31-Year-Old With More Debt Than Anyone Should Ever Have

0:00The holidays mean more travel, more shopping, more time online, and more personal info in more places that could expose you more to identity theft. But LifeLock monitors millions of data points per second. If your identity is stolen, our U.S.-based restoration specialists will fix it, guaranteed, or your money back. Don't face drained accounts, fraudulent loans, or financial losses alone. Get more holiday fun and less holiday worry with LifeLock. Save up to 40 % your first year. Visit lifelock.com slash podcast. Terms apply. This is a real good story about Bronx and his dad, Ryan, real United Airlines customers.

0:35We were returning home and one of the flight attendants asked Bronx if he wanted to see the flight deck and meet Captain Andrew. I got to sit in the driver's seat. I grew up in an aviation family and seeing Bronx kind of reminded me of myself when I was that age. That's Andrew, a real United pilot. These small interactions can shape a kid's future. It felt like I was the captain. Allowing my son to see the flight deck will stick with us forever. That's how good leads the way. My name is Florian Love. I'm 31. I'm based out of San Antonio, Texas. And this is Financial Audit. So what do you do for a living in San Antonio, Texas?

1:08I'm a middle school orchestra director. Oh, very nice. A music nerd. I'm a music nerd. I started to go to school as a music major in college. Is that what you studied, I assume? Yeah. Okay, very cool. Started as architecture and then went back for music, yeah. Oh, okay. Didn't finish architecture. I'm a big fan of sports and arts and stuff all throughout public school because it gives kids like me a reason to go to school when I absolutely despise school. So yeah, and a good reason to keep, you know, relatively good grades so you can participate in those fun things. What do you make currently?

1:44I'm currently at I think it's 58. Okay. Yeah, I think I get a statement. So it might be up to 60. But I think I'm at 58. How does it feel living off of$58 ,000 right now? It's okay. It's okay. I'm single. My rent's not super high. But I do have debts that I'm trying to pay off. And so it does become a little bit tight some months. So yeah, San Antonio hasn't had the big crazy price increases like Austin has had, even though we're super close to our cities. But I assume rents are still going up a decent amount. Absolutely. I had to move out of my previous apartment that I had for two years about six or seven months ago.

2:29I fortunately found something that was cheaper. It had gone up to$1 ,300, and then I moved into somebody's house in the back. They have a little mini house, and it's like$850. $850, that's your current rent? Yeah. Okay. That's an incredible rent. Yeah, nearly impossible to find. Yeah. All right. Good for you. So I want to hear from your perspective Before we jump into things What is your financial situation? And it's always worse than people think But you will say I'm pretty sure it's not great Yeah I've always been able to kind of float along Previously I was a lot better Like before school I was a lot better with my money Before college?

3:11Before college, yeah My parents are very Well, when did you go to college? So I'm 31 one so you can do the math like I went late uh I went back to school late so I started like 25 26 about 25 25 and so before that I was like doing odd jobs and working so I was a lot tighter on my budget so I was pretty good about it um but when I was in college I did accrue a lot of debt uh credit card debt particularly so yeah sucks um but I always pay my bills I never late on anything uh so i have 100 like pay uh pay history but yeah i'm trying to get out of that hole right now if you want to never miss a payment in your life uh push the subscribe button it's a good luck button actually can't promise it will help with anything but it's a good luck charm are you subscribed i am bless bless bless bless okay well i guess we should dive into this it doesn't sound like it's going to be particularly fun, but...

4:11That's why I'm here. Let's see. That's why you're here. I do appreciate you being here and willing to get bullied for the good of everyone else who might be able to relate to you and then hopefully also improve your life as well. Yes, I see some credit cards. Let's see what this is. We want to go to a checking account first. Not good. So power protected checking? Yeah. Not good, you say? But I mean, it's not like insanely terrible or anything. Started with 912 and then 5 ,210 in, 4 ,552 out,$254 in there. You know, not as comfortable as it bounces I would like, but it's not like dire. It's not like you have like$5 in there.

