In short
A comedic, critical history-of-psychology episode that sets up Freud’s role and traces earlier “mind” theories: humors/temperaments, physiognomy and phrenology, hypnosis/“animal magnetism,” hysteria, and then Freud’s core concepts (unconscious motivations, psychosexual development, and the “talking cure”).
Guests
Horatio Gould (host/guest voice) and Charlie (co-host/participant). They banter throughout, using examples and jokes to argue that psychology increasingly “medicalised” everyday behavior.
Key claims
Before psychology, humors (blood, phlegm, yellow bile, black bile) supposedly explained personality for centuries. 19th-century physiognomy/phrenology tried to read intelligence/character (and even race hierarchy) from faces and skulls, later used to justify slavery and colonialism. Freud is presented as historically pivotal for inventing/popularizing the unconscious, defense mechanisms, dream analysis, and psychosexual stages; his theories are mocked as largely “sexual desire” explanations. Freud’s method is framed as listening to patients lying down and using free association.
Notable examples
Rorschach test joke; “Duchenne smile” (eyebrows stay angry in fake smiles); Mesmer’s “animal magnetism”; Anna O (“chimney sweeping”); iceberg model of id/ego/superego; oral phase (0–18 months) and “oral fixation.”
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOThe Rorschach Test and Interpretation
0:21 to 0:38
Exploration of the Rorschach test and the discussion around its interpretations.
“Over 4 million businesses have skipped the line with Stamps.com.”
The Rorschach Test and Interpretation
1:15 to 3:30
Exploration of the Rorschach test and the discussion around its interpretations.
“It's a way of trying to put meaning onto the subconscious.”
Freud and the History of Psychology
3:30 to 5:15
Delve into the historical context of psychology and Freud's impact.
“This is an academic look at the history of head cases, whack jobs, nutters, fruit loops and tards.”
The Four Humors and Their Impact on Personality
5:15 to 7:50
Discussion about the four humors and their historical significance in psychology.
“So we're going to be, this series is sort of, we'll be mainly dealing with Freud and then going in towards all the way up to the present day.”
Modern Views on Personality and Therapy
7:50 to 9:50
How modern interpretations of psychology shape our understanding of personality and therapy.
“So before that, there was humours, which now that was about 1400 years.”
The Balance of Humors
14:00 to 14:48
Exploring the concept of bodily humors and their historical context.
“That's the whole point, is that it's literally just like...”
The Balance of Humors
14:50 to 16:54
Exploring the concept of bodily humors and their historical context.
“Guys, look, you've heard it from us before.”
Medieval Medical Practices
17:54 to 19:10
Discussing the medical interventions of the medieval period and their absurdity.
“The only one that's made up is black bile.”
Understanding Physiognomy
19:10 to 20:25
An overview of physiognomy and its implications on personality judgments.
“and the background chatter is Irish, I'm not having as nice a time as in David Lloyd's.”
The Intersection of Looks and Ideology
20:25 to 22:41
Examining how physiognomy relates to societal standards and ideologies.
Show all 26 chapters
Historical Misuse of Science
22:41 to 24:38
Analyzing how science has been misappropriated for racial discrimination.
“It'll be because they look like they're slaves.”
Facial Expressions and Perception
24:38 to 28:00
Discussing Duchenne's work on smiles and the meaning behind facial expressions.
“So, but anyway, phrenology and physiognomy, they're separate terms, but as we say, closely connected during the 19th century.”
The First Douching Experience
28:00 to 30:04
A humorous recount of a mishap during a holiday involving anal douching.
“You know what, first time I ever douched.”
Exploring Enemas and Hysteria
30:04 to 31:00
Discussing the historical context of enemas and women's hysteria in psychology.
“So hypnosis comes in in the sort of 19th century.”
Freud's Influence on Psychology
31:00 to 32:59
An introduction to Sigmund Freud's background and theories on mental illness.
“A guy called Mesmer, who is where we get the word mesmerizing from, he was the first person to coin the phrase animal magnetism, which is this idea that living bodies contain a magnetic fluid that affects health.”
Victorian Repression and Sexuality
32:59 to 35:04
The impact of Victorian societal norms on Freud's theories of repression.
“So obviously everyone's issues are repressed sexuality because everyone is so horny and yet you have to wear the, you know, you have to dress up like a fucking French fancy to leave the house.”
Freud's Techniques in Therapy
35:04 to 36:39
Freud's innovative approach to therapy, including free association.
“Everything must have been so literal pre-Freud.”
A Troubling Therapy Experience
36:39 to 38:25
A revealing anecdote about a therapy session gone wrong involving unexpected nudity.
Freud's Controversial Views
42:06 to 43:25
Explore Freud's provocative ideas on early trauma and its impact on life.
“Starting or growing your own business can be intimidating and lonely at times.”
Anna O and the Birth of Psychoanalysis
44:19 to 46:38
Understand Anna O's significance in forming Freud's talking cure.
“It's like early traumas completely define your life basically.”
Stages of Childhood Development
46:38 to 50:06
Delve into Freud's stages of childhood development and their implications.
“A moral standard that you're trying to reach.”
The Oedipus and Electra Complex
50:06 to 55:42
Learn about Freud's complex theories surrounding family dynamics and sexuality.
“They're fucking horny for shitting themselves.”
Freud's Popularity and Legacy
55:42 to 56:00
Examine how Freud's ideas gained traction in Vienna and their lasting impact.
The Roots of Resentment and Patriarchy
56:00 to 58:34
Explore how early feelings of envy and desire shape identity.
“So it's like they feel less and this shapes their desires and their identity, I guess.”
Freud's Rise and the Formation of Psychoanalysis
58:34 to 1:03:15
Understand Freud's influence and the establishment of psychology as a science.
“I think the stuff he says is much more interesting.”
The Disagreement Between Freud and Jung
1:03:15 to 1:06:58
Discuss the ideological split between Freud and Jung regarding human motivation.
“This podcast, we've passed the anal stage.”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00Push your limits, train with precision, see the results. At Equinox, that's high-performance loving. Everything you need to lock in and unlock your potential at Equinox. Start today at equinox.com. Still waiting in line? Again? That's time you'll never get back. Save time and money with Stamps.com. Over 4 million businesses have skipped the line with Stamps.com. Join them to save up to 90 % off carrier rates from your computer or phone right now. Print postage for certified mail, registered mail, and packages in seconds. Then schedule a pickup right from your home or office. For a limited time, go to stamps.com and use code podcast for a free welcome gift.
0:43Taxes and fees apply. I'm with Washington. This is Snap Judgment from KQED. When everything is falling apart, what do you do? Hurricane Helene shut everything down. No roads, no cars, no way through But his daughter was getting married And somehow, someway He was going to walk her down that aisle All systems down
1:08Fin:A new Snap Judgment miniseries from KQED Tap to listen now Yeah, I just think our relationship has not been in a good place for the last couple of years And I don't know if it's my fault or her fault But I just don't know what the cause of the issue is Well what I propose we do is something called a Rorschach test, which is some ambiguous inkblots and you just tell me what you say that you see. Okay that could be good, yeah. It's a way of trying to put meaning onto the subconscious. You know what, at this point I'll try anything. Okay so just say what you see. That's ridiculous. Just say what you see.
1:52That's a cock and balls.
1:54Fin:It's very interesting that you say that. Well, I didn't - No, it's very interesting. That's - Make a note of that. Okay, that's very - I don't know how you could interpret that as anything else. That's not - Okay. That was just a drawing - As I said, there's no wrong answers here. But - Just trying to tap into the unconscious mind. That was just a - I don't want you thinking that means I'm like - Okay, so the second one. Is this a joke? What do you see? I think I'm gay, but that's not what - Is that what you think? No, no, that's not what I, that's what's written there. So you think it's some writing?
