In short
Part 1 of a 3-part series on the 40th anniversary of the Chernobyl disaster, framed as a Soviet “communist Titanic” and used to explain nuclear fission, reactor design, and the early chain of events leading toward the accident.
Guests
The episode is hosted by Fin (narrator) and Horatio Gould. No other named guests appear in this transcript.
Guest backgrounds
Horatio Gould is described as having visited Chernobyl/Pripyat in 2017; the hosts also discuss nuclear science basics and Soviet history in a comedic style.
Key claims
Soviet centralized secrecy and lack of accountability, plus production targets and bureaucratic pressure, discouraged reporting problems. The RBMK reactor design had dangerous characteristics (including a positive void coefficient) and control-rod graphite tips could cause a reactivity spike. The safety test was delayed and run at night, under conditions that made the reactor unstable.
Notable examples
Pripyat described as a “luxury” Soviet town near the Vladimir Ilyich Lenin Nuclear Power Station; the xenon “pit” concept during the low-power state; Anatoly Dyatlov as senior night supervisor; Victor Brukhanov as plant director; Alexander Akimov and Leonid Toptonov as shift roles.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOThe Legacy of Chernobyl
0:30 to 1:24
Exploration of the implications and narratives surrounding the Chernobyl disaster.
“It could be chronic migraine, 15 or more headache days a month, each lasting four hours or more.”
The Legacy of Chernobyl
3:06 to 6:23
Exploration of the implications and narratives surrounding the Chernobyl disaster.
“This week it is the 40th anniversary of Chernobyl.”
Visiting Pripyat
6:23 to 8:41
A personal account of visiting the abandoned town of Pripyat, highlighting its history.
Soviet Union and Nuclear Culture
8:41 to 14:01
Discussion on the cultural aspects of the Soviet Union during the time of Chernobyl.
“They get a scarf and wrap around their head out of respect.”
Introduction to Chernobyl and Its Context
14:01 to 17:08
Learn about the Chernobyl disaster's backdrop and historical significance.
“Speaking of women, this is, have you got Tatiana Sirocco?”
Understanding Nuclear Energy Basics
17:09 to 19:44
Discover the fundamentals of nuclear energy and the process of nuclear fission.
“in previous episodes about how triggering this podcast is to fucking wet bags who like science.”
The Risks of Nuclear Power and Half-Life
19:45 to 24:24
Explore the dangers associated with nuclear energy and the concept of half-life.
“No, trust me, it's way better for the environment.”
The Soviet Nuclear Program and Chernobyl's Design
24:25 to 28:00
Understand the Soviet Union's investment in nuclear technology and the design flaws of Chernobyl.
“waves go out of a radioactively unstable thing.”
Introduction to RBMK Reactor Technology
28:00 to 29:40
Learn about the unique Soviet RBMK reactor design and its implications.
Understanding Nuclear Reactor Operations
29:40 to 31:59
Explore how control rods function and the moderation process in reactors.
“You stick another thing in and it goes down and it's just moving up, down, up, down at the right times.”
Show all 16 chapters
Chernobyl's Key Figures: Dyatlov's Role
31:59 to 34:19
Examine the role of Anatoly Dyatlov in the Chernobyl disaster and his management style.
“For Christ's sake, pull yourself together.”
Sponsorship and Promotional Segments
34:19 to 36:00
Learn about Sweetgreen's fall menu and Botox for chronic migraine.
“You're always having to go and call Pete and be like, Pete, I don't know what you've done.”
The Chernobyl Safety Test and Its Flaws
36:00 to 42:00
Delve into the safety test conducted prior to the Chernobyl disaster and its failures.
“For a limited time, you can get a Big Mac meal for just$8.”
The Safety Test and Reactor Instability
42:00 to 47:28
Learn about the safety tests conducted at Chernobyl and the reactor's instability leading to catastrophic consequences.
“You were basically as stressed as the men in Reactor 4 control room.”
Critical Moments and Decisions
47:28 to 52:10
Discover the critical decisions made by Chernobyl operators during a stalled reactor and their disastrous outcomes.
“But under pressure from the bureaucrats, they continue.”
Critical Moments and Decisions
53:14 to 54:24
Discover the critical decisions made by Chernobyl operators during a stalled reactor and their disastrous outcomes.
“with seasonal favorites dressed to impress and made to be devoured.”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00Fall has never looked or tasted this good. Sweetgreens fall harvest menu is back with seasonal favorites dressed to impress and made to be devoured. Warm roasted sweet potatoes, crisp apples, maple glazed Brussels, and crave-worthy flavors in the autumn harvest bowl, maple glazed salmon plate, and roasted bacon Brussels side. The season's most desirable menu has returned to Sweetgreen, featuring fall's best dressed. Make your move. Order on the Sweetgreen app. I get so many headaches every month. It could be chronic migraine, 15 or more headache days a month, each lasting four hours or more. Botox, Autobotulinum Toxin A, prevents headaches in adults with chronic migraine.
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1:11Tell your doctor your medical history, muscle or nerve conditions, including ALS Lou Gehrig's disease, myasthenia gravis or Lambert-Eaton syndrome, and medications, including botulinum toxins, as these may increase the risk of serious side effects. Why wait? Ask your doctor. Visit BotoxChronicMigraine.com or call 1-800-44-BOTOX to learn more. For a limited time, you can get a Big Mac meal for just$8. That's a burger, fries, and a drink. They don't call it an extra value meal for nothing. Get a Big Mac meal only at McDonald's. Price and participation may vary. Promotion pricing may be lower than meal pricing.
1:45Hey, comrade Fred again. Yes, mate. I know it is your first night on shift. We are doing standard nuclear reactor test. Gonna be sick, mate. We're going to shut down the reactor four. Okay, yeah, cool. We will control the test with your remote control. Mate, don't you love it how anything can be music? Do you know what I mean? It's not relevant. If you could start the test by pressing V1 Mate... Mate that sounds good Mate that's like the backing track That's the fucking rhythm section right there Release water pumps V3 V3 made us Yeah fucking... Hotter, brother Manusgerized all over it V9 V9 brother let's go Comrade please The core will collapse The temperature is vacuumed to put in the bones Oh my god!
