264. How to Reclaim Your Power (and Your Finances) After Everything Falls Apart with Jen Hatmaker

26:18Like, I don't know. So he gave me a list. He was like, I think that's when he realized, oh, geez, we're starting at the bottom of the mountain here with this one. So he gave me a list of tasks and he said, do all of this for 90 days and then come back to me. Then we might be ready to start talking about investments and your future. Like you got to get a handle on your present girl. And so all I remember from that season, it is such a fog of exhaustion and fear. was notarizing and scanning 7 million pieces of paper to get all my stuff in order. Getting every bill put back in my name. Everything needed in notary.

27:06Like, you're off the account, I'm on. Close this account, open a new one. Pick out the right credit card, put it in your name only. Refinance your house. You've got to get this mortgage in your name only. Like, go through every single auto draft, auto deposit, Everything has to be canceled. Everything has to be redone. New accounts, new passwords. I swear to God, I have never worked so hard in all my life to get all of that wrangled. But once I did, because I mean, obviously, you know this, this is the sermon you preach. This is all knowable and it's all doable. All of it. It is all manageable.

27:49It is all handleable. Literally every single bit of it. Once I got to that finish line of my list that was never, it just kept growing. Of all the things, when people ask me a lot, I'm in interviews right now a lot for the book. They're like, what are you the proudest of? I'm like, I think I might be proudest of the money. and how deeply committed I became to being absolutely financially literate, responsible. I just decided to become a financial assassin. And I have, like I have, my shit's on lock now. And I am so aware of where every penny is, where it is going. how I am moving it around, what it's going to look like in five years, what it's going to look like in 10 years.

28:44And when I think that five years ago, I was just like, I don't know what our debt is. I mean, it is a big reversal in my life. And so what I want women to know is I promise you, you could not have been dumber than I was about your money. And so if I can do this, anybody can. Anybody can. And it's not just because I have a career that's, you know, stable or that is able to provide for me, no matter like what your amount is, you can still drive your own financial car and tell your money where it's going. Like, anyway, what a, the amount of security and comfort that it has given me to, to bring this out of the murky, foggy darkness into like the absolute light of day.

29:37here it is. Here are the numbers. Here are the things here. I can't even quantify it actually.

29:46Financial Feminist Host:I always cry. I'm just, I hope you're proud of yourself. Like all of that is what I want every single woman to feel. Two things. One is that so many people tell me, I don't look at my money because it stresses me out. And we call it the ostrich effect in my work, which you bury your head in the sand. You act like your problems don't exist because they think I'm not going to look at my money because it stresses me out. The stressful thing is actually living in the dark. You're not stressed because of money. You're stressed because you have no idea what's going on with your money. So the exact coping mechanism you have of I'm not going to look at it is the actual thing that's causing you stress.

30:34Financial Feminist Host:And the metaphor I like to use is it's like getting in a car without knowing how much gas is in there. And you're just driving, right? And you're just raw dog in life, just being like, I could break down at any time at 2am without cell reception on the side of the road with nobody to help me. That's the thing that's stressful. Not the, I might not be able to afford that. At least, you know, it's a more stressful trying to live your life wondering, could the car break down at any moment? Could I careen off a cliff at any moment? And the other part that I think is so powerful about your story is that I tell women all the time, you have two ways of looking at your money.

31:13Financial Feminist Host:Either, oh my God, it's all me. Like I have to make every fucking decision and I'm in complete control. And that's terrifying because what if I screw up? What if I don't know enough? What if I, you know, say something stupid in a meeting with a financial advisor. And the other version of this is it's all me. Like I get to call all the shots. I get to validate and grow my own strength in this. And the fact that you got to the end of these 90 days and like you just said, I'm a financial assassin, right? And you can hear it in your voice that you're like, I don't take shit from anybody. I know what's going on.

31:50Financial Feminist Host:I'm in complete control of my money rather than money controlling me. That's the power, not oh shit it's all me it's like yeah it's all me here we fucking go i cannot agree more god i cannot agree more that is the truest statement the the the huge question mark over it all was the source of so much anxiety like where's it all going is it is there going to be do we have less than 15 years. Right. Like hoping that somehow it all just like sorts itself out behind my back without my like visibility or investment is so insane. And so it's actually such a relief to have the knowledge. And even if you go, oh, wow, I'm not in as decent a place as I wanted to be, or as I thought I was, even that is still a relief because now you know what to do.

