265. How to Make a Career Pause Work for You — Not Against You (with Neha Ruch)

24:20Because that was the gift of my power pause was this idea that suddenly the track that I thought I was on was more open. It was like a playing field. And I got to explore and test and learn a little bit. I'd already checked the ego at the door because I was suddenly a stay-at-home mom. So like, might as well start that little blog. And, you know, I think allowing ourselves to have a little fun with it is exciting.

24:45Financial Feminist Host:I know I keep comparing this to running a business, but it's the only, I am not a parent. That's the thing that I keep thinking of. Yeah, it is my baby in many ways. But one of the things that's been so difficult as a CEO is nobody says attaboy. Like I don't have a boss, right? I don't have a boss to be like, hey, that was a really good social media post or, hey, this converted really well. I have to get that internally. And I think that that is probably, if I were to relate my experience, one of the most difficult things about being a parent and specifically a mom is you don't have a boss or somebody above you or even co-workers to say, hey, you made it to school pick up on time, even though it was really hard.

25:26Financial Feminist Host:Nice job. How do we add a boy ourselves? Like, how do we find validation in this work that society devalues, that often we devalue ourselves because of all of the narratives? How do we keep validating the work that we're doing in a society that does not validate it at all? Oh, that's good. I think there's this one exercise that keeps coming up for me as you're speaking. I did it during my pause and I still do it now. open an iPhone note or Google doc and write like every time you feel proud of yourself, don't let that moment go by. Right. Or, or even when your interests feel sparked, right. Or you had a really deep conversation or you listened to something that made you like linger a little bit, not because all those dots are going to immediately make sense, but because when you look back at the end of six months or a year, you can start to extract themes.

26:25So as a parent or a woman in a career shift or career transition, you might glean from it, wow, like I'm really interested in family policy or I'm really good at project management. I didn't even realize that about myself. Like who knew I cultivated that skill or wow, like I have really made an impact in our community. I didn't realize how many parents or community members I was interacting with, whether I was like, you know, dealing with like getting better parking at the, in front of our apartment building or, you know, managing a big set, whatever that is, you're suddenly triangulating through yourself this like high file of, I'm really good at a lot of things that went unnoticed in the background of the ordinary day that is like actually quite extraordinary.

27:14And I think in parenthood, like being a founder, a lot of it, is minutiae and it can get lost in that. Like the day-to-day can get lost in that until you step out and take notice a little by little of, of the ways in which you're developing and the ways you're impacting. Because at some point for the woman who is ready to return, she needs to be able to package that all up. Right. And, you know, you write career pause for family life or career sabbatical for family life. Well, once you have those bullets, then you just think, wait a second, that time that I was like on the family education forum for school, I implemented like a highly publicized community engagement program.

28:03That's what I actually did. And suddenly that's, that becomes much more confidence boosting to move yourself forward into the next space.

28:13Financial Feminist Host:You are mentioning something I wanted to talk about anyway. So I think this is the perfect time. How do I position a power pause on my resume? How do I position a power pause in an interview? I know as somebody who now hires people, I'm seeing more and more of this, which I fucking love of women who are like saying, oh, for these four years, I, you know, managed my household. I got everybody to school, pick up on it. Like it was, it's so great to see that. So how do we position that in an authentic but also effective way if we do choose to go back to the workforce? I think a big part of it is owning it with clarity.

28:55We interviewed a number of women who were navigating the stage and oftentimes recruiters will say it's much better to call out why you took that career break and say it was for family life. It was for an international relocation. It was for elder care so that the question marks are taken care of. And so my answer to people will often say, it doesn't make sense to write career pause on my resume. And I'll say, yes, and yes.

29:20Financial Feminist Host:And you want to give careful time to all of the sub bullets that go under there. Because oftentimes when you're parsing through that iPhone note or your Google Doc, there are applicable pieces. I always use this example of a woman down in North Carolina. She had her Google Doc. And when she was looking back, she saw this time that she had reorganized the bus route for her kids pickup because they just weren't getting picked up on time. And when she was looking back, it did two things. One, it made her think, wow, I like I'm actually really interested in project management. I'm going to start gearing my search that way.

