Mike Myers and Paul Myers Talk Beatles and John Candy!

24:13Dana Carvey:We do flow together nicely. Yes. Oh, yeah. All my important people are Canada. Yeah. It doesn't matter. It's madness. We have a very important announcement. Yes. It's your brother's shirt, and there's a difference in the order. John, Paul. We got these. So why the Ringo before George? Yeah, this is interesting. Yeah. It's what we call a whim. It was a whim. It was me not remembering how the sequence went, and I'm feeling very pro-Ringo at the time. And we had somebody, we had a friend. This is based on an international jet set design. That's the name of the company. And they had George III. And I know that he's the third songwriter in the band, and that's why he's third.

25:01Right. I was feeling so pro-Ringo that I had the shirts commissioned. Mike has one somewhere in storage, I think. It was not in storage. It's just it didn't make it down to New York yet. I guess that's what I meant. You're storing it somewhere else. Easy with the storage accusations. It's in Provo, Utah, and it's all very hush-hush.

25:19Dana Carvey:Yeah, it's very quiet. Something with a data center, Elon Musk, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. It's all good. So strictly need to know. But getting back to Beatle Nerd for a second, Paul and Ringo had their own special relationship as the rhythm section. so i always wanted to and you guys can relate to this back to the beatles 1965 my dad was an ex-army guy so he would literally give us crew cuts me and my three older brothers there are four of us there's three of you guys and i always wanted to have kind of beetle-y messy hair around around 1965 so and obviously paul kind of as well that's not it's it's disoriented but you you That's not a hair piece.

26:05Dana Carvey:That's your actual hair because it is amazing. Who? Mine or Paul's? Well, your hair is just very... Your hair looks cool. It's military. Mike always had good hair. Even back on the show, I was quietly jealous. As gray as it stays, that's my theory. Oh, yeah. Mike, how do you feel about me telling the secrets of your childhood haircuts? Because Mike was the guy who, if he didn't like the barber in the family haircut, he would storm out and say, I'm going to go get my own haircut and we were like you can do that and I had the money to do it that was my hero how old were you when you said this I did TV commercials oh really yeah were you cute I was cute but can I just say that were you cute that you just the reading of that was maybe the creepiest reading of were you cute I've ever heard of my life there was an undertone I didn't want to mention it comes out once in a while I don't know what it means I'm not going to go there Mike I learned that when I was in an airplane when you say to a baby oh my god you're so cute you have to say it like that you can't go oh my god you're good looking yes take it down it is all in there I'm just kidding I'm going to get a coca cola get a coca cola I want to do one thing before we get in the Beatles anyway, which is Paul wrote a book.

27:36Dana Carvey:Yeah, there we go. Yes, it's true. Paul wrote a book about John Candy. Do you want to tell that journey of where you wrote the book and then what happened with the documentary? There it is. Yeah. John Candy, a life in comedy. Well, the story of me writing that book, thank you very much for mentioning it, Dana. The story of me writing that book is that I had written a book about the Canadian sketch legends, the kids in the hall. and uh that's right and that was published by a company called house of a nancy press and they they really liked the book and they said you know we want you to do another book and i wanted to do like a sketch comedy book and then my editor actually said my a guy named doug richmond he said uh if you do it about just john candy from second city you could also get to talk about all those cool movies he made and i was like dude that's that's my next book and i and i spent three and a half years sort of you know searching out steve martin dan akroyd katherine o 'hara uh pretty much everybody who you need to talk to and people that you didn't know you needed to talk to like people who worked on the shows people who worked in the cruise and and people who wrote some of the scenes for sctv that you don't hear their names all the time and it was just they all had stories about john and i put together this idea of who john candy was and why we still love him like 30 years after he died.

28:54We miss him. He might be one of the most universally liked performers. Literally I have never heard one negative thing about him.

29:02Dana Carvey:It's true. He was very nice to me. So you wrote this book, which I'm reading, by the way, and I'm loving it because for me, being in the world I'm in, I went up through stand-up, but Mike went through different Second City and all that. So it's very interesting how through John Candy, you go you're really getting into the nitty gritty details which i have to say it is different reading this book than the the documentary that is out that is great that weirdly came out and i remember talking to colin hanks and going you know paul myers is doing a book about you know john candy and he went huh he walked away no i made that up but um that can be great but this book is so detailed and so experiential as far as the grease paint and the food and everything.

29:49Dana Carvey:I'm just really enjoying it. So great job. Well, thank you. You know, when I was writing the book, I knew that they were the Candy family who I consulted before I even started doing. That's Jennifer, Chris, and the mother, Rose, and, you know, John's widow, Rose. And they are great people. And I contacted Jennifer and I said, I want to do this book. This is three years ago. I want to do this book about John Candy. I'm going to be respectful to your dad, who's a hero of mine. I wrote about these kids in the hall, and I'm familiar with the world of Second City through my brother. And she said, oh, we know who you are.

30:24We think you're going to do a great job, but we are making a film of our own, so I hope you don't mind. But we're going to make our own movie. And I said, oh, cool. And at that point, Colin Hanks wasn't involved. And then I kept following their progress, but I didn't know where they were. And then we announced about a year ago, October 7th was our release date for John Candy. a life in comedy thank you and uh i've got about two months by paul myers yes house of anancy press you know it's available everywhere and then about somewhere in that process about two months later there was an announcement that they were premiering their film uh ryan reynolds produced colin hanks directed uh i like me and it was going to be on amazon three days after our book comes out and you might think that's like a bad timing but i think it's the best timing it's like because now everyone's seeing the pictures of John Candy and a generation that maybe didn't even know the genius of John Candy is now conversing to him to the point where they're going to want to read.

31:20Yeah, it's not another. Yeah, so it's been working. And Ryan reached out to me too afterwards and he said, let's do an event together. So we're on the same team. We're all on Team Candy.

