297. What 5 Millionaire Women Know about Money (That You Don't)

17:54They're willing to do it.

17:55Financial Feminist:Yeah, Natasha, you're working with so many entrepreneurs. You and I have worked together for three years. Like, how do you see their behavior? Like, how is it different than the person who wants to be an entrepreneur or wants to scale a business? Yeah. Obsession keeps coming back into my mind lately as the phrase, it's so true that you do have to allow yourself to be obsessed and allow yourself to create an environment that allows you to be obsessed. So for example, a lot of people maybe don't have the most supportive spouse who's like, hey, it's time for us to hang out. Like, you know, maybe you should stop working as much, so on and so forth.

18:30And so for each relationship, that dynamic is a little bit different because you have to come to, you know, the right expectations together of, hey, what do I really want out of this relationship? Well, in seasons too. Absolutely. And so I think that people experience challenges around their life when they're crushing it in business because they haven't set the right expectations with the other people that they are in agreement with, right? Whether that's their husband or their kids or their family or friends or whatever it might be. And so I think being able to create the environment for yourself first is super important.

19:00Like you talked about confidence coming before the action. Absolutely. And I think it's confidence and environment paired together because you can very quickly allow your confidence to be killed by external factors. If you are in a friend group that's like, why are you starting your own business? Oh, I saw your little social media post, you know, like, okay, kind of cringy, whatever it might be. And so you really do have to create that, even though it's going to be very lonely initially, knowing that and having faith in the fact that it's going to allow you to become the person that then brings you the next circle of friends, the next circle of team members, whoever's going to support you in that to be able to do what you want to do, that you're going to find your people.

19:36So it's kind of that confidence, faith, and environment that all need to be together initially in order for you to have those right ingredients. But it really is obsession. Like we were talking earlier, you're talking about the volume of customers you're currently bringing in and the entire customer journey that has to exist. It really is all about volume. We were talking about how many emails that you're sending a day. We have clients that are doing$300 million a year. They send 20 emails a day. Like the volume, it becomes to the point where you're like, oh, what I'm doing is still the small game.

20:05And there's so many more levels to the game. But I think the most important part of it all is just deciding what do I actually want out of life? And not everybody wants to run a$300 million a year business. I mean, I know. I do. And it's super important to have that awareness. And my husband has really brought that for me because I'm very much a person who's like, let's do more, let's do more, let's do more. And I've realized that that's not for everybody. And it's most important to know that because if you go on a social media, you allow yourself to be brainwashed by too many different people.

20:34And all of a sudden you feel conflicted with yourself, but you haven't spent enough time with yourself to know what you want. Right. So it's like the most important thing is the confidence, the faith, the environment and like starting to bring awareness to what you want. And in order to do that, you need white space. Yeah. To allow that for yourself.

20:49Financial Feminist:One of the things I struggled with a couple years ago that I imagine every single one of us has struggled with, I have this feeling of ambition. Like, I want everybody to know my name, and I want to sell out stadiums, and I want to write a million books that are bestsellers, and I want all of that. And then at the same time, I want a cabin in the woods where nobody knows my name, and I adopt a bunch of dogs, and I do puzzles. And for me, it was really hard to see. I would swing back and forth. It was a pendulum for me for a very long time. It was like, oh, really intense. And then it was like, I want nothing to do with this.

21:21Financial Feminist:And for me, I finally found the space where it was seasons. It was like predicting there are times where I will push and I will do that intentionally. And there are times where I will pause. So let's discuss ambition versus, yeah, cabin in the woods or whatever that looks like to you. The balance is a myth. But like, how do you find the balance of those two things? I think past$5 million a year, maybe even past$1 million a year, life doesn't look that much different whether you're at$5 or$10 million a year. Your overhead can increase and different things can change. But as far as lifestyle, being able to order whatever you want off the menu or afford some of the luxuries in life, it doesn't change that drastically versus maybe$300 million.

22:04But there's levels to this. And I think the self-awareness to know what you're aiming at is so important because the top of every mountain is just the bottom of another. like I remember going to my first 100k was the hardest then the first million even harder than that and then after a million the leverage changes and so it becomes a lot easier to make money it does it really does you know and then so being able to know where we want in the spectrum is great because once you get to the top you're like I'm crushing it 10 million a year but then you are around a different caliber of person that's doing 25 plus and then I'm like oh I feel bad about myself versus did I want this in the first place is my quality of life everything that I ever dreamed of.