29:58I'm going to take an online certification and double down on that direction. but it also offered her a really compelling bullet. She wrote, instead of like reorganize my kid's bus route, she wrote implemented highly technical infrastructure change to local organization. And that's what happens. That's like the actual awe-inspiring work of parenthood. But oftentimes you need to take that time to reflect on the advocacy, the research, the planning, the family operations that were happening in that day-to-day. The part two, though, is give yourself at least a year on transitioning back and think about ways in which to brush up, whether that be online certifications, whether that be advising or helping a friend on their business.

30:47Use small opportunities in the school or whatever environment is local to you to just build up those relevant supplements. And ideally, in a lot of the work of the book, is sort of charting out ways you're sort of doing that over the course of the years that you've been on pause. But if you are just listening to this and you're just thinking, well, I want to return, give yourself that year to start to build that story back up.

31:13Financial Feminist Host:I think this is one of the ways AI could actually be really useful is you plug in everything you did and AI can spit out at you the official resume statement. Because I think it's often hard of like, how do I use corporate jargon to explain what I did? So I think that that can be really, really helpful. I would just add one thing on career portfolios. I want you to think of it as a career portfolio. That term was not introduced by me. It was a woman named April Rennie who wrote the book Flux. She's an operational organizational expert. And she basically said, we are moving towards a workplace that understands jungle gyms versus ladders, right?

31:49And when you're interviewing, look for the employers like you, Tori, who would value that, who would value that you might have taken a deviation and developed more experience that layers onto that portfolio and actually makes you a more whole, wise contributor.

32:08Financial Feminist Host:Yeah. Okay, I have to get into something that does not get talked about enough, especially in like the mom influencer post we see online. Okay, so when one partner steps back from earning income to raise kids, then the financial power in the relationship shifts. That can bring up everything from guilt to resentment to just this straight-up imbalance of power and ownership over money and finances. So how do we start to shift those power dynamics when one partner is holding the financial reins? We talked a lot about reframing ambition. I think tied very closely to that is reframing our idea of financial dignity.

32:56I think we, in grossly undervaluing care in this country, we've dumbed it down to diapers and laundry. Meanwhile, by the way,$231.1 million a year are spent on parenting books, 141.1 on parenting apps, because everyone is trying to do this immense work of raising this next generation. And yet we don't have a line in the GDP for the actual work that has to go into taking care of these children. This is a delicate and nuanced conversation. I want to start by saying, I think stay-at-home motherhood, we talked a bit about this in the beginning, but stay-at-home motherhood of the many myths that have surrounded it, we have assumed that it's a luxury.

33:40And the reality is that 60 % would cite financial considerations in making that choice because it's the best choice for their family at that season and because of the cost of shopping. When you realize that, it's not to say working out of the home is a luxury. It's to say that the privilege is to get to choose. And the reason that that's important is because when we say one side, quote unquote, is a luxury, we deem it of less value and we deem it worthy of less support. And I think stay-at-home mothers or women who step into a career break immediately step into this feeling of, well, it's a luxury that I get to do this.

34:24Instead of what we offer, which is two parents together are making an informed decision. And by the way, one in five stay home parents right now are dads. So, you know, gender aside, two parents, hopefully doing money meetings every year. That was something I was very grateful that my husband had started. He ran a tech company at the time. So he basically copied the P &L and applied it to our life very early. So we had income in, income out. And we sat down in January, every January and said, well, these are the budgets that align with our values. And when we had a child, it became glaringly obvious what the budget line item would look like for childcare.

35:11And by having an explicit dialogue, we could then have a really informed discussion around what are our values for right now? What do we both want? What do we both imagine for our life? And then we could think about, well, how can we move things around, right? Where would we shift from family vacations or dining out to allow us to make this shift, right? Like, you know, and the point was to say, we together were making a decision that benefited the entire household because I was not going to depend on him for the income. He was also going to depend on me for doing the care work that let him single task outside of the workforce, outside of the home.

36:01Being able to have an explicit conversation that we were an interdependent household, making a strategic choice for right now allowed me to feel like I am still financially dignified. I still have access to this household income because even if I'm not contributing in pay, I'm contributing. He could not have run to the Bay Area every time a new VC called if there wasn't a security blanket at home. And I was very clear about their contribution. I don't think every couple has that. immediate understanding. So if you as a couple are sitting down and the partner on the other side does not have that same immediate understanding of that mindset, slow down.

