243. Broke? Start Here with Dasha Kennedy (The Broke Black Girl)

21:49So for me, I think the mindset shift for me was going to be a little different because I had kids really young. So when I was going through all of this, I already had a child. And for me as a mom, I just did not want my son to pay for like my lack of anything. So lack of money, lack of knowledge, lack of know-how. I just didn't want him to pay for that. And so the mindset shift, I needed to start looking at money as a tool. I needed it to be something that I can use to get me from point A to point B. It couldn't be something that I just wanted to hold on to. I needed to strategically use it to catapult us forward in some type of way.

22:35And the way that I look at debt even today is that if I can free up as much debt as possible in a month, that creates more opportunity, more opportunities to save, to invest, to enhance my quality of life. And that can look like something as far as moving into a safer community all the way down to a better pair of walking shoes. Like if I don't have to give all of my money to debt payments, I can use it in a better way. And just keeping that in mind, I was always determined to get out of the payday loan cycle and keep debt as low as possible or at least be able to manage it. So for me, the mindset shift was I work too damn hard for my money.

23:19I don't want to spend it all giving it back to someone else when it has no return to me in a way that's going to improve my life.

23:29Tori Dunlap:one of the questions I really struggle to answer is I 100 understand what's happening people come to us and say like I have nothing left over I can't do anything else like I work two jobs already I cut my spending this is something I struggle to answer because at that point if you truly are living paycheck to paycheck and I'm not taking paycheck to paycheck and you have like a Netflix subscription right because some people live paycheck to paycheck because they don't know how to manage their money or they're ignoring their financial problems right but I'm talking true systemic paycheck to paycheck.

24:01Tori Dunlap:Have you found anything that offers help to people who are truly struggling in this situation? So I will say this, and I think in that moment, I think, and I'll say this, and maybe you can relate to this a little bit. I think in that moment, it's time to like take off the financial educator hat, because I think in that moment, And most people want validation because that's exactly what I need. They want to be saying like, that's exactly what I needed when the, when that was me. Like I needed someone to say, okay, you're not making this up. You're, you're, you're not crazy. We know that this is happening.

24:39Tori Dunlap:And I, because absolutely in the beginning, I just wanted it to be fixed. I wanted strategy, but the reality was there was no other answer besides just got to make more money. And sometimes that comes off. Like no one wants to hear that in their moment because that's not always like like an overnight fix. And I completely understand that. So I knew like for me back then, I just wanted validation. Like I know I'm not making this up. I know I'm not crazy. I know like this, this is real. I've done, I've cut everything out. Can't cut nothing else out. I probably don't even have the time to even pick up the extra ship or whatever.

25:12But in this moment, just let me be seen. Just let me be validated. And so with the broke black girl, that was something that I saw a lot. And I think that's why it's so important to just create safe spaces where you can have honest conversations free from judgment and just give people a moment to vent because sometimes that's priceless once a person is able to like get that off their chest to me i think in many cases that's priceless now we have talked about it now let's get into strategy now let's put the financial educator hat back on let's get into strategy let's get into next steps but i don't think that i don't think as far as me and you as ever as long as we do this i don't think there's ever going to be an easy answer when we hear that question because this It really is only one answer, but I know that's not the immediate go-to answer because people just want to be validated and seen in that moment.

25:59Tori Dunlap:I think that's a great perspective. I 100 % agree. I think in addition to that, people want to realize and be confirmed that it's not their fault or like there's not something that they could be doing because they go to people like Dave Ramsey or, you know, Caleb Hammer, anybody that's yelling at them about their choices. And there's so much shame on a good day in the personal finance community, right? But there's a lot of shame when it truly does feel like I'm doing everything I possibly can. It still doesn't feel like enough. Is this my fault? And I'm like, girly pop, it's not. It's not your fault.

26:36Tori Dunlap:It's not. Even though a million people want to tell you that it's because you're not working hard enough or it's because you made this stupid choice 10 years ago, right? And it's like, you probably didn't have the education you do now, or you probably didn't have the wherewithal to understand, you know, what would be a smarter financial choice. And sometimes you got to do what you got to do in order to get to, you know, the next paycheck. And so I think that's the other thing in addition is people just want to definitely feel seen, feel validated, but also just know that like this is where the system has failed you.

27:12Tori Dunlap:This is where there's nothing additionally that you, it's not your fault in this case, you know? And I think it's important for people to know that being broke or experiencing any type of and I and I always use the word broke because that is a reality for for most people. And I think that being broke is not something to be ashamed about. It's sometimes it's just what it is. And I always want people to know, like, it's not it's not a personal failure. It's just a temporary financial circumstance. That's that's all that it is. And we live in a culture today that treats poverty or being broke like a character flaw, like it's a flaw.

