Jenna Fischer

0:00David, Jenna Fisher. Jenna Fisher, the lovely Jenna Fisher, who's pretty universally liked out there. I mean, very sweet, very talented, very fun and charming. Famous for The Office. She's done a lot of movies and a lot of other things, but she was Pam on The Office, the smash. For all 98 seasons. Yeah. That show just kept grinding it out. There's a spinoff now we talk about. we don't only talk about The Office of course she does plays, she's doing a new one we're talking about I asked her about Nick Swartz and about Will Ferrell she loves SNL and I hit her up after the interview and I think she had what we had, she's always like exactly what we say, did we ask the right questions was I interesting, was I fun we always finish and going I think we did that wrong, whatever but she's very sweet about it she wanted to do a good job, she listens to the show So she has her own show.

1:01The Office Ladies. And she tells some really funny stories, interesting stories about her struggles before she got on The Office. And there's a whole arc of story involving Molly Shannon. And that's a very interesting thing. Oh, I like that story, yeah. And sometimes when we finish the podcast, we keep our laptop open. So I ended up talking with her for a half hour afterwards. she's very easy well she's easy to talk to so anyway i hope you enjoy this one jenna fisher

1:38i was just asked by her producer and it's a profound question when you're driving around a long drive two-hour drive whatever what's your what's your entertainment xm news music Like podcasting or just rap phone calls to pay back. You have 10 seconds. Ooh, it's not music. I do not listen to music. My first car did not have a working radio and I just got used to driving in silence and it's my preference. But now I would say news podcasts or phone calls. So I love the idea that you literally could go like just the silence, two hours, three hours. Jesus. Jesus, it's chasing you. It's healthy, by the way.

2:36I don't know. I drove from St. Louis, Missouri, all the way to California with no radio. Just open windows. I also know air conditioning. No air conditioning in the trunk. My first car was really just, it just moved you from one place to another. There was no luxury involved. They're not old, like air conditioning. What year of car? I don't remember. I think it was like an 86. I mean, it had originally, when it was built, had these features. They just didn't work anymore. So you do the office all those years, and then you buy a used Buick from 1988? I mean, I'll talk to Corral if I have to. No.

3:14I'm going to call Greg Daniels. Okay, go ahead. No, no, no. So I had a Mazda 323 hatchback. Sweet. And that was the car I drove across the country. Okay. And then I upgraded to a Volkswagen Jetta, which was my favorite car maybe I've ever had. It was awesome. But then when I got my big office paycheck, I got a stupid car. Okay. Yeah, Rolls Royce. It was, I walked into a Mercedes dealership and they had a little sedan. They only made like seven of these and it had like the engine of a race car, but in like the body of like a C-class Mercedes. So it was like cute and compact, but it, I was a hundred percent an asshole driver.

4:03Like, because I could cut around anyone. I could, it was, oh, it was great. Did you keep it? I leased it and I gave it up after the lease. Lease. And I went more practical. We all have that story. You want me to go first, David? Because it's similar to yours. Okay, got a little money, some movie, whatever. Got extra money. Went to a Mercedes dealership. Bought a convertible little Mercedes coupe. Like, oh, wow, this is awesome. Drove it for three or four days and realized when I had the canopy up, I was looking through a plastic windshield in the back. so took it back traded in for a sle or a big a 420 sle and then i started getting people paying attention to me i lived in the valley when i would go to like 7-eleven or a gas station so then i went to honda i just wanted a lo-fi car that's my story well the problem with la is that you get this awesome car and then you can only go like 32 miles an hour in it because you're always stuck in traffic so it's kind of like after a few years i was like oh the best i can do is like whip down the on-ramp yeah 300 horsepower and you're just and then that's exactly yeah yeah when i moved out i got something when i first paid check and i went and i had no car so i got a car dana knows the story six thousand dollar honda i didn't go flashy I only had six And then I drove it to the Improv And then I brought it out I brought my buddy out to show him and it was stolen What?