32:51Now, you know how to steer your money and how to budget. And I have to still toggle that quite a bit. I mean, I have spent several months this year going, my income has shifted, has downshifted seasonally for a couple of reasons and probably not long-term, but in the short term. Therefore, I need to change my metrics. I, I, so, but I know that because I'm paying attention. And so I dropped several things down. I'm like, let's lower the temperature and all these categories for a few months until this rebounds until this comes through or whatever. Um, and just the fact that I knew that was happening and all of a sudden I wasn't looking at my bank account in shock or confusion.

33:37I just feel like we can handle anything. I think we can handle anything. Um, as long as we know about it.

33:43Financial Feminist Host:Can I ask you a very vulnerable question? Sure. You could tell me no. I hear a lot from women that the moment it gets financially real to them, so the moment they're sitting in the financial advisor's office and they rattle off a bunch of things, that they feel extremely stupid and very small and that they just collapse in on themselves. Yeah. How did you not allow that to happen and instead, yeah, pull yourself together in the car after sobbing, but decide that was going to be an inflection point and an action point, not a, I'm going to continue to ignore it and I don't want to feel stupid. So I'm not going to do this.

34:24Yeah. God, that feeling of humiliation is so real.

34:28Financial Feminist Host:Yeah. That's the word it is. It's humiliation. It's shame. It's guilt. Why didn't I do this before? That is the number one thing I'm fighting in my work is that shame and humiliation. Like, why didn't I know this? Why do I, why am I so stupid? Why am I failing? I don't have anybody to turn to. Yeah. Yeah. God, I went through all of that. And the shame was so enhanced for me because hell I've spent 15 or 20 years sort of coaching women toward toward like wholeheartedness and even independence and autonomy over their own stories. And then here I have this entire really important category that I have absolutely neglected.

35:24And so the humiliation of that was real. I don't, I don't want to give myself too much credit because at least in my case, I didn't have the luxury of going, I'm just not going to face this because I'm too embarrassed. I had to, I was divorcing. I, I had to, I had to sort out my bills. I had to sort out my bank accounts. I had to refinance my house. Like there was no option, um, to continue to just, you know, shut that drawer. But then I also, I think I also want women to know that it's very self-propelling. It may feel super overwhelming at the beginning. Not may, it will. It did to me at least.

36:11Very overwhelming. The mountain was so tall. The task list was so endless. Like I had 50 tabs open on my laptop every single day, just trying to get it all sorted out. But once you knock off those first couple of financial tasks and you go, okay, all right, all right, I done. I did that. It's finished. It's handled. Then that ball starts rolling downhill. Like some of the fear and unknown and anxiety just kind of gets taken out of the room at that point when you kind of go, this is knowable. It's kind of a pain in the ass and it takes time. Like this is going to take hours and hours and hours and hours and hours of your life, of course, but it is doable.

37:03And then the other thing that I found out really quickly is that, and you are such a prime example of this, you have helpers. There are so many incredible helpers in this world right now going, let me hold your hand. I will teach you everything I know. I'll help you. I'll sit by you. I will advise you. I will mentor you. My bankers, my wealth planner, my online accounts like yours that I followed going, check. Okay. Good questions to ask. The books, the resources, no one's actually alone. So if you feel alone, that's actually not true. You don't have to be at all. There is a host of experts willing to walk ordinary people through their own financial literate path.

37:58Thank you for doing that. I'm so serious. Thank you. I'm not joking. Voices like yours, yours exactly, and others who joined you for me in 2020, 2021, it was like you held up a flashlight for me on the darkest path where I'm like, I don't know what's, I don't know how to even take a step forward. And I am so grateful that you bring your expertise to bear to the world. And you say, I'm here to help you because you do, and it matters. And I'm sitting here is living proof. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, God. Thank you. That is so nice. Because that's how I feel about you. That's so nice. Thank you.

38:52It's not I'm not even being nice. No, I know. Serious. I felt like you and the other people like you who willingly offered your knowledge and your expertise to people like me. You were my best friends in that boat. And you didn't even know me. And you helped me row that boat to shore. And I am just, I'll just never get over it. I'll never get over how grateful I am at the opportunity to learn from you. And you've made my life better, just period. Wow, wow.

39:28Financial Feminist Host:That is, thank you. Thank you. Thank you. That is this feeling. I can't get through this without like sobbing. That is the feeling I want for every single woman on the planet. Like period. That is the feeling I want of ownership and of self-reliance and not the self-reliance that's like, I don't need anybody or I don't need help. But the self-reliance that's wise enough to say, I don't know this and it's going to be really tough to learn it. but I'm brave enough to do it. Totally. Totally. And everybody can. Yep. So my question for you that I was going to ask next, but it's kind of perfect, is like, what did taking ownership of your money look like for every other part of your life?

