In short
Henry VIII’s worsening health after a horse fall, his extreme diet and “food bin” leg infection, the execution of Anne Boleyn, Jane Seymour’s marriage and death, and Henry’s later marriage to Anne of Cleves—ending with Thomas Cromwell’s arrest and execution.
Guest backgrounds
Horatio Gould (co-host/host of Finversus History segment) and Henry VIII historian/comedian-style co-commentators (including “Charlie” and “Emily” as recurring voices). They discuss medicine, Tudor politics, and diet with modern analogies.
Key claims
Tudor doctors keep Henry’s leg wound open and allow maggots; Henry eats ~5,000 calories/day and grows to a ~52-inch waist. Anne Boleyn is executed after coerced testimony; Jane Seymour dies from a fever after childbirth. Henry’s marriage to Anne of Cleves fails due to his impotence and her perceived “plainness” and smell. Cromwell is arrested for treason/heresy and executed in July 1540.
Notable examples
Hampton Court slaughtering 14,000 animals/year; Anne Boleyn’s beheading (commuted from burning); Margaret Pole’s 11-blow axe execution; Cromwell’s role in dissolving monasteries; Henry’s codpiece fashion and the “bin juice” smell during the Cleves meeting.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOHenry VIII's Wound and Weight Gain
0:31 to 0:55
Discussion of Henry VIII's injuries, obesity, and medieval medical practices.
“Well, when you're with Farmers, it's kind of inevitable.”
Henry VIII's Wound and Weight Gain
1:44 to 2:20
Discussion of Henry VIII's injuries, obesity, and medieval medical practices.
“And it's part three of the Henry VIII story.”
The Effects of Anne Boleyn and Catherine of Aragon
2:25 to 5:17
Analysis of Henry VIII's relationships and the political implications of his marriages.
“I don't even know what the logic is for this.”
Theories on Henry VIII's Eating Habits
5:18 to 7:22
Exploration of dietary habits of Henry VIII, including excessive meat consumption and health issues.
“So luckily, Catherine of Aragon dies in 1536.”
Henry VIII's Lifestyle and Obsession with Food
7:23 to 14:00
Detailed look at Henry VIII's later life, including his extravagant meals and decline in health.
“If it's a chromosomal thing, then you can't.”
The Downfall of Anne Boleyn
14:00 to 18:45
Learn about the plot against Anne Boleyn and her trial based on scandalous accusations.
“Catherine of Aragon finally dies in 1536, which means Cromwell can hatch a plan to execute Anne Boleyn.”
The Execution of Anne Boleyn
18:45 to 24:32
Discover the gruesome details of Anne Boleyn's execution and its significance.
“I mean, if you're going for a beheading, is it kind of you get more of your money's worth that it takes longer?”
Jane Seymour and the Tragedy of Henry VIII
24:32 to 28:00
Explore Jane Seymour's role as Henry's third wife and the tragic outcomes of their marriage.
“I don't know if she's trying to eat it like Tom Cruise or something.”
The Sad Vibe of Shopping
28:00 to 29:20
Discussing the unique characteristics and challenges of shop assistants.
“Much like train employees, ticket inspectors, you know, they're a different breed, really.”
Henry VIII's Instability Post-Seymour
29:20 to 31:00
Examining the political and personal instability in England after Jane Seymour's death.
“Anyway, so Jane Seymour dies, Henry starts to swell, and this just renews the constant instability that is in England in the 1530s.”
Show all 17 chapters
Cromwell's Flow State and Cod Pieces
31:00 to 32:40
Exploring Cromwell's rise and the introduction of cod pieces in Henry's wardrobe.
“So I don't know how eligible you'd say he is.”
The Codpiece: Symbol of Virility
32:40 to 35:21
Analyzing how the codpiece became a symbol of power and virility for Henry VIII.
“But this really looks like I'm a lecherous man on the bus.”
The Rise and Fall of the Codpiece
36:31 to 42:01
A discussion on the evolution of the codpiece in fashion during Henry VIII's reign.
“By the 1530s, he had popularised bejeweled codpieces.”
Henry VIII's Disappointment with Anne of Cleves
42:01 to 45:02
Explore Henry VIII's initial reaction and humorous commentary on his wedding to Anne of Cleves.
“Yeah, so this is Henry VIII waiting for Anne of Claves.”
The Hypocrisy and Politics of Marriage
45:03 to 47:52
Discuss the political implications of Henry's marriage and his hypocrisy regarding his own condition.
“reluctantly, Henry marries Anne on January 6th, the original January 6th, 1540.”
The Downfall of Thomas Cromwell
47:53 to 50:18
Detail the events leading to Thomas Cromwell's arrest and execution following the marriage debacle.
“They've called it Heaver Castle out of what the...”
A Bloody Legacy and the Next Marriage
50:19 to 53:20
Examine the aftermath of Cromwell's execution and Henry VIII's subsequent marriage to Catherine Howard.
“So for him to not even get any court proceedings, even a fake court, is kind of crazy.”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00I'm Glenn Washington, host of Snap Judgment, the award-winning storytelling podcast from KQED. Every week, Snap deals a new card, like the girl whose sister was a monkey, or the man who lived in the woods for 30 years, or even the woman who snuck her lover out of prison in a dog crate. Pick a card, any card. Tap to listen now to Snap Judgment from KQED on Spotify.
0:31At Farmers, our honesty is contagious. Wait, am I going to catch honesty? Well, when you're with Farmers, it's kind of inevitable. Well, how long does it take to... I lied to you when you asked if I knew what a deductible was. I don't know my dad's birthday. I thought umbrella policies were for rainstorms. Actual rainstorms. I have it, don't I? You don't just have honesty. You have Farmers. Bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum. Learn more at Farmers.com. Underwritten by Farmers Truck or Fire Insurance Exchanges or Affiliate. Products not available in every state. A burst pipe. A dead water heater. The AC calling it quits.
1:05Who do you call? HomeServe is an easy way to handle unexpected home repairs. With plans covering stuff basic homeowner's insurance usually won't. Instead of scrambling for a contractor, you make one call to get the repair process started. Join the millions of customers who trust HomeServe right now. Go to homeserve.com slash podcast for 50 % less your first year. That's homeserve.com slash podcast. Savings compared to renewal price void in Florida.