36:46Do not make this decision until both partners are on the same page. Bring in financial planners, bring in a relationship therapist until you do feel like you're on the same page. consider a postnuptial agreement, right? Like I think we don't talk about prenups and postnups a lot, but we enter contracts all the time in businesses. And that's just a way of making yourself feel safe and protected when whichever partner is stepping into, uh, into that shift. And, you know, I think the other piece, and you and I talked about this in the very beginning, allow yourselves a checkpoint to come back and re-examine, right?

37:25That way the partner who's continuing to work out of the home doesn't feel like this enormity of pressure forever. It's a decision you're going to make for whatever, you know, 18 months, two years. And if it is not financially available to you to take a full pause, consider all of those other options we talked about, right? Think about what you're optimizing for. If it's more time at home, could you consider a part-time role? If it's more headspace, could you consider moving off of certain projects or out of management duties. There's many ways to make room for family life. It doesn't have to be a full pause.

37:58Financial Feminist Host:I have good friends who, before they got married, I talked to them about their prenup. We had drinks in a bar in New York and we talked about it. And one of the things that was so incredible about their prenup was they decided if she steps back from her career to take care of children, he will compensate her. He will pay out from his salary to make sure that her retirement and accounts are still contributed to, that she has money to do the things that she needs to do. And it kind of inspired a post that ended up going viral that I made where I said, stay-at-home moms should receive a salary. It got a very spicy comment section, which of course it did.

38:39Financial Feminist Host:So should stay-at-home moms get a salary? And what would that look like? So the data says that if they were to get a salary, it would be$184 ,000 a year. Yep. That's the point I made as well. Yeah. Now that research is admittedly already dated, so it doesn't include inflation. Yep. That's from 2021. The challenge with that is that no one's paying that anytime soon. So I think the better, more solid, realistic path forward is that in your household, And you come up with a very clear set of parameters that work, that both of you feel like you are contributing and that your contributions are seen and respected.

39:30And if that's a line item in the money meeting, just to keep it like front and center, that works too. I think this conversation is so important, not just because of like, oh, I want to feel financially dignified. It's also we need to feel worthy of support. Because just because you have paused your paid work doesn't mean you don't deserve support. No one would be expected to work 24-7 without breaks. And I would argue now working out of the home much more. The work that I did in the home for those five years on full pause was demanding. It was physically demanding. It was emotionally demanding.

40:12It was complicated. It was nuanced. I didn't have as much breathing room. And so it was very important to be in a household in a dynamic where my workday was recognized such that then I could say we together are going to clean at the end of the day because my workday is over, your workday is over. like for, you know, we're going to split up the rest of the things and, or that when we thought about investing and I would suggest this to anyone, whether they work out of the home or in the home or exist in between any paid help, whether that's a cleaning person once a week, whether that's a mother's helper for 15 hours a week comes out of the joint household income.

40:55It's not out of the mom's salary. It's an investment in the whole household dynamic, right? And it empowers everyone to be rested and whole. But that's a big mindset shift in a culture that has grossly undervalued care. Yeah.

41:10Financial Feminist Host:I mean, the most common, let's call it disputing comment to my video was, well, we're a team. And as soon as I start paying her, it no longer becomes a team. And I think it's the same logic that people use for, I should completely combine finances with my partner because if not, then we're not a team. And if anybody's been listening to the show long enough, you know I call so much bullshit on that because you need to be financially protected. Now, I don't think I know anybody who is a non-compensated stay-at-home mom, working mom, who is making$180 ,000 a year, but who might, again, make sure that the money that's coming in is still contributed to her retirement accounts.

41:59Financial Feminist Host:or that this couple that I mentioned, one of the things that they negotiated is that because she's taking time off the workforce and she knows that she's going to come in and not make as much money, right? Her earning potential has shifted. That will be accommodated for and compensated. So I think to your point, there's these small things that you and your partner can determine works for both of you, where, yeah, there's that dignity, but there's also the protection of your money and of the growth of that money, even if you are not getting compensated for 18 plus years of work. And one thing on IRA, there is something called a spousal IRA, which is so important to like, in the laundry list of things that most people don't know, your partner should be contributing to that immediately.