40:21Financial Feminist Host:Totally. How has your life changed, your career, your relationships, maybe even your faith? Like, what does your life look like now that you can say, yeah, I am in control of my money? It's hard to think of a piece of my life it hasn't touched, it hasn't altered. I think, for me, it like goes down to the foundational impact that taking control of my own money had on me, which was in a season of my life where I had felt, and I was so betrayed, my entire life was absolutely dismantled. And that introduced so much like fear and loneliness and insecurity into my story. Taking control of my money, which was really the first big mountain I climbed.

41:22I was still slogging it out in therapy on my heartbreak, but the money was my, was my big sort of first leg of the race. And what it, what it, the way that it impacted me was that it gave me a sense of safety. And I had, I had up to that point felt so unsafe in my life. I had been harmed and everything felt out of my control. Other people were making choices that were dismantling my life piece by piece. And so I felt afraid. I felt unstable. And so that financial independence and knowledge and agency helped me feel safe and stable. There is no way to explain how much feeling safe and stable translated to every other category.

42:29Because all of a sudden I could exhale and go, okay, if I am trustworthy with my own money, then I can maybe also be trustworthy with my healing process. I might be able to be trustworthy in my other relationships. I may be able to be trusted to be the author of my future all by myself. And it introduced a confidence into my life when my confidence had been shattered, absolutely shattered. And so I feel like it was the springboard that sent me leaping through the next 10 categories.

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45:42Financial Feminist Host:What is the cost of a woman listening, ignoring or not building her own self-trust? Oh my God. I could talk about this for a thousand years. Me too. There's a reason that we don't. So first of all, I have so much compassion for so many women who have kind of outsourced all of that autonomy and spent their lives kind of in backbreaking service to everyone else around them. I know that that comes from a good place. I do. I know that that is at the deepest heart of it. Well intentioned. That is how women tend to operate in the world, which is everybody else around me is more important than me. I love everybody else around me so very much that I will, I will sacrifice whatever it is that is mine in order for them to flourish.

46:56Like, well, and it means being a good girl.

46:58Financial Feminist Host:That's what a good woman is. Absolutely. The good girl playbook. Selfless to a fault. Selfless. Don't want, don't desire, don't need anything. Give everything of yourself away to everybody else. Everything. and whatever you need is paramount. And if what I have to do to make sure you get what you need or want is just full self-erasure, then I'll do that. I mean, I know for me, growing up, both in my generation and sort of in the religious environment that I was raised in, the banner over girls was selflessness. That was our North Star. And I mean, if you caught a whiff of selfishness, boy, the kickback was fast and furious and predictable.

47:52I swear to God, I'm 51 years old. To this day, I will sometimes say something out loud that I mean with my full chest. And it is true and good and right. And I will still catch a little whisper in my brain of, that sounds selfish. that you said the word me one too many times in that sentence, the rot is set on that mindset for sure. And it takes intentional work to reverse that. But there is a cost to living like that. And so when we decide that we don't want anybody else around us to ever pay their own cost, We will pay it for them. Whatever it is you want, we'll fund it. Whatever it is you've already done, we'll help mitigate the consequences.

48:44Whatever it is you want, we will bend over backwards to make it happen. There is a cost, but the cost is to you. The cost is to your soul. The cost is to your future. And frankly, the cost is to your greatest and highest good, what you could be bringing to this world instead of all that codependency. Like we are better than that. I'll tell you that right now. We have more to offer than our codependent behavior on everybody else around us. And so it's not just us who suffers. Frankly, it's everyone else too. When they're getting that limited version of who we are. Here's what I know about women.

49:20Cause you know, the, the, the trope around this is, Oh God, here come these feminists, just me, me, me. I, I, I, you know, like all they're going to care about is themselves all they're going to whatever that all is but here's what i know about women having led them for over 20 years having been deeply embedded in 99 female community what women want that heinous idea is almost universally so good for the world. We want good things. We want goodness for each other. We want good. We want incredible flourishing for our families and our neighbors. We want justice. We want equality. We want, we want a world that is fair and good and right and true.

50:17We want good things. So yes, fuck, let us have what we want. If women start getting what they want, y 'all are all gonna benefit from it. And so in my lifetime, I would love to see more women get what they want. Because I think that is gonna be one of the primary cures to all that is ailing this like failing culture right now.