1:44Welcome back to Finversus History. I'm with Horatio Gould. And it's part three of the Henry VIII story. And Henry's getting fat. He's growing. He's growing at a frightening rate. You're sort of a reverse Henry VIII. We hope. We hope. Benjamin Button's Henry VIII. We hope that we're not currently in an anomaly, an otherwise fat story. Henry has fallen off his horse, which has absolutely knackered his leg. He's sort of got a line bike leg in the Tudor England. It's opened a wound, and Tudor doctors think that the wound needs to be kept open in order for it to not fuck it. I don't even know what the logic is for this.
2:30But this is why it's only even when this story die. Because doctors know less about medicine than if you did nothing at all, basically. They're making it actively worse. You bring someone in. Don't let it clot. Make sure you have the exact same cut on his other leg so it bounces out. Pour maggots into it. He did have maggots in his leg at all times, but we'll get to that. We're just sort of pre-maggot phase. This is the last bit where you can say maybe he was attractive. Well, live cultures are important in one's gut. Yes, not in the leg. I guess a live culture, if the culture is maggots, maggot culture.
3:03If your thigh is a food bin, you're not doing well. To recap, Henry has broken from Rome because of this strumpet and Boleyn, this uppity woman who keeps miscarrying. Is he breaking chairs yet? How do you mean? Under his weight. Not yet. Not yet. But the start to be done. We need a fat-o-meter. We do need like a swing-o-meter. Jeremy Vine watching the fat-o-meter. Where are we at with his fatness at the moment? So what year is this? By 1536, he's waisted about 37 inches. So he's probably overweight or thick-set rather than, quote, truly fat. Yes. Have you ever been truly fat? No. No. No, I've been bloated.
3:45I don't know if that really is. No, I find that very offensive. Yeah, I'm sorry. I find that incredibly demeaning. I'm trying to muscle in on your lived experience. You are minimising my experience, which is a maximal experience. Liver experience. So he was roughly, at this point, we think about 109 kilos, maybe 120. His waist is between 35 and 42 inches. Yes. So we're getting to the upper limits of the M &S range. What is it, Charlie? He's closer to the build of a man like Gordon Ramsay. Gordon Ramsay. Okay, fine. But yes, we're not... He's bigger than Beckham, smaller than Ramsay. to place his weight which I think we should do this episode we should weight place not just on the podcast I think just in everyday life we should weight place women we see in the street I met a girl last night can you weight place her who was this girl she was before Michelle McManus but after Scarlett Johansson right okay fine so he's fallen off a horse and his leg is opened it's just oozing yeah and Anne Boleyn has given birth to a girl on the 7th of September, 1533.
4:51That is useless. Put that straight in the bin. Straight in the bin. Straight in the bin. Yes. But yeah, the most Chinese this country ever is. Under Henry VIII. Henley VIII puts a girl in the bin. Catherine of Aragon, crucially, she's still knocking about. Yes. So he can't get rid of Anne Boleyn because if he does that, then there's probably going to be like, well, you've got to go back to Catherine because she's still knocking about. Yeah. But she's even more broken than fucking Anne Boleyn. Yeah. So luckily, Catherine of Aragon dies in 1536. In maybe, is this like a few months? This is sick.
5:27This is what Emily's reacting to. Sick. This is maybe a few months after the accident, something like that. And so now he can marry again. Do you think he has Prader-Willi syndrome? What, go on. It's a sort of an offshoot of Down syndrome, but you cannot stop eating. So he might have fallen off. Oh, like a Labrador. So I watched a documentary on Prada Willy and they have to be sort of kept in a home because if they're allowed out, you've lost your entire ability to stop eating. So I wonder when he fell off the horse, maybe that's what he got. Finn. Excuse me. Charlie. Charlie, you can't grow out of Prada Willy syndrome.
6:02Charlie. Why is it called something so demeaning? It's how it's got a very fashionable penis. But it was probably found by someone. I've got a Prada Willy. Charlie could not. Charlie. His eyes went like... Well, it's always good to get Charlie. I got him with something that wasn't poo. That's a highbrow Charlie joke, Prada Willie. He genuinely couldn't believe he has to do this for a living in that moment. What I will say, though, is that the photo we're looking at with the terrorist block over the eyes, that is a sort of maybe an eight, nine, ten-year-old Fin Taylor. Really? Well, no, because he looks about sort of five or six.
6:46Yeah. From the great stretching. Yeah. But that was, yeah, naked. The, the, the, yeah, no, it was bad. It was bad. I've been very, I've been very clear. Harvey Price has probably one syndrome. Does he? Which makes sense. That's why he's, he's alarmed. He's growing like our patron. Alarming. Alarming. Alarming. And he can't see where it's going to end. It's going to end in tears, I'm sure. Yes, it is going to end badly. So he can't stop eating. So basically, Henry VIII, potentially, Charlie, can you find out if you can, can you contract Prader-Willi syndrome through blunt force trauma? If it's a chromosomal thing, then you can't.
7:26I feel a bit more, it's nice we're discovering things. So in Henry VIII, we know the story so well, it's nice to be kind of delving into new territory and finding new questions. It is. But also, I feel like I know the story in a kind of tea towel way. You know, I didn't quite understand, particularly when we get to next episode, I didn't quite understand the grimness of the end. Right, yeah. And I will say now, just a soft trail next episode, it's Gaddafi-esque. Yes, very much so. In terms of how he ultimately shuffles off this mortal coil. So can you contract it from blunt source trauma? No, it's genetic.
8:02No, you can't. It's genetic, fine. Henry is eating 5 ,000 calories a day. Yes. Now, this, by the way, is what a sumo wrestler has for one meal. and they have two meals a day. I went to the sumo at the weekend. As I said, I got upgraded by a fan because - What, they thought you were a sumo wrestler? No. Oh, the must-eye is here. I was trying to get your autograph. The sumo Messi is in. The young prodigy whose knees went. No, it was a fan because that is the kind of event that I get upgraded at. It's never a business class on a Memoritz plane. it's the Greenwich Bouts of the London Southeast Sumo experience so you don't get to choose your fans but we don't but I did meet the Sumos afterwards and they were terrific anyway it's now more and more sounding like you have fraud bully syndrome you're going to meet celebrities no it was what I will say is I took my wife on a date night there well she took me there it was her idea but there is nothing better than watching two grass fed fat fucks slam into each other.
