and paintings. Right, right, right. So, yeah, this is... What is it? It's not laxatives. It's... Imodium. It's Imodium. yeah Knox is a modium

31:47let's just cork that ass up alright John Knox is literally yeah a modium arriving on a ship so Knox comes back to Scotland to cork up Scotland yeah and he's he's fired up by Calvinism but he thinks because this is why Scottish people are the way they are remember the Scottish history is blue faced fucking Celtic yeah Britons as I said I don't relate to any of the William Wallace stuff they've basically been the Taliban firing fucking naked the Taliban I don't yeah I don't relate to it all. This is where I start to feel Scottish. Right. Yeah. Okay. And it's all from a French guy. Crazy. Crazy. A French guy via Switzerland.

32:24Anyway. So Knox comes back to Scotland and begins the Scottish Reformation. He starts these massive tub-thumping ceremonies, preaching in St. Giles' Church, Edinburgh. Get a photo of that up, Charlie. St. Giles' Church, Edinburgh, which is where my parents got married. Wow. Wow. that's how much this is in my bones my parents got married at Knox's church and he's there going like these church this church needs to be way more boring right fuck it all off he he's saying I want a plain room he's literally I just want white walls I want to sit in the garage well yeah I guess it's this kind of brand of Protestantism is it's it's a divorced dad right he's they divorce from Catholicism yeah and you go to visit You're not from a divorced family, but that moment you first visit your dad after the divorce, white walls.

33:18They haven't had... They've had a woman in their life for like over a decade. Yes, yes. So they don't know what to do. They're fucking eating eggs and that's it. Yeah. So this is what the churches have become. It's very much symbolic of the divorced dad's new apartment. Charlie, can you find the photo? There's a photo of men who live on their own interior design. It's pretty funny. Yeah. This is what all churches look like. Yeah, this is a Lutheran church. This is a Presbyterian church. It's basically just a computer, a computer chair, and then like a rack of weights. That's it, look. That's it.

33:50Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is John Knox's church, right? This is where my parents got married. It's a windowless room with strip lighting, a computer chair, a desk, a bin, and that's it. That's it. That's all you need. There's a God in that room. That's all you need, yeah. All you need. Go on top here. Yeah. Starting or growing your own business can be intimidating and lonely at times. Your to-do list may feel endless with new tasks, and lists can easily begin to overrun your life. So finding the right tool that not only helps you out, but simplifies everything as a built-in business partner can be a game changer.

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36:13Have you guys heard about ChatGPT work? It's the new way to use ChatGPT for bigger multi-step projects. And when you need more than just answers, give ChatGPT work access to your apps and files, and it can create real work documents like spreadsheets, slides, and structured reports. Get started at ChatGPT.com by selecting work mode available on Plus and Pro plans. So he starts preaching, and he also, Mary Queen of Scots, he starts having meetings with her. He starts, basically, he starts all these riots. The Scottish Reformation begins in, what, 1560-odd. There's sort of a civil war, and Scotland becomes officially Protestant in August 1560, abolishes the mass, and then also Elizabeth I is trying, she wants Scotland to be Protestant because then that would secure her northern border.

37:16Yeah. Mary Queen of Scots basically fucks it because I think she tries to kill Elizabeth and then Elizabeth has to kill her or something like that. But this is before that because Knox visits Mary Queen of Scots who at this point is a fucking Spanish teenager. French. French teenager. Yeah. She's an annoying French teenager with blue hair or something. Yeah. And she's calling on hard man John Knox just to like come and explain yourself. Yeah. He goes and meets her and says, you're fucking voodoo nonsense. Right. don't fucking teach me i'm school of hard knocks literally yeah i think the last time they meet he makes her cry yeah i mean this is the long road to to your dad making waiters cry right yeah you know let's debate me debate me debate me what do you actually think what do you think the marketplace of ideas okay you're free to debate me dad we're never going to go to this restaurant again but otherwise they'll never learn we had we had a terrific discussion it was a brilliant dinner now they've learned something they won't do this again yeah he's actually very selfless for the next person who has to be served by them.

38:17They've quit their job. So yeah, so she returns to now Protestant Scotland having been in exile. Knox is like, right, well, you're a threat to the newly Protestant Scotland. So he's trying to demand her to abandon the Catholic mass and then he makes her cry after criticizing her relentlessly to her face. And she's a teenager. She's a teenage girl. Beast. And he's just fucking, he destroys her. It's the first feminist gets destroyed. By truth and logic, John Knox making Mary Queen of Scots cry. Right? I love it. It's like those uni hall debate things where they're debating like literal 19-year-olds.