50:45Financial Feminist Host:Yeah, I always say that nothing bad happens when women have money. and it's because of everything you just said like we want to feel seen we want others to feel seen we're more generous we are more empathetic we're more socially and self-aware responsible yeah and I think you know you said 99 the one percent of women and we've all met one or many right that don't seem to be girls girls and like don't and the only reason they're not is because they have been fed the narrative that that's how they get ahead that's the only reason they're not of course like that's it and so really everybody's a girl it's just like that's the it's the narrative that we all have to compete against each other in order to have that one seat at the table i want to build my own table i'm fucking tired of only wanting having one seat i love those tables I sit at those tables.

51:43I build those tables. And by and large, my experience of women is exactly that. It is beautiful. It is inclusive. It is not ruled by scarcity. It is generous in nature. I mean, when you even just look at the money piece, like you mentioned, I mean, obviously you talk about this to your community, but you can just look globally at what happens. Just look at the data. I don't care if you could have a black dead heart. You do not have to care about equality or any. Fine. Have hate in your heart. Just look at the data. Yeah. At what happens when women have money and access to money. Yeah. The GDP rises in that country.

52:27Violence goes down. The whole, the whole country flourishes. Education goes up. Like birth rates go down. It is incredible to see what happens when women get what they want. It is incredible.

52:42Financial Feminist Host:This is not something I talk about a lot, but I had to ask you. I grew up Catholic. I went to 18 years of Catholic school. And I was a church every single Sunday, sometimes multiple times a week because I'd go at school and then I'd go with my family on Sundays. And I got confirmed. I did the whole thing in college. I chose a Catholic college to go to. And then when I graduated college and started, I mean, I graduated college in 2016. So I should tell you a lot about where my head was, where I was 22 and coming into an America with what I thought was our first female president. And of course, that's not what happened.

53:24Financial Feminist Host:What a year. God. What a year. And so I was just having a lot of conversations, a lot of internal deciding of who I was and what I stood for. And as I became more and more feminist and more and more radicalized, there was so many parts of my life and identity that were direct odds with the religion I grew up in and the one I was still practicing. and so I don't think I've gone to mass since 2018 yeah and that has been a really both like difficult but also so easy decision for me easy to the point where it's actually kind of nerve-wracking or like suspicious because I'm like if this was such a deep part of your life like I once calculated like how much time had I spent in church over my life up to that point it It was a phenomenally high number.

54:22Financial Feminist Host:And the fact that I could let it go actually pretty easy, that wracked me even more. I know that you have and I think are still going through this kind of deconstruction of religion, of faith. What role is God playing in your life right now? It's all very familiar what you're saying. I had a feeling it would be. Yeah. And there's a lot of us here. Like you could kind of swap out the denomination or the faith tradition and the structures are similar. We kind of grew up in a similar worldview, similar limitations. any sort of high control religious environment yeah is kind of a ubiquitous experience that a lot and i will say my parents although practicing catholics were the a la carte catholics like yeah pro gay rights pro women's rights like it was not a conservative kind of viewpoint but But just the act of being, and I love that for me too, but also just the act of being in a Catholic church, even if my own church in the Pacific Northwest did not subscribe, it was still the Capital C Church doing all kinds of harm.

55:55Oh my God. I was just on a couple of hours ago with Anne Lamott, and I literally just told her, my personal parents. My earthly parents were actually loose and fun and not rigid. And my dad was kind of, he was sort of a type of pastor, but a very rogue one. And so it was so interesting for me because not unlike what you just said, my actual home was permissive and highly loving and functional. But the system that I was at, the church that I went to was not. so the pastor on Sundays the youth pastor on Tuesdays Wednesdays you know I would church all the time I mean I've been I've been to church I have been to enough church for like 700 grown adults put together so I am over churched and then I married the very first youth pastor that walked in front of my face um because that was a that was a very prescriptive path for me marry young you know because otherwise how are you gonna have sex because i grew up in purity culture so we weren't allowed to that wasn't allowed so i signed a chastity card when i was 15 yep god bless so did i i mean i didn't live by it but i signed it i didn't either don't know where she is yes god i never knew her i never knew her but but i did i maybe didn't keep the the pledge but I certainly kept the shame.