9:08The noise is extraordinary. The big slap, oh God. Sets me right, gets me going. It's a good spectator sport. Did you get the rules? It's quite simple rules. It is simple rules. It's sort of like a schoolboy game, but what I will say is that you'll, it's so viscerally gripping that I stood up. I was like cheering. I was like beer in the air at the end. Yeah, I guess M &A, it's like the punches and the cracks can be kind of horrible, but the satisfying fat slapping. It's kind of like, it feels safer and softer Also, the legs, the muscles on their legs is extraordinary. Yeah. Probably the most muscular legs I've ever seen.
9:45Yeah. And yet the top half is so fat. A suckling sumo wrestler would be absolutely extraordinary. So let's see what they're eating. So 5 ,000 calories for one meal. I know exactly what they eat because I researched this on the way home. They have a big stew that's got fish, beef, tofu, everything in it. So they wake up, they don't have breakfast because that slows their metabolism down. they then have 5 ,000 calories in a stew and then they'll have six pints of beer and have a nap. Really? Yeah. And they'll wake up, have another 5 ,000 calorie meal and then go to bed early. Because they're trying to gain fat and not on the organs, not visceral fat, extra bodily fat.
10:25Which sumo wrestler has lived the longest? Let's find out. Surely this is like, you burn bright. Uma Gatani Ai, who lived to 83. Okay. It's a blue zone. It's not that old though. 83 is pretty good. To be the oldest though. Of all sumo wrestlers. Doesn't seem that old. What's the average age, average lifespan of a sumo wrestler? Yeah. Now Henry VIII is eating 5 ,000 calories a day. 60 to 65, yeah, it's pretty low. 60 to 65. For Japan that is, that's pretty low. Very low. Anyway. I'm Glenn Washington, host of Snap Judgment, the award-winning storytelling podcast from KQED. Every week, Snap deals a new card.
11:07Like the girl whose sister was a monkey. Or the man who lived in the woods for 30 years. Or even the woman who snuck her lover out of prison in a dog crate. Pick a card. Any card. Tap to listen now to Snap Judgment from KQED on Spotify. At Farmers, our honesty is contagious. Wait, am I going to catch honesty? Well, when you're with farmers, it's kind of inevitable. Well, how long does it take to... I lied to you when you asked if I knew what a deductible was. I don't know my dad's birthday. I thought umbrella policies were for rainstorms. Actual rainstorms. I have it, don't I? You don't just have honesty.
11:50You have farmers. Bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum. Learn more at Farmers.com. Underwritten by Farmers Truck or Fire Insurance Exchanges or Affiliate. Products not available in every state. A burst pipe. A dead water heater. The AC calling it quits. Who do you call? HomeServe is an easy way to handle unexpected home repairs. With plans covering stuff basic homeowner's insurance usually won't. Instead of scrambling for a contractor, you make one call to get the repair process started. Join the millions of customers who trust HomeServe right now. Go to homeserve.com slash podcast for 50 % less your first year.
12:23That's homeserve.com slash podcast. Savings compared to renewal price void in Florida. So he's eating basically a Sumo's breakfast every day. Now, he's been eating this before the accident, but he's been doing a lot of exercise. Now his leg is full of maggots and it's a food bin. He can't do the same exercise. He's not getting his steps in. No. Firstly, he is convinced that vegetables are not only a bad for you, but a moral sin. So this is like if Clarkson was a toddler, basically. So he would be eating 80 % of his diet was meat. In the final years of his life, the kitchens at Hampton Court are slaughtering 14 ,000 large animals a year.
13:09He would be presented with a buffet of 15 heavy meat dishes, including spit-roasted beef, venison, veal, mutton, pork, boar, whole-roasted peacocks, roasted swans, herons. On a Friday, he went now to eat meat in Christian tradition, so he'd eat fish, but by fish, he meant whales. whales seals beavers um he then i would have 13 pints of ale a day is my dinkety um awful uh he then because in the 1540s uh britain and the caribbean are doing quite a lot of stuff so sugar comes in so he gets obsessed with like marzipan and like orange pies drenched in syrup wow um a dish full of snow which is like whipped cream and sugar and rose water but then so he there's no dental care so he's basically his teeth fall out which and he's eating tripe yeah so he's but his breath is like a fucking dog i can't imagine it's awful the amount of different notes you're being hit with yeah on the whiskey tasting wheel rose water and tripe that that is like uh air freshener after a shocking shit isn't it rose water and tripe anyway so we're getting slightly carried away but he is he's starting to really motor in his fatness He's been freed of the handbrake of mobility, and now he can just expand.
14:32It's territorial expansion. Yes, it's Laban's round. Catherine of Aragon finally dies in 1536, which means Cromwell can hatch a plan to execute Anne Boleyn. So what he does is he basically just confects this plot that she's been fucking her brother, and everyone, it seems, and then a musician called Mark Smeaton, is that right? He gets tortured and confesses that he did rail her and then also that maybe he saw her brother railing her as well. Anyway, she gets incest at this point, has connotations of witchcraft because it's not a very enlightened age. Right, whereas now... Well, in the future, I'm sure that will be the next thing.
15:20Love is love. That'll be the... Two heads are two heads. Six fingers or six fingers. That'll be the next letter in the acronym is incest. And so she's as a witch and then she's tried and her uncle gives the guilty verdict. That's awesome. Her uncle is amazing. Like watching the other Berlin girl. Yes. That's a real good uncle. Proper, proper uncle. Well, the opposite of creepy. Yeah. Sending to death. You fucking shied your brother. You should be fucking killed. You fucking perv. You don't want your uncle to be judging you sexually. No. The trial outlined these details of the affairs, describing her relationship with her brother as a perverse passion where a sister's tongue found her brother's open mouth and vice versa.
16:03Jesus Christ. Disgusting. Absolutely. Does this woman's sin know no end? But in the other Berlin girl that we're talking about on the Patreon, they do try and show the scene where they almost go for it but don't. Well, she tries it on with it. She tries it on. They try and make it sort of sexy. Yeah. A little bit. I mean, they're both quizzering and crying. but I didn't like the way she was undressing him. And I was like, if it's the whole reason that she was sleeping with her brother is not because she had the hots for him. Right. It's because, well, no, you may think so. Yeah. Well, yeah. Errol Maskell.