2:24Well, no, of course it's writing. Couldn't be anything. No, that's not me saying that I think. No, no, I'm not saying I think I'm gay. That was written on the.
2:31Fin:I don't know how you got that, but that's fine. It's whatever you see, there are no wrong answers. I don't remember it being like this. Last one. And as before, just say what you see. Okay, go on. Try and, it's all about your subconscious, okay? Well, yeah, I thought it was, but.
2:55Fin:What do you see? Well, you've written me a big pedo batty man gay style. You sure that's everything it says? At the bottom it says brackets in a Jamaican accent. Okay, so if you want me to help you, all together, what do you see?
3:15Me a big pedo batty man gay style.
3:18Fin:Fascinating. Absolutely fascinating. I don't know how that's fascinating. I don't know how you have your license to be a trained psychologist. You should be struck off. This is ridiculous. Well, I think you're gay and you owe me£2 ,000. Next.
3:43Fin:Welcome back to Vin vs History. Joining me is Horatio Gould. Bloody hell, Mum looks fit. Today, it's the history of psychology. Sigmund Freud. This is an academic look at the history of head cases, whack jobs, nutters, fruit loops and tards. It's to give them the long road to now, to our fans. It's the long road to everyone who's listening. Surely everyone's got something. Surely. I don't. I'm robust. I don't do therapy. No, thank you. Don't get inside my head cage. I definitely think therapy, I view therapy as being quite nosy. I think it's a weak pursuit. Well, I think it's none of my business what's going on in there.
4:33None of my business. And it's none of yours either.
4:35Fin:Why am I paying you? Could we stop looking around my attic? You should be paying me to know my secrets. Yeah. It's the fucking door well in a car. Oh, yeah. Don't look in there. Just don't look down. Don't look down. I do not look down. That's none of your fucking business. I don't look down in my car. And that's none of your business. What's going on there? No, no. Daddy, what's in? Don't look down. Don't look down. Genuinely, there's mold growing on the back of my car on the floor. Yeah. So ignore that and just keep looking at the road. No, I'm not. Yes, I am dealing with it by not acknowledging it.
5:04Fin:I'm driving forward. Always go forward. Always forward. Don't look back. Yes, there's a new pandemic growing in the back of my car, but that's not my problem. Always forward. Always forward. I don't have a reverse gear. I just go round and round and round. Yeah. So we're going to be, this series is sort of, we'll be mainly dealing with Freud and then going in towards all the way up to the present day. I mean, it is, it's fascinating because now obviously everyone's got something. We've medicalised everyone's personality to fuck. No one can just be a bit weird or a bit annoying. It kind of colours everything now.
5:38Everything is like therapy taught. It's viewed through the lens of psychology. It's like a whole shift in how we view every single motivation how people act it's completely changed our world basically no one can just be a dick
5:50Fin:they have to have fucking or a heretic that we can burn at the stake like that's all gone because now it's like maybe they you know just following you know you know the orders in their head yeah it's not their fault you can't like as a mob go up to someone with a big noses house and then skew them on a pitchfork and scream like that's all gone now I think you still can do that to be fair I think there's still quite a lot of people who like doing that maybe the pitch but it's more frowned upon by polite society as opposed to encouraged it used to be polite society polite society used to mean he's got a fucking massive nose are you coming with us to pitch what the guy the big nose let's get him alive and you'd say no and you'd go what are you not polite you're not joining in with the mainstream so Freud is knocking about in the it's the end of the 19th century as I've said many times my favourite period I mean it's got a lot of fruity stuff and to be honest it does sort of lead to The fruitiest of fruity times in the 19th century.
6:46And they're knocking about at the same time, Freud and Hitler. They're in the same city. They're a couple of streets over from each other.
6:52Fin:It's very opposite that the father of psychology is born in Austria. Or he's born in what's now the Czech Republic, I think. It was the Austrian Empire. And all these founders of psychology, they're all Austrian and German because they're the weirdest people there are. it's the country of as we've said fritzel baumgartner schwarzenegger uh mozart you know these are hitler these are all fruit loops and people have gone why are we so strange why is this country yeah so different to others and so they start looking at home school kid germany is the home school kid of the world and they come meet do you guys not do that it's austria austria is the home school kid of the world absolutely 100 yeah do you not stamp on dry cornflakes in the morning No.
7:35Fin:We get out and go to school and put our clothes on. So before Freud, let's just do a quick sweep through history. Because it's very, very recent that anyone's actually thought that what's going on in your head might mean anything or given it any importance. So the word psychology comes from the two Greek words psych, meaning mind, and logos, meaning reason. So before that, there was humours, which now that was about 1400 years. yeah it's interesting so the greeks came up hippocrates what's it hippocrates came up with the humors and then they thought well that's solved that's fine for a thousand four hundred years think about how much change is happening in psychology every year it seems to be there's a new disorder there's a new way of viewing things the humors held for about yeah well over a millennia much as greek plumbing has held to this day they were like we'll just poo in a hole in the ground wipe her ass with the vase and that'll be fine i did quite like the humors though so the The four humours are blood, this is bodily fluids, phlegm, yellow bile, and black bile.
8:35And basically your personality traits meant you had one too much of the other.
8:39Fin:Yeah, it's like an Overton window. You want to be just in the middle of yellow, black. You want to be a centrist. Yes, you do want to be a centrist. You want to nickleg that your humours, basically. Yes, exactly. But if you have too much of one equality, then it will affect your character. So if you were sanguine, which meant you were too bloody, that would mean you're sociable, energetic, cheerful and confident. Now which one do you think Charlie is out of these four? Let's go through the rest of them. Then you've got choleric, which is too much yellow bile. Ambitious, irritable, quick-tempered and intense.
9:11Fin:That's an interesting mix. Yeah, I wouldn't say that's Charlie. I wouldn't say that. Melancholic, too much black bile. Analytical, sensitive, serious and sad. Maybe the... I don't know if any of these are Charlie. I am analytical and sad. I don't think so I don't think you have an analytical bone in your body I don't think you're an analytical at all I think you are somehow sad but you have no way to analyse it why? sort of like a why do I feel like this? like a pig in a cage yeah there's a sadness there but there's no real profound understanding of what it is but you don't know what sadness is because you're so thick so it's like I feel unhappy yeah what is that?
9:46Fin:am I horny or hungry? am I horny or hungry? or am I in a cage? why am I unhappy? all this phlegmatic to phlegmy which means you're calm slow to react steady and unemotional. Now when they said phlegm do they mean the modern use of the word phlegm? Is it still the same? It's weird how the word phlegm has changed. Phlegm really has changed. Phlegm has meant calm and steady and kind of cool head to mucus that you hoik up off the bow of the ship. Yeah. I don't know why the other phlegm... Phlegmatic. He's very phlegmatic. Yeah, is it because you're expelling the bile? So let's just go back to the qualities.
10:19Fin:Go back to them. So I think Charlie is definitely sanguine. Sociable, energetic, cheerful, confident. confident i think that's he's definitely the blood one for sure he's not quick tempered uh or irritable no so he's not cholera he's like a he's like a golden retriever yeah he's got no he's got no yellow bile in him yeah um i get angry at home though i get angry in the in the privacy of my own home do you do what are you like when you're in your own car do you just like shouting sometimes like smacking the wheel screaming the car fuck's sake charlie i feel like i feel as a kind of form of therapy i just go sit in a car charlie that's brilliant therapy is it take it from me yeah that's all the therapy a man needs lock the car scream open the car go back inside maybe maybe as a man who doesn't drive maybe i'm missing out on a huge stress this is why because i'm cycling i would like to see a cyclist as aggressive to cars as cars are to cyclists no this is why people think you're gay right it's because you don't drive so you have a straight release you don't have to you don't have the time where you can sit in the car and everyone else has got out and that's your special man time that's where you process your feelings whereas now my special man time is walking down the street right so that or whatever i don't know so my release is walking down the street going yeah that is quite good it's straight down the street going I mean I've seen you do that and I think you wonder why people ask you if you're gay or not he's not helping the allegations when he's like hi I'm trying to relax I do think I do think a form of therapy would be going gay for a bit or like just looking gay for a bit would be you know do you know what's an unbelievable form of therapy go on I think the truth is it's probably not the right thing to say but at time you have Down syndrome is unbelievable if you live I've seen a lot of clips about this sort of thing about retard maxing going full retard is like Have you seen this retard maxing thing where now finance bros are saying you should start retard maxing because what this means is that you don't think about, you don't overthink things, you don't contemplate risk, you just do, which is what successful entrepreneurs do.