5:40So How long? You had it for like a night? One day You went one place And Kevin Nealon I drove it from Drove a car eerily similar to that I'm not saying he had anything to do with the robbery But it was kind of weird But my first car was a Volkswagen Bug Are you going to go to first car Or first car when you got an extra paycheck? me no you are we know your story we know my story yeah david you got oh i i had my fair share because i do like cars but i i my neck gives me trouble so every time i get a car i love it just starts it's just too painful and like jenna said when you're starting and stopping all day it's not like you live in the midwest and you can floor it and there's big parking lots like when you go to wendy's in arizona there's like 300 parking spots and when you go here there's one at kmart and you go, are we all sharing this?

6:31You can't believe when you get to LA how little there's some businesses have absolutely no parking. So I don't know what we're supposed to do. So that, that kind of threw me and I realized I didn't need big fancy cars. I could just tell people I had them. I didn't really need them. My first car was also a manual transmission. Oh boy. And my left foot would like truly ache at the end of like driving all day in LA because you were constantly just going in and out of third and fourth gear. You never made it to fifth gear in this car. God, no one has a stick anymore. No. This was the cheapest car.

7:14The manual transmission was the cheapest car. My dad's very practical. He was like, you'll get this car. I'll teach you how to drive it. This is all you need. You don't need any frills. Yeah. In St. Louis. Yeah. Yeah. You've been to St. Louis, I bet. I'm going to St. Louis to do a show. Heather, what is the city called? Have you had Emo's Pizza in St. Louis? Emo's Pizza in St. Louis? No, but I like it as a town. I like walking around. I like that stadiums are really close in. Jenna, do you know what Chesterfield is? Chesterfield is where I grew up. Oh, is it really? Chesterfield is where my family lives now.

7:56Uh-oh. Yeah, I actually grew up in like Manchester slash Chesterfield in an unincorporated area. But yeah, Chesterfield for sure. Why? Because that's where I'm going for my tour. And they said I was with Nikki Glaser this weekend and she's from St. Louis. And she goes, why don't they put on your tour St. Louis? No one says Chesterfield. I go, oh, I don't know. I don't even know. I mean, if you're from St. Louis, you know what Chesterfield is. Okay, good. It's not like, yeah, it's not downtown. I mean, St. Louis is downtown. You're going to be in the burbs. You're in the suburbs. That's fine with me.

8:33And I think it's a great place. I've been there before. I think it's new. Anyway, we'll set up comps for everyone you know from high school. Other than that. Great. Great. You know, Dana. Be careful what you say. My high school ladies are going to come out for your show. It's super fun. Dana and I had a question. First of all, I'll tell Dana a little pre-question that you don't know. All right. Let's try to keep our guests off balance. Like with questions, she's not asked all the time. Oh, yeah. We're here to watch. We want to surprise you. She's going to come out here dizzy. I love it. Great.

9:06Everyone loves that in an interview. I thought of doing this with Dana, and then I called Jenna, right, Jenna? Do you remember this? Yes, of course. Yes. And you were very sweet. You took the call, and you kind of walked me through how it works and what you did. And it really gave me a little boost to say this might be fun. and if it has to be a day and it has to be that's fine whatever um and so and then dana had a question of do you really need a partner has it ever gone through your mind i could have done this by myself and then the money doubles has that ever gone through or or you know maybe angela but uh that dana and i think about that all day every day people always ask us forever why You know, why us?

9:54Why now? Are you really friends? Do you get that? I mean, you guys are famously really close friends. But with Spade and I, I was like, what? The Tommy Boy guy and the Williams World guy? Yeah. Yeah, well, I mean, also because Angela and I were frenemies on The Office, our characters were not friends. And people are always very surprised to learn that we are best friends in real life. I could not have done the podcast without her. I am all like structure and order and spreadsheets. My version of Office Ladies podcast would be very informative, but also way less entertaining. so Angela brings all of the like funny and all of the quirky and all of like the weird observations so we're actually we're a pretty good pair yeah I think that's smart that you did that because there is kind of safety in numbers uh Dana is way better at this and uh I don't think I could do myself I think Dana really really drives it and makes it easier to uh except for me but But jokingly, it's fun to joke around with him, too, because he's a funny guy, obviously.