27:52And, you know, and it's not. Yes, identity. It is 100 percent not because, you know, many of us have been there. I've been broken. It wasn't always because I was irresponsible, but because I was trying to survive. And I want more people to to understand that, like, it's not like some scarlet letter that you have to wear. It's just a stop. It's a pause. It's a part of the journey. and it's not who you are. It's really in many cases like just where you've been. That to me, ultimately, that's what it came down to for me.

28:25Tori Dunlap:So the person who's listening, who is like, I am broke or I'm damn close to it. What is their first step to getting unbroke? The very first thing, and this is probably the hardest thing that I see a lot of people want to avoid. I think the very first thing, it's time to look at everything that's going on. I always tell people, When you say that you're broke or you say you don't have any money, take the assumption out. A lot of times we're just saying that. We probably haven't dug into bank statements, credit card statements, opening. I know I tell people a lot to open your mail so that you have an idea of what's going on.

28:59I think the very first step is just getting involved with your money. To me, I look at having a relationship with my money as probably the most intimate relationship that I have. I want to know what you're thinking. What's going on? Why are we going over here? What could we be doing differently? I think of that as the most intimate relationship ever because I want to be completely involved. I want to know everything. So I always encourage people to figure out what's going on, dig into everything. When I first started The Broke Black Girl, this was the first thing we did as a group. I had everyone pull bank statements and we just combed through everything.

29:33And so seeing some of the feedback of people realizing like, oh, I'm spending like a thousand extra dollars on fast food or I'm spending like$500 here or there or I'm paying these extra fees in my phone subscription that I didn't know about because on average people are not looking they're not looking into you know the bank statements the credit card statements they're not reviewing any of those things and I know for me it was more so rooted in in the beginning for me okay if my lights are on no one's calling my phone the repo man isn't trying to like get my car off the off the street everything is good it was like out of sight out of mind everything is good but But the reality of it was everything was not good.

30:12And I would have known that much earlier had I just paused for a little while and combed through everything. So I always tell people the first step is you have to figure out what is going on. You got to put yourself in a driver's seat. You have to.

30:25Tori Dunlap:Yeah, I think that fear comes from, again, I don't want to look at my money because I'm too scared of what I'm going to find. But if you are opting out in that way, ironically, right, that is making your situation worse. and I liken it to not having a gas gauge in your car, but then just driving to the next state over, right? Going on a road trip. It's like, if you don't know how much gas is in your car, you end up stranded at two in the morning on the side of the road in a town you've never heard of with no cell reception. Like, and that's what's happening when you raw dog your spending as just, you're just spending money on things that you don't really know because you're not checking your money.

31:03Tori Dunlap:And so if you're saying you're broke, but you have not checked your bank statements or have not checked your credit card statements, you actually don't know if you're broke. Yeah. Yep. That's true. That is 100 % true. And I think the word broke sometimes is used loosely, you know, it's used loosely, loosely, like you pick and I, to figure that out, that is really where you are, because I think it's hard to move forward. Like you said, if you don't know where you're going or how far you can go, it's hard to make a A decision it's hard to come up with solutions and so a lot of times we get stuck in this Oh, everything is going bad.

31:39I don't know what's what what to do next and it's really because we don't even know where we are So for many people it may be that okay. Yes, they are broke for many people Maybe oh, okay. I got a little I got a little wiggle room for other people It may be like, okay, everything actually is good. I'm just not managing it correctly Like the solution is going to look different for everyone based on where you are starting but the key is to know where you are starting. You have to know where you are standing.

32:05Tori Dunlap:Desha, you're actually the perfect person to talk about this with. So something that I've been thinking a lot about over the past couple of years is even the way we use the word broke. There's a lot of people, especially I think us white girls who will go, oh, I can't go to brunch. I'm so broke. Lolz. And there's, for me, there's two problems with that. one is broke is not a fun thing like i think we sometimes use being financially insecure because it's relatable and it's it's like it's i don't know it just feels normal and then we try to normalize it almost in a way that's a joke and like the internet at a satirical.

32:55Tori Dunlap:I get it. Like that's a lot of our senses of humor. If you're a millennial or Gen Z, I understand that. But like, it's not cool to not know what's going on with your money. Like that's not cool. That's not relatable. That's not fun. That's not something to aspire to. And I think the second thing that goes on there is that 90 % of the people who are going, lulz, I'm so broke, are not actually broke. And it almost feels like an insult to the people who are actually financially struggling when you're just being directly irresponsible with your money yeah i think this is a i think one me and you both are the perfect people to hash this conversation out because i think i think when people use this so loosely online it puts me right back in the beginning of why i started the broke black girl in the first place like when i first started i knew that it was that it was going to be hard for people to accept they were probably not going to life, which I got a ton.