16:34Errol Maskell. You may think so. Her uncle was Errol Maskell. Yeah. Basically. Yeah. But it was because she, large part of the world marriageable age is 12. She wanted to get, um, have a, she wanted to have a, give birth to a son, but he didn't want it to be with someone else that Henry would be like, that doesn't look like my son. would have just looked like her, basically. It would have looked like her. It would have looked like two heads of her, basically. Yeah, would have looked like her twice. Yeah. Well, she'd had a miscarriage and didn't want to tell Henry VIII. So it was like, well, why didn't I fuck my brother?
17:01Which is all completely bollocks. But in the scene, I did think it was funny how they sort of tried to make it. I don't know how... She was like undressing him to begin with. And he's crying. Yeah, and I'm like, I feel like you should come in naked and maybe do it like the Jewish people or do it fully clothed. you don't need to you don't need to role play I think actually the longer the foreplay is with incest the more you want to back out I think you've got a cold plunge you've got to just thumb it in yeah I think so I think so if you're doing it where you feel like your life depends on it you're back to the corner you might get something out of it well you might as well enjoy it well you might as well you might as well I'm here now let's make the best of it alright pull my hair fuck it spit in my mouth alright it's my spit basically isn't it let's just spin each other's mouths pull my hair come on come on we might as well enjoy it we might as well we have to do it yeah I don't want to do it well I'm hard now so fuck it you know I didn't want to go if you go on holiday you didn't want to go on you're here already you might as well have a good time you're in a pub have a beer what do you mean you're not drinking you're here now fuck them on whether they actually get down to it or not is unknown they probably don't but you've got to be you can't be too careful with incest you've got to nip it in the bud yeah alright yeah So head off, just in case.
18:21Just cut a head off, just in case. So George, a brother, he's executed in like May 1536. Perf. And then, yeah, he's a perf, had to go. And then Anne, Anne is executed a couple of days later. And for this, what they do is Henry gets a guy in from France, a specialist executioner who's got basically like a French medieval samurai sword, it seems because normally the executions are done with axes and it's apparently very very blunt and the executions are drunk a lot of the time yeah and it can be quite quite a big slot take a while take a while yeah right a long time in the crease yeah exactly um hacking away singles you don't you don't want to do it in singles you really want someone to come in and hit 36 off the over really um he commuted her sentence from burning to beheading which is uh i guess that's mercy woke nonsense perhaps it's right so he's a feminist well you listen i think you have to say he's a feminist the amount of wives he has um the longest and most horrific beheading in english history is in 1541 margaret margaret counters of salisbury who required 11 blows of the axe because her inexperienced executioner missed his mark on the first swing and struck her shoulder, the 67-year-old count, 67-year-old woman, leaped from the block and had to be chased around the scaffold while the headsman repeatedly hacked her.
19:53My God. Benny Hill beheading. I mean, if you're going for a beheading, is it kind of you get more of your money's worth that it takes longer? Oh, it's a real spectator sport. Now I understand when people will go and watch it happen. Because it's like, well, if I can see them chasing her around. Yeah, it's a hard skill and you've got to really nail it under a huge amount of pressure. It's a real pressure pop. It's a penalty kick, really. So yeah, I mean, I guess, yeah, if you're watching, that's the kind of, you're getting your money's worth with 11 blows of the axe. Yeah, but a French guy comes in and then she kneels down, no, she's not blindfolded.
20:26She kneels down and then he just, with one blow of this massive sword, head off. Apparently, eyes are still blinking and her fucking mouth's still going. Still going. Even at the end, her head falls off and you're still fucking chirping away. Right. Going, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Bang. And the greatest villain in English history has been dealt with. Yes. In Wolf Hall, they show it, and I think it's quite historically accurate. Basically, so not only do they have the big sword, because he wanted to make it like a chivalric, like King Arthur sort of. Yeah. As opposed to an axe. Basically, what the guy did to make sure that her neck was as relaxed as possible, he went...
21:02Massage. He walked one way, whistled. she went like that. You're joking. Yeah. And then he steps and chops her head off the other way. What, he went look over there and then chopped her head off? Yeah. He went tapped on the shoulder and she went, what? Oh God, I absolutely hate falling for that. Yeah. I mean, that's actually quite insulting to do that right at the end. Yeah, that's right. The whole point is that you're giving her more of a kind of dignified death. Yeah, not go, what? Oh, look over there. Oh, fuck, you got... Or you go like, I got your nose and then you chop her nose off. Well, you just chop her nose off.
21:32Yeah.
21:35so Anne Boleyn has fallen and now a couple of days later Henry is free to marry Jane Seymour who is his third wife so what's Jane Seymour's vibe if Catherine Arrigan's quite a strong-willed like first wife sort of vibe Anne Boleyn is a sort of devious sexual terrorist Jane Seymour she's seen as the kind of soft pure a pure English virgin yeah lie back and think of England yeah she is gentle obedient conservative she's a patriot Jane Seymour's a patriot finally third time lucky oh sorry sorry I think she's a patriot a pure English virgin yeah yeah no greater patriot than an English virgin they marry in private what two weeks after the after Anne's beheaded 30th of May 1536 yeah it's a private ceremony no need to make a fuss yeah and they make it sort of private to try and avoid drawing attention to how it's kind of one in and one out at this point.
22:41Now, Seymour is Henry's favourite wife, in his words. I think because she lived the least at that time. Well, she did his work for him. Because he barely knew her. Son, death, perfect. Perfect. The perfect wife. Yeah. That is a trad wife. Yeah. Gives you a son, dies. So he ends up getting buried next to her, which is, I suppose, romantic. Now, obviously, he's still hankering for a baby boy that doesn't die after seven weeks. Is that too much to ask, ladies? One job. You've got one job. So in early 1537, Jane Seymour becomes pregnant, and she's convinced it's a boy because she is craving quail.
23:26Pregnancy cravings. Pregnancy cravings. In the Middle Ages. My wife was smashing quail for the second pregnancy. Yeah. She was pregnant with her son. Couldn't get enough quail. Whale, quail, pheasant. Peacocks, herons. She just ate off my plate. So he imported quail from Calais and Flanders in order to feed Jane Seymour. And on the 12th of October, she gives birth to a son. Finally, King Edward VI is born. Hampton Court Palace. I think he is quite a weak child. he I mean he won't live he won't live that much longer but he crucially he outlasts Henry which means finally he can die happy a dynastic triumph however there is a footnote to the story I suppose in that the birth was quite difficult and Jane falls ill with a fever then dies one in one out she dies two weeks later 29 years of age supposedly because of an infection from a retained placenta.