31:28Dana Carvey:Yeah, and I do think that, yeah, it's not like it's another biography about John Candy. They can work together and the awareness now, it usually comes in threes, but it is interesting historically where all of a sudden everyone goes john candy you know and i only knew him through his movies and second city and that but it's his journey what did you i'm just curious off obviously his kindness and his all that is there what what was the other surprises about your investigation sort of or your your immersive thing of finding out who this guy was i was surprised to learn and I guess it made sense that he was a great actor first before he even wanted to be a comic or comedian.

32:11He, he, he'd started on the stage in Toronto and he'd been, his idols were people like Charles Lawton. You would never think that, you know, but, and Jackie Gleason, of course. So he, he loved comedy. He was a huge fan of the Dick Van Dyke show and things like that, but he really wanted to do dramatic arts. And if you think about it, the I'm going to sound like an egghead here, but the emotional intelligence that he brought to his roles, even a big broad character like Ox from Stripes, he brought that certain actorly sense of this isn't just a guy making a joke. This is somebody who has a life, you know, and it doesn't have to show you the life.

32:49It's just there. And he presents it. And I don't know nothing about acting, but I know that he seemed like he had something going on there. And that confirmed by people like Oliver Stone, who said, when he put him in JFK. Remember John Candy had a small part in JFK and it was a very serious role. And Candy's commitment to getting the New Orleans accent and working on actually portraying Dean Andrews Jr., Oliver Stone said, this guy could do anything. This guy should be, he kind of predicted that he would be on the Academy Awards best actor list at some point. Sadly, he passed away before having a chance to really do that.

33:24But it was 1994. So we were all on the show, or you were done, Dana, by then? Yeah, I was still on the show. I just left. Mike was still on. I think Mike was. Mike, are you still there? 94? Yeah. Shit, because, I mean, I was, of course, hit through those movies from, you know, Uncle Buck to even Blues Brothers. It's always fun to see a movie where they're all about, like, buddies. You can tell, and he's like, the orange whip, orange whip, orange whip. But just bringing, when you throw him anything, you can't stop watching him. You just know if this guy says yes to this movie, I don't care what size the part is.

34:03That's a guy. And then you just grow to say, oh, this guy, I have to see what he does. So that was a fun for me. Never saw him though.

34:11Dana Carvey:He almost hosted SNL once, but he didn't. He almost, there was rumors he was going to come in and host SNL, but. Well, he almost joined the cast. And Andrew Alexander at Second City said, I'll pay you anything to not do the cast of SNL. They'd been losing. They lost Aykroyd and Gilda to SNL. And this is the Second City stage, right? So before SCTV ever went on the air, they had started, Lorne had started raiding the cast, which is obviously you would, if you're Lorne Michaels, get the best people available. And Second City didn't have a TV show yet. And the whole reason for SCTV was as a way to stop from hemorrhaging talent.

34:51And they ended up making their own version of it. And you can see in the book, I just want to say Dan Aykroyd is a great connective tissue in this book because not only did you know john candy first audition for second city stage because of dan ackroyd ackroyd and valerie bronfield pushed him into auditioning he gets picked up sent to chicago to work with bill murray um and learn comedy ropes with a young bill murray and then uh and then he gets and then ackroyd puts him in the blues brothers they were in 1941 together the steven spielberg comedy um and then uh you know the great outdoors and uh and it's just like all through it and then ackroyd wrote the most amazing eulogy at john's los angeles funeral and that is why when i went to dan ackroyd after writing this book and having these great stories i said there's no one else i want to have to write the forward

35:41Dana Carvey:but dan ackroyd and he just did it i'm reading the forward going who wrote this it's so poetic and then i finally oh dan ackroyd you know a minute ago before we have technical difficulties Mike, you had an intersection. I just want to hear that for a second. Oh, yeah. Mike, tell the great story about you and John Candy. There's only two people that I've ever waited outside a stage door for. One was Lily Tomlin, and the other one was John Candy. And John came out, and I said, oh, John, I'm a big fan. I want to do what you do. And he said, you should join the Second City Workshops. And he told me where it was and all that stuff.

36:22And Tim Kazarinsky was there, and he was super, super positive and helpful. So I went and took the Second City workshops after seeing him. And then after Wayne's World, I went up to Toronto to visit my family, and I was at Wayne Gretzky's restaurant. Couldn't be more Canadian than that. And across the way is John Candy. Sorry, John Candy. And I was like, holy shit, he's coming over. I said it was a joke to my friend. And he was. And he came over and gave me a big hug. So happy for a Scarborough boy to do so well. And congratulations. He was just so incredibly gracious and fantastic. And that actually meant more to me than a lot of things that happened during that really exciting time of Wayne's World.

37:09Dana Carvey:It's always surreal. And whenever people pass the torch, you're like, you must have people come up to you, Mike. And you saw them in something. And, you know, it's very nice if it means something to some young performer. You know, the only thing I say to people is someone at a hocus store, this woman. I'm in the groundlings. And I said, the only thing I say, it's not profound at all. I just say, just work on yourself. Don't listen to who's making it or anybody else. All you can do is try to be better. It's pretty obvious. She's like, oh, okay. Because it's easy to get caught up in the drama and neurosis and unfairness of show business and the pressure.

37:48Dana Carvey:I still talk about that. Yeah, Spade and I are, well, we'll talk later. But anyway, so yeah. Unfair, the podcast. The book, John Candy, A Life in Comedy. And boy, Uncle Buck playing trains at automobiles with Steve Martin. That was such a, that one hits hard. Yeah. That's a perfect movie. Yeah, it's such, it was so great. James Hughes, the son of John Hughes, talked to me about just the relationship that his father, John Hughes, had with John Candy. and when you realize that the two families would vacation together and they they're both from like uh you know hughes is from chicago where he's a hockey fan and they have snowy winters and john of course is from toronto where they have snowy winters and hockey and they had a lot in common beyond that and then they both moved to brentwood around the same time and so they were both adjusting to sort of being outsiders in hollywood but they were both at the peak of their careers so when he wrote plane strains and automobiles hughes he really understood who john candy was as the lead and he kind of put a lot of truth into it and there's that great speech the uh what we call the i like me scene where john john carrot his character del griffith finally erupts at steve martin and says you know i like me my wife likes me my kids like me you know and it's it you know my customers like me and i'm who i am and i'm not changing and it's like it could be John Candy talking.