12:27Fin:So there's something to it. There is, but the line they're drawing is that all successful entrepreneurs have Down syndrome, which I don't think, I think that's a bit of a leap. Well, there's a film by Lars von Trier called The Three Idiots where these three guys have decided just basically, the whole film is just them pretending to be retarded. Right. And as this kind of like social experiment or therapy. But I do genuinely feel there's something that really, in the privacy of my own home, going full retard is like, I feel so much, there's such a state of calm. In your own home, if you're going full, you're at the school gates, there's a mum you don't know and I'm just hugging her.
13:01Fin:Hello. Just giving her a big hug, see what happens. It genuinely, it clears me out. Because it's just none of the worries. I think it would give me more problems. You've got bigger problems to fry. Like it feels like it just, it takes all of your, it blurs all of your problems. Yes. It takes everything out of focus. So the four humours were, this lasted into the sort of medieval period really. And temperaments were used as a sort of medical system for mood, behaviour, illnesses. They would say if you were like depressed or panicky or angry, they'd say, well, you've got too much of one humour. Is it like a star sign thing or can you change?
13:40Are you like, I'm black bile? No, no, I think it's more like vibe.
13:44Fin:I know, I'm black bile. Can you change? No, I think it's just your personality. I think it's personality. I don't think it's mood. I don't think you're saying I'm having a yellow bile day. Yeah. I think it's your... I think it is more like that. I'm a Pisces. I'm a black bile. It's a constantly shifting thing, right? That's the whole point, is that it's literally just like... Oh, so you're trying to always get them in balance. Yeah, yeah. But surely you have a natural setting, a default, because this is... Remember, this is being... I don't think you're naturally disappointed. But this is being used at people.
14:10Fin:This is a way of describing people who what we would now see as having learning difficulties or, you know. But it's not learning difficulties. It's like someone who's angry. It's someone who's a bit, you know. But it encompasses all of them. Someone who's confused. It encompasses all of them. Because otherwise that means if you've got someone who what we'd now say has Down syndrome, but in the medieval period, they've been like, okay, well, this guy still hasn't sorted out his overdosing yellow bile. Well, this guy's just got unbelievable amounts of sanguine. Yeah. This guy's so much blood in him.
14:42Fin:He's so sanguine. He's so happy. He needs some more black bile. Yeah, exactly. Or does he? This episode of Inverse History is brought to you by Surfshark. Guys, look, you've heard it from us before. Yeah. No homo. No homo. I love Surfshark. Yeah, that's fair enough. He said it. He said no homo. No homo, I'm gay. No homo, I want to go down on Surfshark. Who is Mr. Surfshark? I don't know. I'd like to meet him. I'd love to shake his hand. I love to see his tight little trousers around his thighs. If only I could see it, but he's too well protected. Why? He's got a padlock over his arse. How come?
15:17Fin:Because he's Mr. Surfshark. And what does that mean? He doesn't let anyone within an inch of his trousers. He's got a chastity belt. If you like. So this is an internet chastity belt. Because public Wi-Fi is dangerous. They're like the public toilets of the digital world. Ooh. Go in there. You think you know what you're going in for. You don't know what you're leaving with. Yeah. I went in for a piss. Hepatitis. I've got AIDS. that's a bad that's a bad deal that's a bad deal the exchange rate is bad i went in for a pp and i came out with full-blown aids and that's because i went to a public toilet in shepherd's bush yeah and they said it's a bar now well you've not cleaned it up properly did you go into the aids toilet well that's my yeah that's to be fair it said men women disabled and aids i misread that and i went into the aids one that's fair enough yeah it could happen to the best of us but more often happens but if surf shark had been running those public toilets that one would have been locked yes because surf shark once your device connects to the internet all the information is encrypted basically you need to be a medieval king about with his daughter about your your internet right yes chassis bell yeah don't go out after fucking 7pm i want seven men queuing auditioning to have sex with her i want you to have a real tough time at taking a shit because you've got a steel pants welded to your to your bottom half and that is surf shark there is a risk-free 30 day money-back guarantee if you use the code fvh sing it with me foxtrot vagina hotel we run the foxtrot vagina hotel and you get four extra months of surf shark don't let these online threats catch you off guard push your limits train with precision see the results at equinox that's high performance loving iconic spaces that inspire personal training backed by real data unlimited group fitness classes from yoga and pilates to strength and conditioning elevate your post-performance ritual with saunas steam rooms cold plunges and more everything you need to lock in and unlock your potential at equinox start today at equinox.com
17:24hey i'm running out to drop off a stack of letters and packages Need anything shipped while I'm gone? Save the gas. Stamps.com lets you print postage and schedule pickups right from your desk. Sync your contacts into the address book, get detailed accounting insights, and get notified the moment your certified mail is delivered. All from my desk? All from your desk. Join the 4 million businesses using Stamps.com right now with code podcast and get your free welcome gift. Stamps.com code podcast. Taxes and fees apply. Three of them are actual things. The only one that's made up is black bile. Yes.
17:57because there's yellow biles in there, but I think they think they might have just misunderstood blood clots. Blood clad. Blood clad.
18:03Fin:So, yeah, if you're black bile, what are they again? You like black bile, analytical, sensitive, serious, sad. The sensitive, sad, Jamaican... Blood clad. Blood clad. Blood clad. That was kind of the medieval... And sort of the medical interventions they do, like it's all herbs and vomiting and rosemary thyme like making a fuck what's that put a lemon up your ass all that stuffing yourself like a chicken and fucking having a bath um leeches all of that bloodletting oh yeah because that so that's why you did the leeches right to balance you out yes so yeah charlie would be leeched charlie would be constantly so quickly yeah because you've clearly got one of these you got way too much but also saunas are a thing they to try and get out, smoke you out.
18:51Fin:But I imagine those saunas weren't as nice as saunas now. I feel like it could feel like... How long have the saunas been around? It's a sure finish saunas. How long's that tradition? How long's that been a thing? But this feels... The medieval sweat house, I imagine, doesn't have the same... These were Irish. Irish sweat houses. I do think if I'm in a sauna and the background chatter is Irish, I'm not having as nice a time as in David Lloyd's. What does that background chatter sound like? You know the video of the Irish family trying to get a bat out of their kitchen. Teddy, Teddy, would you catch him?
