Cult of Zero Personality | Pol Pot (Part 4/4)

0:28Push your limits, train with precision, see the results. I'm Hannah. I've lost 75 pounds in 20 months with GLP-1s, plus diet and exercise. On Rho, I've gone from struggling to run a mile to running farther every day. You can access FDA-approved GLP-1s online. Get the support you need to reach your weight loss goals. Go to roe.co slash weight to see if you qualify. I'm a paid Rho partner. 20 % average weight loss in one year in non-diabetics with obesity or overweight with a weight-related medical condition versus 3.1 % in placebo arm. Rx only. To stay informed about serious side effects, go to row.co.slaughts.com.

1:43Welcome back to Finversus History. Part four. Part four. On our terrifying tour. Grim, the grim mixed grill of the Cambodian genocide. We genuinely shocked Charlie here, to be honest. part one Charlie said can I shake your hand part three is going guys I don't like this guy this is grim and that's because he never knows what we're about to talk about but how sincerely you got scared like you're in a horror ride I've got a bad feeling about it when did you start not liking it was it when they started eating their own poo with the only thing which was a spoon the poo and the nails and like the drowning stuff with the bodies I don't like any of that it's kind of as bad as it gets the bit before that where you just get to wear black clothes and a spoon.

2:27Charlie was like, I fucking love that. Simple. Back to basics. Yeah. Salt of the earth. Salt of the earth these days. You know, they're not capitalist pigs like us. No. So, in our last episode, things got a bit fruity. As I said, this cunt's absolutely crackers. Yeah. He's a verified fruit loop, Pol Pot. But again, you know, we've spent three episodes on him. We don't really know much about him because he's in the shadows. You know? Yeah. He's pulling some strings and his policies are very famous, but he's not. Yeah, because I guess what jumps out to me with the Pol Pot thing, maybe it's a misconception, but Hitler would have toured the fucking death camps and would have got all the plans through about them and was so involved.

3:11Was Pol Pot just saying any enemies of the people kill them and then it sort of became like this? Or was it very much like his edict? Trickle down genocide. Yeah. Is that what you're saying? Yeah. Well, he says - Like how truly, was it like, is he in the jungle not seeing it as much he's in he's in penong he's in a big nice colonial house on the on the porch in a nice chair and he says this is after the genocide largely unrepentant he says please understand with my high level of work i only made decisions concerning the very important people i didn't supervise the lower ranks look at me now do you think i'm a violent person so as far as my conscience and my mission were concerned there was no problem no problem or like I like how Liam Neeson would say it no problem no problem that's how Liam Neeson would say it so he just says no problem yeah do you think there's any problem with the Cambodian genocide and your part in it no problem no problem yeah and if you're if that makes you queasy you must remember I'm doing the accent of a white person Liam Neeson is white so seeing seeing as you got livid at the person who asked forgiveness how do you think that compares to Pol Pot saying no problem no problem I prefer no problem because it's like the other guys just but there was problem there was big problem many problems but like but it's like him not knowing I'd say he's quite problematic yeah Pol Pot I can respect that more than I can this sort of weird football manager apology fuck off fuck off yeah the boys the boys were just outplayed yeah man we just didn't get we gave our all obviously the buck stomps at me yeah I take full responsibility for the way the team's performing you know back to the training ground first thing the fans were great you know sorry they had to see it yeah but um yeah i don't like that no too formal so this episode will be dealing with the uh the collapse of democratic campuchia the utopian society where money was banned where all you had was a spoon and some pajamas and where schools were turned into uh medical experiments now after the genocide Pol Pot decides to be referred to as femme.

5:14I guess is he trans? A new pseudonym. That's not femme as in, like you'd say like you're a femme mask. But how did the genocide end? Well, we'll get to that. Okay. But they keep going. The killing fields, the lovely romantic fields of death. But is the rate of the killing fields happening consistently for the three and a half year period? Yeah. It's just three and a half years of just that sort of... It's Mike Lohan at the top of his game. Right. Right. And then at some point... That's kind of a long time. You think about what's happening. Yeah. That's a long time for that intensity of shit to be happening.