39:11And that's one of those great moments like De Niro and Scorsese, where you have the two of them together. I said Scorsese, Scorsese, sorry. I was busting myself for no reason. Nobody was gonna bust me and I just went and did that. Mike knows all of that.

39:25Dana Carvey:I was just reading through your book and mentioning some of it to my wife. And then she just said, just casually, it's not something that hasn't been talked about before. But when you read the book, you go, What the hell is it with Canada, with this low population, with this massive Hall of Fame comedian? 80 % of Canada is good comedians. It's kind of crazy and all coalescing in this same time. You know, it's sort of mind-blowing. And then the sensibility of SCTV did seem quintessentially Canadian. or there's something about that show for an American watching it and just going, holy shit, there's just a frequency therein that is not American.

40:08Dana Carvey:But man, was it funny. And it's not English either. Yeah, what is it? It's somewhere in between. We're an observer nation. You know what I mean? Yeah. Because we don't have – I mean, we have an identity. Actually, the kids today in Canada have way more sense of themselves than we did growing up. And what would you describe that identity as? it's um it's well you have a lot of creative icons and lorne michaels have emerged over at least in the arts yeah and also musicians but i think of a the nicest country i've ever been in is canada as far as the people treating me i just i was freaky yeah yeah they they love both of you guys up there but can i just say i'd like to take i'd like to take the question a little bit and say that I have talked to a lot of, because I did the Kids in the Hall book last.

41:01And Kids in the Hall and Mike and Dan Aykroyd and Catherine O 'Hara and Eugene Levy, all these people have shown a generation and two generations and three generations what it means to be funny on the world stage, but also to be quintessentially Canadian while you're doing it. And then what happened was a lot of these people, this happened in a lot of areas with the YouTube generation. There's a lot of people that are just making comedy. they don't even think beyond the borders of the internet so they're they accidentally make something that's regional and specific for canadians so they have their own heroes and they never we never used to we used to get validation from outside sources and we still do but but you know just like the beatles had to go around the world but they they still kept their liverpool thing and i think that i think that's what's going on in contemporary canada is we've got a whole i say we i i i don't live there but i just spent a lot of time there recently I found that in Calgary people just had their own thing and they would love to export it and they do but they're really not thinking about not all thinking about taking it away I mean I love Canada and if I'd stayed in Canada I'd be fine and all that stuff but I really did want to come to America you know what I mean because that's the center of the center or I wanted to be in England and I was in both places I went to England to be part of the English comedy thing and I think that's kind of but they also just I knew one thing I could probably be a hockey player because I'm from Canada and I could probably be in comedy do you know what I mean

42:32Dana Carvey:one or the other one or the other well you've seen it happen I know that we can do that you know what I mean it seemed possible have you considered both were you thought when they were kids were you taught or was the mindset America's inferior to Canada or better or the same like were you saying I should I really want to make it in America or they thought America's not where you want to be that's no i would say i'd say i think the world recognizes that american show business is the best in the world you know i mean okay and uh that's why you know even on wayne's world you know uh we had a dutch camera guy and check clapper loader and like everybody was from everywhere else you know i mean and uh it really is the in terms of entertainment you know sure i mean they say that the star wars program brought down soviet union you know sdi but i think it was the movie star wars more than anything where they went holy shit you have enough story power and enough economy power to make a whole other universe you know i mean that's better than our universe you know what you know what's interesting about that story too is that you mentioned star wars and what happened was you know america is the show the show right and that's what happened with you know all the people who go to lauren takes the show and creates lauren michaels creates snl in in new york city and he always tells people like the kids in the hall learn how to have your show play in indianapolis you know learn how to you know it's not just about the borders where you are it's about everyone seeing it and all the uh the platforms right but when star wars started interesting thing because there's a an animation program at sheridan college in toronto that they they helped create industrial light and magic and so they drained all the talent from sheridan college and created this thing in marin county and it's it was initially staffed by like i don't know the percentages but around 60 percent canadian i didn't know that and it's again they come to the show bring the world and the beatles came to the show you know the beatles wanted to be on edson they they were conquered britain but they hadn't conquered America.

44:39American show business is just the best in the world. And, you know, even my mom when she saw Wayne's World, she said, oh, that Dane is very good, isn't he?

44:46Dana Carvey:Oh, she was funny that way. She was funny that way. And she was like, it's just Americans, they have it, don't they? Just Americans just have it. Not all. Well, you got Canada, also Jim Carrey. Jim Carrey, yeah. He's fantastic. Yeah. Exploded. Norm MacDonald. The Norm MacDonald. People think I'm from Canada. Norm MacDonald. T-H-E-E. There is no other Norm Macdonald, God rest his soul. I mean, his ad hoc. So anyway. What about Great Outdoors? Is that a John Candy? Yeah. Yeah, John Candy and Ben Ackroyd, two-hander, as they say. Yeah, it was great. And it was so, anyone who watches that from Canada will see that that's what we call the cottage, you know, which you would call cabin life, you know.

45:30And it's totally like Southern Ontario kind of setting, but it's actually set in California. But, you know, that's what you did in Wayne's World, Mike. You made Aurora, Illinois be basically a stand-in for Scarborough, Ontario, right? Yeah, but then the North American suburbs are all the same. You know what I mean? Yeah. And heavy metal is all the same everywhere. You see kids in Argentina dressed like Wayne and Garth. You know what I mean? It's true. Heavy metal culture, that kind of thing. Yeah, true. But Penelope did a great job, too, just creating an authentic world for that movie. Yeah, because she knew the terrain.