33:52I don't even know if I ever told you about that, but I got a ton of pushback in the beginning about keeping the word broke, you know, in my name. And it was because people felt like, well, why do you want to say that? I said, well, that's the truth. And I didn't want to be relatable. I wanted to be honest. I wanted to be vulnerable. I wanted to be transparent because I feel like this is my truth. So when I do see people do exactly, you know, what you said, sometimes I think that it takes away from how serious, you know, that is. I wanted us to have serious, tough conversations about money, about being broke, because I don't believe that people that are broke or that are experiencing the things that I experienced should be in the back of the conversations or be ashamed to show up online because they have to go about things a little differently.

34:36And I think if more people had the mindset that you have with what you just said, like, you know, it's not funny. It's not funny to be irresponsible. And, you know, we laugh it off and it's like that. That's not funny. So when we have people that are wanting to show up online and seek community and seek help because they are actually broke and it's not a joke to them. Sometimes, like you said, social media can make it like, you know, a funny thing. And I even had like a whole little feel with like girl math for a while in the beginning. It was funny. You know, it was funny in the beginning. But then it went to like, oh, I know y 'all trying to call us stupid.

35:11I'm like, it wasn't funny anymore because I'm like, no girl math. We actually know what the hell we doing. Like if we're being honest, like we know, you know what we're doing. And I feel like that's kind of the same. It kind of went to a different space and I started to feel really differently about it. But I do 100 percent agree with everything that you're saying, how I feel like social media sometimes can make a joke out of being broke or it can make it seem like being irresponsible with your money is for laughs and giggles. And I feel like it's not when you are so deeply embedded into why women have the experience with money like we have today.

35:47And I think me and you both, you know, understand the history of it. To me, nothing about that is funny. Nope.

35:54Tori Dunlap:No, I mean, I couldn't get credit cards in our own name till 1976. I'm not laughing. That's not laughing. My mom was born in the early 60s. Like my mom is older than the ability for me to get a credit card. Like, that's wild. We couldn't get a business loan in our own name until the 80s. Like, this shit is, you're exactly right. It's not funny. And anybody out there, I'm politely calling you out. If you've been using the, like, lulls, I'm so broke because it's funny or it's quirky or you think, like, it's relatable, it's actually not something to aspire to. Like, that attitude is not something to aspire to.

36:34Yeah, that is 100 % true. And I think the other side of that that you mentioned as well is that I think that sometimes social media in the world within itself has has made it feel like the only way we can talk about money is in a way where it's like. I'm struggling struggling and it's like, no, we can have conversations that are rooted, you know, in wealth and having money abundance. We can have those conversations and feel good about those conversations, even be cocky about it. You know what I'm saying? Right. Everybody else do it. Everybody else does it. Well, the white men do it. Yeah. The white men do it.

37:09They do it. They do it. And they do it without shame, without care. We can have those conversations, too. Like, multiple things can happen at once. And I do 100 % agree with you and understand. Like, I don't like when I see, you know, women do that. Because I think sometimes it's probably for laughs and giggles, when other times it's probably insecurity. They probably feel like that's the only way that they can talk about money is if they make a joke out of it. And for me, I say, no, screw that. The world already tries to make a joke out of us. though anyway i'm not chiming in you know with that i'm not joining in with it yeah well and let

37:41Tori Dunlap:it be an opportunity for vulnerability if this is truly something you can't afford or truly something that you're like i can't do this okay be honest about it it doesn't i i get we joke in order to like cushion the blower because we're afraid what other people are gonna think but like this whole society and whole system where talking about money is so gauche and impolite and frowned God does not change unless we work to change it. And it's in these little moments where you can be that change. You can go, actually, you know what? I can't afford this thing, but I would still love to hang out with you.

38:15Tori Dunlap:Let's find a way to hang out instead. Yes. We could talk about this forever. I 100 % agree with that because I feel like when I think about the broke black girl, that was my whole thing. And even today, people will say like, you know, because your circumstances have changed, or you ever going to change the name? And I always say no, because it was never just about me. Like, although my circumstances have changed, there is still someone, another, you know, broke black girl that is seeking community and space to show up vulnerable, just like I had to back in 2017. So I always say like, no, you know, I'm never going to change the name.

38:50I just feel like it's such a layered conversation because I do want more of us to be comfortable with being vulnerable. Like being vulnerable and coming out and saying like, I'm broke. I did all of the combing through everything and it just wasn't making sense. I'm broke. I need a safe space to share that. And I also want to share some of the things that I'm going to do to try to fix that, which is how the broke black girl started. It's power and vulnerability. Now, if I made a joke of it or kept my mouth closed or only went through it behind closed doors because I didn't want people to judge me or feel any shame, I would have been sitting on so much impact.