5:48Yeah, it's crazy. Yeah. Mike Lohan won the Ballon d 'Or. Yeah. And then his hamstrings gave out. So, um... And Pol Pot, was he nominated for Ballon d 'Or? I don't think he was. No. Because he was too, you know, he was selfless. He's like a selfless player. He was like, Macaulay is never going to win Ballon d 'Or. Who won the Ballon d 'Or in 79? Let's see who beat Pol Pot. Was there a Ballon d 'Or in 79? There was. Stanley Matthews won the first Ballon d 'Or, I believe. Oh, right. Kevin Keegan. Interesting. So Keegan beats Paul Pot. Fair play. And what's Keegan's numbers? Keegan, a rare English winner of the Ballon d 'Or.

6:21Keegan stats. Yeah. 204 goals and 592 appearances. Not bad. Paul Pot, 2 million, three and a half years. Yep. Do you know what I mean? Blows it out of the water. Yeah. So how does the Khmer Rouge end? So for three years, they're absolutely going hell for leather, babies for trees they're going babies for trees they're going babies for trees it's all pretty grim they're forcing everyone to eat poo with their spoons which is the only thing that they own I don't think there's been a worse place to grow up in no you know my wife and I are like oh do we want to bring the kids up in London I'll tell you where we don't want to bring them up is Cambodia in the 70s yeah I mean the 70s was bad in the UK yes but it really was nowhere puts into perspective it really does it does you know Ted Heath yeah 74.

7:05So at some point it should be said that Pol Pot goes on a kind of Stalinist purge of his own party as well. So he really turns the it's not even turning the gun, it's turning the fucking pipe on himself and he starts knocking everyone around. Now, there have been constant border incursions from Cambodia into Vietnam and there have been this big massacre that we mentioned last time. What, so it was spinning over? Yeah, because they were killing a lot of people who had Vietnamese tendencies, whatever that means uh they hate the vietnamese famously there's been a long-running enmity between the two countries and they they go one border incursion too far they go and kill too many vietnamese village uh villagers and in response in december 1978 vietnam invades cambodia right with support from some defectors who had fled the regime and in a matter of like weeks maybe even days they capture phnom penh because phnom penh it must be said is a ghost town oh that'd be great if you're a photojournalist being able to go around because it's been deserted the entire time it's deserted for four years and they install a new government the People's Republic of Campuchaya led by a man called Heng Samri did the animals return like in Covid probably probably did probably like a monkey yes it was just completely deserted it's like Chernobyl it's just ghost town two million people overnight fuck off empty city for three years so the Vietnamese take it take control of it install a new government Pol Pot and his followers go back to the jungles near the Thai border in the west of the country.

8:30So they collapse really easily under Vietnamese. Well, yeah, because there's no one, I mean, there's just no one in the city, really. And then I think the... Also, the Vietnamese have been fighting the Vietnam War for years. They're a pretty bow-hardened. And in 79... Effective force. At what point does the US pull out? Is that 75? 25, yeah. Right, okay. There's a moment where the Vietnamese are coming and Doik, the guy who owns... Doik? Doik! The guy that you hate the most, the football manager who's in charge of the torture centre, he gets a call saying, the Vietnamese are coming, shut up shop.

9:03Yeah. Bring another defender on, strike her off, let's just see this one out. So he quickly kills the remaining people that are there. And I think apart from like 12 people survived, that's 21. I don't know. Oh, I know why. One of them survives because he's the only one that's able to operate machinery that makes the centre run. And this was the great problem of Cambodia in the 70s in that they killed all doctors, anyone who had glasses yeah but then when they need a medical system they've killed everyone who's qualified so if everyone's a rice farmer then if you eat too much rice and you feel sick there's no one to help so I guess the 12 were just important skilled workers well maybe not maybe some people just hid I don't know or maybe someone just really liked eating poo with their spoon I don't know anyway so they all fuck off into the jungle seven were children seven were children right okay so Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge carry on being a thing but they fuck off into the jungle and start which is what he loves really he loves it he's back to the roots back to this heartland and this is where they start like a guerrilla campaign against the Vietnamese for years I think yeah this is what's the weird part of it it doesn't have a satisfying end because normally like an insane genocide you look at like World War 2 yes satisfying end Nuremberg yeah bunker blood Gaddafi satisfying end the most satisfying end Gaddafi's ever had how extreme this genocide was narratively it's not particularly satisfying that he just goes back to guerrilla warfare as if none of that happened yeah it just feels like he took a step back it's a fade out yeah it's a cross fade into nothing like the genocide only ends but now they're back in the jungle fighting the Vietnamese again like it was like bookends yeah like it was all a dream yeah genuinely yeah did that even happen yeah at that point after four years of the disastrous genocide and the guerrilla fight what are they even fighting for at that point?