46:10Dana Carvey:We had, via, of course, Mike, the creator, you know, Stan Mikita's, you know, a lot of stuff from your childhood. But it's all variations on a theme. And, you know, I only had my own little theory. It was just that the two guys, we live with our parents. We have an AMC Pacer. We're nowhere. We have no real money. And we're just the happiest people. And my family too, I had brothers and sister, we were, we would make rituals out of stuff, you know, everything would be a game or you, we'd be watching a Boris Karloff movie, all night movies, and you have to run to the mailbox and come back and stuff like you guys did, I'm sure.

46:55Dana Carvey:and um that's was what makes wayne's world just being fun you know because they're having fun almost all the time besides the truth i don't know who was trying to steal your love interest roblo the first one yeah anyway besides that go ahead but as brothers just for a second in canada there's a rumor that you guys were rough and tumble like you threw mike out in the snow one day or something. I mean, I had all kinds of stuff like that. Oh, yeah. I mean, we... Guilty. Was it like the first week of... first year of Saturday Night Live when we were at the Rivoli and we had a fist fight? Remember that?

47:34Yeah, I... Cool. As was happens, I can't remember why on earth it got to that level. I don't know, but we often fought. It would often be like Scottish people would just, I love you. Get out! It may have been whether the buzzcocks were better than the sex pistols or something like that. Something that really doesn't matter now. But at the time, it's like... It was very fast. Alcohol was involved. Beers were involved.

47:59Dana Carvey:Did anyone get someone in a headlock and the guy in the headlock said, cut it out, cut it out. Did it go to that level? Oh, Peter used to do that. My brother Peter used to do spit suck. That thing. That's horrifying. Oh, yeah. Flags? The movie almost gets to your head. Yeah, I was a bottom in that situation. All the flags of the world on your stomach. And then the last one was Japan, which was wham. Well, it's just people with not a lot of money. It's cold and you're inside and it's a Sunday afternoon. Yeah. You're like bouncing. I once dragged Mike around by his pulling his ankles and his head hit the side of a counter and you got a small cut on your head.

48:46and I thought I'd killed you. And I was like, and I remember thinking, looked at your face and you were like, what the hell, what the hell? And I was like, geez, is it raining in here? And it was my blood. I looked like a wrestler. Is it raining like the shining in here? Yeah, yeah. And what I love is my reaction, my reaction to having thought I'd killed my brother is I got on my little 10 speed bike and I ran, I rode to the end of the street, hid in a park for two hours and thought, I guess the statute of limitations is up. I can come home now. You know, it was like, I don't understand why I thought that was the solution if I really had killed him.

49:19Just make a break for it.

49:22Dana Carvey:But we were great. Yeah, we did. Well, I don't know if I had fights. I just got beat up a lot. But it was quick. I was pint-sized and three older brothers. But mostly we just had a lot of fun. My brother, Brad, he fixed this old machine where you slid a thing like it was a bowling alley. We did get a bumper pool table. And then we would just play. And we were left alone. It was pre-micromanaging parenting, obviously. No one knew where you were. Had no helmets, you know, all that stuff. Mike? Lawn darts, right? Illegal. Imagine lawn darts now. Yeah, jarts. Yeah. We played with darts and I threw it and it went like that and it just hit my brother inside his thigh where it was sticking out.

50:17Darts and jarts should be illegal still. They should be or should not be? They should be. I think they were pretty – I mean, jarts, a few kids and they would have died from jarts.

50:29Dana Carvey:All right. So just as a background here. So I just thought for myself, I thought, But every time we talk about the Beatles, I love it. And I've been on Paul Myers' podcast. The official name or where you get it is Paul Myers' podcast. The Record Store Day podcast with Paul Myers. It's sponsored by Record Store Day, but it's on every week of the year. Thank you for that. Okay. So, well, we went on that. And I realized, of course, with Mike over the years, the Beatles and the Clash. He has other pump playing. He does. Beatle Fanatic. And then when I meet him, I can recognize one. And then you were crazy into the Beatles.

51:04Dana Carvey:So I thought I called Mike and I had the best time though. Yeah. No, when you were on our show, by the way, I pimped you to just talk about Paul McCartney. And I think the promise I made to you was, cause I know I'm sensitive to comedians doing freebies on other. I said, you won't have to do material. You don't have to do material. Just come on and talk about the Beatles and music. And that's all we want you to do. And that Fred Armisen has been on the show for the same reason. And, and I knew that you got it because music was such a big, you know, chopping broccoli you know like you knew music it's and that's why it wasn't that sophisticated but thank you let it be i don't mind i i could do paul this paul now today i could do him all day long you know i just i'm doing it older but i never can get tired of the question thing at the end yeah i get a bit older but uh so anyway so i called i called mike and just said do you want come on with paul because he's because i just love talking about the beatles so that was the idea and then we now we're here and so let's talk about the beatles but um i think it took us five seconds to say yes by the way uh we'll do it again but uh so anyway as a way to start off because i there's the reason we talk about the beatles is because we want to celebrate them i think because why are you talking about the beatles again and we come up with what album whatever okay so here's the first one i'll do i do sometimes better melody and i love her or she's leaving home

52:37she's leaving home for me do you want to take this one yeah i agree i think i think i think so

52:44Dana Carvey:she's leaving home is maybe underrated only because we hear let it be and hey jude and a lot of different songs a lot out in the world yeah super bowl or in canada you know but what What is your favorite melody, though? My favorite melody is Martha, My Dear. Oh, that's good. Another McCartney, by the way. I think Michael McKeon might have said that was the best Beatles song. I think so, too. It's like almost a little Mozart-y. It's got chamber pop. It could have been played in a Victorian sitting room. It could have been on a spinet piano. I want to get back to She's Leaving Home before we move on to that, though, because She's Leaving Home does something that McCartney, he was the adventurous one most of the time with the melodies.