24:31You want to get rid of that, love? I reckon. Don't retain the placenta. Stop eating placentas. She's a hoarder. God. Two whores and a hoarder. The Henry VIII story at this point. So, yeah, she has a placenta. I don't know if she's trying to eat it like Tom Cruise or something. Anyway, Henry's actually devastated at this point because he's like, finally a family who's not broken. And then she dies. He's very unlucky, really. Very sad story. Another victim. Only another victim. Again, victim. Yeah. She's the only of Henry's wives to receive a queen's funeral. Right. Henry wears black in honour of Jane for three months.
25:11Damn. And it's during this widowhood that Henry, who is now 46, really begins to swell. So how are the maggots doing in his leg? Are they starting to proliferate? Charlie let's just check in with the food bin that is Henry VIII's leg at this point you ever had to deal with maggots in a food bin? yes oh my gosh that's a real dad job yeah oh my god so what they do is they would like cauterize it so they'd constantly be heating it with like hot irons so they felt that pus was good one of the humours? yeah you're getting rid of evil from the body so they just kept it infected Yeah, so it's just constantly pussing.
25:54Constantly grangonous, pussing. And it says that the saws generated a foul spelling discharge. Yeah. And so, but then they'd also put like nutmeg and fucking rosemary over the top of it. Right. So it's just awful. It's a horrible stew. Horrible stew. It's like a, what's that thing with the perpetual stew? It's like a perpetual stew. Yeah, it is a perpetual stew. It's a perpetual stew in your thigh. Origato in there. Yeah. You mean like those Jamaican pots, the crock pots. It's just like an infinite dish of bollocks. Yeah, but it's his leg. But it's in his leg, yeah. So, yeah, it's in the widowhood with the grief that he really starts to pile on the pounds.
26:34Quite soon he will be at an astonishing 52 inches waist. Which has come so far. That's got to be Giacomo stuff. Right, yeah. What is Giacomo, Charlie, can you find out what Giacomo's waist range is? Yeah. What is the smallest Giacomo does? Yeah, who is the kind of... Giacomo's not for you. yes who's the thinnest Giacomo guy Giacomo goes up to 64 inches wow Giacomo offers a highly inclusive 32 inches so that's me on a skinnier day I could do 32 64 maybe I should start shopping at Giacomo just at the bottom end Giacomo is not for you you walk into Giacomo and make everyone instantly feel very very sad you know have you been to Giacomo yes ask me where my parents used to take me age 12 to get my clothes where did your parents used to take you age 12 high and mighty high and mighty yeah I know high and mighty great branding that is what does it not fat and sad not fat and sad high and mighty they tried that and it didn't really work as well so they had a branding no we got the fat and sad catalogue through the door we said no thank you I want to go to high and mighty for my socks and my trousers right my vests for socks big feet big fat feet but what's the vibe in the shop like it's sad big game hunting sort of what the shop assistants are coming around I got one no it's a sad vibe in High and Mighty it is sad because when you're like yeah the shop assistants I suppose they're maybe fuller in figure than other shop assistants I say that I feel like shop assistants is kind of its own class of people, really.
28:23Much like train employees, ticket inspectors, you know, they're a different breed, really. Different race. Shop assistants. They are a different race. Shop assistants. Different species. They are. They should be treated as such. But no, I guess the real issue is when you're in a high and mighty and they get everything out and you go, I don't like any of these pieces, but I am confined to them because of my decisions and my Prada-Willi syndrome. so uh i guess i have to just wear that yeah um yes i guess there's a determinism to the clothes almost yes i had waistline determinism you know when you're too fat even for your red quicksilver hawaiian shirt yeah you know with the palm trees on it say goodbye to that i've had to say goodbye to that what moment did gavin plumb behind emma what's an inn now you've taken my hawaiian shirt you know that was my fun shirt now i've just got to wear of fucking beige Giacomo shit.
29:20Anyway, so Jane Seymour dies, Henry starts to swell, and this just renews the constant instability that is in England in the 1530s. Now, meanwhile, Cromwell, or Thomas Cromwell, he's in his, like, flow state. This is the montage. He's dissolving monasteries. It's all, like, quill stuff. Move on up. When you're down. Hey, bitch, burning a roof, chasing lungs. Ah! Spanking lungs.
29:54Cromwell's in a flow state. He's dissolving one of the trees. He's benefiting personally. I mean, he takes over hundreds of church lands, a hundred manors and estates. Now, this doesn't seem very Cromwellian, but he keeps exotic pets. Yeah, I did not know this about him. Like leopards and greyhounds, and he would gift them to the king. He is new money, though. Yes, he is. I suppose he is. but I'm trying to find a thread between this Cromwell and Oliver Cromwell it's hard to yeah you could there's a lot of similarities yeah smashing the monasteries and stuff anyway the court starts to die down because Henry's sad and he's just fat and he's got maggots in his leg and so Henry does not remarry for over two years which you know it's good to have a break you need to know yourself don't you before you enter into a relationship Yes, you can't just go from one relationship to another.
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30:46You need some time to be single. You need to work out who you are on your own before. Because otherwise you'll bring the baggage of the last relationship. Yes, and he's in danger of being termed a serial monogamist. Yeah, I'd hate that. Which I would not want him to have. He's also got an actual waist sight in his leg. Yes. So I don't know how eligible you'd say he is. Yes. However, Cromwell immediately starts trying to find him a new piece. but Henry is mourning you know his one true love he gave him a son blah blah blah but what Henry does right maybe try and make himself feel better about how fat he is and stinky and how his legs got maggots in it is he devotes himself to cod pieces and so perhaps it would be now worth doing a little side quest on the history of the cod piece he devotes himself to cod pieces yes he's a cod piece enthusiast so a cod piece began as a piece of fabric to conceal a gap in the men's hose.
31:43Okay. Whereas Henry begins to weaponise it as a symbol of virility and power and fertile. So did he bring that into the fashion world? What was it? So the codpiece fashion was... So now obviously, if you're being kind of Freudian, he's a man who's insecure about his fertility. Yeah. And so he is trying to have obscenely large codpieces to try and project. I mean, it's a bit on the nose though, isn't it? Your one is very opposite, I must just say. It's sort of brown and fleshy. I was complaining about my one. If you're only listening, we have been in costume the whole time and Horatio has really...