2:31Evacuate the... Evacuate the... It is, isn't it, brother? I feel quite sick. I feel that one in the room, brother. It's gonna be sick. It is sick, brother. My eyes are melting. I appreciate that. Mine too, brother. Mine too!
3:05welcome back to fin versus history i'm with horatio gould and this is one of our most requested topics we are getting finally to chernobyl it's time to show on our novels it is time to show on listeners it's the communist titanic yeah uh it's the world's worst nuclear disaster and for the first time we are somewhat relevant. You're very excited about this. This week it is the 40th anniversary of Chernobyl. Well it says 40th birthday and I'm glad you said anniversary because I think the birthday is weird because you start imbuing I start thinking of him as a man. Happy birthday to you. But it's also like Chernobyl being like I'm 40.
3:47Fuck. What have I done with my life? I'm so lonely. I've not had any mates for 40 years. I'm the world's worst nuclear disaster. Nah. No, you're not. No, you're not. You're not. Statistically. Oh, yeah, forget about statistics. Yeah. You're a good guy. So is this a guy who was born as the fire starts? No, this is just it anthropomorphizes the disaster and makes it a man who's kind of scared about aging on his 40th. Yes, I see. The 40th is not a happy birthday, I don't think. The 50th, I think, is a nice celebration. Well, there's someone who's closer to it than anyone in this room. I'd say it's...
4:25You're basically dead. no if i'm basically dead because of other reasons such as a fatal digestive collapse i'm not dying because of pure age right but you have to separate age from my digestive system i'm like you're pretty close to the world's worst nuclear disaster you're the second world's worst some of my some of my farts are in the top 10 yeah finland has to kill a lot of sheep when you fart all dogs must be put down immediately no they must be destroyed when i fart um no i mean in the way that brian johnson's uh erections are an 18 year old's erections in his own words yeah he don't don't win to the vice and something weird he says that right he's like i've got an 18 year old sorry i mean i only get an erection over 18 year olds no he's saying my erections are the same strength as an 18 year old and then he uses an excuse to fuck 18 year olds maybe maybe you i mean if i mean you should you should yeah why else are you doing it you're wasting yeah anyway in the same way that he hasn't he's a 50 year old man with an 18 year old boner i'm a 35 year old man with a 90 year old man's stomach in that uh i'm nearing i'm circling well it's a sovietly designed reactor core there's no accountability it's that the it's built to failure is inevitable.
5:45It is. And there's no, you know, there's a meddling bureaucracy above it. No one wants to take, you'll never take a responsibility. No, everyone's passing the buck. It's always someone else's fault. Well, it's biscuit day. There's biscuits in the house. I can't have biscuits in the house. Yeah, this is not my, I'm not the head of biscuits. You know, you have to go to that department. Comrade wife, why are these biscuits in the house? But also deny the fart. Say there is no fart. No, don't evacuate. It's fine. Carry on as normal. it's the 40th birthday of chernobyl happy birthday to chernobyl and um uh we're to celebrate we'll get a cake in episode three part three we'll get the cake out and the uh the very very sad stripper yeah who's really ill bless her um yeah it is don't let a cough on you imagine imagine there's a stripper still there waiting in a cake at chernobyl like it was someone's birthday in pripyat right in april 86 and they're wheeling in a stripper and a cake and then they went oh fuck we're gonna leave and she's still there being like all right yeah she's very committed to the job yeah yeah but she must look absolutely clapped now yeah this is the worst nuclear disaster the worst man-made disaster in history uh it's also the most expensive disaster in history estimated to have cost 700 billion us dollars i think this is one of the most interesting things ever personally i agree i think it's it's it's so weird and strange but also like one of the few examples where the world is potentially at risk well avengers films is always like and there were i will destroy the world and then you know a hero stops it but this is like a real life nearly fucked it for everyone the stakes are so high in this it's kind of insane oh it's funny how it's framed as a disaster when you could frame it as like well they fucking saved the world yeah in a way i mean they nearly ruined it but they saved it but that's that's why russian history is so like it's these sort of they build such amazing narratives by nearly always fucking it somehow yes but also i mean their commitment to sacrifice to so you should be said this is in the soviet union which and we're in ukraine and you know i've been to chernobyl hey you've been to chernobyl i went in 2017 is that why your eyes are so far apart
7:57no it's genetic did your mother go there when you're in the womb is that why yeah i'm a snowball baby oh that makes sense right i went to pripyat in the snow uh oh you've got to see it in the snow you've got lovely in the snow don't eat green snow uh and we got uh taken around by there's this guide uh and you have a geiger counter that starts like building up as you go and it's like that you go into some of the classrooms and it's the date's been half written on the board because they've had to evacuate as they're writing the mid-class uh and the town was only built in 1970 so it's like it's weird it's a new the for the soviet's most modern town it's milton keens it's milton keens there was evacuated in 1986 so it's such a weird life of a town being new and completely ruined abandoned yeah it's really strange but it was amazing uh this is the most expensive disaster in history as i said uh now this is the start of a three-part series um and well there's going to be a lot of science in this episode which i will apologize in advance for um before we get into uh this what happened at chernobyl yeah let's take a look at the fittest soviet woman uh in the 1980s soviets up there with the fittest country russians uh well top end well i'm saying but obviously we're not in russia we're in ukraine and at time of record chernobyl is the worst thing that's happened in ukraine right uh that's a that's an open-ended i mean who knows what's going to happen uh i'd say the um the soviets until the age of sort of late 20s possibly the fittest i'd say they when they become when they become mothers they go off a cliff yeah they you know you could milk yeah yeah milk does something breast milk does something to russian women and they become fucking bricks that you could build houses with i mean yeah it's about when do you get the babushka thing it's almost like immediately cover up yes but they have respect that as soon is they're no longer like a 10 out of 10 fittest woman ever.