53:29And I think John was pushing the envelope with chords and production. But She's Leaving Home does this, Friday morning of the night. Very pop. And then there's a counterpoint with the strings, like the, and they're all like, it's like two swans or eagles or something. And that is the most exciting thing with McCartney when he does that. And I think also he's telling a story in that song that is more literal than most of his stories, you know, because I love Paul McCartney, but a lot of times it's definitely stream of consciousness to the point where what the hell is he talking about? I mean, one of my favorite songs is Getting Closer from Wings later album, Back to the Egg.

54:12And he talks about my salamander and gotta beware of snipers in the middle of a song that's a happy song about driving. What about I Am the Walrus, though? i mean oh yeah see i'm the walrus is john's fantastic well it that's one of those songs

54:29Dana Carvey:that shouldn't exist and does exist and i still would say it's not even the 2025 hasn't caught up to it right good point and you think the lyrics are gibberish but the whole is greater than some of the parts yellow man and custard dripping from a dead dog's eye it's like i don't need to know try to figure that out. I'm just feeling. That man spoke for my generation with that line. I think who can... But I think that owes more to the beats. Don't you think the beat poets? Yes. I'll tell you the truth. The truth is John... Non sequiturs. I think beat poetry helped enable that idea of words being less literal.

55:15But John actually says he wrote that song because some egghead critic had written about how smart and how there's several layers working and he and he says now who knows if it's liverpool just teasing but he said that he wrote that song uh i am the walrus as a kind of a dare to see if anyone would take it seriously well one thing he was kind of aware

55:34Dana Carvey:that he was pushing when you when you think about the beatles this is a more a macro question but it's sort of like you got the first part you know like i'm a walrus you're like okay and sometimes i listen and i go okay i know where he's going but how did he come of a sitting in the english girl he goes all the way and this as good as the the main i don't know words what the main part is that is also yeah yeah and it's a little bit like she's leaving home again is i'm assume that lennon wrote the melody when he does the refrain we gave a vest of a or influenced it right yeah because it's it's hard you know you i i don't know because they did actually help each other a lot like because you know the famous story about hey jude is he wrote that song for instance for for yeah that shoulder line he wrote for julian lennon it was called hey jules and he says i'm changing the the movement you need is on your shoulder and john said you bloody won't your bloody won't change it you know and so they were helping each other that way so i think maybe john on um i'm the walrus might have been thinking almost predicting what paul would do because he goes like i am me and you are me and it's like but then all of a sudden sitting in an English card and it's like Paul would put the how do I say this?

56:48It's not twee in a bad way but it's what we love about McCartney about Martha My Dear is that it's a little more dainty you know where the other parts are almost heavy metal like you know I just wonder about that I wonder if they were finishing each other's thoughts at that point Let's talk about Across the Universe though I've been able to

57:06Dana Carvey:talk about that for all day I think that's my favorite. And Paul and Dana, you guys may know better than me, but that's John, right? That's all John? That's John 100%. And I believe, and I don't know the timing of it, but didn't he kind of play it for the other three in the Let It Be documentary? At one point, and they're all sitting there listening. So I wonder if he sort of went off and finished it himself. but I believe that's all John and it's John's one of his favorite lyrics. The thing too, where he hangs on, what do they call it? Like with a pedal bass where you play the same, you hang on the same note.

57:48He tends to do that. Paul goes up and down. John hangs on one note, right? And things move around him. Well, what they do is he moves, he moves notes inside. Like, so it's essentially the same chord all the way through, but then there's a melody like, like in Dear Prudence where it goes like ding, ding, ding, ding, but the bass is slightly moving, but it's the same ding, ding, ding, ding, Dear Prudence. And the guitar is playing that ding, ding, ding, ding, all the way through it. And it becomes, um, hypnotic because you're kind of, I mean, I'm sure psychedelics were involved, but they were tripping on that like sort of a Raga, you know, like create a repeating thing that makes you not remember where you are.

58:30And then it works, it works more hypnotic.

58:33Dana Carvey:The lyrics of Across the Universe always got me. Yeah. I feel like that's what it would be if you actually went across the universe. I mean, I know that sounds really corny. Good point. But that's one of those ones where if I listen to that on headphones by myself, I do get a little, I feel the coldness of space. And it's like, you know what I mean? Yeah, because just staying across the universe with that melody, it's profound, you know? And it's empty, too. It's a little bit. Cold. Tell me if I'm right. It's cold. It's not a warm production, right? Yeah. It's a stark production, yeah. And then there's a Phil Spector version where they added the kids' choir going like, ah.

59:17And I actually prefer the, there's a version that was on one of the anthologies where it's just pretty much straight. And you remember on the demo tape, he does, he wanted to get this little rhythm, like it's like a chicka, chicka, chicka, chicka underneath it. and so he started saying sugar plum fairy sugar plum fairy right and sugar plum fairy was kind of the uh the engine for him of what the rhythm of the song was going to be i mean these guys at that time were like allowed to do this they were allowed to just dream and you know they went to rishikesh to study with the maharishi and they ended up writing like 18 songs each paul and john and i think george too but and and a lot of the songs that came out later like jealous guy by john lennon was actually started in russia cash when they were studying with the maharishi you

1:00:01Dana Carvey:know and sexy sadie of course is actually about it i often you know just because of the let it be documentary and seeing paul one paul we we interviewed paul whoops and he goes i thought i was a bit bossy you know but i did point out to him i said you were so enthusiastically playing on everyone else's song. Like if it was John's song, oh, okay, let me help you. And so... Oh, yeah, yeah. I lost my train of thought. No, Sexy Sadie. Sexy Sadie. But aren't we glad he was bossy if he was bossy? I think he was a de facto producer, but this Paul can help me with that, perhaps. But he could sing all the harmony.