22:41And my self-worth is not determined by adding another 20 million this year.

22:44Financial Feminist:Yeah. And there's so many people listening who, again, are just like, I want$2 ,000 extra a month. That would be really, really nice. And then there's other people who are like, no, I want 50, 100 million dollars. And I think both of those can coexist. But to your point, as soon as you open the doors to another room, there will always be another room. And you have to decide. I think pre-deciding is helpful because once you're in the room, you're like, I kind of want to go see now it's an emotional yeah yes yes yes and are you willing to sacrifice what it requires to get to that next level because we can all say i want a 300 million dollar company sure but are you willing to sacrifice are you willing to be the person it takes to do that and then you have to answer that question very honestly and it doesn't make you less of a person if you're not because you that's most important give me one second because what you just said too i have had experience with of there is some envy still that I have where I see somebody else because I'm ambitious.

23:38Financial Feminist:I am so supportive of other women. And also at the same time, I'm like, oh, I kind of want that too. And then the thing I ask myself is, am I willing to do what she did to get it? And if the answer is no, then I don't really want it. And that's okay. But that's the question I start asking myself is if I look at somebody and it's so easy, maybe somebody listening is looking at one of or all of us and going, oh, I really want that. And the point we're trying to make is, are you willing to put in your reps? And if the answer's no, that's fine. But then you can't say you want it. One thing that's been really helpful for me is to bring it down to a much smaller scale and to think about what do I want my average day to look like?

24:13It's so easy to spin out and 10 million a year, 30 million a year,$300 million company. But if you shrink it back down to what actually feels important to me on a day-to-day basis, that's been really helpful in grounding me. So two things emerged for me. One was I actually want a lot of space and freedom in my day. I do my absolute best work when I have a lot of spaciousness, when I don't meetings on the calendar all day long. I don't have a million things on my plate. I have the most creativity. I produce the best when I have a lot of space. And the second thing was I am not willing to risk my relationship.

24:51And especially since my relationship is a part of the business, I got to doubly protect it. But I really realized I am not willing to do anything that would put my relationship in harm in any sort of way. And just even having those two things to think about has really helped me identify what I'm willing to do. I think I actually have a pretty interesting take on this. I think that all of us have been given so much with our success. And I think that we have a moral responsibility to grow it as big as it can get. I think that it's called being a good steward of the opportunities we have. And so I would disagree.

25:23I don't think it matters in a way what I want my day to look like. It's what should my day look like? Think of us as women. To be in such a tiny percentage of successful founders, we have been given such a gift and such an opportunity to impact not just our customers, but our family tree and to leave a legacy. And so I think that for me, I went through all of this where I was like, I can just retire early and live on the money I have invested. So I went through this really big identity crisis this February. And I really was like, well, if I don't have to work? Why am I working? And I wrestled with it.

25:55I actually took a staycation here in Laguna, fully unplugged from the world. And I really wrestled with this because I was tired. I wanted to retire. But I just, the conviction for me came so strong that like what you've been given, you're in charge of being a steward of. And I think that it's my opinion, but there's what we might want to do and what we're called to do, what we're supposed to do. And not out of like heavy obligation, but more out of a gratitude, a gratitude realizing this is what I've been given. And what an unbelievable, unique, rare opportunity for me, especially as a woman, to have that opportunity.

26:26And so I think that that's why I don't quit. And that's why I keep going. And that's why I keep pushing. It's because I'm ambitious and I want to. But also because I have a moral responsibility to steward the blessing that I've been given. And to not just take care of myself, but to take care of the people I'm supposed to take care of, which is so much bigger than me and my daughter. So that's my take on that. How do you balance that when it starts to feel like it's really draining you? It does. I experienced that. Yeah, it's a great, it's not about me. It's not about me. Who gives a fuck if I'm drained?

