Michael McKean Returns… Just Like Spinal Tap

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0:48And then he started talking to me about what they had seen in the sky from just right here, really late at night. You know, when the storefront windows go out, you can really see all the action up there. I thought, God, I love you, Dan Eckler. The first time I spoke with Howard Stern, I said, you must know going in that I think all morning men on the radio should be killed. And I told him that. So we're good. I just spent the first part of the morning listening to Paul McCartney sing a song that I wrote. That's something that I never thought would happen to me. we got michael mckeon uh dana who is a friend of mine we did the movie conant's together we did snl together snl yeah he's done one million things in show business uh he's part of a lot of the christopher guest movies uh namely spinal tap which we are discussing the sequel coming out

1:48Dana Carvey:very exciting spinal tap 2 which i'm excited to talk to him about that because i do think it's a great time to bring it out it just the trailer i saw was super funny so he's a great storyteller and that's uh it's fun to have him yeah he's great we've had him once we're having him again you know i thought was it would be a good title for a sequel dana yes the end of the beginning it's kind of funny i thought it should be called it's one higher Oh yeah Because two is more than one Because he goes 11 That's what he says in the movie right? Yeah It's one higher We have our speakers What do they do?

2:28They write it to 11 So it goes higher

2:30Dana Carvey:But it's still It could be 10 full blast It's like a little math He goes Yeah it's hysterical It's one higher It's one higher Why don't you make 10 the highest? Right but it's one higher This is in the trailer It's one higher You know That's what I'm supposed to say Anyway you'll crack up Michael McKeon has a lot to say And here he is Am I early, boys? No way. I feel like I'm in a Western and you just walked in the saloon. Am I early, boys? I know you, stranger. Desdry rides again. Desdry with Audie Murphy, I think it was. Yes, it was Jimmy Stewart first. And I'll tell you, since you brought it up, the guy who created Desdry also created another famous character, Dr.

3:21Kildare. Really? Yes. His name was Max Brand. Not his real name. His real name was Felix Faust. It gets weirder. But he wrote Death Rewrites again and a couple of more starring him, and he created Dr. Kildare. I follow him on TikTok.

3:37Dana Carvey:This is the kind of the thing that I didn't know about as a younger person. like okay so bob odenkirk were doing a western writing the script and it comes out brilliant it's so fucking funny but it's really really out there you know the studio goes what and uh i just thought i watch movies now and and directors talk about it obviously quentin tarantino like you would take desri rise again because i play an irish guy who's heard of the west and it's really fast with guns, but super humble. And I come to the town like this, you know, and John Lovitz is being, he's hanging, he's about to hang him.

4:15Dana Carvey:And he's next to signs that he put up. If I don't clean up the town, you can hang me. You know, he was, so it was that kind of, it was great. But I look at the nuts and bolts of a guy coming off the stage coach and everyone thinking he's kind of fey or whatever the word would be. And he's, and he's lethal. Anyway, I don't know what around this hand, but you're, you're in a film, you make films. What don't you write songs, you sing. What can't shut me up? What can't I do? You mean at my age, what can't I do? Yeah. As an artist stray too far from the bathroom is the, is the sad issue. Yeah. Michael used to always say, Aunt Bladder.

5:04Dana Carvey:Have you met my Aunt Bladder? She's a frisky one. She needs a lot of attention. Aunt Blabby? Aunt Blabby, but I'm saying I tried to get Aunt Bladder. I like that you switched there. Nice, nice. So, so good to have you back. Nice to have you. Michael might be our maybe second return guest. That's all, second. Well, we had a slight delay last time. We were with a difference. And now we have you just like this. We had a slight delay, which was very frustrating because you would go, you know what I hate? And then your mouth would move. And then you go, you see what I mean? And then we had to respond.

5:46Well, I just got off the line with three different people who were interviewing us. We were in character as our Spinal Tap guys. And so we had a little picture of this guy and watching him try and stretch 20 minutes worth of questions into 45 minutes worth of questions because he had us for all that time. So we got to watch him thinking about the next question and then realizing he was frozen.