10:56I know. Is it to get back in and do it all over again? I guess so. Run that shit back. Well, it's the Vietnamese, isn't it? They hate the Vietnamese. So this is where Pol Pot starts, he gets rid of the black and starts wearing green jungle print safari suits. Right. Right. He also starts to ally with the fucking US. Right. Because the Vietnamese are running their country now. So he's going, well, you hate Vietnam. Help us get rid of these Vietnamese commies. And the US are like, sorry, you're calling them commies. That's a bit of the pot calling the kettle Chinese. Do you know what I mean? Aren't you commies?

11:35And so, but this is the point is that he has no intellectual, like integrity to his ideas. No, it's not an ideologue. No, because he doesn't really, he's using communism to try and control Cambodia. And then as soon as it becomes expedient to ditch communism, he's trying to say let's ally with the US and you know what we should have some schools maybe and maybe the odd hospital's fine and yes you can wear glasses if they're small if they're really thick and big and your eyes look massive you look thick I'm going to kill you but thick would be good thick is good actually so maybe it's just as always push your limits train with precision see the results at Equinox that's high performance loving everything you need to lock in and unlock your potential at Equinox Start today at equinox.com.

12:24I'm Hannah. I've lost 75 pounds in 20 months with GLP-1s, plus diet and exercise. On Rho, I've gone from struggling to run a mile to running farther every day. You can access FDA-approved GLP-1s online. Get the support you need to reach your weight loss goals. Go to row.co slash weight to see if you qualify. I'm a paid Rho partner. 20 % average weight loss in one year in non-diabetics with obesity or overweight with a weight-related medical condition versus 3.1 % in placebo arm. Rx only. To stay informed about serious side effects, go to roe.co.slashsafety. Summer's full of reasons to look your best.

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13:40That's what Philip Short would argue, is that the Cambodian people have this thing in them. but he's like when in Cambodia that's his yeah do as the Cambodians yeah fucking chuck babies at trees that's what that's what he would say and maybe there's an element to that but it's also I mean Pope Park was clearly I don't know it's weird there's no cult of personality it's a personalityless dictator yes so in October October 79 it was declared there'd be no more executions and the UN recognizes the Khmer Rouge's delegation over the Vietnamese so the UN in the UN Cambodia seat it's still the Khmer Rouge for like a long time.

14:16Is it till the 90s? That's crazy. That's like Hitler still having the seat at the UN for Germany until 1960. Yeah, it just doesn't have the neatness you're used to. It's just like weirdly dragged out. It's because it's all because America are pulled out and everyone's like can we just forget that we did that? Forget this whole thing. We shouldn't really be there. I don't know what's going on in there. Yeah. And it's like this sort of back corner of the world where everyone's just kind of ignoring it. And then the journalist journalists behind the film killing the killing fields can you look that up he's a weird guy what pop up journalist was a cambodian photojournalist dith pran and american journalist sydney shan by the 1984 is based on the experience reporting on the kumaya rudge regime so basically when everyone was leaving vietnam so like the last chopper out of saigon yeah they stayed and like that's how it came out to the world is that like an american journalist stayed i want documented the whole thing yeah i think that's what where it came from what did they do with all the bodies well you probably saw a lot of them.

15:11You're the only one who's been to Cambodia. Yeah. Went to the killing fields. And how are you shocked? They're shocked at it. You've been there. Don't know. He went to Angkor Wat. We did a Patreon episode about Angkor Wat and we're trying to ask him any questions and he said, my dog died and it was hot. Well, I was really boiling and my mum called me when I was going there and she told me my dog had died. She couldn't say anything else about the temple. Yeah, it was a fucking sad, it was a sad blur. But my wife went to Cambodia and she said, the striking thing is there's no old people. Oh, they're not.