19:23Fin:Catch the bat! Teddy! That one. I imagine if I'm in an Irish sauna, that's going on, and I'm being like, I'm hot and I'm hearing this. I'm not relaxing. I want to go into the cold plunge of English Protestant repression. Teddy, catch him! Would you catch the bat? Anyway, so, yeah, we get to... So between the 14th and 17th centuries, people started to sort of think, is this mind thing really yeah these humors is this what's going on but these are long periods at this point it's like 300 years where they're like maybe the mind means something and that's it maybe that's the most progress they made um so in we get to and listen uh a huge phrenology fans make sure you're sitting down um we get to uh physiognomy okay which is another uh studio sciences i think it's a strong word it's a science it's a science okay leave politics out of this it's a science all right um physiognomy is uh the science of interpreting a person's intelligence by looking at their physical appearance particularly how fucked their faces um i mean i've had there's been a lot of physiognomy in the comments as soon as i took my you're a physiognom marvel yeah you take your glasses off my iq went from 140 to 70 they're also they're also interpreting your sexuality through lack of yeah that's interesting yeah yeah so there's a lot going on there is a lot um so it's comparing human faces to animals to imply certain behaviors so if someone looks like a fox they're cunning you know uh women are cats men are dogs yeah yeah yeah uh you know there's something there have you seen a lot hunter eyes and prey eyes get hunter and prey eyes sorry what's charlie found john pork charlie's just charlie's googled man who looks like a pig uh how many of them are real men charlie that's what i want john pork is John Pork John Pork is an AI influencer John Pork who identifies as a pig man he likes good vibes and he's from Italy, he's from Palermo now you don't want to be called John Pork in Italy they'll tell you it's slimy yeah exactly do hunter eyes and prey eyes this is what's going on TikTok so this is basically saying that women are more attracted to men with there's certain building of the eyes that are because they look like hunters and there's people who have like prey eyes they look like a fucking cuda or antelope right i mean okay um so what have you got you've got hunter i've probably got hunter eyes but maybe two hunter two hunter that i can't see well you can see there's a lot of physiognomy what how do you say physiognomy it weirdly because of the the rise of like looks maxing people are getting really obsessed with what's looks maxing so it's like it's pretty big now with with young guys at the it's coming to young guys basically uh if you want to full fully realize your potential you've got to like do a lot of plastic surgery to look like the ultimate giga chad right but it's more like jaw surgery okay and you know basically it's kind of come out of incel ideology which is like the chads get everything yes but you can basically now oh i've seen yeah so there's a lot about it's like chin maxing and stuff crazy so uh physiognomy became deeply tied to racial science because it provides justification for slavery and colonialism after the fact.
22:44Fin:People go, why are these people slaves? It'll be because they look like they're slaves. That's easy for me to process. Because they've got a hat with a slave on it. Yeah, and they're in chains. So yeah, of course they're a slave. So this is obviously when we get to the phrenological science of when they categorised other races as lower on the evolutionary scale. So this wasn't just head size. This was facial features. Yeah, it's complicated. It is a complex science. This is interdisciplinary. Physionomy and phrenology. There's a lot going on. Jaw structure, lip thickness. School the thought. Nose shape.
23:18Fin:You know, this is what you would say. I am a doctor. Deeply contested within the field. Yeah, I'm a doctor of phrenology, and my specialism is in jaw structure. You know, I've written a serious paper on underbites amongst sub-Saharan Africans, for example. I mean, you must think if you have no jaw or no chin, that must mean something, right? Well, I judge people who have no chin. I don't know what... Cowardly, right? Yeah, I guess. I guess. Because it looks like they've got just a big... Yeah, they're always going... You can't be leading... Yeah. They look like a lady who's been shown a penis in the walk.
23:48If you can't fold towels with your chin, you can't be leading about... You can't be doing a Braveheart speech.
23:54Fin:That's true. You're right. Freedom. Fuck off. Yeah, I guess you're... Yeah. What other facial features do you judge people on? Well, you do laugh at... I can't say it. Physionomy. Physionomy. Physionomy. But I guess we do all do it. Of course. We're all physiognomists. We are all amateur physiognomists. In people's faces, you do make personality judgments. So this is when you get into evolutionary biology, which is where they say that that's because it all takes us back to the savannah. And it's all saying that this particular type of face... I know it's hot. Yeah, it makes me fucking hot, that face.
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24:32Fin:But this particular type of face tells my nervous system something about a threat level or something. You know. You're a fucking rat. Yeah. So, but anyway, phrenology and physiognomy, they're separate terms, but as we say, closely connected during the 19th century. They've sort of become interchangeable. You know, beauty standards apparently change over time. So like back in the day. Well, like, could you make people fancy pig people if everybody did it? I think the pig nose could come into fashion. What, you mean people are going to get nose drops the other way? Yeah, I can see that like, strange things have happened.
25:11I wouldn't want to stick, if everyone was getting a pig nose and like having pig nose wives.
25:16Fin:Would that mean that Eskimo kisses are two people going, like truffling at each other's face? If that was the style, if all of the like, all the perfume ads, they all had like pig noses. How much of it do we actually feel? If Charlie XCX got a pig nose, I feel it would probably catch on. Yeah, you know, you're right. If someone says it serves cunt to get a pig nose, then... Look at that pig nose. You're serving cunt today. Are you serving cunt today? What's the specials? Serving porky cunt. Now, Nazi scientists... Never have been two words that I'd rather see together. Nazi scientists, they go together like, I don't know...
25:56Fin:Fish and chips. Fish and chips. Nazis and science. They utilise physiognomy to define the Aryan race in sort of physical boundaries. So they measure noses, skulls, skin colour, create a hierarchy. Obviously, they label Jews and Roma people as inferior. They're doing this through science, though. Okay? It's objective, to be fair. It's an objective science. Let's go past that unconscious bias, and let's just go to the numbers. It's not what I think. It's what your face is telling me. It's expected goals. It's the underlying stats. Yeah. It's data. It's hard data. You might think this, but if we dig into the actual numbers.
26:31Fin:If we dig into the size of your jaw, we will see a link in your IQ. So we then, I mean, there's a guy called Duchenne who is a, he's sort of focused on muscular action and like facial expressions. He's early 19th century. He's French. But his main thing is saying, trying to work out a genuine smile from a fake smile. Yes. Like a small talk smile. Yes. And the main thing he worked out is that your eyebrows stay angry when you're fake smiling. Yeah. I mean, is that science? I don't know. And then a genuine smile, you're going like this. Yeah. But when you're fake smiling, you go. Yeah. A guy who realized that eyebrows mean stuff.
27:13Fin:And he's a scientist. I mean, I guess all this stuff is open, isn't it? Ninth century. No one's been an eyebrow doctor. But if I need to look evil, if you look up, you need to bring your head up before your eyes. I'm going to try it. Gary Oldman told me I didn't chat to him but he told me bring your head up before your eyes yeah so you look down and then you bring up yeah how do you look good? bring your eyes up before your head yeah if you want to look nice you go no because then you're doing this if you want to look non-threatening you go cross-eyed if you're bringing your eyes up before your head then you're doing this which looks like you're frowning at someone yeah remember you're not on camera
27:56Fin:but do show the duchan smile that's that's he gave his name to a smile which is a true expression of joy i mean again yeah but everything's up for grabs i know it's like you give your name to anything at this day or now just smiling with your eyebrows is the duchan smile not an anal douche charlie so he's pioneering work and you gape sorry that's the duchan smile is when you gaping after being douched. You know what, first time I ever douched. Isn't that it though? Yeah, go on. First time I ever douched, I didn't understand. The first time I ever douched. My first douche. My first douche. I've never said that sentence ever.
28:32Fin:Ever. I'll douch you. I sit in my car, alone. I can douch you. Sorry? I'm not asking to be douched. Carry on your story. I didn't understand how it worked and just literally shat all over the floor. I was in Oslo. In Norway, on a kind of sexy weekend, but I just shat. On a sexy weekend? Pooed everywhere. Yeah, me and my girlfriend, I was going away, so we went on like a sexy weekend, and I shot on the floor, and it kind of spoiled the vibe, spoiled the mood. Seriously. Why were you anal douching on a sexual weekend? To explore my bum. To explore. And was it... In Norway, did you have to get as far away from...
29:05We're going to Norway so that I can explore my bum. Did you see any museums? Did you go to the monk museum? No, he went up the fjords.