26:55Who cares? Like it's, you take your little break, like practically, okay, I need to get off Instagram for a day and I need to reset. We're so talented and that we've reached levels of success that's so rare. Like I think we were put on this earth for a very specific reason and it's our gift. It's our gift to take it to the nth degree. And so there are so many days, of course, where I'm tired and I want to quit, but I felt this conviction very clearly to slow is to let a business die, right? If business isn't growing, it's dying. And I'll be damned if my business grows on my watch. And so it's not about what I want.

27:27It's about what I'm supposed to do, not in a heavy obligation way, but more in what a gift to be able to do this. And I'm not going to be selfish with my gift. Yeah, that's interesting. It's really interesting because I feel that exact same level of conviction of I know I was put on this earth to do this. And I know I want to have as big of an impact as humanly possible. but I feel like I have to take care of myself in order to be able to best give that gift. And I think it's not to the exclusion of taking care of yourself, but it's to know that some days are going to require you to not do what you want to do and to really, to reach in within yourself and find that greatness of an athlete.

28:03Like we're pro athletes at business. And so pro athletes don't quit. They don't play slow.

28:09Financial Feminist:In my head, it's like you take care of yourself so that you keep doing what you want to do. And also at the end of the day, like we don't love our business a hundred percent of the time. And so rather than being like, oh, I just want to throw in the towel determining, is this just a season where it's just really uncomfortable to be a business owner? And I just need to, to go through it. Every single person is going to have a period or even a long season of entrepreneurship where you're like, this is fucking awful. Like this sucks. And I think what you're saying is like you have the mission or you have the belief that like no I still have something to give and I have something the world needs and so I have to keep doing this I would say yeah like if you get a business to 10 million this is my opinion yeah like you have a moral obligation to try to get it to 100 million I would say that like you have your if you get it to that far if you achieve that level of success you're being selfish by not taking it to the next level that's my opinion conviction and Blake and I talk about this yeah I'm like if I'm at 10 and I feel good at 10?

29:07I'm good. But that's you playing small and taking care of Tori. That's not you taking care of Tori's people. No, it's also

29:12Financial Feminist:your own personal tolerance level for that. Yeah. Because Blake was like, let's sail off into the sunset. We have hit the mark. Why are we not? I'm like, okay, maybe on like a rowboat. We're not on a yacht. We had so far surpassed what he dreamed was possible for his life. So he's like, we did it. We crossed the finish line. We don't need to work anymore. And I'm like, we absolutely do. We have so many people to serve. My gift is not mine. But also our knowledge is only as good as to the extent of which we give it away, to which we share. If I have all this wisdom, you have so much wisdom that can release so many people.

29:47If you just sail off on a yacht and you're like, cool, then it's just all yours. It's not actually good wisdom. To me, this is two things.

29:55Financial Feminist:This is scaling versus service. I could retire tomorrow. I'm not interested in doing that because I have a job to do. And I think that's how we all feel. And at the same time, for me. I'm never quitting. Yeah. Yeah. And for me also, I could, if I really wanted to scale this to whatever, I am not interested in doing that personally because of what it's going to require for me in this season of my life. Like when I was early 20s, maybe, but my success has changed. And I do want to impact as many people as possible. But there are certain things that I am not willing to do for me personally because I know that I would burn out.

30:30Financial Feminist:Or I know that this would no longer be how do I serve people for a long time. I don't want to firework and burn out, you know. I don't want to be a big ball of flame. I want longevity. I want to be doing this until I'm in the hospital. My last breath, like, we got to find the clit, guys.

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32:28I wanted to ask you this question. Because you teach people how to have better sex, do you have to experiment a lot? You're like, honey, we got to go to work, into the bedroom or under the couch. How much your R &D looks like? R &D. We are absolutely guinea pigs. We will try any weird tip I've found on the internet, any totally bizarre position I've found. I want to try everything. Absolutely everything. A lot of times people will ask me, well, does that take away the spark or the magic from it that you feel like you have to do it for work? And it's completely the opposite. it. Scheduling sex is actually the best thing.

33:04It's given us this freedom to just try things and not put pressure on it. Let's just see. How does it go? That was terrible? Great. Okay. That was a really funny bonding experience between the two of us.