15:39Well, they killed 20 % of their population in three years. So there will be less old people. Yeah. And it's all from a certain... Working age was the main thing. Oh, the working age men. There's like 70%. So that's one generation pretty much taken out entirely. So if you're Cambodian, you've got a grandpa, he probably did something a bit naughty. He was probably pretty naughty. But in Enemies of the People, when he starts speaking to the people who did it, it does sort of show that they don't strike you as evil. again they seem very genial and friendly and like they're like grandpas they just sort of got caught up in it all and there's still a level of guilt but that's like the Nazis thing the banality of evil oh there we go there you go fucking hell the banality of anal so close the banality of anal is that your autobiography Charlie Milner autobiography the banality anal is banal is it is anal banal not to me it's not to you maybe to me it means something to me it's extraordinary Ordinary.

16:38No. The idea of it. Yeah, but to you. No, it's uncompassionate. The banality of anal. By Charlie Miller. You know what they say about anal? Meh. Banal. In the way that Boss Bemp and Borden Bamsey bad banal. And apparently Banyer West and Borden Bamsey have been bumming. But you bear this. Banyer Best. Stop. Banyer Best. Banyer Best and Borden Bamsey are bumming. After a party. Yeah. Banyer Best bummed. born in the 19 in 1979 the regime aimed to rebuild the military oh yeah right so poll gets replaced by q sam fan as prime minister uh in 81 polpo and noon cheer who's the guy in that film number two brother number one and number two they dissolve the cpk which is the only communist party in history to voluntarily end its own existence so it's quite a lot of firsts it is yeah they're quite unique in this sense they are they do break the trends a little bit still packing up and going Sorry about that.

17:36Can we just forget about that four years? Yeah. Sorry, that was weird. I shouldn't have said that. It's like when a joke bombs and you're like... Sorry. Sorry about that. Thought it would come out. I thought it would be funny. No, I thought it sounded fun in my head. But yeah. Can we just move on? Can we just forget about that? Forget. Sorry about that. Yeah. And so this is obviously because ideologically they haven't really got a leg to stand on. Well, a lot of people don't have legs to stand on. Most people don't have legs to stand on. Yeah. And then they're then sort of solely fighting the Vietnamese.

18:02And it becomes something that you can unite the country a bit more because it's just... And this is the anti-Vietnamese stance means they now support capitalist nations, as I was saying. Yeah, so it's just complete bollocks. We chose communism because we wanted to restore our nation. We helped the Vietnamese who were communists, but now the communists are fighting us, so we have to turn to the West and follow their way. So he's just... It's complete U-turn. Yeah. I mean, talk about U-turn. This is about as big as it gets. Yeah. So I guess, yeah, a lot of people say communism has never been tried properly.

18:28This is the example where you really believe that communism wasn't tried, right? No, it was tried. In a way, not really, because it's so clearly not ideologically led. It's just like... No, I get... Do you know what I mean? Some of the other ones, I think you're skirting away from the responsibility. But it definitely was tried, and it didn't work. But I think this is almost something else. Well, it is. No, it's they thought they were trying. Yeah. Yeah. Sort of. Sort of. If he flips on a dime like that, then was he even trying? You know, you've got to let a man change his mind. I guess so. This clearly doesn't work.

18:58And also, it's like trial and error, isn't it? Yes, you could say it's that. There's no bad ideas in brainstorming? No. What about we march them all and chop all their heads off? That wasn't a good idea. No. Did you come up with any ideas? No. Yeah, I told a sissy to fuck off in two hours. I was, you know, I thought, fuck it. Yeah, what was your idea? Yeah, you got any ideas? Nothing. Yeah, you know. It's always me having to come up with all the fucking ideas. So Pot allows captured soldiers to return to their families. And he says this, each person you kill has a family. So each family will bear a grievance.

19:27That way you increase the number of your enemies and you'll have fewer friends. What's going on there? Yeah. Again, it's this weird sort of, he's just flipped in a sixpence. So his whole thing is enemies of the people, right? Yeah. That's kind of the justification that the communist high command had for the genocide was purifying the country of enemies of the people. But he's saying that the problem is when you kill an enemy, you make all their families into enemies. Yeah. So the coalition government of democratic Campuchia is formed in 82. And this is recognized by the UN as a more legitimate national government.

20:01So this is similar to the Communist Party, it's saying here, similar views. But this is still the Khmer Rouge. Right. But they control certain parts of the country. Vietnam controlled Phnom Penh. But like collective eating and communal possessions are abolished, but private property and family life are restored. The Khmer Rouge continue to tell their own rule. In the area they're controlled. So they're north of the country. Yeah, they receive over a billion dollars in military from China, $215 million from the USA, Singapore, Malaysia and Thailand. What's going on there? Well, that's it. They're getting it from everyone.