1:00:48Dana Carvey:He had a greater range. He could play all the instruments. So he's kind of an arranger. That's how I was thinking of Sexy Sadie because Lennon maybe wrote the chords on the guitar. It's utterly Lennon. But the opening piano riff, the slight echo on it, and it's so broad and wide and bizarre. And Paul's playing that. So I didn't know in that moment, does Paul kind of in terms of cadence or I'm not sure how he intersects. like obviously dear prudence we know at least at least until maybe Ringo plays the solo at the end that's a controversy currently but we know Paul is playing the bass that's what I wanted to tell Paul John Lennon loved you I don't care what you guys were only 29 John Lennon loved you because you can't write a song and have a guy come and go here's the bass line which I think is brilliant in dear prudence and the drumming and of course you'll sing the harmony so that's you discuss amongst yourself.

1:01:43Dana Carvey:What do you say, coffee? Well, I just want to say this about Paul and John. So I've been doing a lot of reading lately about the relationship between Paul and John. There's this great book called Paul and John, A Love Story in Song by Ian Leslie. And it really, really explores the, to an almost homoerotic level, about how intensely they cared about each other's opinion of each other. And they, even when they were fighting, they were fighting in a lover's quarrel kind of way. It was all quality control. That's the whole thing. Everything, you know, it was all argument so high about quality control like is is this going to be good enough to to have the beatles name on it you know i mean exactly and so so in the movie let it be you can sort of see in the get back version you can really see that paul at this point you know brian epstein has passed away their manager george martin isn't involved in this session so nobody's going to push the rock up the hill paul looks at john and says have you written songs oh yeah he goes i'm thinking about it you know i'm thinking about doing it and paul's like rubbing his eyes going we're doing this show because that was the thing that live show with all new material which is such a crazy thing to try and and um but he says you know i just want you to you know have a voice in this so he's so excited when uh they bring in i dig a pony and uh i've got a feeling you can see and two of us is a paul song but you can see john is feeling like it's about linda but it might be about him and John?

1:03:10You know, it's kind of about the, because they stare at each other when they're singing it. And you really get a feeling that what Paul, what we're watching that movie is Paul pushing everybody to the point where they're mad at him. Like George is like, stop pushing me. But he just wants the Beatles to have the Beatles again. And then within a year or two, of course they do Abbey Road, but within a year, he's up in his farm, John Paul's up in his farm in Scotland, crying his eyes out and not getting out of bed. And Linda says, you've got to do something. and now he's the guy who needs to be pushed and he writes maybe i'm amazed you know like it's like it's a beautiful to me that's a that's a movie right there i almost hope nobody makes it because

1:03:48Dana Carvey:i isn't there a part where george and paul were kind of fighting and because paul was you know and go like doodoloo you know whatever but then afterwards i think george they're they're kind of stop rehearsing and he's george is asking paul what do you think paul you know i think it was it was about uh here comes the sun or one of the abbey road you know so it's still in that moment and i i think i said this on your podcast but the only because i love to discuss the beatles especially john and paul's relationship there's no other band during that era that they ever could have been in where they were not sometimes not sure they were the quote best guy in the band right you know and there's no other band with the output of both of them they could have been they're absolutely the best guy in the band and so the miracle that they came together is almost divine or something yeah i mean think about while my guitar gently weeps you think of George Harris later and you go something and you go here comes the son if he was the hey guys wait up guy you know what I mean that's the third place yeah he would have mean the guy in any other band in the universe Miles the argument that I was going to say that they always make about George is that he obviously had it but he may have worked three times as hard to get it because he knew he couldn't just put any old thing up right you know he had to he had to write here comes the sun he had to write something and uh and you mentioned earlier dana that paul paul's baseline on something this is a guy who knows what he's playing on like he knows this is a hot session yeah like so you know the part where he goes something in the way she could hear paul go do do do do do do do yeah like he's like he's like let me play and he but he wants to play to make the song was he actually inventing what you call a counter melody then at that time he's playing bass in a way yeah that fits perfectly but that's a very skillful thing to do and not get in the way of the main melody but to he had an intuitive sense for that stuff but he also absorbed a lot of you know i know a lot about mccartney lately because i've been reading all these books but when he plays piano he grew up listening to it in his home yeah but when he plays piano as I've seen it.

1:06:10He really doesn't do much with his left hand, right? Isn't he kind of ironically for... Lady Madonna, he moves... Lady Madonna moves the left hand, but there's three styles of mccarthyism. But isn't it usually like single bass and then... And then the melody? You know what I'm saying? Yeah, Lennon especially does that on piano. So Lennon will move the right hand chords more than the left hand chords, the bass chords. The bass is the left hand. That's why it's so ironic that Paul would write so many what would be the left hand on a piano parts for the songs, you know what I mean? Yeah, no, that's a good way of looking at it.

1:06:49Well, the left hand is the bass hand, right? David, David, I feel like we're both, we're all ramrodding over here like, David, talk about the Beatles. David just, listen, he's more of a wings guy. I actually really like the Beatles, and I really like Paul McCartney Wings, but I'm sort of listening like an audience member because you all know more. Comedy royalty, Kate McKinnon returns as Queen Mortuana in Heads Will Roll, Air Apparent, the highly anticipated sequel to Audible's fan favorite original comedy series. She's flanked once more by co-star Emily Lynn and a new star-studded ensemble, including Richard Kind, Laurie Metcalf, Jimmy Fallon, Megan Mullaly, Sam Richardson, and Carrie coon, plus an extensive cast of comedy greats.