11:07And we have a good time with that. And I think you guys have a real friendship. So people like to hear that you're friends, even though it doesn't seem like it on the show. You guys, I love your podcast. Like, you have no idea how excited I am to be on your podcast right now. I listen to you guys. I think you are so good together. Dana, I can't believe you're talking to me right now. that's kind of blowing my mind i'm a huge saturday night live nerd the greatest part about being on the office and being on nbc was that i got to breathe the same air as saturday night live people this is like that we would have to be at the same corporate parties together and i was a total groupie that is who i gravitated toward it was just the coolest and but that's going way back I actually have a crazy story from my very early days in LA.

12:05Let's hear it. And Saturday Night Live. Okay, so I made my living when I landed in LA as a typist and a transcriber. And you know how you'd have to go to those events. They're called like the Television Critics Association. And you would sit on a panel as a cast and you would introduce new cast members. This would be for any show. Well, my job was to go and sit in that room and take notes and then go back to a hotel room, a hot hotel room filled with like 12 people and 12 computers and then listen to audio and transcribe these like press events. Wow. These conversations. Yeah. Yes. And if we got our work done on time by that evening, we were allowed to go to the quote unquote parties, which, as you know, are really just cast members of TV shows mingling with reporters who are trying to get soundbites.

13:04But we would get to go. We'd get to eat the food, drink the drinks and just watch all the famous people. Well, all I wanted more than anything was to go to the Saturday Night Live party. I wanted it more than my little new heart in L.A. could stand it. And so I knew what night it was coming up, and I started planting the seed the day before. I started pretending like I didn't feel good because I was going to make an excuse that I was sick so that I could get off work on time and then sneak into this party. but I needed the hours, you know, so I planted that seed. The next day I was like, man, I'm still not feeling good.

13:44At three o 'clock, I'm like, I'm so sorry. I got to go. I got to go home. The guy was like, fine. I had planted a change of clothes in my car. I went, I changed into a cocktail dress. I sneak into the party and I can't even tell you it was amazing. Norm Macdonald. I'm looking at him in the flesh. I can't, my mind is blown. Then I see Molly Shannon and I think I'm going to do it. I'm going to go say hi to Molly Shannon. And I walk up to her. She's giving sound bites to the press. And I say, Molly Shannon, I am a new actress in LA and I just admire you so much. And I just wanted to tell you just what you mean to me.

14:26You know, the stuff you say. Yeah, sure. She looked at me, took me by the shoulders, looked me deep in the eyes and said, don't give up. Whatever you do, don't give up. It took me 10 years to get on Saturday Night Live. And my best advice to you is just know it'll happen eventually if you just stick with it. Okay? Wow. You guys. Sounds like the Molly we know. Yeah. I was about to say she'll say something nice. She's amazing. And I went and I like, I had this encounter with her and then I turn around and my boss from the transcription room is standing there along with everybody else who got off work on time and they came to this party.

15:10And I was like, am I fired? And he goes, you are fired. No. I was like, okay. He fired me. But it was fine, guys, because I met Molly Shannon and she gave me that advice. and I went home and I told my mom and every time I had a hard day for the next 10 years, my mom would say to me, Jenna, don't you forget what Molly Shannon told you. She said, don't give up. She said it took you, it took her 10 years. You guys wait for it. 10 years later, I'm at the premiere of Walk Hard, the movie Walk Hard that I did with John C. Reilly. Yeah, right. I shit you not, guess who's at that party? Molly Shannon.