4:52So what do you mean? It did go down lower than that. To what? It went down to almost zero at the end of the month, like after I sent that. because I paid off a card. Okay. Well, that's for good reason, though, then. Yeah. That was the main reason why. And then I had to, I bought, let's see, I bought a suit jacket for contest. I was taking my kids to contest, so I bought a suit jacket for that and some shirts. And so that plus the credit card brought it down pretty low. Yeah. It was quite low. Well, going through here, see, what immediately gets me is if, I mean, you've self-diagnosed the debt and you're here to get help.

5:39But why are we$35 Uber Eats,$35 Uber Eats,$12 to Whataburger, we're going to Starbucks, we have a Spotify subscription, and Takira and Uber Eats and Uber Eats and Pinch Boil and Apple subscription and Starbucks and, you know, another PayPal thing and an Apple subscription and the jerk and Sprouts. No, Sprouts is okay. We're okay with that. And Uber Eats and an Amazon and Starbucks and Uber Eats. What are you doing? Apple, Apple, Uber Eats. Yeah. Dude, the statement continues. Yeah. It's a lot I did stop cold turkey I deleted Uber Eats and DoorDash And all that stuff But I wanted you to see what I had been doing When did you delete it?

6:30Because even on through the next point It says Uber Eats, Uber Eats, Coca-Cola And just crap, crap, crap I think I deleted it It was before I sent that to you So it was a couple weeks I think before Have you had it once? Not since, no Good. That's actually a very hard habit to break. Have you gone out to eat at all? Yes. Okay. Not as much. I've been cooking at home. We're just not ordering in for delivery through Uber Eats. Now, interesting thing about that that's kind of hard is actually I used to have a roommate

7:04who, like, he would Uber Eats more than he'd want. So he was like, I deleted my Uber Eats. Not going to happen. Then the moment he wanted to Uber Eats something again, he just downloaded it. So it's not like it doesn't really change anything. But I like the effort going into that. And I really like the part that you just haven't done it since it's happened. So that's really good. I think for me it was more a lack of planning. So a lack of buying things in advance. And so when I had a craving, go to the store, buy the stuff, cook it. It's cheaper. So I've been doing that a lot more. uh planning out my meals for the week uh doing my meal prep like i used to do uh getting back into those old habits that i had built up um now over the pandemic depression kind of got a hold of me and so that was the main issue i was i started doing that a lot that's where the uber eats and doordash came in and it got really bad um but i've been doing a lot better lately so So that's helped.

8:10Like having more focus has helped a lot. Okay. Okay. Now what card did you pay off? I want to touch that card first before we hit all these. That was the Bank of America. And then right before I sent this, I had paid off the security service one. It's at the bottom of the checking account, I think. Oh. It says zero. I think that's the one that says zero. Because I think on that statement it has it. Let's take a look at that. Secured. Security service. Yeah. And then it's like the secured credit. yeah i don't see it but what was the debt on there 350 and that's what you paid off yeah i paid that one off and then the and the bank of america was 304 i had been paying off that one for a while so i just what was the total balance of it at that time uh the total balance was 300 something no i'm sorry i'm sorry at its peak what was it sorry i asked that from the what's going on i'm arch manning viore athlete and college quarterback whether i'm running training traveling or just unwinding at home i love doing it in my core shorts from viori with a breathable boxer brief liner they're quick to dry super versatile and stand up to even my most intense training sessions plus they come in three inseams and a ton of colors ready to try a pair go to viori.com slash arch and get 20 off at checkout i think you're going to love them as much as i do that's v-u-r-i.com slash a-r-c-h and get 20 off your first order exclusions apply visit the website for full terms and conditions.