6:17Yeah. So anyway, you guys, you're a refreshing change from a junket. Well who gets a junket gets 45

6:27Dana Carvey:That's a lot I was in Spiny 1 I don't know what the nickname is I was in Spiny 1 As the mime waiter Yes you were And now you've been told this But the trailer is really Fucking funny I loved it Do you remember the character that you came in for? The drummer? No you came in to uh there was a character in the original version we were first working on it called the tap head and he's just this guy who follows the band around and he kept showing up and then we thought he's a little overqualified to be that guy we really need more of a found object and then we we had the idea for the the mime thing and we said let's get this guy he's great now you know who we did cast as the tap head was eddie deason eddie deason anybody remember eddie deason from greece he may have been in greece was he the good choice in everything he was he the nerd from 1965 yeah yeah and he also historically here's an interesting point probably not interesting at all he was the earner of the one billionth dollar in residuals oh trivia saved the one billionth dollar of trivia of uh of payouts from residuals in motion pictures and michael i think you know how did they know there's a bar called residuals for the people at home.

8:07In the Valley, if you bring a check in for under a dollar, they put it on the wall. Is that true? And you're a free drink. Yeah. It's called residuals. And it's in a little strip mall. I've been there many times.

8:18Dana Carvey:No matter how small it is, if you ever look at a, you know, your monthly expenses and, you know, the debits and the credits and you see a buck 30 for something you did, it's kind of like, all right, kicking it, man. They're paying. you know my account i used to get go are you sure i'm the guest i'm the guest let me go um so i i uh i get these checks from ass and now like host alec baldwin host tom hanks and they're probably three cents each yeah but my accountant goes can you just tell them to send you one check for a dollar because we have to process every single one of them we got to put in like 300 checks just tell them to round it up to five bucks and call it one what will you get what's your residual story well it's it's it's just it's not that interesting it's just i used to do the pyramid game show back in the 70s and so every time in the beginning of the 20 000 pyramid or which they would have some celebrity wins so they'd have me or billy crystal or um you know uh suzanne summers, whoever it was, jumping up and down with the civilian that they just won the big money with.

9:35So they'd show three of those, and I would get paid for those. I would get paid, and again, it was a 48 cents a pop or something, but it was sort of lovely. It was like, I'm not in that show. I'm in the part of the show where people are just getting their coffee and sitting down. Nobody even sees that shit. It's like a montage. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah. You know, it's great. It shows you that SAG or the writers is working because someone's out there chasing to make sure they give you what you're supposed to get with whatever deal you made, which you don't even remember.

10:06Dana Carvey:I have a good one. Yeah, go. So they're doing a, it's an animated thing or it's dogs, I think. It's actual dog and you're, you do the voice. So a famous actor, I won't say, really famous. They didn't like the way he did his reading. so they brought me in but it was already his mouth was there so i had to match his rhythms and i kept saying this isn't gonna work isn't gonna work so they got someone else or whatever but then somehow i got into getting checks and these are tens of thousands of oh wow dollar checks that's excellent and i said to my you know my people i go i'm getting these checks and uh he said, just put it in a drawer.

10:52Don't tell anybody.

10:54Dana Carvey:I don't know how much I got, but it was big. And people are going to think like, well, what was the name of the movie and who was the actor? But anyway, that's my residual story. I think I kind of liked down these stories. Well, all three of our stories, tepid, but that's fine. We're getting warmed up. Yeah, I don't have a better one. what was the first time you knew you had uh a million dollars yeah it was the first year where you go okay i think i have a million dollars you don't have to answer that i just coming off i've always no i've always uh i don't really know i don't really know i mean are you counting real estate i don't know one actor until he got on marvel uh paul rudman we were just asking him these kind of questions just for fun and he just basically said it's till ant-man you know he had his character parts he was doing well but you know how the taxes and all this stuff yeah and all these things that people take out of all the places um and so it was surprising but you you never know where it's going to come from that's kind of a what put it this way what was the job that paid you way more than you thought you were going to get paid lenny well that was but that was lenny lenny and squiggy that was uh we started out i wasn't even in sag david lander and no david lander and i did those characters as part of the credibility gap harry and richard bb oh that's what started before laverne and surely before that david and i did those characters in college at carnegie and fitzburg jesus yeah so we and nine years later we did them on tv so it was a little different and they wanted to pay us like it was not even a big deal uh they couldn't give they couldn't give me the part until they auditioned at least one sag actor and i'm going to tell you who it was oh good it was a guy well it was a guy who who knew he wasn't going to get the part it was already no we got this guy but he doesn't have a sag card so we're gonna we have to audition somebody else and would you do it tim thomerson do we remember tim thomerson yeah of course yeah very very sweet guy big funny character yeah yeah yeah and he had he had a little part on happy days or something right next door so they auditioned him knowing and he knew he did not i'll read for it you know and it was him trying to do this guy you know it's it's basically every audition i had because i just didn't get it so i wish they told me ahead You're just not going to get it because he walks out like this.