29:14Fin:The glaciers are melting. His office is like the scream. we went to the pub and walked in the snow and then I douched in the toilet right but how did it ruin the vibe did she find out about the shuttle I don't know it's just not very like was she there when you packed your douche yeah yeah so it was like we're gonna go to Norway to explore well yeah can you pack some spare pants as well can you not just pack loads of different douches have you ever douched no I've never douched would you like to well I've cleaned my arse that doesn't count but that's different what do you mean what's the difference Yeah, I've wiped my ass.
29:48Fin:I've not douched over the floor in Norway. Is it an enema? But you don't give yourself an enema. It's like a backstreet enema. What's an enema? Enema is a professional ass cleanse. I love a man who's given himself an enema nearly every day of his life, not knowing what enema is. An enema is a... Oh, bum squirty time. Oh, right, right. That's why I never called it that. A yummy bum bum. I thought it was my holiday bum douche. Yeah, you can go... What's an enema? So apparently an old agent of mine went to uh thailand on like some kind of juice cleanse holiday uh and she got like several enemas repeatedly and she said that uh what if you get and there's like a tube you can watch videos where you see your like your guts going through tube or whatever your what's in your bowels and it's proper cleaning out basically if you eat um meat and fish any amount of meat and fish there's worms in you yes you've just got worms in you so enemas to get it out yeah but And then as soon as you eat meat again, those come straight back.
30:46Come back. But they're harmless worms.
30:47Fin:It's not like bum worms. It's just, hey? What are they doing? Sort of truffling around. Snuffling about. Anyway, let's get to... So hypnosis comes in in the sort of 19th century. A guy called Mesmer, who is where we get the word mesmerizing from, he was the first person to coin the phrase animal magnetism, which is this idea that living bodies contain a magnetic fluid that affects health. so he used to treat people by like waving his hands over them like a fucking nonce magician but that's where we get the what would that do I don't know I think it was just but this is the we did an episode on hysteria and hysteria was what they called anything where they it wasn't like a physical illness it was like someone's clapped someone's mental they call it hysteria a woman was screaming and then you invented a dildo just to shut her off a woman was horny let's wank her off and then she's fine she's hysterical but that also It's very funny that female sexuality, until the 1920s, was grouped in the same way as schizophrenia and Down syndrome.
31:51Fin:It was the same thing. Why is she so irritable and angry? And she's got Down syndrome. She's got Down syndrome. She just needs a wank. No, no, no, it can't be that. It can't be that. So I think let's get to Freud, who is the sort of father of psychology. He is born, as we said, in the Czech Republic, then the Austrian Empire. He grows up in Vienna. He marries Martha Benes. He has six children. He becomes quite quickly a sort of doctor and specializing in the nascent science of neurology. And he becomes famous ultimately for insisting that sexual desire and childhood development shape your personality and are the root cause of every mental illness.
32:34Well, as in George MacFrey, he's by far the most important psychologist of all time, but then all of his theories are sort of thrown out the window. Sort of everything he said was bollocks, but he's by far the most important ever.
32:45Fin:You have to remember that, yeah, all his theories... He's a goat and everything he said was nonsense. Yeah, yeah, yeah. All his theories come down to, yeah, you're fucking horny. That's the problem. You have to remember that Freud is around in the Victorian era where no one is allowed to be horny. Yes. So obviously everyone's issues are repressed sexuality because everyone is so horny and yet you have to wear the, you know, you have to dress up like a fucking French fancy to leave the house. Yeah. You've got rough, you've got a hat, you've got several undercoats, petticoats, you know, no one's going commando in the Victorian period.
33:16Fin:And everyone's just gagging for it, but you do not, under any circumstances in polite society, mention that you may want to or at any point have sex. So he's like, well, obviously everyone's just desperate to fuck. And that's why everyone's mad. The madness of Austrians is probably very Freudian, right? Because they're quite an ordered society until they're not. Yeah. Until they're too ordered, you might say. They're overly ordered. But again, he's walking around Austria going, why is this place so fucking weird? Why is everyone so fucking... Why are people so mental? Why are people jumping from the moon?
33:49Fin:What are you jumping from? Why are you jumping from space? Just have a wank, Felix. Why is he the Terminator? Why has he built a basement and fucking his daughter in it? Did we talk about it? Is Baumgartner super right wing? He was. He is dead. Yeah, was he super right wing? Yeah, we talked about it in the space, actually. He's a conservative space... He stood over the earth and just went, nah, you've got to close the borders. It was hilarious. Yeah, he was very right wing. But then what does an Austrian left wing person look like? I don't want to meet them. You don't want to meet them. I don't want to meet them because they'll be fucking mad.
34:22Fin:Yeah, there we will. What else is going on in their head? Yeah. Basically, all the concepts that we now, like Freud is probably more responsible for like language than, as in he's giving us more words than I can, I think anyone. We just started it all off. Yeah. Even thinking about it in that way. It's completely paradigm shift. The whole idea of the unconscious is Freud. He's like, you don't know why you're doing that. Which is so, it defines how, like, being pre-Freud, just the way we talk about everything would be so different. So sincere. Because not having the unconscious to fall back on would be a fucking nightmare.
34:56Fin:Yeah, it would be a nightmare. Why did you do that? I guess I wanted to. I guess I really wanted to. I don't think I did, but I did it, so I wanted to. Everything must have been so literal pre-Freud. defense mechanisms, dream analysis, psychosexual development. So his early clinical works, as I've said, involves women who had hysteria, which means they were either sort of annoying, horny, annoying and horny. They weren't... Loud. They were loud. Their stories didn't end. They hadn't done the washing that day. They weren't putting out. Big nose. Couldn't drive. The list goes on. I mean, yeah, I haven't got enough time.
35:38Fin:Yeah. His main core ideas in his early works, and bear in mind, he's like the only guy. He's the first guy who thinks, why don't I just sit and talk to this nutter? Yes. And they're not even nutters. They're just people who are a bit sad or whiny or horny. Before Freud, everyone had been rubbing hands on them. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They'd been like trying to wank them off with a non-wanky hammer. It's trial and error though. You've got to try that stuff. Well, he's the first guy, and he's the first person who says i we should have a conversation but i shouldn't be facing you because then you're going to open up more if you're lying down on the bed right here you're going to open up more and he comes up with this idea of does the posnan he does the posnan to them the posnan's actually when they do that they're actually letting the away fans being like oh we can open up now we're actually really sad at the goal you've scored do you know what you're allowing me to express my sadness and that's very nice um but yeah so he comes up with this technique of free association which is you just let them talk and in letting them talk they will reveal their unconscious I mean that's true it is true like that's the great there's people who just can't help but feel silences and it's just that's when the real magic I'm very good at holding silence yeah very good very good I do think it's a big mistake to want to feel silences that's where you say the mad shit what what's that supposed to mean I think you're needy that's what I'm drawing from that psychoanalysis couldn't not feel the silence we've got to remember this is an audio form have I told you my worst therapy experience I'd love to know your worst therapy experience basically oh my god yeah this is I think this is the first episode of Boys Go Wild you produced this is kind of the beginning of realising Charlie wasn't who we thought he was yeah remember when he was just a booker on 5th internet and he was just a quite a charming sweet guy such a charming sweet guy yeah I think we're a producer of Boys Gone Wild and I was worried I was like maybe we want I wanted someone a bit mental to be the producer and then this is what he told us in the first episode such a competent competent professional man I thought in the first couple of months basically I had a therapist called Lilia she was lovely she was from Russia we were together for a while and together no yeah together as a therapist as a partner don't say it like that though yeah well it felt like that sometimes yeah is this before or after your anal douche in Norway just a couple years after a couple years after post anal douche in Norway post anal douche it makes sense you've done that you've shot yourself in Norway and you're going I need to see someone right yeah um and then she was all weird she was being weird with me on a on a therapy call I normally do it in person but this this time I had to do it on zoom and she started the call by being like did you um did you notice that I was being a bit off with you last session like did you notice that I was a bit drawn out and cold I was like no no not at all why did you not did you not no I was just trying to chat to her and then she told me let me chat to you I was trying to you know pour my heart out and then she told me that throughout the session i'd had my balls out and she could just and i was talking about how like self-aware i'm too self-aware and and then i just got my my nuts out so you hadn't you didn't know why you had to be on zoom yeah but she was like well i can't she called a zoom meeting and then no no no yeah no you had the nuts out in zoom or in real life yeah and then the next one is on zoom he's like why is it on zoom he's like well because you have your balls out the entire time wait wait what are you what are you wearing just like really loose shorts and no pants well just my dad's pants well that's the sun going on there i mean freud would have a fucking field day you're wearing your dad's massive pants the great thing about charlie you can't fill your dad's pants lad what a great great game for us to play right is uh the lottery of when is charlie wearing his own pants very rarely very rarely he seems to operate on some kind of community pant share yeah so were you wearing like fucking basketball shorts huge pants i love i like big pants though yeah i prefer them yeah what kind of stuff were you saying to her with your cockables out i feel i just i'm too um i don't know i just feel like too self-aware i don't really know what i'm doing i feel like my mom doesn't really bad quite like isn't really that proud of like some of the stuff that i'm working on and then she didn't say anything for the whole session i think she was just a bit shocked she should have said something she said that afterwards it was partly just to warn me that if that happened in public then it's like it's like a crime so she do you think for a second she thought you were doing i don't think i was sticking on there like that nobody does then why is she talking so seriously about it because i got my balls out on her so but you didn't get your balls like you accidentally had them but they were out i think she might have thought that you were trying to like get off No, no, no.