9:50They get a scarf and wrap around their head out of respect. They put a burka on. And they go 90 degrees. I'm there suddenly. It is, yeah. Inside every gorgeous 25 year old Russian is a absolute shit brick house of a 40 year old Russian woman. Is this your dad's tipple? Soviet women? Yeah. He's getting married to a Russian woman in June. Oh, congrats. I'm the best man. You're the best man? I'm the best man, yeah. Really? Yeah. Are you? Yeah. You're doing a best man speech for your dad? I'll do a best man, yeah. Wow, that's great. Will you find me fun? Where's he getting married? I think it's only going to be like a legal wedding.
10:23So I'm not going to do the whole bells and whistles. Okay, so you're not doing a speech? I'll do a speech, but it will be like pretty low-key. There's only like 40 people going. Best man for your dad. That's pretty cool. I guess I'm a Nepo baby for getting the job. Yes. I guess if my dad had his next wedding was gay or something, I guess I'd be. But you've got to think, you know, if you're getting married in your late 60s, men after 50 we were talking about this last week you don't have friends really it's harder to keep friends it's very suspicious for a manager to have friends I mean Charlie your dad has no friends right he's got no mates no he just likes hanging out with my mum yeah but he's fine with it my dad has a couple of people who are mates for a bit but then they start they nearly always join reform or start selling crypto scams yes and then he backs away and he's like I thought this guy was the best guy ever it's like oh no what a shock listing his net worth Yeah, there's one of his mates' list of net worth.
11:1623 million, Dubai. Yeah. Beast. Kind of beast. Fall has never looked or tasted this good. Sweetgreen's fall harvest menu is back with seasonal favorites dressed to impress and made to be devoured. Warm roasted sweet potatoes, crisp apples, maple glazed Brussels, and crave worthy flavors in the autumn harvest bowl, maple glazed salmon plate, and roasted bacon Brussels side. The season's most desirable menu has returned to Sweetgreen, featuring fall's best dressed. Make your move. Order on the Sweetgreen app. I get so many headaches every month. It could be chronic migraine, 15 or more headache days a month, each lasting four hours or more.
11:59Botox, autobotulinum toxin A, prevents headaches in adults with chronic migraine. It's not for those who have 14 or fewer headache days a month. Prescription Botox is injected by your doctor. Effects of Botox may spread hours to weeks after injection, causing serious symptoms. Allerge your doctor right away as difficulty swallowing, speaking, breathing, eye problems, or muscle weakness can be signs of a life-threatening condition. Patients with these conditions before injection are at highest risk. Side effects may include allergic reactions, neck and injection site pain, fatigue, and headache.
12:27Allergic reactions can include rash, welts, asthma symptoms, and dizziness. Don't receive Botox if there's a skin infection. Tell your doctor your medical history, muscle or nerve conditions, including ALS Lou Gehrig's disease, myasthenia gravis or Lambert-Eaton syndrome, and medications, including botulinum toxins, as these may increase the risk of serious side effects. Why wait? Ask your doctor. Visit BotoxChronicMigraine.com or call 1-800-44-BOTOX to learn more. For a limited time, you can get a Big Mac meal for just$8. That's a burger, fries, and a drink. They don't call it an extra value meal for nothing.
13:02Get a Big Mac meal only at McDonald's. Price and participation may vary. Promotion pricing may be lower than real pricing. Your dad, does he have any mates? He's got far too many mates. That's suspicious. Yeah, well, it is suspicious. He's a gay man. He's a gay man. Yes, mates. Yeah, no, he's always, he goes to the theatre, he sees his friends. He listens to women. There's something deeply wrong with this man. No, in another age, my father would be chemically castrated. And I would not exist. To stop him making friends. To stop him making friends. To stop him talking. And you're shedding friends now as you hurtle towards 40.
13:38Yes, I am shedding friends. I am. I've deliberately tried not to go out to stuff, which is why I'm not in the Epstein files. I don't go to parties. But if you did, you would be. Well, yeah, I'm a man. I'd be like, well, all right, what are we drinking? Okay, 14-year-olds, fine. I'll wear the shirt. Yeah, I'll wear the shirt. Go on, Bill. Yeah, this is quite fun, actually. This is what we're doing. I'm easily laid. I'm a sheep. I need a woman to tell me what to do. Speaking of women, this is, have you got Tatiana Sirocco? Yeah. She is the daughter of nuclear physicists, and she grew up in a secret nuclear research community.
14:10Do they make her in a lab? Wow. Yes, she looks very nice. Lovely. Is that her there with getting her waps out? Yeah, lovely stuff. Well, Chernobyl was not all bad. Now, we're in Ukraine, and the disaster is in April 1986. Maybe we should place this. What's this? Is this? Just before the hand of God. I was about to say. just before the hand of god is it wait so when was that that was must have been the summer 86 right uh and it was after the uh nietzsche killed god and went cross-eyed yeah or were you going to think of one of right after the invention of the pc plod the term pc plod uh beforehand of god after pc plod no no check that because pc plod is in noddy is he not which is it after George Michael's first sex scandal.
15:04There you go. He's rhymed it. Okay, that's pretty good. What were you going to say? It was after George Michael's first sex scandal. What, the toilets? Cottaging? Yeah, I think so. I don't know if he'd come out in the 80s, in the 80s. No, no, right. Yeah, no. Far off. Blair's in power when he's cottaging. Yeah, fine. Yeah, the Blair years. The Blair years. That's when it just goes down the toilet. Yeah, well, more than the country goes down the toilet. Michael goes in there and starts noshing people off. We are in Pripyat. Pripyat? which is that's a new city which you've been to and Chernobyl is the name of the plant or is it that's the area I can't remember I think that's the name of the plant that's the name of the plant but the city is called Pripyat and it's Milton Keynes but for people who work in nuclear science or is the power plant the Vladimir Ilyich Lenin nuclear power plant and then Chernobyl is probably the area then Chernobyl is the nearby town maybe no Pripyat is the nearby town no I know Pripyat is built for the town but why is it called Chernobyl that's pretty handy Charlie just we're out here just throw a life raft It is the Chernobyl nuclear power plant in Pripyat.