39:31So it's so much strength and power when we do speak up and say, I am experiencing this. This is, you know what I'm saying? What's happening? Having honest and vulnerable conversations. I just think it's so important, especially for women, because nobody else is going to do it for us. So it's like, we have to take lead in those conversations.

39:49Tori Dunlap:I mean, same thing with me. Her first 100K was my own 100K. I'm past 100K at this point right so i'm not changing the name it's not her first million it's not her first whatever it's like it's this it's now her meaning the millions of women in the community same thing for you you were the girl now the other women are the girls right they're all the broke black girls so i totally get it i really want to like double tap on everything dacia and i just talked about it all feels fun and games to make jokes about money and being bad with money and lulz i'm so broke but I'm a huge believer in the idea of the energy you put out is what you get back.

40:25Tori Dunlap:And if you're always joking about being bad with money or broke, when you have an opportunity to change that narrative, the only person you're hurting is yourself. You're going to stay stuck. Nothing's going to change. So when we come back, we're talking about some of the systems Daisha created to help her get out of being broke and how to overcome money trauma once you start getting back on your feet so you don't fall into those old patterns. See you back here.

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43:09Tori Dunlap:You have a really interesting system that you've talked about called emergency savings tiers. Can you talk me through that? Yes. So I believe in having different tiers because I don't think that every situation is an emergency. And this is something that I had to learn, you know, the hard way. Some things are an inconvenience, not necessarily an emergency that calls on me pulling out of my emergency fund. And I had this really, really badly because I would treat everything like an emergency. And when I really had an emergency, there was no funds. The money, you know, the money was gone. And so I ended up creating different tiers.

43:48And just to go over some of them, like the first tier could be something like, oh, you're out, let's say, at a concert or something. And now you're realizing parking is cash only. That to me is like level one, you know, emergency. You know, you got to pay for parking. you don't have any, you know, you can't use your cards, can't use no tap to pay. So maybe you got about$20,$50 on you, whatever it may be. To me, that's an emergency without me having to pull from my level four emergency fund. Our level four could be home repairs, core repairs. And I think just creating systems that keep you proactive is so important because for me, it was major to eliminate all same day decisions.

44:31So by me being proactive and already having a solution for anything that I can think of, it really helped me avoid when a level four emergency happened, I didn't deplete it because it was multiple level one emergencies. And now I'm just taking money, taking money, taking money. Now the court needs repaired and I don't have it. So now I'm using a credit card. Now I'm in debt and I'm just now thrown into a cycle. When had I just created me a system like I have with the different tiers, I could have avoided some of those things. And when it comes to just emergencies, period, I'm just not someone that believes all emergencies are created equal.

45:08I just don't think that they, oh, I mean, thorough things are urgent, but not all emergencies are created equal. It doesn't mean that we shouldn't prepare for them because they can happen. It's just that all of them should not be coming out of, in my opinion, one fund because when something may just happen then we don't have the money and then you know now we're right back at

45:28Tori Dunlap:square one i think something really interesting happens when people do escape the broke mindset they get out of the day-to-day and they start realizing oh shit maybe i can spend money on myself but then they either don't do it because they're so afraid of you know the other shoe dropping or on the flip side they're like cool i have more money now so they go blow it all because they haven't established good financial habits and understanding of their money trauma. Can we talk about when you do go from broke to thriving, what the potential pitfalls there are? So for me, this, of course, this is lifestyle inflation.

46:08We see this happen, you know, a lot. And I think it's a touchy conversation, especially for someone who had to spend a lot of time denying you know themselves of things you couldn't do anything nice for yourself couldn't buy yourself anything new this was i struggled with this for a really long time so it's like once that money started getting good immediately you want to start getting all of the things we have to say no to so that's clothes shoes purses it could be anything you start wanting to treat yourself so i want to preface this by saying there's nothing wrong with that there's absolutely nothing wrong with that And this is where I think one of the most overlooked tools in finance comes into play.

46:48We talk about budgets all the time. To me, I consider doing something nice for myself as an expense. I'm adding that into my budget so that when I am doing something nice for myself or I do use my money that I have now worked so hard to get and I want to give it back to myself, I've already accounted for that. So now I can freely go out and do something nice for myself without thinking, oh, is this the light bill money? Oh, is this from the grocery budget? I've already accounted for those things. And there's nothing wrong with wanting to enhance your lifestyle. I really think that, you know, we should because, again, it looks differently for different people.

47:28It could be being in a safer neighborhood, having a safer, you know, car, being able to afford, you know, whatever it may be, things that make your life a little bit easier. There's nothing wrong with wanting to enhance your quality of life. But what normally happens is when we get there, it's like a kid in the candy store. You have to say no all the time. Now you're in the store without your mama. You can grab whatever and do whatever. So now it just, it comes like, we don't forget the big picture. Like we can say yes to some things. We can start treating, doing things for ourselves like an expense, adding it, you know, to our budget.