32:22I just got a tanned, curved knob just sticking out. I'd say that is quite offensive, actually. It's quite... And I complained to our researcher who got these costumes, but she insisted that this is a normal cockpit. Historically accurate. And I feel like there's normally some fabric around it that's meant to blend into the rest of your outfit. Well, you did ask for a small one. I did not ask for small. This is not small. It's the same size as yours. That's nice because that blends in. That's fat. But this really looks like I'm a lecherous man on the bus. Yeah, it's hard not to seem creepy. Especially wearing that hat.
32:53It's hard not to seem creepy. But this, my one just sort of looks like balls, I guess. What have you found, Charlie? People would hide oranges in their cod pieces and then playfully pull them out to give to ladies. Ah. So like boiled egg behind the ear kind of thing. Orange out of the cod piece. I had a question which was if obviously it's not good to have massive balls and a tiny knob right but if you have is there a limit to where even if your knob is so tiny if your balls are like the size of like the bath or like if you have like the world's biggest balls like the Indian guy we found in the Gandhi series yeah is there any way that it kind of goes full circle and actually becomes kind of sexy again yeah no I don't think so I don't think having balls the size of the bath is sexy.
33:39Well, in some cultures, maybe. Maybe, but not this one. Maybe it's a sign of virility. Is it? I mean, I guess it's a terrifying bust. You could probably put out a house fire with that bust. Yeah, and there's got to be a woman on earth who's like - Fucking fire truck just sitting on those balls just - There's got to be at least one woman who's just, you know, catching her eyes out the side going, fuck it. What, with the biggest fanny in the world? Oh my God, look at the size of those balls. Christ. starting or growing your own business can be intimidating and lonely at times your to-do list may feel endless with new tasks and lists can easily begin to overrun your life so finding the right tool that not only helps you out but simplifies everything as a built-in business partner can be a game changer for millions of businesses that tool is shopify shopify is the commerce platform behind millions of businesses around the world and 10 of all e-commerce in the U.S.
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35:10Start your business today with the industry's best business partner, Shopify, and start hearing. Sign up for your$1 per month trial today at shopify.com slash realm. Go to shopify.com slash realm. That's shopify.com slash realm. I'm Glenn Washington, host of Snap Judgment, the award-winning storytelling podcast from KQED. Every week, Snap deals a new card, like the girl whose sister was a monkey, or the man who lived in the woods for 30 years, or even the woman who snuck her lover out of prison in a dog crate. Pick a card, any card. Tap to listen now to Snap Judgment from KQED on Spotify.
36:01When it comes to my policy, Farmers gives it to me straight, so there's no surprises. It's your coverage. You should never be confused. You hear that? An insurance provider with a conscience. We're a choir, but yes, we have that too. Straightforward coverage you can literally understand. That's what you get when you have Farmers. Bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum. Learn more at Farmers.com. Underwritten by Farmers Truck or Fire Insurance Exchanges or Affiliate. Products not available in every state. Anyway, back to the codpiece. Back to the codpiece. By the 1530s, he had popularised bejeweled codpieces.
36:38Wow. I guess this is sort of male bejazzling. Yeah, maybe we should bring back the bejeweled codpiece. Yes. It feels there's something kind of more aspirational about the codpiece. It's not about the piece you've been given. It's about how you bejewel and customise the sort of... It's an expression of personality. You can express yourself. Yeah, but also... It's less deterministic of the size of your piece. But also, you know, we talk about the female gaze. Would it not be nice for the ladies to open the foreskin and find some jewels down there? They like shiny things. They love that shit, yeah.
37:08You know? Yeah, like... Croc gems. Like croc gems. They're called widgets, I believe. Croc widgets. Yeah. We could all have little Simpsons widgets underneath our foreskins. So anyway, the trend peaks in 1540 when Henry commissions oversized metal cod pieces for jousting and siege armour. At this point, his waistline is 52 inches. Yeah. now Elizabeth I would sort of fade away this trend and it would give way to a sort of new padded style that shifted the focus of fashion I guess it's because everyone finds their dad sort of embarrassing with a massive fake cock sorry that reminds me of my dad's fake knob that he used to wear around the house and I'm already embarrassed that my dad popularised the fake massive knobs can we just like tone it down it is a weird thing to walk around with a huge strap on Also that your dad's the one who came up with it.
38:01It's weird. But it'd be funny. I mean, fashion trends are circular, aren't they? It's cyclical. It could come back around. Big jeans, skinny jeans. Yeah. You know, no copies, codpiece. It's the same sort of cycles. It's been a while since the codpiece has been back. It has been a while. It is due a renaissance. Yeah. So by 1540, Cromwell has found, he thinks, Henry's next piece. This is my favourite of the wives, friend of the pod and of Cleves. Now, she is from a wealthy German family, and I think by this point, that German family is still Catholic, or they Protestant, I'm not sure. Cromwell finds some kind of...
38:44It must be Protestant if Cromwell's found her. Yeah, Cromwell finds basically a politically convenient, theologically convenient noblewoman in order... Yes, she is Catholic. And is this during the second, is this a German during the Second Reich? This, no, no, First Reich, please. This is the First Reich. Please, please. We're still in the First Reich. Yeah. We're nowhere near Bismarck, yeah. Yeah. Can we find out why Cromwell picked Anna Cleves even though she was Catholic? That does feel weird, the character. No, I think it's because Cromwell by this point is trying to calm things down with the papacy.
39:20And so he finds a German family that are still Catholic in order to try and smooth ties over. Because he's genuinely Protestant and believes a lot of these things, so it does seem... No, but Cromwell's actually just legalistic. He's more opportunist. I don't think he believes... I think he really believes it. No, because Anne's a reformer and he fucking gets rid of her. And he actually had often sparred with her about the Reformation. I don't think he is... How hardcore Protestant was Cromwell's actual beliefs? Yeah. It says Arden's support of Protestant Reformation. Yeah, I think he was. he was pretty involved in the Reformation.