20:33Yeah, no one fucking knows how bad it is. And because Vietnam has technically violated their sovereignty and they're communists, and the Khmer Rouge have gone, we're not communists anymore. Yeah. And also, I don't know how much they knew about it. And also, they're probably feeling guilty for fucking carpet bombing them over breakfast. Sorry about that. So we should talk about his personal life because he gets diagnosed with Hodgkin's lymphoma in the 1980s. Desperately sad. Another victim. One more victim. to the list. His wife, his schizophrenic wife had been quite mouthy. Hot and cold. Funny that.

21:09Blown a bit hot and cold. Charlie, can you chat to see what happens to his schizophrenic wife? So yeah, Paul divorces her in 79 after the Vietnamese invasion and remarries. So Poonani gets cared for by her sister and she dies in 2003. Have never recovered and was seemingly unaware of Paul Pots. Right. So she's just, yeah. she doesn't know what's going on basket so he gets Hodgkin's lymphoma which is is that a shaky thing is it kind of Parkinson's Jason I don't know is it a brain thing lumps I reckon what is it cancer cancer in the mouth in the lymph nodes in your throat I think right but he married a 22 year old it's Cambodia it's classic it's Cambodia Cambodia's now making a bit more sense the modern Cambodia's coming through bash this is it the long road to sex tourism.

22:02He travels to Beijing for treatment and while he's away, the Berlin Wall falls and the Cold War ends. And so with no Soviet threat, the US funding for Cambodian anti-communist efforts is withdrawn. Now, this is fascinating. Prince Sihanouk, King Sihanouk. Still alive. The titan, who had sort of gone into exile and said, I'm very sorry for the whole going with the Khmer Rouge. He comes back into power after the UN broke a peace deal between the Vietnamese and the Cambodians. And he then demands trial for all the Khmer Rouge leaders. Wow. And so Sihanouk holds the Guinness World Record for the most state roles held by a royal.

22:41So twice he was a king, twice he was a prince, one time he was president, and twice he was prime minister. Yeah. But he also had a rule that was... Wait, did he get... Do you have a picture of him with the Guinness World Record thing? Did he get one of those? He was head of state for life. I think that was his title at one point. Prime minister and head of state for life. so the Khmer Rouge agrees to a ceasefire Pol Pot gets banned from participating in elections yeah fair enough and then which he later boycotted yeah so this kind of there's a coalition government that formed and they start trying to fight the Khmer Rouge who are in the jungle and then by the early sort of 90s the Khmer Rouge only holds kind of small pockets of territory but they're still recognised as the sort of valid government it's crazy but is Sienuk back in power then?

23:25yeah so Sienuk's back in power and his own, sorry, so he is a legitimate leader. Yeah, it's quite extraordinary life. Is he king again? Is this Blair in Gaza then? I guess it's Blair in Gaza. So Pot is still forcing people under his rule to live like peasants. And then he does something like he basically builds a fucking bond lair in the jungle where he surrounds this treehouse complex with landmines and sharpened bamboo sticks. Right. And then he just lives in a fucking house. Maybe with a cat. Maybe I'm imagining. Right. I don't know. And so he gets kind of like bored. And then at some point in the mid-90s, he orders.

24:04He's getting no attention really anymore. He kidnaps. The Khmer Rouge kidnap. They capture a train. Right. They storm a train. And then he executes three backpackers, one British, one French, one Australian. Then some high-ranking Khmer Rouge guys defect. With 4 ,000 troops. Yeah. Which is a lot of Rouge's remaining power. He tries to kind of reinstate the discipline and sort of revive the 70s vibe. Let's go back to the 70s. 70s nostalgia. Yeah. He's still giving like seminars to his followers in his camp. He's basically just like holed out in the wilderness. One comment I recall, as a teacher who was brilliant, he had a sense of humour and he was warm-hearted towards you.

24:40He gave you confidence in yourself. There was clearly a charisma that we don't really know much apart from what he said about. But basically he's ill and he has heart problems as well, I think. And by 94, he's just hanging out with his daughter, to listening to music, reading. He orders the execution of one of the other Khmer Rouge guys in 1997. He gets Sonsen and 13 of his family members are run over by trucks, and the trucks then just reverse constantly back and forth over 13 people. So this is 1997 Pol Pot. Yeah. So he's still up to his tricks. Blair's come to power, and Pol Pot is in the forest getting people run over.