13:34At least he goes, here you go. I'll do you guys a favor. I'm doing basically right.

13:38Dana Carvey:I for sure did a hundred in a row where I didn't get it. Oh yeah. Oh, easy. Early. When spinal tap. Oh, you didn't get it. And then they go, oh, they want you in the movie. You're going to be in a scene with Billy Crystal. At that time of my life, that was like, fuck. Let's go to Steakhouse, honey. Well, the weirdest one was Howard Hessman. his part didn't even exist 24 hours before he shot it. Whoa. We had hired, you know, the scene that Howard Hesman in, in, in spinal tap, they're in the lobby and he's the manager of this rocker who never really speaks. So we had hired this rock and roll guy.

14:16And we, while he was being fitted for wardrobe the day before, we realized the guy could barely fucking talk. He just not only couldn't act, he was just like kind of pre-verbal and scared shitless. So Rob goes, long hair. Reverb. Yeah, exactly. And Rob, Rob goes, you know what we should do? We should get him a manager. I'm going to call Howard Hessman. So we called Hessman, talked to him for about 10 minutes on the phone. And Howard came in fucking aced it. Smart. Just brilliant man. Great adjusting while you go. Like those things happen. No one knows about it. I had to do that.

14:54Dana Carvey:Yeah. Well, that was that whole movie. And I'm, I'm wondering about the style of this one. I assume it's the same. You've got Rob Reiner. And that was the sense that you guys, I guess there was more than a, there was an actual script. It wasn't just bullet points and you'll improvise, but how much improvisation was there? Or was it very specific? In this one? Then the first one and then this one. There were two written lines in the first film. That answers my question. Live, direct from hell, Spinal Tap was written. The guy at the very beginning. and Patrick McNeese toast and so say we all tap into America that was written everything else was improvised that's what I thought you know that's what I remember there's a movie there build it around it we pitched one where we said yeah we'll write the script and we tried for about a day and a half to write the script and we said man this is not fun and it's not going to yield what we want We want it to be like it's a thing that's really happening.

16:00So we said, well, let's just a nice thick Bible of who these guys are, who they've been throughout the years, what their relationships are now, and then go. And we broke it down. We got a big map of the U.S. and we we tagged the route, the route of the tour with post-it notes and wrote a lot of things on the back of Grimsby's, we called them, because they were postcards. it had pictures of roger grimsby the abc newscaster on them and she remember that we used to trade him as kids right and uh so we wrote the whole movie on the back of these grimsby's and that was you know some jokes you know some like maybe try this and well yeah i'm sure you go you have to kind of beat it out and going no no now the beginning's too heavy we're not we don't or just done in the editing like you go get as much as we can everywhere and it's five hours or something then you got to start going what's important you just feel it for comedy and if