42:53If one of you has taken a career pause, I think of one of the, there were so many examples of how couples prepared for their shift. One of them that was my favorite, and she happens to be an accountant, so she was well-versed in the topic. She started to put for six months her income, her paycheck into a separate savings account for herself. And it let her build up her savings and it let them trial what it looked like and felt like to live on one income. And so you can see how there's no one size fits all, but it is all about having the dialogue around value and making sure you feel safe and protected and that there's adequate amount of planning.

43:41Like they, you can see, you know, in their example, they plan for six months ahead of time.

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45:58Financial Feminist Host:You keep bringing up elder care as well, and I think that is something that again, our society deeply devalues because it's usually women doing it. Are there ways that an elder care pause is different from a maternity or a caregiving for children pause? Is it more socially accepted? How does that work in reality? It's interesting because people have said that the joy of taking care of aging is much less than the joy of taking care of of babies right which makes total sense it's life so literally life versus death right so there's there's there's that piece of transaction but i think sometimes when we think that work is done out of love and joy we think it has less value so by that i mean it we think of it as not work it's just something we do when we take care of kids right like but it is work like just because it's not as like torturous is that the idea of like caring for your early parents as you're watching them die yes caring for is you're struggling enough right like yeah yeah you've earned a little bit of like you are doing really hard work by doing that and that is like whereas like kids is just associated with like maternal, like because we do it out of love.

47:31Financial Feminist Host:It's a baked in requirement. It's a baked in requirement. And I think that that's, um, it's an, it's a tricky distinction because, you know, one is not harder than the other one is not, and one is not less time intensive than the other. One has historically gotten a little bit more scaffolding in the workplace than the other. I think elder care, but it, but it's the same tension, right? Which is that I have shifting. I have to make a complicated choice in my work dynamic to make room for other priorities. But it is interesting you bring that up because I've been noticing this trend of older gentlemen, like, you know, in their 56, 50s or so saying like, I'm taking a career sabbatical and everyone is so impressed by this career sabbatical.

48:25Financial Feminist Host:Oh, yes, of course. And yet, we take... But we have been taking career sabbaticals for other priorities, too. They'll talk about health, they'll talk about exploration, they'll talk about travel, and it... Well, it seems sexy when men do it. It's like, oh, it's exciting because it never happens. And, like, good for you taking time, right? Or good for you taking care of children or your ailing parents, but then it's just a requirement for women. I read this post the other day from a classmate from a different life. And it was this long thing about how, you know, in stepping away from work, it's really opened his perspective.

49:04It's really allowed him to experience people in a different way. His efficiency, his empathy. I was thinking, well, that's funny because that's how I feel about motherhood. But I've had to rebrand the whole thing to make people pay attention. Right. So, you know, I think we're dealing with all of those forces. Yeah.

49:22Financial Feminist Host:Yeah, it is interesting. Like, again, men take a break and it's like, because I'm coming back stronger and everybody's like, you're so right. And then when it's women, it's like, but there's no possible way you could manage your time with children. Like, there's no possible way you could be a good employee here. the double standard kills me one of the things I wrote down I don't know if you've seen these posts I usually joke it's a research paper and by research paper I mean I watched a TikTok but I've seen all these videos that um Europeans have a slightly different way of raising their children that there's less children-centered activities that you like bring your kids to or that you set up for your children and more that children just come with you while you do things and I think it's a really interesting difference and when we're talking about you know how do you protect your own time as a parent how do you protect your own development while also caregiving I think that can be an interesting shift have you seen this in reality of this like okay I'm gonna go run an errand or I'm gonna go meet with my friends and I'm bringing my kid along as opposed to this dedicated activity just for them?

50:37I think both and, right? Like I actually think some of the myths that surround these career pauses is that your network's gonna die, your interests are gonna die. But the reality is I met more interesting women at a baby group or in a play space or a playground just because they were in a shared stage of life by nature of where we lived. you know, they were also making complicated decisions about their work and family. You might talk about your diaper bag for 30 seconds, but then you very quickly move on to like, you know, what were you doing previously? What are you interested in? Are you taking a class right now?