33:16Financial Feminist:I mean, we're having a whole conversation about something that no one will talk about, which is money, right? Same taboo as sex. Are there certain boundaries you've set in your business of what you will or won't talk about, what you will or won't share? For me, if anybody's following me, you know that I am partnered, but I don't share my partner publicly. And that was something that we started our relationship. I was like, this for me is something that feels private and sacred and I want to keep it that way. Is there something for you? Right now, honestly, no. I think I'm in this season now where I've had so many different kind of phases where a wound hadn't healed yet and I didn't want to talk about that scenario.

33:52I now feel so comfortable in my own skin and I also don't have a lot of personal attachment to different scenarios that have happened to me or people are leaving hate comments or whatever, I think I've just kind of developed this thick skin where my approach is just kill them with kindness, like literally anybody that comes at me. And that leaves me in a happy place. And I don't, you know, feel any kind of resentment or guilt or whatever. So honestly, right now I'm in a place where I'm like, fill me 24 seven. And I'd be cool with that. I'd love to see how that goes for the next five years. So I'm kind of moving into that season for myself, but I also have not had that experience before.

34:24So I'll probably have a different answer in five years. And also when I have kids, maybe.

34:27Financial Feminist:Yeah. How about you? Oh, I'm an open book. I probably should keep more to myself. I just feel so lucky to be here and blessed to be here that I'm like, ask me anything. And I'm not embarrassed about where I've come from or what I've done or anything that's happened to me or my shortcomings, because it's just, this is just who you are. Yeah. Right. And it's like, I actually love something that Layla Hermosey says, which is that she tries to show herself as raw as she possibly can in every piece of content so that when you meet her, it's not like you're meeting a totally different version of that person.

34:56And I think it does kind of suck unless it's intentional. Like, Hey, this is my, you ego, my alias, whatever. Totally. But like someone getting to meet all of us, I feel like all of you are the way that you are in person for real, also in your content and the way that you show up for your customers. Public me is me.

35:11Financial Feminist:Like I'm not putting on a front. But also I am very different in private circles because I will compare myself to Beyonce for a second if you will indulge me. But like, I think it was actually something really smart that she did is she created Sasha Fierce to like, because there is a version of you that has to show up in public spaces. 100%. Like I am not who I am here with my partner. That would be so annoying. Like I'm talking in soundbites and I'm like, that's annoying. But like it does coexist with that version. Are there certain things? I know you're an open book as well, Maria. I'm a very open book.

35:43I talk about, you know, going through my divorce. I talk about all the money stuff. I share how much I spend in my personal life. But similar to you feeling like your partner is sacred, I would say similar. It's the same thing with my daughter. Yeah. I definitely talk about her, but I'm very mindful of how I do that. We don't see her face. You don't see her face. Her story is her story. And so if I mention her, it's only in relation to my role as her mother. And so I try to keep my story about me and just really respect her privacy. I think that's important. But other than that, I mean, I wish I could show her face.

36:11I love sharing everything. I wonder how I'll be when I start dating again. Honestly, I think I'm probably going to share it because I share everything. So it feels natural to me. But who knows? I love the idea of something being so sacred, we don't share it. And that is my daughter. Yeah. Yeah. well vulnerability is really important to me we know we're talking about this topic that the vast majority of people feel shame embarrassment it's they struggle to be open about it so it's really important to Xander and I to take the lead to take that first step to show people look we can talk about all the most intimate details of our sex life on the internet we can embarrass ourselves make fools out of ourselves yes my parents know all the details But we do have a no questions asked veto rule between the two of us.

36:56So at any point with any piece of content, if one of us says, you know what? I actually don't want to talk about that online. No questions asked. No pressure whatsoever. Love that. And the one question that we won't answer about our own sex life is how often we have sex. Interesting. Because that's the number one question people have. It's been a barometer. How much sex should we be having? And I think that's actually the wrong question to be asking. But I think that if we were to share our number, people would think, oh, well, that's the right number. If I just try to hit this tally, then we'll magically be fine because that's what Vanessa and Xander do.

37:30You're like, I'm clocking in for my sex time. And if you're trying to have sex to hit a tally, then it is not going to be good sex.