16:04Anyway. Anyway, who cares? But what is interesting is that Pripyat, because this is like the pride and joy of the Soviet Union, they put a lot of money into nuclear because that's their space age. That was like their whole branding and they wanted to show off to the world that they could lead in nuclear engineering, which is quite funny. They built Pripyat as like a luxury town in many ways because there's a lot of money going into it. and it's funny that you don't really get that i only recently found that out with this research i always just thought it was a shit soviet town yeah it's interesting with soviet towns you cannot tell what's what's luxury or not i think it's luxury because it has like flowers line the streets yeah but it's still just a fucking it's blocks it's still just dagging them right yeah yeah yeah the soviet union is just dagging them do you know what i mean like type in pripyat like this is meant to be like oh la-dee-da dig cop power station i grew up near it shout out dig cop you grow up.
16:57I did, yeah. They recently destroyed it. Yeah, they did. Yeah, they collapsed from one of the turbines. I love watching them do that. Did you see them do it? I just watched it on telly. Yeah, I watched it. I watched a clip of it. Yeah. Let's get some background on nuclear energy. Now, I must say that I got many messages in previous episodes about how triggering this podcast is to fucking wet bags who like science. Yes. They're fine with accents. They're fine with all sorts of other things getting wrong, but they cannot handle us talking about science. Now, we've been very clear that we don't know or care about a lot of gay stuff like science.
17:33None of us. We don't have any shit. This podcast, we can cover quite a few interests. Yes. Science, no one's picking it up. What's coal? What is coal? Now, in our Thatcher series, we dealt with coal mining. And none of us know what coal is, it turns out. And so what we think it is, and I still don't really know any better than this, is that it is burnt toast that people black up to go underground to get out. Right? An excuse to black up in the north. Now, nuclear energy is a green energy source, which is better because people don't have to black up to get it out. Yeah, and it tastes like an apple sweet.
18:06It's sweet, yeah, and it's glowing. It's like sherbet, I think. So the process of obtaining nuclear energy does not emit CO2 or smoke, and it comes from a process called nuclear fission. Oh, yeah. So, oh, my God, there's a graph. Right, so you get atoms like uranium or unstable atoms like plutonium U235 or whatever. Obviously. Right, one of them. Yeah. This is an unstable atom, which I think means it's just sort of wobbly. It's not balanced with the neutron, the proton, and the fucking other one. Unstable. Yeah, it's wobbly. I think it needs to have all three of the ones, and then it stops wobbling as much.
18:45So that's why it's going like... Basically, these atoms, they fire out neutrons. Yeah. And then they bounce off walls, right? And they split. So they're parkouring. Yeah, these atoms are parkouring around. Backflipping off walls, fucking jumping. Whoa, like just running across buildings. Very unstable. And that process emits energy. And then that heats up water. Yeah, that's what was interesting, I thought. Which then creates steam and the steam powers stuff. Because I guess, did you think that nuclear power plants worked where it was like you put the green thing in and it went like... Yeah, the Simpsons.
19:27That's all my... And that was the energy. Yeah. And you just took some of that like... Yeah. And that went in. I didn't realise it's still just steam. Steam, yeah. It's just a really dangerous way of making steam. Yeah. Just boil a kettle. Boil a kettle, mate. Yeah. Could you make nuclear fish and tea? Yeah, probably. Probably some of these nonces listening do. No, trust me, it's way better for the environment. In my command centre, I've got this fish and tea. What? Apparently, we're made of atoms. Well, supposedly, but I don't believe that. You don't buy it? No, I don't buy it. What do you think you're made of?
20:06I'm flesh and blood. Yeah. Or do you think the atoms is bollocks? I'm a poo hole in a bone and a brain. That's basically me. I'm not atoms. Wait, do you think atoms... Because to be honest, they could lie to us about atoms. I don't fucking know. Because we cannot see atoms. I don't know. They could have fucking lied to us. You know what I mean? But they're different things. There's not like a fingernail in a box and it's creating steam because they're firing it around. So it's not... What are you talking about? What are you talking about? If I'm made of atoms, right, and you've got atoms in a box in a reactor, it's not like a fingernail, is it?
20:39No, but I think it's the uranium atoms. Yes. It's the specific structure of the atoms of these things. I think your fingernail atoms maybe are not the right structure. Exactly. Don't say exactly as if we've been... We're saying the same thing. Exactly. We're saying the same thing. Thank you.
21:00What? Apparently there's space between all of the atoms. So actually you're kind of made of air. There's actually... You're kind of spongy. Well, we're meant to be 70 % water, but again, I don't buy that. Do you not? No. Bollocks. Bollocks. I do doubt it. I'm 70 % bother most of the time. So in a nuclear power station, this reaction, which we've explained perfectly, must be carefully regulated because you're basically creating chain reactions. Yeah, but I think regulations is what's destroying the economy. Red tape, yes, I agree. In many ways, this is a victory for freedom from red tape, Chernobyl.
21:34Nuclear fission creates a chain reaction, right? And an uncontrolled chain reaction is an atomic bomb. Right. Right, which seems like a lot of risk for the reward of getting a cup of tea. Right? Why don't we drop a bomb in order to make a fucking cup of Tetley's? Yeah, or just boil a kettle out. Let's split the atom. Guys, kettles exist. Anyway, why don't you just have 100 kettles in a box? Right. But how do you power the kettle? What? How do you power the kettle? Electricity. Where do you get that from? Well, wherever it comes from now. Oh, that's a good point. Lightning. There you go. Okay, so you need a leg up, but then once you're up and running, the kettles will be self-regulating.