40:15Fin:We don't know if he was referred to her through another mental health. I got dumped by my last one, Tim. Well, no wonder. Because I kept hugging him.
40:28Yeah. Really? Yeah. Too much physical contact, apparently. Really? I needed more standoffish, so I got like a Russian lady. This is genuinely what happened. Wait, wait. So you didn't leave that person? No, no.
40:39Fin:They reassigned me. and what I and what I want to know is who's what I want to know is who's they I think this will unlock a lot about Charlie are you being referred as part of some other care it's called help they're called help right and the lady's called Amanda and she just called me up and said we're going to switch over is the CIA getting involved at this point I supported the move yeah but I had to leave Lillia recently we recovered from the ball thing did you and you really don't think she thought you were getting off to it I don't think that's how I would do that did you ever see her in across.
41:11I think you're fucking weirdo. You've just been switched from someone because you kept hugging him and then you're having a thing and then you're talking about it and you got, what do you think about that? And you're wearing a dad's pants. No, it was only my balls. It wasn't my, like, it would be the whole thing. I think if that's just like a kind of, I'm a sick. I don't know. I think part you might think this is a sick fuck who kind of gets off with the fact that my cotton balls are out because it's already quite a horny thing to be therapized by a woman. I think my reaction made it clear that I was, I was fucking mortified the thing is my whole day i've never seen you mortified i was really upset the thing is
41:42Fin:balls falling out of shorts is just a it's a hazard yeah and i'm sure freud would say tripping as a sometimes sometimes for old men it is a trip themselves imagine dying because you tripped over on your own balls and you had done but i mean freud would probably say well this is the great male you know if that happens when you're like in the right childhood stage he would say, well, then that's why you're a fucking sex pest. Starting or growing your own business can be intimidating and lonely at times. Your to-do list may feel endless with new tasks, and lists can easily begin to overrun your life.
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44:16Fin:Stamps.com code podcast. Taxes and fees apply. He would attribute stuff like that. It's like early traumas completely define your life basically. So let's get back to the case of Anna O who was a patient that got her vag out while she was talking to no. Anna O so she's like the ground zero of modern psychology from the patient perspective so she's like a seminal patient so freud pioneers the talking cure to her um she describes her sessions as chimney sweeping i guess he's rooting around up there um she wasn't treated directly by freud but she was crucial to his development because now her issue what was her issue she what was her problem she was hysterical which again might mean that she was horny or she was sad she was fucking She's fucking mad.
45:04Fin:And Freud just let her speak. And again, this is not an era where women are allowed to speak freely. Yeah, so the stuff they must be saying is mental because you've never really tried it out. Freud's like, fucking hell. If you don't say anything, you let them talk for three minutes. They say the same thing over and over again. He's the first man to listen to a woman ever for more than three minutes. That's Freud's historical figure comes from the fact that he was the first bloke to listen to a woman for more than five minutes. And then women are like, this guy's a genius. He listens to me. This is your dad.
45:35Fin:This is my dad. This is my dad. This is my dad. This is my dad. This is my dad. This is my dad meeting your girlfriend's mom. And your mom was ready to leave her life to go and live with my dad. Because my dad's a Freudian guy. Yeah. So the core ideas of Freud is that all human behavior is motivated, but most of the motivations are unconscious. Is he the first person to coin the ego, the superego and the id? Yeah, that's his. That's his thing. That's like, we still say that today. So the ego, that's all, I mean, that's what's, the super ego and id take or leave it. That's frankincense and myrrh.
46:08But ego, that gets used all the time.
46:10Fin:The id is the unconscious, sexual and aggressive, like, caveman. Charlie's got a massive id, instinct. Ego is like, the reality of like, okay, no, no, ego is the thing that structures it, you're right. And then super ego is like, what should I, what should I do? So superego is like, I should do this because... Superego is a standard that you're trying to hit, like a moral reality that you're trying to... A moral standard that you're trying to reach. And then instinct is the base level. And then you try and distinguish between the two. Yeah. So, but he coins this, and he says that he paints it like an iceberg where the id is completely submerged, and then a bit of the ego and a bit of the superego are over the top.
46:59Fin:So you could see people's ego and the superego, but they would not be aware of their id necessarily. But he also says that he defines childhood development in these phases. So he says the first phase is the oral phase. And this is zero to 18 months. And this is that babies explore the world with their mouth. You're always chewing on a spoon. Honking on a tip for the first year and a half of your mouth, for a year and a half of your life. so and pleasure is through the mouth babies explore the world through their mouths right put everything in their mouth uh if you successfully pass the stage of um uh weaning if there's no uh trauma attached to you stopping breastfeeding then you will avoid having a lifelong oral fixation right so that would an oral fixation could result in like obesity because you love eating food or like that kind of thing so um and freud smoke or having a sarcastic personality which is both of us to be fair why is that oral fixation the sarcastic i don't know what what freud i mean this is a lot of freud is like you take yeah okay then i don't know how sarcastic it's quite funny the idea of the sarcastic breastfeeder yeah the adult man who still breastfeeds go yeah right like, mommy.
48:20Fin:That's a fake. Yeah, the sarcastic man who still sucks his thumb. Yeah, all right. In opposite day. Mommy. Interesting tidbit about Freud though is he smoked 20 cigars a day and that's what killed him. Yeah, so obviously he still wanted it. No, I'm fine.
48:41Fin:Constantly trying to stimulate the mouth. So yeah, smoking, you know, I guess compulsive dick sucking. Yeah, if you're compulsive. Michael Douglas. Yeah, compulsive. Loves Catherine Z. Jones' poem so much he gets mouth cancer. That's an oral fixation. There but for the grace of God go I. The next stage in childhood development is the - No, this is the Charlie stage. This is Charlie never got out of this stage. It's the anal stage. Now, because when you're between one and three, the main thing that you resolve in that stage as a child is potty training. It's the idea of getting Gapu out of your bum into a toilet.