57:34And I kept that message landed. And then I've been in some form or function of ministry for a lot of my adult life. That was sort of my comeuppance through my career was an evangelical subculture. And I've obviously migrated far away from that at this point in my life as my faith has evolved and I've just evolved as a person and politically and ideologically, I don't have anything in common with that community anymore. And the breach is too, the chasm is too wide. It's too wide. Yeah. It's too wide. But I mean, even as I lost my marriage and the church that I'd helped found here in Austin was very progressive, you know, a very liberal church, very all-inclusive, all the ideologies that I have grown to like cherish and care about.

58:22When I went back after my divorce, and remember I'm a founder there, So I can't just be there as a person. You know, I'm just not that. You're a figurehead. I just, I just sat there triggered the whole time by everything. Every word spoken, every sentence, every sermon, every song, what felt performative to me, what felt unsafe or untrue. And then I was bearing like this, the weight of everybody else's shock and sadness about my divorce. We were their pastors. and their pity, which was even worse. And I just couldn't do it. And I thought, I don't want to be here. I don't, this is not serving my, if I, I have faith still, but this is not serving it.

59:10This is an enemy to any sort of nurturing faith that exists in my heart at all. And so I was like, well, I am not going to be here simply because I feel like I have to. That is not who I am anymore because see our entire previous conversation. And I haven't been back to church. So it's been almost five years. And church for me right now looks like CBS Sunday mornings with Jane Pauly. Never miss it.

59:41Financial Feminist Host:The minute at the end of nature and quiet. That's church. I have my coffee. I have my blanket. I have Jane. I sit on my porch swing with a book and I have brunch with my people and that feels holy to me and that feels sacred. And I feel still loved and held by however you want to think about God, whatever, however you want to name God or think about how God finds us and we find God. I, the path to divinity to me has a thousand roads and I bless them all. And so right now my path is Jane porch swing and coffee. And that feels like enough. That feels like enough for me right now. I don't know if I'll ever go back to church.

1:00:31I'm not sure. I just don't know.

1:00:32Financial Feminist Host:Yeah. That's how I feel. I mean, I'm yeah, it's almost, I guess, 10 years or eight years and I don't miss it. Yeah. Which tells me a lot. I don't either. If it's not, if it wasn't doing anything for me, there's a million other things to do it for me. Church wasn't really it. And there's a million other things to do it for you in a faith context. Like if what you're wanting to nurture is your soul and your spirit, if you are wanting to increase the capacity that you have to love your neighbor and to be generous and good and true and kind and loyal. There are so many ways to really like serve that part of your heart that doesn't necessarily involve sitting in a pew.

1:01:25And so go find it. If it's a walk out in the woods, that's your church. If it's pulling up a beach chair and watching the waves come in, that is your church. like if it is sitting around a brunch table with the people that you love most in the world and giving each other the gift of time and presence and energy and love that's church so the definition for me is quite wide the organized religion part for me feels unsafe and not healthy at this moment and i don't know how to separate myself from the version of it that is like Christian nationalism that, I mean, I know how to separate myself from it, but that whole thing is just so painful to bear witness to and to feel even associated in an ancillary way that I just know I cannot, I got to be as far as the East from the West from that right now.

1:02:24Financial Feminist Host:Yeah. Well, and I've heard it said too, for anybody listening who is not even spiritual, like doesn't believe in God or doesn't believe in a higher power. It's just like, what connects you with other people? What connects you to love? Um, right. A couple of years ago, when I saw Liz Gilbert speak, she called it like love in the room. Like, how do you be love in the room today? And some people might call that God. Some people just might be, yeah. How do I be the best kindest, like you said, loyal, generous, brave person I can. For me, that's like nothing beats going to live music or like to see theater because that's my background.

1:03:01Financial Feminist Host:And so like, I just, that is church. That's church. Oh, that like group emotion that like you're sharing with all those people in the room, that moment in time, like art is love. Art and the experience of art collectively is absolutely of a church. And so I didn't know your background was theater, like musical theater. Major in theater. yeah yeah but I got a degree in straight theater but have been in musicals and doing theater since I was five or six and then singing before I could talk played the piano when I was five so like that's my love I've seen Leslie Odom Jr. like three different times four and that's oh there is no better church than that man's voice like that's the perfect example no take my money oh every time I've seen him I'm just oh it's just yeah that's church he is a he's incredible I love so good there I just and I love concert I love I love everything you're saying right now I'm feeling warm in my heart just thinking like about the last five experiences I had in a room like that yeah with art in front of us yeah beautiful yeah counts I could literally talk to you for so long.