9:35Not only will you receive 20 % off your first purchase, but enjoy free shipping on any U.S. orders over$75 and free returns. Have a great day. Beginning, it was part of a balance transfer. I think it was like$1 ,500. So I've been paying it off over time. Okay. So I'll get some happiness out of the way before we get into death. But the happiness part is I am glad that you've paid off those balances. The part that I hate as I've been going through these, I wish it was one of the larger balance cards. Yeah. And the ones that we touch have been the smallest. Now, it makes sense if you're following, like, the snowball method where you do lowest to highest.

10:14That's what I'm trying to do. That's the method you're going for? Okay. And it's an effective method, I think, especially for people like you. But let's see what else we have. We have an Apple card. So, on here,$1 ,353.46. Yeah. With a minimum monthly payment of$87.98 It's a chunky minimum monthly payment Just for one thing I've been paying$100 to$120 every month Yeah, I see$100 was put there See, this is what I don't get Why do people do this? You're in the situation You're ready to go You're starting to make changes Even with all the Uber Eats And, would you stop? But even with all the Starbucks and stuff that you're doing and checking account this car that we're putting$100 to on a monthly basis.

11:03Why are we going to spend$15 at Starbucks on here? What's the purpose? No explanation. Oh, actually, that$15, that was I bought some of my students' parents' stuff. The parents. I don't care about them. I care about you not having to procure more debt on a 26.24 % interest rate. Spoil the parents of the little shits When you are out of the debt Yes Yeah I do overspend for my kids a lot $30 of interest you lost $30 of interest you lost in this statement And I know you gotta make the parents happy Because the parents are pretty much the teacher's worst nightmare As far as I understand it Because Every parent thinks that their opinion Is the most important and unique thing When you're dealing with like hundreds of kids Because you're an orchestra teacher, so you have a lot of kids.

11:58I'm fortunate with my parents. They're pretty good. Good. My first year, I had some terrible parents. Yeah. Yeah. I guess it ebbs and flows, right? Now we have Capital One. That one's what? What was it? 13, I think. Sorry, 17. There you go. Yeah. 17. Well,$1 ,749. 47 cents. With a minimum monthly payment. See? It's getting stacked. This is where the minimum monthly payments really start to hurt. Yeah. Of$57. Oh, okay. That was interest charge. I was about to just freak out. Yeah, no, I didn't charge. I haven't charged on that one yet. But still,$40 of interest lost. It's a lot. Yeah. That just sucks because these interest charges that are accumulating just between these two cards so far, I mean, you're getting bullied on a monthly basis.

12:51Oh, but rounded up. I mean, it's basically 30 % interest. You're losing on this Yeah It wasn't that when I got it But it's the variable No sure not Yeah It's gonna just continue to go up and up and up And you're only I mean you did a few dollars higher than the minimum monthly payment Not yeah Bank of America That's the one you paid off Good No purchases No interest Fantastic Doesn't that feel good Doesn't that feel good Very Have you chopped it up yet because you are clearly not a credit card person. Okay, why? I don't use it, but I have them on my desk. I don't really use them, though. The one that I have used, unfortunately, is the one you're getting to, the Discover.

13:38Oh, that's the one I just swiped to. Because I bought a violin, and I bought Bose at TMEA. I needed them. I just saw this for my master's. No! No! Why are we considering going back to school? You're not even out of your original student loans And we haven't even talked about that And then we have this freaking discover With basically$10 ,000 on it Why are you even possibly considering Going back to school Yet I want to level up my career I just want to get that over with What do you mean But it makes no sense When we're over$10 ,000 In terrible credit card debt You only made$406 of payment, which, I mean, it sounds like a good payment, but on$10 ,000, because guess what?

14:29You charged$1 ,592 to what was a previous balance of$8 ,266 with a minimum monthly payment of$194, dude. $194, now you're like$300 of minimum monthly payments. With interest Interest charge of$172.58 So now we're hundreds of dollars Being lost in interest On a monthly basis dude Yeah You purchased what again? A violin and bows? Yeah I got violin bows at TMEA I traded in my Pernambuco bow Because right now Pernambuco is A controlled commodity So since I travel A lot You traded in a what? Pernambuco bow. Oh, okay. Brass. Yeah, yeah. I don't know, strings. The sticks are expensive. But I traded that in, and then I got a carbon fiber as well.