15:51Molly Shannon. Your boss. And I got to go up to her and I got to say, Molly Shannon, here's this story. You told me 10 years. And she was like, oh, look, it's 10 years later. And here you are. And I got a picture with her. I made the photographer come over and take a picture of us. Is that the greatest thing ever? Does Molly know as she heard this story? Yes. I told her that night at the Walk Hard premiere. Wow. Unbelievable. Yes, and I wrote a book, and I wrote that story in the book, and I have a picture in the book, too.

16:30Well, when I met David, he was 19, I said, you hang with this, and in six months, don't give up, because in six months, no, David was out of the blocks fast. If it was a sprinter, he was like, boom. Dana said, you're going to move to L.A., and in six months, you'll get crabs. And I go, okay. Police Academy, hello. He got a movie. I got a movie early on. That's the Police Academy movie that I made. I had$6 ,000 to buy the car that got stolen. So I was back to zero. Wow. Yeah, great story. You still type 85 words per minute. That's nothing to sneeze at. I do. I do. 90 % accuracy. It's all in the accuracy.

17:17Anyone can type garbage. You're 90%. that right yeah i mean right you want to type words anyone can just type my father was a high school uh teaching uh a typing teacher my father for decades can you type can you guys type with all your fingers or are you like two finger typers i can't do anything if you see a non-taught young person like in their 20s they they're really fast and i don't know if it's technically using all their fingers. You know, we picked it up later. But I'm fast enough. But I don't. Jenna, I have a good question that ties into Saturday Night Live. What is it? When you did Blades of Glory, you wound up getting to have sex with Will Ferrell, right?

18:05Yes, that's right. I had a sex scene with Will. Mm-hmm. Oh, my gosh. That's one of the best all-time goats of SNL. For sure. Oh, yeah. That was nuts. But also, by the way, Amy Poehler was in that movie. Oh, that's right, Amy. So, So just playing my sister. Wowee. And Will Arnett was in that movie. Yeah. I mean, that was terrifying. That was terrifying. And Will was so polite when we shot that scene because he had to like grab my boobs like several times. But what was crazy about it was I probably had on more clothes in that scene where I look like I'm just in like a nightie than I normally wear.

18:46Like they, cause they put you in like Spanx and then a corset and then a thing. And they painted my body with makeup. I mean, I felt like so covered. It was crazy. He has a go and grab your boobs through your stuff, but it's like that kind of thing. You can't even feel it because you've got 18 layers of. Yeah. It's like I was wearing body armor. So I was kind of like, maybe like wink when you grab them. Cause I can feel nothing. This was predates intimacy coordinators. There was no one there. There was no. It was just like, here's what we're doing. There was just a director going, let's do this.

19:23Yes, exactly. Was Swartzen in that, you know, Nick Swartzen, that little fool? Yes. Yes, he was. Oh, my God. We are friends with Nick. And, you know, it's a real roller coaster, Jenna. I'll tell you that. It is. I found him lovely on the film, but what do I know? No, he's great. He's so funny. hall pass we haven't even gotten to the god dang uh office like a question about the office what is it the question is is for you and your partner uh re-watching all these episodes and talking about them yeah what how is your perception if it at all changed about the show or what did you learn about the show or in or if anything because it is now officially a phenomenon in the way it travels around and then explodes again it's evergreen and it's a it's a unique show and um uh yesterday i was watching um the office with bricky gervais very different i mean it you know you say it came from that office but it went it it has its own complete original thing greg daniels one of the great writers so what did you guys what what do you feel about that thing after doing hundreds of podcasts.

20:38Did you go through every episode at some point? Yeah. Every single episode, all 201 episodes. And then a lot of interviews with cast and crew. Writers. Writers. Exactly. My biggest takeaway from having rewatched it was that it's really good the whole time because I think there was this lore, especially among the cast and the creatives that maybe we like hit our peak in season three or season four. And also this belief that like the two seasons after Steve left, we were just treading water and maybe they weren't as good. But when I watched everything, like some of my favorite episodes were in seasons eight, nine, after Steve had left.