1:04:15Financial Feminist Host:But my final question for you, for people listening who are standing in the middle of an upheaval, divorce, loss of faith, shifting roles, a full identity crisis, what is one piece of encouragement you'd want them to take away from your story? God, you just described almost everyone I know. you know at almost all points of life are we going through transition change or loss just pick a category and if you haven't gotten to it just live longer you will get there yeah um and so i i hope that what people walk away with when they read awake is that genuinely, I mean this as sincerely, this is as earnest as baby Jesus in the manger.

1:05:14No matter what you have lost, however precious it is, however shattered you are, I mean, it could just be the worst thing that you've ever thought of. Even then, your capacity to heal, to mend, to reinvent, to recover is so expansive. I am telling you, because I am not special. I am just a person. I'm just a person like everybody else. Literally. I do not have some special capacity. I don't have anything that's like super out of the ordinary. and I am telling you that even then, I believe that our best days can still be in front of us. It stunned me to discover there was a minute that I thought my life was so ruined and everything I ever wanted and hoped for and built and dreamed of was gone in an instant.

1:06:17And I could not get it back that I remember thinking, I'm never going to be happy again. And I said that and I meant it. I thought I'm really, I'll patch my life together enough to be functional, but I will never have a spark. I will never be happy. I will never have the spark of joy that I had before. I'll just muddle through. And so it was kind of a surprise to discover that I did more than just recover. I actually flourished. And I don't love the system, but sometimes disaster is the best thing that could ever happen to us. when it just rattles the cages so hard that we are forced to reckon with whatever stories we are telling ourselves, whatever narratives we are self-selecting, whatever truths we are avoiding, whatever peace we think we're keeping, which is actually at the expense of our own peace.

1:07:19When those things are no longer available to us and we're forced to go, all right, what's true? What's real? And then finally, what do I want? every one of us has that in front of us. And the good news is I don't think anyone has to wait for a catastrophe to live like that. I actually think you can live wide awake because you choose to right now in the light of day, like you don't have to wait for a crisis. And I hope that is what everyone chooses that they go even right here in this moment of like health and wellness that I'm experiencing, I still want to figure out how to be like wide awake in every category.

1:07:59So that would thrill me if that is what readers walk away with in their own stories.

1:08:05Financial Feminist Host:Thank you for your work. Thank you for your words. I have a copy on my bookshelf. I am so excited to read it. Please plug away my friend. Tell me where people can find your book. Thank you. It's everywhere. it's wherever you get your book if you have an indie store that you love we love to see an indie store get a little love from its readers it's basically on every single platform and and i'm i'm so honored to put it in the hands of its readers i can't you know once you write a book and you you hand it off it becomes something new it becomes something new in the hands and the lives of its readers and that's where it lives now.

1:08:49And so I'm like a kid on Christmas morning, like watching like this, just seeing what it's becoming like in all these lives. It's just stunning. So thank you for having me on. Thank you again for all that you've meant to me and the ways in which you have taught me and led me and encouraged me unbeknownst to you as I was rebuilding a financial stable life. And for all that you do for women, I, it just, it's, this is going to have generational impact. And so I'm really proud of you and really glad to have spent this hour with you for sure.

1:09:24Financial Feminist Host:Thank you. Thank you. You're welcome. Right back at you. And the book's called Awake and Oh Boy, Aren't You? So I'm so excited to read it. Thank you. Thank you so much to Jen for joining us and for her just remarkably kind words. You You can get her newest book, Awake, a memoir, wherever you get your books. I'm so excited to read my copy and I'm so hopeful that this episode, her story and our work continue to inspire you and continue to, I was going to say force you, but sure, force you to get honest about your money and about your life and realizing that you are in control. You get to call the shots and everything changes in your life when you know what's going on with your money.

1:10:10Financial Feminist Host:So if this is important to you, if you know that this episode would touch somebody else and give them the wake up call they need, I would appreciate you sharing the episode. Thank you so much for being here, Financial Feminists. Thank you for your support of our work and we'll see you back here soon. Bye. Thank you for listening to Financial Feminists produced by Her First 100K. If you love this show and want to keep supporting feminist media, please subscribe or follow us on your preferred podcasting platform or on YouTube. Your support helps us continue to bring this content to you for free.

1:10:39Financial Feminist Host:If you're looking for resources, tools, and education, including all of the resources mentioned in this episode, head to herfirst100k.com slash sspod.

1:11:09like I did, and have one of your assistant's assistants switch you to Mint Mobile today. I'm told it's super easy to do at mintmobile.com slash switch.

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