22:19You use the steam from some kettles. So you need to jumpstart the one kettle. Yeah, and the steam from that powers the other one, and that's a chain reaction. So we only need nuclear energy for one kettle, and then the rest should... Yeah, you get the green glowing thing, and you put that in a bottle. That powers one kettle. Then you turn the green thing off, and then you just raise kettles. Anyway, the heat produced by the fish bottles water which creates steam that spins turbines which creates electricity right uh these plants are very expensive to build uh and also any radioactive waste must be managed safely because that they have a it has a half-life did you learn about half-life at school well i played the computer game half-life there's amazing game amazing game half-life half-life yeah no not so much Chernobyl blur yeah Chernobyl blur half life oh it's like half life the bin men don't come anymore and I don't go to school on Wednesdays half life my skin's falling off and my arse has fallen out the bin men's nose is where his eyes are half life my baby's got seven fingers half life oh the people so many people they all got cancer now all because of this half-life I feed the pigeons I sometimes feed the sparrows too but now they're all fucking dead half-life brilliant anyway so the consequences of failure are severe as may have just been indicated by our but the half-life that is where it gets what's interesting about nuclear because obviously the fact that it's just steam is a little disappointing because of how dramatic nuclear stuff is but half-life is kind of terrifying right yeah it's like energy forever so do you understand half-life at all i don't really understand it have i got life shut up shut up now there's gonna be a lot of that this is i'm too stupid to talk about this i can't have you being even more stupid than me because i'm already stupid so you just shut up yeah yeah half-life i believe it's like radioactive waves go out of a radioactively unstable thing.
24:32I believe half-life is when it's how long it takes something to decompose. But the half-life could be thousands of years. That's what I mean. Which means that it takes thousands of years to only go halfway. And then it goes thousands of years again to go half of that. And so it's very, very, very slow. It's exponential, but in the opposite direction. So what's given everyone cancer is radiation. and how that works is it waves like this, right? Going like that and then it goes into your skin and it disrupts the skin because it's going like... And it fucks with your DNA. Yeah, it goes right under...
25:05So it fucking works in those pockets. Like Thomas Muller. Yeah. Right? So it's in between the lines. Yeah. And it disrupts... Pep Guardiola is half-life. Yeah, Sam Allerlyse has got no answer. But that stuff does kind of just really give me the boogles. Because there's something truly terrifying And that's why this is a issue to solve for humanity is so terrifying because it's like there's something like a Greek tragedy about like, not even a Greek tragedy, a Greek myth about flying too close to the sun, basically unlocking something that you shouldn't have. Yeah, well, it's Pandora's box, isn't it?
25:39Yeah, completely. So during the Cold War, the Soviet Union has invested in nuclear technology. And as you said, it's tied to the prestige and it's the space age. And the USSR rapidly expands its nuclear power program from the 50s onwards. And the expansion happens within this very centralized and crucially secretive political culture where there's no accountability and no one wants to take the blame for anything. They're all middle managers. The Soviet Union, as we discussed in our Lenin Russian Revolution series, does mean the union of meetings. Yes, that is what it means. A Soviet is a meeting.
26:15Yeah. So it's the country of the union of council meetings. It's a nightmare. And part of the problem of the Russian Revolution is something that should be very excited is handicapped by the amount of meetings they have before anything happens. Yeah, the amount of Jackie Weaver's. Yeah, it's generally like if you're watching Too Fast, Too Furious and then before every car chase, Jackie Weaver comes on and there's like a meeting about where they're going to do the car chase. Anyway, so the nuclear sector is governed by these strict hierarchies. And as ever, there are these intense production targets that people are being judged on.
26:49and so this discourages open criticism or any problems being reported because everyone's just looking after their own back. The Chernobyl nuclear power plant is constructed in the late 70s and it is part of the Soviet Union's expanding nuclear energy program and as you said, it's officially named the Vladimir Ilyich Lenin Nuclear Power Station. Surprise, surprise. Chernobyl refers to a nearby town which is not Pripyat. Okay, fine. Anyway. So it's about 100 kilometers from Kiev. It's near Belarus and its site is chosen because it has access to water from the Pripyat River which you don't need. you need because you need to heat something up to create steam.
27:21It's relatively distant from major urban centers, although who cares when you're going to blow this thing to shit. And it's designed to be a major electricity supplier for Ukraine and beyond. So Pripyat was built to plant the workers and their families. And yeah, it's like Milton Keynes, but Soviet. If you think Milton Keynes is depressing, check out Pripyat. By the mid 80s, it had about 50 ,000 people living there, young families and I suppose they were skilled employees it was considered one of the nicest places to live in the USSR yeah there you go so what does that even mean that's the most tallest dwarf yeah it is it's Dagenham yeah Dagenham with flowers but the flowers are there not because a kid's been killed by a car on a roundabout so the reactor Bolshoi Mnzosti Kaulni the RMBMK reactor this is not the same technology that the West uses right we use a green thing that homer simpson drops exactly that's fine that makes a lot more sense yeah but these are soviet designs because a part of soviet prestige is being able to come up with your own technology uh as critics later joked and bear in mind these uh science people who don't know what funny is they said our rbmk more like ridiculously badly made kettle i mean you say that that's just what we said well no that's exactly what we said no i said we could be using thousands of kettles to achieve the same effect right okay well-made kettles right okay anywayrd rwmks yes ridiculously well made kettles yes they should have used an rwmk reactor many nuclear reactors now that the rbmk uses graphite as a moderator you gotta have it's like in the oj trial getting an asian to do it yes you're right yeah he's what was his name lance ito graphite is the lance ito this it's like let's moderate this whites versus blacks hang on there's an asian ref so this will be fair who's the four who's the fourth official um i knew it yeah right anyway so the moderator is something that is there to slow down the neutrons so the neutrons of this unstable atom are firing around fizzing about they're fizzing about uh they've got adhd on a math scale they're stimming they're stimming and then uh graphite is a fidget spinner It's a fidget spinner.