21:26Like there were still these amazing storylines. And also I have to say now, when I look back, some of my favorite episodes were also in seasons four through six. Like Dinner Party was season four. Michael Scott Paper Company, that whole arc was in season five. And that's just great TV. And, but yeah, I think, you know, some of the award nominations stopped after season three. So I think maybe we got in our heads and thought, oh, I guess we're not creating as great. I think that just happens no matter what. Yeah, you're not the new shiny object anymore. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And they kind of slow down.

22:05That's a nice thing. I mean, when you're watching yourself and you're watching a thing and then you come on and stuff and it's something you did years ago, do you ever sometimes, because you sound like you're a normal actor, comedian, that's sort of like a little self-critical. How was I? Do you ever kind of look at yourself in a scene and go, damn, I nailed that. Why did I feel insecure? or what's that like? I mean, I have both reactions. Sometimes I watch it and I'm like, I'll never do work that good again. Shit, that was great. But then there's other scenes where I just cringe, where I'm like, oh God, I remember how I struggled with that and I couldn't do it.

22:42And now here it is for everyone to see. And I guess I just have to move on. So I've had both reactions. And I don't know the complete specifics of this, but you it's first of all it is all it was always an ensemble how great corral is in that part is is you know everybody knows that but it always was an ensemble and so many people came out of it now have these long careers but um it's um i forgot my train of thought sorry i was do you ever have something in my head jenna when you can watch it and say i was in the pocket because sometimes you watch it and you go you're just in in the pocket of going this is a great scene this whole idea of this episode's working and they whip the camera back get a great look whip back to you perfect timing get a great look and when you see it you go because you know you can only feel the camera when you're shooting and you don't really know and then you go god they nailed that boom boom edited well everything about this is just that's why people really get enchanted by.

23:47And also, just your face is so part of the office. And it's so cute. They always cut to you. And you have these little storylines. It's really, I see why people get hooked on it. No matter when you turn it on, you can just grab any episode. I remember what I forgot, which is how much, if any, improvisation was there. Because it comes off very improvisational in Totem. But I know there wasn't completely improvised. I know, that's a pretty cool word, right? so were you allowed to kind of go you guys could i try this you know do you mind if i do you know that kind of stuff yeah it was really collaborative and um you know so many of the writers were also actors on the show so they were with us and they would be sometimes pitching alternate jokes right there on the set that's kind of fun yeah so that was neat and we did a lot of improvising but i I don't know how much of it actually made the cut.

24:42We got to play and have fun. But I would say like 90 % of what you see on the screen was written on the page down to like they would write in ellipses for our speech. Like so you knew to kind of pause because they knew they were going to whip the camera during that pause. And so they could get back to you. So there was a very elaborate choreography of whipping the camera a little too late so that it seemed, and you'd have to get the handles. So it seemed like the crew, yeah, they didn't quite do it right. Yeah. Yes, exactly. And so a lot of times when we would do a rehearsal, they would say, Jenna, will you give a handle before your next line so we have time for that camera whip?

25:26So that would be, we would add things like, um, well. They'd find you. So that they could find you. Yeah. like in the right timing. But, um, it also seems very real. Like a lot of the nonverbal acting and those cutaways to a character that isn't saying a line, but just sort of nonverbally doing some kind of attitude and stuff. It, it, it was immediately just felt so new. I, I'm not going to say fresh. David would use that word a lot, but immediately I think for comedians as well, uh, watching it going, this looks cool. This looks fun. this looks different and really funny it doesn't push at all you know it's the well we had um we had two camera operators with cameras on their shoulders and both of these guys were from survivor so these guys had like walked through the whatever the wilderness with the survivor people capturing survivor so this is where they came from in the documentary world and um camera a randall einhorn who was also our cinematographer who went on to be director and is now you know the executive producer of abbott elementary and all those things uh randall was our a camera and his job was to get all of the dialogue um and then matt sohn he was our b camera and then his job was to get all of those things you're talking about dana all of the acting that was happening in the background so whenever a scene was happening we were all in the background of each other's scenes all day long on set the full 12 hours Steve Carell included.