37:39Financial Feminist:My last question for us. What money belief did you have to completely unlearn as a founder? that not all debt is bad and that debt can actually be really good leverage in the business context. Yeah, I think that's one interesting thing as a financial educator. Debt, we label debt, if you're poor, we call it debt. We call it leverage if you're rich. That's right. So debt is credit cards, it's student loans, debt is bad, right? My nemesis Dave Ramsey wants to talk all the time about how bad debt is. But the interesting thing is like, you know, could have bought my house in cash. I did not because it was made more sense for me to take out a mortgage and put my money elsewhere.

38:15Financial Feminist:So I think that's exactly right. Yeah. Almost more about resource allocation and ultimately having a plan. I think that, and you see a lot more of this than I do, but in my own personal experience, a lot of the time you're not actually planning what your payback is going to look like for personal debt. You're just like, great, I'll take out these loans. I'll take out this credit card debt. Whereas in business, yes, if you approach it with a plan, then you know, great, I can pay this back in two years, three years, whatever it might be. And so now it is just a reverse engineered decision as opposed to an emotional decision of, oh, I want to buy these things.

38:46I don't have the cash, but I want to make an emotional decision and buy this thing to feel good or whatever. Adley, would you have to unlearn? I had to unlearn that money is hard to make. When I was in such a place of scarcity and bankrupt, the best gift that I gave myself was the ability to see opportunities to make money everywhere. I was selling insurance door to door. I was flipping phone cases. I flipped big pigs, baby pigs. I would adopt them, nurture them for five months at a time and then flip them for$850. You know, I was just finding ways to add value to any situation. The hustle was crazy.

39:24The hustle was wild. But I realized money is all around us. And then if you could just see opportunities and that helps me so much with it being a tool, knowing if everything was taken from me again, I know I could make it back because I have a gift to be able to see opportunities in anything and offer value in exchange for what people want and what I can bring into the world. Yeah. Maria? I had to unlearn that it wasn't greedy to want money. It was just common sense. Money is just so good. We shouldn't have to justify our desire for money. It's not bad to want money. It's not evil or greedy. It's just common sense.

39:57Of course you want money. Money's good. Money's beautiful. It's such a tool. And I had a lot of conditioning that needed to be removed around you are greedy if you want money. And so when I stopped seeing money as bad, I started getting some. And the more I started loving money, the more money started loving me.

40:13Financial Feminist:Yeah. And I think speaking of like responsibility, I think that any person, but really any woman listening, like I need you to have money because you will be the most generous. You will be the most family and community oriented. And in a world where there are certain people who are so greedy and who are just interested in how do I get the biggest yacht in the biggest house and all of that. It's like money in the hands of women changes the entire world. Studies show that. Studies show that actually. Yeah, they've done studies on that. I actually need women to have, it's imperative, especially at this moment, to make as much money as ethically as you can, but in a way that is allowing you to provide options and choices.

40:55I had to learn to pay attention to money. I think so many of us women have been socialized to not pay any attention to money, to just kind of be the sleeping beauty and, oh, I don't know, it's all going to work out and not pay any attention to it. And I've learned to have a relationship with money, to talk to money, to be grateful for money, to have dates with my money, to send my money off to make friends and bring those friends back to hang out. And even to be grateful for expenses, to think about who are the people's lives that I'm impacting by paying that bill that's kind of annoying or paying that home improvement project that I wasn't anticipating having to do.

41:38But just being able to think of money as something that I'm constantly in a relationship with. I love that.

41:45Financial Feminist:I think the ostrich effect is real. That's the most common thing I see in our community is you bury your head in the sand, you act like it doesn't exist. But the thing I've really realized with most people with money is that they say, oh, I'm really scared of my money so I won't look. Right? I hear that a lot. You're not scared of money. You're actually scared because you have no idea what the hell is going on. So one of the things you're doing is it's like getting in a car with no gas gauge and now you're just driving. That's not a fun road trip. Yeah. Because the whole time you're wondering, am I going to break down at two in the morning without cell reception?

42:14Financial Feminist:Right? But if I get in the car and the gas gauge light is on, like the light's on, that's not great, but at least I know, okay, I can get my four miles to go get gas. So when you say, oh, I'm scared of money and that's why I'm not looking at it. No, you're not actually scared of money. You're scared of the unknown. And there's nothing that feels worse than going to buy something and your card declines or I haven't budgeted. So I have a pina colada on the beach, but it's with a side of guilt. I think it's so important for anybody managing money, but especially entrepreneurs as I see so many creative people, they go, well, I'm just not good with money.