48:04It's something that we pay into every month. even if you don't use it every month. But I definitely think that that is so important. I know a lot of women struggle with it. I even struggle. It was it was easier for me when things really started to get good for me. It was easier for me to do things for other people than it was ever, you know, for me to do for myself, because I felt like I'm not one. I'm the oldest child in a black family. If you know anything about oldest daughters, we end up taking on a lot of responsibility for a lot of people. So I already was used to doing things for other people.

48:36So it was easy for me to take care of everyone else before I took care of myself. But one thing that I do want women to know, like you can't pour from an empty cup. So it's like, it means nothing if everyone else is taken care of around you and you haven't taken care of yourself because eventually that will is going to run dry.

48:53Tori Dunlap:We started this episode talking about how it's so important to have a financial education, especially if you're broke, but especially if you're a person of color. And we've talked a lot on the show with Tiffany Aliche, with Rich and Regular on other episodes about the distrust of banks generally for people, but specifically for the black community. And you share that you've struggled with this too. Can you talk us through your experience? And for someone who maybe has not had this experience of distrusting banks, what is at play here? With me being 37, the distrust that I had in banks was generational.

49:35So it didn't even have to be something that I experienced firsthand. It was things that my mom and my dad experienced, my grandma experienced, my great grandma experienced. So that the distrust in banks was something that was slowly but surely fed to me as I was growing up. Where you would hear people say things like, oh, I'm not putting my money in the banks. I don't trust the banks. or oh i'm going to put my money under the mattress or not saving in a bank not investing just holding on to the cash in the in the house so constantly growing up and hearing these things over and over so that when i became of age i wasn't put i immediately had already made the decision that i was not putting my money in the banks because i didn't trust the banks didn't know the history of it until i was much older so when you learn the history of and you see what happened like Freeman Savings Banks, and you see how black people trusted banks and we put our money in banks and it was not invested and used for our best interest, but more so against us, you can understand why even today in 2025, a lot of people, especially older people still have that mentality of mistrusting banks.

50:46My relationship with banks didn't start to improve until I actually worked for a bank. So then you start to understand the inner workings of a bank. You start to understand what's okay, what's not okay, how to advocate for yourself, what questions to ask, how to build a relationship with a bank. But this conversation is usually touchy for me because it makes me think of all the opportunities that my family missed out on because of the history of the Black community and banks. Like when I said my grandma was the first person in our family to ever own a home. So it's multiple generations living in one home because it was because the relationship with, we know, with banks and then seeing, overhearing my family say things like, oh, the banks steal your money.

51:33And just overhearing these things over, this fear was just so embedded in me. By the time I was older, I just felt like it wasn't something that I wanted, you know, to do. And again, generational, generational trauma passed down to us and it came out in by way of our finances. And it was such a hard thing because I think like, OK, my family could have had real estate. My family could have had business loans like my dad started his first business. My dad scraped up money to buy, you know, shaping dishes and utensils and burners to start a catering company. it could have looked so much different for us if that deep distrust with banks did not exist and those barriers with getting banks and getting loans and black people getting access to those things just wasn't there and it's a touchy conversation because it's like the broke black girl probably wouldn't i probably wouldn't i probably would have needed it it probably would Decades before me, things would have looked different.

52:38So it's touching because it's like you see so many missed opportunities when you dig through the history of the black community and financial institutions. You see how much we were cut out on, how much we lost. And it answers to present day why a lot of people are still experiencing some of the things that we're experiencing. Yes, there are a lot of tools and resources, but sometimes that damage is so psychological. It's hard. There's no strategy for that. There's no one, two, three step guide for that. Sometimes it's so deep embedded. It's hard to just come out of it.

53:16Tori Dunlap:Well, and it's also the access to banks. You mentioned this right off the top when you're talking about check cashing institutions. There's not a lot of banks, especially in lower income communities. And if there are banks, they often charge overdraft fees. They charge account management fees. Right. So it's it's not surprising that a lot of black folks are either underbanked or unbanked people color generally. I think it's the last stat I saw is it's like 40 % of Americans that might be too high, but it was something crazy are either on or under banked, meaning that they're either not using the full, you know, banking power available to them that they could need or that they just don't have a bank account at all.

54:04Tori Dunlap:And, of course, to your point, it actively damages black and brown people's financial progress potentially by not being in a bank, by not being able to take a loan out by that general distrust. but it's also not surprising and totally valid when you when you realize the amount of racism but also like yeah the banks a lot of banks do charge you money and there's a reason why we recommend the ones that we do where they don't have fees and they don't have minimums because a lot of your day-to-day banks that you will go to that you can walk to or drive to those are the ones that are charging you fees to keep your money there yep and well i think a lot of people don't understand that it takes money to have a bank account to take advantage of some of the bank's resources, savings accounts, maintenance fees, entry fees.