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1:10:57Dana Carvey:well well i have questions and uh you know that's mostly you know what i don't feel i don't i just fancy myself a fan of course but over time you're that's interesting i think we're all fans yeah um so no no it's true yeah i uh i i could like i just love the fact that there's so much there's always a new take on the beatles and there's always a new new bit of information you know here's my question so george harrison is he's singing the harmonies first of all blows my mind that they john and paul can sing harmonies and the the guy from the neighborhood can play guitar pretty well and they're doing this boy which is a staggeringly gorgeous song emotionally in every other way and george is singing perfect harmony now george is playing guitar parts for years on their songs and adding don't bother me are these songs that are kind of rudimentary compared to where he's going is that sort of a master's class because he's learning in real time that the john and Paul are going to this different place that you know other major chord bands aren't doing was I mean his leap forward and it really started for me with with um why my guitar gently weeps yeah and then of course the two songs that are in the top ten of all-time Beatles songs for the Beatle fans something and here comes the Sun so you think that he was in a master's class with these two geniuses but he was a genius lane and wait kind of how did george evolve into what he was it always there yeah well there's something that mike might appreciate because you know how um when when we were kids mike you know how peter and peter and i thought that we were the we were the guys who were writing comedy and you would be like wait up wait up guys you would go off and you go to the school you'd go to the schoolyard you'd go to the schoolyard or the park near our house and we'd find out we'd hear kids laughing and glow they're laughing at mike like what's what's that about and and i think if you now this is what we call an analogy because so george is george is not you know george is the hey wait up guy as mike was saying earlier and he goes but he also starts befriending bob dylan right like so he's going out and he's listening to the new album by the band and clapton yeah and those guys are accepting him uh you know as yeah as a as a beetle and he's just absorbing he's absorbing the beetles but he's also absorbing everyone around him and bringing it back in.

1:13:29And that's when he started bringing in the Indian music that he'd been listening to because it's like, here's what I'm finding out while you guys aren't letting me talk.

1:13:37Dana Carvey:Yes. What's the song that the Chemical Brothers sampled? Tomorrow Never Knows? Tomorrow Never Knows. Who wrote that, Paul? Or Dana? That was John. That was John. I think it was primarily John. I think that's his melody. I mean, it was a lot of tape loops. but there's a lot of I thought that was so I've always thought they were all discovering Stockhausen I always thought that was George the sitar element was George the mystical element yeah the drone there's like a tambora or something well if George is trying to play ketchup what's Ringo doing this whole time Ringo is just being a zone quiet genius he's the vibe Ringo is getting paid I'm just playing the drums he's getting paid by the hour he doesn't even get a piece of anything he's in love but watch him and get back though man get back oh look at that i love that all right well let's talk about ringo for a second like was he any good or oh my god was he so great i think he is but he's a drummer who listened to the song but hold up here's the other thing about so in in olden days of of comedy writing teams there'd be somebody called a soup spoon right which is uh there was a yiddish term but it came out to be soup spoon and that they didn't cut in carrots they didn't put in beef but they just stirred the pot yeah made sure that all the people were contributing you know what i mean yeah and i guess sally in dick van dyke show was the soup spoon okay sally rogers sally right but um i think he was the soup spoon i think he was the guy that that just kept it up kept it light and didn't let all the Liverpool attitudes have a fist fight.

1:15:23He's from Liverpool, but I mean, I think Liverpool people know how to not have other Liverpool people fight.

1:15:29Dana Carvey:I don't know where, I'll ask any of you this, where he stylistically, you know, if you look at She Loves You and he goes to the floor, Tom, he's not always traditional. He can go on a 16th high hat and he'll do splashes. But a lot of times you think a normal drummer would do a splash and he'll just stay with the tom and the snare. Or even in something, he's kind of just hitting the kick drum. And there's times, anyway, adapted to the songs and you can't imagine anyone else playing those songs. Best example that always comes to mind is Ticket to Ride. Any other drummer, if they hear, I think I'm going to be sad, they'd be like.

1:16:12But Ringo goes. and come together you know come together is like like he's like he's not playing straight time but he swings he swings and he never plays over the words I don't know if you pay attention to that next time you're listening Keith Moon would play Keith Moon would play as if he was the lead singer right Keith Moon would play anything that moved like he was falling off a cliff and trying to survive But he never understood why the drummer in the back. He never understood that. Right. Yeah. But luckily he was playing against the base, but luckily he was playing with a bass player who overdrove the base and a guitar player who just turned up past everybody.

1:16:56And Roger, who was like swinging the mic and screaming and a beautiful scream. But yeah, so that was a band that was built on loud, built on loud. But I want to stick with Ringo for a second. I just want to say that the thing I love about Ringo is you see it in get back. And when he's the song get back, Right.

1:17:11Dana Carvey:Yeah. Which is, we all know that's a beautiful moment where Paul's just playing the rhythm guitar on the bass and he's saying, I've got something. And then Ringo's first attempt at it is just playing like, and all of a sudden it's. And then you recognize the military shuffle that becomes like, oh, now it's get back. And that moment watching Ringo look out into space across the universe, if you will. and he's listening and he's listening that's something you don't get from some of these you know like you know fred armison has that character who does the drum technique yeah of all how to dominate how to dominate the jam that's the that's his catchphrases i will teach you how to dominate the jam now anyone who knows it's like you don't want to be dominating you want to be listening and playing that's the beautiful thing about ringo he was not dominating He was helping and he laid back when he needed to lay back.

1:18:08You know, a day in the life is almost hardly any drums in the day in the life, except like it's like, there's a bag of marbles being dropped on the kit. That's what, was that you? Yeah. It wasn't me. No. Some people describe it as falling down the stairs. Is that, I read the news today. Oh boy. And he goes to do, do, do, do. Yeah. That's the coolest. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. A little, a little, yeah. Like it's almost to say I'm Ringo. I'm still here, you know.