38:53Yeah. It'll be like a professional debate. It's like the Charlie Kirk thing. It's like, yeah, you're debating the weakest members of that team. Yeah, of course. You're doing 18-year-olds who are barely neuro-normative enough to fucking look you in the eye. Yeah, blue hair, fat with a teddy they're holding, an anxiety. They take the headphones off. um yes charlie so i was just wondering have you read the bible have you read the bible yeah so um uh knocks basically um knocks mary queen of scott's six and he founds his legacy to the world is presbyterianism which basically is a radical democratic protestantism okay which is anti-monarchist interesting so uh it comes up in the English Civil War, right?

39:41Yes. So whereas Anglicanism, which... The Pope is the king, basically, in Anglicism. Yeah, Knox would say that in the English Reformation, which we will deal with more when we do Henry VIII, that they just replaced the Pope with the king. He's like, let's get rid of... Like, no human should be in hell of the church. It's going to be a council of elders, which is where the word Presbyterianism comes from, from the Greek, right? so he actually is sort of the birth of American Puritanism yes very much it's all yeah because that's libertarianism yeah devolved yeah anti-monarchist fuck you mum yeah he's the first emo yeah he's the fuck you mum it's John Knox where are you yeah he's listening to My Chemical Romance in his room cutting himself right whereas Anglicanism is is much more gay because there is still beauty in Anglicanism.

40:40So this is the church that Henry VIII accidentally founds because he has a boner for a... Yeah, and this is the sort of church that I was raised in a bit more. It's basically Elizabeth I centrist dads, the sectarian violence that's going on. It was fucking super Protestant with Edward VI. It was super Catholic with Mary. There was too many factions, so she just goes right down the middle and said, let's just cherry pick a bit of this. There's a third way. It's Blair. Yeah. Elizabeth I, the first player. Yeah. Yeah. So, and that means that we can still have some fucking, it's still a fucking church.

41:13We can have some beauty. It doesn't have to be the most miserable. It doesn't have to look like a betting shop. It doesn't have to look like Ladbrokes. Yeah. But we can do without the Pope, without some of the bollocks. I'll tell you what it is. It's a guy whose girlfriend's left him, but he's kept the house. Yeah. Right? Right. He's not moved to a new house and had to decorate it or not. Right, so you can still keep some of the furnishing. You keep the artwork, the plant. he can keep the plant alive okay the stuff on the walls the lighting is nice right right okay but she's not there yeah okay in in presbyterianism i'm leaving you and i'm gonna go and live in a fucking box room or is anglicanism it's still a divorce but your dad's divorcing your um mom because he's secretly gay he's a gay man yeah so my dad is angry yeah so yes because when you go over to your dad's house it's like hi why does this look nicer than our house yeah why have you been why has your interior design flair been set free now you've left and you go that's the pope no it's not it's your stepdad and you go but but but no but but when do you have this how are you suppressing all of this i didn't know you're like hi yeah exactly i actually the spirit of anglicanism which what i find so funny is it seems to be maybe one of the most gentle churches yeah it's like the english vicar is a fucking referee yeah they're like everything's completely soft jam jam it's just jam it's it can't really survive as a church because it doesn't have enough uh drama drama it's not forcing anyone to be in there it's not really oppressing anyone in any way it's more like well you know if you if you you can be gay yeah of course yeah if you want I mean, if you want to be in Anglican, please.

42:54Cup of tea? Cup of tea. It's that one. It's that one. Honestly, if you ever stop believing in it, just go. It's fine. It's fine. Yeah. So it's just very like. But it's also, Anglicanism is the, it's the religion of empire. The British Empire is Anglican. Yes. And so it has that elite. What is it? Paternal. Paternalism. Yeah. It's paternalistic. And also there is, you know, the aesthetic of empire. Rajkor, for example. It's still interested in architectural beauty. Yeah. In sartorial elegance. Yes. sure you know john knox would rather just be sort of fucking naked on a beach we'll be wearing it's very similar mouse suits yeah it's the same thing yeah yeah it's the same thing um so there is still a now we've got the the differences between presbyterianism and lutheran uh churches so in presbyterianism if the bible doesn't command it you don't do it whereas lutheran anglican if the bible doesn't forbid it you can do it right just slightly gentler so in terms of decor Presbyterianism white walls no statues Lutheran Anglican stained glass crucifixes candles so yeah so American Protestantism is closer to Presbyterian certainly evangelical is right where it's all about the yeah music in Lutheran and Anglican you get choirs organs hymns Presbyterianism originally a cappella only barbershop that's it not even allowed fucking pianos no pianos pianos are gay fuck off right go to the fucking West End and do Jersey Boys this is a fucking church and why don't you suck off the audience while you're at it if you're playing a piano okay Anglican hymns the most goated hymns of any church I'd say and did those feet well there's a lot there's Anglican yeah but in general I think it blows Catholics out the water they'd love that what we've blown out the water yeah I think the Christian relationship to music is probably the strongest of any religion uh oh yeah but you know it's a pretty strong relationship after that they've only got one song though don't they they do they do but it slaps it slaps you know and again what would the Christian call to prayer be well which come in there's tea yeah it's not the same is it I've made sandwiches excuse me yeah they would be actually a woman on a minimum going excuse me are you allowed to park there do you have a permit for that that's the call to prayer That's the English, that's the Anglican call to prayer.