29:38Exactly. In simple terms, the more effective the moderation, the more energy gets released. You stick one thing in and it goes up. You stick another thing in and it goes down and it's just moving up, down, up, down at the right times. Right? Yeah, when you say it like that, I guess. I guess they must have been fucking idiots to get this wrong. So you have a thing called a control rod. And control rods are inserted into the reactor core to absorb the neutrons and to dampen the reaction. The control rods are pushed down into the core. They reduce power. When they're pulled out, power gets increased.
30:12What is it, Charlie? Well, I was wondering if you thought, you know like the theory about how monkeys will write Shakespeare if you just leave them to it forever? Yeah. Do you think you'd ever come up with this? Does that still work when it's coming up with a nuclear reactor core? If you give a million monkeys a million typewriters... Well, infinite. It has to be infinite. Infinite. Will they come up with a nuclear reactor? Will they? They probably would. Well, not with a typewriter. That's got nothing to do with it. They'd be able to write the rule books of the... Well, yeah, because it's infinite, then yeah.
30:41I think I'd still be in the hills. Yeah, but you're just one bloke. If you gave Infinite Charlies infinite typewriters, I mean, at least 10 ,000 of you would shove it up your arse. Yeah, but there's loads of us. Yes, exactly. There is loads, to be fair. Yeah. But I still don't think one of you would make nuclear vision. How am I seeing a neutron? Well, yeah, I don't know. I have to come up with a microscope before I even do that, and a pen. it's come with a pen you've got to be able to make a pen back yourself I don't know if I would immediately but you're just thinking about you on your own I'd stand on the shoulders of my giants yeah to eventually luckily you've got infinite amount of time yeah so you will eventually crack it so look right so there are these big control rods and they get pushed down into the core and they reduce the power and stability of the reactor depends on maintaining the balance between the fuel which is the the uranium or whatever the graphite moderator the coolant flow and the control rod position.
31:40Come to me now. Ladies, calm down. No, that's not me asking for sex. You're hysterical. Please, calm yourself. Go to the toilet, take some deep breaths and change your pants. I can smell them from here. We're talking about the science of Chernobyl. Now is not the time, okay? For Christ's sake, pull yourself together. I don't think you should be listening to this, frankly. You shouldn't be in here. You shouldn't be in here. This is not for you. All right. This is for men who don't see women because they live underground. Now, now we've dealt with the science comprehensively. Everyone knows how a nuclear reactor works.
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32:14Dip in, it goes up, take out, goes down. And there's a big button that says blow it all to shit. And I think maybe they press that. Which in the review, they said, take that button out because it serves no purpose. Yes. Having to blow up the whole thing. Why have you got to blow up the whole thing button? I don't know. I just thought. Let's get into some of the characters that are a part of this story. the man who is the senior figure on the night shift uh on the event on the night this happened was a guy called anatoly diatlov who in the chernobyl miniseries yes is arguably besmirched yes he gets a pretty rough ride yeah and seemingly obviously they blame the systemic issues of the soviet union for chernobyl but he seems to be one of the nastiest naughtiest men ever yeah he's just the worst boss of all time like insecure lazy rude and causes Chernobyl and that so they put it kind of all on him yeah it's all these like well-behaved nuclearizers who just try and do their job and he's like yeah do it it's fine which is amazing to be someone in charge of a nuclear power plant to be that reckless and ignorant oh fuck it no just do it do it fuck it I want to go home.
33:22Boring. Dired now. But sir, it says it's about to blow. I don't care. Oh, fuck off. Do it. This is something we found out. Dyatlov. So, died December 1995. Now, Charlie, when is your birthday? February 96. Are you saying he's a spirit? Are you going to spirit a Woden, Dyatlov? When Dyatlov died, Charlie was in the womb. Right. So, I believe that in the way that the spirit of Woden went from from Nietzsche to Hitler to you. Yes, yeah. I believe the spirit of Dyatlov at the time when he died, it came into you and you were Dyatlov reborn. But instead of mismanaging a nuclear powerpoint, you're mismanaging this podcast.
34:09You're the Dyatlov of this podcast. Yeah, you are. And actually, do you know what? Every time we press record, there is a meltdown by the way. I don't know what's going on. It's the spirit of Dyatlov. You're always having to go and call Pete and be like, Pete, I don't know what you've done. I don't know what's happened here. Just get on with it. Get on with it. And you look like a dinner lady. Do I? Yeah. Fall has never looked or tasted this good. Sweet Greens Fall Harvest Menu is back with seasonal favorites dressed to impress and made to be devoured. Warm roasted sweet potatoes, crisp apples, maple glazed Brussels, and crave worthy flavors in the Autumn Harvest Bowl, maple glazed salmon plate, and roasted bacon Brussels side.
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36:00For a limited time, you can get a Big Mac meal for just$8. That's a burger, fries, and a drink. They don't call it an extra value meal for nothing. Get a Big Mac meal only at McDonald's. Price and participation may vary. Promotion pricing may be lower than real pricing. Dyatlov was born in 1931. And he is a Ukrainian. He's born in, I think he dies in Kiev anyway. He grows up in Siberia. He ran away from home when he was 14. He studied engineering, graduated in 59. And he's worked in nuclear reactors for Soviet submarines. But he'd already had prior radiation exposure from an accident in that job.
36:42so i mean this is charlie's cv yeah yeah it is actually um so by the 1970s he's considered for experience with reactor systems uh so he is the senior supervisor on the night of the disaster and he oversees he's overseeing a safety test uh uh which is what's going on so the other characters in this story before we get to the safety test you've got victor brukhanov who's the plant director and he is very much a guy who is all politics like he is entirely obsessed he's not really obsessed with safety he's obsessed with his promotion it's all civil service right yeah it's all about a ladder that you need to just slowly work your way up brukhanov is under pressure from higher ups to keep the plant meeting these targets and to avoid disruptions to the grid i think maybe in the years reading up to 86 chernobyl had hit like exceeded its production targets by you know 100 or something yeah and they wanted to keep it up yeah now there are i think there are the four reactors at chernobyl i think there are four rbmk reactors and what they are doing in april 26 on april 26 is they are running a safety test and what they want to work out is if If you cut external power for like a second or two seconds before the backup diesel generators kick in, there's like a little lag of two seconds.