54:56There are things that cost that a lot of people do not have. So sometimes they find it easier to use different type of non-traditional banking options. That's why I don't question. Although, I feel like my grandma, she's stuck you know, in her ways. But, you know, I love my grandma, but I don't question why she feels more safety not having all of her money, you know, in a bank. And another layer to that conversation, too, I had a conversation with my grandma because I no longer live in the same city with her, but I do try to help my grandma as much as I can financially. And I remember saying to my grandma, like, hey, you know, it would be easier if I just opened a bank account in our hometown and I just added you to it.

55:41I'll put money in the account every week. You can get whatever you need because that way you don't have to, if you need something, call me. If I'm unavailable, you can still get it. And I remember my grandma saying to me, well, no, I don't want you to do that because if you do that, they're going to cut off my social security benefits because they're going to consider that income. That broke my heart to see like, even after all my grandma has experience and all of the different things she's lived through, like still can't even take advantage of the full banking opportunities because then she's going to be forced to lose out on other benefits.

56:17So it's like when you see the history of our people in banks, it just, it gives way to why it looks the way that it looks so that it still looks today because the trust is just not there. And I think that a lot of banks have made strides. Yes, I'll give them that. But I think rebuilding their trust, that's probably going to be a lifelong journey.

56:42Tori Dunlap:Yeah, absolutely. And it's, again, a reminder of how much of this is either systemic or is, you know, the financial systems that exist that have nothing to do with our individual choices. Absolutely. Yep. This topic is actually another one we've done a deep dive on. You can check out our first episode with Tiffany Aliche. That's episode four. We're going all the way back to season one for both of these episode recommendations, where we talk about the minority appraisal crisis and more about this just trust in banks that Daisha talks about in this episode. When we come back from a word with our sponsors, we're finishing our conversation, talking about how women carry the expectation of taking care of their families, how to navigate that weight, and her candid thoughts on the idea of generational wealth.

57:23Tori Dunlap:Thank you for listening to the ads that help us make this show for free for you. We'll see you back here soon.

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59:37Tori Dunlap:So speaking of your grandma, actually, it's a perfect segue. You talked about the weight you feel carrying others around you, specifically family. And I think that's something that so many women resonate with. You started at the top of this episode talking about how women, especially Black women, there's so many expectations for you being the foundation and the caregiver and the rock of the family. How have you navigated that weight in the past, and how are you teaching others to carry that differently? So in the past for me, and I'm going to be completely honest and vulnerable. In the past for me, there was no strategy to carrying it.

1:00:19It was all rooted in burnout. It's like, even if I don't have it, even if I can't, I'm just going to do it because that's what the family requires of me. And that's just what it was. It was something that me being the oldest, and I always joke and I say that I was my dad's first son because I don't think he realized, I remember growing up like, dad hey I'm a girl so there's like certain conversations and certain ways that I want to be treated you're you're being with me a little different and I always say that because he positioned me in a way to take on so many responsibilities so by the time that I got older it was just normal it was what I thought you know was supposed to happen so a lot of it was rooted in just I'm just going to do it because that's what I'm supposed to do so I I wish that I had a strategy to say I navigated it differently in the beginning but I didn't that's just you know what it was for me.

1:01:10But as I got older and I started to realize like I needed to have a plan for this, one of the things that I do today that I think has been extremely beneficial for me is I am someone who believes in generational support. So with generational support in comparison to generational wealth means like I encourage my family that I'm just one person or even like the matriarchs in our family they're just one person it has to be an all hands on deck type of thing so you may not be able to do something for someone financially but maybe you can give somebody a ride to work that's not money exchanging but it's a way that you're helping them build wealth in a way indirectly that takes the financial burden off of someone else maybe you can help them revamp their resume no money is exchanging but you're still participating and enhancing the quality of their life.

1:02:07Maybe we have someone in the family, single mom, she wants to go back to school. So maybe we take turns watching the baby. So now she doesn't have to pay for child care or daycare. She can keep that money in the house, spending on formulas, wipes, whatever the case may be. But now we are all participating in generational support as a way of building generational wealth and taking some of the burden off of the one individuals. In most cases, it's the matriarch and the family where she's not having to do every single thing. So my approach to it now looks completely different than it did in the beginning because it's rooted in me making sure that it's all hands on deck regardless if it's not rooted in the financial part.