25:22Yeah, so he's still, it's like, I don't have the machinery I had before to kill it. I've just got a truck. Yeah. And, and someone's family. Yeah. But they do in terms of like how creative they are in killing people. It's kind of extraordinary. Cause that's another thing is that when he was a, I read this in the book when he was boy, when he was a boy and he was doing the drama, you know, he's in a drama drama school. Like he would tour the country. And what they would do is they just had a bus and they'd sleep under the bus in the, in the night, just crawl under the bus, sleep under there and then get back on the bus.

25:51Okay. So he must've been lying under the bus. and then 50 years later it was like this is quite a good way to kill someone after a 1997 coup led by ex-Kaiman Rouge official Hun Sen Pol Pot was arrested and placed under lifelong house arrest yeah so he has a public show trial which you can see on YouTube get it up Charlie get the bit where he defends himself he looks quite shaky and old and that's the thing about war criminals when they're old you sort of feel sorry for them because they're old and you're like they're never the man they were no but this is all this only really started happening 15 years ago something like that they went to trial.

26:24So Pol Pot is under house arrest, 97 to 98. And this is him describing his day. When all is calm, around 6 p.m., I go to bed under the mosquito net. I sleep alone. My wife and my daughter live elsewhere. Lovely. Only the masses of mosquitoes and insects that bite. Frankly, I'm bored, but I've grown used to the boredom. I feel sorry for him. Yeah. Bored. And then in, he still, he doesn't back down, saying that he still said he was a good leader. Yeah. And then in 1998, he dies of a heart attack, although a US journalist Nate Thayer believes he'd committed suicide with valium and chloroquine. What's that?

26:59Because he found out he was going to America. Oh, because he was going to be extradited. Oh, wow. He's going to be extradited. That'll be fun. Fuck. So he's going to be extradited to stand trial. His body was preserved in ice after a failed embalming. Oh, no, that's very sad. We're pro-embalming. We're big pro-embalming. Charlie, can you Google failed embalming? I want to see what that looks like. It's definitely something that's a pro for communists. that's something they definitely got right. They're not now. See, again, it's another reason why they're not proper communists, these guys. They can't embalm their leader.

27:27Is that like if you under varnish something? I guess so. Is it like dripping with like... I think you just fill it with fucking like oil that hardens or some shit. Failed embalming. Oh, dear. Man mistakenly mummified. So then he was frozen. He was preserved in ice. Oh. Pol Pong's... Pol Pong. I bet he was Pol Pong. Pol Pongy. He failed embalming. So his body is preserved in ice after a failed embalming, and his wife burned it on a pile of rubbish and tires in traditional fashion. Typical. Yeah. I guess it's not. Yeah. Tires. Rubbish and tires. Scrapyard. Yeah, it's a bit of scrap. Tradition. It's a bit of scrap.

28:06It's a bit of scrap yard, though, isn't it? Cambodian tradition. Is it? Rubbish and tires. Yeah. I'm not sure I wanted to be burned in a pile of rubbish. But what do you want to be burnt on? Hey. What would you like to be burnt on? Mahogany. Pizza oven. Mahogany. Yeah, really expensive. Pizza oven is normally the thing. I mean it's a hotter pizza oven I imagine you're slid in you want something which has a nice smell of the woods like really like nice wood chips and then yeah someone could be doing steak over the coals kind of thing next to me I think I would like to be as I'm being burned I'd like a grill on top and I'd like a boss man making making sheesh kebabs on top of that are you no no just on top of it are you spinning on a donna no no no just the circle of life I'm on the coals and then there's a grill and then there's a boss man doing sheesh kebabs have you been marinated hey Have you been marinated?

28:50Did you get the brush? No, I've been rubbed. I've been spice rubbed. Just giving a flavour to the coals. It's a nice sort of circle of life thing, isn't it? I would like to die of old age. I don't know if you're getting that. Of age then. I want to die because of my age. Right. Not because of like getting beaten up. You're either going to die in two years or live to 135. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Look, if you make it past 30, you're going to live. The problem is if you live to 135, then people will be like, oh, what's he doing to get there? And then everyone will try and copy you They'll all die at fucking 20.

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