16:57Dana Carvey:you have guys that are extremely talented sorry i had to say that but it might be embarrassing but it was just so popped so hard you know it's just one hire and all this stuff you all you guys did i kevin pollock and i did a cockney british or sort of a spinal tab accent whenever for like a couple years we actually played blackjack we were playing harris and we were up there just you up doing that you know go we're just possessed by that movie like a lot of people and so i was thrilled and i'll let you talk after this that there's a sequel now because it's the perfect time because all these other bands are out there long in the tooth yeah so it like it wouldn't have been a sequel in the 80s wouldn't it this is very funny and that's why it really hit me hard like oh this is what who they are now is so funny so anyway talk to that you have you have to understand one other thing when the film came out you probably know this it was not a huge box office success no and it didn't really find its legs until it took off in home video and people would talk about it like it was oh you got to see this weird fucking comedy and uh so we kind of we kind of picked up a little steam that way so three or four years down the line they started talking about doing a sequel and we said no i think we told the tale i think we we got it we briefly talked about doing a a making a film that purportedly had happened 20 years before in the 60s when they were young pop stars and there was this piece of shit exploitation film built around them about the persona which was a funny idea but we were all cresting 40 at that point to say no they don't they don't have the tech to make us look any younger so they do now but yeah the other thing is timing wise uh we did not have the rights to this material we had to make phone calls and make deals with people who go final tap to record a spinal tap make personal appearances you know in some way just make some foreign commercials so um which didn't amount to much we had to make these deals and so harry shearer who has what we call simpsons money uh yeah he says guys i'll do i'll do the i'll do the stuff we're gonna sue we're gonna get the rights back and we did and we did and then we said well now it's like the the dog who chases the car he finally catches what they're doing yeah now we'll make a fucking movie i guess so we you know we made this film and it was kind of the reunion that the read the guys are dragged kicking and screaming to a to a reunion they really have no regard for one another a lot of bad blood and we thought maybe that'd be the premise and do a big show and um maybe get some guest stars in which we were very lucky that sure the area so it kind of for sure yeah it was fun and also just minimal script or outline and just plant being playful yeah did you because three lines of this because spinal tap exists then you're doing spinal tap too what was the mindset of that like let's go to where we go before now we're doing something different or it was just instantly different because 40 years 40 years makes it different you know well it's also where the characters are now 40 years down the road of having this hatchet job which we assumed he only shot the he only showed us with the bad shit he only showed us when things were going wrong he only showed us when we couldn't find the stage and all this stuff what about the night we could find the stage so we we had a lot of animosity and alleged lawsuits and everything but then we're reunited with marty de berge we make the best of a bastard bad situation and we just go ahead and make the film i i still to this day i don't know uh if i'm at a theater or something and get tangled up or kind of lost i said i always say i feel like i'm in spinal tap yeah it is one of those things that is a real thing but it was so funny the way you guys did it in the movie i play theaters i think i'm in kandahar i'm like underneath and they go this was built a hundred years ago i go minimum and there's no they're like there's no working water there's no elevators we just sort of wing it well then you you ask the guy you go excuse me because you know it's kind of passive aggressive but is there a way to get to the stage because i'm going on oh you oh you want to go on the stage oh you go down you know yeah i hear my intro music they're like oh that's you go up these hundred steps i'm always winded jeff beck and eric clapton actually had that experience together.

21:51They were playing at B.B. King's 75th birthday party

21:55Dana Carvey:at the Apollo, and they got lost beneath the stage. And then Jeff said, yeah, at one point we just looked at each other and went, we're in that fucking movie now. So you guys just thought of that, or was it based on something like that that happened to somebody? It just seemed funny. I don't remember what the source was. Yeah, for sure. Those theaters are so complicated. show up it did show up in a tom petty documentary where they got it was this huge german entertainment complex and in stuttgart or someplace and they kept walking into tennis courts and stuff but that happened after the movie that's but not but before the movie came out we had shot the film and then we saw the tom petty and oh we got that right sometimes they say you don't want to go through the crowd right and i'm like go before i go i'd rather not and i go okay we can figure this out and then they're they don't yeah yeah so you're like in the kitchen then you're in the pantry and then you're in the attic and i'm like we're trying to get to the stage right i don't know what you guys are doing i'm trying to i got a show in about three minutes so and it makes you nervous because you're about to go on and you want to i have to think about my high quality jokes you know they are high quality you have such high quality um good way you know i'm glad you went that direction i changed it yeah i went michael and i spent a really nice chunk of time on coneheads yeah i tried to give him the me's no chicken pox um oh my god you remember this story i think i told you that i was i whispered to the uh pa don't tell anyone but i think i have i do have a chicken pox so we're gonna try to keep this kind of he's like oh for sure boop alarms so clear the set and And then I'm worse.

23:40I only had them like, it was so weird. Anyway, we talked with Nick Kroll yesterday. We were talking about Coneheads. Because they said you were coming on. We all start laughing about Coneheads. And how many people were in it. And how many celebrity cameos. It was pretty crazy. Yeah. And how we were kind of the bad guys in that. But it was pretty fun to do. It was really fun to be a part of Dan Aykroyd doing Coneheads again and all that stuff. Do you remember the day that he lost his temper and tore his head off? I just knew this second. He had some friends coming, and they tied him up at the gate, wouldn't let in, wouldn't let the guys in.