1:02:48Tori Dunlap:Yeah, I think a lot of people are talking about it, especially in this moment as like being a good villager, right? Like the village around you. So not just your family, but your neighbors and your friends of like, I think so many of us have gotten to the point where like, I don't know, asking someone to drive us to the airport feels like the most crazy inconvenience in the entire world. But it's like, this is how you be a good villager. This is how you be a good friend and a good family member. And yeah, if there's, it's not financial support or for whatever reason that makes you uncomfortable, there's a million other ways to offer that kind of support.

1:03:23Yes, I am really big, really big on that, especially because I have a lot of young cousins. And I look at the things that I would have needed when I was their age, conversations that would have helped me, especially now that I know more about finances at this age than I did back then. I'm always making sure I am doing something, planting a seed somewhere. It doesn't always have to be money and it doesn't always have to be a ton of labor. Sometimes it's a text. Sometimes it's sharing information. nation um but i do want to be someone like you said that is a good villager i want to give as much just as much as i as i get and i think if all of us had that mindset the village will look you know i'm saying very different and it wouldn't fall on the women in the family or the the first college you know graduate or the first person to be financially free it wouldn't fall on one individual if we all saw value and all the things that we can do regardless of what it looks like financially.

1:04:21Tori Dunlap:You believe, as I do, that traditional financial education and advice really does fail women. Can you talk about the common pillars of this advice and what you offer instead? So some of the things that I see a lot and I and I know we probably both can't stand this when it's like the old stop when it's like the old stop buying lattes or always like, oh, you're broke because you're not working hard enough or, oh, just budget better. Yep. When I say like, I feel myself turning into the hawk or something. I cringe when I see it because it's so unnecessary. I have no tolerance for it. It's so unnecessary and it's so outdated.

1:05:08So gendered. Yes. Yes. I think so much of what I do is just rooted in one. Everything is going to look different. for everybody. And it's not rooted in perfection. It doesn't have to be rooted in perfection to make progress. And I think like, there's no, for one, do we see the job market? Do you think I'm going to work all week and not buy a coffee? Do you think I'm going to go to work all week and deal with what we as women have to deal with in the workplace? And not get a little treat? or you know that's not gonna happen that's not gonna happen and I think what I am so what I am so conscious of with my platform is just validating our experience with women I just feel like that just can't take the the back seat when we talk about money and I think that it's just so important to have those conversations that center our real life experiences I think when we see men and i'm just gonna be honest talk about finances especially when they're trying to relate to women it's almost like it's like always some shit they like seen in a movie like it's so it's like yes it's it's like she has a shopping addiction don't go to the mall yes and it's what they think women are yes it's never the truth it's never the reality so it's so and it's like when we show up online and it's like we're having to fight a fight that should even exist because it's not real that is not what happens it's just not what happens so for me i think that it's just so important for me to always keep my experience my real life experience as a woman in the forefront of all of the financial conversations that we have online i i became a mom when i was 19 years old so i've been a mother at this point going on 17 years there's no way i'm ever going to tell a mom to like cut out certain things i know sis i know why you need that i know why i know why you are doing that so i understand why it makes sense to someone else it may seem like oh you're wasting money that money could be better spent doing xyz when it's like no when you consider the whole person the human that's standing in front of you and all of the factors that are surrounding her it makes sense why people do certain things while they need certain things, because it may seem like chaos to someone else, but to the other person, I feel like it is care.

1:07:36It's care for them. So I think for me, what's really different and what I always keep in mind is just my real experience with what it means to be a woman and all of those factors that usually, for most cases all the time, go unnoticed in the forefront when I'm talking about money.

1:07:51Tori Dunlap:Yeah. And the thing I always come back to, and again, anybody who's listened to the show before or read my book, this is old news to But like the men don't get the same advice. Like men are allowed to have hobbies. We're not allowed to have hobbies. And my not so conspiracy conspiracy theory is that we're told that in order to keep us broke and sad and not living our best lives so that we remain controllable. That's it. My final question for you. What is one or two small savings, spending, financial hacks or tricks? someone who's feeling stressed from being broke can implement today to start to move them towards a better financial future?

1:08:33Yeah. So I would say for one, if you are someone, because we talked about this a lot, if you are someone that is living paycheck to paycheck, you need to store with one non-negotiable savings bucket. That just, even if it's$5, even if it's a dollar that you have to manually move from one account to the next, pick one goal. It could be groceries, school clothes or rent cushion set it aside automatically i always say this is this is where we focus on giving every dollar a job even if that job is to just sit tight and be ready whenever you need it start there if you are someone who is climbing out of debt or you you're feeling like you are behind we talk a lot about debt management and debt strategy the something that i always recommend something you can do today is write your debts out by hand.