45:20Yeah. Yeah. The busybody, the curtain twitcher. Yeah. Not quite as mystical as Aloh Akbar. Do you want to hear some Scientology hymn? Go on then. It's just too modern, isn't it? There's no sense of history here. It sounds like the fucking monkeys or something.

45:40It's not bad. It's pretty good, actually. Is that Scientology? Gospel sounds... It's like psych rock. Yeah. That's unbelievable. Yeah. I doubt that. Doubt that's true. We'll circle back to that. But yes, Presbyterianism, get rid of the piano. Fuck off. Yeah. All right. Strip it all back. So he successfully creates the Scottish Presbyterian system. In March 1564, at approximately 50 years old, he marries Margaret Stewart. Oh, damn. Relative of Mary, Queen of Scots, she's 17. Oh.

46:18um and it's crazy this is like a long-running thing now

46:35so he's guilty of being a fucking legend yeah listen you know it's it's listen to what it's Sex tourism. Presbyterianism is sex tourism. Right. Right? Yeah. It's fine. We're all in the gutter. So has he managed to pull himself up by his bootstraps pretty well? Because he was a bodyguard. And now he's married into the... It's one of the biggest zero to heroes ever. Yeah. He basically is intellectually... He was a slave. And then his fucking amazing grace. He was... He was blind, but now I see. He was a slave on a slave ship. He was enslaved by the French. Darren Unchanged. Hey? Darren Unchained.

47:12Darren Unchained.

47:16Yeah. And then he marries into the fucking royal family. Yeah. You know, a relative of, and he makes the queen cry. I mean, he's savage. He's brilliant. If only he was born after YouTube, so you could watch highlights of him destroying people. Oh yeah, I'd love to see clips. You know, 25 minutes, knock slaps. You know, there's like hitch flaps. Yeah. Knock slaps. It'd be knocks outs. Yeah, knocks out. Knocks out, punch. yeah it'd be brilliant and then his 17 year old wife nurses him through his final illness John Knox dies 1572, age 58 he's buried in St Giles again where my parents got married and he leads, now the great irony is that having destroyed Mary Queen of Scots with fact and logic Mary Queen of Scots is it her son?

48:08is James VI? who becomes James I? Is that right? Or is it a grandson? How's he done that? Sorry? Long story. Long story, Charlie. We'll get to it. So the irony, of course, is that he basically, having defeated her, because Elizabeth imprisoned her, when she dies, eventually her son takes the throne, but he's raised by Protestant tutors, isn't he? James I. Yeah, he's Protestant. He is. But then he makes the King James Bible, which is the kind of Protestant, the Anglican. It's the English-speaking Bible. It's the Anglican Bible, isn't it? Yeah. That's the kind of text. Is that like the best-selling Bible in the world, right?

48:48Yeah, I guess it is. I guess it is the best-selling. What's the worst-selling Bible in the world? Don't know. What's the least Christian country? The Wicked Bible. It's due to a catastrophic typo in the 1631, which said, thou shalt commit adultery. That's amazing. That's incredible. That's incredible. there's a bible made under Charles I that said well so people were reading that going oh right fuck brilliant oh right brilliant and also the fact that a catastrophic typo back then is not as easy to correct things that is catastrophic that is a fucking catastrophe oh no oh fuck unless they went thou shalt commit adultery turn the page nah yeah there it is fuck there it is thou shalt commit adultery that's pretty funny wow i wonder if they missed out all the knots so it's like thou shalt cover thy neighbor's ox he doesn't understand what shalt means yeah so um presbyterianism this becomes ultimately the central uh divide between uh england scotland culturally in that now scotland starts to really punch above its weight intellectually yes because isn't there something about there's a stat where it's like the more um likely you were to have a printing press the more likely you were to be protestant and then more likely you were or if there's one in your town you're more likely you were to be protestant the um more literate the society yeah so scotland becomes a intensely literate society because presbyterianism even more than luther is about reading yes you got to read and they're like inventor per square mile is the best anywhere scottish like scots invented everything right yes and there's barely any of them and also within the british empire the people who toilets Toilets.