15:29So, I got those too. Yeah. Okay. And then, in December... You have a prime thing on here, and you're going to Walmart as well. It doesn't make sense. This is your highest balance card. Yeah. Dude, I will let you talk about that college in a bit, but I... This doesn't make sense right now. Yeah. Can you return it? No. And total fees. Total fees of$41. What? What happened for$41? I don't know. I've never missed a payment. Return check charge. Oh, yeah, because I hadn't transferred. This is stupid. Yeah, okay. It's all stupid so far. It's worse. So for some reason, when I first got the card, my auto payments, I put them in my savings account.

16:17which I don't know why I did that. I was stupid. I did that when I was like 23, and at the time, I... A KFC tale in the pursuit of flavor. The holidays were tricky for the Colonel. He loved people, but he also loved peace and quiet. So he cooked up KFC's$4.99 chicken pot pie. Warm, flaky, with savory sauce and vegetables. It's a tender, chicken-filled excuse to get some time to yourself and step away from decking the halls, whatever that means. The Colonel lived so we could chicken. KFC's Chicken Pot Pie, the best$4.99 you'll spend this season. Prices and participation may vary. Supplies last.

16:53Taxes, tips, and fees extra. Paid everything fine, but I didn't do that. I hadn't transferred the right amount at that time. So I switched it. I did switch it. So now it's pulling out of my checking account, so I don't have to worry about that. But, yeah. 23.24 % interest, and it's probably going up. There's another one City Oh my god Yeah that was a balance transfer

17:21I've paid off my cards a couple times Oh I feel so bad for you Please don't even be considering masters right now Oh my gosh You're like every music major I know Endlessly going to school Endlessly going into debt Please be the exception Who actually just Lives a financially successful life my dude As someone who is in that world And still would love to be I would love a commission to write some music For an ensemble Please, I promise You do not all have to constantly be in school For your entire life My gosh, I swear that's the only thing They know how to do music majors Is be in school We have$5 ,192.79 No new charges Fantastic And it's on no interest right now Yeah, that's a balance transfer.

18:11And that's what I wanted to talk to you about, which one I should pay off the quickest. Obviously, that one probably. We'll get there. You did$79. Minimal monthly payment is$78. Those are minimum, yeah. And with the snowball method. So, I just did my taxes. And so, I'm getting back like$1 ,900. So, I was trying to decide which. I was thinking either the Apple Card or the Capital One. And then continue to pay off larger bits on the others. But I wasn't sure. We'll get to that. Yeah, I hear you. I got it.

18:45That's the last card, right? I think? There's a care credit, but that's 0 % interest. I forgot to put that one on there. For my teeth. Your teeth. That's$100 a month. What's the balance, though? I want to say$12. $1200. No,$12 ,000. God dang, no. I don't know man I wouldn't have been surprised at this point 100 bucks minimum monthly payment Yeah Zero interest Yeah but there's zero interest for so long Like when is the zero interest for Citi done? End of the year Okay And the CARES is zero interest As long as you make your minimum monthly payment until the end? Yeah Okay don't f*** that up Nope Okay You drive debt Yes 54 month loan term Pretty long but not The longest we see We see lots of 72's on here Not as good as Just 3 years but whatever You have a 20 20 Kia Niro Niro Okay Balance of Of death of$15 ,624.08 with a minimum monthly payment of, dude, your minimum monthly, 500 essentially.

20:14Your minimum monthly payments, man. How are you even living with your minimum? Good thing your rent is low or else you wouldn't be able to survive. Yeah. What is the interest rate on this? 6.5. Not great, but we've just had so many absolutely disgusting ones on here that that almost feels good. But, oh. Gosh, and you got this like a couple years ago. Now what I don't have on here is your student loans, so we should probably do that. What are your student loans? $13 ,000. Oh, not bad. All federal? Yeah. Okay, so they're paused. I'm sorry? Yeah, no private. Oh, good. Yeah, I got mostly Pell Grant.