1:09:23The reason why I say do it by hand, physically writing down the lender, the balance, the interest rate, the payment, it makes it feel real because now you're seeing it in your own handwriting and it gives you back that control. So I feel like sending in your handwriting is a different kind of accountability. I would say next, if you are someone that is trying to build generational wealth on a low income, I know this is something that comes up a lot. I think let's start with things that are free. You know, think of the generation. If you have children, teach them what you know, no matter where you are, talk to them about everything and how you use your secure court.

1:10:04Maybe you only have a secure court with$200 on it. You may not think that's a lot. Well, talk to your kids about how they work, what the process of getting there, what they'll look like. It could be talking about couponing, Talk to them about sinking funds, like normalized planning and talking about money, not secrecy. I think we need to look at conversation as an inheritance. I really think that that is important. Like you may not be able to pass down millions of dollars to your children. You may not be able to pass down a huge investment portfolio. But conversation is the inheritance for most people.

1:10:39And that is priceless. That is priceless. I would say my last thing, because this was something that I had to work through a lot. If you were someone that is trying to heal from financial shame, trying to heal from, you know, your experience of being broke, give yourself some grace. Let's start there. And I am very big on getting my thoughts out of my head to some people that may look like writing in a money journal. For me, I don't for me. I like using the voice memo app on my phone. so I'll just throw the voice memo and I just start ranting. I just start talking, getting out whatever thoughts it is, whatever it is, I just get it out so that I don't have to sit with them, so that I don't have to sit with them.

1:11:20So definitely find you a safe space and that safe space, it may look like an online community or it may just look like you and your memo app. But start getting out some of those thoughts, that shame, that guilt. Start talking yourself through it.

1:11:33Tori Dunlap:I just, I cannot get over financial education as inheritance. I talk about that on the show but I've never had that language. Oh girl, that's so good. That's so good. I think that is so important. So sometimes that's all we got to give. And that's still valuable. I mean, that's what I got. Even though my parents have not passed away, that's what I got. Like, it's probably the biggest reason I do this show. I have the platform I do is because I was set on a path of good financial education. That's it. Such an impactful episode. So important. Everybody, I need you to share this with people in your life.

1:12:11Tori Dunlap:Maybe your daughter's struggling right now. Maybe your sister's struggling. Maybe there's a friend who you know texted you the other day and went, lulz, I'm so broke. It's time to send this to them. Plug away, my friend. You have a brand new book out. Please tell us where we can find it. Yes. So you can find me on social media at The Broke Black Girl across all platforms. My book came out this March. It's called Moving Beyond Broke, The Power of Perseverance and Personal Finance. You can find it at all places where books are available. I think that you all will love it. I walk you through. Yes, I walk you through my personal finance journey from beginning to present day.

1:12:49So you get to see what I was feeling, what I was experiencing, the lessons. And I wrote it in a way that it's like an entryway to my life. So my personal experience life because I wanted to humanize my experience with money and not be filled with a bunch of do this, do that. I wanted you to see a real person go through these ups and downs and then see me come out on the other side.

1:13:14Tori Dunlap:I love that so much. It's got the prettiest pink cover as well, so you can find it easily at your bookstore. Thank you for being here. Thank you for your advice and expertise. Thank you so much. Thank you for having me. Thank you so much to Daisha Kennedy for joining us. You can follow her at TheBrokeBlackGirl on Instagram, and you can also get her book, Moving Beyond Broke, wherever you get your books. As always, financial feminists, thank you for being here. Thank you for supporting our work. If you are not already subscribed, the vast majority of you listening aren't. And we love when you're decisive.

1:13:47Tori Dunlap:We love when you take action. We love when you sign up for your own financial life and you are committed to educating yourself about money. So hit that subscribe button wherever you're listening. It also is the easiest way to support what we're doing here. Thank you for your support of feminist media. Thank you for sharing and subscribing to the show. We'll see you back here very soon. Bye.

1:14:09Tori Dunlap:Thank you for listening to Financial Feminist, a Her First 100K podcast. For more information about Financial Feminist, Her First 100K, our guests, and episode show notes, visit FinancialFeministPodcast.com. If you're confused about your personal finances and you're wondering where to start, go to HerFirst100K.com slash quiz for a free personalized money plan. Financial Feminist is hosted by me, Tori Dunlap, produced by Kristen Fields and Tamisha Grant, Research by Sarah Shortino Audio and video engineering by Alyssa Midcalf Marketing and operations by Karina Patel And Amanda Lefieux Special thanks to our team at Her First 100K Kaitlyn Sprinkle, Masha Bakmikyeva Sasha Bonar, Ray Wong Elizabeth McCumber, Daryl Ann Ingman Shelby Duclos, Megan Walker And Jess Hawks Promotional graphics by Mary Stratton Photography by Sarah Wolfe And theme music by Jonah Cohen Sound A huge thanks to the entire Her First 100K community for supporting our show.

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