24:25It was a couple of his biker pals, as I recall. So he heard about this. God damn it. God damn it. He curses so like a Canadian. God damn it. And he reached up and he ripped the top of his head off. And I thought, man, if this, yeah. And it was just this white foam rubber under there. Foam everywhere, yeah. It's scary, yeah. And he's talked off. And looking like that, he went out to the, you know, the booth there, the guard gate, and he ripped the phone off the wall.

25:00Dana Carvey:Yeah, he's a pretty big guy. I'm making this up. He's a big guy, yeah. And that's solved everything. It was bad. Yeah, and Dan doesn't get mad to him. I mean, he did that whole movie. No, he's Canadian sweetheart. You know, the houses are haunted. There's a cult of spies. He loves outer space and it's fun to be around a guy that talented and iconic and he really wants to talk about the other things and haunted rooms and he's very passionate about it. Oh, yeah. Oh, believe me. There is proof. there is proof uh his his brother his brother lived right above the uh chateau marmont peter okay yeah i think and we went after shooting one maybe you were with us we went to watch date not dateline what's the show night nightline the abc show with ted copple in the early days and so he said we're all gonna go look we're gonna watch uh ted copple but come on over to the house first we'll go up on peter's roof and uh maybe we'll try some of this stuff that we got it's a it's a it's a real buffalo weed he called it so and it was it was three tokes and i was catatonic but i do remember not being able to speak or move and he comes up and he's uh michael uh ted koppel's on so we're gonna go watch ted koppel would you like to come down with us he was like afraid i was gonna like levitate or something and i said no i'm i'm good here i'm good here and then he started talking to me about what they had seen in the sky from just right here really late at night you know when the storefront windows go out you can really see all the action up there and that god i love you dan he's so great he goes there you see him every day you saw him one at the grove today at zara they're here you know you go in the room and you know that it's haunted and you you don't want to be afraid because you know the spirits are not giving off that vibe have you you know i i i don't think i've ever thrown any costume off in a in a in a fit have you ever torn any well garth you know when you're on snl lorne i'm telling you no no i haven't i was there i was there for such a short period of time yes it was really like i was kind of bright breaking the job in just as i was handed the walking papers you know so i did never quite sure whether i had any power or not how many shows did you do 26 like a full a little bit was that a season and more it was a season it was the last six of the season before so was mark mckinney with you yeah in the middle of the second season yeah okay one of the one of the nicest men in the world right yeah pretty much awesome guy awesome guy and another canadian it must be something in the water wife's canadian full disclosure that's okay my wife my wife's from canada born in canada well my mine's from texas so oh okay whoa whoa what does that mean i don't know whatever that means yeah it means nothing she knows where knows where the good mexican food is in houston so it's a big plus as far as i'm concerned so you how do you how do you get let go of uh SNL, what happens?

28:19You know what? They were just kind of cleaning house. They kept you. We had a lot of people, though. That was one of those years where like 22 people were involved.

28:28Dana Carvey:This is 94.5? 94.5, yeah. And they know Barley was leaving. Adam was leaving. They decided to go home. And I'll tell you this. I always say this. I followed the very best impression of Clinton. uh it was paul uh phil phil yeah film easily easily the best ever i followed his with mine which was just sort of an overweight barney barney fife it wasn't it wasn't a good and and i was followed by i was followed by daryl who did the second best yeah daryl daryl has an ear so you know i i part of it was being hired to uh to play your dad david to be the older presence that they were going to miss when Phil left.

29:19But, you know, Phil took a lot more with him than just one thing. He was remarkable.

29:23Dana Carvey:You guys ever have things that pop up that you sort of are somewhere in your mind of you feel had a weird feeling about it? So I had it with you when I was guest hosting. It's late in the show. I'm overwhelmed. I don't know if it's between Dress and Air or the day of the show, but Lauren and you came in and you had a really good Howard Stern. And it was like saying I was interested in doing that. And I was just too overwhelmed to say yes, but I felt it felt strange to me when I think of it now because of you, my fondness for you. And I and also that you were incredibly famous when I was still a waiter, basically.