49:22Fin:Obviously, the id, the desire, the raw desire, Freud says, is just to shit yourself and feel the relief of having the shit go everywhere. Yeah, he does it focus of pleasure shifts, so he views it as like, that's like a real pleasurable thing. Well, in a way it is. Yeah, I guess so. It's the relief. Just stop being weird, Freud. It's odd. Again, he's saying this in an era where no one talks about anything. How did you start like this? But how's this the start of Freud? He's Austrian. This could only have happened in Austria in the early 20th century. That's what's amazing about Freud. What makes him such a phenomenon historically is that you'd feel like you'd build and get weirder and weirder and end up with Freud.
50:00You wouldn't think that you'd start immediately saying like, yeah, two-year-old shit because they fucking love it. They fucking love it.
50:06Fin:They're fucking horny for shitting themselves. What? And that's why you're fat. How's that where we start? You're fat because you didn't shit yourself enough as a kid. Sigmund. what the fuck mate we're trying to we're trying to have tea at the cricket I mean it's very funny to imagine him talking to anyone in this era in this point they're all going to like the opera in Vienna and he's like you know what I thought it was about today save it who's your mate yeah can my mate come he's a bit weird yeah when you meet your new friend's boyfriend I go out for a cigarette oh yeah yes because I bet you love your mum's tits you sick fuck and everyone's like mate Siggy it's like the girl's trying to introduce her new boyfriend to the group yeah do you like it yeah he's yeah no he's nice are you anal retentive what happened so the potty training the anal stage of childhood development yeah so uh the id wants to shit it so just get this podcast in are we in there uh we'll get to that i i believe we're in the uh genital stage of the podcast but now uh the uh anal stage you what the id wants to just shit and feel the relief of shitting the uh yeah the super ego knows that has a value moral value holds the moral body of shit should go in toilets that's my principles because otherwise society i'm a man i'm a man of principles a man of honor yeah the ego is the reality of i've had an indian last night and i'm nowhere near a toilet i'm closer to a bush than i'm a toilet so my course of action but it's not ideal not ideal it's reality but the id doesn't give a fuck the is the id is now please poo poo now now now that's the voice of the ears it's also the voice that charlie hears every day in his head now charlie doesn't have a super ego no he's an id and an ego i want to poo poo now so the ego says poo poo now okay then i guess that's done completely resolved most people go poo poo now and then the other thing goes way or poo poo wait wait for toilet and then the ego goes uh okay let's let's try and compromise between the two Charlie, poop on the floor.
52:05My girlfriend's in the other room. Poop on the floor.
52:06Fin:We're in Norway. Poop on the floor now. Yeah. Right. So the success of whether you are toilet trained is, so for example, if you're too harsh on potty training, it could become an anal fixation where you're too concerned with cleanliness and hygiene. So he would say that OCD can be nurtured out of a parent who is too harsh with potty training. Just let them poo. well there's another flip side is that you're not harsh enough and you let your kid wear your own pants and then he's just having a being therapized with his balls out and he's shitting in norway with his girlfriend so you know there's two sides to the coin right um so in cycling or analytic thoughts or more in freud's thought the act of withholding and releasing feces is symbolically linked to holding on to or giving just holding on so retention so um so like the The sexual fetish of like holding onto shit.
53:06Fin:Then we get onto the phallic stage, which is when a child is between four and six, they start to become aware that they have distinct sexual organs that are different from their opposite sex. And so they then - This is when the Oedipus or Electra complex starts to form, which is where - Oedipum. Not the Oedipum complex. That's where the - So a boy would desire their mother sexually, but in terms through the terms of a childhood like latent unconscious sexuality unconsciously is like yeah why is this old man fucking my my bird when he's looking at his dad basically you're looking at a four year old and in their head they're thinking what the fuck's this guy fucking my girl you're a back off mate that's my fucking piece we've been together for four years I've been sucking on her boobs who the fuck are you who the fuck you think you are yeah no you can't buy her a drink fuck off why are you back down little toddler you are right and then and then he so he sees the father's arrival and he resolves the conflict by identifying with the father's traits and becoming like becoming more like the father wait so is what he says is the the way to not want to fuck your mom is you become like your dad basically no it's a successful resolution of the oedipal complex right is that you inevitably have to be your dad no is that yes you so it shapes your adult identity and you you model yourself of your dad but you have no latent sexual desire so if you uh throw out the idea of being your dad does that mean is an unresolved eatable complex yeah basically means you're horny for your mom yeah but do you like impersonate your dad like like to initiate titty sucking you know no no you're not trying to fuck your mom by by impersonating your It's unconscious.
54:54It's unconscious. It's more, it's to be honest, it's more like symbolic.
54:58Fin:It's personality forming. Yeah. Yeah. You're not, you're not, you're not trying to get, you're not, you're not like leaning on the kitchen counter. So you're right, you're not a toddler wearing your dad's suits, trying to suck your mum's. Oh, you're looking nice today. The electric complex is just the inverse, whereas women and men, but I think it's slightly more tenuous that one. then you get to the genital stage which is the final stage which is where it's like adolescence and sexual desire should shift towards age appropriate partners and it's about separating from your parents successful resolution leads to healthy adult relationships basically so any of these stages trauma or unsuccessful resolution will lead to some kind of personality defect in his head or maybe a condition he also has a thing called penis envy which is his idea all women right all women yeah just women yeah the idea that when girls realise they don't have a penis so maybe like age three or four they realise they are distinct and they hate it they're green with envy they're livid and they develop feelings of resentment bitterness this is where the idea of patriarchy comes from I want that that looks more fun yeah they interpret maybe it's just seeing us piss standing up yeah and they interpret their body as like castrated.
56:21Fin:So it's like they feel less and this shapes their desires and their identity, I guess. This is the interval at the opera. It's like... Yeah. You want my penis, don't you? You want it. You want it. You're jealous of my penis. You can't have it. That is why you can't enjoy this show. It's because you're jealous of my penis. It's like Sigmund, man. Just fucking chill out. All these theories, I guess, is that he starts to become very, very popular in Vienna. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Weirdly, because, yeah, again, in no other city, in no other country, people would be like, this guy is fucking amazing. What genius is this guy?
56:57Fin:So he essentially starts his own psychology school. And we haven't placed this. What year, so this is early 20th century, right? So what year would we say that Freud starts his, like, school? The documentary I watched, there was, like, a series of kind of time-lapse photos where the school kept, like, burgeoning. Right. And more and more psychologists came in, and he was starting to train young neurologists and it became an actual sort of science. 1902, he forms the Wednesday Psychological Society and the group was renamed the Vienna Psychoanalytic Society in 1908. So I know it's right towards the end of the episode, but should we just place this?
57:38Fin:We've been edging our listeners. They will be livid. 1908, that is... After the Titanic. No, it's not. Before the Titanic. Before the Titanic. Where's the Titanic? 1912. 1912. It's just before the Titanic, and it's after icebergs. Yeah. After icebergs. Icebergs are around. When was the first iceberg? Millions of years ago. Let's just try and check. Millions of years ago. Because it might have been the iceberg was just invented and the Titanic hit it. Oh, that's why the Titanic was hit? I don't think there's an answer for that. Hang on. Well, we can't know then. The iceberg that sank the Titanic is believed to have broken off from a glacier around 1909.
58:17Fin:Okay. but the ice is approximately 100 ,000 years old. Brilliant. That places it perfectly. The ice that shattered the Titanic existed. The Titanic did not yet. Perfect. Brilliant. Finally, they know where they are. So we need to talk about one of Freud's students, Carl Jung. Now, Jung is my favourite. I think the stuff he says is much more interesting. Well, Jung, he's a bit more romantic, I feel. Yes, he was. A bit grander. It's a bit more like German idealism sort of. Freud was all about everything you want to do. You don't know you want to do it and it's because you're horny. That's to summarise.
58:53Jung feels more inspiring to the human spirit, I feel, than Freud.