39:52He was having secret meetings with a lot of the Protestant guys. But he picks Anne of Cleves to build a strong diplomatic alliance and prevent isolation from the Catholic powers of Europe. But build a strong diplomatic alliance with the Protestant German states. But she's Catholic. So I don't quite understand that. Is Cleves Catholic? We said yes, but yeah, he was definitely very Protestant. Because it's geopolitical. In 1539, England faces the threat of invasion from a unified alliance of Catholic France and Spain. Cromwell aims to counter this by allying with the Schmau... Schmalkaldic League, a powerful confederation of Protestant German princess.
40:26Although Anne's family was not Lutheran, they were politically aligned with the Protestant princes. So she was Protestant, basically. Fair enough. For all intents and purposes, she was Protestant. So Cromwell shows Henry this portrait that we're looking at now. She does look very nice. Yeah. Looks fine. Yeah, she looks gorge. And so Henry thinks, brilliant. Perth. Terrific. she'll do nicely Anne of Cleves arrives at Dover in December 1539 and Henry the prankster that he is basically decides to like sort of fake ambush her with his boys yes but I think he thinks he's much more attractive than he is so in his head he's still a young man so he sees this as quite a dashing romantic thing but I don't think being in disguise when you've got maggots in your legs gives you away somewhat it's not like going I'm here.
41:21It just doesn't really have the same sort of... Because about 10 minutes before, Anne would have gone, what the fuck is that smell? It absolutely stinks. Because you could smell Henry from three rooms away. Yeah. Because he was sort of, he was like rotting. Yeah. Basically. So he tries to intercept her at Rochester with his mates, but the meeting is a disaster because he storms her chamber with some disguised friends. And Anne, quite rightly... With his mates as well. Fears that she's going to be abducted. Right. Which is, I mean, that is... Fair play. I mean, fair enough.
41:53Henry immediately thinks, ah, fuck, she's not a laugh. So is it that scene in The Office where Ricky Gervais is going to meet the blind date? Yeah, so this is Henry VIII waiting for Anne of Claves. She says we're wearing a white chiffon scarf to help me spy. Yeah, he's coming. So, um... Oh, fuck. Huh? Huh? Huh? What? Emily the Eighth, Emily the Eighth meet Dan of Cleves. Quote, she is nothing so fair as she hath been reported. Calls her a, fat Flanders mare. This is all the while he's literally like dripping in. Oh my God. He's walking around like when you're carrying a fucking black bin liner filled with...
42:40Crawling with maggots. And it's just got like, you know the binging? As you're taking it to the bin, it's just dripping it through the kitchen. that's him just walking about and he's going oh fucking hell she's on the track Christ God you could have got me a fit one and he's seeping bin juice out of his leg I mean this is why I think Henry VIII is so English and so Clarkson the entitlement the toxic maleness of going fucking hell look at the state of your love while you've got maggots pouring out of your thigh on the morning of their wedding right because Cromwell insists that the alliance is too important right so they are going to get married Henry remarks that Anne had some, quote, very evil smells about her.
43:20From a man with maggots pouring out of his... Something stinks in here, and it's not me. Is that you? But yeah, it is the English mentality. The break from Rome Brexit is the same thing of just looking and saying, God, you guys are fucking weird. Everything's a bit shit here. That must be your fault. Yeah, exactly. You cunts did that. He finds her malodorous, repulsive, and thinks, well, she can't be a virgin because she stinks. Kind of goaded from Henry's prefer. Yeah. The blind hypocrisy of a man with a walking bin juice. No, you're too stinky to be a virgin. No, you can't be a virgin. You smell awful.
43:58Meanwhile, court attendants could smell Henry from three rooms away, and they had to keep moving him from palace to palace because attendants couldn't stop throwing up.
44:11Anyway. The cartoonishness on the noseness of Henry is also what's satisfying. There's so little to read between the lines. Even like he was scared about his own virility, he like fucking sellotaped a giant knob to it. Like there's no, that's probably why you like this story, there's no subtext, there's no like interpretation. It's very clearly down the line what's going on. Yeah, you don't need a fucking degree in psychoanalysis to work out what's going on. The man who invented giant fake knobs walking around going, yeah, I'm a bloke. He's quite insecure about his masculinity. Yeah. But also it's so funny to be seeping out of your leg with a giant fake knock and to be like, you're a munter.
44:48What the fuck? I can't have sex with you. And then the guy who got you the munter, you end up chopping his head off. Yeah. You're like, what the fuck do you think I was meant to do? Have sex with her? Kill him. Fucking hell, she's punching. Anyway, so, reluctantly, Henry marries Anne on January 6th, the original January 6th, 1540. The wedding night is not a success. With Henry confiding to Cromwell, quote, I liked her before not well, but now I like her much worse. I don't know why he's speaking like Borat, but this is probably because Henry was impotent. Now I like her much worse. It was probably his own smells, right?
45:28And he thought that was her smell. Fucking hell, love. Close your legs, love.
45:36Yes, he probably couldn't get it up by this point. Couldn't consummate the marriage. and so blames her plain face rather than his maggot leg. I mean, it's awesome. It's so English. It's so Clarkson. The exceptionalism, the blind hypocrisy. Rules that apply to you and no one else. Yeah. I mean, it really does all start here, I think. You don't really have this sense of Englishness before Henry VIII. No. Because it's just sort of vaguely medieval Europe. It's not distinctive for Europeans, really. But also I think this is something that you don't actually, when you learn about Henry VIII, you don't learn about, you don't dig into why he is so English.
46:19You just think... How his characteristics relate to ours now. Yeah, you don't dig into that. What you dig into is the kind of cartoonish nature of his wives. And also I think he is the sort of archetype of an evil megalomaniac king that then America uses to distance itself from that order. It goes like he's the tyrannical king. he's the despot king so we want to make a sort of democracy but do you think Henry VIII's reputation is of evil for me it's slightly more complicated than that he doesn't seem to be like this completely agreed evil guy it's more he's just he's more sillier than that almost I don't know yeah he's an African dictator it would make more sense if all his quotes were in the same voice that we used for Idi Amin anyway so Henry makes it through four months of marriage saying that they've never fucked because she's awful and plain and smells he argues that the marriage is invalid because he'd entered it without consent so he got raped he was well they didn't actually have sex right but every time she tried he was like no means no yeah Anne basically cooperates and Anne immediately agrees to the annulment I wonder why yeah which means that she gets a generous settlement which means she gets Heaver Castle.