51:17Are you thinking about going back to work? What's your relationship with like with your partner? Right? Like the conversations aren't limited to the baby just because they're happening in a baby group.

51:26Financial Feminist Host:Yeah. So I would say that I think your network and your interest can still expand even in traditionally play-centered or child-centered environments like a playground. That said, I do think that there is more dialogue around how can we integrate our children into our day-to-day. So yes, I do see a trend movement towards more grown-up spaces like restaurants and cafes becoming more accepting of bringing children along. And I think there's more dialogue around women deserving breaks and being able to invest time with their friends and make it, I think it's also just allowing ourselves to know that we have permission to invest in ourselves alongside our kids.

52:20So it's less about like the spaces it takes up and more to say that, yes, this chapter in our lives might have a focus of raising kids, but we're allowed to also raise ourselves too and make room for that, whether that's getting a babysitter for a handful of hours, whether that's dragging your kid along to like a networking event.

52:39Financial Feminist Host:When it's time to reenter the workforce, if someone decides that's what they want to do, what are the biggest mistakes you're seeing women make and how can they avoid them? A lot of the pitfalls surround deciding that they want to return and then expecting it to work the next day. Like, I think that we are surprised by how long it takes. And part of that is the economic forces and the current job market. And I think part of it is that we do have to approach our re-entry with strategic care, right? I think there's, you know, some of the best tips I can offer are look for stepping stones, right?

53:28So meaning look for the friend who needs help like five to 10 hours a week. Look for women-owned businesses, small to medium businesses tend to be more open to non-traditional work experience and fractional work, right? Because the best thing that I'm seeing right now is women pivot out of their posts, right? Like they decide to start work of meaning that affords them flexibility. And then they hire other women because they understand the capacity for efficiency and time management. There's also this piece where we're underprepared on the transition back in terms of childcare and support. The reality is just because it's freelance or flexible work doesn't mean you don't need support at home, right?

54:17There's no invisible magic time. And so I think allowing yourself some time, not just for the planning around reentry and what job am I returning to, but what's it going to feel like in my family? What's going to have to give? Like, I'm not going to be able to pick up my child children three days a week. So who is going to do that, right? There's sort of a recalibration around expectations in the home, expectations with your partner. And I think the last pitfall that I think we all fall into is discrediting the immense amount of experience we just gained, right? I think we overcompensate. We undersell when we walk in.

54:57We take on the sort of small way of like, we have to earn our stripes now that we're back. And the reality is that all of that amazing experience didn't evaporate. You just gained an incredible amount of perspective, leadership training, empathy, communication skills, organization, time efficiency. Do not discredit that. And I think humility is one thing, but being able to walk in and stay confident is another.

55:25Financial Feminist Host:My last question for you, what does a successful power pause look like? It's an openness to the ways in which you're going to grow, an ability to get intentional about how might I reserve a little bit of room to move myself forward professionally, personally, and in a way that feels aligned to my family values. how do I give myself permission to structure my days so that there's a little bit of room for me week over week how do I give myself permission to get the help I need whether it's from my partner or page so that I can invest in networking a little bit right and tapping into the relationships that surround us in all of these different non-traditional environments how can I pay attention during this time to what lights me up whether it's scrolling Instagram and just stopping a little bit where I notice that I'm getting excited or I want to dig deeper and allowing this to be a moment of real self-study because I think we don't get that chance to study ourselves and redefine what true success looks like.

56:29But I can promise you if you take that time, it'll serve you well.

56:33Financial Feminist Host:Your book has been all over my timeline. Everybody's been talking about it. I'm so excited to recommend it to everybody in my life who needs it. So plug away, my friend, tell us where we can find it. You can get the power pause wherever you love to get books, or you can subscribe to the newsletter at the power pause.com. And we have tremendous free resources like how to write a post up on the power. So important. I love it. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for listening to financial feminist produced by her first hundred K. If you love the show and want to keep supporting feminist media, please subscribe or follow us on your preferred podcasting platform or on YouTube.

57:11Financial Feminist Host:Your support helps us continue to bring this content to you for free. If you're looking for resources, tools, and education, including all of the resources mentioned in this episode, head to herfirst100k.com slash sspod.