38:08And what they want to know is if the steam that is already being produced can fill that two second gap and power the reactor so that there's no drop in electricity. Yeah. So that's what they're doing on the night. Now, around Dyatlov are these other people. You've got Alexander Akimov, who's the shift supervisor. Leonid Toptonov, who's a 25-year-old engineer. He's responsible for managing the actual reactor. That's not Leonid Lewis, Charlie, although these people do keep bleeding, and that's part of the problem with radiation sickness. Is that what that song's about? I think so, yeah. Wow. Now, the RBMK has several weaknesses.
38:51one of the most significant is what is known as a positive void coefficient I said stop listening ladies positive void coefficients which is when in a low power condition if water in the reactor turns to steam the reaction can accelerate rather than slow down this is exactly what we didn't want to happen it's a button that says press this for the opposite to happen why have we got an opposite button and the graphite is the issue because the reactor is using graphite and water cooling a loss of water does not necessarily mean a reduction in reactivity I don't understand why, I don't understand this no he's getting a bit too much now I don't understand this but also what I do understand it's like they went in at the wrong time they're meant to go into the water and that's what makes the steam maybe the water wasn't in so it just went straight into the reactor and then that caused a wreck Well, you also have, is it boron or xenon?
39:51It's the opposite of graphite. Boron. Boron. Boron. I think that's what they would, yeah. Maybe they misheard him going, boring. Let's put boron in. Anyway, the tips of the control rods that are meant to shut down the reactor, they've got graphite on them, on the tips. So when the rods that are meant to shut down the reactor go in, the graphite displaces water before the neutron absorbing section of the rods take effect. I mean... So the water's gone so the graphite goes directly into the core. I guess so. And that's really bad, I believe. Yeah. But in the wrong conditions, this can cause a short spike in reactivity at precisely the moment the operators are trying to reduce power.
40:41so basically the really bad kettle the reactor it can be operated safely but there are very strict parameters of how you the margin for error is far too big well it's very small margin for error small margin for error Charlie why are you googling golden eye weaponry because I can't concentrate because that's to do with nuclear bombs isn't it no I think it is No, it's a satellite with a laser, I think. Which is nuclear. I don't think it is. Similar. Big hardware. It's hard, yeah. No, you're not wrong. It's hard. There's a lot of gear involved with them. Yeah, there's gear involved. You can't have a nuclear reactor in your kind of toilet or in your bedroom.
41:23Well, I sometimes do have a nuclear reactor in my toilet. But I'd prefer it if you called her Amanda. Yeah, and she is unstable. Okay. And she has a very, very large margin for error. Very small margin for error. I mean, it's a very small margin for error. Some of the stuff. But you're misreporting statistics to try and get ahead in the world. I'm cooking the books. Yeah. I'm not going to be, I'm not passing the buck. You know? But there's an accident. It's inevitable. Yeah, it is. It's inevitable. So, I mean, basically, your holiday sounds like you were up there in your ski lodge. You were doing some safety tests.
42:05You were doing some safety tests. constantly flushing the toilet. It sounds like you were... He's a natlov in the toilet. You were basically as stressed as the men in Reactor 4 control room. Oh, no. Oh, no. Just flushing the toilet. Oh, fuck. Oh, no, no, no. Yeah. So the test aims to see whether the turbine, which is still spinning after a shutdown, could generate enough residual power to bridge the gap in the seconds between the loss of electricity and the generator starting up. It had been tried before, but earlier tests had produced disappointing results. Suspicious. so management want success partly for paperwork partly for credibility and partly because they face distinct pressure to deliver successful tests right originally they meant to do it in the day yeah uh but it got delayed because the reactor was playing up right but anyway they they knock it into the night shift which is perhaps why the outlaw's so cranky you know boron boron so the early hours of 26th of april unit four is being pushed into a low power regime where the rbmk was least forgiving and they're about to start the test right so let's get to the night everything goes wrong because the reactor had spent longer than intended at reduced power uh the reactor was becoming unstable right the control rods are partially inserted just a little bit like yeah teasing there are there are people listening who will use this analogy when they're having sex you're ready for my control rod to be partially inserted into the rectal core i go oh shut down um there's been a catastrophic accident that's what they say when they cover their pants but that sort of implies that everyone in the control room is a evacuate is a nuclear cuck almost watching it happen just sitting in the chair watching rods insert I mean it is a bit I'm reaching critical mass it is a bit sexual watching rods go into a core yeah so the rods are partially inserted just the tip just the tip just the fucking tip water is circulated at high levels to begin the safety test power has to be lowered to around 30 % operators insert the control rods further increasing their depth in the core fuck this also increases water flow yeah I mean it's very it's getting very horny I mean, people listening, I pray for them.
44:24The operators insert the control rods further. The water flow has increased. The combination cools the reactor more than expected and suppresses reactivity. This doesn't normally happen. At the same time, the xenon gas begins to accumulate. Fuck. Now, as the power drops, xenon levels rise. Okay, so effectively, the reactor is being smothered by its own exhaust. Bet it is. so instead of stabilizing where is it sitting on its face is that what you're implying Charlie instead of stabilizing at 30 % okay power collapses to around 1 % the reactor now the reactor had entered a xenon pit ladies I'm sorry I'm sorry I'm so sorry to say but the reactor has entered a xenon pit I'm sorry I wish it wasn't the case it doesn't happen this doesn't normally happen but my reactor has entered a xenon pit I'm sorry I'm very very sorry it's an absolute xenon It's a xenon pit down here.
45:21I'm very, very sorry. And I have reached a stall state in which sustaining a chain reaction has become difficult.