29:59Dana Carvey:So Laverne and Shirley. So anyway, I don't know if you remember that, you know, but I never heard your Howard Stern. But I did Howard on the fifth show of the first six that I did. and it went really well and Howard loved it I'd been on his show a bunch of times before and I have a pretty good, I always had a pretty good relationship with him because I told him the first time I spoke with Howard Stern I said, you must know going in that I think all morning men on the radio should be killed but I told him that, so we're good you love that, yeah for sure and he did love the impression which was nice and I wasn't eager to jump right in with with more Howard Stern I was I wanted to do a lot of different stuff you know I had and uh you know I had I think I pitched one other thing but I I didn't love the idea of anybody uh kind of like it if I remember anything about that moment it's that it felt thrown in and uh I think it was kind of a Hail Mary or last minute to fill some Maybe a cold opening or something.

31:11Maybe something happened. Yeah, I don't remember. Yeah, you know, you had a good move, which was, I always remember, a tiny thing about Stern when he laughs, you go, poof. It was a different thing I hadn't heard. Yeah, and I was like, oh, that's right. When you hear stuff like that and you, I listen to him so much, and I go, oh, no one's done that. That's great. Yeah. It's hard to find those little tiny hooks. I'm not a big impression guy. I did like five people on total on, you know, but I did do the best George Will, you know, Dana's, Dana's George Will is excellent too. I remember hearing that.

31:49Dana Carvey:You know, I mean, in recent times, like Kate McGinnon, which was very funny. I mean, she would be doing somebody who was the mayor of New York during 9-11. Sorry. Oh, yeah. Giuliani? Giuliani and she would just she'd play him like a Batman character like I'm Giuliani and she does so there was like true impressionism if you take it almost like art or abstractionism like I'm not even going to attempt but I'm going to do something that feels like this guy and I always loved impressions that aren't super accurate but to have something about them that's even better than the actual because now yeah as you know Newsflash AI could do the greatest AI is the greatest impressionists in the world if copying is going to kill us all and you also that's what i love about about uh bill hater's impressions is it's they're always accurate enough to make you go oh fucking he's nailing and you realize he's he's going to go a little wide with it and it's going to stay against his vincent price or his uh keith morrison keith morrison because of that weird like devilish smile like he's taking so much glee in it so yeah yeah we we love bill hater he's you know he's at the beginning of snl they would have chevy chase which some people remember in the old days did or they would do gerald ford as himself he would just say i'm the president i'd wear a suit here and and i think nixon by yeah akward was the same thing so now it's so good those departments of making you look 99 like the person already well just get a little voice no one suggested that that uh dan shave his mustache so he was nixon with a mustache and you know and they couldn't talk him out of out of the stash that was probably coming from like improv or something where you go right went with the bike But like he has an improv, they just get up and go, you're doing this and this.

33:52And they go, you don't need all that. Yeah. Well, there's a reminder about I'm reading a book now by Jeffrey Sweet. And it's a re it's a revamped version of a book he wrote in 78 called Something Wonderful Right Away, which is the story of Second City, starting with the compass players before starting with Viola Spolin, really the early days where you were lucky to have a chair and a table. And, you know, I think that that's what you said is very true. Nobody's nobody's expecting us to look exactly like Nixon at this point. I'm doing my really funny Nixon. And it works. Yeah. And it works. And it's great.

34:32Because you didn't know they could do all this makeup. And then suddenly just over time, it just evolves. And it's very good. Yeah. By the way, you did you did the Invisible Man with Chevy Chase. Is that true? I did. Yeah. Well, how was that? That's that wasn't I was right when it was during his full heyday. He's a big star. well it was 92 i guess and it was uh it was john carpenter who i really liked a lot we had a lot of fun because i was a big fan of uh you know of his stuff the thing especially i think i was just

35:04Dana Carvey:gonna say maybe the best yeah the thing is maybe the best science fiction horror film of all time is that right i would have no argument with that wilford brimley it was first time i've seen him just this brilliant presence and uh kurt russell and uh dickie mazer and uh all these horrible dogs who would explode on us and stuff it was just great yeah and i told them i was down yeah yeah i i actually got into it and i said i'm gonna tell you why that movie wasn't a hit because there's no girls in it girls are not going to go see this movie unless there's a dame in trouble unless they have someone to pull for this is a bunch of fucking bros who are getting their asses kicked from the inside by these horrible creatures.