20:50So I was fortunate. It was the last year I had to take out loans. Bad news for you. They are not going to get forgiven. There's like no chance with the Supreme Court. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. But I don't think so Yeah I'm pretty sure So your minimum monthly payments for those will probably be Like 200 bucks? 150 bucks? Yeah something like that Last I checked Congratulations You have$47 ,786.72 of debt Across 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 different debts So yay I get to use the title and thumbnail that I love to use This 31-year-old has more debt than anyone should ever have with the fire and all the good stuff.

21:34Yeah. It is not good that I get to use that because that means your situation sucks. What matters is how to get out of it. But before we do go to that, well, actually, your minimum monthly payments on your debt, not including student loans because you don't have to pay them right now, is$1 ,000. More than your freaking rent, dude. $1 ,000. And with your student loans, it'll be like$1 ,200. Oh, you're probably... Are you bi-weekly? What are you? Monthly? What's your monthly check? Like$4 ,500? About that, yeah. Yeah. So, boom. Immediately a fourth of it. Go straight to minimum monthly payments and debts.

22:24It's crazy. It doesn't feel good. And that's why we need to have a very, very serious conversation about this grad school thing. What is in your mind? Tell me. So my plan for grad school is to go back for performance pedagogy. Why? Okay. Sorry. That's how most people respond. The reason is I want to do research into performance anxiety since it's something I kind of struggled with. and the music ed degree doesn't really cover the stuff I want to do. I want to do more research-based things and do more like traveling, lecturing and stuff like that and the college level. So that's the degree that kind of fit.

23:10If not, it was. This episode is brought to you by NBA on Prime. This Tuesday at 830 Eastern, it's the Emirates NBA Cup Championship game on Prime. This year's quest for the cup has been building to this, the championship game, live from Las Vegas. Not a Prime member? Sign up for a 30-day free trial to get started today. The Emirates NBA Cup Championship Game, this Tuesday at 8.30 Eastern, only on Prime. Restrictions apply. See Amazon.com slash Amazon Prime for details. I'll be moving to England and going to the Royal College, which I'm not doing. you know what makes the best you know what will pay the top dollar for someone to travel to their institution to talk about a subject they studied on it wouldn't be a degree it would be the research they've actually done why don't you pursue that in any way your own studies of any kind using the methods you probably already know the methods you probably don't need the degree to do it people aren't just going to bring you around to different institutions just because you hold a piece of paper.

24:13Oh, I know that. So why don't you just do this? If this is what you want to do, why don't you just do it on the side right now? Spend every moment that isn't put towards teaching right now towards that. I'm trying to pivot out of teaching at school. I know, but instead of just going into debt for something you don't necessarily need, why not do this? Start doing all the research necessary. Write papers. I have been doing the research. Which, in fact, in my car, I have a stack of books. Then why do you need to go do this? No offense.

24:51Almost, almost worthless degree. Yeah. And by worth, I don't mean... There's a lot of definitions for worth. On the show, we talk about just straight up return on investment money. And there's not going to be much worth with that. Mental worth, sure, you'll walk away with some things that are great. and it can be worth it in a variety of things. But when it comes to return on your investment, not great. Yeah. How set are you on this? Kind of set. The fact that I made the audition and my statement of purpose. To where? It's just UTSA. I'm not going anywhere. I'm going to stay where I am. Yeah, but you're going to take out more debt for it, aren't you?

25:37I'm trying to figure that out right now. I did get a scholarship. It's very small. But they also want to offer me to work at the college. Yeah. It's like assistantship. So I want to see how much that'll pay for as well. What would the two years cost? I'm assuming two years, four semesters. Yeah, yeah. It's two years. It's, I think it's 20. I think the total is maybe 40, 45. Yeah, it's a lot. So that's, I'm trying to figure that out at the moment. But if you think about it, that$45 ,000 is probably not going to receive$45 ,000 because you have the degree specifically. So why do it? Because that's interesting.