45:31Well, these are all great lines for erectile dysfunction. This is brilliant. Sorry, I've reached a stall state in which sustaining a chain reaction has become incredibly difficult. Yeah. You must remember that an unregulated chain reaction is essentially an atom bomb. And that's what's happened down there. Okay? I've been trying to power you safely but I've ended up absolutely if I keep pushing it's going to be in danger the surrounding area and potentially the whole of Europe if I keep having sex with you then twice the energy that was emitted at Hiroshima will be emitted every hour for the next 220 ,000 years it's a great it's a great way of a nerdy guy who can't keep it up somehow getting power of the situation do you know that if I come in my pants now
46:19before you touch me again i'm incredibly reactive to your touch i will explode if you touch me my reactor core has entered a xenon pit steam will come up my ears if you enter if you put a control rod in me now water levels are remaining high xenon concentration has increased the The reactor is becoming hard to control. So Toputnov and Akimov have been faced with a stalled reactor. It's about 1.30 in the morning, right? So they're tired. Dyatlov's going, go, just fucking come on. Fuck off. Get on with it. Fucking do it. Do it. He's got an eye mask on and said, don't wake me up. Yeah. He's got cucumbers in his eyes.
47:04Right. So they're faced with a stalled reactor, and it's no longer sitting in a stable range. so they have a choice. Do they abandon the test? Do we abandon the test and stabilise the unit? Or should we try to recover power and carry on? Please don't say the second one. Please don't. Please pick option one. I need to stabilise my unit. I need to abandon the test. The test's failed. But under pressure from the bureaucrats, they continue. And so they raise power again and they begin withdrawing control rods, which keeps the test running, which then narrows the margin for safety. so there are protections that could have been interrupted that had run to the procedure they've been disabled or bypassed automatic systems that would normally limit rod withdrawal have been overridden eventually most of the control rods are removed now the power they think is going to rise it's meant to rise quickly but it rises very slowly so it only reaches about 7 % of power which means the reactor is now in an unstable configuration it's only being controlled by the high water levels and the neutron absorbing effects of xenon.
48:13Right. It is operating outside safe parameters, but technically still running. Right. So is the system still saying it's running? Charlie, what have you Googled? Has Chernobyl led to Paralympians? Here we go. Team USA's highly decorated champion, Oksana Masters. She was born in 89. Three years after. With several physical disabilities believed to be caused by radiation exposure, including missing weight-bearing bones in her legs, non-functional knees. I have non-functional knees. I genuinely, it clicks every time. This one clicks every time I squat. And the weekend, I came up from a deep squat and I had a really big pop and it's been killing me ever since.
48:55Mine click as well. I'm like Alan Partridge standing up. Yeah. Ah, yeah, it's awful. Let the dog see the... Mangled rabbit. Oh, she's gorgeous. So this is... Look at this lady. fucking radiation baddie
49:13when did baddie become slur for a fit woman she's got no she's got webbed fingers no thumbs and six toes in each foot fucking hell I could do a lot with that
49:29Christ you're getting a wristy from the thing from A Shape of Water yes I suppose it is is that what that film was about yeah um so let's have a look at uh so she she moves the us has both legs amputated above the knee and she so what is what's her sport though she's a multi-sport superstar numerous medals summer and winter fuck so every one of the most successful paralympians in history yeah every every poisonous acid cloud yeah every radiation cloud every mushroom every mushroom cloud every mushroom cloud has a fucking glowing lining para cross country skiing para biathlon para cycling she's won 24 medals total fuck me cheating almost well there's a point where Paralympians are cheating and I suppose the committee has to find that line but this could have been the whole idea behind Chernobyl to stimulate the loss of power Akimov and the other cunt reduce water flow to the reactor.
50:31The pump's slow. Water begins to boil away. The cooling decreases. Zenon levels also begin to fall. And the very factors that have been suppressing the reaction start to disappear. With no water and no Zenon, reactivity surges. Akimov presses the emergency shutdown button. The AZ-5. The fuck it button. The fuck it. Right. This is that meme of the superhero with the two buttons, right? This is designed to insert all the control rods and halt the reaction. Because the graphite stabilizes reaction the graphite tip control rods stabilize the reaction that's what the yes but the flaw is that the graphite tips mean that that um displaces the water and increases the reactivity before the rods can actually arrive so it's the tips is that lag is that two second lag between it's less than that less than a millisecond lag but uh in a stable reactor this spike would be minor but in the unstable conditions inside reactor four it proves catastrophic power surges oh the erection comes back oh it's back our reactor's stable quick quick quick fuel channels are my fuel channels are ruptured water flashes instantly into steam generating it this is a guy desperately trying not to come in the condom he's just trying to desperately get it in before so please i need to lose the momentum.
51:51Enormous pressure is generating. The control rods are jammed. With cooling gone and no effective graphite moderation, the chain reaction runs out of control. At 1.23 a.m., the reactor's power rises sharply. In our next episode, we will deal with what happened that night. The biggest bust in history. The biggest bust in history that causes an entire city to be evacuated. A Ukrainian virgin has splooched all over Pripyat. The whole of Europe, the whole of the world is at risk. The next two parts in our epic three-parter on Chernobyl are already on the Patreon where for£3 a month you can join a community of people who understand the science that we're talking about and make cups of tea with nuclear fission, probably.
52:40On the Patreon for our bonus episode this week, we'll be talking about Fukushima. Japanese Chernobyl. Couldn't give a Fukushima. That's on the Patreon. But if not, we'll see you on Thursday for the next part in this harrowing tale goodbye goodbye
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Lads, just boil a kettle!
Chernobyl (Part 1/3)
The show for people who like history but don't care what actually happened.
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Chapters:
00:00 - Happy Birthday Chernobbers!
08:52 - The Blair Years
13:21 - Boil The Kettle Lads
18:02 - Half Life!
22:13 - RWMK
25:52 - Fuck It!
31:20 - BORON!
34:51 - Margin for Error
37:35 - Just The Tip
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