58:57Fin:Yes, totally. Freud's like, you love poo. You're jealous of my cart. It's just like weird. Like he's wearing a suit and he's got like - Freud is a bore. Yeah, it's not even a bore. It's just creepy. He's a creep. Chill out. Yeah. Then Jung, there's just a bit more - I'm going to the shop. Do you want anything? Yeah, I bet you want some poo with that. Like me. I don't think that guy's a bore though, is he? There's something else going on. After a while, you're like, you want some fucking poo with that, do you? You fucking freak. You fucking love it. Yeah. You sick fuck. Freud is a sick fuck. Yeah.
59:35But yeah, Jung, there's an inherent drama to it.
59:39Fin:So Carl Jung is a Swiss German. Yeah. Probably the second most weird type of personality after Austrian, Swiss German. Yeah. And he is sort of gets quite quickly. He's seen as Freud's intellectual heir. There's photos of him as a young man with like a shaved head next to sort of the older Freud. Freud refers to him as his crown prince. Jung is born in 1875, but it comes up, moves to Vienna and because he gets very interested in this mad fucker who's seeing the world through a poo prism. Through a prism of poo. And now their role starts to eventually disintegrate because they have these disagreements about the role of sexuality and the nature of the unconscious and the source of human motivation so freud thinks everything's driven by repressed sexual and aggressive instincts jung thinks this is too narrow which is kind of fair which i think is fair enough yeah there's maybe something else going on yeah and uh so jung felt freud is turning psychoanalysis into kind of a closed belief system rather than a science jung is also open to the way I watched an interview with him and he describes that Jung, he's like, I'm open to new possibilities.
1:00:47Fin:Freud thinks that because I'm open or thinks that I'm open because I love poo or because I just want to suck my mum's tits. I'm like, can you just stop? Can we talk about something else? Something else. It could be something else. I think you want to suck your mum's tits because you keep telling me or that everything I do is because I didn't suck my mum's tits for long enough. And Freud's like, yeah, all right, mate. A friend of mine who was the receptionist at a sex dungeon in New York, one of the finance bros who came in there, the weirdest thing was that he paid to be dressed as a baby with a nappy and he was sucking on the teeth and saying mama while filling his nappy with shit.
1:01:27Fin:I didn't know that bit. Yeah, so he was doing that at the same time. I mean, that's a quite rare example. And in that example, if everyone was like that, maybe Freud is right. No, but Freud thinks everyone is doing that and not telling you. Freud thinks that that Freud thinks that the unique thing about that man is that he's honest right because what's clear about Freud is he's clearly doing all this stuff and saying well everyone's doing this everyone's like no one's doing this Sigmund that's just you no no no we all want to suck our mums tits and shit ourselves and that's human that's the human condition man and everyone's like I think that's the Sigmund condition man don't you get inspired by the human it's just a story about the human condition really yeah that's all it is filling your nap with shit You're just hungering on your mum's teeth.
1:02:09It's a human story.
1:02:10Fin:It's a human story. But how did he get anywhere with theories like this? Because he was Austrian, Charlie. But is there any proof for any of the poo stuff? What do you mean proof? You can't prove any of this. He's the most important psychologist of all time because he's actually thinking about these things and it's a whole different way of framing it. The big thing he does that we can say that he does is the idea of the unconscious. Even the idea of trauma, right? Totally. Repressed trauma. I mean, all of modern therapy, all of modern psych analysis, it starts with Freud, basically. but is there any proof for any of it what do you mean proof can you prove any of this is true it's a framing of the world really the proof is in the pudding as well I think our research when she starts making poo jokes we know we've gone too far proof is in the pudding that's what Friber said there you go you have to admit that yeah proof's in the pudding oh is it the pudding is it yeah you want it you need a poo that's what you need I bet you got dragged out of a lot of bars proof is in the pudding i told you yeah yeah no so um now it's it's the 1920s in austria and germany uh jung is uh is starting to disagree with freud that maybe everything he wants to do in life is because he needed a poo once uh and also another another man with some you know groundbreaking ideas is knocking about yeah this story will intertwine the three of them another difficult dinner party guests yep uh although would you say in austria in 1920s would they balance each other out or is it just blending with all the other dinner party imagine stuck in between 1920s austria is one of the best dinner parties to go the kind of shit that's being said you got a freud there all obsessed with pooing ourselves it's the jewish fucking hell can i change can i change the seating plan for this wedding i got hitler there i got freud there fuck me i'll take a finance bro any day of the week over these guys wild um yeah there's some fruit there's the fruitiest dinner parties ever 1920s austria yeah so but the freud and jung and hitler will all kind of dovetail beautifully in uh in the next part of the story that doesn't like freud uh hitler has a couple issues with freud yeah and it's because hitler is a physiognomist right he's a phrenologist and he sees freud's jewish as well it's got nothing to do with it it's the size of his nose size of his nose the jaw structure uh and also what he's saying but he but he's slightly more sympathetic to jung um which we'll find we'll find out why uh in our next episode uh which is already on our patreon where for three pounds a month you too can uh subscribe to your own type of weird therapy where you get instant access to the series and there's ad free and you get bonus episodes every Friday.
1:05:00Fin:Don't spend that money on a therapist. Spend it on us. We will help whatever's going on. This podcast, we've passed the anal stage. We're now on the phallic stage. Come join us for the journey. Join us on the next stage of our phallic journey. I've just realised Horatio's got a penis. What's that going to do for this podcast? Am I jealous of it? In all seriousness, you know, there's a therapy, you can't, you can't, the seriousness in all the seriousness i'm a very serious man let's get serious let's get serious for a minute people are struggling and you talk to a therapist and you don't tell anyone what you said in the same way if you're a patreon you cannot tell your girlfriend or life partner the kind of things you listen to yeah i once comes into someone in the street you said i'm a patron and the zulu special nearly caused me to break up my girlfriend and i said why and he went it's just too funny isn't it i went okay i don't think that's how she saw it she clearly she was like that's so funny we might need to break up it turns out the next sentence question I asked solved everything she said African anyway that's on the we've got a whole Aladdin's cake we have a whole unconscious of Patreon episodes and they are more unconscious to be honest if this is the ego and the super ego the Patreon is the id totally it's this podcast pure instinct it's shitty on the floor we take the blazer off and Charlie's douching himself behind the camera that's what's happening on the Patreon there is The Nambler episode, the North American Man Boy Love Association.
1:06:23That was a different phase of the patron where it was more just looking at drawings of child pornography.
1:06:28Fin:That was your idea to do that episode, I think. We've got so many. I mean, some of the recent ones we've done have been some of my favourite episodes. Oscarpistorius, Caitlyn Jenner. Really good. Great stuff. And also the film club. I mean, Cartoon, Gordon. I loved that episode. I was a bit disappointed by how, yeah, there wasn't enough blackface in Cartoon. I thought there could have been more. Yeah. There was at least one person who didn't have blackface and I thought that was like, if you're going to do it all. They've missed that one. Yeah, you missed a spot. Anyway, that's on the Patreon as is the next episode in this series.
1:06:56Fin:But if not, we will see you on Thursday as we continue our deep dive into Jung, the Nazis, Nuremberg and beyond. Bye-bye, sexy multi. Bye-bye.
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From your mum’s tits to sexy pig noses – welcome to the worst dinner party of your life.
The History of Psychology (Part One)
The show for people who like history but don't care what actually happened.
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Chapters:
00:00 - The Fruitiest Time
04:08 - Horny Or Hungry?
09:48 - I’m Black Bile
13:51 - Sexy Pig Nose
21:16 - Is That Science?
23:30 - My First Douche
26:25 - Nonce Magician
29:55 - Charlie’s Balls
37:52 - The Sarcastic Breastfeeder
42:41 - Oedipum
48:41 - Freud Is A Bore
53:00 - Suck Your Mum’s Tits
56:29 - Weird Therapy
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