26:20You're doing it as a want more than it actually being good for your life. Pursue this. I do not have the expertise in that field specifically, but I know for a fact the people that become the qualified individuals that travel to different institutions are the ones who have published successful studies and papers, stuff like that. That's the goal. That is the goal. But do you need the degree to do that specifically? Not necessarily. I do also want to continue my craft and my instrument. Yes, but do you need a degree to do that specifically? No, I could take lessons. Are you good at your instrument?

27:03Yeah. Then you play for different ensembles around San Antonio. I do. I do. Good. Again, this obsession with people in the arts, of which I love the arts, big supporter of the arts, but the obsession that it's constantly needing to be in school, constantly needing to be going in debt. It's not a necessity. It's not necessarily beneficial for your life, for your total life. You'll be putting yourself – you've already missed the best decade of your life for retirement. Now you're going to be essentially missing the second best decade of your life because you're going to be going to debt for a couple years.

27:40Then you're going to spend all the time trying to get out of the debt and all that stuff because I doubt whatever they're going to pay is going to fully cover it and all that stuff. What was your scholarship amount? It was only$1 ,000 for semester. Okay, so nothing. I don't think there's any convincing you out of this, though. That's the issue. I'm open to suggestions The suggestion is F*** you don't go But I also do know that I can Teach private lessons as well That can be really lucrative It can be, that doesn't mean let's go into debt True Or let's go just Even if you fully cash flow Again the return on investment doesn't make sense Mathematically speaking You can do this stuff man Some of the best composers I personally know have like a bachelor's degree.

28:27Composition, that's what I was really into. Some, yes they do get the master's, some, yes they go get the whole enchilada with, you know doctorate and everything. Fantastic. You don't need it though. You don't need it to be successful at your craft. One of the best tuba players I know in the world who is now the tuba player Kansas City Symphony Joe, shout out to Joe He just has his master's degree That's all he has As far as I know And I highly doubt he even needed his master's degree To go do that This is because he's a bad f*** at playing tuba Be a bad f*** at playing violin Be a bad f*** at conducting research Successfully and accurately And writing papers correct Writing papers in a way that I'm just I'm losing the terms I want to have in a way that they are dignified and qualified in any way whatsoever.

29:26You know, you're following the proper methods, essentially. Peer review. Just peer review everything, whatever you have to do. Not necessarily needing a$45 ,000 piece of paper behind you while you're doing it. Just, dude, I promise for your life, financially speaking, which is what this channel is about, you do not need this. Please, please. Plus, you're giving up a$60 ,000 a year job. Well, you are trying to pay off$47 ,786 of debt, none of which is going to be forgiven. None. Thoughts? No, well, that's why I came here for a reality check. So I agree that it's not going to be a good financially.

30:15It's not a financially sound path. No, it is not. Yeah. That's Yeah Cause you're gonna be forced To be working in your Like 70s and 80s If you keep going down this road Yeah Alright You're bringing $4 ,500 a month Well let's make you A little budget And get out of this mess Tell me that you will do Anything and everything In your power To get out of debt But in Russian I'm not that good Oh Americans told Washington What they want Lower costs Yet Brandon Carr's FCC Is considering a merger Between TV station giants Nextar and Tegna. If approved, millions of Americans will pay even more to watch TV.

30:53They'll pay more to watch the news, entertain their kids, or cheer on their favorite team. Thankfully, President Trump knows what Americans want, and President Trump can stop this. Bending Carr needs to reject the Nextar-Tegna merger and protect Americans from higher TV bills. Paid for by Cupid Local Media. See, this dude comes walking into the office. I'm not fluent. This dude, Brandon, step in the frame for a second. Peek, say hi. He's behind the camera and he's the editor. And this dude comes walking in and all of a sudden I come in after scrunching my hair and they're both just speaking in Russian and German.