47:37I've been there with my kids. It's a great day out. Heaver Castle. I hear it's amazing. It's not far from where we record, but an hour away in Kent. And so there's, yeah, she gets Heaver Castle and their marriage is an old on the 12th of July. Not Beaver Castle. Not Beaver Castle, Charlie. Heaver. They've reintroduced Beavers. They've called it Heaver Castle out of what the... They call it Heaver Castle out of what the attendants would do when they were around Henry's... so the marriage is an old in 1540 we haven't placed anything should we place 1540? Yes so I guess this is I guess it's after the invention of the codpiece and it's before the invention of the plug-in dildo.
48:19Mains you know the mains dildo? I'm very aware of the mains dildo so this is it can't be battery powered. Battery powered doesn't touch the sides for me in my house. It's like one of those soakers you use on a car. Pressure washer pressure washer. It's a lawn trimmer. Yeah. You know, these are things that you cannot have battery powered. It's just too. Charlie, when is that invented? The 1880s. It's a fantastic time. The late 19th century. No, no plug in. No, no, no. It's not the 1880s because there's no electrical mains in the 1880s. 1960s. 60s. The Hitachi magic wand. Our female researcher is nodding.
48:56Yes. She's having a religious experience back there. Got it. Yeah. Of course it was in Japan. Yeah. and it plugs directly into the mains. That's proper. How can we harness, or only the Japanese would think of that, how can we harness the power of the tumble dryer to make my wife bust? Yeah. So yes, that's when 1540 is. Now, the divorce from Anne of Cleves is a massive political embarrassment for Henry VIII. And so he's backed into a corner. Once again, can we stop cornering this man? Yeah. Right? He's got a lot on. Yeah. And so Cromwell, as the instigator of the marriage, is then basically forced to pay for it.
49:39And so Cromwell's enemies frame him as a man who had misled the team. Because he's a bit of a prick. He's not a people person. He's not a fun guy. And everyone hates him because he's not from money. He's not like a nobleman of any sort. And he's just come and he's now the most powerful. So they can't wait for his downfall, basically. So in June 1540, at a Privy Council meeting, Cromwell is arrested and charged with treason and heresy. He's imprisoned in the Tower of London, and he's then condemned without formal court proceedings. And he really doesn't take it well. He writes letters going, I cry for mercy, mercy, mercy.
50:16I mean, he's a legal guy. He's a legislator as well. So for him to not even get any court proceedings, even a fake court, is kind of crazy. But I guess this is where Henry's life is sort of quickening up everything. he's been through all this stuff before, so everything now is just hurried. Right, done, done. Head off. Head off next. Henry will execute 72 ,000 people on his orders. How many? 72 ,000. So he's like Stalin, basically. Yeah, but most of this is after the accident. So by this point, it really is a bit of a bloodbath. So Cromwell is executed on the 28th of July, 1540, and as we were saying, it's kind of the opposite of Anne Boleyn, in that the executioner is pissed and had got, basically, I think, some of his enemies had got the executioner drunk the night before.
51:04But even now, it's barbaric what he did to Anne Boleyn, but the transition, it's now getting even more ridiculous. And now you can look back on Anne Boleyn, it's like, God, that was a much classier time when he was just lobbing his wife's head off with a sword. Single stroke, yeah. And now it takes... Everything's become... It takes half an hour before his head was finally severed. So it's like a sitcom episode. Yeah, it's an episode of Scrubs. Yeah. I mean, it's half. We've been talking. How long have we been talking for? About 50 minutes, something like that? Yeah. I mean, basically half this episode, Cromwell's on a block going, oh, oh, oh, please.
51:44Oh, God, please. Half an hour, head off. Wait, so was it an experienced teenager? Yeah, it was a teenager, but apparently. Hi, oh, hi there. So it's like a guy who works like a view cinema with fucking acne. Yeah. I only know how to operate the slushy machine. I'm not sure I'm qualified for that. Yeah. And fucking half, I mean, he earned his money, fair play. Half an hour of chopping a head off. Yeah, I guess so. I guess you put it like that. Anyway, the same day - Is the executioner apologising or are they just like - Well, as he's, I'm so sorry about this. Is he a teenager? So he's probably quite - He's hung over.
52:19He's probably trying not to throw up. Is he kind of grumbling? he's probably just sweating and he's just like raining axes down I mean you've got to be getting in one stroke if that's your job on the same day that Cromwell's executed Henry marries his fifth wife the 17 year old Catherine Howard can I hear her oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh
52:51And as I said, it is Gaddafi-esque stuff. We'll deal with his final two wives and we'll sum up on why he is probably the greatest king we've ever had. That's a run of the Patreon for£3 a month. You get instant access to series and bonus episodes and you know where it is. Sign up. Sign up. I don't need to give you any more reasons. Fuck it. Fuck it. That's all from us here. We'll see you next time for the final part in our epic Henry VIII series. Goodbye. Goodbye. Thank you.
53:51Thank you.
54:21Thank you.
55:07I'm Glenn Washington, host of Snap Judgment, the award-winning storytelling podcast from KQED. Every week, Snap deals a new card, like the girl whose sister was a monkey or the man who lived in the woods for 30 years or even the woman who snuck her lover out of prison in a dog crate. Pick a card, any card. Tap to listen now to Snap Judgment from KQED on Spotify.
55:38When it comes to my policy, Farmers gives it to me straight, so there's no surprises. It's your coverage. You should never be confused. You hear that? An insurance provider with a conscience. We're a choir, but yes, we have that too. Straightforward coverage you can literally understand. That's what you get when you have farmers. Bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum. Learn more at Farmers.com. Underwritten by Farmers Truck or Fire Insurance Exchanges or Affiliate. Products not available in every state. A burst pipe. A dead water heater. The AC calling it quits. Who do you call? HomeServe is an easy way to handle unexpected home repairs.
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From the publisher
Henry's back, and he's fallen off his lime bike.
Henry VIII (Part Three)
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Chapters:
00:00 - Lime Bike Leg
03:35 - Prada Willy
06:38 - A Suckling Sumo Wrestler
07:26 - Dog Breath
11:35 - Cut It Off
16:34 - He’s A Feminist
20:43 - She’s A Hoarder
23:10 - Horrible Stew
27:31 - Quill Stuff
29:16 - The Cod Piece Enthusiast
36:28 - She’s Not A Laugh
39:41 - No Means No
43:52 - An Episode Of Scrubs
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