50:35Yeah, toilets. Yeah. TVs. TVs. The electric grid. The phone. Yeah. I mean, our modern life is watching TV on a phone on the toilet. And that's Scotland. That's Scotland. Scotland gave us that. They're the first hard crescent for pooing. Yeah. So, Presbyterianism, then, that's all about the... Whereas Luther says you should read the Bible just so you can decide whether you agree with it or not, and it's your own faith. Presbyterianism is like you need to read the Bible because you're in charge of the church it's up to you because there's no kings because fuck them it's up to you you're running it I see so you've got to read it you've got to be able to read which is why everyone in Scotland and again you're all council members yes you're all councillors we're all Jackie Weaver yeah whereas Anglicanism is a fudge a fudge it is fudge right it's a fudge between Catholic and Protestant yes sorry and they serve fudge fingers they serve fudge fingers yeah right right um so eddie isard's joke right cake or death yes that's what the anglicans are like yes it is yeah yeah um but in terms of america calvinism calvin's the root from the tree from which uh you know you'd say calvin's the tree of life for people who don't nap in that you've got one branch which leads to scotland one branch that leads to puritanism which leads to america because obviously the puritans maybe uh 80 years later are disgusted with the direction of the country right much like people moving to dubai now yeah because ironically london's getting too muslim where are you going the gulf brilliant you've nailed that lads well done um they are going to america to make it more puritan yes uh that's all calvinist so the calvinist work ethic you know is american puritanism definitely uh the presbyterian um iconoclasm of destroying idols and kings that's america how ugly a lot of american cities and buildings that's knox yeah you know um and yet they're all fat interesting which calvin would have hated yeah and knox would have hated as well yes it's true um so that's kind of the i suppose that's i guess that's the story of calvin in a way in that he he's actually who we're all uh because there's not much to talk about him as a person because he doesn't want any of that stuff he's stephen walking in the chair i mean who cares who cares really right and he's french which again i just is just mind-blowing to me and yet he is responsible for the Anglosphere, I'd say.

53:16The idea of the West is impossible without Calvin, I don't think. The idea of capitalism is a Calvinist... I don't think the idea of the West is the idea of the Anglosphere. Yeah. Because I guess the West is Spain, France, Italy. The West is not Spain. What are you talking about? What do you think? There's Africa. When I say the West has fallen, I don't mean Spain has fallen. It's never woken up. No one's saying Spain has fallen. Yeah. what do you think about the uh religious character of like australia then how do you think that does that that differs much from america from when you've gone there um it's a good point actually i suppose it's a mission it's more of a missionary society yeah and i guess i don't know much about what was cooked he must have been anglican yeah it's very protestant vibes there i feel yeah yeah But yeah, it's not the same.

54:07It's not got the same hustle. I think it's impossible to separate American religion from their economic urgency. Yeah. Right. But they don't have that in Australia. Yeah. They see it as like a moral good to make money. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So that is the story of Calvin and of a friend of the pod, John Knox. In our final episode in the Reformation, we will deal with the empire striking back. The Counter-Reformation. The evil priests. Yes. The Darth Vaders. Yeah. How do they respond? Spanish Inquisition, all that stuff. They clap back. They clap back hard. That's the final episode in this series. That's already on the Patreon.

54:52We will hear about some terrible stories of Protestants being massacred, which I am firmly against. Anyway, we'll also be doing a deep dive on the history of the Amish. Yeah, that's on the Patreon. That's great stuff. That's great fun. and our live special on the JFK assassination recorded at Hackney Empire last year. That's going out as well. It's a great show. That's it from us for this episode. We'll see you next time for the final episode in our Reformation series. Goodbye. Bye-bye.

55:36This episode is brought to you by ChatGPT. Hey, it's Bill Simmons from the Bill Simmons Podcast. Have you guys heard about ChatGPT work? It's the new way to use ChatGPT for bigger multi-step projects. And when you need more than just answers, give ChatGPT work access to your apps and files, and it can create real work documents like spreadsheets, slides, and structured reports. Get started at ChatGPT.com by selecting work mode available on Plus and Pro Plans.

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The Reformation (Part Three)

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