42:44Financial Feminist:And I'm like too fucking bad. Like if this is a requirement, this is a skill that you absolutely can and need to learn. I don't care how creative your business is. you have to at least have a general knowledge of what's going on. Because if you don't, it's just, your business will not be successful. It's just impossible. Do you think there's a difference between making money and having a business? I'll give an example. Yes. We were doing a lot on Snapchat and Snapchat came out with Spotlight for the very first time. They were giving away a million dollars a day. Did we create several accounts across several phones and post every five minutes between Blake and I for seven days straight through the night?

43:22Yes, that was making a lot of money. it was not a business. But I think in early entrepreneurial journeys, if you can just learn how to make money, get that muscle memory going, then you find the opportunity that you actually want to scale. But it's nice. I like flipping pigs and selling insurance and phone cases and all those little things that it did to make money. I won game shows. I just got in the habit of learning how to see money and how to make money. And that was how I edged myself into being an entrepreneur. I think that's such a great distinction. And found that they scaled it. I think the business is the system

43:53Financial Feminist:or the thing you've built that is not requiring your active work all the time or the new opportunity. Like if you are 100 % reliant on somebody else or some other thing for your profit, that's just really hard. Because they can take that away from you at any time. Versus if you're thinking more strategically about not only how do I just make more money, it's like how do I build something that keeps running without me having to feed the fire all the time. I think that probably is the distinction. 100 % because as a video creator, we would have to dance for our dinner every day. And if I wasn't making videos, I wasn't making money.

44:26Then we turned it into a business where we started hiring people. We started a management division. We started training our knowledge. So then it was a business that could run and we were making the same amount of money, but I wasn't having to do the work. But there was a transition between starting to make money in the beginning, then scaling it into a real business. Yeah, it's a great distinction.

44:42Financial Feminist:All right. I would love for all of us to go around and say, remind us who we are, what we do, how somebody can get in touch. Yeah, 100%. My Instagram is Natasha T. Willis and my business school of bots helps the top Instagram accounts in their niche maximize their revenue from their content. As a client, I can vouch for that. My name is Adley. I'm at Adley on Instagram and we help business owners increase their visibility and their brand's reach in five days or less across all platforms. I'm Vanessa. I am on Instagram at Vanessa and Xander. We help couples still want to have sex with each other.

45:17So if you can't remember the last time you've done it, the last time it was good, then definitely come check us out. Yeah, I'm Maria Wendt. My Instagram is at Maria.Wendt. Please follow me on all of your accounts, including your backup ones, because I'm almost at a million. So please have your dog follow me, all of them. And I help people get paid doing the things they love. I'm really good at it. Anything you love doing, I can help you make money with it pretty quickly. So come find me and I'll help you out. Amazing.

45:44Financial Feminist:And I'm Tori Dunlap. I run Her First 100K. I help women be better with money. You can go to herfirst100k.com slash quiz. Take a six-step quiz. There's no pass-fail. We're just getting more information about you. And we'll deliver you a free personalized money plan. So that's the easiest way to get in touch with me. This was so fun. Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you for listening to Financial Feminist, produced by Her First 100K. If you love the show and want to keep supporting feminist media, please subscribe or follow us on your preferred podcasting platform or on YouTube. Your support helps us continue to bring this content to you for free.

46:13Financial Feminist:If you're looking for resources, tools, and education, including all of the resources mentioned in this episode, head to herfirst100k.com slash sspod.

46:25Should she say that about the kisses? Is that weird? She doesn't care. She presses send. This is the love story of real hinge couple Daniel and Roisin, written and read by me, Rufy Thorpe. Listen to the free audiobook now.

46:42Financial Feminist:Fall is the perfect time to refresh and reorganize your space. At the Home Depot, find power tools and tool sets starting at$50 to help tackle DIY projects, home updates, and more. Whether you're drilling brackets to support new shelving or sharpening your hedge trimmer blade with an angle grinder, the Home Depot has the tools you need to check projects off your list. Shop Labor Day savings at The Home Depot and gear up for fall projects with the right tools to keep your projects moving.