27:03I can't tell you how many times Steve Carell had to sit in Michael Scott's office just to be in the background of Jim and Pam looking at each other. A piece of them. Yeah, because we're going to see a piece. We're going to see a piece of you. It's like something we could put on a mug. Yeah. That'd actually be a great cast gift. Yeah. And so he would grab and push in on all of the, you know, anyone who was in the background of a scene and get their reactions in real time. It was such a cool way to work. Yeah. And you have to stay alive though. You do. Every scene. But it keeps your energy up, you know, because that's the hardest thing for me about acting in movies is like the long amounts of downtime between when you're actually acting.

27:45It's just like, oh God, I got to ramp up again. Yeah. And it's just, you know, I don't know if this is the correct way to say it, but if you feel like if you're discovering something new in the moment, it's really nice. it does keep your brain alive. And in traditional movies, what I was doing, you do the three masters at seven or eight a.m. or whatever. And then by five or six o 'clock, you start and, oh, don't you. And the master eight hours ago, your left elbow was up and you open the car door at this point. It's the antithesis of what you guys had, at least the way it felt. It popped. It felt real.

28:23For sure. And we did not have marks. You know, for people out there, like you put tape on the ground And then you have to stand on it because that's how you're going to be in focus. But we had no marks. And if the boom dipped in shot, we just kept it in because, you know, it worked in the world. And when I finished, when I, you know, going back to Blades of Glory, Blades of Glory was the first big movie I did after being cast on The Office. And I repeatedly kept looking down the barrel of the camera. Like I would do a scene with Will and Amy and then I would like give a look to camera. I'd be like, fuck, I can't do that.

29:02And also I suddenly had to hit a mark and I was so stiff. It was really stressful because I'd been in this other world. You can watch when people on movies, sometimes if you ever watch someone looks down and they walk in, look for their mark and they look up. I love it. So horrifying. I want to say also. I was going to say this show is fresh, but it's funny that the term fresh. is stale but also i'm gonna bring it back the office was fresh and the new one called the paper yeah peacock have you seen that do you know much about it okay i haven't seen it but i got to go to the set angela and i got special access to the set and um got to talk to all the actors we got to see it it's really cool but we're not allowed to see anything oh yeah i think it's in the can like They finished it.

29:55It comes out in September. Oh, interesting. September on where? Peacock. I don't know. Peacock, right? Peacock.

30:07So with John Krasinski, the Jim and Pam narrative became such a big thing. I talked to some people in their early 20s today, told them I was going to interview you. And on The Office, I go, she was Pam. Oh, Pam! you know this is like a famous character and jim and pam i'm just kind of curious because john krasinski um i find it really really interesting how he came up with that horror film uh the quiet what was it the quiet a quiet place quiet place and um it's interesting when actors just all of a sudden you see them like wow this guy can really direct and did you see any uh seeds of that in him intellectually or just the way it was around?

30:52Was that a surprise to you when he came out directing? It was a surprise to none of us. Oh, I didn't think so. John, I would always say to John, I think you're going to be like our Tom Hanks. Remember how Tom Hanks did Bosom Buddies? Totally. And he was like a very famous, successful TV show. But when you think of Tom Hanks, you don't think of Bosom Buddies. You think of everything else Tom Hanks has done. And I was like, I think the office is going to be your bosom buddies. Like you're going places. It's very clear. And did he look down at his at the ground and go, oh, shucks, Jenna? Or how did he did?

31:30He did. He's very, yes, he's very humble in that way. You know, like that would be if I say that to him, that's very embarrassing to him. You know, like he doesn't want to be like fussed over like that. But I was like, no, it's true, mister. Well, it's a Herculean task to direct a movie. I mean, just physically and mentally. But Dana fusses over me all the time. Fusses? Yeah. You fuss over me. I want to hear more about you being a telephone psychic when you got this. Yeah. That was. She worked as a car wash. I did work at a car for three summers and that was my best job. I worked at Long John Silver's.