1:18:35Dana Carvey:Loose toms are underrated. You know, Ringo didn't always feel a need to go, you know, and he could. You heard the toms, right? It was always with the song. What do they call it? You're a drummer, Dana, right? A little bit. Pat Boone, Debbie Boone, right? You've heard that, right? Oh, yeah. That's a beat. Pat Boone, Debbie Boone. Canna Tuna, Canna Tuna, Canna Tuna, Canna Tuna. White, black, white, black, white. Pat Boone, Debbie Boone. And then Stuart Copeland has one for Sting, but I can't say it on most television shows. It must be X-rated. This is a podcast. Yeah. He wrote on his Toms. He wrote, I can say this.

1:19:12I mean, I'm sure there's no censorship here, but it was F off UC on his four Toms. So when he was mad at Sting, he'd hear like, boom, boom, boom, boom.

1:19:23Dana Carvey:I don't know. Stuart will verify that. They were at some event in Malibu, which I didn't go to. I think Kevin Neen told me that it was Ringo and Stuart Copeland together, hanging out talking. And I just thought – Two of the best. Yeah, because if you listen to Synchronicity 2, I guess, or something, it's just brilliant. I mean, those albums, The Police is just bright and shiny, and of course, Sting. Roxanne's still – So this is one of the things that we were talking before. I don't have the musicologist thing that you guys have more of, but I love a good vibe. You know what I mean? And the thing about the Beatles is, so no matter what I've done or will ever do in my life, I aspire to the pure excitement that is listening to the Beatles.

1:20:20And I think there's other things, too, that I've heard that give me pure excitement. Like London Calling gives me pure excitement. Yeah, I love it. Zeppelin. Boy About Town by The Jam. Jimi Hendrix, you know, on... Absolutely. There's one Jimi Hendrix that... Hey Joe, right? Hey Joe, yeah. That's what it's called, right? Because I often get the titles wrong. Yeah. Anyways, that song. Just the shuffle of...

1:20:58It's just like pure excitement. Yeah, yeah. I love that. Well, how about on Purple Haze? Purple Haze when there's that vibra slap. So it goes down, down, down, down. Yeah.

1:21:15Dana Carvey:No one ever made the guitar sound like that. I guess he had really heavy hands and he played it upside down. But how we got that sound. And big teeth. And big teeth. Yeah. But it's also those chords, those crazy chords that go up and down. Yeah, rhythm guitar player, too. Yeah. But, you know, we came up. Pure excitement. That's what I'm talking about. There are things that are just pure excitement. And Paul used to have a term called the pop shivers, you know, where you get like the. Yeah, yeah. You get a tingle. It's a tingle. Pop shiver. You get a tingle. When a chord changes, when a chord changes from one to another.

1:21:49And you're like, whoa.

1:21:50Dana Carvey:We had one of the ones that my wife and I had, we were just going to a movie, Secret Policeman's Other Ball. We weren't aware of Sting. We just saw a guy come out, really cool looking, the dyed blonde hair. He's just with his guitar and he sings and plays Roxanne. And we both went, holy shit. Yeah. Who the fuck is that? Yeah. So, yeah, Sting was quite a – and The Clash. I always think of The Clash or I don't know who else, The Ramones. because you at your formative years was sort of the beginning of punk. And I guess The Clash was your favorite band when you were like 15, 16. I mean, The Beatles are my favorite because they're whatever.

1:22:32Because they have too much. Then it's The Clash. You get realistic. Because there's just something that's – another thing with The Clash is they're cool. Do you know what I mean?

1:22:42Dana Carvey:Well, London Calling, whenever that comes on, I'm on XM radio, and that comes on, I never switch it. so that vibe of that is heavy London call I mean it's an army I don't know what the lyrics are about but it's it's not just a song it's a movement yeah and it's perfect for that time that's the way yeah Joe Strummer like London calling you know it's like it's in it's in it's like it's not casual yeah it's like a cry for it's in for that ring of the transient thing the ice age is coming the sun's moon so anyway we we unfortunately we could do this for two days straight but we kind of have to wrap it up any last words paul myers mike myers again let's let's let's take some time on we would love to do this as a regular thing because i think people will love it and i love it and i think that we could fill many more hours yeah more bands to delve into also led zeppelin Led Zeppelin.

1:23:47Led Zeppelin. Led Zeppelin. We can also talk about Wings specifically. That's a whole other conversation.

1:23:52Dana Carvey:Well, back to the A, just certain solo songs are brilliant. And of course, you know, we could break down just the song. People say I'm crazy, doing what I'm doing. That's just those lyrics of that song. It's just like... Can I say one stupid, like almost a plug for my book again. John Candy, which Beatle did John Candy work with? George. No? Yes. I just guessed. Was it Handley's Films? There's a video for the Wilbury Twist. There's a song by the Wilburys, Traveling Wilburys, called the Wilbury Twist. And John Candy, I think he was filming Brewster's Millions at the time. And they had him come by the studio and just do a little twist.

1:24:34Okay, people curious.

1:24:35Dana Carvey:Go on Amazon, under books. Paul Myers, John Candy, A Life in Comedy. download it and enjoy it and we'll do this again it was so much fun

1:24:51hey guys if you're loving this podcast which you are be sure to click follow on your favorite podcast app give us a review five star rating and maybe even share an episode that you've loved with a friend if you're watching this episode on YouTube please subscribe

1:25:05Dana Carvey:we're on video now Fly on the Wall is presented by Odyssey and executive produced by Danny Carvey and David Spade, Heather Santoro and Greg Holtzman, Maddie Sprung-Kaiser, and Leah Reese-Dennis of Odyssey. Our senior producer is Greg Holtzman and the show is produced and edited by Phil Sweet-Tech. Booking by Cultivated Entertainment. Special thanks to Patrick Fogarty, Evan Cox, Maura Curran, Melissa Wester, Hillary Schuff, Eric Donnelly, Colin Gaynor, Sean Cherry Kurt Courtney and Lauren Vieira reach out with us any questions to be asked and answered on the show you can email us at flyonthewall at odyssey.com that's a-u-d-a-c-y dot com